that's going to do it for me. i am charles coleman junior in fort jonathan capehart. thanks for watching the saturday show. make sure you tune in tomorrow for the sunday show. i will be back and joined by california congressman jared huffman on the democratic effort to take on project 2025, the far right's vision for the future as well as pennsylvania congressman -- congresswoman madeleine dean. e dean. weeally k that children high-profile executive and his wife shot to death in beverly hills. we don't really think that children can murder their parents. you have to have a lot of evil and you to shoot your mom and dad. >> young, r rich, handsome, and case made for hollywood, they

were ready for the cameras. it was the first televiseda courtroom drama that captivated the united states. it was a huge deal. spoke erik and lyle menendez convicted of murdering their own parents. >> i shut my mom. >> it wasn't real. it just wasn't real. >> they are sociopaths. and big ones. >> chilling details. a letter ending in secrets, too dark to imagine. >> this is so out of the norm. >> did they kill in cold blood? or in crippling fear? >> it was gut wrenching. >> they spoke the truth about what happened. >> here from the brothers themselves. >> let's go through this bit by bit. >> there was no way he was going to let this secret get out. silence destroyed our s whole family.

. symbol of their success. here ait was, the shining symbol of their success. here finally an address for the of their long struggle, their amazing rise, beverly hills, california. careful what you wish for. all these years later, it's still the case that has the power to shock. >> it's beverly hills, the movie business, kids going to paris -- parents. >> what possessed those handsome young men who had been given everything? >> they got pretty much what they wanted. >> why did they give back murder? >> how do you plead? >> not guilty. >> there is with the case to usher in wall-to-wall tv coverage, even before oj. >> i was just firing as i went into the room.

>> the kind of horror you couldn't stop watching. >> what was in front of you? >> my parents. >> you will hear the real story told by the investigators. >> his face was disfigured from the shotgun blast that he took to the back of the head. >> by the young men themselves. the real-life details of the defense that shocked america. >> we would be in the bathroom and he would put me on my knees. >> is he telling the truth or not? >> we will ask the brother at the center of it all about truth. >> to this day i'm still dealing with the controversy of it. obviously, my own guilt and what happened. >> what really happened? and why? so, to understand, where to begin, how about here, illinois,

1940s. everybody who knows this story knows her as kitty but that wasn't really her name. >> no, it was mary louise. >> the baby of the family, said her older sister. it was one of their brothers who came up with the nickname that stuck for life. >> how did she get to be known as kitty? >> when brian went out to get her for dinner one night or something and he said, here kitty kitty kitty and she came. >> when kitty was three, her dad left the family for another family. as the little girl watched her mother struggle, she imagined a way she could do better. >> she grumbling she was going to marry well and have household help. macau wish you know? >> that's probably what my mother had it maybe wanted for herself and never got. >> kitty was pretty. in 1962 she was crowned miss oaklawn. should be in show business, her mother told her, so kitty studied radio and television at southern illinois university.

was that wrapped up in the whole idea of, if you are in that field, you are more likely to meet a successful man? >> absolutely. >> and college she met jose menendez. he fled coming from cuba at 16 with bolded dreams of striking it big in business. just the kind of man kitty was searching for. and so they married in 1963. >> they were stars in our family. >> diane hernandez was kitty's knees and lived with kitty and jose for a few years. >> i was the daughter kitty never had appeared >> kitty and jose had sons, lyle and erik . >> did they seem to get along? >> absolutely. i think erik depended on lyle a lot. >> erik was quite introverted. >> ellen anderson was kitty's nephew.

he spent a couple of summers with the menendez family and bonded with lyle. >> he was a mischievous boy to say the least. he liked to smile and laugh and giggle. he loved to laugh and giggle. >> what the brothers did most was practice, and practice, and practice. >> jose wanted his kids to be the best in sports. >> swimming, soccer, tennis. jose pushed his kids to excel at everything, as his own career skyrocketed. in the 70s, jose was the general manager at hertz and impressed his sons by bringing the company's famous spokesman, oj simpson, home to dinner. >> jose was living the american dream and he wanted his voice to compare and discontinue that american dream. >> in 1986, jose took a job with carol cope pictures in los angeles the company that produced basic instinct and the rambo series.

carol cole had just bought a video distribution company from a man named noah bloom. they gave jose the job of running it. >> 1989 will be a tremendous year. will be popular as a company. >> that was the year when robert ran and went to las vegas to cover a tradeshow for the home video business. he happened to meet jose menendez. what was your impression? >> talked to him and he seemed professional and dynamic. >> a high-powered career, beautiful family, and finally, the one missing piece of jose's american dream, the perfect home. jose moved his family from calabasas to a more tony address. john was with her sister the day the realtor called kitty. >> they accepted jose's offer and kitty, you got your jet --

z.i.p. code. that made her so happy. >> 90210. >> absolutely. >> 722 north elm drive, a six bedroom mediterranean-style home swimming pool, guesthouse, tennis court. elton john once lived in this very house. so did the saudi prince, and even prince himself. by august 1989, jose had truly made it. now to ensure his sons did too. by then lyle was a student at winston. younger brother was going to ucla in the fall, so perfect. so, why did diane feel this way? >> i know this sounds crazy, but unless i am crazy, somebody who is really close to me is going to die and it's going to be horrible. >> horrible? that it certainly was.

coming up, something chilling in the den. >> the first thing i noticed was jose menendez seated on the couch. it was grotesque what happened. >> questions from the very beginning. >> we didn't see any shotgun shells. somebody collected the shotgun shells. somebody that didn't want to fingerprints on the shotgun shells. >> when dateline continues. af than tylenol rapid release gels because advil targets pain at the source of inflammation. so for faster pain relief, advil the pain away.

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of 7 moisturizers and 3 vitamins. for all your skins, gold bond. introducing new advil targeted relief. the only topical pain reliever with 4 powerful pain-fighting ingredients that start working on contact to target tough pain at the source. for up to 8 hours of powerful relief. new advil targeted relief. for up to 8 hours of [eerie music]ef. it was august 20, 1989, just before midnight. it was august 20th, 1989, just before midnight. a 911 operator picked up a call from an apparently hysterical young man. his name was lyle menendez. detective zoeller. keith morrison: les zoeller was a detective back then.

one of a grand total of two detectives in the beverly hills police department solar was a detective back then, one of the grand total of two detectives in the beverly hills police department who worked homicides. how many murders occurred in beverly hills in those days? >> in those days, two a year. >> detectives elder was asleep that august night on his boss called. >> he said, come in, we had a murder. and i asked him, for some information and he said, he gave me the address of 722 north elm. >> zoeller drove to the mansion, walked inside. >> it was you really quiet and when i went into the den library first thing i noticed was jose menendez seated on the couch. he was slumped to one side, his hip to one side. >> it was bad, very bad.

>> i could tell his face was disfigured from the shotgun blast that he took to the back of the head. he was wearing shorts and he had shotgun blast to his thigh, bloodsoaked, all the way down to the white couch and then i noticed his wife kitty had his feet on the floor. >> she was curled into the fetal position and like her husband, had been shot many times, several times in her knee, and most horribly. kitty was shot point blank in the face. >> shotgun killings are very messy and there were brains and blood everywhere. >> back then, pamela was an l.a. county prosecutor and the organized crime unit, but nothing prepared for this. jose and kitty had been riddled with 15 shots, one image in particular lives with her still. >> there was a contact wound on the menendez his face. it blew out her i. it was grotesque what happened to her.

>> and appeared hose and kitty had been relaxing in the den. an empty bowl of cream and berries and erik's ucla paperwork were on the coffee table. the television set was on . there was no indication of a break in, but something did stand out to detective zoeller. >> we didn't see any shotgun shells. somebody collected the shells. >> who does a thing like that if they have a messy crime scene? >> somebody that didn't want fingerprints on the shotgun shells pick. >> lyle menendez, then 21, and erik, 18 , went to the station to speak to police. >> they said they were in and out throughout the day and as evening approached, they decided they wanted to go to the movies. they wanted to see a james bond movie, but it was sold out, so they saw the batman movie, which they had both seen before. they decided to see that again.

>> curious. after the movie they told the detectives they planned to meet a friend for a drink at the cheesecake factory. they had to go back to the house to pick up erik's fake i.d. when they walked in, they saw a haze in the air. smelled gunpowder , went into the den, and then dialed 911. >> someone called my parents. >> the news spread quickly. >> i got a phone call from my brother, and i remember putting the phone down on the table and walking around the house screaming. >> robert ran's phone also rang. it was a friend who attended the las vegas tradeshow 10 days earlier. >> do remember that guy jose menendez? the guy you met briefly last week? and i said, sure. and he said, he and his wife were blown away last night in beverly hills. >> now, that, thought rand, was a story tailor-made for the miami community he was writing

for. a rags to riches story captive by murder. he worked the phones and met up with jose's sister, who told him. >> the family was so close, loving, they did everything together. you have to interview erik and lyle. i said, of course. >> as you would find, getting to the brothers was not so easy, but then they just lost their parents. >> lyle and erik were the grieving sons. >> ellen abraham is a journalism professor at usc back in 1989 he was a reporter for the l.a. times. >> nobody quite knew who had killed the parents. was it because of jose's position in business or had he been taken up by the mob? >> after all, both hose and kitty had been shot in the knees, a mafia signature, perhaps? but then there was the company he was running. live entertainment distributed all kinds of movies including children's movies. but it got its start in .

>> a lot of pornography is organized crime back. it's a great way to make money. an industry that is not very well regarded. >> and there was actually a homicide in the valley a few weeks before they were murdered and jose mentioned to his sons, this is what happens. this guy was in the pornography business, and he was murdered. >> plus, jose was not to be aggressive when it came to business. and investigators found two rifles in his bedroom. was jose worried someone might come after him? could lyle and erik be next? the brothers hired bodyguards and in an interview, erik menendez voiced his suspicion. >> noel bloom sounds like the most logical possibility. >> noel bloom, founder of the

company jose was running. and an unapologetic distributor of adult entertainment. them in his voice were not alone in their suspicion about noel bloom . coming up, rivals at the office. was that a motive for murder? you didn't kill jose menendez? >> absolutely not. >> noel bloom speaks then and now. >> were you waiting for somebody to call you to be taken and put in handcuffs? >> yes. >> when dateline continues. lin but torque gets you going. ♪ ♪ [ engine revving ] oh now we're torquin'! the dodge hornet r/t. the totally torqued-out crossover. when i was diagnosed with h-i-v, i didn't know who i would be. but here i am... being me. keep being you... and ask your healthcare provider about the number one prescribed h-i-v treatment, biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in many people whether you're 18 or 80.

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[theme music] [dramatic music] kitty menendez shot this home video in august 1989, kitty menendez shot this home video in august 1989 capturing images of what looked like a happy family. 12 days later, kitty and her husband's murders were front- page news. >> it was a big story because

it happened in beverly hills california. >> the big story became a big problem for carol coe pictures. >> the company was getting beat up in the media because all the media stories were, this was a mafia hit. somehow related to shady dealings. >> carol coe hired a publicist to help calm the media storm. sylvester stallone spoke warmly of jose. >> he was a true cornerstone of the company, which i love. >> jose's memorial service was held at the directors guild of america headquarters on sunset boulevard. all of which might have led people to believe he was a beloved hollywood insider. the reality was, jose menendez was really not known in the hollywood community at all, and most of the people at this memorial trouble he had never heard of him. lyle and erik arrived late to the service in a chauffeured limousine. basement the night before in the ultra chic hotel bel air.

>> how did they behave when they were there? >> lyle menendez was very cool, calm and collected. >> katie's sister was at the memorial too and heard something disturbing about jose. >> several men that worked with jose talked to me at that memorial service and told me how he loved to humiliate other men. >> pretty shocking to hear a somebodies memorial service. >> yeah. not very memorial. >> so, jose made enemies. the brothers confirmed it and knew where to point the finger. they indicated that their father was involved in some shady business contacts and one in particular was a gentleman by the name of noel bloom. >> that name again. noel bloom had founded the company that became known as live entertainment, and then wound up working uncomfortably with jose.

>> they bicker about a lot of things. >> mostly because of the pornography. jose didn't like that at all. >> did it seem to you that there was a motive? >> possible. >> we found this tape of bloom deep in the nbc archives. >> you didn't kill jose menendez? >> absolutely night. >> wondered what he had to say all these years later. what are you doing with yourself now? >> i'm retired. force retirement. >> but your resume? your resume a special. >> yeah, it can scare people. >> noel bloom, known as a kingpin in the pornography trade with alleged tides to east coast mobsters. >> people had a perception that people in the adult business or in organized crime, which is not true. at least i wasn't. >> were some of the people you were associated with numbers? >> a couple in new york that i

believe were. >> in the 1970s, he was one of the biggest pornography producers in the country, that he made an unlikely turn. distributing children's programming, care bears, for example. along the way, you encountered this guy jose menendez. >> unfortunately. >> what was he like? >> jose can be very sweet, smile at you, even charming. but, he was very ruthless. he would scream at people. if he fired somebody, you would hear him laughing like it was a big joke. >> jose fight with his own family too, said noel bloom. spoke >> she would go to his office and yell and scream and holler. really loud. >> they would argue a lot? >> yeah, and i think a lot of it was about the kids. >> what was your impression of them? >> they were quiet.

they were friendly but a bit troubled. i know they were afraid of him. >> afraid of their father, jose. >> i saw him just stare them down a couple of times. >> after jose was murdered, lyle and erik seemed to be afraid of noel bloom. they told police they thought bloom may have killed their parents and might want to kill them, too. bloom had been arrested before on obscenity charges but never convicted. still, with the brothers public accusations, he was nervous. >> you were waiting for somebody to call you and be taken in and put in handcuffs? >> yes. >> the cups -- cups would be calling but the investigation would take a turn, one that no one expected. coming up, new questions about the case. >> it wasn't an organized crime unit. >> and about the grieving sons. >> the way he was spending money was a very strange. >> you begin to see a pattern here and begin to think of

greed. >> when dateline continues. dat billy: one second, grandma. this guy is going to buy my car. okay? grandma: you need carvana... entering plate number... grandma: no accidents, right? billy: no. grandma: generating offer... carvana can pick it up tomorrow! billy: that's an amazing offer. announcer: sell your car the easy way with carvana. [♪♪] your skin is ever-changing, take care of it with gold bond's age renew formulations of 7 moisturizers and 3 vitamins. for all your skins, gold bond. introducing new advil targeted relief. the only topical pain reliever with 4 powerful pain-fighting ingredients that start working on contact to target tough pain at the source. for up to 8 hours of powerful relief. new advil targeted relief.

eight people including two children have been wounded in a mass shooting at a splash park and rochester hills, michigan. please say the government use a semi automatic handgun and fired nearly 30 rounds. he fled the scene and was later found dead due to a solvent elected gunshot wound. kate middleton, the princess of wells made her first public appearance saturday. she attended the ceremony for king charles official birthday parade. that was her first official appearance since revealing her cancer diagnosis early this year. for now, back to dateline. in the weeks after the menendez murders, one name, one whispered suspicion, noel bloom. >> i got a call from the police

department, they wanted to meet with me and ask questions. i said, i have been waiting. >> that meeting was about all it took. >> he was very cooperative and we could determine he had a motive at all. >> so, noel bloom was no longer a suspect. and the rumored mafia connection to the crime, not a chance. >> the number of shots would tell you that it wasn't an organized crime head. they were torn apart. if you think about what the media portrays or hollywood portrays as a mob hit, --. it would be a 22 or 830 into the back of the head. >> but, the knee capping, missing shell taking -- casings. it was staged to look like a mob hit. hours after the murders, detective zoeller look at the scene puzzled, and right around that time, lyle showed up at the house.

>> we want to get our tennis equipment, he said. and i said, where is that? it's in the library where my parents were murdered. >> what was their demeanor? >> he was matter-of-fact and didn't seem very upset to me. >> then zoeller learned something very odd. lyle and erik went to the bank days after the murders. they were looking for jose's safety deposit box, trying to find the family will. did that surprise you? >> definitely. >> why would the brothers worry about the will? zoeller learned that jose had threatened to disinherit them. lyle had been caught cheating at princeton, erik fought with his father over tennis. but there was a bigger issue, too. >> in the first house they took the whole safety the second house they got into the safe. >> lyle and erik had

burglarized the homes of their friends will be parents . one of the burglaries was in the exclusive community of hidden hills. >> it was just because we can do it. look what we can do. >> of the time, jose hired a prominent criminal attorney, arranged for the younger brother erik to take the fall. >> he was a minor and knowing he probably wouldn't get jail time, and part of the disposition was that he contact a therapist. incomes jerry owes il. >> dr. jerome, beverly hills psychologist who specialized in phobias, sexual therapy. therapy and no jail time for the burglaries. but were they written out of the will? they finally did get a hold of it and discovered jose had not disinherited them after all. so now they stood to inherit the family's $14 million estate. and what the brothers did after

the murders shocked the whole country. >> they were spending, spending, spending. >> three rolex watches, a private tennis coach for erik , a porsche. lyle even bought a chicken wings restaurant. >> i love to shop but i think i might even wait a day or two. >> lyle went to visit his cousin in chicago after the murders. >> he ordered the most expensive shirts i have ever seen. he ordered some jewelry, and shoes. i was like, wow, the way he was spending money, for me, was very strange. >> but, two other relatives, it was just lyle and erik doing what they always did. lyle was a grieving, said cousin diane. >> people would ask, people were like, what is he doing? i would defend him and say, everybody reacts differently when somebody dies. this is just his way of coping, i guess. >> their casual behavior after the murders, the hunt for the

will of the spending spree, none of it was criminal, but it certainly caught the attention of the prosecutor. >> you begin to see a pattern and begin to think of greed. >> but to police, lyle and erik kept repeating the same story they told the cops the night of the murders. they had no idea what happened. >> were they believable in those conversations? >> yes. >> didn't seem to be lying or --? >> they answered our questions willingly. >> maybe they were spoiled and self-centered, but it was a long way from that to killing their parents. except, another interview was coming, one that would reveal so much more. menendez spe aks coming up, i have never seen my dad helpless. >> and emotional erik menendez speaks out about his father, family, and a killer script. >> the story was about a young

man who murders his parents and inherits $157 million. >> when dateline continues. climax re. but this is my story. ( ♪♪ ) and with once-daily trelegy, it can still be beautiful. because with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler, trelegy keeps my airways open for a full 24 hours and prevents future flare-ups. trelegy also improves lung function, so i can breathe more freely all day and night. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. ♪ what a wonderful world ♪ [laughing] ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for copd because breathing should be beautiful,

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ic] [pensive music] reporter robert rand had been working the menendez story hard. reporter robert rand had been working the menendez story hard. he was writing a biography of jose menendez, but he could not complete it without talking to two people, jose's sons, lyle and erik , the brothers that had blown him off for several weeks. finally come on october 20th, 1989, exactly 2 months after the murders, rand got his shot. >> i showed up at the mansion at during the afternoon and a young woman answered the door and she said, erik and lyle are out playing tennis . they will be back at some point. >> the woman invited him into tour the house. >> in front of me is the room, the room where jose and kitty menendez were killed. and i had a chill up my spine.

i felt creeped out. >> he waited. and they arrived eventually. >> they came bouncing in the house wearing tennis whites, looking tan, they were laughing and joking. >> as if nothing had happened. >> and i'm torn up inside and thinking to myself, i wouldn't be anywhere near this house if my parents had been killed here. >> rand pulled out his tip recorded in notepad but lyle stopped him. >> he said, hang on, we don't want to do the interview today. we would just like to meet you and get to know your. >> the brothers had flaked on him before. he was annoyed but obliged. they chatted informally and made plans to meet later that he -- weekend for an official interview. but when rand arrived. >> lyle left for new york. he had up problem with his restaurant in princeton. >> erik was home, and this time he was willing to talk. >> erik was emotionally appropriate, he would cry at

times, and he was telling really lovely stories about how wonderful his parents were. >> just an incredible man and people were afraid of him. they would know that this man was more powerful. this meant more intelligent. >> erik said his father wanted to get into politics. >> he was going to become senator of florida and spent his life making cuba a territory of the united states. >> now with his father's death, erik said he and his brother wanted to fulfill his father's dream. >> i want to become senator of florida and my brother wants to become president of the united states. >> then the mood shifted. erik described what he saw when he walked into the family done on august 20th. >> they weren't real. they looked like wax. it was something that i had never seen my dad helpless. i think that possibly, if lyle

and i wouldn't have been home, we would have been able to do something about it. maybe. maybe my dad would be alive. i definitely would give my life for my dads. >> and this was curious, erik also told rand about a screenplay written called friends. >> the story was about a young man who murders his parents and inherits $157 million. >> fancy that. erik wrote the screenplay with a close friend named craig. when detective zoeller interviewed craig, he learned that he and erik often fantasized about committing the perfect crime, which in there screenplay became the story of a man killing his parents and evading police. >> they thought about the perfect crime, and hear their parents are murdered and we don't have a suspect yet. it's looking like the perfect crime to me at that point. >> zoeller began to wonder if erik's fantasy could be playing out in reality.

and then craig told zoeller about his visit to the menendez house after the murders. >> do you want to know what happened? and he described shooting the parents and then he summed it all up by saying it could happen. and craig thought about it and he says, is he saying that's what he thinks happened here at the house? or did they actually commit the crime? >> strange. as was the story the brothers told about discovering their parents bodies. >> they said they saw this haze in the air and some that they smelled. >> like gunpowder. >> but that dissipates pretty darn quick. the officers got there right after they did and they didn't smell anything. >> the gunpowder and fantasizing about the perfect crime and the screenplay and even what might be called a

confession all lead detective zoeller to start thinking the unthinkable that the brothers had murdered their mom and dad. and he wondered, what erik tell the story of the shooting to craig again? this time on tape? >> they decided to wire up craig and go to this restaurant. t this time, erik wasn't at all talkative. >> erik didn't admit anything. i think his conscience said, you better not talk too much about this. >> not that day, anyway, and not to craig. but erik did talk , eventually. and what he said would change everything. everything. she heard him say, "why did you tell him?" coming up, lyle burst into the room, she heard him say why did you tell him? >> the explosive secret hidden until now. >> could you believe it? >> no. it was absolutely devastating, shocking, beyond words.

>> when dateline continues. dates asn't been pretty. it's tough to breathe and tough to keep wondering if this is as good as it gets. but trelegy has shown me that there's still beauty and breath to be had. because with three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy keeps my airways open and prevents future flare-ups. and with one dose a day, trelegy improves lung function so i can breathe more freely all day and night. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. ♪ what a wonderful world ♪ ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for copd because breathing should be beautiful.

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i think that this product is a game changer for my patients. [dramatic music] detective les zoeller had a very disturbing suspicion, detective zoeller had a very disturbing suspicion that lyle and erik menendez had shot gunned their parents to death in the den of their beverly hills mansion. and then one day he just knew. was there a particular time when you thought, okay, it's them? >> well, when we got a call from jude law smith. >> on him he never heard before. >> what did she have to tell you? >> real purpose was to talk about this dr. and how he was her therapist and he was having an affair with her. >> not relevant information to a homicide detective, but this was. >> what was his first name? >> dr. jerry oh zeal.

>> the psychologist erik was sent to after those burglaries. two months after the murders, judy said she was with the doctor when erik menendez called to schedule an emergency session. smith wouldn't talk to us for this report but she did back then. and here's what she told us what he said after getting the call. >> he's saying, i hope i'm not going to hear what i hear what i'm going to hear. >> dr. oh zeal was worried about what might happen at this session. and so he asked her to stay in the waiting room of his office while he met with erik on october 31st 1989. she also told zoeller that from the waiting room she overheard erik tell dr. oziel the very thing investigators had suspected for months , but couldn't prove. >> erik said that they shot their parents. and dr. oziel

says, we need to call your brother and have him come over here right away. >> lyle menendez had been at the elm drive home passing out candy to trick or treaters rushed over to dr. oziel's office . >> lyle burst into the room. >> he told zoeller she heard lyle confront his brother. >> and she heard him say, why did you tell him? we have to kill him now. >> seriously? >> yes. and, erica said i can't kill anymore, and he burst into tears and left. lyle and dr. oziel followed him and lyle got to the elevator and dr. oziel said, and i in danger? and lyle said, have a good life, dr. oziel. and it freaked him out. >> what followed was a strange and nervous dance. oziel told lyle and erik to come back for follow-up there

be sessions. the brothers afraid he might go to the police agreed. during one of those sessions, they both confessed to killing their parents. and oziel recorded the conversation. jude smith learned about the recording and told detectives who promptly seized the tape. just one problem, they weren't allowed to listen to it because if doctor-patient privilege. >> how frustrating was that? >> very frustrating. a good piece of evidence i couldn't even listen to. >> even though investigators didn't know whether they had ever get to play that tape in court, they thought they had enough evidence to arrest the brothers. >> -- march 8th, 1980. >> the august murders of his mother and father. >> erik was playing at an instrument in israel at the time. >> erik menendez is being sought by detectives at this

apartment. >> he surrendered three days later. >> could you believe it? >> no. no. it was absolutely devastating, shocking, just beyond words. >> former l.a. times reporter alan abrahams and. >> would imagine these two young men of privilege, position and power to be could kill their parents? that is the kind of stuff that shakespeare wrote about. >> and yet it seems that's exactly what happened. a few weeks after the arrests, detective zoeller confirmed another tip. >> jude law said the guns were purchased at eight gun store in san diego. i was looking through gun records and i said, this is it. >> the name on the sale was an old friend of liles from princeton. the friend was not even in california when the guns were purchased. and he was missing his i.d.

>> we learned later that lyle had taken the wallet. >> it seems like overwhelming evidence that lyle and erik killed their parents. the news rocketed around the country, much of the world. >> the sons themselves shot gunned their own parents in their own home pick >> two rich kids from beverly hills, coddled, spoiled, greedy, and murdered their own parents in cold blood. actually planted. tried to make it look like a mob hit, use stolen i.d. to buy the guns, tried to get away with it. and after, when a lavish nation wide spending spree, public judgment came harsh and fast. >> how do you plead? >> not guilty. >> they were smirking and smug. people were not predisposed to think kindly of erik and lyle menendez. >> media feasted on the story of the rich brothers who killed their parents for the $14 million estate.

hard to overstate the public's discussed with those young men, but on the other side of the country in an upscale new jersey town just a few miles from princeton, people began comparing memories. >> their home at the time was a tudor style home on a lake. >> this is the home where lila and erik grew up , where bill curtin was a young tennis coach when he met jose menendez. he was certainly impressed. >> there were two clear sides of him, one was the very friendly outgoing joking person , the flipside was, how driven and controlled he was. >> jose engaged bill to teach his son lyle and then watch the lessons. but didn't just watch. >> he would physically come onto the tennis court and start giving instruction to lyle while i was still there. that was very strange, and very uncomfortable. >> only much later did bill learn jose had hired several coaches for lyle.

the 10-year-old was working hours every day to learn tennis. >> he was incredibly quiet, especially when jose was present . >> neighborhood memories about as successful but slightly imposing family. >> everyone seemed to look up to them, but not draw closer to them. >> alicia herz was a friend and neighbor of the menendez family. >> the minute they would come into a room, they took the air out. somehow. and we were all, you know, very, very careful. >> what would you be careful? >> he tended, when he drank a little bit too much, to become very derogatory of other people. >> o. >> people didn't want to be embarrassed by him. >> he might be the next target. >> you might be the next target, yes. >> did you see any examples?

>> many. >> that menendez house. >> it was covered with a shield, like impenetrable. >> alicia wasn't just a neighbor . she was lyle's ninth grade spanish teacher, the exclusive instant day school pick >> with a good student? >> he tried to be but he was not particularly talented at the language. >> once she caught lyle cheating, and she said, erik cheated, too. >> i think teachers understood deep down inside what they were going there. >> that they were being pressured from their parents to perform while. and to alicia seem to be taking a toll on lyle. she remembers more than once seeing lyle outside her office, staring blankly. >> i wish to this day that i had gotten out and said, please come in. please come in. >> did you talk to katie?

or jose? >> i didn't reveal anything to them. no. not anything that could get them in trouble. >> of the young boys alicia remembered were no adults and in serious trouble, charged with killing the parents who expected so much from them. but there story of why they did it, the family and the rest of america speechless. coming up, the battle begins with a powerful new ally standing by the brothers. >> how does he walk into a room with a shotgun? this kid? it doesn't add up. i'm totally puzzled. >> watching her in court is like watching great theater. when dateline continues. da. k d by a heart valve problem,... ...we're going for a better treatment than warfarin. eliquis. eliquis reduces stroke risk. and has less major bleeding. over 97% of eliquis patients did not experience a stroke.

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>> bloodsoaked. >> i had a chill up my spine. >> could you believe the? >> no. it was devastating beyond words. >> the question? what drove them to kill. >> how does a walk and a shot -- in a room with a shotgun. his kid? >> the dark secret was about to come to light? >> i told him i don't want to do this. >> something horrible is going on in the family. >> i wanted to bust the door down and say what's going on here? lyle and erik menendez have been charged with the unthinkable. murdering their mother and father. alicia, there former neighbor and teacher recall two young boys whose parents seemed formidable even to adults. many others set alicia, she was careful around jose and kitty

menendez. there was one episode she found too disturbing to ignore. a dinner to party at the menendez home. jose said he brought back a vhs tape from a trip to brazil. >> i have to show you guys this. it's so unique and so he puts it in and i don't remember the name. >> she said the film showed and adults engaging in sex acts in front of children. >> we saw a few seconds of it, a few minutes, and we meet excuses, a lot of us stood up and said we have to leave. we couldn't stand to see it. >> jose found this engaging? >> hysterically funny. >> these stories had been buried for years. until the songs were charged with murder. she signed on to defend them. veteran criminal defense attorney leslie abramson known for her brash style in the

courtroom and with the press. >> you want that? >> reporter robert rand who wrote a book on the case called the passionate devotion to her clients. >> have never seen anybody with a powerful is the a and some. watching her in court was like watching great theater. >> this old interview, she described how her defense strategy began to take shape. >> i am hearing a lot of negative and heavily psychologically abusive things, but it's not answering, what is wrong with this kid? he is incredibly sweet. how does he walk in a room with a shotgun? this kid. it does not add up. i am totally puzzled and that's when i bring in. >> the doctor, forensic psychologist and a graduate of harvard law school agreed to meet with the brothers in jail. he knew going in that police believe lyle and derek killed their parents for money. >> based upon the dozens of

parasite cases i had work done in the past, this is the exception and not the rule. the rule is something horrible is going on in the family. >> something was going on in the menendez family. something very secret, but, what was it? >> coming up. no evidence seen on television for the first time. a letter from lyle to erik hinting at the horrors in that house. >> we cannot go down the hall when jose was with the kids. >> kitty didn't either? >> no. >> it was gut wrenching. daddy don't hit me. that kind of stuff. >> when dateline continues. c and longer-lasting relief than tylenol rapid release gels because advil targets pain at the source of inflammation. so for faster pain relief, advil the pain away.

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lyle and erik menendez, the boys from beverly hills, sat in jail, charged with the shotgun murders of their parents, and the great wheel lyle and erik menendez, the boys from beverly hills sat in jail charged with the shotgun murders of their parents. when the great wheel of justice ground slow. the main issue was that the confession tape admissible or should doctor-patient privilege keep it out? arguing went all the way to the highest court of california. >> it sat around for a couple of years waiting for the supreme court to rule. >> during which the brothers resided at the men's central jail, lyle slipped his brother

a letter. dateline absent obtained a copy. lyle wrote about their father in the murders. keyboard two brilliant children only two they carry his name and his pride. we did not do anything for the money. it went down. we alone know the truth. we alone know the secrets of our family's past. i do not look forward to broadcasting them around the country. i pray that it never has to happen. secrets. at this point even leslie abramson no none of them. lyle and derek revealed nothing. not to abramson and not to the forensic psychiatrist she hired william vicary. >> what struck me was how together the older brother was. he was articulate. he made good eye contact. he had very thoughtful, organized answers.

>> erik on the other hand seemed broken. >> he very rarely made eye contact. he was biting his fingernails. i was thinking in my head, boy, i sure hope i get to work with the older brother and not the younger brother because it will be a piece a cake with the older brother. >> after a few sessions would lyle, dr. vicary hit a wall and moved on to erik who month after month seem to stick to a kind of script about his wonderful father. his loving family. >> the minute something would leak out about maybe things weren't so wonderful in the family, he would start crying. he would kinda dissolve and whimper and he wouldn't go any further. >> he put erik on antidepressants and slowly a trust began to form.

>> as months rolled by, i got more and more pieces of information, and it got worse and worse and worse as to what was going on in the family until finally the dam broke. >> erik and lyle's cousin had lived with the family and knew the public did not understand. >> they knew, we have these rich kids. shut their parents. now they are multimillionaires. that is not the case. >> alan began thinking back to disturbing things he had witness at the menendez house. >> he would take there heads and push them underwater until they started panicking. and he would let them up again. >>'s way of teaching is quite young boys to swim. what did kitty seem to think? >> if jose did it for said it, there was no questioning it. absolutely none. >> not by the boys. not by kitty.

>> she became like his right hand man enforcing things. >> including what diane and alan came to know is the single most important ruling in the menendez house. >> you cannot go down the hall when jose is with his kids. >> kitty didn't either? >> no. >> but they did hear things. >> i have heard them being whipped. it was gut wrenching. the screams and the daddy don't hit me. daddy don't. that kind of stuff. >> a disturbing series of stories that to the defense begin to explain what the young men did to their parents. how do you get from disturbing stories to a double murder? their brothers lawyers began to connect the dots. the defense would be unique. and daring. >> coming up. the prosecution versus defense. the fireworks were about to begin. >> i felt the brothers were

evil but not as bad as she was.

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doc? even before the menendez brothers went on trial, the defense scored a big victory. the california supreme court ruled that the confession tape made by dr. oziel even before the menendez brothers went on trial, the defense scored a big victory. the california supreme court ruled that the confession tape made by doctor oziel could not be presented as evidence. the defense conceded that they killed their parents. nearly four years after the murders, july 1993, if

convicted here, lyle and erik could face the death penalty. there judge had already presided over high-profile cases, notably the rodney king beating case whose results sparked the l.a. riots. the judge ruled each brother would have his own jury and? >> if the electronic media that wants access to the courtroom -- >> he allowed cameras in the courtroom. >> the idea there was a camera in a courtroom in california was so new, so novel. >> this reporter wants an attorney himself cover the trial for the l.a. times. >> you aren't just playing to the jury but to all of america. >> the judgment ski decision turned a local story to an international sensation. how big was it? the menendez trial was the case that put an entire network, court tv, on the broadcast landscape.

the prosecutor knew all of america was watching her every move. how did you feel issue prepared to make your opening statement? >> all the cameras were there. i just threw up because i thought, this is stressful. >> what's more? the prosecutor was going up against two fierce opponents. leslie abramson defending erik and jill, defending lyle. these are three smart, strong women. >> definitely. >> engaged against each other over these boys. >> yes. >> i say boys but they weren't really at all. >> that's what the defense wanted everybody to hear. these poor boys. these orphans. >> orphans. the defense tried to play that up. leslie abramson wrapped her arms around their shoulders. had them treat their dapper suits for preppy sweaters. >> everything jill and leslie

did was deliberate and calculated. >> the prosecutor steeled herself, determined not to let the optics distract the jury. >> based upon this evidence it will become apparent that this murder was unlawful, unjustified, and wholly premeditated. >> in basic english, the prosecution's case was this. just the facts, ma'am. >> lyle and erik driving down to san diego two days before the murders to buy shotguns and with a stolen i.d. >> why are you using fake i.d.? because you know you will use the gun to be doing something you should not be doing. that's evidence of intent. >> after the murders, prosecution showed the brothers lied to the police for months starting from the very moment that lyle called 911. >> someone killed my parents. >> they did it all for the family fortune the state said. lyle and erik search for the

will just days after their parents murders and went on a multistate spending spree. >> they were aggressive about spending money as soon as possible which i thought was very strange. >> it was pretty obvious the prosecutor said, first-degree murder, and they did it for the money. >> at the end of the prosecution case, thought they are so guilty it's not funny. >> then there was her. >> we had a joke. investigator, myself, and my cocounsel. the joke was you have a gun in two bullets and you go in the courtroom. who do you shoot? both guys say they would shoot lyle and erik. my thing was i will shoot leslie twice. i felt the brothers were evil, but not as bad as she was. >> abramson had a reputation for doing whatever it took.

she had an unusual strategy for defending the brothers. the law known as imperfect self- defense. >> that is to say, under all the circumstances it was reasonable to the person to think they were acting in self- defense but the reality is that was not the case at all. >> in other words, honest but reasonable belief that one's life is in danger. the defense argued the brothers were not spoiled but were damaged. subject to years of abuse that made the decision to kill their parents seemed to them like an act of self-defense against imminent danger. if the jury agreed, the menendez brothers would get manslaughter instead of murder. >> our witnesses will paint a portrait of jose m mary louise as parents that will make understandable to you how they could have died at the hands of their children. what they did to their children to bring this about. >> the parents were as much on

trial as lyle and erik menendez run trial. while the prosecution tried to stick to a just the facts narrative. the defense strategy was emotion, emotion, emotion. >> the defense called teachers and coaches, family members to testify about emotional and physical abuse. one of them was cousin alan. >> would you say bruce's? >> yes. above their thigh area. >> and then cousin diane took the stand. here came the most explosive issue of the trial. diane testified the abuse jose inflicted on his sons was not just physical but sexual. >> touching each other and he indicated it was in his genital area. >> diane told us she observed even more. >> the three of them would take

showers together. lyle was 15 and erik was 12. >> the prosecutor was, to say the least, skeptical. >> if my daughter needed me to lie for her, i would live for her if it was a life and i think. if it was your cousin you grew up with. of course you would. >> you pretty sure they were doing that? >> i am positive. >> one reason why? >> a relative said she felt the defense was made up and she confronted lyle about it and he said to her, that's the way it's going to be. >> so, we had to ask. to the brothers ask you to live for them? >> no. >> did they ask you to shade things are tell certain stories and not other stories? the defense contended the abuse was real. went on for years. finally, >> they came to believe that something terrible was about to break loose. >> specifically that their

parents were going to kill them if they did not kill their parents first. mental health experts testified and said that was understandable . >> erik and lyle my dentist purchased the shotguns for their own protection. >> it was a high-stakes defense and by far, the most important witnesses would be the brothers themselves. would the jury believed them? would america? >> coming up. >> my dad molested me. >> i told him i did not want to do this. >> shocking then. chilling even now. was it the truth? billy: one second, grandma. this guy is going to buy my car. okay?

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it's your time to cash in. so don't just play. stay... at northern california's premier casino resort. book your getaway now at cachecreek.com. i'm richard lui. eight people including two children have been wounded at a mass shooting in rochester hills, michigan. police say the gunman used a

semiautomatic gun and fired 30 rounds. he fled and was later found dead due to self-inflicted gunshot wound. father's day weekend kicks off with soaring temperatures. the southwest is forecasters see triple digit temperatures will parts of the southeast and southern plains make spirits temperatures in the upper 90s. h ? ? keith morrison: according to leslie abramson, there was only one relevant question to consider what was the? >> according to leslie abramson, there was only one relevant question to consider in the murders. >> why did these killings occur? >> a question the brothers believe they could answer best. no one had ever seen televise testimony like this before. >> joseph lyle menendez. >> they testified any emotional terms about what they said for the darkest secrets of their

family. >> between the ages of six and eight, did your father have sexual contact with you? >> yes. we would be in the bathroom and he would put me on my knees and have oral sex with him. >> did you want to do this? >> [ crying ] >> at some point, did he do some other things to you? >> he would -- me. >> did you ask him not to?

>> yes. >> i told him i did not want to do this, and that it hurt me. and he said he didn't mean to hurt me. he loved me. >> what did he tell you about telling people? >> he just said it was our secret. that bad things would happen to me if i told anybody. >> lyle testified his father stopped abusing him when he turned eight. he said for years he had no idea his brother was a victim too. then, erik took the stand. >> he would have may give him oral sex and he would stick it into my thighs as he was doing this. >> erik testified that when he refused to cost -- cooperate,

>> he came back with a knife and put it on my neck and said i should kill you and next time i will. >> reaction to the testimony was to say the least polarized. >> you either totally believed the brothers had been abused or you thought the whole thing was a crock of you know what. >> but, the defense said, the brothers explosive claims was just the lead up, the back story to what really prompted the murders. >> what do you believe was the originating cause? of you and your brother ultimately winding up shooting your parents? >> me telling lyle -- >> you telling lyle what? was it you telling lyle about something that was happening? >> my dad, my dad had to molested me.

>> it had been right up until the murders, erik said. he testified his mother was aware of it all. >> she says i know. i've always known. do you think i'm stupid? >> lyle said he confronted his father several days before the murders. >> i told him i would tell everybody everything about it. i would tell the police and the family. >> then, according to lyle, his father said something that sounded like a threat. >> he said we all make choices in life, son. erik made his and you've made yours. >> i thought we were in danger. >> they drove down to san diego to buy the shotguns for protection they said. two days later said lyle, he and his father had another argument about the abuse. after which, lyle said his parents went into the den and shut the door and? >> i thought they were going

ahead with their plan to kill us. >> remember, jose and kitty kept two rifles in the house. >> so what did you do? >> i ran upstairs to tell my brother it was happening now. >> they ran out of the car, loaded their guns, and burst through the door. >> i was firing as i went into the room. >> and what direction? >> in front of me. >> what was in front of you? >> my parents. >> at some point washer gun empty? >> yes. i could see somebody moving, seemed like moving in the direction of where my brother should be. >> lyle said he returned to the car and reloaded and ran back in the house. >> what did you do after you reloaded? keith morrisond they act i ran around and shot my

mom. >> did they act in the mistaken belief they were defending their own lives? yes, said the defense. a classic case of imperfect self-defense. perfect nonsense that the prosecutor. she grilled lyle on cross- examination. >> when you put the shotgun against her cheek and pulled the trigger, did you love your mother? >> yes. >> was that an act of love? >> it was confusion. fear. >> you were afraid of her at that point? they slaughter their mother in a way that was so cruel, she got up to run and they went out and reloaded and put the gun to her cheek and blew her brains out. i'm sorry. that's the height of cruelty. >> what's more. >> walk. walk. walk. grabbed the shotgun shell.

put the shotgun shell in. run back in. remember, time is ticking. time is ticking. you put the barrel of the shotgun against her cheek, and you pull. that is intent. no doubt about it. >> the prosecution believed the brothers were flat-out lying about the abuse and the events leading to the murders. and as it turned out the testimony gave the state a big opening. >> they offered their mental state as a defense. you have waived your psychiatric patient privilege. >> the oziel tape. by testifying the brothers put their mental date on center stage meaning the tape was fair game. the defense played the tape. to take the sting out of it. the detective had never heard the tape before and he was

dumbfounded. this was supposedly a candid confession tape, but on it? the brothers never once mentioned the issue that was now the very core of their defense. >> why did you ever murder your parents? because they were sexually eliciting us. it never came out. why didn't they tell his therapist? >> big deal? the prosecution thought so. by then, the jury had heard many hours of tearful testimony about abuse. that is when in december 1993, they retired to consider a verdict. >> we made a mistake right off the bat. >> hazel was on terex jury. >> we took a show of hands as to what level we thought they were. it became a media that it was men against women murder versus manslaughter. >> the main issue was the story of the abuse. the women believed them. the men did not.

did discussions get heated? >> oh, yes. the public thinks the women were emotional in the trial but it was the men who were emotional. they pounded their fists on the table and called his names and yelled at us. >> those deliberations carried on into the new year, and then? a massive 6.7 earthquake shook southern california. the backdrop against which the juries would deliver a decision which shocked the world. >> coming up. o.j. simpson? that explosive case is about to cast a shadow over this one. on. copd isn't pretty. i'm out of breath, and often out of the picture. but this is my story. ( ♪♪ ) and with once-daily trelegy, it can still be beautiful. because with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler,

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man: the court finds, based upon-- keith morrison: after six months of trial, two juries, the court finds based upon -- >> after six months of trials, two juries, one result. >> i find the jury is deadlocked in the court declares a mistrial. >> the juries could not make up their minds. nearly half of them voted for manslaughter. the da said he vowed to retry the case. >> we have an ethical, professional, and moral responsibility to go forward with this case is a first- degree murder case. >> but, before the second trial could begin, oj happened. suddenly, the stakes are even

bigger. >> when o.j. simpson went home at the end of his trial, it was hard in the da's office. we were considered to be kind of losers. >> a second menendez trial began eight days after oj's acquittal with the judge weisberg presiding again. the same judge, the same case. this time, the trial was fundamentally different. >> the first major ruling judge weisberg made was no tv camera. >> this time, one jury for both brothers. the judge scaled-back testimony about the brother's the legit physical and sexual abuse. diane was able to testify but not about lyle telling her his father was molesting her. the reason was because this time around lyle did not take the stand to lay the foundation about abuse in the first place. >> in between the trials, there

were allegations he was asking people to fabricate testimony. >> letters surfaced after the first trial which lyle was alleged to have encourage people to lie for the defense. >> the defense decided they could not put him on the witness stand so erik had to carry the ball for both brothers. he was a good witness but not as strong as lyle had been at the first trial. >> the expert testimony about the impact of the alleged abuse and the brothers state of mind, the judge severely limited the number of experts because he felt that testimony was repetitive. one not allowed to testify was dr. vicary. >> i was shocked. i said they have guided the defense. there is no defense without that. >> that specific ruling was in large part due to the objections raised by the new prosecutor leading the case. the deputy da. >> one thing we asked the judge to do is to limit this abuse excuse. >> the approach the prosecutor

took was to attack at every turn and not give any free passes there. >> andrew is a lawyer today. back then he was the youngest member of the menendez retrial jury. >> at the time the defense attorney was saying it was a family that would win at all cost. to say their parents abused them was almost like the ends justify the means. let's make up this story about abuse. >> one thing jurors figured was not made up was the confession tape. this time the prosecution got to use that wildcard the way they wanted to, as their smoking gun. they highlighted a section where the brothers seem to have no remorse about what they had done. >> you miss just having these people around. i miss not having my dog around. >> that was like a punch in the gut. >> just before the jury went out, judge weisberg's last

ruling. quite possibly the most important one of all. >> the jurors would not be allowed to consider the imperfect self-defense. >> the judge pacing is really on a california supreme court decision that came down after the first menendez trial said imperfect self-defense did not apply because the brothers initiated the confrontation with her parents. did you think had you been offered imperfect self-defense that you might've maybe started in a different place or come to a different conclusion? >> i'm confident we would not have because we literally started from first-degree murder and when every element was satisfied, we were done. >> this time the deliberations were quicker, more congenial. and, certain. >> guilty on all counts. special circumstances. >> guilty of first-degree murder. but the fates of lyle and erik were not the only headlines. more came in the penalty phase.

dr. vicary finally got to testify and under oath, he had to admit something. >> the drum involves is meant defense psychiatrist dr. victory who deleted dozens of portions of is not because, quote, leslie abramson told me this has to come out. >> what did it feel like to be you in that circumstance? spent well, it was very traumatic. >> traumatic indeed. he said leslie abramson asked him to delete note she felt could be viewed as evidence of premeditation and reluctantly, he said, he agreed. california medical board punished him 34 months probation. abramson disputed his version of events and after an investigation the state bar years later cited insufficient evidence of violations and closed the case. in the end? all her efforts did not spare the menendez brothers from a

life sentence. >> i think fairness has been drained out of the system. >> decades later whether the second trial was fair is still being debated. >> it's a tale of two trials. they could not have been more different. >> he was the attorney appointed to handle lyle's appeal. >> no source evidence in your defense doesn't go to the jury. >> it was the same judge. >> it was. >> what's the explanation for the difference? >> it's a good question. i do not have an answer. >> in the saudi of lyle's federal appeal hearing, judge questioned why so many key rulings changed in trial number 2? er? >> grounds to vacate their convictions? what do the brothers have to say all these years later? we will ask lyle menendez, next. endez,

next. evidence of premeditation. the outside world saw what they thought was evidence of premeditation. [coughing] copd hasn't been pretty. it's tough to breathe and tough to keep wondering if this is as good as it gets. but trelegy has shown me that there's still beauty and breath to be had. because with three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy keeps my airways open and prevents future flare-ups. and with one dose a day, trelegy improves lung function so i can breathe more freely all day and night. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur.

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so clearly you. in 2005, after years of failed appeals, the menendez brother's' case went to the federal court. in 2005, after years of failed appeals, the menendez brothers case went to the federal court. it was their last chance.

the court denied it. maintaining the state court made reasonable rulings in light of the facts and did not violate federal law. lyle menendez was 49 years old and it's been nearly half his life in prison when he agreed to talk to us. hello? >> hello. >> so, here we are. >> we spoke with lyle for more than two hours. he was confident, articulate, and 28 years later eager to explain why he and his brother killed their parents. he shared intimate details about his childhood and the betrayal he said he felt when erik confided to him days before the murders that their father was still molesting him. >> my father is a said nothing. i feel part of that i had with my dad by keeping the secret and for you to have done this to my brother it was like, kept my part of this double's pact and

you did it. my mother, you let your children wake up in the home of a child molester every day? >> lyle testified in the trial that not only did his mother cover for his actions but she also sexually abused him. more than a quarter century after the murders, the feelings of anger and hurt are still close to the surface. >> my mother was very cruel. she very much resented my brother and i, early on. >> is if you and erik had come between her and your father? >> yes. >> we reminded him is what his prosecutors still say. lyle is still trying to avoid some level of responsibility by blaming abuse when the abuse does not appear to have been so bad as to cause a person to do that? >> i would trade my entire defense for a 32nd video of my

father. i would trade my case for it. it is so sanitized and so easy to use the word abuse. it wasn't so bad. >> let's get down to the incident itself. when did you and erik decide to kill your parents? >> we didn't decide. we got overwhelmed with panic and emotion and made the decision. >> the outside world saw what they thought was evidence of a lot of premeditation. using a friend's driver's license to hide the fact you went to san diego and got weapons. >> it's not entirely accurate. i did not have a california i.d. so there wasn't a way to purchase a weapon other than my brother using this kit i.d.

>> no disputing it, they bought the guns in advance with a stolen i.d. and there was this irrefutable fact the prosecutor pointed out. lyle reloaded and fired the final shot at his mother's face all she was still alive and crawling desperately to get away. they saw that is the evidence of premeditation and cruelty. >> i certainly in the room is not making decisions in a chaotic situation like that. reflecting afterwards, it haunts me. it does haunt me. >> the other comment that came out was, they could've gone out and gotten in the car and driven away. they didn't have to do this. >> a person like my father is not going to allow you to take something that will ruin his life that he has carefully crafted. he is not going to. he's not going to. >> you could have left. that's the point. >> wait to be killed in a

parking lot? >> you thought that would happen? they didn't believe anyone would help them set lyle, not even the police. speaking of which, the 911 call kyle made -- file made? >> you were so grief stricken on that call and lying at the same time. >> yeah. i don't think i was grief stricken. i think i was absolutely broken down with stress. both of us were in such a state of traumatize. it poured through on that call. >> you could've told them. instead you misled them. your weather? >> i mean, i don't think i was going to tell the police department. self-preservation

at that point. >> lyle strongly denied the prosecution's claim that he and erik killed their parents for money. furthermore, he said he did not think their case should have gone to trial. >> this case should have been settled. there are 200 cases a year where a parent is killed by child and it's almost all related to abuse and almost all settled. >> it was different. guys like you and places like you live and ask like you committed, this is a big deal. >> exactly. it was easy because it was beverly hills. i saw this headline these brothers killed for money. >> you haven't seen erik and how long? >> 1996?

>> getting to be a long time. >> yeah. i miss my brother every day. >> erik declined our interview request. at the time he had been married for 18 years. lyle for 14. remember, erik said he and his brother wanted to pursue career in politics in a highly unusual way, they've done it, sort of. erik started a life care and hospice program for inmates at the correctional facility near san diego. 500 miles north, lyle was president of the inmate government at mule creek state prison. >> i know it's going to be a suffering for me, but i feel like i can find some purpose here. >> in 2018, a reunion of sorts. lyle was moved to the same facility where erik was serving his sentence. they were even housed in the

same unit. lyle's former appellate attorney told us if they can produce no evidence of the abuse, it would be the first step toward perhaps getting a third trial. even he admits it's a long shot. if it did happen, two people surely would not be there. defense attorney leslie abramson has retired from law and did not respond to our interview request. as for the prosecutor, pam, do you think it wrecked your career? >> of course it did. if 51, the case i probably would not of been a mother. i wouldn't be natalie's mom. it does have a happy ending. >> before she left the das office, she took something with her. a picture of kitty. not this one. she took one from the crime scene. >> she had blue eyes and one is open and the other one is gone.

you probably think i'm crazy to keep the picture, but it's a reminder of what those horrible children did to her. can you imagine giving birth and giving everything you have to these kids and they kill you? >> the brothers have supporters who hope they get out of prison one day. when we last checked, lyle's facebook followers numbered in the thousands. fair to say that pam is not one of them. >> life in prison is just fine. i hope they live a long, long life. mynetwork-tv.onebraker: s the christmas choir banquet. i am craig melvin and this is dateline. >> this was the christmas choir banquet. she was dressed to the nines. >> this young girl catches his eye. >> she catches everyone's i. there was blood everywhere.