you have donald trump who takes and weaponize is the seats of government, the seats of power, and embarks on a campaign of political intimidation in order to secure outcomes that personally benefit him. that at the core is part of the stakes of our democracy that are before us today. once rule of law goes out the window, it's not something that is easy to get back. it's very much a part of the decision we have to make in the next few months. >> thank you for all your time tonight. that's all in on this tuesday night . night . tuesday night. good evening, alex. >> we have some new exclusive audio from the supreme court historical society that lauren windsor has given us and we'll

be playing that in the hour so stay tuned. will. >> like i said exclusive never before heard audio recordings of justice samuel alito speaking to an undercover progressive activist. that's what we have tonight. that is in addition to the bombshell reportings that were released poyesterday, and you'l definitely want to hear these recordings when we play them. if you've been wondering how those secret tapes were made in the very first place, how activists and judges on the highest court in this land, how they camehi to mingle behind closed doors, well, the answer to that begins almost ten years ago to this day, when the supreme court handed down a major decision. >> supporters of the hobby lobby cheered today's victory. the oklahoma family that owns the chain of 500 craft stores claimed that providing insurance coverage for some forms of contraceptives under obamacare would be the equivalent of paying for abortion. the court called the ruling

startling. >> the hobby lobby decision. the majority opinion was written by justice amsl alito, and it was one of the first signs that conservatives on this court were willing to go after reproductive freedoms no matter the consequence. now, in the wake of the dobbs decision ten years later hobby lobby seems like the canary in the coal mine in more ways than one. in novemberys 2022 "the new yor times" offered key reporting about how the hobby lobby decision came to be. for years before the court heard the case, conservative christians have been engaged in a campaign called operation higher court. that operation was to personally court and influence the supreme court'sth conservative justice. the effort was spearheaded by a man named reverend robert shank, who woulder recruit christian couples, who he called stealth

missionaries, to gain access to theto judges and to impress upo themes the importance of conservative christian values. here's how "the new york times" described one of their strategies. reverend schenk gave his stealth missionary close instruction. the justice were more likely to let their guard down at the supreme court historical society's annual dinners because they were sure they'd be properly vetted. see a justice, boldly approach, he told the couples. if given the opportunity bear witness to biblical truth but don't push it, he said. your presence alone at had historical society h events telegraphs a very important signal to the justices -- christians are concerned about the court and the issues that come before it. that strategy appears to have paid off. according to "the times" reporting some " of schenk's stt missionaries were able to build enough of a relationship with justice alito and his wife,

marketa anne, that they obtainea advanced notice of the court's hobby lobby decision before the camebb out. that breach, that unprecedented breach foreshadowed the leaked dobbs decision striking down roe eight yearswn later. and that specific strategy of using the supreme court's annual society historic dinners as a way tost gain access to supreme court justices, well, it turns out that, too, is velerant again just this week. it's a yearly event where wealthy donors give money to a non-profit dedicated to preserving the court's history, and in ouexchange for their mon, those donors get to rub shoulders with some of the justice and their spouses. as it turns out, conservatives weren't the only ones in on this tidy little arrangement. last week progressive activist lauren winder who happens to be a member of the historic society bought a ticket for the event. when she got in, she pretended

to be a conservative donor, attending the event with her husband. ms. windsor approached some of the supreme court justices and secretly recorded her conversations with them. nbc news has not heard the full tape of what was recorded so we cannot say for full certain if edits were made if any were actually made. tonight we have some brand new audio from that event to play for you. and when you hear these new tapes, you will hear something familiar to what was on the tapes released yesterday. a justice, in this case justice alito, who is aggrieved and frustrated, who is nakedly partisan and totally unconcerned by appearing to be all those things in front of a total stranger. remember what we heard yesterday. >> as a catholic and as someone who, like, really cherishes my faith, i just don't -- i don't know that we can negotiate with the left in the way that, like,

needs to happen for the polarization to end. i think that it'sti a matter of like, winning. >> i think you're probably right. on one side or the other -- one side or the other is going to win.oi i don't know. i mean, there can be a way of working, a way of living together peacefully, but difficult, you know, because there are differences on fundamental things that really can't be compromised. they really can't be compromised, so it's not like you're going tomi split the difference. >> and that's what i'm saying. it's just, i think that the solution really is, like, winning the moral argument. like people in the country who believe in god have got to keep fighting for that to return our country tot a place of godline.

>> i agree with you. i agree with you. >> remember at this closed door cocktail party ms. winder was also able to get justice alito's wife, martha anne, to justify flying the two flags in front of their homes. these recordings this week would seem to suggest mrs. alito has no shame about what she be been doing here, in fact quite the opposite. she made clear these flags she flieshe are explicitly her formf resistance and response. >> you know what i want?at i want a sacred heart of jesus flag because i have to look across the lagoon at the pride flag next month. >> exactly. >> and he's like oh, please don't put up a flag, and i said i won't do it because i'm

deferring to you. but when you're free of this nonsense, i'm putting it up. i made a flag in my head, this is how i satisfy myself. i made a flag, it's white and it's yellow and orange flames aroundd it, and in the middle the word vergonia. vergonia in italian means shame. >> just to be clear justice alito hasr publicly stated his wife did not fly these flags to associate herself with the stop the steal movement or any other group, but it seems quite clear from that clip haze wife very much sees this flags as a form of political expression and a response to what she believes are liberal attacks. perhaps most concerning in these recordings, though, is martha-ann alito's five year plan for revenge. >> there's a five year

defamation statute of limitations. >> i don't know what you mean by them. >> the media. >> martha-ann alito says she has a plan to get back at the media by suing for defamation and she thinks she'll have an opportunity to do that in the next five years when she's free of all this nonsense? is she telling all of us here about justice alit opg's retirement plans? and how concerned should we be a supreme court justice's spouse is talking about the american media with open contempt? tonight we have brand new audio from that same event where justice alito himself thinks what he thinks about the fourth estate, the press. the other voice you'll hear on this tape is an associate of lauren windsor's who was also as this event. >> i justis wanted to ask you w do you think the supreme court

is so -- is being so attacked and being soso targeted by the media? >> well, i think it's a simple reason. theyle don't like our decisions and they don't like how they anticipate we may decide some cases that areom coming up. that's the beginning and the end of it, and there are -- there are groupst, that are very well-funded by ideological groups that haveic spearheaded these attacks. that's what it is. >> like who? >> propublica. propublica, gets a lot of -- you know, gets a lot of money. and they have spent a fortune investigating clarence thomas, for example. but they -- you know, they look for any little thing they can find, and they try to make something out of it. >> nbc news reached out for comment from both samuel alito

and his wife martha-ann alito but we've not heard back. lauren, thank you for being here. i knowk r you've had a busy weo far. we're so appreciative of all that you've said thus far and all that you have toou share wi us tonight. let me first start with the new sound your organization or your colleague has given us. there are two parts of this new -- this new tape that strike me as concerning. the first is justice samuel alito saying that the media is attacking him because the media doesn't like how they anticipate the court has decided -- decided cases and may decide upcoming cases. was that a window into what may be coming down the pike in the next two weeks? how did you interpret that? >>te i mean i definitely interpreted it as being a harbinger for bad thing tuesday come. >> did you get the sense when he

was talking about the media and thenou specifically citing propublica, for example, on their extensive investigative reporting about clarence thomas alito is reading -- that these stories are very much beingor shared behind closed dos at the supreme court? i mean his media awareness seemed to be relatively high. >> oh, it's very high. and he already had a sense of grievance when i first spoke with him in 2023, but it was much more pronounced this year in the two conversations that both ali and i had with him. >> i k we talk about the context here? the fact is you and your colleague both had conversations with the alitos. for those of us who haven't been to the supreme court historical society events, is this what happens at, them? we now have two bombshell reports about conversations, advocacy

campaigns happening between attendees andpp justices on the supreme court. >> it's interesting. i actually read that initial report in the "the new york times" about reverend schenk, and that's part of what played into my going in the first place, but i didn't read that report and think i should become a member now. it really was incited by the propublica reporting on clarence thomas. andngcl it's interesting that justice alito wants to rail about theha money taken by propublica for investigating, you know, public servants why clarence thomas is not disclosing millions of dollars in gifts from gop donors, and i have no idea what propublica's finances are, but as someone who is an independent journalist, i would imagine that the money that clarence thomas has taken probably rivals the budget of propublica in any given year. >> yeah, i mean it's such a good point. what did you hear in alito's

sort of explanation for that? did you hear -- it almost seems as if there's certainly no contrition, but there's notce en ant acknowledgement that there was any wrongdoing on the part of clarence thomas in accepting potentially millions of dollars in unspecified gifts from conservativepe donors. >> i mean, you know, it's not verbatim but it's almost verbatim. making something out of any little thing -- i don't understand any little thing to be, you know, buying my mother's house or paying for my nephew's tuition or getting a free rv loan. and these are all things that he's accepted from gop donors. so it would be a much different story if this was just about vacations he was taking with harlan crow and his wife and family.

most people would write it off as, oh, it was a trip. most people would not consider traveling with friends or associates as being something that's that big of a deal, but that's not actually what we're talkingot about with clarence thomas, is it? >> no, it's other order of magnitude we've seen and it's been going on for years. you just a random member of the historical society is able to get even within shoulder rubbing distance of a justice and then grow him into conversation about some of the most incendiary topics of this country, which is the c partisan divide. how did it actually unfold when you were in the room with the justice? >> so it should be stated that in the guidance for the event thate historical society says you broach topics gnat are before the court, it may be grounds for you to be kicked out. so there was definitely a deliberative process in how do i

approach someone in that -- you know, not only are judges supposed to be really the height of discretion, the height of, you know, judgments, right, this is the highest court in the land. this ishe aou supreme court jus, so i definitely went into this assuming i was not going to get anything newsworthy. in 2023 i did not get anything newsworthy, but i thought, you know, throughout the year that transpired, the media scrutiny on justice alito has intensified so much, and his grievance level is probably so much more peaked that unlike clarence thomas who did not show up to this dinner but has been reported to have shown up to it many times, and he didn't show up in 2023, by the way, that justice alito would probably attend anyway even though he was undergoing this very intense media glare, and sure enough he was there.

and i think it was just something that -- i can't say what was in his mind, so i don't know if in 2023 he had the same level of grievance and, you know, it changed over the coursg of the year. >> sure. >> there's a couple options there. you know, did it changeorally was it always there and he just felt more comfortable? >> was it hard to get him to talk? >> at the very end of this conversation he says are you a lawyer? i think he's talking toou ali, yourki colleague. i'mle not sure if it's you or h, but it's not as if you offered any biographical information other than you had a husband who's in the room. and i wondered how you got that piece of information. did you go up to him and start talking tort him? >> so the reason why i brought up my husband is that in 2023 i came with a male friend, so the

context of it was we had a conversation after dinner in 2023 my male friend was with me, he was not with me in 2024, so when i saw justice alito solo it was one-on-one, it was, hi there, my husband really wants to let you know that we're rooting for you, you know, that you really have all the grit. and the reason why i said you have all the grit if it doesn't stick out tot people, this is because donald trump had tweeted something out about how there should be more justices like samuel alito with the grit that samuel alito has. and so i felt like it was kind of a flag, if you will to alito, that it was -- >> a safe space for him. >> a safe space, yes.

i was trying to signal to him very coyly without saying trump because itit goes back to the w to broach a conversation with someone who has the highest level of discretion, you can't talk about partisanis politics. if i had walked up to him and started t talking about joe bid or donald trump, he would have shutdown. so talking about polarization was really a -- a way into the conversation that wasn't aggressive but also t indicativ of what he's really trying to get at, which is he acting on bias? and ie really do believe that e american peopleo deserve to kn is the supreme court so compromised that we do not really have impartiality, the bedrock of our judicial system. i think hearing it from his mouth that he cannot be

impartial,nn that there are this that cannot be compromised. that needs to be fuel to tell us, look, what is it that can be compromised? >> you brought us into an environment and these tapes are regulatory and coming at a time of crisis for this court. it is -- we're not done having this conversation. thank you for bringing some of that conversation to our air. we're really appreciative. thanks for spending some time with me tonight, lauren windsor. >> thank you, alex. coming up this hour we have new details about trump's presentencing meeting with his probationth officer. turns out he is being treated differently, just maybeea not i the way he'd like you to believe. but first hunterto biden joined donald trump in becoming a convicted felon facing possible jail time. does that mean the system is now unrigged? we'll get into n the republican response coming up next. get int response coming up next.

president biden's son, hunter biden was found guilty today on three federal gun charges. you may think the maga conspiracy about president biden rigging the justice system, maybe you thought that's going to collapse. it did not. >> today is the first step for delivering accountability for the biden crime family. >> you've been saying two tier system of justice, and here is the president's son being convicted. >> it doesn't. every case is different, and clearly the evidence is overwhelming here. >> do you think the department of justice is still weaponized against conservatives even though we still see this verdict here today? >> absolutely. when they tell there are school moms they're domestic terrorists because they don't like what's being taught in their classrooms and others things we can go into it but -- >> we can go into it, but we

won't. a trump's campaign statement said hunter biden's trial nothing but a distraction of the real crimes of the biden crime family. republican james comer said the work will not be done until the department of justice investigates everyone involved in the biden's corrupt influence peddling schemes. >> this conviction is apparently a distraction from the real crimes of it biden crime family. is that strategy going to work? >> today's conviction was awkward. it was awkward for the talk this was all rigged, the biden justice department is rigged only against republicans, but we live in a world in which the reality and the facts have a hard time catching up with the spin. and you can see how deeply invested the republicans are

about talking about the biden crime family. so it's not a shock they're going to continue to repeat those talking points over and over again, but i do think the contrast and reaction to the conviction of donald trump and the conviction of hunter biden has been very, very telling here. and, again, it's always difficult to know how it's going to play out. we may see this at the debate. i know the biden folks think this is going to come up at the debate. again, democrats have been making this point and the media have been making the point that, you know, there are a number of democrats who are facing indictments under -- under the biden justice department, not just the president's own son by a democratic senator, senator menendez, henry quer down in

texas. if the system is so rigged, how do they explain that and the answer is they don't feel the need to explain at all, they're just going to go with the spin. >> when you talk about a reaction this was the statement from the president of the united states after his son is convicted of felonies. as i said last week i am the president but i'm also a dad. squill and i love our son and we're so proud of the man he is today. so many families who have had loved ones battle adekz understand the feeling of pride seeing someone you love come out the other side and be so strong and resilient in recovery. as i also said last week i'll respect the outcome of this case and continue to respect the judicial process as hunter continues to appeal. jill and i will always lead our family with our love and support. nothing will change that. that a strong statement, a tough statement for a father to make, and i feel that undercuts whatever the republican argument is here about biden rigging the system among the voters that

will actually matter this next election. >> well, there are three things there. number one, the conviction of hunter biden shows the system is not rigged. it also shows this is the way the rule of law looks. and president biden has also said -- you know, has said on the record he'll not use his pardon power if -- to free his son if hunter biden gets a prison sentence. and some people were skeptical about that, but i don't think there's any reason to doubt his word at this point. and again, this creates a really significant difference between the tantrum that donald trump and his supporters have thrown and the acceptance of the rule of law and the decision of a jury that was presented with all this evidence. the point you're making is who is this for right? almost everything republicans say is for the audience of one is for donald trump. this is what the base wants to hear, but that is not the group

of voters who will be deciding this election. >> and i think embedded in biden's statement is a call to empathy, right, for those who have fallen, for people who have addiction and are trying to make it through, you know, a dark, dark period versus trump who is all grievance all the time. and, you know, i think we think -- we don't know a lot about where this country is headed, but really appealing to people's sense of forgiveness and empathy doesn't seem like a political strategy that has an expiration date. i don't know, am i being too soft here? >> no. and again, it's a very interesting contrast. if trump's super power and his shamelessness, his refusal to ever take responsibility or apologize, joe biden's super power and his empathy. and again, republicans aren't going to give him any credit for it, but i do think there are a lot of americans who are going to say this a tragic situations.

there are questions about the hunter biden judgment and his behavior, but also what you're seeing from joe biden is this is what a father, a father who has lost his other son, how they would react to something like that. and i think there will be a sliver of the electorate, a crucial sliver going to look at that and say we understand that seems human to us, that seems like something we can identify with and admire as opposed to the constant conspiracy theories and the victim card playing and the really vicious attacks on the criminal justice system and the jury system coming from donald trump. >> yeah, it's a real choice ahead, and this is going to be very, very indicative of who we are as a country. charlie sykes, thank you again for your time, my friend. it's great to see you. >> thank you. still to come this evening we have some new reporting about what appears to be a coordinated effort to broadcast disinformation about this fall's election on your local newscast.

plus, when it comes to trump's criminal conviction, republican need a reality check. we have one. that's next. d a reality check. we have one. that's next.

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conflicted judge who was corrupt. >> rigged, rigged, rigged, rigged, rigged, rigged. that's been donald trump's refrain during his criminal trial in new york. the entire system is rigged against him. and yet the system really seems to be bending in his favor lately as we saw yesterday at his probation hearing. trump's interview lasted less than half an hour, and trump was allowed to attend the meeting over zoom from his mar-a-lago beach club in florida with his lawyer seated by his side. just for perspective here according to a statement released by multiple public defender groups in new york city, public defenders are deprived of joining their clients for these meetings. the options of joining these meetings virtually by zoom is typically not extended to the people we represent either. joining me now is duncan levine. he's now a criminal defense attorney. duncan, thanks for joining me to

make sense of this madness here. first the circumstances of this probation interview. they sound relatively easy, maybe even cushy, but donald trump says everything is rigged against him. who's right? >> this is something that is so routine, it typically takes hours. and to the extent there's been things that have been different for him, they've only been different in his favor. most defendants have to come there in person. it is a drab office. these things take hours. there are courts probation interviewed that took half an hour. this is the opportunity to ask on sentencing that don't come out in the trial. this is defendant so well vetted, but for most defendants the judge doesn't have a sense who they are as a person, what their family situation is, what their immigration status is. are they using drugs, who are they covorting with? so a lot of people know this about donald trump. you could say, well, half an hour maybe all you need, but the fact is this it is them doing

their due diligence. to the extent it's all zoom, the extent it's rigged or different, it's only been in his favor. >> the only piece of this he likes bringing up is the presence in this case on the d.a.'s side of a man named matthew colangelo. they've used him to be the missing link between joe biden, the puppeteer of the justice department and alvin bragg who sought criminal charges against donald trump. this is how trump talked about michael. >> colangelo is a radical left from the doj who was put into the state working for litigious james and was then put into the district attorney's office to run the trial against trump. >> we'll take issue with the put into passive in that statement, but you have gone between the

doj and the d.a.'s office so you know what it's like i guess to be a plant. first of all, is that a normal thing that happens, and how in line with reality is this argument? >> yeah, and this is something that's also being ginned up on capitol hill a lot. and in a letter just today the department of justice said this was conspiratorial speculation. this is an attempt to undermine law enforcement and to sow distrust of the public and law enforcement function. first off manhattan d.a.'s office and doj work together every single time. there are joint task forces on terrorism, on hate crimes. there are joint task forces that looks banks file of suspicious activity reports, and joint cases such as standard charter and ing and barclays. there are cases every day

deconflicted between the department of justice. on the manhattan d.a.'s office they don't arrest the same person or step on other's toes. robert, the most famous manhattan d.a. who served for 35 years from 1975 to 2010 prior to becoming elected as the manhattan d.a. was the united states attorney for the southern district of new york. >> so he was an obama plant. >> exactly. a stooge for the administration. >> this is all coming to a head on july 11th when there is the sentencing hearing for trump. and i guess i wonder what your expectation for that is and whether there's anything to be done around the cries of foul play and a rigged system that are inevitably going to come up no matter what trump is sentenced to. >> it's just such a hard decision for judge merchan, and you wouldn't wish it on your

worst enemy. that being said it's a tough decision for him to make. the prosecution is definitely going to be asking for jail time. the it was is going to be asking for a sentence of the conditional discharge thing. there's going to be outcry on both sides no matter what it is. this is something a very difficult decision and i don't know there's any way through the political thicket of it other than to say this is judge who's really been around the block and he's going to be taking this seriously and fairly, and i think you'll see a sentence free of some of those political consideration, and it may be down the middle, but i think both sides will be able to make like a rorschach test, if you will, and they'll be able to argue around it, whatever it is. >> you're not giving me the inside dope on what you think it would be. i would never put you on the spot for that, duncan. but for all the cry we've seen thus far it seems it's only

going to increase heading up to july 11th. thank you for being here. it's helping us all through this. coming up trump appointee aileen cannon tosses out trump's appointment in the classified documents case, but first some orwellian messaging being broadcast from your local news station. that's next. broadcast from yours station. that's next.

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responsibility -- eastern with you communities. >> mid-michigan communities. >> we're extremely proud of the quality that cbs 4 news produces. >> we are concerned about a troubling trend of irresponsible one-sided news stories plaguing our country. do you remember that nightmare fuel from 2018? the media organization sinclair broadcast group, which owns nearly 200 local tv news outlets had dozens of their local anchors across the country all read the same orwellian script about bias in the media. >> today sinclair broadcast group was caught again with

dozens of local anchors again reading the same script. the newsletter's public notice and popular information first brought attention to the copycat newscasts which featured a script you might say has a very clear conservative agenda. >> "the wall street journal" calling into question the mental fitness of president joe biden. >> "the wall street journal" is out with reporting calling into question the mental fitness of president joe biden. >> as national correspondent matt galka tells us, the issue could be an election decider. >> the election could be an election decider. >> now, the story these dozens of local news outlets ran with was based on a widely panned piece in "the wall street journal" last week claiming that behind closed doors president biden was showing signs of mental slippage. the only people quoted on the record in that piece to support that recording were republican officials including former speaker of the house kevin mccarthy, who is not at all known for being the most

reliable anything. meanwhile, several democrats including senator chris coons have come out publicly to say they gave quotes to "the wall street journal" for that piece and the paper chose not to include them. coons says he told the journal biden is someone who's sharp, engaged, and leads the conversation. now, aside from the clear partisan edge to all this, recent polling from gallop shows americans have very low trust of national media outlets. just 32% of the country trust the national media outlets, but that is not true when it comes to local news. pew research polling from earlier this year showed that 71% of americans trust their local news outlets, which is what makes what sinclair is doing here so nefarious. maybe your neighbor doesn't trust "the wall street journal" or cable news, but they must trust the station that gives them the weather, and that is the real issue. >> that issue could be -- could

be an election decider. be an elr

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in an order that otherwise denied yet another attempt by the defense the end the prosecution of donald trump by the handling over his classified documents, judge aileen cannon has given mr. trump a partial win. judge cannon agreed to strike one incident from special counsel jack smith's indictment. the paragraph describing after he left the presidency trump allegedly showed a classified map of a foreign country to the representative of a political action committee while saying that an ongoing military

operation in that country was not going well. trump allegedly admitted at the time he shouldn't be showing the map to someone without security clearance and told the person not to-look too closely at it. while the incident illustrates how allegedly cav clear trump was with classified information, prosecutors never charged trump with crimes involving sharing classified information, and now the judge has struck it from the indictment. joining me now is bradley moss, a national security attorney who routine lee represents federal officials and members of the military in matters pertaining to classified documents. bradley, how big of a deal is it for prosecutors that this map incident has been struck from the indictment? >> it's certainly not a critical factor. all this means is it's not sitting in what is otherwise known as a speaking indictment. it is still information that prosecutors can bring out at trial and almost certainly will litigate to ensure they can bring it out as sort of the

evidence of a prior bad act strictly in the context of mr. trump's the intent, his motive, his desire, his willingness to conceal this information, that he knew he had these records, he knew he had classified documents. he knew he wasn't authorized to have them, and he was retaining them at mar-a-lago. this was a very minor victory for mr. trump, otherwise the motion was dismissed -- i'm sorry, denied by judge cannon. the issue, of course, is that it took so long. this could have been resolved weeks ago. it never need today have taken this long. >> if it's not a significant win for trump is it indicative, though, of a broader tension between the special counsel's office and this judge? because throughout this case, and it seems like it's ratcheted up in recent months, there's maybe not a volley because it seems like it's coming from one side. the judge does not seem happy with jack smith or his team. >> yes, certainly the tensions continue to boil, and they've reached the point that in a hearing just a few weeks ago it

got to prosecutors were so upset and frustrated with their attempts to try to explain to judge cannon their view on the case law and how certain legal precedents applied, that the judge had to basically counsel them to calm down. none of us where there, i don't know how badly that got out of hand. but it's never a good sign if you're a lawyer if the judge is telling you to calm down. let's be honest where this is going. judge cannon for whatever reason has chosen to take a slow and methodical approach here. she hasn't granted donald trump anything of substance, but because of how she's dragged it out and how the classified portions of in particular are taking forever, this is guaranteed it never see the light of day, will never get to trial before people go to voting booth in november. >> that seems a guarantee. there's an open question whether

we'll see the trial period but that's going to depend on politics. trump filed another motion today. this one says the fbi destroyed exculpatory evidence but not describing what the classified material was in proximity to nonclassified material and trump argued he didn't pack the boxes, he didn't know what was in there. how substantive is this? does it matter? >> i think it's a delay tactic at best they might get an evidentiary hearing. they want to have an evidentiary hearing to probe into huthis was conducted, how the boxes were organized this way, whether or not there's something to their allegations of bias and improperly storage. on the merits, it's garbage. it has nothing to do with terms of spoilation of evidence or obstruction of evidence, and it doesn't absolve trump of the idea he willfully retained the documents. he knew he had them in 2022 when he turned stuff over to the

archives and they told him, hey, there's classified documents in this stuff. he knew he had them over the course of the next year talking to his lawyers and they told him to turn them over. he knew it when the fbi told him we keep finding stuff in the stuff you're turning over. it will in the way judge cannon handles things drag it out just a little bit more. >> a grand jury indictment came down on june 8, 2023. anyone's guess whether we get to the second anniversary. bradley moss, thank you so much for your time tonight. >> have a good night. that is our show for this evening. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is coming up next. this case was about the illegal choices the defendant made while in the throes of addiction, his choice to lie on a government form when he bought a gun and the choice to then possess that gun. no one in this country is above the law. everyone must be accountable for their actions, even