response. it could be anger. >> who do you think has more to gain or lose from the debate in two weeks? >> i think that this is joe biden's to win. he should win it. if he does, it really discounts a lot of the arguments about him being fit. whereas, donald trump, i think, is just going to be a train wreck. if he is not a train wreck, though, then he's done himself some good, which i -- it will put things in a different perspective, i think, going toward the next debate in july. >> trump finally hitting the campaign trail the next couple of days. president biden returns from europe and largely will shift to debate prep at camp david. it is a big moment indeed. political analyst susan del percio, thank you for joining us this morning. thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" with us on this thursday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. biden flew to italy to attend the annual g7 summit. he went to france last week. now, he's office to italy. biden is like your friend who is posting pics from europe all

summer. hey, do you work? what do you do? usually when an 81-year-old does that much traveling through europe, it's on a viking river cruise. [ laughter ] good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is thursday, june 13th. we're going to bring you the very latest from the g7 summit in italy. president biden is there meeting with world leaders and also talking support for ukraine. that's a top priority there. meanwhile, there's a lot happening today on capitol hill. donald trump will be in washington to meet with lawmakers from both chambers, setting up his first face-to-face with senate minority leader mitch mcconnell in more than three years. it comes a day after a partisan vote in the house, holding merrick garland in contempt of congress. we're going to dig into all of that straight ahead. along with joe, willie, and me, we have the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief

at politico, jonathan lemire. former treasury official and economic analyst steve rattner is with us. staff writer at "the atlantic," mark leibovich, is with us, as well. >> willie, last night, jonathan lemire, i'm sure, was very nervous, not just about the red sox starting the game down four -- nothing against the phillies -- but also recognizing that in the second half in dallas, the earth was flat for a while. as kyrie and the dallas mavericks just put on an absolutely torrential comeback. outscoring the celtics at one point 22-2. >> yeah. i mean, the celtics were running away with this thing, up 21 points early in the fourth quarter. cruising, it looked like, on their way to a 3-0 lead, insurmountable in the nba finals. jonathan lemire, you can always find a dark spot in the bright skies as a boston fan. >> oh, i will. >> one point on a kyrie irving jumper before holding on.

the celtics did win, ultimately, are up 3-0. they can win the franchise's record 18th nba title tomorrow night. >> these are the kind of games that, i will say, this edition of the celtics team in recent years usually loses. last night they didn't. credit to them. they survived an early onslaught. dallas came out blazing at the start. celtics were down 15. tight game at the half. celtics had a tremendous third quarter, opened the big lead, which they nearly blew, but they didn't. it helped luka doncic fouled out. taking a lot of criticism for his lack of defense and complaints to the referees. not his best game. kyrie was very good, to be sure. the celtics was a balanced attack. though porzingis is out, didn't play, and likely we won't see him again these finals, both jayson tatum and jaylen brown finished strong. this is a tougher celtics team than we've seen. a big road win. one win away.

tomorrow night in dallas, won't be easy. if they fall there, game five monday at home. i'm not celebrating yet. i can't celebrate yet, but one win. >> joe, john and i talked about this, this is an underrated celtics team. won 64 regular season games. 15-2 in the playoffs. in the neighborhood of the 1986 celtics team in terms of win. the '08 team, the last title they had in boston. this is a really, really -- >> they're undefeated on the road these playoffs, which is remarkable. >> wow. speaking of boston sports, jonathan lemire, the red sox came back from a 4-0 deficit to beat the best team in baseball, the phillies. of course, preparing for this weekend's showdown. i can't believe it. we ought to talk very briefly about this. mid-june, the yankees and red sox still haven't played each other. that ends this weekend. >> good win for the sox last night. they had been blanked and were lifeless the night before against the phillies. could have thrown in the towel, but they didn't.

the offense came out strong in the second part of the game. nice win, 8-4. willie, red sox/yankees. >> i know. >> they changed the schedule a year or two ago, so they play fewer times. used to be 19 but now it is 12 or 13. father's day weekend, and they've not played yet. this is a chance to chip away at your 13 or so game lead. maybe we can close it to 12 or 11. >> might have turned it to 12 last night. the yankees are playing incredibly well. getting great pitching from places they didn't expect it, joe. gerrit cole not back yet. the lineup is unbelievable. aaron judge is mashing. soto is playing well despite the injury to the -- >> it's 14. >> excuse me. i was trying to give you more credit than you deserve. 14 games up on the red sox. >> yeah. >> i will say, despite the season the yankees are having, the orioles are quietly hanging right with them. they're 2.5 games back, also having a great season in baltimore. >> well, i've got to say, this yankees team is the best yankees

team, i think, probably since the '27 yankees. >> expectations. >> if they don't win the world series in four games, you have to look -- >> since the last one. >> -- at a complete failure for the yankees. >> mercy rule. >> speaking of, i don't know why we're continuing to play. seriously -- >> just call it. >> -- we have no chance. let's call it right now. >> yeah. >> we're the little engine that could. let me tell you something, we're rolling back down the hill right now. >> on the last caboose. >> into the ravine. >> getting serious for a secon. we lost a dear friend yesterday. a dear friend to this show, to me, to nbc, and really to washington. if you don't believe that, look at some of the responses, mika, that howard fineman and his passing yesterday got from across washington. just a wonderful, lovely man. >> yeah, he was one of the most

respected reporters inside the washington beltway. he passed away yesterday. in a social media post from his own account, fineman's wife, amy, announced his passing from pancreatic cancer. writer in part, quote, "i am heartbroken to share my brilliant and extraordinary husband passed away last night surrounded by those he loved the most, his family." after starting his career covering kentucky state politics, fineman arrived at "newsweek" in 1980. there, he quickly built his well-earned reputation by giving readers an unvarnished look at the inner workings of capitol hill and the powerful players making the decisions affecting the lives of everyday americans. that included the eight different presidents he covered in some capacity, including george w. bush, who spoke to fineman back in november of 2001 for his first extensive

interview after the 9/11 attacks. in 2010, fineman left "newsweek" to become the senior politics editor and later the global editorial director at the huffing ton post. he also joined the msnbc family as an analyst at that time, where he became a familiar face on "morning joe" for viewers here for more than a decade. howard fineman was 75 years old. we are so sorry. >> i read an article yesterday calling him a titan of washington journalism. howard was a national editor and reported out of 49 of the 50 states. his time in kentucky, i think, may have been his most valuable because, as howard and i spoke, he understood politics in a way that many that were born in the northeast and went to school in the northeast and worked in the

northeast may not have understood. just keen insights. i think, most importantly, as i've been talking to him over the past couple years, emailing and texting, just a wonderful, lovely man. he knew about what was in front of him and was at peace with it. but, again, just a great friend. we're going to have chris matthews and al franken on tomorrow to talk about the legacy and the life of howard fineman. mark leibovich, you knew howard and worked with him. certainly, i know, like me, you had to look up to him because, man, he was a titan at "newsweek" and beyond. >> like a lot of people in this business, i mean, who you look up to, you know them first as a byline. i remember when i was first starting out in journalism, "newsweek" was at the peak of

its powers. i used to love reading "newsweek" for its political stuff. i think it was the 1992 cycle, i was in my 20s. i was up in new hampshire for the first time for a presidential primary, and i met howard fineman, this giant who i had been reading for many, many years. he was then at "newsweek," and i was somewhat in awe. he could not have been nicer. he was helpful in showing me around, introducing me to people. loved to tell stories. he kind of got the joke in that kind of wise guy, political reporter way. i always appreciated seeing someone who was so -- you know, he loved the game, he loved journalism, but also loved what was inherit to what we do. especially when we'd run into each other on the road. i'll miss that. we'll all miss reading howard, also. >> so much. >> yeah. well, we're very grateful to

have known him. a good man. our thoughts and deepest prayers to his family. to our top story now, president biden is in italy this morning for the first day of the g7 summit. moments ago, he gathered with other leaders from the group of seven nations for this year's so-called family photo. the president will now attend multiple working sessions throughout today. afterwards, he'll meet with ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy and sign a ten-year security agreement between the u.s. and ukraine. joining us now is msnbc white house correspondent monica alba, live in bari, italy, with more. what can you tell us? >> reporter: mika, this is going to be a consequential meeting with these leaders where there's so much on the agenda. perhaps at the very top of the list, how to continue helping ukraine in its defense against russian aggression as that war

stretches on for more than two years. we do expect that by the end of the next couple of days, there will be some kind of agreement between the g7 leaders on how to help ukraine get more military aid in the access of funding from seized russian assets that have been frozen. now, there was a little bit of debate over exactly how to do that and whether that would be presented to ukraine in the form of a loan that will be paid over some years based on the interest of those frozen assets. we expect those kinds of details. national security adviser jake sullivan does expect an outcome on that in the coming hours. but there is, of course, also the larger dynamic right now of the shifting winds in european politics. when you look at the different leaders who greeted president biden this morning, many of them, including president biden himself, may not be there at the next g7 summit in 2025. there have been many, of course,

questions about elections in the uk, in france, in germany, where many of these leaders have fairly low approval ratings. then, of course, president biden is facing re-election in november. that is the overall backdrop to these conversations and the larger looming question of, even if there are things the leaders agree to and try to set into motion, will some of those things will undone or incomplete because of whatever happens a near from now? then we expect the leaders to also continue to discuss the potential cease-fire deal that president biden and certainly other leaders internationally have been pushing for hamas and israel to accept, end the war in gaza. we expect there will be discussion of that in addition to countering china and, specifically, trying to issue russian sanctions from the u.s. against some china-based companies that are fueling the russian war machine in ukraine. those are some of the expected

thorny issues and topics that the president will be discussing with leaders. tomorrow, he is expected to meet with pope francis who is coming to the g7 in a historic manner to discuss the issue of artificial intelligence, some of the advantages of the technology and also some of the dangers that it presents. a jam-packed couple of days here for the president in southern italy. willie. >> nbc's monica alba in bari, italy, for us this morning. monica, thanks so much. john, the president running hot. he is in normandy for almost a week. comes back for a few days. going back over to italy. what does he hope to take away from this g7? what are the objectives that he may leave here in three days having achieved? >> first of all, not a bad place for a summit. >> not bad. >> looks pretty nice. >> not bad. >> this is the second trip to europe in a week. ukraine is at the forefront and will meet with president zelenskyy later today, holding a joint press conference.

if the will take a few questions, the first time taking questions from reporters since the conviction of his son. there will probably be domestic matters that get asked about there. it is about this deal here, assets to support ukraine. it's to keep aid open no matter what happens with the elections. in eu, the far right making real gains recently. of course, the election in the united states in november looms. there's hope commitments can be made to ensure aid will go to ukraine even if donald trump, a ukraine skeptic, were to return to office. i also think this is the president's last major summit before the election, and i think there's going to be a note of reassurance as he tries to -- his fellow leaders of democracy, to say, look, you can count on the united states. we're not going to go anywhere. but we know there is rampant anxiety among those men and women that we're seeing in the family photo about what a donald trump return would mean, how he has threatened alliances before,

how he has said that he wants a more isolationist foreign policy. this is president biden trying to say to them, look, i can't guarantee the future, but we are americans. if i win again, we can do this. even if i don't, there will be a way to keep america involved. it is a real sort of anxiety-filled summit right now there in italy. >> you know, steve rattner, we're going to be talking about this a little later, but it is fascinating this g7 summit takes place against the backdrop of the strongest u.s. economy relative to the rest of the world than there's been in decades. we had a report yesterday that the world economy is doing okay, thanks in large part because of the unexpected strength of the u.s. economy. as the world bank said, the impressive u.s. economy is powering the world. impressive resilience.

growth buoyant. in the teeth of the fiercest monetary tightening in four decades. strongest dollar in almost half a century. that's the backdrop of joe biden there, about how we're powering the world right now with our strong economy. also, though, as you look at those pictures, i'm curious your thought. you have, of course, the chancellor of germany, who just suffered a blow with the far-right in germany doing so well in the eu elections. a blow to his reputation, his party's reputation, of course. same with macron especially. but fascinating, the one person who did well is actually maloni

and her party. she was perceived to be an enemy of the eu, a far-right extremist because of her party's roots with mussolini, but she's ended up being really pragmatic on the world stage. talk about that. talk about the economy. general feeling about where europe is right now. >> first, on the maloni point, she is the only member of the g7 who has a higher arrival rating than joe biden, but she's still at 41%. when you look across the eu, as you said, you see leader after leader, country after country, where you're looking at arrival ratings for leaders at 24%, 28%, in the 30s. ritchie sunak has a snap election coming in july. he could be wiped out and could be one of the largest majorities for labor in a long time. i think it does relate to a considerable extent to the whole growth picture. we've grown over 9% in total, our economy, since the pandemic started. canada is at 5 something. everybody in europe is at 1, 2,

3%. the elections last weekend shouldn't have been a total surprise in the sense that europe is really, really struggling economically, including and indeed, especially, germany, which has, of course, been the powerhouse of europe for so many decades. between the impact of the ukraine war and the fact that germany is a major exporter to china and all of that is under pressure, it is a really, really difficult time for germany. europe as a whole, a mix of the effect of the war, which is something but not the only thing, but, frankly, it is simply having economies that have just not performed well over a long period of time. they don't have the flexibility of our economy. they don't have the productivity. look what's going on in a.i., for example, at the moment. we dominate a.i. there's one company in france and a couple in the uk that are kind of in the mix on a.i. everybody else in europe is just not present, and that is potentially a huge driver of future growth. there's simply a set of

economies that have not delivered for their citizens and, therefore, the citizens are taking to the ballot box in a way that is very, very scary to all the rest of us. >> i've got to say, also, there is a reality, and there was an ft article about this a couple months ago, there is a new reality that approval ratings don't line up with victories or losses at polls as much as they used to. of course, the greatest example of that would be macron, who was sitting in the low 30s to the mid 30s in approval ratings in france before he had his election against le pen. he ended up with about 58%. >> there's that. >> there is angst across the western world, and it is driving approval ratings of all leaders down. >> for sure. let's go to capitol hill now. former president trump will be in washington today where he is set to meet with republican lawmakers from both sides of the hill. a senior trump campaign official tells nbc news the meetings will

be focused on policy, zooming in on social security, taxes, border security, and a, quote, america first foreign policy. while trump's visit is being presented as a positive development by some in senate leadership, senator susan collins, lisa murkowski, and mitt romney will not be attending the meeting. all three claimed they have conflicting plans. senate minority leader mitch mcconnell will attend, giving him his first face-to-face with trump since 2020. take a listen to what the minority leader said yesterday when asked if he would confront the former president. >> you know, i said three years ago, right after the capitol was attacked, that i would support our nominee regardless of who it was, including him. i've said earlier this year i support him.

he's been earned the nomination by the voters all across the country. of course, i'll be at the meeting tomorrow. >> that'll be an interesting dynamic, mark leibovich, to see mcconnell there with donald trump. donald trump going to visit the office buildings, will not be at the capitol. obviously, january 6th hangs heavy over this visit even though the president was not technically at the capitol that day. he held the rally that drove the people there. so what do you expect today? what is the dynamic at play, other than all of these republicans who have fallen in line, save for the small handful who have conflicting schedules, perhaps a root canal for mitt romney? >> yeah, i mean, first of all, it is notable that mcconnell kept referring to trump as "him." i don't think he mentioned his name once. he acknowledged the capitol was attacked. i also think with the dynamic this these things, especially when you hear coming in that the former president's aides say they expect the meetings to be about policy. yeah, that's always true when

trump's meetings are involved. >> wonk. >> really in the weeds on this. but, i mean, look, i think this will be, i assume, when he is with the other republicans, a complete show of sycophancy, which is what the party has become. i don't know how you can ignore -- i assume they will -- but i don't know how you ignore the fact this is all taking place in what was, you know, one of the great places of disgrace of his presidency, if not the, and that's where he left washington. i mean, when he took off from the white house 3 1/2 years ago, i mean, the capitol had just been sieged. you know, he came -- it happened the same day that joe biden was inaugurated, the same place that he, you know, was calling for an attack on. look, the synergy here, the sort of symmetry of it all happening will be notable.

i expect the same thing, though, a falling in line, a kissing of the ring over however long the meeting goes on for. they won't be talking about policy. >> joining us now, capitol hill correspondent ali vitali who will be covering the meetings. what should we expect today? what is congress preparing for? >> to be a fly on the wall when mitch mcconnell walks into that meeting with the former president, willie. you guys are so right to point out the awkwardness of this. as someone who is in the capitol almost every single day, to ask senator mcconnell any kind of question around trump is to know that you're going to get some kind of very tense answer that doesn't really seem to say the thing that we know is at the heart of this, which is what mcconnell said in the aftermath of january 6th when he said, and i'm quoting, that trump was practically and morally responsible for provoking what happened on january 6th. i don't think we can stress enough here the ways in which the insurrection still hangs over the capitol every single day. it doesn't just take the former president coming up there to

remind of the roll he played in it or the way it happened. it is the reason we see high levels of vitriol in the hallways of congress. when democrats point to the other side, it's the thing they continue to come back to and why it is so hard to find bipartisanship. i know it was this way before, but the role of the insurrection is still so palpable just in the way congress functions or, rather, doesn't these days. i don't think we can underscore that enough. on the policy piece of this, i think we're all right to sort of shrug our shoulders when we hear lawmakers say that the focus of the former president's meeting is going to be about policy. to the extent that it will be, i've talked to several lawmakers, including the speaker, who say we want to be prepared if he wins again. they fell flat footed the last time. taxes, of course, is going to be huge. >> yeah, it is striking, too, the last time we were thinking about donald trump on january 6th, 2021, around the capitol

anyway, many of the people who will be chasing him through the halls and trying to sit at his feet on this day were condemning him on the floor of the senate that day. let's talk about the contempt vote in the house. 216-207 was the vote to hold the attorney general of the united states, merrick garland, in contempt because he will not release the audio tapes of the sit-down interview president biden held with the special counsel. what more can you tell us about how this unfolded? >> won't release the tapes, willie, but, remember, the committees that want the tapes also already have the transcripts. they're still pushing for them. what the speaker told us in the minutes after this vote last night, which passed along party lines with only one republican voting against it, the speaker said to me earlier in the day and then to reporters after, the house did its job today. he felt it was important to put this message out there. of course, we know the department of justice, backed up by the biden administration, is exerting executive privilege over this audio. the doj lambasted the house

republicans last night for turning something that they say is an important congressional authority into something that's partisan. but i thought it was notable for the one republican, congressman dave joyce of ohio who voted against this, in a statement he explained why, and i'll read it to you in part. he says that as a former prosecutor himself, he can't in good conscious support a resolution that would further politicize our judicial system to score political points. the american people except congress to work for them, solve policy problems, and show good governance. enough is enough. as soon as they assumed gavel pour, they said oversight of the biden administration, the weaponization of government would be a key focal point. clearly, that is the priority of the way republicans want to do governance in the house. >> mark leibovich, let's, of course, remember that there are some republicans in the house, including jim jordan, who defied their own subpoenas in terms of the january 6th committee. it is rank ypocrisy here.

let's talk about the politics of this. trump campaign would probably love the biden audio to come out so they could put it in a campaign ad or something like that. but to a bigger picture, it seems to be yet the latest example of how the republicans in the senate and particularly the house exist simply to do donald trump's bidding. >> yeah. i mean, 100%. this is for the video. like you said, they have the transcript. yeah, this is material for a trump campaign ad to further underscore the fact that the sitting president is 81 years old. if there is video to sort of make that point, they'll try to avail themselves of it. again, this is not -- first of all, even in the oversight realm, and this is nominally oversight, but i guess it is certainly not legislation, not passing bills -- this is kind of weak. i mean, obviously, the impeachments haven't gotten anywhere as far as president biden goes.

any kind of -- you know, the jim comer investigations have gone nowhere. this is just the latest attempt on that continuum. >> you know, it's so weak and ma pathetic. mark is so right. the comer committee humiliating themselves, trying to create something around the, quote, biden crime family, trying to prove that joe biden did something wrong as it pertains to hunter. they just kept humiliating themselves so much that other republicans kept telling comer and the committee, stop it. you're embarrassing us. so this is just another example of this. they did it with mayorkas. they keep doing this and keep humiliating themselves. there'sbetter way to run a house, to be part of a conservative resistance to a president. i'm surprised the house just keeps, like, stubbing their big toe. >> it is a bumbling effort to

take over the narrative and lie, and they keep doing it. they keep thinking that americans are so stupid. in this case, by the way, americans have eyes. people have seen what has happened there. it's painful to vitali, that's thing happening on capitol hill. we had the vote on contraception, and now ivf. what's going on? >> we're watching democrats now. this is the second thing they've done in as many weeks to spotlight the issue of reproductive health care. this is all in the same month, a few weeks from now, where we will see them mark the two-year anniversary of the roe precedent being overturned in the dobbs decision by the supreme court. last week, it was trying to protect contraception access. this week, democrats are trying to shore up protections to ivf. we're watching republicans try to play catchup here. democrats would argue that the republican bill that i think was just on our screen from katie britt and senator ted cruz, who

is in an election year and certainly a lot of the legislation he is sponsoring tells the story, but how democrats view the republican version of the bill, it doesn't go far enough and doesn't do enough, if states put in restrictions, to make sure that families have sufficient access to care. this bill will probably go the way of the contraception bill, though it could garner more republican votes than that one did. again, these are largely messaging bills that are meant to put on paper the way that republicans vote, not on abortion directly, but when it comes to things that are ancillary to reproductive health care. i know the debate, of course, after roe and after dobbs was squarely on access to abortion care, but we have seen the ways the dominos have fallen across the country, various patches of restrictions, and even take it back to a few months ago when republicans, including nikki haley, told me, to her, embryos through ivf were babies, which

is what was in place until legislation was made to knee negate that view. >> where are we going? >> mark leibovich, this was an 80/20 issue in congress. you don't want to be on the wrong side of an 80/20 issue. the problem with ivf for republicans is there are so many people across america who consider themselves to be pro life, who have chosen life and gotten life into their family, a baby into their family, because of ivf. this collides with what the southern baptist convention did yesterday in deciding that they were going to take a stand against ivf, which really tells you just what an extreme turn my church has taken over the past generation. up to 1980, they were pro choice. then, as i say here all the

time, because paul weyrich and other republican operatives, right-wing operatives decided they needed to beat the southern baptist democratic president, they decided to make abortion an issue. not just a political issue but a religious issue. jerry falwell decided in 1980, 1,980 years approximately after the birth of jesus christ, that, suddenly, abortion would be the central issue for many christians. so here we are now. ivf being denied by the southern baptists and also by republicans. i mean, you look, republicans will vote this down. let me tell you something. >> so stupid. >> it may be a, quote, symbolic vote, but if i were running against a republican, i'd talk about this every single day. it shows just how extreme this party has gotten. >> but also how powerless they are for any kind of common sense

political solution to prevail here. as you mentioned, abortion is, as we've seen in some of these elections, some of these polls, it's basically an 80/20 issue, maybe a 70/30 issue as far as, you know, where voters are on abortion rights. republicans who know, you know, that this is not a winning issue for them -- i mean, donald trump knows this as well as anyone -- and, yet, not only can they not do anything about it, but because they have to listen to these elements of the party, suddenly, the conversation moves even farther to the extreme and it becomes about ivf. it becomes about contraception, stuff that's even, you know, farther to the 90/10 issues, basically. again, i mean, if common sense were leading this here, they would have some kind of responsible messaging around this. instead, this is where it goes. we've seen this over and over again on a number of issues with republicans. >> yeah. republicans use birth control. republicans use ivf.

that's men and women. republicans use abortion health care, the women they love and republican women. they get dncs, the health they need when they're having a problematic pregnancy. this is all a problem for republicans who blindly follow donald trump's lead on this. "the atlantic's" mark leibovich, thank you very much. nbc's ali vitali, thank you, as well. still ahead on "morning joe," what the white house is saying about a potential commutation for hunter biden after his conviction this week. plus, the federal reserve keeps key interest rates unchanged. steve rattner will be back to help us break down what it all means for consumers. >> and also just the continuing flood of news about how powerful the united states economy is. >> yup. >> and how it is powering the world right now. >> we're back in 90 seconds. >> what a beautiful shot of new york city.

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>> june is definitely my favorite month right now. >> i love june. >> one of my daughters was born in june. >> fantastic. >> mm-hmm. the federal reserve yesterday kept its key interest rate unchanged and signalled that just one cut is -- >> you know, i may have my first grandchild possibly born in june. >> let's just -- >> we'll see. >> we'll wait. >> okay. >> expected before the end of the year. but we're excited. that forecast is down from the previous projection of three cuts as inflation remains above the target level. meanwhile, as we mentioned, the world bank has upgraded its outlook for the global economy and said the impressive u.s. economy is powering the world. their latest outlook estimates the global economy will expand 2.6%, that's up from a predicted 2.4%. according to the world bank's chief economist, the u.s. economy is, in particular,

showing impressive resilience. growth remained buoyant in the teeth of the fiercest monetary tightening in decades. the u.s. economy is one of the reasons the world bank believes the global economy will have upside potential the next two years. the deputy chief economist called the u.s. economic growth exceptional. steve rattner, you noted on social media, quote, "since the end of 2019, america's economy has grown by about 8% in real terms. meanwhile, the euro area has expanded by only 3%. japan, a piddling 1%. britain, not at all. america is the only pig economy that is back to its pre-pandemic growth trend. safe to say, fair to say, there are still some people who are suffering the impact. they really feel inflation.

young people can't buy homes. there are sectors seeing struggle for americans in terms of their financial security. overall, the u.s. economy is headed in the right direction. is that fair to say? >> yeah, mika. what you went through in your intro there is exactly right. the u.s. economy is, by any measure, certainly among the major economies, the strongest economy in the world in terms of growth, in terms of job creation, in terms of even incomes after inflation for average americans, including innovation industries, as i talked about before. the tech industry is booming because of a.i. and some other things. also, let's remember a couple things to note. first of all, we had a really good cpi released yesterday. the cpi didn't go up at all the last month. one of the best months we've had in quite a while. that actually led the fed to be more optimistic about interest rate cuts. there is a 70% probability

according to the market we'll get our first interest rate cut in september, which would be good for the economy and good for the president. that'd obviously be right up in the run up to the election. you do see signs here of increasing feeling of positivity toward the economy in various consumer surveys. consumer sentiment surveys have turned positive. there are things like grocery prices. grocery prices have been down in grocery stores for four months in a row. food prices are down year-over-year. yes, there was a huge amount of inflation relative to anything people of most ages had ever seen before, but it has come down very, very dramatically and is getting close to the 2% target. what people also don't appreciate, for example, is over the past year, the average worker has done better after inflation in terms of wage increases. i'll say it again, over the past year, the average american's purchasing power has gone up. not necessarily a huge amount but something. this is a message that needs to

get out there about the fact that we're actually doing okay. yes, there is an issue about first-time home buyers with mortgage rates still so high. plenty of things to worry about. the deficit and the debt, which joe and i talked about for so many years. but, but we are the -- we are the strongman of the world from an economic point of view, no doubt about it. >> as you point out, steve, inflation has been the stubborn sore thumb in an otherwise booming economy, post-pandemic economy. it's still there. there is a reason major retailers like walmart, costco, even mcdonald's are cutting prices to get people back into their stores, because it's been too expense i. people looking for alternatives. when you talk about the pre-pandemic economy, yes, it is down, but still higher than anyone wants it to be. you said 2% is the target. how far off does that look? >> i don't want to get too wonky here. this is "morning joe," not cnbc. >> go for it, man. >> there are a lot of ways to measure inflation. the way the fed measures

inflation, which is not the cpi, it is another index, we're around the 2.8% range, something like that, relative to the 2%. we are quite close to the 2. in the economic projections the fed released yesterday, they basically said, we're on a glide path to 2. this is also a surprisingly good development. there are many of us who felt there was a severe risk of a recession as we tighten the screws to get inflation down closer to the 2s. it hasn't been required. we were wrong. we have a couple thousand jobs a month. economy is growing, definitely positive. we seem to have achieved -- don't want to declare total victory just yet -- but all indications point to us having a soft landing. we've gotten inflation down. interest rates can start to come back. the economy will continue to grow. >> yeah. by the way -- go ahead, steve. >> i was just going to add one thing. i think you do have to give

credit to the president on this to a considerable degree. because a lot of the policies he passed, things like the inflation reduction act, on climate, things like build back better on infrastructure, have put a lot of money into the economy. the chips act, you've got tens of billions of dollars of investment coming from semiconductor economies outside of the u.s. and inside the u.s. all of that is contributing to the fact that we are doing so well, which are pro-growth policies out of the white house. >> and i've got to say, as steve said, the u.s. economy is strong. i'll say it all the time. the long-range concern is what steve and i have been talking about for a decade, what i've been talking about for 25, 30 years now in public life. that is the increasing u.s. debt. we have got to get republicans and democrats together and have a goal of getting that debt down below the size of the u.s.

economy. instead of having a debt that's higher than what our gdp is every year. for the record, you can get as wonky as you want, steve, on "morning joe." we have a few post-grad watchers here. it is not spongebob squarepants. they can follow you. >> we love spongebob. >> we do. i'm a patrick star fan. >> yeah. >> so, jonathan lemire, the white house, the biden campaign, tell me your reporting. i'm getting a sense they're feeling a little bit better about the economy. as far as americans' attitude of the economy catching up to actually how well the numbers are that are reported every month. you have, of course, consumer confidence that's going up at the same time. we had a poll this past week that showed joe biden picking up 10, maybe 10, 15% on donald trump on who is better for managing the economy. we used to see a massive gap.

in this poll over the past week, seemed to be four, five percentage points. certainly tightening that, as well. so is the white house feeling better? do they think time is on their side, that americans are going to keep feeling better about the economy as we get toward te the election? >> first, the poll showing biden with more credit, closing the gap on trump, biden campaign aides texting that around to all reporters. they want people aware of that, the changing sentiment. their bet all along has been, they've been showing the fundamentals of the economy have been good, improving, and americans would start to feel better about it right about now, the summer/fall of 2024. there has been anxiety that up until recently, we haven't seen that yet. there was a disconnect between how well the economy was doing versus how americans were feeling about it. there's still worry among democrats, how it'll do. they're hoping the debate, two

weeks from today, will allow biden to make a case for the economy. in the months ahead, they hope they can do the same. an interest rate cut would be welcomed on pennsylvania avenue and in wilmington, let's be clear. but there is the hope. they know there are so many issues out there that dragged down this president, but they feel like more elections than not are decided on the economy. the bet is the narrative will turn just in time to help the president. >> "morning joe" economic analyst steve rattner, as always, thank you so much for coming on this morning. >> thank you, steve. greatly appreciate it. coming up on "morning joe," richard engel joins us with a live report from ukraine as russia launches a new attack. president biden aims to shore up more aid for the war-torn country. "morning joe" will be right back. pneumonia vaccine. so am i. because i'm at risk for pneumococcal pneumonia.

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her uncle's unhappy. i'm sensing an underlying issue. it's t-mobile. it started when we tried to get him under a new plan. but they they unexpectedly unraveled their “price lock” guarantee. which has made him, a bit... unruly. you called yourself the “un-carrier”.

you sing about “price lock” on those commercials. “the price lock, the price lock...” so, if you could change the price, change the name! it's not a lock, i know a lock. so how can we undo the damage? we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that's uncalled for. president biden at this moment is taking part in the g7 in italy. later today, he'll meet with volodymyr zelenskyy to sign a ten-year security agreement between the united states and ukraine that he hopes will outlast even his presidency. this is the third g7 summit to be held since vladimir putin launched that full-scale invasion of ukraine in february of 2022. yesterday, russian missiles slammed an apartment block in the central part of ukraine, killing at least nine people, injuring almost 30 others. president zelenskyy said his nation must work with its

partners to strengthen air defenses specifically to prevent that kind of an attack. joining us now from eastern ukraine is chief foreign correspondent richard engel. richard, give us a little backdrop, if you would, of what's happening on the ground there in ukraine as president zelenskyy prepares to meet with president biden today in italy. we lost his audio there. clearly, we'll get back to richard when we have him back in a second. john, obviously, this is a big part of this visit for president biden, as you said. he wants to sign this ten year security agreement, whether he wins or loses in the fall, would outlast even his presidency. as you said a moment ago, perhaps give some comfort to the world leaders, that even if donald trump wins, that support of ukraine still will be there from the united states. >> yeah, we're seeing this on

the domestic and foreign policy front. efforts to trump proof, if you will, biden accomplishments, trying to lock in what he's done both at home and commitments overseas. that includes, particularly, ukraine, where donald trump repeatedly suggested he could end the war in 24 hours. he would insist that ukraine take the terms, frozen battlefield now, allowing russia to keep its gains. there's anxiety among the other g7 leaders, willie, as to what the future holds. if trump were to come to office, it certainly would be disruptive, but president biden is trying to allay some of the fears. >> i think we have richard engel's mic back. take it away. >> reporter: you do have it back. i was saying, i'm in izyum, eastern ukraine. this is an area that has been hard hit by russian forces. there were mass graves in the forests not far from here that we saw them being excavated. mass graves that were left as russian troops were forced to

withdraw from here. we are seeing some improvements in the overall security situation across eastern ukraine. commanders here tell us it's because some of the american weapons are starting to alive. -- arrive. they were arriving after months of delay in congress. also, authorizations, ukrainians are also now able to fire, in limited cases, weapon systems, into russian territory. they said that gave a big advantage. instead of just being on the attack, russia has to defend its radar stations, air bases inside russian territory. they want to see more of that continuing. and going back to what you were just talking about, it's all about trump-proofing gains in this country. that's what people here are most concerned about. in five months, you could have a new administration. you could have a president trump

come in and undo this relationship between ukraine and the west, ukraine and the united states. it is something they are deeply concerned about. that's why it seems like president biden wants to sign this long-term agreement, a ten-year agreement between the united states and ukraine, but it is an agreement that a future president could undo. what ukraine really wants is they want nato membership, but, at this stage, it doesn't seem like it is in the cards. >> we'll add a note here. four russian warships sailed into havana, cuba, yesterday, an additional show of force to the west. richard engel reporting to us from ukraine. thank you, as always. guys? >> thank you, richard. joining us now, former reporter for "the wall street journal," matthew brzezinski joins us. >> thank you so much for being with us. let's start by first of all talking about ukraine strikes inside russia. how costly is that to russia? >> well, the ukrainians are

targeting russia's air defense systems and its missile batteries. they've been quite effective in doing this. and the essential point here is that russia doesn't have many of these, equivalent of patriot missile systems. ukraine has knocked out several in the past two weeks since getting authorization to strike into russia. ukraine is also wreaking absolute havoc in crimea. they are making the russian position in crimea almost untenable. they are hitting their supply lines. they have hit three airfields. the black sea fleet has essentially been withdrawn, so there's actually some very good news on the ukrainian front. unfortunately, there's also a bit of bad news. and i suppose you'll ask -- >> matthew, yeah, let's talk about the bad news for them. because they are -- those strikes, as you've told me

offline, really having an impact in crimea and also inside russia. but you also say, right now, there is a real manpower problem. i'm particularly interested in what your insights on training pilots for f16s and how they're sort of standing in a queue behind paying customers and others who can wait. talk about that if you will. >> all right. well, to begin with, ukraine needs to mobilize at least a couple hundred thousand soldiers in the next year. remember, russia has a 3-1 population advantage. and russia is paying its recruits the equivalent of 3.5 times the national wage to join the army and fight in ukraine. put that in perspective. it's as if the u.s. army was doing a recruiting drive and offering $200,000 a year

salaries. there would be a lot ofive poli putin. people going there aren't that motivated. ukraiian sol vediers are extremy motivated, but they've been on the front line for years now. these guys are exhausted. they're getting these awful, like, "dear john" letters from their wives who have fled to poland and now are saying they met somebody in poland and they're going to get married in poland. these poor guys are getting divorced while sitting in a trench, and it is absolutely heartbreaking. now, president zelenskyy has made some unpopular decisions. he's lowered the draft age from 27 to 25. unfortunately, he's probably going to have to keep lowering it. ukraine is beginning to have a bit of a draft dodger problem, unfortunately. the longer this war drags out, the less people are willing to

fight. coming back to your point on, you know, we can't do very much to help ukraine with manpower. the french proposal to send nato trainers into ukraine i think is a dumb idea. the russians will target them. you'll have a bunch of dead frenchmen, then the french media will be escalating. we are dragging our feet, unfortunately. the ukrainians have received f16s from us but they deent have don't have the pilots to fly them. it takes six months. they're standing in a line, waiting for the arizona air national guard guys to get trained. really, that's not -- you know, the arizona national guard is not a pressing issue, but time is of the essence for the ukrainians. i think it would behoove the air

force to fast track ukrainian pilots. no point in having 60 f16s empty with on a dozen pilots trained to fly them. >> matthew, finally, what should the biden administration do? what should congress do right now that it is not doing to help the ukrainians? >> i think we need to start sending them more and more sophisticated weapons. to its credit, the biden administration, i think, two days ago, said they're going to shift a patriot missile system. that is being used right now to defend u.s. troops in poland, to ukraine. germans have done the same. this is the most expensive piece of hardware we've given the ukrainians. one of these systems, all told, costs $1.2 billion. that's with a "b." which is why when, in the past two weeks, three or four of

these systems have been knocked out in russia, this is extremely expenive for the russians. it's creating giant air gaps in their defenses, as well. i would give the ukrainians more missiles, longer and longer-range missiles, and absolutely more air defenses. but i would stay away from any kind of european talk about boots on the ground in ukraine. >> you're right. all right. >> matthew, great to have you on. i don't interview matthew because he is family. i'm shook by the flashes of my uncle and my dad in all his mannerisms and looks. but it is great to have you. >> there is a reason. >> great to have you on. >> thank you, mika. >> matthew brzezinski. >> good to see you. i'll call you later. take care. former republican house speaker and board member of the fox corporation, paul ryan, appeared on fox news earlier this week. and, drum roll please,

criticized donald trump and calling him unfit for office. >> it's going to be a very, very close race. i think they're terrible choices we're being presented with. that's just the fate of -- that's what the primary voters selected, and i regret the fact that's where we are. >> all right. i know a lot of these folks who also shared your same concerns about donald trump, that sort of same all right, we're rallying around donald trump. you had said, though, that would not be the case with you. you said he is a populist and an authoritarianism narcissist. character is too important to me, and it is a job that requires the kind of character he just doesn't have. that's pretty strong. >> yeah, that's the way i feel. i agree with that. i don't support biden either. his policies are terrible. i hate the fact that i feel like i have a right as a republican. i voted for him in 2016, hoping he would be a different person in office. i do think character is a really important issue. if you put yourself above the constitution, as he has done -- >> but what happened?

what turned you on him? >> he is not fit for office. >> was it the january 6th thin? >> that's a part of it. it is a contribution of factors. i think it really is character at the end of the day. the fact if you're willing to put yourself above the constitution, an oath you swear when you take office, federal office, whether it is president or member of congress, you wear an oath to the constitution, and if you're willing to put it below yourself, it makes you unfit. >> let's bring in donny deutsch, amanda carpenter of protect democracy, and barbara mcquade. she's the author of an extraordinary important book every american should read if they want to know what's going on right now. "attack from within, how disinformation is sabotaging america." by the way, it makes a wonderful father's day gift.

willie, i've known paul for a long time. he worked for a group of us when i first got to washington. i love the guy. i do. he is a wonderful man. i'm so glad he is speaking out. he's on the fox board or one of the boards. he's in a position of authority over there. that's not something a lot of people would do. you know, to speak out like that. i appreciate that. i will say, the thing i don't understand is understanding that this guy is an authoritarianism, understanding the dangers that he presents, and then saying, well, i can't stand joe biden either. i'm going to vote for -- i hate his policies. i'll just write in a vote. well, if you feel like democracy is on the line, if you feel there is an authoritarianism in waiting, what is so offensive about voting for a man who pro

presided over the strongest economy in the world, that the world bank said is fueling the world's economy. the dow is at 40,000. we've never been stronger economically relative to the rest of the world probably since 1945. our military relative to the rest of the world has never been stronger than it is today either. i just -- i am grateful that republicans like paul ryan are not voting for donald trump. actually proving they believe what they've been saying their whole life. that will be enough to defeat donald trump. i just remain -- i just wonder how you can say he is an authoritarianism, a threat to american democracy, he doesn't have the character to be president, but i'm not going to vote for the one guy that can keep him out of office. >> yeah, there's even among donald trump's critics within the party, within the conservative movement, there is a yes but, equivocating in ways

that joe biden is equally bad in his own right. >> yeah. >> that criticism from paul ryan certainly not the first time he's criticized donald trump, was relatively mild. it was substantive. i didn't think he was out there throwing bombs. i think some of the points were obvious to most people who watch politics. >> yeah. >> for that, trump's supporting members of congress, of the house, one called paul ryan a piece of garbage for the comments you heard there. and said he is not a real conservative if he doesn't support donald trump. >> just the opposite. >> conservatives are whiners? >> just the opposite, willie. paul ryan, one of the most conservative guys i worked with in congress. >> 100%. >> yup. >> here was our big difference. he was a tax cuts, i think, at all costs guy, and i was about balancing the digit, bringing

down the national debt. we talked about this. we were both conservatives. we were sort of at different wings. we were both economic conservatives. we were just focused on two different things. nobody that worked with paul would ever say he wasn't a conservative. yet, anybody that saw donald trump while he was president, raising the national debt more over his four years than any president in u.s. history. >> yeah, it is laughable. amanda carpenter, people who are actually real conservatives now because the window has shifted so much under donald trump. and, as we were talking about in the last hour, donald trump will be up on capitol hill today. he will be followed through the halls by all those members of congress who want to be seen with him, who want to kiss the ring, who want to take a picture with him for their campaign ads, all of that, who call themselves conservatives and, yet, they're just following a man, not really even an ideology, a theory of economics or politics or

anything else. >> you know, i wish in these interviews that paul ryan does he could get to a place to actually talk about why he isn't the house speaker anymore. it is good he says donald trump is unfit for office, and he has been saying this numerous times over the years in various interviews. notable he said it on fox. also notable that interview was confined to the 4:00 p.m. hour. i don't think paul ryan would be welcomed to be saying those words in the primetime hours where the majority of fox news listeners are really reached. you know, what is frustrating about this is ryan and other republicans that take this position, i think they're expecting people to read between the lines way too much. i think they tell themselves, if i say he's unfit but i can't vote for biden, and, somehow, i'm saying the words i think donald trump is an authoritarianism, that i think he is dangerous, and then if i say i don't like joe biden's policies, other people are still expected to give me credit and do the work there. i'm sorry, that is not enough.

ryan should talk about, there is a reason i'm not the speaker of the house anymore. my views are being pushed out of the party. we are not a big tent party right now because donald trump expects republicans in any position of power, whether you're the house speaker, a senate republican, to act as his legal and political shield. that is why donald trump is going to the hill today. he can say, his campaign aides can say they'll talk about his legislative agenda. we already see what that looks like with the endless negotiations to nowhere that have been led by house republicans into the biden family, into merrick garland. this is where this is going. this is how he wants the party to act as his shield. that's the reason paul ryan isn't there anymore. also, it's good that there are other senate republicans who won't take that meeting, but they're saying, oh, it's a scheduling conflict. come out and say, i am not going to meet with someone who is practically and morally responsible, in the words of

mitch mcconnell, for sending a mob to the capitol and stopping the peaceful transfer of power? we need to start saying it very plainly, very clearly, in ways that are unmistakable. because there is a faction of republicans who are not going to go along with this. they're not successful, obviously, in stopping trump from becoming the republican nominee once again for the third presidential election in a row. but they need to be vocal and make it known that they are there, and that is the only way we're going to grow that republican resistance that will be responsible for having any chance of making the party responsible again. >> mike, amanda just teed up where i wanted to go with you. paul ryan has been a consistent critic of donald trump for years now. he did again this week. mitch mcconnell was a consistent critic of trump for years, but this week, today, he is meeting with him. he's already endorsed him for president. so many republicans and those on capitol hill say, oh, that's

just mitch mcconnell. he's all about politics, all about the gop, but isn't it more than that? isn't he emblematic of the rot in the gop right now? >> first of all, the gop is, as i knew it, as you knew it, as young as you are. >> oh, thank you. >> as you knew it, as everyone knew it, it's gone. it disappeared. this stuff has been going on for eight years. eight years we've been going through this dance with various republicans, donny. spinelessness to lack of character to complete duplicity to fraud. one major political party gone, diminished, means nothing to a lot of people today. i don't know how you rebrand that. >> the problem is not -- the real problem is not the party itself. it's the voters who are subscribing to the party. 74 million of them last time around. this time, trump ahead in the

polls not by a lot. the real question and the thing that's the most troubling, and i know a lot of these trump voters, is the party speaks for itself. they're transparent. we see it. other than liz cheney and mitt romney, i don't think -- and now you saw paul ryan, i don't think there is a republican that has spoken outside of or against their fearless leader. so what is it about, at this point, half the country that says, that's my party, i'll vote for that, that works for me? that's the troubling part. it's beyond the party. it's the voters that are subscribing to it. that keeps me up at night. >> that is concerning. i will say, fortunately, there are some members that have spoken out, some republican senators and congressmen that have spoken out and really harshly, harshly against donald trump, that i know will not meet with him -- hold on. [ laughter ] oh, okay. all right. alex, i'm really confused.

alex says these people are actually meeting with him. >> confused. >> i'm so confused. we'll play the clip and figure out how they could ever meet with him. >> go from there. >> let's watch. >> he is a race baiting, xenophobic, religious bigot. doesn't represent my party. >> a con artist is trying to take over the republican party, and we have to put a stop to it. >> never trump guy. i never liked him. >> donny, jd vance went on and said, as a christian, christians can't vote for him. >> oh, lordy. >> you know, this is a bizarre -- this is such a bizarre world we live in, donny. but, i've got to say, again, i think the thing that freaks so many people out are the things that move independent and swing voters in wisconsin, michigan, and pennsylvania, towards joe biden.

the thing that makes us do, how could anybody be against ivf? how could the republicans not support ivf? >> they use it. >> how could they keep contraception on the table? >> they use that. >> how could they support a guy who says he wants to execute chairmen of the joint chiefs? how, how, how? yet, these are the things that tarnish the brand. the extremism tarnishes the brand. i just believe at the end of the day, actually, that does matter. >> it does matter. it's interesting you talk about ivf, we're talking about apportion, and i've said this before. i do believe that the two smartest groups in this country, people over 65 and women, are going to say -- it is interesting those are the anchors right now of joe biden. if you talk about wisdom, if you talk about, you know, who, at the end of the day, people of a certain age, who have lied -- lived through things and have

perspective, women, who are wiser than men, interesting those are the anchors and pillars for joe biden. there is something to be said for that. >> yeah, there is. you know, when i was running for congress, i wish we had the bell here and we could hit the bell. >> where is our bell? >> i'd go into churches and talk and say, don't vote for me because i'm the best christian. i'm not. vote for me because you believe in the same things i believe in. >> right. >> i won at a young age. then a couple years later, i would see other republicans going and quoting bible scriptures, like 2 corinthians, things they didn't know. i'd go, dude, you're not a preacher. you're a politician. tell what you believe politically, and they'll do the rest. barb, it's gotten so much worse now. christian nationalism has now taken over the republican party. as you write in your book, people hide behind religion to

spread disinformation. it's almost like they're using jesus in this case and the cross as sort of a barrier between them and reality. for me, it's sickening. growing up as an evangelical. for america, it's dangerous because these carnival barkers are using religion in a way that you say con artists have always used religion to get ahead politically. >> yeah. you know, joe, i too, am a christian. i talk to christian friends who are deeply offended by the exploitation of the christian religion as a way to hide behind calls for violence, for power, and other things that are decidedly not christian. but christianity aside, as a former prosecutor in national security cases, i see a lot of parallels between the way christianity is being bastured

and how isis used islam with religion. some of the same tactics, you know, preying on grievance, culture war, the idea that we need to be a christian nation is very similar to the way they called for an islamic caliphate. when it is a holy war, then anything goes, right? because the ends justify any means whatsoever. if you listen to the rhetoric of donald trump recently talking about how people aren't going to stand for it if he is imprisoned, or will there be violence if you're not elected in the fall? well, we'll have to wait and see what happens. there will be bedlam. there will be a bloodbath. these things land on people's ears as a call to action. it's not just reckless. thes a deliberate effort to use grievance to obtain political power. >> you know, it used to be, amanda, not so long ago that we would be concerned as christians

looking at other faiths that would use their faith as an excuse for violence. we would say, well, my gosh, at least christians or the church would never do that. because, of course, jesus talks about turning the other cheek and talks about forgiving 70 times 7, all these other things. whether it's in the islamic world or whether it's on the west bank with extremists that are using religion to commit violent acts against palestinians, or whether it is even in our own country, where people who call themselves evangelicals but probably don't go to church, are now using violent rhetoric. we saw during january 6th, how depressing, while the violence was going on, people carrying crosses and claiming they were doing jesus' work. i know you, like me, you've been inside all of this.

you've seen the devolution of the party and the use of faith. what are your thoughts? >> yeah. i mean, it's amazing how much it changed even, you know, when i was working on the hill, and then to see how the maga movement got infused with christian politics and the rise of christian nationalism. when people ask me about it, they're like, you have to understand that christian nationalism isn't christian at all. they're just using christianity as the vehicle for the nationalism, right? that's the package it's wrapped in to get to the conclusion they want, this vision for america. it's certainly not all the churches, not all christians. it's a very organized, vocal, visible strain of it. you know, the thing i always think of, you know, i don't live in washington, d.c., but where i drive around, i see one flag and have seen it a few times at county fairs, hanging outside people's houses, and it never

fails to make my stomach drop. it is a flag with a cross and an ar-15 on it. it makes me so sad and angry to see. i mean, we have all this, like, flag discourse, but that is one that's not patriotic. i mean, that is a destruction of the american flag, which isn't respectful. then to put that christian -- to put the cross on it with the flag, have that on your house against your neighbors. again, i've seen it a few times. you see it sold. where i drive, there are tents that pop up in the summer that sell all these maga flags. certainly, like, that sort of style of flag, it's out there. it's pretty clear what they're trying to communicate. i can't tell you in specific words what it says, but it is violent, it's aggressive, it's intimidating, and it's just a disgusting interpretation of what patriotism and christianity is. >> well, it is the antithesis of everything jesus talked about.

it's like lauren boebert saying at a debate one time, or a speech one time, that if jesus had an ar-15, well, he wouldn't have been crucified. of course, showing her complete, total ignorance, that for those of us who believe, jesus could have avoided the cross if he wanted to. he did -- he willingly went there. >> right. >> that is the central tenant of christianity, to die for everybody's sins. the idea that it's been so twisted by people who are ignorant of the faith, ignorant of the new testament, of the gospels, to equate ar-15s and christianity, it shows a complete ignorance. and, again, using christianity for the wrong purposes. >> right. to add to amanda's great point she made about that flag being violent and aggressive, you think about the flag that was hung outside the alitos' house,

whether it was mr. or mrs. the supreme court justice's home, upside down flag which represents january 6th. you know, to amanda's point, it is a privilege to be in this country. it is a privilege to be part of this democracy. >> such a privilege. >> the flag represents it. desecrating it, turning it upside down, adding violent imagery, no, we're not snowflakes. we love this country. and that hurts to see. >> it's so crazy, donny, that the very people -- and my family is part of it -- who were horrified by the flag being misused in the '60s, '70s, '80s, so enraged, they're the very ones desecrating it right now. >> the flag stands for who we are. they're desecrating everything. they're desecrating every

institution, desecrating free voting, desecrating honest voting. they're desecrating the supreme court right now. i mean, everything that we kind of stood for is in play right now. everything, the good stuff. joe, you've been so articulating, the other party is pretty much about america sucks right now. america is great, talking with how you talked about the economy. >> america is great. >> this is a great country, and we are all so fortunate to be here. the other side is just crapping all over it. i think come election day, that's going to backfire. >> i think it will, too. let me tell you something about america. america is great. whether there is a republican in the white house or whether there is a democrat in the white house or whether there is an independent in the white house. there has become this twisted view over the past 25 views of hyper partisanship, that if your side doesn't win, if your side isn't in the white house, then

america is terrible. it is more extreme now than ever before. i will say again, and i talked about it on this show, i couldn't walk around the upper west side without seeing pictures of george bush as adolf hitler. george w. bush everywhere. everywhere, bush equals hitler. everywhere i walked in my neighborhood in the upper west side. i sat there and shook my head going, my god, what's wrong with them? now, people are saying, this was a guy far more open minded. this is a guy that saved 20 million lives in africa. you know, barack obama becomes the president. suddenly, republicans are talking about it like it's the end of the world. i mean, it's unbelievable. i will say, even when donald trump was president, despite the fact he was constantly pushing against constitutionalism, i was still saying america is a great country because america is a great person. it is bigger than any one person. it is bigger than even who the president of the united states is. america is great.

we're a great country. we're constantly striving to move closer to being a more perfect union. >> exactly. >> we're far from it. but we keep moving in that direction. we will keep moving in that direction. regardless of who the president is. it may get tough, but i have confidence in the american people. in the end, as churchill always said, after exhausting all other options, in the end, we americans do the right thing. >> donny deutsch and editor at the non-partisan group protect democracy, amanda carpenter, thank you, both, very much. >> thank you so much. >> former u.s. attorney barbara mcquade, thank you, as well. >> barbara, your book! barbara, let me say, your book is so important. >> "attack from within." >> "attack from within" is so important.

talk about why -- well, let's do it for father's day. talk about why fathers and others need to read this book right now. >> yeah. i think everybody needs to read this book but, you know, fathers, in particular. there is an awful lot of disinformation being targeted at our kids. things like sexual exploitation, enticement online, deep fake news of teenage girls being put out online that harasses them and bullies them, false information about birth control, and also information that is normalizing sexual violence. all kinds of things that i think dads ought to be aware of so they can have candid conversations with their kids and protect them from all of the disinformation that is out there online. in addition to all of the disinformation we are seeing in politics that are dividing this country. >> all right. barbara, thank you very much. for dads and granddads. we'll be right back.

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the class of survivors of the sandy hook shooting graduated from high school yesterday. 60 former students of sandy hook elementary attended a private ceremony in newtown, connecticut. a survivor of the 2012 shooting told nbc news the accomplishment brings very mixed emotions and that, quote, we can't forget there's a whole chunk of our class missing. the 20 first grade students and six educators killed in the

massacre were honored during the ceremony. the school hasn't released details about the tribute. at the sandy hook memorial, flowers were place bid the names of those educators and the fallen classmates who should have been there with them. mike barnicle, you can't help but think about these kids all the time over the last dozen years or so, what their livs have looked like. one student said, the shooting, because they were 6 years old, is the first memory i have. you don't remember a lot when you're 4, 5 years old. it was the first real memory of my life. they lost 20 of their fellow students, teachers, the principal, people who worked inside that building that day. then you think of the parents of the 20 kids. all these milestones that must just gut them every time. you know, whether it's a, should have been the sweet 16, now it should have been the high school graduation, all those things we've been so blessed to experience with our kids taken from them that day. just must have been an extraordinary scene yesterday up

in newtown. >> you know, willie, at the age of 5, 6, 7 years of age, the biggest thing they learned in elementary school was loss. the lesson they learned was loss. the loss of their classmates. the loss of some of their teachers. and the parents involved, you are absolutely right, it's a loss that never, ever goes away. you see someone of a certain age in a grocery store, oh, you looked like my daughter would have looked, how my son would have looked. you wonder about the future they missed. it is not only a tragedy in newtown, obviously. it's a tragedy that this country has to learn to live with. we haven't learned to live with it. we remember it on anniversaries. we remember it on days like yesterday when the high school graduation took place. but we don't think about it enough. if we thought about it enough,

the pressure would be overwhelming on the congress of the united states to finally, finally, finally do something about it. >> yeah. i mean, certainly, it is a story of resilience. these families have moved forward. but it is such a sad story, as well. to mike's point, that, sadly, so little changed that day. we've had so many school shootings since, including uvalde a couple years ago. it was just as horrific. yeah, it is hard to imagine it's been 12 years, and we certainly, you know, continue to think about these families and that community that will never be the same. >> there's that photo that still sends terrible chills, of the kids lined up in tears, hands on shoulders, following their teachers. a dozen years later, these young adults, incredibly impressive andxperiencing, unlike most people on the face of the earth, thank god, will ever have to experience. some moving on with activism.

some moving on to college and getting on with their lives, but always with the scar. we're thinking about them and the families of the 26 people killed that day at sandy hook. this morning, the house ways and means committee will hold a hearing on the recent surge in anti-semitism on college campuses across the country. according to the organization, more than 1,800 anti-semitic incidents on college campuses have been reported since the october 7th hamas terrorist attack in israel. that's a 700% increase compared to last year. joining us now, the founder and chairman of the non-profit human rights center under law, kenneth maurkice. also the former assistant u.s. secretary of education for civil rights. he will be testifying at today's house committee hearing. thank you for being with us this morning. those numbers are staggering. what do you want to tell congress today? how do we change the trajectory of where this seems to be headed. >> it is good to be with you.

what i want to tell congress today is what we are facing is a crisis. even beyond the numbers, even beyond the incidents, many of which are violent and appalling, this is a bit of a wake-up call. not just for the jewish community but all americans. what we're seeing is a fundamental change in our higher education culture. this is going to affect us all, and we're all going to need to deal with it. >> what are some ways we can deal with it? what are some -- i mean, this is a complex problem, obviously. what are some concrete steps that can start that process? >> well, congress certainly should pass the anti-semitism awareness act in order to provide the tools that the u.s. department of education needs in order to make sure that colleges are in compliance. universities need to look at their policies to make sure that they're in a position to deal with some of these violent uprisings, some of these protests gone wrong, some of this mass harassment of jewish students. it goes beyond dealing with

specific incidents. it's a wake-up call to ask fundamental questions. what are we doing as a people in which students now, american college students are aligning themselves, in many cases, with so-called resistance movement which has been violent and terrorist? i think it is more than just a question of how to deal with specific, discreet questions. it's also a question of we need to do soul searching as to how we got to this point with american higher education and how we can turn things around. >> ken, you've mentioned the phrase, wake-up call several times in a brief period of time here this morning. my question to you is, how many college presidents need a wake-up call? >> well, it seems all of them. i mean, the fact is there are a small number of college presidents who have issued statements that show moral clarity. others haven't been able to do even that. but the fact is, statements only

go so far. what we need is bold actions. what we need are new policies. we also need a certain inward thinking. we need educators to act like educators and to ask the question, what are the roots of this violence that is spreading on those institutions that are supposed to be oasis of tolerance, reason, and light, and which have, instead, become spreaders of this anti-semitism and undermining of values we should all be sharing. >> it goes without saying that we said this many times the last eight months or so, that if this were any other group aside from jews, and we were seeing and hearing the kinds of things we're seeing and hearing on college campuses, and not limited, as you know well, to college campuses. ugly attacks in new york city of paint on people's apartments,

triangles marked for death on people's doors, jewish people. why the equivocation in this case when, of course, we wouldn't see it with anyone else? >> it is startling to see the double standards. institutions that are quick to respond even to microaggressions against other groups are unwilling to deal with macro aggressions against the jewish people. some of it has to do with misunderstanding about the nature of anti-semitism. some of it has to do with confusion over a form of discrimination that university administrators have thought was a part of the past. some of it is an ideology in which dei or diversity, equity, inclusion offices tend to think of jews being privileged, white groups who don't necessarily need their protection. now, they're realizing a form of bias on their own campuses that is different than what they've been trained to address. >> all right. former assistant u.s. secretary

of education for civil rights, kenneth marcus, thank you so much for being on the show this morning. we appreciate it. >> my pleasure to be here. thank you. as former president trump awaits sentening for his guilty verdict in the new york criminal hush money trial, our next guest argues there is a common thread that connects all of trump's ongoing cases. that is his disdain for the democratic process. joining us now, contributing writer at "the atlantic," quinn that jurecic. a fellow at the brookings institution. quinta, you write in part this, "trump's fury over the new york verdict seems in part to be fury at the idea that 12 jurors could have so much control over his fate. the jury system is far from perfect, but the practice of deliberation among jurors, equal citizens weighing arguments and

considering evidence to come to a conclusion, is in some ways a mirror of the democratic process itself. it's no surprise, then, that trump and his allies moved swiftly after the conviction to attacking the jurors or erasing the jury altogether, accusing the process of somehow being orchestrated by president biden. there is no evidence for this accusation, of course, but it is a vision of the world trump seems to be more comfortable with, even in defeat. the single, untouchable strongman, orchestrating events according to his will alone." quinta, if you could take us further, i see that common thread that you are drawing there. i guess the part that i'm always very shook by and still triggered by and shocked and concerned over is republicans in leadership positions in congress and the senate who don't push back at this.

>> i think it's become, you know, really a sort of common wisdom among the republican party that, you know, this vision of the world that trump puts forward, which is, of course, very concerning because, you know, in an ideal world, you would say we have a legislature that is, in part, there to provide a check and balance against the presidency. even in the same party. but it really seems like there is a sort of common agreement that, you know, trump as the president, if he is to become president again, everyone agrees he is meant to be this strongman figure who bends everyone else to his will. i think there's a lack of respect for the role of the legislature, even among members of the legislature as a check, and a lack of respect for, you know, the role of federalism. this case was, of course, prosecuted in new york, not by the justice department. there's a level of independence there, that it was a manhattan district attorney, and, of course, the role of the 12

jurors themselves. there's a kind of eraser of the real texture and variety of different sources of power, different aspects of the democratic process here that's just erased in favor of sort of casting our system of government as one that is ruled by a single man, the president. >> it's whatever serves him. i mean, if the democratic process, for some -- if legislation serves him, he'll take it. if it doesn't serve him, he will denigrate it. he will undermine it. he will chip away at its credibility with the help of many minions who don't seem to see things the way you do, or they do but they don't care? or is it worse, quinta? >> i think it is hard to say. you know, one of the things that was really striking over the course of the new york trial is you would see these members of congress and other republicans,

you know, come into the courtroom, sit behind him, stand behind him in the hallway, outside the courthouse, and say, you know, this is all a political ploy. it is all orchestrated by joe biden. these are democratically elected officials. they'd understand there is no element of truth to that at all. this is a case brought by a prosecutor who was democratically elected by the people of manhattan. whether or not they understand that or simply don't care, or whether or not they don't understand, they're flattening it, and i think it does a real disservice to everyday people who might not understand those nuances on their own. they're depending on public officials to help explain these things and end one a really, sort of, flattened and i think dangerous understanding of how the system actually works. >> the new piece is online now for "the atlantic." contributing writer quinta jurecic, thank you so

much for being on this morning. we appreciate it. thanks for writing the piece. coming up, we'll have the latest on the cease-fire negotiations between israel and hamas. our next guest is someone who has been heavily involved in past talks to free american hostages overseas. he'll join the conversation straight ahead on "morning joe."

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hamas waited nearly two weeks, and then proposed more changes a number of which go beyond positions it had previously taken and accepted. as a result, and you heard the prime minister say this, the war that hamas started on october 7th with its barbaric attack on israel and on israeli civilians will go on. more people will suffer. palestinians will suffer. more israelis will suffer. it's time for the haggling to start and the ceasefire to start. it's as simple as that. >> antony blinken expressing his frustration over the latest

ceasefire proposal. hamas says its amendments aren't significantly different. we shed light on what's behind the scenes of the hostage negotiations. mickey bergman is a former combat officer and for the last 20 years, he's traveled the world as a private citizen working to free americans held unjustly overseas. he played a key role in securing the release of brittney griner in 2022. mickey is the co-author about his life's work titled "in the shadows: true stories of high-stakes negotiations to free americans captured abroad." mickey, thank you. these are true stories. heart-pounding. you have been inside north korea. you helped to get brittney griner out of russia. let's start with israel. you served in the idf. you understand how complicated these missions must be to try to -- the negotiations are one thing, but the mission we saw the other day to secure the four hostages and to bring them home. what is the best hope in your

assessment to get those remaining more than 100 hostages back to their families in israel? >> well, thank you for having me. i think since october 7th when it started and obviously a very emotional moment for me because it's a case now that i emotionally involved in. it's where i come from. it's people that i know, and when we deal with a new case, the first thing we do is try and figure out what is a theory of return, the script, the shortest path that somebody comes home, and in this case, that script shows that hamas and israel cannot negotiate directly, that there are entities and countries in the middle east that can influence hamas. nobody can control them, but influence them. >> qatar, perhaps. >> qatar, egypt, turkey, and iran. none of them are in a position where they want to do favors to israel, but at least two of them, qatar and egypt, want to work with the united states. therefore the theory of return was we need to make it an american priority, and president biden made sure of that very quickly. then the media or in this case,

qatar and egypt lean on hamas and say, we need to solve this not for israel, but that's an american priority, and if that proposal is even close to being feasible and they're never good, but at least feasible, the united states government will work with the israeli government to make sure it's as comfortable as possible to agree and implement it. it worked really well in the first 50-something days. it has failed since. >> so what is the difference in your eyes? we were talking a minute ago before we came on the air that there were many people skeptical that hamas, a terrorist organization who carried out the barbaric attacks of october 7th is even a viable negotiating partner. they lose all their leverage, but you say there may be some room to compel hamas to release them. >> this is not the first time we've negotiated between hamas and israel. we did this in 2007, 2008 that i was involved in, in

negotiations. again, it was a very tough deal for israel to get 1,100 palestinian prisoners returned -- they were freed, but returned, and i say on this one as well, we have the proof that hamas is -- we're able to do deals with them because 109 hostages returned already from october 7th in a deal. seven in military operation, and more than that, since december, the deal more or less, the same one that we're talking about now has been on the table, but we have failed to bring it to a conclusion. >> so mickey, you and governor bill richardson, the late governor richardson, have really been around the world dealing with death spots around the world to release hostages, and you have been incredibly successful. what is the difference today between dealing with a group of murderers, hamas -- who knows how many of the hostages are still alive? dealing with that group in

negotiations and evan gershkovich in moscow. what's the difference? >> they're so extremely different. to start with, the way the captors view negotiations. hamas' negotiations -- their fear is not an exchange. it's not a specific transaction like we're thinking about it. for them, it's what is the end game? what is the status we need to get to? they're pretty persistent. once they make it, it doesn't move as we can see now. they're kind of stubborn about this, and the more israel moves away from that status quo going into rafah, taking over the border with egypt, the more the list -- the longer the list becomes of the things that need to happen until the hostages come home. the russians, they're very, very old-school diplomats, traditional, sharp. by the way, what i'm saying here sounds like i'm very sympathetic. it's not sympathy. it's empathy. i have to get into their minds and understand what motivates them and how to respond to

things. the russians are very, very strong on symmetry and reciprocity, and so the negotiations over evan gershkovich and paul whelan and others, we're working on at least six other cases that are less known of americans in russia, and they're going to be at that level. the russians want to feel like they're equals in this, that there is reciprocity in effort, and that's how the solutions come about. >> so mickey, in terms of the high-profile case that was successful, securing the release of brittney griner from russia, tell us a little bit about how that happened? >> the work for brittney griner started before she was actually taken. the work has to be about relationship-building and in this case, governor rich richardson and foreign minister lavrov, they had a relationship. they weren't friends, but they had something to build on. when paul whelan's family reached out to us and we started working on that, that was during the trump administration.

we brought proposals that we were able to get agreed upon from the russians to get him home. when the americans decided not to -- by the way, when the american government does not negotiate, it's not because they don't want the americans home. it's a complex set of issues. we're horses with blinders. we're only about the prisoners or the blinders. the trump negotiation didn't want to negotiate. trevor reed was taken and then even under the biden administration, we had ideas and conversations with the russians and that was not moving anywhere until the war in ukraine was bubbling and about to happen. we found ourselves -- governor richardson, and myself, in the red square in moscow the day they announced the special invasion into ukraine, and we came back with our position of that of how to bring both paul whelan and trevor reed back home. what ended up being -- with we chose to do trevor reed, he was not well and he came home and we succeeded in that.

immediately after he came home, brittney griner's wife called us and asked for help. we ended up soliciting a proposal and having a frustrating attempt with the white house to bring this to a conclusion. we were there in september. brittney came back in september. we failed with doing paul whelan and brittney griner. it ended up just with brittney griner, and paul whelan still sitting there. >> we hope he comes home soon. brittney griner is quoted as saying, mickey and governor richardson are big reasons why i'm home. they called on deep relationships and educated and communicated compassionately with my family and team, whatever it took to bring me home. that's brittney griner talking about this man. the new book "in the shadows," it's on sale now. mickey bergman, thanks for being here, and thanks for the work

you do. >> thank you so much. still ahead this morning, the latest from italy as president biden attends the g7 summit. the biggest issues world leaders are facing there. plus, the senator of hawaii will be here to talk about expanding access to ivf under threat. plus, he's a grammy and academy award winner. he is questlove. we'll speak with him about his new book "hip-hop is history." we're back in 90 seconds. "hip-" we're backn i90 seconds kids love summer break, but parents? well... care.com makes it easy to find background checked childcare that fits your summer schedule. from long term to short notice.

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biden flew to italy to attend the annual g7 summit. he went to france last week. now he's off to italy. biden is like your friend that's somehow posting pics from europe all summer. you're, like, hey. do you work? what do you do? usually when an 81-year-old does that much traveling, it's on a viking river cruise. >> good morning, and welcome to "morning joe." it is thursday, june 13th. we're going to bring you the very latest from the g7 summit in italy. president biden is there meeting with world leaders and also talking support for ukraine. that's the top priority there. meanwhile there's a lot happening today on capitol hill. donald trump will be in washington to meet with lawmakers from both chambers setting up his first face-to-face with senate

minority leader mitch mcconnell in more than three years. it comes a day after a partisan vote in the householding attorney general merrick garland in contempt of court. we have the host of "way too early," jonathan lemire, former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst, steve rattner is with us, and staff writer at "the atlantic," mark leibovich is here as well. >> and willie, last night, jonathan lemire, i'm sure who's very nervous not just about the red sox starting down four, nothing against the phillies, but also recognizing that in the second half in dallas, the earth was flat for a while. it's kyrie and the dallas mavericks, just put on an absolutely torrential comeback, outscoring the celtics at one point 22-2. yeah. >> i mean the celtics were

running away with this thing. they were up 21 points in the first quarter, cruising on their way to what looked like a 3-0 lead, unsurmountable in this nba finals. then, you can always find it, a dark spot in the bright sky, to boston fans. held to one point on a kyrie irving jumper. the celtics did win ultimately. they are 3-0. they can win, the franchise's record 18th title tomorrow night. >> these are the kind of games i will say that this addition of the celtics team in recent years usually loses, and last night they didn't. so credit to them. they survived an early onslaught and dallas came out blazing at the start. the celtics were down 15. it was a tight game at the half. celtics had a tremendous third quarter and opened up the lead which they nearly blew, but they didn't. luka doncic fouled out, and he's taking a lot of criticism for his lack of defense yesterday and complaints to the referees.

kyrie was good to be sure, and the celtics have a balanced attack. kristaps porzingis is out, and jayson tatum and jaylen brown finished strong. that's a big road win, willie, and now just one win away. tomorrow night in dallas, that won't be easy, but even if they fall there, they'll go back home, game five monday. i'm not celebrating yet. i can't celebrate yet, but what a win. >> and joe, this is -- john, i've talked about this. they're 15-2 in these playoffs. they won 64 regular season games, kind of in the neighborhood of that celtics teams in terms of win, the '08 team, the last title they had in boston. >> they're undefeated which is remarkable. >> wow, and speaking of boston sports, jonathan lemire, the red sox came back from a 4-0 deficit to beat the best team in baseball, the phillies, and of course, preparing for this

weekend's showdown. i can't believe it. we ought to talk very briefly about this, but mid-june and the yankees to the red sox, that's this weekend. >> a good win last night, and they were lifeless the night before against the phillies. they could have thrown in the towel, but they didn't. the offense came strong in the second part of the game. nice win. 8-4, and yeah. willie, the red sox/yankees, they changed the schedule a year ago so they do play fewer times now. used to be 19, but now it's 12 or 13. it's father's day weekend, and they have not played yet, and this is a chance for us to try to chip away at your 13 or so-game lead, and we can close it 12 or 11. >> we turned it to 12 last night. the yankees are playing incredibly well. they had great pitching. gerrit cole not even back yet, and that lineup is unbelievable. playing well despite that injury we had.

oh, it's 14. i was trying to give you more credit than you deserve. 14 games up on the red sox, but i will say despite the season the yankees are having, the orioles are quietly hanging right with them. they're 2 1/2 games back, also having a great season at baltimore. >> well, i've got to say, this yankees team is the best yankees team i think probably since the yankees. if they don't win the game, they have to look. the first failure for the yankees. speaking of mercy rule, i don't even know why we're continuing to play. we have the yankees and we have no chance. let's just call it right now. we're the little engine that could, but we're rolling back down the hill right now. >> i'm the last caboose. >> getting serious for a second, we lost a dear friend yesterday. >> oh yeah. >> a dear friend to the show, to me, to nbc, and really to

washington, and if you don't believe that, look at some of the responses, mika, that howard fineman and his passing yesterday got from across washington. just a wonderful, lovely man. >> yeah. he was one of the most respected reporters inside the washington beltway, and he passed away yesterday. in a social media post from his own account, fineman's wife, amy, announced his passing from pancreatic cancer. sheborough, i'm heartbroken to share my brilliant and extraordinary husband passed away late last night surrounded by those he loved most, his family. fineman arrived at news week back in 1980. there he quickly built his well-earned reputation by giving readers an unvarnished look at the inner workings of capitol

hill and the powerful players making the decisions affecting the lives of everyday americans. that included the eight different presidents he covered in some capacity including george w. bush who spoke to fineman back in november of 2001 for his first extensive interview after the 9/11 attacks. in 2010, fineman left news week to become the senior politics editor and later, the global editorial editor at the huffington post. he joined nbc at that time where he became a familiar face on "morning joe" for viewers here for more than a decade. howard fineman was 75 years old. >> yeah, and -- >> we are so sorry. >> i read an article yesterday calling him a titan of washington journalism, but howard was a national editor and reported out of 49 of the 50

states, and he -- his time in kentucky, i think, may have been his most valuable because as howard and i spoke, he understood politics in a way that many -- that were born in the northeast, and went to school in the northeast, and just worked in the northeast, may not have understood. just keen insights, but i think most importantly as i have been talking to him over the past couple of years, emailing him, texting, just a wonderful, lovely man. he knew about the -- he knew about what was in front of him and was at peace with it, but -- but again, just -- just a great friend. we're going to have chris matthews and al franken on tomorrow to talk about the legacy and the life of howard fineman, but mark leibovich, you knew howard, and worked with him, and certainly i know like

me, you had to look up to him because man, he was -- he was a titan at "newsweek" and beyond. >> yeah, like a lot of people in this business i mean, who you look up to, you knew them first as a byline, and i remember when i was first starting out in journalism, and "newsweek" was at the peak of its powers. used to love reading it for its political stuff, and then i remember -- i think it was the 1992-cycle. i was in my 20s and i was up in new hampshire for the first time for a presidential primary, and i met howard fineman, this giant who i had been reading for many, many years, and he was then at "newsweek," and i was in awe, and he could not have been nicer. he was showing me around and introducing me to people. loved to tell stories. he loved that joke in that wise guy political reporter way, and i always appreciated seeing someone who -- who was so, you know, he loved the game.

he loved journalism, but also loved the things inherent to what we do, especially when we would run into each other on the road and i think we'll all miss reading howard also. >> so much. >> yeah. well, we're -- we're very grateful to have known him, a good man. >> yeah, really. >> and our thoughts and deepest prayers to his family. to our top story now, president biden is in italy this morning for the first day of the g7 summit. moments ago, he gathered with other leaders from the group of seven nations for this year's so-called family photo. the president will now attend multiple working sessions throughout today. afterwards, he'll meet with ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy and sign a security agreement between the u.s. and ukraine. joining us now is monica alba. she's in italy with more. what can you tell us?

>> reporter: well, mika, this is set to be a very consequential meeting of these leaders where there is so much on the agenda, but perhaps at the very top of the list, how to continue helping ukraine in its defense against russian aggression as that war stretches on for more than two years, and we do expect that by the end of the next couple of days, there will be some kind of agreement between the g7 leaders on how to help ukraine get more military aid in the access of funding from seized russian assets that have been frozen. now there was a little bit of debate over exactly how to do that, and whether that would be presented to ukraine in the form of a loan that will be paid over some years based on the interest of those frozen assets. we expect those kinds of details and national security adviser jake sullivan said that he does expect an outcome on that in the coming hours, but there is, of course, also the larger dynamic right now of the shifting winds

in european politics, and the fact that when you look at those different leaders who greeted president biden this morning in fasano, many of them, including president biden himself, may not be there at the next g7 summit in 2025. there have been many, of course, questions about elections in the uk, in france, in germany where many of these leaders have fairly low approval ratings, and then of course, president biden is facing re-election in november. so that is the overall backdrop to these conversations, and the larger looming question of, even if there are things that the leaders agree to and try to set into motion, will some of those things be undone or incomplete, or whatever happens a year from now. and we, of course, expect whatever the leaders continue to discuss, the potential ceasefire deal that president biden and certainly other leaders internationally have been pushing for hamas and israel to accept to end the war in gaza.

we expect there will be discussion of that in addition to countering china and specifically trying to issue russian sanctions from the u.s. against some china-based companies that are fueling the russian war machine in ukraine. so those are some of the expected thorny issues and topics that the president will be discussing with leaders and then tomorrow, he's expected to meet with pope francis who is coming to the g7 in a historic manner to discuss the issue of artificial intelligence. some of the advantages of the technology, but also some of the dangers that it presents. so a jam-packed couple of days here for the president in southern italy, willie. >> monica alba in italy for us this morning. thanks so much. so john, the president running hot. he's in normandy for almost a week, comes back for a few days, going back over to italy. what does he hope to take away from this g7?

what are the objectives that he may leave here in three days having achieved? >> first of all, not a bad place for a summit. looks pretty nice. >> not bad. >> there are a few things. this is his second trip to europe in a week. ukraine is at the forefront here. he's going to meet with president zelenskyy, and the two will hold a joint press conference. the president will take questions. this is the first time he takes questions since the conviction of his son. there will probably be domestic matters there. part of the framework is to keep aid to ukraine going no matter what happens in a series of elections this year. we saw the eu elections of course, over the last couple of days. the far-right making some real gains, and of course, the november election in the united states looms, and there's some hope here that commitments can be made to ensure that some u.s. aid will continue to ukraine even if donald trump who is a ukraine skeptic, were to return to office, and i also think this is -- this is the president's last major summit before the

election, and i think there's going to be a note of reassurance to his fellow leaders to say, you can count on the united states. we're not going to go anywhere, but we know there is rampant anxiety among the men and women we're seeing about what a donald trump return would mean, how he has threatened alliances before, how he wants an isolationist foreign policy. this is president biden saying, look. i can't guarantee the future, but we are americans. certainly if i win again, we can do this, but even if i don't, there will be a way to keep america involved. it's a real sort of -- sort of anxiety-filled summit right now there in italy. >> you know, steve rattner, we're going to be talking about this a little bill later, but it's fascinating that this g7 summit takes place against the backdrop of the strongest u.s. economy relative to the rest of the world than there's been in

decades. we had a report yesterday that the world economy is doing okay thanks in large part because of the unexpected strength of the u.s. economy. as world bank said, the impressive u.s. economy is powering the world. impressive resilience, growth buoyant, and the teeth of the fiercest monetary tightening in four decades. strongest dollar in almost half a century. so that's the backdrop of joe biden there, about how we're powering the world right now with our strong economy. also though as you look at those pictures, i'm curious of your thought. you have, of course, the chancellor of germany who just suffered a blow with the far-right in germany doing so well in the eu elections. a blow to his reputation, his party's reputation of course. the same with macron especially, but fascinating the one person

who did well is actually maloney and her party who when she came in, was perceived to be an enemy of the eu, a far-right extremist because of her party's roots with mussolini, but she's ended up actually being really pragmatic on the world stage. talk about that. talk about the economy, and just your general feeling about where europe is right now. >> you're exactly right, joe. first -- excuse me. on the maloney point, she's the only member of the g7 that has a higher approval rating than joe biden, but she's still at 41%, but when you look across the eu as you said, you said leader after leader, country after country where you're look at approval ratings for their leaders, 24%, 28%, in the 30s. richie sunak who you didn't mention but i'm sure you were thinking about, has a snap election coming in july, and by all accounts, he is going to get

wiped out, and it could be one of the largest majorities for labor in a long time, and i think it does relate to a considerable extent to the whole growth picture. we've grown over 9% in total, our economy, since the pandemic started. canada's at 5-something, and everybody else is at 1%, 2%, 3%, and the elections last weekend shouldn't have been a total surprise in the sense that europe is really, really struggling economically, including and indeed especially germany which has, of course, been the powerhouse of europe for so many decades, but between the impact of the ukraine war and the fact that germany is a major exporter of china and now all of that is now under a lot of pressure, it's a really, really difficult time for germany. europe as a whole, as i think a mix of the effect of the war, which is something, but not the only thing, but frankly simply having economies that have just not performed well over a long period of time. they don't have the flexibility of our economy.

they don't have the productivity. look what's going on in a.i. for example at the moment. we dominate a.i. there's one company in france, and a couple in the uk that are kind of in the mix on a.i., but everybody else in europe is just not present, and that is potentially a huge driver of future growth. there's simply a set of economies that have not delivered for their citizens, and therefore, the citizens are taking to the ballot box in a way that is very, very scary to all the rest of us. coming up, jonathan lemire just mentioned the hunter biden conviction. how much that case really matters in the presidential election. alexi mccammond joins us when "morning joe" returns. mccammond "morning joe" returns.

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let's go to capitol hill now where former president trump will be in washington today where he is set to meet with republican lawmakers from both sides of the hill. a senior trump campaign official tells nbc news the meetings will be focused on policy, zooming in on social security, taxes, border security, and a, quote, america first foreign policy. while trump's visit is being

presented as a positive development by some in senate leadership, senator susan collins, lisa murkowski, and mitt romney will not be attending the meeting. all three claimed they have conflicting plans. meanwhile, senate minority leader mitch mcconnell will attend, giving him his first face-to-face with trump since 2020. take a listen to what the minority leader said yesterday when asked if he would con front the former president. >> i said three years ago right after the capitol was attacked that i would support our nominee regardless of who it was, including him. i've said earlier this year i support him. he's been -- earned the nomination by the voters all across the country, and of course, i'll be at the meeting tomorrow. >> well, that will be an interesting dynamic, mark leibovich, to see mcconnell

there with donald trump. donald trump going to visit the office buildings, will not be at the capitol. obviously january 6th hangs heavy over this visit even though the president was not at the capitol that day. he held the rally that drove the people there. what do you expect today? what is the dynamic at play, whether it be all the republicans falling in line save for those who have conflicting schedules? perhaps a root canal for mitt romney. >> it's notable that mcconnell kept referring to trump as him. i don't think he mentioned his name once. he acknowledged that the capitol was attacked, and i don't think the dynamic with these things -- especially when you hear the former president's aides expect the meeting to be about policy. yeah, that's always true when it's trump's meetings are involved. >> total wonk. >> yeah, really in the weeds on this. i think this will be, i assume, when he's with the other

republicans, a complete, you know, show of sychophancy, and i don't know how you can see how -- this all took place in one of the great places of disgrace, and that's where he left washington. when he took off from the white house 3 1/2 years ago, i mean, the capitol had just been sieged, and, you know, he came -- it happened the same day that joe biden was inaugurated in the same place that he, you know, he was calling for an attack on, and look. the synergy here or the symmetry here of it all happening is quite notable, which is i expect this will be the same old thing, which is a falling in line and kissing of the ring for however long the meeting goes on for, but they won't be talking about

policy. >> joining us ali vitali. what is congress preparing for? >> to be a fly on the wall when mitch mcconnell walks into the meeting with the former president. you guys are so right to point out the awkwardness of this. as someone who's in the capitol almost every day, to ask senator mcconnell any kind of question around trump is to know that you're going to get some kind of very tense answer that doesn't really say -- seem to say the thing that we know is at the heart of this, which is what mcconnell said in the aftermath of january 6th when he said, and i'm quoting that trump was practically and morally responsible for provoking what happened on january 6th, and i don't think that we can stress enough here the ways in which the insurrection still hangs over the capitol every single day. it doesn't just take the former president coming up there to remind of the role he played in it or of the way that it happened. it is the reason why we see such high levels of vitriol in the halls of congress. it's the thing when i hear from

democrats who point to the other side, it's the thing that they continue to come back to, and it's why it's so hard to find bipartisanship. it's -- i know it was this way before, but the role of the insurrection is still so palpable just in the way that congress functions or rather doesn't, these days, and i don't think that we can underscore that enough. on the policy piece of this, i think we're all right to sort of shrug our shoulders when we hear lawmakers say that the focus of the former president's meeting is going to be about policy. to the extent that it will be, i've talked to several lawmakers including the speaker who say, we want to be prepared if he wins again, and they felt flat-footed last time. taxes of course, is going to be huge. >> ali, stay with us. we want to get to your reporting on the republican vote to hold attorney general merrick garland in contempt of congress. we'll also go live to capitol hill where democratic senator brian schatz of hawaii is standing by. he'll weigh in on donald trump's control over the gop. that's straight ahead on "morning joe." that's straight ahead on "morning joe."

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so ali, let's talk about the contempt vote in the house, 216-207 was the vote to hold the attorney general of the united states, merrick garland, in contempt because he will not release those audio tapes of the sitdown interview president biden held with the special counsel. what more can you tell us about how this unfolded? >> won't release the tapes, willie, but remember, the committees that want the tapes also already have the transcripts. they're pushing for them, and what the speaker told us in the minutes after this vote last night which passed along party lines with only one republican voting against it, the speaker said to me earlier in the day, and then to reporters after, the house did its job today. he felt it was important to put this message out there. now of course, we know the

department of justice backed up by the biden administration is exerting executive privilege over this audio. the doj lambasted the house republicans last night for turning? ing that they say is an important congressional authority into something that's partisan, but i thought it was notable for the one republican congressman, david joyce of ohio who voted against this in a statement he explained why, and i'll read it to you in part where he says that as a former prosecutor himself, he says he can't in good conscience further a resolution that would further politicize our judicial system to score political points. the american people expect congress to work for them, solve policy problems, and prioritize good governance. enough is enough. he's part of a republican majority that as soon as they assumed gavel power, willie, they said that oversight of the biden administration digging into what they call the weaponization of government was going to be the key focal point. that is the priority of the way that republicans want to do governance in the house. >> mark leibovich, let's of course, remember that there are

some members of the house including jim jordan who defied their own subpoenas in terms of the january 6th committee. it is just rank hypocrisy, but let's talk about the politics of this. the trump campaign would probably love that biden audio to come out so they can put it in a campaign ad or something like that, but it just -- the bigger picture, it just seems to be yet the latest example of how the republicans in the senate and particularly in the house, exist simply to do donald trump's bidding. >> yeah. i mean, 100%. i mean, this is for the video. of course, like you said, they have the transcript, but yeah. this is for -- this is material for a trump campaign ad to further underscore the fact that the sitting president is 81 years old, and if there's video to sort of make that point, they're going to try to avail themselves of it, but again, i mean, this is not -- first of all, even in the oversight realm, and this is nominally oversight, but it's certainly not legislation. it's not passing bills.

this is kind of weak. i mean, they -- obviously the impeachments haven't gotten anywhere as far as president biden goes. any kind of, you know, the jim comer investigations have gone nowhere. this is the latest on continuum. steve rattner explains the federal reserve decision and the impact of inflation on your money. that's coming up on "morning joe." that's coming up on "morning joe.

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the federal reserve yesterday kept its key interest rate unchanged and signaled that just one cut is expected -- >> you know, i may have my first grandchild possibly born in june. >> let's just -- we'll wait. >> we'll see. okay. >> expected before the end of the year, but we're excited. that forecast is down from the previous projection of three

cuts as inflation remains above the target level. meanwhile, as we mentioned, the world bank has looked up for the global economy, and it says the impressive u.s. economy is powering the world. they estimate the global economy will expand 2.6%. that's up from a predicted 2.4%. according to the world bank's chief economist, the u.s. economy is in particular, has shown -- it in particular has shown impressive resilience. growth has remained buoyant in the teeth of the fiercest monetary policy tightening in four decades. in addition, the u.s. economy is one of the reasons the world bank expects the global economy will enjoy some upside potential over the next two years. this as the bank's deputy chief economist called the u.s. economic growth exceptional. steve rattner, you noted on social media, quote, since the end of 2019, america's economy

has grown by about 8% in real terms. meanwhile, the euro area has expanded by only 3%. japan, a piddling 1%, and britain, not at all. america is the only big economy that is back to its pre-pandemic growth trend. so safe to say -- fair to say there are still some people who are suffering the impact. they really feel inflation, a lot of people. people can't buy homes. there are sectors that are seeing a lot of struggle for americans in terms of their financial security, but overall the u.s. economy is headed in the right direction. is that fair to say? >> yeah, mika. i think what you went through in your intro there is exactly right. the u.s. is by any measure, certainly among the major economies, the strongest economy in the world in terms of growth, in terms of job creation, in terms even of incomes after

inflation for average americans, including innovation industries as i talked about before. the tech industry is booming because of a.i., and some other things, but also let's remember -- a couple of things to note. first of all, we had a really good cpi release yesterday where the cpi didn't go up at all the last month, one of the best months we have had in quite a while. that actually led the fed to be more optimistic about interest rate cuts. there's a 70% probability according to the market that we'll get our first interest rate cut in september which would be good for the economy and good for the president because that would obviously be right up in the run up to the election. you do see signs here of increasing -- feeling a positivity toward the economy given the sentiment surveys. they have turned positive, but things like grocery prices -- grocery prices have been down four months in a row. food prices are down year of year.

yes, there was a huge amount of inflation relative to anything people most ages had ever seen before, but it has come down very, very dramatically and it's getting close to that 2% target, and what people also don't appreciate, for example, is that over the past year, the average worker has done better after inflation in terms of wage increases. i'll say it again. over the past year, the average american's purchasing power has gone up. not necessarily a huge amount, but something, and so this is a message that just needs to get out there about the fact that we're actually doing okay. yes, there's an issue about first-time home buyers with mortgage rates still so high. plenty of things to worry about, the deficit and the debt which joe which i have talked about for so many years, but we are the -- we are the strongman of the world from an economic point of view, no doubt about it. >> so as you point out, steve, inflation has been the stubborn sore thumb in an otherwise booming economy a post-pandemic economy. it's still there. there's a reason that major

retailers like walmart and costco and even mcdonald's are all cutting their prices to get people back into their stores because it's been too expensive. people are looking for alternatives. where is it in -- you talk about the pre-pandemic economy. yes, it's down, but still higher than anyone wants it to be. you said 2% is the target. how far off does that look? >> i don't want to get too wonky here. this is "morning joe," not cnbc, but there are a lot of different ways to measure inflation, but the way the fed measures inflation, which is not the cpi. it's another index, we're somewhere around the 2.8% range, somewhere there. we're quite close to the 2%, and in its economic projections yesterday, they said we're on a glide path to 2%, and this is also a surprisingly good development. there are many of us who felt there was a severe risk of a recession as we tightened the screws to get inflation down closer to the 2s, and it turns

out we were wrong. it hasn't been required. we continue to produce a couple of hundred thousand jobs a month, and this is definitely positive, and so we seem to be -- we seem to have achieved and don't want to declare total victory just yet, but this all points to a soft landing. interest rates start to come down, and the economy will continue to grow. coming up, questlove, the iconic drummer for the roots and of course, "the tonight show" with jimmy fallon joins us to talk his new book "hip-hop is history." that's straight ahead on "morning joe." story. that's straight ahead on "morning joe."

♪♪ ten before the top of the hour. father's day is this sunday, so we wanted to take a moment to

talk about the case for, yes, paternity leave. new data shows paternal leave is finally gaining momentum, driven in large part by gen z employees entering the workforce. overall, only 27% of u.s. workers get paid family leave, far from enough. that's my opinion. here to discuss, editor of forbes women maggie mcgrath and huma abedin. maggie, what has your reporting revealed about dads and paternity leave? >> our reporting has shown that men are increasingly taking some kind of family leave. you'll see that 50 years ago,

less than 10% of new fathers got any form of leave at all. fast forward to 2016, and you see two-thirds of men taking some kind of leave. the operative word here is some. men take an average of one week of paid leave after the birth of a child compared to ten or 11 weeks for women. we know about 3 in 4 men say they would take longer leave if it was available to them. when the policies are enacted, when it is available for men to take leave, they do take it. in fact, in california, which passed paid family leave in inventory, the portion of men filing for it has tripled in the last 20 years. >> huma, experts for equal pay

and equality say it starts in the home, sharing duties. is that one of the reasons it's important that fathers take family leave? >> 100%. as maggie indicated, there's progress, but a lot more work to get done. there's this business solvers 2023 review that suggests part of it is increasing awareness, number one, normalizing mothers and fathers taking time off to be with their family. secondly, fatherhood was traditionally seen as something where you have to provide for the family. realizing it's an equal partnership at home makes a huge difference. and employees want this. it increases awareness,

meaningful relationships and support of maternal leave. they want flexible work hours, paid maternity leave, flexible work locations and also family benefits. on that list is paid paternity leave. >> absolutely. maggie, there's limited progress at the federal level. how have states and certain companies stepped up to fill the gap in terms of paid medical leave? we talked on "morning joe" about mental health leave. are companies filling the gap? >> if i were to give a grade, i'd give states and companies a b minus. 13 states and the district of columbia have passed paid family leave and/or already implemented

it. for those who haven't, the programs will be running by 2026. on the corporate front, we are seeing paid family leave and paternity leave become an increasingly popular employee benefit. companies are catching onto the fact that paternity leave can increase retention and engagement. there a survey of a thousand corporations, 62% offer paternity leave compared to just 44% in 2019. we also know from data that the workers who are least likely to afford time off are also the least likely to have access to paid leave. only 14% have access to paid leave, compared to half of the top 10% of wage earners. >> what about the importance of

male allies in all of this, especially male leaders in different industries and in politics? >> it's not just talking the talk. it's walking the walk. you have 80% of men in the workplace who want to support women. when they say support, they interpret that as hiring, as promoting. if you have access to paid paternity leave, you should take it. it destigmatizes thenotion that we want equal rights at home as well as the workplace. i think in the end it's good for business because you retain staff, but also it's good for relationships at home. >> maggie mcgrath and huma

abedin, it's great seeing you guys. thank you very much. up next, senate democrats plan to force a vote on protections for ivf this afternoon after blocking a competing bill from republicans. democratic senator brian schatz of hawaii will be with us. also, questlove will join us right here on "morning joe." oves right here on "morning joe." [kettle hisses] ♪♪ oh my god. [phone rings]

at the tone, please record your message. [clock ticks] ♪♪ ♪♪

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it's your time to cash in. so don't just play. stay... at northern california's premier casino resort. book your getaway now at cachecreek.com. joey chestnut has been banned from the eating competition this year because he signed an endorsement deal with a vegan meat company which is like if cookie monster signed a deal with celery. >> this is like barring lebron james from basketball or aaron

rogers from podcasting. >> he's got a family to feed and feed and feed and feed. >> it's never gonna be the same. >> it won't. >> there it is. there it was, coney island, but no joey chestnut. >> what's the point? [ laughter ] >> we'll never smile again. after the passing of jfk, patrick moynahan said, oh, we'll smile again. >> i'm always so grossed out to

see him stuffing those hot dogs in his mouth. >> don't we assume this is just a brilliant pr ploy to build the drama, then they find a way to work it out and jaws returns to break his own record. i think it's like 72 or 74 hot dogs in ten minutes. >> ew. >> i don't think this story's over yet, just a little hunch. >> that would be like banning lance armstrong from cycling. >> the hot dog eating contest is the most nauseaing hour of the

year. maybe it's even a surprise return to the stage that very moment. here it is, july 4th, joey chestnut is back. >> joining the conversation we have the host of "inside with jen psaki", jen psaki. and alexis mccammon. >> i think there's a buildup here. the night before there's going to be some sort of announcement

or leak that joey chestnut is returning. then it will be a big buildup and more people will watch it. >> and you are the voice of a new venn ration of hot dog eating fans. what do you think about joey chestnut? >> i'm here for a potential return and the announcement of like a vegan hot dog eating contest. also, i need to knows what the best meat in tube form. many people say it's a hot dog and i don't know if i can get down with that. >> no, i can't get down with that. >> did i have one at the red sox

game? >> you did. >> one for the decade. >> you have to have a hot dog at a baseball game. >> i know. >> they really stay with you. >> the republican-controlled house narrowly voted to hold attorney general merrick garland in contempt of congress. >> for refusing to turn over audio of president biden's closed-door interview about his handling of classified documents. in february, special counsel robert hur shared the findings of the investigation and declined to prosecutor the president. that probe included a lengthy interview with biden where hur claims the president demonstrated memory lapses. hur complied with turning over the transcripts of that interview. in terms of the audio after that

interview, garland argues it could have a chilling effect on future cases. the white house has also exerted executive privilege over the audio, meaning garland is unlikely to be prosecuted. ranking member of the oversight committee, democratic congressman jamie raskin of maryland criticized his republican colleagues, calling the effort a distraction from their failed biden impeachment probe. >> our colleagues invited us to become the first congress in the history of the united states to hold someone in contempt for complying with demands. the attorney general gave the special counsel the report on president biden in full. he made it available to us in committee for hours of testimony where he answered all our questions. then he provided the full

transcript of the five-year hour interview with special counsel, all 250 pages of it. the whole world can read president biden's answers unedited. they want to hold the attorney general in contempt for not turning over the audiotape of a testimony we have a verbatim transcript of. remember, this is an impeachment investigation. do they think the holy grail of the 118th congress is lurking in the pauses or the background throat clearings and sneezes on the audiotape? of course not. they know there's no high crime or misdemeanor to be found, because they've spent the last seven months and millions of our taxpayer dollars looking for it. they're hoping that in the five

hours of president biden's testimony they can find a mispronounced word or phrase or a brief stammer which they can then turn into an embarrassing political tv attack ad. that's what this is all about. holding the attorney general of the united states in contempt is one more useful distraction from the complete and devastating implosion of the biden impeachment probe, which of course was the number one priority of these talented leaders. >> general garland says, it's deeply disappointing that the house of representatives has turned a congressional authority into a partisan weapon. the justice department's need to protect its investigation and a substantial amount of information we have provided to the committee. this committee has the transcripts. they know what's in here chapter

and verse. obviously they want the audio so they can cut it up and use it for partisan means in an election year. speaker johnson says this is a very, very serious matter and in the same breath calling the january 6th committee investigation to be investigated. >> i think the important thing for people to pay attention to here is this is a preview of what is to come if republicans maintain control of the house of representatives. none of this, to paraphrase jamie raskin and attorney general garland is on the level. the transcript is out publicly. it was five hours of testimony. hur gave a big gift to the republican message machine in some of the lines he included in his analysis of the robert where he suggested joe biden wasn't with it and he was old and that's what the jury would

think. they already got that gift from him. this is a preview of what will happen if republicans control the house. this is not tradition. what they're doing to alvin bragg, they are trying to make it sound like they're going to subpoena him to get him to testify before the house, which is just not traditionally through democrats and republicans how it's ever happened. they don't care about that, the separation of power or the justice department's independent. >> playbook this morning has new reporting about how trump called speaker johnson and said we have to overturn this and johnson said he would try. this is all part of a larger

piece. this is republicans in the house and senate just doing donald trump's bidding. symbolically, trump is going to the hill today to meet with a lot of them. they are, it seems, just the newest arm of the trump campaign. >> i'm glad you brought that up. we've seen the house of representatives republicans grasping at straws to help trump get reelected. if they had good things to say about trump, they wouldn't have to be scraping the barrel looking for things about biden. i also think what jen said is an important reminder to viewers, to voters this is a preview of what will happen every single day, but it will be times 12 if

donald trump is reelected, if the republicans take control of the house. this will be a daily, multiple times a day situation if trump is reelected, if republicans maintain control of the house. >> senate democrats are set to enforce a vote set to maintain access to ivf. the vote is not expected to pass. democrats are pushing what they call a comprehensive package of fertility bills that includes protecting ivf access and making the procedure more affordable. republicans call the vote

unnecessary. they tried to pass their own ivf legislation. it does not answer the legal question around the disposal of unusd embryos. can you explain why these votes are taking place? >> well, after roe fell, a lot of women were harmed, a lot of families were harmed. i think one of the problems we have right now is that people believe in their heart of hearts that republicans wouldn't go through with the things they are absolutely going through with. now, 1 in 5 couples have difficulty conceiving. in 2022, 85,000 babies were conceived using ivf. our message to the public is we're going to protect ivf, we're going to protect contraception. we're going to enshrine roe if

you give us the trifecta. they want to take away any choice, any ability to determine the size of your family, when you start a family and the circumstances under which you can interact with your doctor if you find that you're having trouble conceiving and having a baby, if a doctor comes to you and says, we want you to consider this procedure, that should be your call with your spouse. it's not going to be your call with your spouse if republicans win the trifecta. >> senator, tell me why in the world would republicans vote against a bill that most republicans, especially republican women and young families who are conservatives for a procedure that provides

life, provides hope for parents across america, why would republicans oppose that? >> well, i think it's a super smart question, joe, because we now know this is not about protecting life. this is about controlling females. this is about controlling bodies. this is about controlling the extent to which people can make their own choices about their own families and when and the circumstances under which they're going to start a family. this is a bill that enshrines in statute the right to ivf. 85,000 babies were born using this miraculous procedure a couple of years ago. i can't imagine if you consider yourself pro-life to be anti-this, but that's what they mean by pro-life. they want to control and legislate what happens inside the body of half of all americans. >> senator, i wanted to ask you just about the republican bill. i think what they're trying to

do here is kind of muddy the waters a little bit. they're trying to protect ivf too, but there are some specifics in that bill that are hugely problematic. in vitro fertilization is only paid -- protected if you have medicaid funding. a lot of people don't have medicaid funding. >> a lot of people who have declined medicaid expansion are already those conservative states, so it lines up perfectly with their ability to block ivf in those states. we think this should be a federal right. it goes to the theme of democrats over the next five or six months, which is, we're going to control your fundamental freedoms to control your own body, to vote, to have economic mobility. it's very clear to me that republicans are terrified in particular about ivf and

contraception, which is why they're trying to create cover. everybody understands right now republicans are about to vote no on this because the susan b. anthony list told them to do so. >> keep us posted. thank you very much. we'll be watching today. meanwhile, the southern baptist church, the nation's largest protestant denomination voted to oppose the use of ivf. nbc news correspondent erin mclaughlin has the details. >> the ayes have it, and the resolution is adopted. >> reporter: this morning, the nation's largest protestant denomination voting firmly in favor of a resolution against the current practice of in vitro fertilization. >> dangers that come from mishandling or abuing these

kind of things would not be considered ethical by us. >> ivf has been around for decades. why now? >> well, the catalyst was undoubtedly the decision by the alabama state supreme court. sometimes there's a catalyst that all of a sudden helps to awaken the christian conscience on these issues. >> reporter: the resolution, which received about 50% of the votes, supporting a decision in february by alabama's supreme court, which ruled embryos are considered children. >> this is a firm fact, correct? >> correct. >> unequivocally. >> it's not just a statement of moral principle. it's calling on members of these faith communities to lobby the government to restrict ivf. >> reporter: still, the decision was not unanimous. some delegates shared stories of

lived enriched by ivf, including daniel taylor, who spoke on behalf of his godson's parents, who conceived using ivf. >> i can't believe we are privileged to have him in our lives. because of him, i thank god for ivf. >> why are you disappointed by this resolution passing? >> i think some of the language implies there is no use for ivf that is ethical, whereas i know of circumstances like my godson where ivf was used in a very ethical way consistent with pro-life and christian ethics. >> is this in the bible? is this in the scripture? where is this coming from that is related to the actual religion involved? >> i've talked about this

before. from the birth of christ through 1980, the southern baptist church was pro-choice. there was nothing revealed over those almost 2,000 years that made the southern baptist church go pro-life. they did for political reasons. again, you can -- if you're actually interested in history and you're actually interested in the facts, you can trace it back, as i've said to richard vigory and jerry falwell and conservative activists who decided they needed to use abortion to separate democrats from the southern baptist democrat.

so they did. paul wyrick also. they said we're not only going to make it a political issue, we're going to make it a religious issue. they started a process that now i've got to say makes life much harsher and more frightening for 10-year-old rape victims, for victims of incest. and now in this move, i must say -- >> families desperate to have babies. >> families desperate to have babies. we know about this personally. families desperate to have babies. again, i grew up in the southern baptist church. i think this is a very extreme view for the convention to take on the whole. i will just say, if there is such value for life, then i

think the southern baptist church should have a very, very harsh direct statement on the death penalty, on war if they -- again, they can do that. i know there are other people of faith who are pacifists who value life to such a degree they believe even war is a sin. as i've said here before, the bible, the new testament, the gospels, the teaching of jesus christ should instruct christians to do what they believe in an area where jesus was silent, where jesus didn't talk about, for instance, abortion. this is the lie the hard right will take. the hard right will tell you this is a contemporary issue. it was an issue in ancient roam.

aristotle talked about this issue hundreds of years before the birth of christ. so this is an issue jesus just happened to not talk about. even the catholic church over the centuries went back and forth over saying abortion was okay through the quickening. it was back and forth and back and forth when humans decided how they wanted to interpret the gospel of jesus christ. but to claim jesus is against this and jesus is against ivf, it's just -- that's just -- there's no scriptural basis for it. again, people can use the scriptures to instruct. but please leave the righteousness at home and get out of my face with it, because

if the southern baptist church was passing resolutions in the 1970s that they were pro-choice, are you going to tell me my mom, my grandma, my dad is in hell now because they took us to church four times a week, because everybody before 1980, when richard vigory and jerry falwell cynically decided to use this as a political issue, that somehow those southern baptists are lost? it's a lie. it's a lie that's been spread over our lifetimes. i'm not here saying that churches don't have the right to be pro-life or to be against ivf, but don't hide behind the gospel of jesus christ to do it. i've read the scriptures and i've been instructed by it. this is on my heart.

just like pacifists who don't go to war, just like catholic priests who have been against the death penalty for a long time, it's very selective here. it's very judgmental and it's very driven by politics. again, let me say i'm talking mainly about protestants here, because i will say catholics for a much longer time have seen abortion as a central tenet in their faith. protestants just figured out that abortion was a sin not after the beatles broke up, but after the eagles broke up. instead of saying we feel this way, but we're not going to judge you and say you're going to hell because you took the

position that we took for hundreds of years. coming up, donald trump is in washington to present his case before the country's top ceos as to why the economy would be better if he returned to the oval office. andrew ross sorkin and stephanie ruhle will join us to preview that meeting. >> oh, look at that. >> next on "morning joe." >> what do you think is inside of that? >> that's disgusting. >> disgustingly awesome. ♪♪ - so this is pickleball? - pickle! ah, these guys are intense. with e*trade from morgan stanley, we're ready for whatever gets served up. dude, you gotta work on your trash talk. i'd rather work on saving for retirement. or college, since you like to get schooled. that's a pretty good burn, right?

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in an interview last week before hunter biden was found guilty on three federal gun charges, president biden said in no uncertain terms he would not pardon his son if he was convicted.

>> i have not spoken to the president about this. what i'm saying is he was asked about the trial specifically and he answered it very clearly, very forthright. as we know, the sentencing hasn't even been scheduled yet. i don't have anything beyond what the president said. he's been very clear about this. >> a white house official later added to nbc news, any conversation about hunter biden's sentence would be premature at this point because there's no sentencing date left. alexi mccammond, what's your view of this? are we playing word games here with commuting a sentence versus letting him go entirely? >> as president biden has said clear, he's not considering a pardon, he says, at this point.

obviously that would be a political bomb to throw in the 2024 election and would completely change things if he were to do that now. a i think it will bring an opportunity for voters to look at the candidates and consider not just their politics, but who they are as men and people and fathers and family men. so i think this is something that gives president biden an opportunity to empathize with a lot of americans who have loved ones who are addicted or have been addicted to drugs and remind them he can console them in their moment of need unlike president trump.

>> there was disappointment in trump's camp that hunter biden was convicted, thinking a not guilty verdict would have been a how long fundraising opportunity and would have played into his two-tiers of justice argument, though he's still trying to do that somewhat awkwardly. the convictions are definitely going to be part to have the presidential debate two weeks from tonight. if you were still in your old job and counselling president biden in that moment, what would you do in terms of trump's guilty verdict? >> in trump's guilty verdict, he can't hold back. he can call him convicted felon or whatever he wants. the key is you are try to the appeal to the party and engage them. they want president biden to be wearing a t-shirt with donald trump behind bars.

he's not going to do that. you have to appeal to independents and some who have indicated they might be willing to come to the biden side. you have to think about how you're going to talk in a way that appeals to both. former president trump is running to keep himself out of jail. joe biden is running to help the american people. he's going to have to answer that question probably when he's in a press conference today. part of this is also there's a very human side of what hunter biden has gone through. millions of families in this country deal with drug addiction, are impacted by drug addiction. president biden -- you remember that leaked text message of him texting his son in 2019 right before he ran for president basically saying, i love you, i'm thinking about you.

that's a dad. that's a human response. that is who joe biden is. he loves his son while also at the same time reflecting the rule of law. that's kind of the opposite of what trump does. it's also why in reporting it has been suggested that trump doesn't want to even necessarily talk about this and a number of republicans have been kind of quiet. we'll see if that changes in the debate. >> there's not a good comparison here. when you look at donald trump and look at hunter and look at the charges against. one of them is running for president of the united states. the other is a recovering crack addict. there is no comparison. joe biden saying i won't pardon my son and then what about commuting the sentence, it's

crazy that we're having this conversation when you look at the fact that donald trump is saying he'll pardon people convicted of crimes on january 6th. >> he calls them hostages. until republicans and frothing fox news hosts want to talk about that and actually be shocked and consider it a problem that he wants to pardon those who rioted and defecated on the capitol and tried to kill people at the capitol,ing in you can take a second to talk about that in a real, honest, factual way and, by the way, add in just a sprinking of jared's billions that he got from saudi arabia, unless you want to talk about that, why don't you stay off of hunter and what joe biden decides to do?

it's not yours to judge given the stupid party. >> you can go back to donald trump when he was president of the united states, how obvious can you be -- bought a hold in washington, d.c., had people from across the world come to that hotel to make him money. he gets out of the white house, he sells the hotel. we all knew what was going on while he was president of the united states. we all saw what was going on while he was president of the united states. again, i just don't think any of this is something they're going to want to bring up in debates. >> yeah. it's not a good area for him. the american public isn't terribly interested in it even. you ask them, they go, i don't know, i know he's the president's son.

what a stark contrast, president biden saying i will respect whatever this jury decides which is donald trump after he was convicted on 34 counts, saying the entire system is rigged against him. jen psaki, thank you very much. jen's new book "say more" is on sale now. the federal reserve yesterday kept its key interest rate unchanged and signalled just one cut is expected before the end of the year, down from the previous projection of three. let's bring in andrew ross sorkin and nbc news senior business analyst and host of "the 11th hour" stephanie rile. andrew, you just finished a conversation on the air with treasury secretary janet yellen. what was the take-away?

>> the biden administration is going to be talking about inflation over the next several months clearly has moved in the right direction, but hasn't moved enough. americans, for better or worse, seem to have a lot of misgivings about the state of inflation. given what we heard just yesterday from jay powell about the opportunity for a rate cut, it only appears we're going to get one at best this year. the question politically is when does that come and if it were to come prior to the election, does it change people's view of the president in so far as interest rates coming down. we sort of went back and forth a little bit about that very issue. >> steph, what do you make of inflation cooling a little bit, the fed saying we'll give you one rate cut probably in september. what does it all mean? >> inflation cooling is a big positive. however, things still cost more.

things are 20% more expensive than they were pre-pandemic. we can say, things are cooling, that's great, wages are up, that's fantastic. but people remember how much stuff cost when you get a sandwich, coffee or go to purchase a home. when you look at the world economy, economies around the world are doing well on the back of our strong economy. that's great data. however, when you're at the grocery store and you are buying london broil, you're not thinking it costs way more in portugal. this remains a complicated issue for the president, but underneath it, it really is good news. look at the stock market. bang! another record is hitting. >> we've talked about donald trump's trip to capitol hill today meeting republican representatives and senators alike. he has this roundtable with ceos

there. >> the business roundtable is comprised of about 200 of the biggest, most significant ceos of fortune 500 companies. here's what's important to know. yes, president biden is going to speak to them today. brt speaks to presidents and presidential candidates year after year. joe biden was also invoided. he declined the invitation. donald trump is most likely going to walk out of this meeting and push on all of the channels, look, the business world just endorsed me. they're not necessarily in his corner. for people out there who are angry that these ceos are going to be in audience for donald trump, of course they should go. he could be the next president

of the united states. it is their responsibility to show up and hear what he has to say. the argument they should protest going is also kind of absurd. >> the obviously, if they're ceos, they all need to go and listen to what everybody's going to say. of course, ceos understand what the world bank understands, which is the united states' economy is driving the world economy in a positive direction. things are going in the right direction. steph is exactly right about grocery prices if you look at it before the pandemic and they are higher. i think it's gas and grocery prices that matter the most. even there it's a silver lining that grocery prices have declined over the past four months and is actually moving into a period of deflation. if you look at recent polls and consumer confidence, this may be

something that may be starting to catch the attention of consumers and voters, because those numbers are tightening between biden and trump on who they trust more on the economy. >> there's two issues. one is, the trend line is currently in the current president's favor. you look at the polls, and there is a view that folks seem to look back and think the economy was handled better prior. i think one of the things we're going to learn about the business community is how they actually feel about a guy that actually they effectively got in bed with at one point and then got out of bed with. that's pretty much what happened last time. a lot of folks like to be around winners. a lot of them joined the advisory council trump had in 2016. then his comments came about charlottesville and they all disbanded and said we can't be

near this anymore, this is radioactive from a brand marketing and corporate perspective. is there collective amnesia about that? do they go back and try to rewind the movie and start it over? does it end differently? >> andrew ross sorkin, thank you. and stephanie ruhle, we'll be watching "the 11th hour" at 11:00 p.m. eastern. thank you very much, both of you for coming on this morning. we appreciate it. coming up, he is a world class drummer, producers, grammy and academy award winner and cofounder of the hip-hop band the roots. questlove will be our guest live in studio to discuss his new book about the history of hip-hop and the impact it has had on his life. "morning joe" will be right back.

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♪♪ ♪ i say one, two, three, four ♪ ♪ hip-hop you don't stop ♪ ♪ up jump the boogie ♪ >> so >> you know, willie, i remember hearing that like at the first time at a school dance, of course in my leisure suit with ruffles and a big bow tie, hair parted down the middle, and we all just kind of stopped, what's that? and you know, soon enough everybody was shouting hotel motel holiday inn. it was the start of something. >> it was fun. >> massive.

>> it was, and you can literally right in this picture, you can see it happening, which is disco, the transition from the disco era in the early, early days of hip-hop, though it's becing popular was a ways off. the 1979 hit rappers delight considered the first popular record in the genre of hip-hop. hip-hop has cycled through countless stages, sub genres with chart topping hits often reflecting top of the mind political issues for artists and their fans. the roots of hip-hop and its evolution over the past 50 years, the subject of the new book hip-hop is history. joining us now, its author, six-time grammy award winning musician, academy award winning filmmaker and cofounder of the roots, quest love. so good to see you. >> that was impressive to hear. >> that was buildup, and i couldn't even fit everything in. everything else you've got going on. a dj of all the biggest parties across the country. you're doing it all. >> i'm trying to do less work

now. >> we were just talking, we're basically of the same generation. i grew up on late '80s, early '90s hip-hop. that's my favorite stuff. >> same. >> where do you trace the birth of hip-hop, and then we can kind of walk through its growth? >> one of the things we try to uncover, we gave it a birthday, we said august of 1973, even before august of 1973, the spirit of hip-hop has always been prevalent in black music culture. like even if you look back in the '40s during the renaissance jazz period. that was seen as outlaw music. hide your daughters. ray charles turning gospel music into salacious sexual songs, that was outlaw music. and even if you look at like the last poets, the watts profits, gill scott heron, the spirit of hip-hop has always been there. we mark the august 1973 day of

cool herk doing a back to school party to raise money for his sister's school clothes. >> on sedgwick avenue. >> on sedgwick avenue, as the moment in which you're hearing the breakdowns of songs, like that magical four bar part where it's just the drums and it causes excitement in the room, so yeah, so most people would agree that august '73 is the starting date, but hip-hop has been here since we've been here. >> you mentioned the outlaw piece. i know one of your favorite groups in mind is public enemy. put nwa on the west coast. for a kid growing up in the suburbs loving the music, there was a safe distance from danger, you know, from a lifestyle that i only heard about through the music. how important were those bands, those groups to the growth of hip-hop? >> okay you know, i've been noticing, even when writing this, this a lot of people's sort of first look at black life

were through the music, you know, and rarely do people actually immerse themselves inside. they go right to the edge and see what are they doing over there. but for public enemy, always describe it as, you know, when the punk generation, when the rock generation gets the ramons or the punk generation gets bat brains or sex pistols, hearing rebel without a pause back in like 1987 was like that moment for me in which like their entire album -- well, one, just woke me up, but also their album made my -- what i thought my, the boring part of my parents' record collection like come alive. because suddenly it was like, wait a minute, where do i know that from? wait a minute, and then you're putting two and two together like, you know, there's no feeling like that discovery. >> joe. >> you know, one of the things questlove that i -- one of the

reasons why i told you that i thought summer of soul was the best music documentary i've seen is because it wasn't really a music documentary. it was a documentary about culture, a documentary about race, about politics, about faith, about fashion. you name it, it encompassed just an entire culture, an entire time, i'm wondering -- >> thank you. >> -- how that translates to this book? because i know it's the same. even generational, i just have to bring this up. sweating in velvet and then slide came out and everybody's like, wait, what's he wearing? he's got a white drummer. what's going on up there. he played by his own rules, slide did. >> yeah! and i'm wondering, how is it -- how do you explore in this book how this is so much more than a book about music. >> well, i'm glad you said that because when i'm done here my

follow-up film is the documentary of sly and the final stone. today's the last day, two years of working on this. basically, this book and the previous book music is history, was actually the result of me trying to find ways -- like i would use creativity to calm me down in the pandemic, so the stress of surviving in the pandemic worrying about my loved ones in the pandemic, and being handed the responsibility of telling this story, the harlem cultural festival in the pandemic, i needed something to distract me to just calm me down, and so i would dj online, you know, four or five hours i was dj'g every night on social media during the pandemic, and i wanted to keep kind of a meticulous record of all the music i played, and so five months into it, suddenly i had

two books worth of music, and eventually my publisher was like, well, you're not dj'g online, you're more or less giving a college course, so why don't we turn these into books. and so this is actually the result of me trying to find a hobby to stay calm in the pandemic while i worked on "summer of soul." i've worked on like five things and this is like one of the last things i worked on during the pandemic. >> some people learned to bake bread, you did this. >> exactly. i wasn't baking bread, i was making bread. >> well said. so tell us where -- you traced the history here, tell us where hip-hop is now. >> you know what i still joke with myself that if adults are jarred or somewhat they don't understand it, then, yes, then it's right where it should be. you know, because i think when something becomes like your

parents' music, it might have a jump the chart moment, and the spirit of hip-hop is still alive and will continue on and then i'm sure after generation alpha, there will be another music art form that we will. i'm almost expecting that for white noise to be the new thing, the way that andre 3,000 is going like a more primitive expression. i fully support that. >> nobody understands music better than you. we have to give a shoutout to a guy we were talking about in the break, ralph mcdaniels. i grew up in new jersey, there's no other way to see video than a couple radio stations. >> video music box. >> video music box helped bring that culture across the river into the world. >> even before you owned the tv, raps. i lived in philadelphia so even a short proximity in new york. had friends and cousins up here that would make tapes so i could

watch it. ralph mcdaniels, the person that's showing you these groups, the audio too and jvc force like these groups that you never heard of that were making these life changing classics, and, you know, especially that period between like '85 and '95, like that's when the rules were written, rewritten, and basically run our lives now. i love ralph mcdaniels. >> i love him too. shoutout to ralph mcdaniels. at some point hip-hop culture became american culture. >> it starts off as a subculture and dangerous culture. >> i've got to congratulate you on ten years of "the tonight show." so much of what you guys do is musical. congratulations on that. the new book "hip-hop is history" is on sale now.

"new york times" best selling author, grammy and academy award winner. did i get all of it, quest? >> i think so. some of them. >> let me ask you about the wordle today, is it hard or easy? it's been ridiculous lately. >> i have not been in the wordle group. stephanie is in my wordle group. >> congrats on the book, hip-hop is history is available now. that does it for us this morning. ana cabrera picks up the coverage right now. right now on "ana cabrera reports," back to the scene of the crime. that is how former house speaker nancy pelosi is frame k donald trump's first visit to capitol hill since the january 6th riot are. what's on his agenda with republican lawmakers and who's staying away? plus, nearby, the supreme court is preparing to drop decisions this hour, the cases we could get today on hugely consequential issues from presidential immunity to abortion access. and