and months now because, for a long time, they had a massive fundraising advantage. now, you know, trump has been raising a ton of money now, certainly more than he was before, and he's going to try to play catchup, i guess. but biden is already out there. that's a big advantage. >> it is a big advantage. eugene robinson, thank you so much for your time and insights. >> of course. >> always great to see you. pulitzer prize winning columnist here. we love to see it. thank you, folks, for getting up "way too early" on this monday morning. "morning joe" will start right now. joe biden has no plan. he's got absolutely no plan. he doesn't even know what the word inflation means. i don't think if you gave him a quiz. i think he should take a cognitive test like i did. i took a cognitive test, and i aced it.

doc ronnie johnson. everybody know the congressman from texas? he was the white house doctor. >> no, actually, they don't know him. they don't know ronnie johnson. >> who is ronnie johnson? >> nothing like mocking your opponent -- >> there is a randy johnson. >> -- mental acuity when messing up the doctor who administered your test who is sitting in the audience. >> person, man, woman, horse, ronnie johnson. >> the name of trump's former white house position turned u.s. congressman is ronny jackson. >> wait, what? >> not johnson. >> what? good morning. welcome to "morning joe." >> that's confusing. >> monday, june 17th. what else is new, right? with us, we have nbc news national affairs analyst and a partner and chief political analyst at puck, john heilemann.

pulitzer prize winning writer and analyst eugene robinson. peter baker. symone sanders townsend. thanks to all of you being in early on monday morning. >> john heilemann. >> right. >> i'm new at this politics thing, but i'm guessing if you're going to make fun of your opponent for being cognitively disconnected from facts and figures, it's probably good for you to not be disconnected cognitively from facts and figures as donald trump was this weekend. >> well, jim, it's good to see you this morning here on monday. or is it chuck, chuck scarborough? joe, joe scarborough. >> yeah. >> i mean, glass houses, man, you don't want to be throwing stones. people live in glass houses and

shouldn't be throwing stones. that's all i'll say. >> you know, the thing is, too, it's getting really more obvious, mika, that they have, the trump campaign understands they have a serious problem with donald trump on facts, on issues, on you name it, because they have to keep engaging in cheap fakes to make joe biden look bad. they've done it this weekend, the past several weeks. they have "the new york post" doing it, rnc doing it, all these right-wing stooges on x doing it. if you have to make stuff up, if you have to make stuff up, obviously, you don't feel like you have a strong enough campaign to win outright. >> no. i mean, they're grasping in many different ways, but i think that's trump being trump, getting names wrong and getting information wrong. i don't think he cares. our top story --

>> well, you know, i fear having a president like that, i really do. >> uh-huh. >> with storm clouds of world war ii on the horizon. >> oh, for sure. >> yeah. >> absolutely. our top story this hour, the biden campaign took in a record haul at a star-studded fundraiser over the weekend. the campaign says it raised more than $30 million in los angeles on saturday, breaking the record for the democratic party's largest fundraising event ever. nbc news could not independently verify that claim. president biden appeared at the event alongside former president barack obama, george clooney, julia roberts, jimmy kimmel. kimmel moderated a conversation. at one point, asking president biden about the supreme court and the possibility that the next president will likely have an opportunity to appoint two justices and what voters can do about that. >> elect me again.

i'll tell you why. i'm not just saying it. the next president is likely to have two new supreme court nominees, two more. two more. he's already appointed two that have been very negative in terms of the rights of individuals. the idea that if he's re-elected, he is going to appoint two more flying flags upside down is really -- i really mean it. >> could this be the scariest part of all of it? >> well, i think it is one of the scariest parts of it. look, the supreme court has never been as out of kilter as it is today. i mean, never. i taught constitutional law for nine years. this guy knows more about it than most. look, the fact of the matter is, this has never been a court that's been this far out of step. by the way, when we said after the decision that overturned roe

v. wade, the dobbs decision, you had clarence thomas talking about the fact that there were going to be other things we should reconsider, including in vitro fertilization, contraception, all these things. by the way -- >> including same-sex marriage. >> by the way, not on my watch. not on my watch. >> boy, you know, peter baker, this has proven to be such a key issue when you look at what's happened in '22, in '23, and a lot of the special elections at that time. even in red states like kansas, kentucky, have gone overwhelmingly for choice on this issue. now you add ivf that's been thrown into the mix. you add contraceptions that have been thrown into the mix. the biden campaign really does believe this is going to be one of the most vital issues for their base, don't they?

>> they do. what you hear the president doing there is expanding beyond issues specifically of abortion rights to say, okay, the first step on their path toward reversing a whole series of rights, right? one of the themes they have emphasized again and again was the idea of freedom. freedom is a word that republicans have used successfully over the years, and the biden campaign wants to take the word back a little bit. talk about not just women's rights but, as he pointed out there, lgbtq rights and the rights of any married couple or non-married couple as, you know, defined by the supreme court way back in the '60s to have the ability to decide when to have contraception and not, all those things. he's pointing to a future that sounds dark and scary in order to galvanize democratic voters. they may be upset with him about age, inflation, whatever else. he's saying, there are things at stake, things you care about on the table if you're not getting

out to vote. >> you know, mika, peter brings up a great point, underlines a great point. democrats are taking back the word freedom. nra would say, support freedom, vote scarborough. vote whoever they thought was right on gun issues. now, you have democrats talking about freedom. i'll tell you, i've seen focus groups where it really cuts through. libertarians are saying, libertarians are now saying, wait a second, this government can hardly do anything right, in their opinion. why in the world are we going to turn our bodies over to them to make decisions about health care? in this focus group i saw, that was a man speaking in a swing state. >> right. >> so this is about freedom. you see the freedom of women that also, i think for a lot of men, they see if that could happen with the women they love, it could also happen to them. >> i think in this election, the supreme court is definitely taking center stage for a lot of

people who might not have thought of it so much in their vote. but with alito hanging flags upside down in his house and then lying about it. >> his wife. >> bold-faced lying about it. we don't know if his wife did it. we don't know if anything they're saying is true. there was some altercation with a neighbor where the wife was called a bad name. that happened after the flag was hung upside down outside their house and at their beach house. we don't know what the truth is about that because they keep lying about it, so that's one supreme court justice. then you have clarence thomas who literally refuses to follow ethics rules when it comes to taking gifts from republican donors. refuses. i mean, he's been asked now for several years to please cough up the information, and he keeps forgetting $250,000 plane flights. this is the u.s. supreme court. symone, for women -- and you're

right, joe, the men who love them, the men who are really clued into the pain that losing 50 years of health care rights is causing to women right now -- this is front and center. this isn't some sort of issue in the background for this election. for women, it's life and death. >> it is very, very true, mika. you know, we had dr. nesbit on our show on this past weekend, and dr. nesbit used to be head of the d.c. department of health, now at georgetown. before a board certified physician for ten years. what about the young women diagnosed with cancer in their early 20s or late 20s/mid 30s and the doctor tells them that you need to freeze -- we suggest you freeze your eggs if you want to have the option of having a family later in life? >> yeah. >> this supreme court, some of the justices are poised to take that option away. you have republicans across the country that are poised to remove that option away for young cancer patients.

women literally being told they must be on death's doorstep before they can be helped and saved. lest we forget, we are awaiting a decision from the supreme court on idaho, what's happening in idaho, on if a woman who is pregnant comes into the emergency room, her right to be saved, to be helped, to be stabilized. idaho says, well, if she is pregnant, we need to make sure the baby is in tact and we don't want to do anything to hurt the baby. what idaho would like to do right now is potentially let that woman, again, be knocking on death's doorstep before they do anything for her. all right. now, to former trump white house communications director alyssa farah griffins saying president trump often talked about executing people at white house meetings. griffin highlighted an april interview from former attorney general bill barr where he was asked if he remembered a time

when trump called for a leaker to be executed. here's what he told cnn. >> alyssa farah griffin, trump's communications director, posted yesterday and said that you were present at a moment when trump suggested executing the person who leaked information, that he went to the white house bunker when the george floyd protests were happening outside of the white house. do you remember that? >> i remember him being very mad about that. i actually don't remember him saying executing, but, you know, i wouldn't dispute it. you know, it doesn't sound -- the president would lose his temper and say things like that. i doubt he would have actually carried it out, you know. >> but he would say that on other occasions? >> you know, the president had -- i think people sometimes took him too literally and, you know, he would say things like similar to that in occasions to blow off steam, but i wouldn't

take him literally every time he did it. >> oh, you mean like he'll get rid of roe, just blowing off steam? griffin went further, saying trump had called for executions multiple times. >> bill barr kind of said, like, i don't recall that specific instance, but there were others where he talked about executing people. i'm like, how you rationalize that that is a person fit and sound judgment to be president of the united states. they're reading the tea leaves. they know there is a real chance he's going to be president again. there's not a lot of glory or, like, victory in being right but being on the wrong side of trump. i think that's ultimately what it comes down to. >> gene, let's get this right. the attorney general of the united states. >> yeah. >> heard the commander in chief calling for the execution of staff members. >> yeah. >> and then when he is asked about it, after he's made clear that he is going to endorse for

president the man who is calling for the execution of staff members, because i guess barr is shocked and stunned by joe biden's, like, student debt relief plan -- that's where they always run to. well, if you think january 6th was bad, calling for the execution of staff members was bad, what about joe biden's three-tier plan to relieve students of their debt? which they actually do. >> yes. >> that's their go-to. you think january 6th was bad. >> mm-hmm. >> here we have a guy who is attorney general, a lawyer. i'll tell you, lawyers, i'm not even a good lawyer, but you get lawyers in conversations, they remember things. they have a dictaphone going. they've got, you know, it going in their heads. if you hear something like that, your mind is trained to set that

apart. okay, the president of the united states just said we should execute staffers for leaking. >> yeah. >> i mean, what barr says is so laughable. what alyssa said is so chilling. >> scary. >> we actually have republicans -- so scary. we actually have republicans that are going to go out and endorse a guy who called for the execution of fellow staff members, then claims he doesn't remember it. >> yeah, yeah. i don't specifically remember that, but i won't deny it, right? >> right. >> i won't say that he didn't call for execution of staffers because that's the sort of thing he did, right? that's the sort of thing he said. >> right. >> this is insane, right? i mean, step back for a second. we're talking about the president of the united states talking about how members of his staff should be executed.

for, you know, leaking information that he didn't want leaked, which was not national security information or anything. it's just something he thinks is embarrassing to him. absolutely unprecedented and insane. like a lot of things that trump is saying now, we shouldn't just sort of walk past it and say, as bill barr said, oh, well, people are taking him too literally. well, i'm sorry, but that's like the only way i know how to take people, right? i mean, i can't, you know -- when you say, i want to execute that person, and you're the president of the united states, i have to take you literally. when you stand in front of a rally in las vegas and talk about, you know, boats and electrocution and sharks, i have to take you literally. i don't know how to take it otherwise.

and this is a person who was elected president of the united states and who has a chance of being elected again. that should cause all of us to -- just to step back and think for a minute. this is not normal, and this is not acceptable or safe for the country. >> joe, mika, i want to just think about it this way, the most charitable interpretation of what bill barr is saying here, right, is something like, the president of the united states on a regular basis would blow off steam -- i think that was his phrase, right? >> yup. >> he'd get mad and say things around the table like, let's imagine, i want to have this leaker found and executed. but, blowing off steam, you know, if we can find the leaker, i'd like to take him on the back lawn and have him shot.

say he wasn't being serious, just blowing off steam. as a matter of temperament, is that the guy you want as the commander in chief sitting in the oval office? a guy who, when he is frustrated, when he is blowing off steam -- again, to use barr's formulation -- is someone who, the way in which he exercises his frustration is to casually talk about having people who work for him shot, executed in some way. i don't know if that's by hanging or by a guillotine or by the firing squad. i think it speaks to a temperament that is the kind of temperament that leads you to a president of the united states who, when your vice president is on capitol hill in the middle of a riot that you have incited, and the people at that riot are talking about lynching the vice president, your temperament, that person, that president, is the kind of person who says, i'm

not going to do anything to call off the mob that i incited. i'm just going to sit up here and let it play out. i'll say quietly, according to at least some of the reporting we've seen in some stuff for the january 6th committee, said, you know, maybe our supporters have it right here. maybe mike pence deserves this. maybe he deserves to be killed. >> right. >> to be strung up on the capitol grounds. i think, you know, you don't have to get all the way to donald trump was ordering the execution of staffers to think that this is a very dangerous temperament, dangerous mindset to v and one that shows an enormous lack of respect for the office, for the seriousness of the position, and is someone who is not in control of himself in a way that you would want a president to be. >> but let's put this all in context, because you are right. when donald trump got the riot going on january 6th, as lindsey

graham and kevin mccarthy said he was responsible for these riots, not only did he not call off the attackers when they were saying, "hang mike pence." not only did he tell staffers, according to their testimony, that maybe mike pence deserved hanging. he put out a tweet at a perilous time which put mike pence in even more danger. >> right. >> he decided to do that. mika, these comments that we're now finding out that, again, that barr is claiming he doesn't remember, you have to put these in proper context, too. this is a guy running for re-election in 2024, running to be president of this united states again in 2024, who said, the chairman of the joint chiefs needs to be executed, has had his lawyers argue, he can execute political opponents with

s.e.a.l. team six and can't be charged criminally. >> right. >> who has talked about finding media companies guilty of treason, jailing them. has called for the immediate arrest of his political opponents. we keep hearing it from his people. we heard it again this weekend from his people, that anybody who opposes trump, trump's opponents need to be jailed. so this wasn't just one stray comment five years ago. this is active. it's ongoing. and because he is so craven to be, i guess, relevant, the former attorney general of the united states is willing to go along for the ride. >> well, your point is well-taken. it is definitely well documented that there are really scary tendencies on the part of this former president. but even if anybody said something like that in jest or to blow off steam in any

situation, if it happened on the front porch of your house or if you said it on the show, it would be offputting. it would be striking. people would think something is wrong with you. >> for a president to say it in the oval office, talking about it. >> come on, let's be honest. >> talking about executing political opponents and generals, it is relevant. >> very. >> it is to be taken literally. still ahead on "morning joe," the latest on the war in gaza as the israeli military announces a new daily tactical pause and prime minister benjamin netanyahu moves to disband his war cabinet. plus, we'll dig into the supreme court's decision to strike down a federal ban on bump stocks. what is being said about that ruling. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. so i hired body doubles. mountain climbing tina at a cabin. or tree climbing tina at a beach resort.

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usa.com, swamp the vote, usa.com, to make a plan to vote either by mail or early in-person or on election day. just vote. i actually tell our people, we don't need your vote. we have so many votes. we don't need them. we just don't want to see votes stolen. we don't want to say, you know, steal the vote. we're not going to let it happen. it's not happening again. >> donald trump's interesting pitch to supporters that he doesn't care about them. and doesn't need their votes. the first was the infamous las vegas rally last weekend. the second with a sold out campaign event in west palm beach, florida, for his b-day. trump participated in a roundtable event in detroit at a predominantly black church. trump spoke to a crowd of mostly white voters on saturday where

he took credit for the record low black unemployment rate achieved under president joe biden last year. wow. that event came after trump gave an interview to semafor which focused on how trump's talk on race politics and masculinity has been influenced by the black men who have been part of his life. in it, trump said, quote, "i have so many black friends, that if i were a racist, they wouldn't be friends. they would know better than anybody, and fast. they would not be with me for two minutes if they thought i was racist. and i'm not racist." meanwhile, democratic congressman jim clyburn, who was an influential part of president biden's 2020 campaign, says he doesn't think black voters are really swinging toward donald trump. clyburn told "politico playbook's" podcast that democrats shouldn't be concerned. >> i don't think he needs to do anything but what he's doing. i think joe biden is doing

exactly what he needs to do to win re-election. i think the polling is taking place. something that's amiss with the polling. i call your attention to the recent polls over in maryland. the african-american woman running for the united states senate nomination, the sunday before the election, one poll had her five down. other poll had her seven down. and she won by 13. how do you explain that? that's 20 points. >> yeah. >> so i have no idea what's going on with polling these days, but i do know this, the polls did not have ossoff, nor warnock, winning georgia. and both of them won. polls did not have mcbath

getting 87% in that district, but she did. anybody who believes that donald trump will get 30% of the black male vote or 12% of the black female vote, i have a garage i'll sell ya. >> i think he is talking about the bridge in charleston. you know, i guess there's some people out there who would but buy it. usually, when i see candidates go to an event at a black church, usually, there are black people there. i saw very few black people -- >> right. >> -- in that black church. as i told symone earlier on "way too early," i hope the church got a nice fee for, you know,

its capital fund or whatever from the trump campaign for the use of the facility. but i think that tells you absolutely zero about african-american support. >> yeah. >> in the coming election. i'm not quite as dismissive of polls as jim clyburn, simply because i think, you know, a presidential campaign needs to worry about everything, right? if you have polls to look at, you need to worry about that and you need to work to shore up whatever weaknesses are out there. but i do agree with him that we are not going to see any sort of wholesale migration of african-american voters to donald trump. i don't see that. i don't hear that. i don't think it is going to -- >> i mean, bold sneakers and white people at the black church. mika, i had to ask eugene, can

you have black friends and be racist? he assured me you could, which is what i thought. i thought so. can i say one thing about polling, mika? >> yeah. >> i think polling for campaigns is not predictive, right? polls are not crystal balls. they're informative. so all of the campaigns that i have worked on, you have used the polling to inform your strategy. that's what polls should do. along those lines, i do think the current polling that is out there, i agree with, you know, mr. clyburn in the sense that i don't think it is accurate to the point of what black voters are going to, do but i do think it indicates there are some rightfully skeptical, some cynical voters out there in the african-american community wondering what another biden administration means for me. i think the campaign knows they need to answer that question. >> right. >> with some of the events you've seen the president and vice president take part in, i think they're attempting to do

that. >> symone sanders townsend, thank you, as always. we'll be watching "the weekend" saturday and sunday mornings beginning at 8:00 a.m. eastern, right here on msnbc. and thanks for doing "way too early" this morning. coming up on "morning joe," we're learning more about the ground rules for the upcoming presidential debate which is now less than two weeks away. we'll go through what both campaigns have agreed to. "morning joe" is coming right back. right now you can get a free footlong at subway. just buy any footlong in the app and get one free. just scan the qr code and enter promo code flbogo. it only works from the other side of the screen, buddy. you still got a land line in your house. order now in the subway app.

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[ cheers and applause ] bryson dechambeau's putt on the 18th hole to win the u.s. open, his second u.s. open win and second major championship overall. the winning putt came after an incredible shot from the bunker, 55 yards from the hole, setting up that great ending at pinehurst. dechambeau rightfully called it the bunker shot of his life. meanwhile, what a sunday to forget for rory mcilroy. one-stroke lead going to the 16th hole but missed a 30-inch par putt. then on the 18th hole, he got about 3 feet from the cup but

missed another short putt. >> no. >> that'd drop him one stroke behind dechambeau and extend his ten-year drought in major championships. let's bring in "morning joe"'s golf correspondent, president emeritus of the council on [ speaking in a non-english language ] -- relations, richard haass. also, two-time open winner, mr. mark leibovich. a lot of drama. take us through it. >> bryson dechambeau began the fourth day of the tournament several strokes up. rory mcilroy reversed it. went up two with four, five to play. then you had one of the epic collapses in golf. this is a guy, joe, who made close to 500 putts in a row of the length of the two he missed. . >> oh, my goodness. >> it was about as much of a mental meltdown as you see. it is an interesting question,

will he be able to come back from this? this was painful. bryson dechambeau, great shot out of the bunker, what's called the sandy out of the bunker and sank the putt, fantastic. that's actually a big thing. he's on the liv tour. it's also interesting, the people on the liv tour are able to play in the major tournaments. actually, this was an interesting thing for professional golf. great redemption for him. he was, shall we say, unpopular with the fans. he is a quirky guy. you can see the body building. 3d printing of his golf clubs. he is a curious guy. >> yeah. >> this will be more known as the tournament that rory lost than he won. >> yeah, that's really something. gene robinson, my older brother, three years older than me, loves golf. i never did, but i'd go golf with him in the summers. he'd be to herring over me from behind, and i would putt like

rory there. what we called it was the yips. let me tell you -- >> the yips, yeah. >> -- rory got the yips. >> well, he kind of got the yips. he did miss those two short putts. i disagree with richard haass a bit, though, because i think dechambeau won that tournament. i mean, remember, he missed a short putt coming home, too. dechambeau also missed a gimme putt, so that's a shot right there. that bunker shot on 18 was tiger woods-ish. think about it, 55 yard bunker shot that everyone thought was essentially impossible. >> i mean, come on. >> would have been good if he got the ball within 20 feet of the hole. you know, that shot, i think, really won him the tournament. otherwise, they would have -- you know, he would have bogeyed the hole, went to a playoff, and

who knows what would have happened. >> yeah. >> let's give dechambeau his props. >> the only person to get a sandy from the bunker all day. richard, heartwarming news this weekend coming out of fenway. >> i wished you a happy father's day yesterday, joe. this is not good of you. >> alex -- no, no, no. i'm just telling you, i'm so happy to see -- >> joe. >> -- that alex verdugo was actually -- whatever was ailing him last year, whatever prevented him from running out routine ground balls while a member of the red sox, actually run after fly balls in the outfield, he's gotten past it. he had a good friday night. he must have a better hmo. he actually ran out ground balls for the yankees. that said, what a night. what a weekend for the red sox.

last night, the red sox, man, on fire on the bases. nine stolen bases. >> nine stolen bases. >> nine stolen bases. there's rafaella. man, that kid is extraordinary. they've got a bunch of young kids. a .500 team. for some reason, the owners of the red sox decided they were going to just buy, like, the pga and stop spending money on baseball teams. but none of these young kids have figured that out. they are playing like crazy. what a great weekend. heilemann, you're sort of a moderate red sox fan. i've seen you at fenway once or twice. >> sure, sure. i'm primarily a profound, deep, lifelong hater of the new york yankees, so that, as a kid growing up in l.a., made me a red sox fan by proxy. this was a good weekend out

there at fenway for the good guys. always nice to see anything bad happen to the bronx blow hards. on the earlier question, i'd like to see richard and eugene battle it out given their conflict over the golf tournament. i'd like to get a tee time for them at wigged foot and see them go toe to toe. potentially, lebo is here, he can be the caddie. famous for his caddying skills. caddie for both of them and keep scores. >> gene, i would have given you the putts of that length. wouldn't have made you putt it out. >> i would have given it to you, richard, too. >> neither one of us would have missed. >> lebo, didn't you go to harvard or something? >> no, i didn't. >> boston is not a college town. i assume everybody on the show went to harvard but me. you didn't, huh? >> not a big college town, as they said in "spinal tap." no, i never went to harvard. i think i used the bathroom

there once which, i guess, technically gives me an affiliation. no, i didn't, but i'm giddy over the weekend. actually, if you want to apply the red sox/yankee series to the u.s. open, i think the yankees lost this series more than the red sox won the series. the yankees were sort of rory mcilroy. no, it was nice to see. i'd like them to have a summer we can pay attention to, and they might be doing that. >> can all the red sox fans on this show right now at least acknowledge the terrible thing that happened to mookie betts. >> i wasn't going to bring it up. >> horrible. >> yeah, he -- >> i told you he was injured. >> you did. mika walked in and said, mookie betts is injured. i never get sports information from you. >> surprise you didn't know. well, i follow a little bit. >> who told you that? did your daughter tell you that? >> no, i was reading. >> okay. it's horrible hearing about the fractured hand.

i hope he gets better soon. >> here it is. oh, it's terrible. >> oh! >> god, i hate that. >> that's a 98 mile an hour heater right on the wrist. >> come on, man. >> 98 miles an hour, ouch. >> oh, golly. >> ay-ay-ay. >> no surgery required, alex tells me. >> yes. >> alex, after he eps the show and is vice president for morning news, he is actually a doctor, a hand doctor at hss. yeah, so that's good to know. mark leibovich, as we sputter through this segment, we actually do have a bit of high brow sports news, or commentary coming from the "atlantic" under your byline about renaming

boston's airport after a man who said, i don't play for the city of boston. i play for the celtics. >> i think it is high time boston's logan airport be renamed to honor one of the greatest bostonians, if not the greatest bostonian ever, bill russell. the great boston celtic center who had an incredible life, certainly as one of the sport's greatest champions, if not the greatest champion. but as a civil rights giant and someone who had an incredibly fraught relationship with the city of boston during what was probably the nader of its racial history in the '60s. what bill russell is a story of is reconciliation. i mean, certainly struggle and fighting through and really just bold statements throughout his career, which was just brilliant on the court and more so off the court. i remember back when obama was president and he was giving the

presidential medal of freedom to russell, i think that was in 2011, obama was sort of like a big, silent proponent of them putting a statue up of russell in boston. they put one up in city hall plaza. the mayor presided over it in 2013. i think since then, in a way, there have been some sort of later day efforts to honor him more properly. this would be the ultimate, and i think it'd be great. william logan, the guy who logan airport was named from, has had a great run, 80 years. name a terminal after him or something. >> yeah, you know, gene robinson, what a man bill russell was. what a man. to be a hero in boston during that time. you talk about the '60s, but, my god, one of the most horrific scenes on integration came in '76 where a young black man was

being held by the arms as they tried to shove an american flag into his chest. that moment was frozen. >> yeah. >> it was a tough, racist town. >> yeah. >> yet, bill russell, a hero there. a guy that never -- this is g-rated, mika, because it is monday morning, i guess. >> thank you. >> he never put up with any guff, man. he was tough as hell. >> well, he was tough as hell, and he was the smartest guy in the nba. you know, i remember when i was a really little kid, mike was a dedicated celtics fan because of bill russell. >> yeah. >> because he won those, what, 11 in a row, 12, i don't know how many in a row, nba

championships with the celtics. not by being the biggest guy, that was wilt chamberlain, or the strongest guy against chamberlain. he wasn't the fastest guy by far, but he was so much smarter than anybody else on the court. he played with, like, this amazing almost esp sense of timing to block shots, to get rebounds. got any rebound he wanted over bigger and stronger players. he knew what pass to make. he knew exactly what his team needed, and he won all those championships in a row, all while being kind of a figure in the civil rights movement. we looked up to bill russell as a leader. >> oh, yeah. >> even before all the conflict in boston over school busing. i will sign that petition, mark.

you know, i'm for bill russell airport. absolutely long overdue. let's do it. >> let's do it. all right. let's take a quick break. when we come back, we'll tap into one of richard haass' other talents. >> putt-putt? >> no, foreign policy. we'll be right back. and the raptor cake. now, how about something to put a smile on your face? aspen dental provides complete, affordable care with dentists and labs in one place plus free exams and x-rays for new patients without insurance... and 20% off treatment plans for everyone. quality care at a price worth celebrating. it's one more way aspen dental is in your corner. ♪ limu emu... ♪ and doug. (bell ringing) limu, someone needs to customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual. let's fly! (inaudible sounds)

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welcome back. 53 past hour. the israeli military is

temporarily suspending its daytime operations along an aid corridor in southern gaza. officials announced the tactical pause yesterday, adding the fighting in other parts of gaza, including rafah, will still continue. since israel moved to the southern gaza city last month, aid shipments have plummeted. the united nations says hunger is now widespread, and moree ministers, including defense minister gallant strategic affairs minister ron >> richard, if you just read

"the times" and "the post," "wall street journal," "the financial times," puzzle pieces here and there, you'll see an attack, you'll hear of civilian deaths, death of idf soldiers. you'll hear about political skirmishes inside netanyahu's war cabinet, stories about him becoming more and more isolated. it's hard to get a view from 30,000 feet, which is why you're here. what are we looking at? what direction is this war moving? >> what we're looking at is israel girding itself for a long, tactical war. you have pauses for supplies to get into gaza, but nothing is being done to bring about a permanent cease-fire, simply because israel doesn't want one. it doesn't want to cease the militaryt operations to degrad hamas, and the terms hamas laid out are unacceptable to israel.

i think what we're seeing militarily is an open-ended, lower-level war in gaza. then the r disbanding of the inr war cabinet is two of the more modern members resigned. bibi will have a de facto cabinet with the defense minister and durmond. a formal one would have allowed the extreme people to join it. this suggests a long, low-level war in gaza. again, as the attention turns to the north, whether we'll see an uptick in military operations there. because there is a strong consensus iner israel on both, that israel has to go after hamas and that is unacceptable for any israeli government to allow this reality to continue

in the north. 75,000 israelis have been forced out of their homes to move south, away from the border with lebanon, hezbollah. the chance ofno military operations there are going up. >> peter baker, the president floated his own cease-fire plan last week, but with hamas' counter demands, they are demands coming from hamas that very few israeli citizens support. what's the next step for the white house? >> the problem is hamas and israel have starkly different views on the cease-fire. a permanent end to hostilities is what hamas is demanding, and israel isn't ready to agree to that. the biden administration, i feel, is growing less and less optimistic about it. over the last few months, every time we got a head of steam going on thet talks, they'd ta very optimistically, they think

they'reca close, you know, that there's a bridgeable gap. seeing if they can narrow the gaps. now, you're hearing, i think, a different tone. a tone where they're beginning not to give up. other dayent said the during his trip to italy, he hasn't given up there, but even he was suggesting he didn't have much hope at this point for that cease-fire coming anytime soon. i think there's sort of a, you know, a resignation. there's not a short-term end to this. and they're girding themselves for a long-time operation and what it means for the united states and other israeli allies. now to ukraine. representatives from about 100 delegations came together this weekend in switzerland to attend the ukraine peace summit. vice president kamala harris represented the united states, meeting withte zelenskyy on the

sidelines of the summit where she once again pledged america's full support. 78 countries signed a joint communique saying ukraine's territorial integrity must form the basis for any potential peace agreement with russia. multiple global powers in attendance did not sign the document, including brazil, india, south africa, and saudi arabia. russia was not invited to the summit. china was but did not attend. >> we've seen the continued unified support of the g7, of the eu, of the united states standing shoulder to shoulder against russia. where has it gotten us, though, and is there any hope for this war coming to an end soon? or like the israel-hamas war, is

this one bound to go on for a very long time? >> i'd say the western support has gotten us quite far. if you compare where we are today opposed to 2 1/2 years ago when this phase of the war began, what ukraine has accomplished with american and european help is quite extraordinary. it's essentially fought russia to a standstill. that said, the idea that ukraine, no matter how much help it gets militarily, is going to be able to liberate crimea and liberate the eastern areas, it's not going to happen. that can't be the measure of victory or success or we're doomed to failure. at the same time, what putin is asking for isti unacceptable. that russia gain formal control of all of the east, that ukraine be barred from ever becoming a member of nato. i think the best we can hope for is that, one, western aid continue and that ukraine be freed up to attack larger areas inside russia, basically so russia feels the pain of the war more and so russia understands

the time is not on its side. sometime in 2025, if those two things happen, i think then it presents the possibility not of peace, not of agreement, but of some type of an interim cease-fire or armistice. that's the most we can hope for. >> richard, let's put up this map again. this map, for the most part, has been where we've been for the past year, year and a half. year and a half ago, you had the chairman of the joint chiefs, then mark milley, saying privately to people and also publicly, in a sense, the ukrainians aren't going to get the russians out of their territory. the russians aren't going to get to kyiv. nobody is going to get what they want. the sooner they figure that out, the sooner they figure out how to make peace around this new reality, the better. well, here we are 18 months later.

i suspect we can go another 18 months unless something dramatic happens. i don't see anything that suggests anything really dramatic is going to happen. that's what the map is going to look like 18 months from now, too. at what point do both sides pursue bpeace? a peace neither side will like but a peace that will at least give us a cease-fire? >> i think what is essential, joe, to get to where you want, is that western military aid to ukraine conning? putin hasra to come to the conclusion, however reluctantly, that time is not on his side. second of all, i wouldn't use the word peace. the most we can get is a kind of korean style armistice, some type of a cease-fire. russia wouldn't give up its claims to all of ukraine. ukraine would not be asked to give up its claims to crimea in the east. simply get a cease-fire would save a lot of lives, a lot of money. some reconstruction could begin. peace is something we're going to push down the road, i think decades down when putin is no longer running russia. but i believe the goal next year

ought to be to get some type of a cease-fire. it is not impossible, but both sides have to give up some of their dreams. we have to have some really honest conversations with ukraine about what's realistic, and russia has to finally come to the conclusion that time will not serve itself interests. >> well, and russia also is going to have to understand, that while ukraine may not officially be a member of nato, nato support is going to pour in, eu support is going to pour into ukraine to help rebuild ukraine and make attacking ukraine in the future just not a possibility. peter baker, what is president biden's best hope right now for this war coming to an end?en >> well, you know, we talk about something dramatic can happen in the next 18 months. something dramatic will happen, potentially, in november. that's the most important thing right now on this war. what putin is waiting for is to

see who is going to be the president of the united states. that's going to be determined in november. if it's trump, that's a very different circumstance for him than if it is biden. >> yeah. >> right? obviously, if trump wins, that's tantamount to what, putin want right? trump has already said, he's more than happy to trade away ukrainian territory, ukrainian sovereignty, ukraiian independence. the only way to end it in a day is to give putin what he wants. he's notha making a deal betwee now and november. why would he? he is in perfectly fine shape at the moment. the idea this has anything to do with what's happening on the battlefield, they're trying to get the battlefield to the place where, in november, each side can be in the best position it can be in for what inevitably will be the next stage of this war. the next stage will depend on whether it is president biden who is willing to do what he can to help ukraine or president trump, who is willing to do what he can to help russia.

>> yup. of course, in donald trump, you have somebody who said he'll end the war in a day. you have somebody who said putin's invasion of ukraine wasn brilliant. you have somebody who has obviously been sucking up to vladimir putin for years. >> yeah. >> of course, if you're vladimir putin, that is the outcome. you'll spread any disinformation between now and the election to make that happen. >> peter baker and richard haass, thank you both very much for your insights this morning. it is four minutes past the top of the hour. the first presidential debate is one week from thursday. the campaigns for president biden and former president trump have reached an agreement on the rules. the debate will be held on thursday, june 27th, in atlanta, hosted by cnn. it will last 90 minutes and include two commercial breaks.ud there will not be a live audience in the studio, and

campaign staff will not be allowed to interact with the candidates. both campaigns havehe agreed to allow microphones to be muted throughout the debate, only unmuting during the candidate's time to speak. both candidates will also not be allowed any prewritten notes or props. they will be provided with a pad and paper. in a statement, cnn clarified the requirements to be allowed on the debate stage. all participaing debaters must appear on a sufficient enough of state ballots ton reach the 27 electoral vote threshold to win the presidency and receive at least 15% in four separate national polls of registered or likely voters that meet cnn's standards for reporting. of the non-major party candidates running, only robert f. kennedy jr. has a potential chance h of meeting the requirements. >> john heilemann, your take on the rules and who they seem to

benefit. >> well, i guess my take on the rules, joe, is they're kind of all the important ones were pre-negotiated. i know you're trying to hammer this out and get it all codified, an important thing, but these were -- putting aside the questions of duration, i don't think we knew 90 minutes versus 120, some of these things,so podiums and coin flip. you know, the key elements here were the things that biden -- the biden team and the trump teame agreed to before -- a moh ago when they first announced the debdebate. no live studio audience still there and the muting of the mics. >> that's a good one. >> the rest is relatively standard. you know, no written props, notes. these p are things we'd seen before. the commission on presidential debates noted over the weekend that what had been agreed to here was good in the sense that he felt as though cnn and these

agreed, preset agreements followed, more or less, down the path the commission on presidential debates has laid out. those are sensible rules. the one difference is the muting of the mics thing, and that is going to be the biggest difference. the biggest difference between what we saw in anything in the past, never has been used in a presidential debate stage before. >> right. >> i think there is a question, if you go back to 2020 and think about the disastrous first debate for donald trump, the fact that the mics were unmuted and trump was able to, was allowed to make kind of an ass of himself in the debate. actually worked to joe biden's advantage, politically. there are some who wonder the muting of the mics will help or hurt. it's a brave, new world territory. we've never seenhu b this befor >> good point. >> it is like al gore's first debate with george w. bush, the sighing, the moaning, all that,

that actually also worked against his interest. >> do we know who is in charge of muting the mics? is it the moderators? is it producer? >> they better get it right. >> exactly. >> we've all seen debates at criticalat times. >> exactly. >> sometimes the moderators do an extraordinary job, and sometimes there are abject failures. >> they'rect run over. >> run over. >> that's the biggest question here. if trump is the kind of trump we've seen in other debates, he has a tendency to run over moderators, just run them right over. >> right. >> lie and lie and lie. then the moderators give up and move on. that's unacceptable. >> it is a button. pretty easy to push. >> press it. >> let's hope they stick by the rules. you know, mark leibovich, let's talk about the 800-pound elephant in the room. you are going to have two older

candidates whom -- both of whom each sideh claims is either no cogent or crazy. we've seen all of the cheap fakes of joe biden, suggesting that he is out of it. so fascinating, we haven't talked about it yet. i hope we get a chance to talk to andrew ross sorkin, but he talked to a lot of ceos who were in the meeting with donald trump. said the guy was just ranting and raving and rambling on and out of it and crazy. as andrew ross sorkin said, several of those ceos, who went in and were predisposed to support trump, left less supportive of trump and more concerned. basically going, you're saying joe biden is bad? can't be any worse than this. so it is -- it is going to be fascinating watching this

debate. i think there are going to be a lot of people on both sides holding their breath for 90 minutes. >> 100%, yeah. beginning probably with aides very close to the two candidates. i think it is fascinating. i think the fact that they're going to be -- they're going to shut off the mics is, i think, as john said, potentially, you know, kind of a backhanded break for donald trump because he did look -- it was a disastrous in 2020. i think a corollary to that is what's the cutaway going to look like? are we going tong get to see exasperated expressions and sighing, which actually was hurtful to al gore in 2000, if you think about it. so is that going to supplant the interruption? is that going to be the other counterpoint we'll see in real time? that should be fascinating, also. but 90 minutes for people that age, and people who, you know, can sometimes mangle all kinds of sentences and facts and so forth, especially trump on

facts, is going to be quite a challenge for the moderators. also, i think it'll be very fascinating to watch.sc i think that we will get a pretty unfiltered view of what these twonf guys are like in a very high-stakes situation over a longig period of time. i just want to say that biden has haoutperformed expectationsn these settings, you know, several times, beginning with the last state of the union address. >> but who knows? >> it'll bee fascinating to watch. >>fa never know. let's bring in member of "the new york times" editorial board, mara gay. mara, good to have you back on the show. so the challenge for, i think, the biden campaign during these debates is preparing joe biden for kind of this impossible-to-wrangle, chaotic candidate who doesn't actually depend on facts and history and truth. he goes any which way, and it

doesn't matter. that can be challenging when you're trying to have the short wins, those little clips that get used and amplified days and weeks after a debate. >> i wish i could sit in on the debate prep. i mean, i don't know who is playing donald trump, but there is a lot at play and a lot of work needs to be done.y i think the rules favor the audience, most importantly, to get the best sense for americans of whereor these two men stand d what their differences are. it's really important that this stage is not used as an actual stage for donald trump, for one of his rallies. he shouldn't be able to go on like that. i actually have a background in tabloids, and i think sometimes that it can be very damaging if a candidate doesn't have a quick and good and clear answer. and isn't able to deliver that in a short amount of time. so i don't know that donald

trump is going to -- that this is going to favor donald trump. i think it may actually show that he opportunity have answers for the american people that are serious. he's not policy based. people that are watching these debates are going to be looking forto that, not red meat. >> right. what i don't see on that list is what happens if a candidate delivers a falsehood, a blatant lie? is that something they're going to debate? are they going to debate whether or not something is true, or is that going to be just not accepted straight on? >> well, i mean, it's not the moderators' job. it is not cnn's job to mute the lies. it would be joe biden's job to call out those lies. i will say, john heilemann, that it is, first of all, going to be absolutely fascinating. there's not going to be a studio audience there. >> right. >> so whoever says something that is off, there's just going

to be dead silence. that's going to hang -- that's going to hang in the air. but it is just going to be so fascinating to see, again, what are the viral moments going to be? at the end of the day, are we just going to have both sides saying, hey, look at our clips? look at -- you know, think of all the cheap fakes "the new york post" and fox news and fill in the blank, the people that have been pushing cheap fakes over the past several weeks are going to get out of the debate on biden's side. on trump's side, think of all the crazy statements where he wanders off into left field. think of the crazy statements they'll have for that. i wonder if all they're going to -- i wonder if this is just going to be a content machine for both sides. >> well, i think for sure it is going to be, joe. although, you know, t'was ever v

thus, in the era of social media, both sides of any presidential debate repurposed material to suit their spin purposes. this will be, though, as you point out, different in the sense that a lot of times, the viral moments have been almost always determined by the reaction of the hecrowd. even though the commission on presidential debates would point out that in general election debates, unlike republican primary debates in places like hilton head where you hear people -- you know, you have ruckus crowds cheering and screaming, you didn't really see that in general election debates because the commission kept a good lockdown on that. you would hear laughter occasionally. you would hear, you know -- you could feel the audience. those were often the moments that turned out to be viral. mika, to your point, you know, i don't think there is a -- the question you raised earlier i wanted to try to answer for you. what cnn has said is that the moderators, jake tapper and dana bash, are going to, quote, use all tools at their disposal to

enforce timing and ensure a civilized discussion. i would guess, both from the perspective of live television, it'd be veryiv hard to moderate debate if you did not know if somebody else had control over the mics, right? my guess is jake and dana will have the mute buttons. i also would guess, on the basis of g at least the way that jake and dana have previously conducted themselves in these em situations, is they are going to do some real-time fact checking if the candidates utter obvious falsehoods. >> yeah. >> that's the way those two have -- they're serious journalists and made a great effort in general on cnn, among those two at least, to not allow there to be blatant falsehoods stated on the air. nobody is perfect in this area, but my guess is they'll try to make this debate one, as it says here, a civilized debate and also, to the extent possible, a truthful debate. i agree with joe.

last thing i'll say, ultimately in thesey, debates, you can't ry on then' moderators to do this. ultimately, the job of calling b.s. on donald trump, as a politicalas matter and as a performance matter, is going to come down to joe biden. if he does that, he'll take up some of that. he can't wait for the moderators tor do that work. joe biden has to do it some himself. >> i think the challenge, heilemann, is if the other candidate's mic is cut and donald trump, if the past is prescient, sometimes will deliver lie after lie after lie and say it again and again and again. if there is not the opportunity to say, "that's a lie, i'm sorry, that's a lie. i have to stop you right there. that's a y lie." you can't really -- we can't debate that because that is a lie. if you don't have the opportunity to respond in real time, then you have two minutes of lies, of disinformation about perhaps the 2020 election. >> right.

>> or whatever else it is that he may bring to the table. i'm saying this because it's happened before. moderators have been driven right over and backed up on in this. muted mic on the other side, i think, s causes a problem when e is trying to catch a candidate who is not telling the truth and has a propensity for doing so. what do you f think? >> well, i think, look, as i said at the top and as mark suggested earlier and i agree with, this is an experiment. i can understand why. the muted mic was something the biden campaign wanted. theyde pressed for it when they did the initialwh negotiations over getting this debate set up. i do think it is, for a variety of reasons, it's a brave, new world. we've never -- we've not had that in presidential general election debates before. it does -- there's the

production -- there's the questions of, you know, who is in charge of it? you have a lot to do when moderating a presidential debate. think of the next question. monitor the time limit on the candidates. also then to be thinking about the mute button at the same n time, that's a lot for even two very skilled journalists to take on. >> it's a lot. >> it's novel. it is unprecedented. >> yeah. >> we don't really know how it'll work out. i agree with you, at the highest level, donald trump presents unprecedented, unique challenges to any presidential debate he ever steps on stage in. there's no way around that. everyone is going to have to, whether it is joe biden or the moderators, are going to have to be very well prepared and ready for all the things that trump may or may not do in this debate, if it is going to be in any way helpful to the voters to deciding what the outcome of the election is. >> they have two great moderators. if anyone has a chance -- go ahead, mark. >> i was going to say, i think trump, in lieu of an audience,

because he plays off an audience much more than biden does, might actually make some kind of attack, premedicated or whatever, on jake and dana. that would give him sort of the second opponent he wants. he can, you know, run against the media, which he loves to do, and create the scenes he thrives on. >> good point. still ahead on "morning joe," we're going to dive into donald trump's past. as our next guest says, the former president's reality show helped catapult him into the white house. plus, we'll play for you president biden's latest warning about the possible consequences of a second trump presidency. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. an alternative to pills, voltaren is a clinically proven arthritis pain relief gel, which penetrates deep to target the source of pain with nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory medicine directly at the source. voltaren, the joy of movement.

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and existing customers could even get up to triple the speeds at no additional cost. from the company with 99.9% network reliability and advanced cyber security, it's ultimate speed for ultimate business. and it's all from comcast business. welcome back. it is 26 past the hour. we're getting a new look at how independent voters feel about donald trump's recent criminal conviction. according to new polling from "politico" magazine and ipsos, 53% of independents believe donald trump is guilty of the charges he was convicted of last month. 32% also say the guilty verdict makes them less likely to support him at the ballot box. and 21% of independents say trump's conviction is important to their november vote and makes

them less likely to support him. let's bring in senior writer for "politico" magazine, ankush kaddouri, and at the department of justice, he specialized in white collar and financial crime. thank you for coming on the show this morning. the polling is interesting, seeming to reflect that some people are pretty moved by the conviction of donald trump by a jury of 12 peers, yet the trump campaign keeps characterizing it as biden's justice department attacking him. do you think that that will break through? >> look, i think that it does seem to have had some affect on some portion of the american electorate. as you noted, you know, this is a net negative issue for trump, across the american population generally and across independents specifically. one of the things that struck me about the results of our poll

was that there's still a large amount of skepticism or uncertainty around some sort of key facts here, including among independents about whether joe biden was directly involved with bringing this case, whether the justice department was directly involved. these things are not true. yet, you have substantial numbers of republicans and independents who either say they believe them or don't know. a sizable number of people think that the case was brought to help joe biden. i think that those numbers suggest that donald trump's messaging in this area, which is largely not been counteracted up until now, may have had some effect. at the same time, you know, there are a sizable number of people, about a third of respondents generally and independents who say they still don't understand the case very well. as you folks were just talking about, next week, there's going to be a debate. it'll be the first time these men are on the same stage together talking about this issue. there are a lot of dates between now and november, including trump's sentencing and alvin bragg's testimony that could

shape how people view this prosecution and the result. >> right. >> i think there's some real, live variables here in this literally unprecedented situation. >> totally. >> you know, john heilemann, first of all, if people think that joe biden's justice department was responsible for this and responsible for the conviction, well, they're just not trying very hard. i'm sorry. i love to say, well, i can understand how people -- no, i can't understand how people would be so ill informed or so biased -- >> what about hunter? >> -- that they'd be pushed off to think a jury of 12 jurors in a new york state case was -- that this somehow was masterminded by joe biden. they're just not trying very hard to not be stupid. that's number one. number two, i've got to say, you know, we're talking about a 50/50 race in wisconsin, a 50/50

race in michigan, a 50/50 race in pennsylvania. you know where i'm going. if 7% of republicans are less likely to vote for him because of the conviction and 21% of independents are less likely to vote for him because of the conviction, you don't need a majority. you don't need a plurality. you just need numbers like that to swing all three of those races and the election, if, in fact, the numbers hold. >> right. joe, the biden campaign talks a lot about 6% in six states. 6% of the vote in six states, the available, persuadable electorate. that's what they think roughly. some might say 7%, some states more like 5%, but you and i have you been talking about this some time. it's a margin race, so it'll been won or loss on the margins. the things that will sway this election in michigan, wisconsin, pennsylvania, probably the key three states for biden's path

back to the white house, are going to be things that move voters. you'll say, that's not very important, only moving 2% or 3% of the vote. well, 2% or 3% of the vote could end up being the amount that ends up determining the election. ankush, i wanted to ask about that in that context. since we're talking about things that are very small changes in the electoral preferences and very small target of an audience. on the basis of the polling that you've been writing about here, i know you have data on this, about how much the sentencing matters. not just the guilty verdict itself, but does it matter whether donald trump is sentenced to jail time or not? how does that move the needle on the matter? >> it is interesting. we also asked what people think the appropriate punishment should be. you know, most people don't think he should go to prison. that's held at least for this

case. obviously, there's a bunch of other cases. the sentencing will focus americans on the reality of the situation and potential consequence, whether it is a potential proposed period of incarceration that would be maybe served down the line, subject to november, appeals and all that, or a fine or probation or something like that. but the sentencing, i think, as important as what the ultimate conclusion will be, will be how the judge approaches it, how he frames what he decides to do, and how the media interprets it. obviously, if trump were hauled off to prison, that'd be a major event. that's not going to happen on july 11th, however, the sentencing date. you know, the day after that, alvin bragg will be scheduled -- is scheduled to testify in front of congress. we're going to be seeing a series of events, starting with the debate next week, that are going to shape voters' perceptions of this. the thing i took away, among everything else from the poll, is that this conviction is an

issue, meaning a capital a and capital i, meaning an issue that can be persuasion and it can be shaped by the media. at the margins, it may matter for certain voters. just like in 2016, you may have a litany of issues that matter to voters at the margin. this may be one. abortion may be an issue for a different group of people. economy may be the issue for a different group of people. i think we're going to be seeing a steadily progressing series of events that will help shape the public's views. starting with next week, i think it'll be very, very vital for the biden campaign to really sharpen its message here. >> senior writer for politico magazine, ankush khardori, thank you very much for your reporting this morning. a new book out tomorrow is shedding light on how donald trump's time hosting the reality

tv show "the apprentice" cemented his image as a successful businessman and ultimately helped catapult him into the white house. in "apprentice in wonderland, how donald trump and mark burnett took america through the looking glass," the author, ramin setoodeh, talks about the reality show, getting the public hooked on his make america great again message. setoodeh shares behind the scenes secret, including how trump was humiliated by his initial salary of $25,000 per episode. so he hatched a poorly received plan to become one of the richest men in television by asking for $6 million per episode, equal to the combined salary of the cast of "friends" at the time. the author of "apprentice in wonderland," ramin joins us now.

also co-editor in chief for "variety." good to have you on this morning. >> thank you. >> it is fascinating. you talk about this "alice in wonderland, through the looking glass" thing that was created by trump and burnett. i still remember businesspeople in manhattan dying laughing at the prospect of donald trump being this great businessman when they all had stories about, you know, his bankruptcies or his failure to pay bills or you name it, his bad judgment as a businessperson and, yet, tv made this reality true for millions of americans. donald trump has dined off it since. >> this is the story. this is the reason why donald trump became president of the united states. this is the reason why he is now the nominee and could become president of the united states again. i think the important thing about this book, what i want everyone to know, it is based on

a lot of access to donald trump. i interviewed him starting in 2021. i, as a journalist, spent more time with him than any other journalist since he left the white house on the record. we talked a total of six times. we were sitting together in the board room at trump tower watching clips of "the apprentice" together. yes, this is the show and the warped reality we all live in, but it is also a president in exile. trump's mental temperament after the white house. his fixation on revenge. joe, he's still fixated on you. he spoke in detail about an interview you did in 2015. lawrence o'donnell was questioning how much money he made off "the apprentice." most presidents post presidency are thinking of happier thoughts, moving on with their life, but he was remembering every negative thing anyone said. this book is also a warning. donald trump knows how to use the media. he's never been taken out.

people keep saying, okay, trump era is over. but he won't leave because he is a reality star. reality stars really know how to captivate their audience. >> ramin -- >> by the way, really quickly, that's just reminder, we don't do this so much anymore, but for a guy that never watches our show, hi, donald. mara, next question. >> like you, joe, i grew up in new york, actually. my memory is similar to joe's memory of this show, which is kind of, you know, looking at the show and thinking, is this guy for real? i mean, i knew as a kid even that -- i knew about the bankruptcies. i knew about the central park five case. i knew that he was desperate to be an insider in new york society but really was never an insider. can you talk a little bit about actually what it is about the show that you think really resonated with so many americans outside new york and led us to this point? what was it about "the

apprentice" and this idea that he had that seemed to make him relatable? >> "the apprentice" premiered in 2004. i just moved to new york city, worker at newsweek, and covered the show. i had a lot of access to donald trump going back 20 years. at the time, what was so groundbreaking, there was "survivor," "fear factor," but aimed at the lowest common denominator. "the apprentice" was smart reality tv, teaching you about business. a lot of people had jobs, millenials, 20s and 30s at the time, saw it as aspirational reality tv. they could show how smart they were on the show, and donald trump was the voice of judgment. he decided who was good, who wassed bad. he went to the board room, hired someone, and could make $250,000 a year. donald trump, because of the editing he got, the way in which mark burnett, who created the

show portrayed him, people thought he was smart, funny, a good family man, and he was very good at business. that image is the image that made him president of the united states. those are the voters, the millions of people that watched "the apprentice" for the 14 seasons donald trump hosted it, that became his base. >> yeah. i mean, you look at it. you can took at "the apprentice," look at "the art of the deal," as far as branding goes, yeah, pretty extraordinary for where he ended up going. i remember after "the apprentice" came out, mika, a couple things. first of all, my son then at the time who was 12 or something like that, starts walking around the house going, "you're fired." this is breaking through, number one. >> definitely breaking through. >> number one. number two, i remember driving around lower manhattan, cabdriver. >> right. >> i always interview people that are driving me around. hey, how you doing? where are you from?

how is your day? when did you get to america, whatever? i remember one guy somedaying to saying to me, i've been driving a cab now for six months, i'll save enough money, buy a car, then i'll get two, then i'll have four, and one day, i'm going to be just like trump. i sat there thinking, probably 2005, 2006, you know what? talk about a brand resonating. >> yeah, for sure. >> this is -- this really is. >> ramin, i'm wondering if you've taken a look -- there are so many episodes. you hear rumblings about outtakes and what the fate of those are. i guess they're not legally gettable and seeable, but, apparently, there's a lot to learn about donald trump, not only in the episodes but the outtakes. >> he was mic'd the entire time, and he loved being in the board room.

he didn't understand why there had to be extra stuff with the contestants. not surprisingly, he wanted the camera to be on himself. the board room scenes would -- on tv, they were ten minutes, but they'd go on sometimes three, four hours. he was mic'd during all of that. i asked him about the tape, the alleged tape that exists where he allegedly said the n-word, and he denied it. mark burnett denied it, said there is no bunker in which that tape exists. but that has been something that's followed him and persisted. people have talked about it. the other thing that i think is really interesting, because i got to know donald trump post-presidency, got to see what he was like. over the weekend, he was talking about how joe biden needs to take a cognitive test, joe biden isn't all there. donald trump had severe memory issues. as the journalist who spent the most time with him, i have to say, he couldn't remember things. he couldn't even remember me. we spent an hour together in 2021 in may, then a few months later, i went back to the -- i went back to trump tower to talk about his time in the white

house. i said -- you know, he had this vacant look. i said, do you remember me? he said, no. we had no recollection of the lengthy interview we had, and he wasn't doing a lot of interviews at that time. the american public really needs to see this portrait of donald trump. this shows what he is like and who he is and who he has always been. >> ramin, i'm curious why you think he talked to you so much. it seems he's obviously -- he loves the identity of being a tv star. i mean, that's self-evident. but why you? why do you think he talked so much? why do you think that his people were so willing to let you do it? >> he was very excited to talk to me. he actually reached out to me when the book was announced. as the editor in chief of "variety," he has affection for "variety." he has the "variety" ratings from the "apprentice" framed on his wall. he wanted to talk to me about show business. he was excited that someone was interested in going back and revisiting "the apprentice"

because it is something he has fond memories of. he was excited about it, and he was broadly loved when host of "the apprentice. and as president of the united states, he wasn't. he is aware of that. he liked the interviews, when i showed the opening theme song of the show, he lit up and was very, very happy. watching him firing omarosa, he was very, very happy. we visited key scenes on the show in trump tower, and it was the happiest he was. then he would talk about being president, and he would become gloomy, upset, and resentful. then he'd have his list of enemies. >> wow. >> i'm curious, i saw a headline on top of you while you were saying something that said that donald trump -- that "the apprentice" was donald trump's proudest achievement. would you put that on par with him being elected president of

the united states? the success in breaking through during "the apprentice," is that what he's still the proudest of? >> absolutely, no question about it. that's from "the washington post." they have an excerpt of the book today. he said to me that he would go back and forth about whether or not he'd still be president without "the apprentice." a lot of people around him said he wouldn't have been president. he told me that he didn't know if he would have run for president if it wasn't for "the apprentice." that is how important it was. i talked to eric trump so said it taught the family to be public, to be in the media. it taught their father to react in debates. next week, he'll be debating joe biden. he's going to be using the tactics he learned in the board room when he'd be around celebrities or other con seese ta contestants, undermine them, be funny, silly, ridiculous. for whatever reason, it works for him. politically, if you are a politician, without the training, it is very hard to keep up. >> yeah, fascinating. >> the new book is entitled "apprentice in wonderland, how

donald trump and mark burnett took america through the looking glass. and goes on sale tomorrow. ramin setoodeh, congratulations on the book. thank you for coming on the show this morning. we appreciate it. >> thank you for having me. coming up, some ideas for your summer reading list. need some? okay, we'll go through "the atlantic's" suggestions, which include a mix of new books, buzz buzzy titles, and forgotten classics. plus, the surgeon general is calling on congress to require new tobacco style warnings for social media platforms. >> about time. >> it is beginning. we'll dig into that ahead on "morning joe." tamra, izzy and emma... no one puts more love into logistics than these three. you need them. they need a retirement plan. work with principal so we can help you with a plan that's right for your team.

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♪♪ welcome back to "morning joe." john heilemann, i thank you for sending me magazine's 100 best bostonians a few years ago. >> yes. >> they still had with all apologies to mark levy, they still had bill russell at number 11. number one, john and abigail adams, it seemed like, you know, pretty good pick. i was fascinated by all of these people, including julia child, w.b. da boys.

number ten sticks out in my mind, william rosenberg, founder of dunkin' donuts, maker of our most sacred beverage. >> you can't fight with the adams family, so to speak, and -- >> no. >> at number one. the great bostonians of our time. i think you can't really -- you can't really have a beef with some of the other people who are on this list. i do think i would put bill russell ahead of the founder of dunkin' donuts. nothing against dunkin', but bill russell -- they have malcolm x on that list. a lot of people don't know that malcolm x was originally born in boston. that's a good -- a very good poll. they have lewis brandeis on the list, of course, john f. kennedy, not a big shock there. ralph waldo emerson, who can fight with ralph waldo emerson, even over bill russell.

there's a couple that i'm -- i mean, really, tim burnsers lee invented the worldwide web more important than bill russell as a bostonian? i don't think so. >> no. >> while we are on the topic of lists "the atlantic" is out with its picks for best books to check out this summer. the magazine's summer reading guide features 25 books both old and new. joining us now is the senior editor for books at "the atlantic." thank you so many for coming on. first tell us how you picked these as the best. >> well, you know, we tried to sort of mirror the way that people actually pick books they're going to read over the summer, which is not to obvious. you think that everyone wants the latest crime novel or a breezy book to read at the beach but there's a lot of different kinds of books that somebody want to read, somebody wants to read a long biography, somebody wants to delve back into a classic. we had seven different categories based on vibes more than anything else, including,

you know, starting the book you want to read all summer, you know, visiting -- transporting yourself to a different world, delving into somebody else's mind, books that are more sort of nonfiction deep dives. there is a real variety and we also didn't want to limit ourselves to books that came out just this summer. >> so having worked in many news rooms i have to ask the question did this come together in a way where you said to members of the staff, give us your favorite recommendations, or was this more of -- you brought up vibes. is this "the atlantic" telling us, hey, america, hey, world, we think these are the books that you might want to check out at this time in history? "the atlantic" is a wonderful old legacy brand. tell us how much to read into this. >> it's definitely more the former, you know, that it's we

went around and we said what are you looking forward to reading? what have you read that you really loved and we have this wonderful newsroom with lots of smart people who had great suggestions. we do a list at the end of the year that's sort of our -- we call it "the atlantic" ten which is very much our sort of attempt to be authoritative about what was best and worth reading that year, but this is a lot more sort of, you know -- it's just sort of -- it's whimsical in the sense that it's based on how -- the books that people are excited about, the books that people have loved in the past and want to thrust into your arms. >> so, look, you have these seven categories, transport yourself to another place, learn something completely new, start the book you will read all summer. that's a very long book, is that what you're saying? >> that is a very long book. >> i don't want to talk about those. i don't want long books, i want books with pictures, i want books that are short and punchy. there's one in here, "feel wonder about the universe." i see you have a list here, on

your list you have a book by emanuel carrera that's called "lives other than my own" it falls into this category. talk to me about that book because i want to feel some wonder about something. >> okay. i love this book. this is a french author, emanuel carare, he writes in an auto fictional style, if you know that expression, what we might call memoires here, they call them novels in france. >> element of memoire and fiction not exactly factual but based on your own experience. >> the thing you have to know with a carare book is you're surrendering yourself when you go into his mind and where his mind about wander. this book starts off in sri lanka, happens to be there during the devastating tsunami that happened a few years ago and he befriends a family whose daughter has drowned, has been killed in the tsunami, and then the book sort of meanders, he goes back to paris where he's

from and he starts investigating the life of his girlfriend's sister who was a judge who just died of cancer. the book, you know, if i try to explain it to you as i am it feels like a very meandering thing, but it's really a meditation on death, on what the value of life actually has, you know, he's really digging into these deep issues by letting his curiosity and interest in other people follow him. it's hard to explain, but i really -- i really encourage people to read this book, it's from a few years ago. >> interesting. >> mark leibovich -- mark leibovich, if you weren't also at "the atlantic". >> exactly. >> i want everybody to know -- >> it's important. >> -- that -- thank you for your servitude. >> servitude, yeah. >> and this town, which are on the "morning joe" summer reading list. >> of course. >> would be on this summer reading list. >> perennial. >> perennial, yeah, perennials, year in, year out. >> yeah, books that make you

wonder why are they on the list? i guess to sort of bring "the atlantic" -- by the way, ralph waldo emerson was number two on the list but he was also the founder of "the atlantic." gal, i would ask you this and i have a million questions, because we're colleagues i can ask you a million questions. since this list came out it sparked a great deal of discussion. what are a couple examples of books that you have been kicking yourself over because they were not on the list and they have been brought to your attention or you've been reminded of them in the subsequent chatter after the pieces came out? >> i will tell you one and i mention it because it's a book i've started reading and i was like we should have put this on the list, it's adam higginbotham's new book about the challenge disaster. it's his second book, he did a book about chernobyl a few years ago that was turned into an hbo series. this is a book that looks at a different 1986 tragedy, the

tragedy of the challenger explosion, but he delves into meticulous detail into the lives of the astronauts who were killed and just the engineering disaster that happened with that explosion. how they missed all the signs. sort of what led to that day, which having been a child at the time and watched the explosion on television in my fourth grade classroom was really, really fascinating to go back to and just -- and what higginbotham does so well is he's a narrative -- he's a storyteller. so you get things that you never thought -- you know, information that you never thought existed about the disaster. >> joe, i'd say that gal's books, this list, is a little over our heads. that's all i'd say. there's a lot -- these are not breezy summer beach reads. it's like the challenger disaster and people -- >> we're "the atlantic." >> so grim. give me a baseball book here, some roger angel, for god sakes.

>> "the atlantic" summer reading guide is online now. gal beckerman, thank you for bringing this list to us, we appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. >> all right. take care. coming up, donald trump says the fact that he has black friends proves he's not a racist. >> that will do it. >> yeah. >> so he thinks. >> reverend al is standing by with his take. >> some of my best friends. also ahead -- ♪ where dreams are made of ♪ ♪ there's nothing you can't do ♪ ♪ now you're in new york ♪ ♪ these streets will make you feel brand-new ♪♪ >> we're going to bring you the highlights and surprises from the tony awards last night and show you the actors who took home their first ever tony. plus, oscar nominated actor jesse eisenberg will join us

live in studio to discuss his off-broadway play "preexisting condition." we're back in 90 seconds. we're back i90n seconds want to save on some of the biggest names in streaming on the network made for streaming? x marks the spot. now you can add the new xfinity streamsaver™ that includes netflix, peacock, and apple tv+. that's xfinity streamsaver™ for just $15 a month. all your favorites. all in one place. only from xfinity. for more watching and less spending... x marks the spot.

do it all on the network made for streaming, and bring on the good stuff. joe biden has no plan, he's got absolutely no plan. he doesn't even know what the word "inflation" means. i don't think if he took a test. i think he should take a cognitive test. i took a cognitive test and i aced it.

doc ronnie johnson -- does everyone know ronnie johnson, congressman from texas, he was the white house doctor. no, actually they don't know him. they don't know ronnie johnson. >> i don't know ronnie johnson. who is ronnie johnson. >> there's nothing like messing up the name of the doctor who actually administered your own cognitive test who is sitting in the audience. >> person, man, woman, horse, ronnie johnson. >> the name of the trump's former white house physician turned u.s. congressman is ronny jackson. >> wait, what? >> not johnson. >> what? >> good morning. and welcome to "morning joe." >> that's kind of confusing. >> it's monday, june 17th. so what else is new, right? with us we have nbc news national affairs analyst and a partner and chief political columnist at puck john heilemann. >> john heinz.

>> associate editor for the "washington post" and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson. chief white house correspondent for "the new york times" peter baker and the co-host of msnbc's "the weekend" also doing "way too early," symone sanders-townsend. thanks for all of you being here early on monday morning. >> so, john heilemann, i'm thinking this politics thing, i'm guessing if you are going to make fun of your opponent for being cognitively disconnected from facts and figures, it's probably good for you to not be disconnected cognitively from facts and figures as donald trump was this weekend. >> well, jim, it's good to see you this morning here on monday. or is it chuck? chuck scarborough? jim scarborough? no, joe. joe scarborough. >> yeah. >> glass houses, man, you don't want to be throwing stones. >> yeah.

>> people live in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones, that's all i will say about that. >> you know, and the thing is, too, it's getting really more obvious, mika, that they have -- the trump campaign has -- understands they have a serious problem with donald trump on facts, on issues, on you name it, because they have to keep engaging in cheap fakes to try to make joe biden look bad. they did it this weekend, they've done it over the past several weeks. they've got the new york post doing it. the rnc is doing it. all of these right wing stooges on x are doing it. if you have to make stuff up -- you have to make stuff up, obviously you don't feel like you have a strong enough campaign to win outright. >> no, they're grasping in many different ways. that's just trump being trump, getting names and information wrong and i don't think he

cares. our top story -- >> well, you know, i fear having a president like that, i really do, with storm clouds of world war ii on the horizon. >> oh, yeah. oh, for sure. absolutely. our top story this hour, the biden campaign took in a record haul at a star-studded fundraiser over the weekend. the campaign says it raised more than $30 million in los angeles saturday breaking the record for the democratic party's largest fundraising event ever. nbc news could not independently verify that claim. president biden appeared at the event alongside former president barack obama, george clooney, julia roberts, jimmy kimmel. kimmel actually moderated a conversation. at one point asking president biden about the supreme court, and the possibility that the next president will likely have an opportunity to appoint two justices and what voters can do about that.

>> elect me. i will tell you why. no, i'm not just saying -- the next president is likely to have two new supreme court nominees. two more. two more. he's already appointed two that are -- have been very negative in terms of the rights of individuals. the idea that if he's reelected he's going to appoint two more flying flags upside down is really -- i really mean it. >> could this be the scariest part of all of it? >> well, i think it is one of the scariest parts. look, the supreme court has never been as out of kilter as it is today. i mean, never. i taught constitutional law for nine years, this guy knows more about it than most. look, the fact of the matter is this has never been a court that's been this far out of step. taking -- and, by the way, when we said after the decision that overruled roe v. wade, the dobbs

decision, you had clarence thomas talking about the fact that there were going to be other things we should reconsider, including in vitro fertilization, including contraception, including all these things. and they're -- by the way -- >> including same-sex marriage. >> by the way, not on my watch. not on my watch. >> boy, you know, peter baker, this has proven to be such a key issue when you look at what's happened in '22, in '23 and a lot of the special elections of that time, even in red states like kansas, kentucky have gone overwhelmingly for choice on this issue. now you add ivf that's now been thrown into the mix, you add contraceptions that have been thrown into the mix. the biden campaign really does believe this is going to be one of the most vital issues for their base, don't they? >> they do.

and what you hear the president doing there is even expanding beyond the issues specifically of abortion rights to say, okay, the first step on their path toward reversing a whole series of rights, right? one of the themes that they have emphasized again and again was the idea of freedom. freedom is a word republicans have used pretty successfully over the years and the biden campaign wants to take the word back a little bit, talk being not just women's rights but as he pointed out there lgbtq rights and the rights of any married couple or a non-married couple as defined by the supreme court way back in the '60s to have the ability to decide when to have contraception and when not and all of those kinds of things. i think he's pointing to a future that sounds dark and scary in order to try to galvanize democratic voters. they may be upset with him about age or inflation or whatever else. he's trying to say, look, there's a lot at stake here, things that you really care about that will be on the table if you are not getting out to vote.

>> and, you know, mika, peter brings up such a great point, underlining such an important point that democrats are taking back the word freedom. for years the nra, support freedom, vote scarborough, support freedom, vote whoever they thought was right on gun issues. now you have democrats talking about freedom and i will tell you i've seen some focus groups where it really cuts through, where libertarians are saying -- libertarians are now saying, wait a second, this government can hardly do anything right, in their opinion, why in the world are we going to turn our bodies over to them to make decisions about health care? in this focus group, that was a man speaking in a swing state. >> right. >> so this is about freedom and you see the freedom of women that also, i think, for a lot of men they see if that could happen with the women they love, it could also happen to them. >> i think in this election the supreme court is definitely taking center stage for a lot of

people who might not have thought of it so much in their vote, but with alito hanging flags upside down at his house and then lying about it. >> his wife. >> bold-face -- we don't know if his wife did it. we don't know if anything they're saying is true. there was some altercation with a neighbor where the wife was called a bad name. that happened after the flag was hung upside down outside their house and at their beach house. we don't know what their -- what the truth is about that because they keep lying about it. so that's one supreme court justice. then you have clarence thomas, who literally refuses to follow ethics rules when it comes to taking gifts from republican donors. refuses. i mean, he's been asked now for several years to please cough up the information, and he keeps forgetting $250,000 plane flights. i mean, it is the u.s. supreme court. and, symone, for women -- and

you're right, joe, the men who love them, the man who are exclude into the pain of losing 50 years of health care rights it's causing to women right now. this is front and center, this isn't some sort of issue in the background for this election, for women it's life and death. >> it is very, very true, mika. we had dr. nesbitt on our show on this past weekend and dr. nesbitt used to be head of the d.c. department of health, now she's at georgetown, she's been a board certified health physician for ten years. she gave the example of what about young women who are diagnosed with cancer? in their early 20s or late 20s, mid 30s and the doctor tells them that you need to freeze -- we suggest you freeze your eggs if you want to have the option of having a family later in life and this supreme court -- some of the justices are poised to take that option away. you have republicans across the country that are poised to remove that option away for young cancer patients, women who

are literally being told they must be on death's doorstep before they can be helped and saved. les we forget we are waiting on a decision from the supreme court on idaho, on right now what's happening in idaho on if a woman who is pregnant comes into the emergency room, her right to be saved, to be helped, to be stabilized. idaho says, well, if she's pregnant we need to make sure the baby is intact and we don't want to do anything to hurt the baby. under idaho right now what idaho would like to do is to potentially let that woman, again, be knocking on death's doorstep before they do anything for her. coming up, a former white house staffer says donald trump discussed executing people during multiple white house meetings. we will take a look at those remarks and what they could mean for the kind of retribution trump might seek if reelected. t. my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis held me back... now with skyrizi, i'm all in with clearer skin.

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upwork is half the cost of our old recruiter and they have top-tier talent and everything from pr to project management because this is how we work now. now to former trump white house communications director alyssa farah griffin saying former president trump often discussed executing people at white house meetings. speaking with media on friday griffin highlighted an april interview from former attorney general bill barr where he was asked if he remembered a time when trump called for a leaker to be executed.

here is what he told cnn. >> alyssa farrah griffin who was trump's communications director posted yesterday and said that you were present at a moment when trump suggested executing the person who leaked information that he went to the white house bunker when those george floyd protests were happening outside the white house. do you remember that? >> i remember him being very mad about that. i actually don't remember him saying executing, but, you know, i wouldn't dispute it, you know? i mean, it doesn't sound -- the president would lose his temper and say things like that. i doubt he would have actually carried it out. i don't -- you know -- >> but he would say that on other occasions? >> the president -- you know, the president had -- i think people sometimes took him too literally and, you know, he would say things like similar to that on occasions to blow off steam, but i wouldn't take him literally every time he did it. >> oh, you mean like he will get

rid of roe, that's just blowing off steam. griffin went further saying trump had called for executions multiple times. >> and bill barr kind of said i don't recall that specific instance, but there were others where he talked about executing people. i'm like how you rationalize that that is a person fit in sound judgment to be president of the united states. they're reading the tea leaves, they know there's a very real chance he's going to be president again and there is not a lot of glory or like victory in being right but being on the wrong side of trump. i think that's ultimately what it comes down to. >> so, gene, let's get this right. the attorney general of the united states -- >> yeah. >> -- heard the commander in chief calling for the execution of staff members. >> yeah. >> and then when he is asked about it after he's made clear that he is going to endorse for president the man who is calling

for the execution of staff members, because i guess barr is shocked and stunned by joe biden's like student debt relief plan, that's where they always run to. oh, well young january 6th was bad calling for the execution of staff members are bad, what about joe biden's three-tier plan to relieve students of their debt? which they actually do. they actually -- >> yes. >> that's their go to. you think january 6th was bad? but here we have a guy who is attorney general, a lawyer -- i will just tell you lawyers -- you know, i'm not even a good lawyer, but you get lawyers in conversations, they remember things. they have the dictaphone being and they have it going in their heads. you hear something like that you are trained for your mind to set that apart. all right, the president of the united states just said we

should execute staffers for leaking. >> yeah. >> i mean, what barr says is so laughable and what alyssa said is so chilling that we -- >> so scary. >> that we actually have republicans -- so scary -- we actually have republicans that are going to go out and endorse a guy who called for the execution of fellow staff members and then claims he doesn't remember it. >> yeah. yeah. i don't specifically remember that, but i won't deny it, right? >> right. >> i wouldn't say that he -- i won't say that he didn't call for execution of staffers, because that's the sort of thing he did, right? that's the sort of thing he said. >> right. >> this is insane, right? i mean, step back for a second. we are talking about the president of the united states talking about how members of his staff should be executed for, you know, leaking information that he didn't want leaked,

which was not national security information or anything, it's just something that he thinks is embarrassing to him. absolutely unprecedented and insane and we shouldn't -- you know, like a lot of things that trump is saying now, we shouldn't just sort of walk past it and say, as bill barr said, oh, well, people were taking him too literally. i'm sorry, but that's like the only way i know how to take people, right? i mean, i can't -- you know, when you say i want to execute that person and you are the president of the united states, i have to take you literally when you stand in front of a rally in las vegas and talk about, you know, boats and electrocution and sharks, i have to take you literally. i don't know how to take it otherwise. this is a person who was elected president of the united states

and who has a chance of being elected again. that should cause all of us to -- just to step back and think for a minute. this is not -- this is not normal and this is not acceptable or safe for the country. >> joe, mika, i want to just think about it this way, the most charitable interpretation of what bill barr is saying here, right, is something like the president of the united states on a regular basis would blow off steam, i think that was his phrase, right? he would get mad and he would say things around the table like -- let's imagine him saying something like -- not i want to find this leaker and have him executed. let's say if i find that leaker i want to take him out on the lawn of the white house and be shot. let's say he was blowing off steam. as a matter of presidential

temperament is that the guy you want to have behind -- as the commander in chief sitting in the oval office, a guy who when he's frustrated, when he's blowing off steam -- again, to use barr's formulation -- is someone who the way in which he exercises his frustration is to casually talk about having people who work for him shot, executed in some way. i don't know if that's by hang or by a guillotine or by -- or by the firing squad. i think it speaks to a temperament that is the kind of temperament that leads you to a president of the united states who when your vice president is on capitol hill in the middle of a riot, that you have incited and the people at that riot are talking about lynching the vice president, your temperament, that person, that president is the kind of person who says i'm not going to do anything to call off the mob that i incited, i'm

just going to sit up here and let it play out and i'm going to say quietly -- according to at least some of the reports we've seen from some capitol hill -- some things from the january 6th committee, maybe our supporters have something right here, maybe mike pence deserves, this, maybe he deserves to be killed, to be strung up on the capitol grounds. i think, you know, whether -- you don't have to get all the way to donald trump was ordering the execution of staffers to think that it's a very dangerous temperament and a very dangerous mindset to have and one that shows an enormous lack of respect for the office, for the seriousness of the position and is someone who is not in control of himself in a way that you would want a president to be. coming up, donald trump makes a new appeal to black voters, but is his message resonating with the critical voting block? that discussion is next on "morning joe."

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it's 110, but it doesn't feel it to me, right? everybody was so worried yesterday about you, and they never mentioned me. i'm up here sweating like a dog. secret service said we have to make sure everyone is safe. i said what about me? oh, we never thought of that. they don't think about me. do you feel the breeze? because i don't want anybody going on me. we need every voter. i don't care about you, i just want your vote. i don't care. so if you want america and if you want to save america i'm asking everybody to go and swampthevoteusa.com to make a plan to vote either by mail or early in-person or on owe election day, just vote. i actually tell our people we don't need your vote, we've got

so many votes we don't need them, we just don't want to see votes stolen. steal the vote, we're not letting it happen. it's not happening again. >> all right. donald trump's interesting pitch to supporters that he doesn't care about them and doesn't need their votes. the first was from his infamous las vegas rally last weekend, the second from a sold out campaign event in west palm beach, florida, on friday night for his b-day. on saturday trump participated in a community round table event in detroit at a predominantly black church. trump spoke to a crowd of mostly white voters on saturday where he took credit for the record low black unemployment rate achieved under president joe biden last year. wow. that event came after trump gave an interview which focused on how trump's talk on race,

politics and masculinity has been influenced by the black men who have been part of his life and in it trump said, quote, i have so many black friends that if i were a racist, they wouldn't be friends. they would know better than anybody and fast. they would not be with me for two minutes if they thought i was racist and i'm not racist. meanwhile, democratic congressman jim clyburn who is an influential part of president biden's 2020 campaign says he doesn't think black voters are really swinging toward donald trump. clyburn told "politico" playbook deep dive podcast that democrats shouldn't be concerned. >> i don't think he needs to do anything but what he's doing. i think joe biden is doing exactly what he needs to do to win reelection. i think the polling was taken place, something is amiss with the polling. i call your attention to the

recent polls over in maryland. an african american woman running for the united states senate nomination, the sunday before the election one poll had her five down, the other poll had her seven down. and she won by 13. how do you explain that? that's 20 points. >> yeah. >> so i have no idea what's going on with polling these days, but i do know this, the polls did not have osaf and win knock winning georgia and both of them won. polls did not have macbeth getting 80% in the district but she did. anybody who believes that donald trump will get 30% of the black

male vote or 12% of the black female vote, i have a beach down there on john's island i will sell. >> you all right. gene robinson, your thoughts? >> i think he's talking about the ravenel bridge down in charleston and, you know, i guess there's some people out there who would buy it. usually when i see candidates go to an event at a black church usually there are black people there. i saw very few black people in that black church. as i told symone earlier on "way too early," i hope the church got a nice fee for, you know, it's capital fund or whatever from the trump campaign for the use of the facilities, but i think that tells you absolutely zero about african american support. >> yeah. >> in the coming election.

and, you know, i'm not necessarily quite as dismissive of polls as jim clyburn simply because i think the presidential campaign needs to worry about everything, right? >> right. >> if you have polls to look at you need to worry about that and you need to work to shore up whatever weaknesses are out there, but i do agree with him that we are not going to see any sort of wholesale migration of african american voters to donald trump. i don't see that. i don't hear that. i don't think it's going to happen. >> i mean, not off gold sneakers and white people at the black church. mika, i just -- i had to ask eugene, i said, eugene, can you have black friends and be racist and assured me that you could because that's what i thought. >> yeah. >> i hope so. but, you know, can i say just one thing about polling, mika? >> yeah. >> i think that polling for campaigns is not predict

testify, they're informative. all the campaigns i have worked on you have used the polling to inform your strategies, that is what polls should do. along those lines i do think that the current polling that is out there, i agree with, you know, mr. clyburn in the sense that i don't think that it is -- it is accurate to the point of what black voters are going to do, but i do think it indicates that there are some rightfully skeptical, some cynical voters out there in the african american community who are wondering what this -- what another biden administration means for me. and i think that the campaign knows they need to answer that question and with some of the events you have seen the president and the vice president take part in, i think they are attempting to do that. >> coming up, the latest on the war in gaza as the israeli military announces a new daily tactical pause, and prime minister netanyahu moves to disband his war cabinet. "morning joe" is coming right back. r cabinet. "morning joe" is coming right back

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[ cheers and applause ] bryson dechambeau's putt on the 18th hole to win the u.s. open, his u.s. open win and second major championship overall. the winning putt came after an incredible shot from the bunker, 55 yards from the hole, setting up that great ending at pinehurst. dechambeau rightfully called it the bunker shot of his life. meanwhile, what a sunday to forget for rory mcilroy. he had a one-stroke lead going into the 16th hole but missed a 30 inch par putt and then on the

18th hole he got about 3 feet from the cup but missed another short putt. that would drop him one stroke behind dechambeau and extend his ten-year drought in major championships. let's bring in "morning joe's" golf correspondent, the council on foreign relations richard haass and staff writer at "the atlantic" mark leibovich, also a two-time u.s. open winner, mr. leibovich. richard, take us through the ending yesterday, a lot of drama. >> a lot of drama. bryson dechambeau began the fourth day of the tournament several strokes up. rory mcilroy reversed t went up two with only about four or five to play, then you had one of the epic collapses in golf. this is a guy, joe, who had made close to 500 putts in a row of the length of the two that he missed in those last few holes. >> oh, my goodness. >> it was about as much of a mental meltdown as you see.

it's actually an interesting question, will he be able to come back from this? it was painful. and bryson dechambeau, great shot you saw at the end out of the bunker, what's called sandy out of the bunker then sank the putt, fantastic. that's a big thing, he is on the liv tour. it's also interesting the people on the liv tour are able to play in the major championships and this was an interesting thing for professional golf. great redemption for him. he was, shall we say, used to be rather unpopular with the fans. now he's popular, he is a quirky guy, the bodybuilding, 3-d printing of his golf clubs, he is a curious guy, but this will be more known as the tournament that rory lost than he won. >> yeah, that's really something. gene robinson, it reminds me of my older brother, three years older than me, loves golf, i never really did, but i would go out and golf with him in the

summers. he would be standing over here, towering over me from behind and i would putt much like rory there. what we called it was the yips. and rory got the yips. >> he kind of got the yips and did miss those two short putts. i disagree with richard haass a little bit because i think dechambeau won that tournament. he missed a short putt coming home, too. dechambeau also missed a gimme putt and so that's -- that's a shot right there. and that bunker shot on 18 was -- was tiger woods-ish. if you think about it. 55-yard bunker shot that everyone thought was essentially impossible. it would have been -- he would have been good if he would have gotten the ball within 20 feet of the hole. you know, that shot i think really won him the tournament,

otherwise they would have -- you know, he would have bogeyed the hole, they would have gone to a playoff and who knows what would have happened. let's give dechambeau his props. >> the only person to get a sandy from that bunker all day. let me tell you some heartwarming -- richard, some heartwarming news this weekend coming out of fenway. i'm so glad alex -- >> i wish you happy father's day, joe. this was not good of. >> you no, i'm just telling you i'm so happy to see -- >> joe. >> -- that alex verdugo was actually -- whatever was ailing him last year, whatever prevented him from running out routine ground balls while a member of the red sox or actually run after fly balls in the outfield, he's gotten past it. he had a good friday night so he must have a better hmo because he actually ran out ground balls

for the yankees. that said -- >> that said -- >> what a night, what a weekend for the red sox. last night the red sox, man, on fire on the bases. nine stolen bases. >> nine stolen bases. >> breaking -- nine stolen bases. there's rafaella. that kid is extraordinary. they have a bunch of young kids, they have a .500 team for some reason. the owners of the red sox decided they were going to just buy like the pga and stop sending money on baseball teams, but nobody -- none of these young kids have figured that out. they are playing like crazy and what a great week. heilemann, you are sort of moderately a red sox fan, right? i've seen you at fenway once or twice. >> sure. sure. i mean, look, i'm primarily a profound deep lifelong hater of the new york yankees so that as a kid growing up in l.a. made me

a red sox fan by proxy. this is a good -- you're right, joe, it was a good weekend out there at fenway for the -- for the good guys. always nice to see anything bad happen to the bronx blowhards. i do think on the earlier question i'd like to see richard and eugene battle it out given their conflict over the golf tournament, i'd like to get a tee time for them at winged foot and see those guys go toe to toe and potentially -- liebo is here, i think he can be their caddy, you can caddy for both and keep score. >> gene, i would have given you putts of that length, i wouldn't have made you putt them out. >> i would have given them to you, too. >> neither one of us would have missed. >> liebo, didn't you go to harvard or something? >> no, i didn't go to harvard. >> boston is not a college town. i just assume everybody on the show went to harvard but you didn't?

>> not a big college town, like they said in "spinal tap" not a big college town. i never went to harvard, i used the bathroom once there which gives me an affiliation. if you want to apply the red sox/yankees series to the u.s. open, i think the yankees lost the series more than the red sox won the series. the yankees were sort of rory mcilroy. no, it was nice to see. i would like them to have a summer that we can pay attention to and it looks like they might be doing that. >> can all the red sox fans on this show right now at least acknowledge the terrible thing that happened to mookie betts. >> my dodgers. >> horrible. horrible. >> yeah, he -- >> i told you essentially. >> you did. mika walked in and said mookie betts is injured. i never get any sports information from you. >> well, i follow it a little bit. >> who told you that? did your daughter tell you that? >> no, i was reading.

>> okay. it's horrible hearing about that fractured hand. i hope he gets better soon. >> here it is. here it is. >> here it is. terrible. >> oh, god, i hate that. >> that's a 98 mile an hour heater right on the wrist. 98 miles an hour. ouch. >> oh, god. >> aye-yai-yai. >> no surgery required alex tells me. >> yes, but out indefinitely. >> yeah, after he eps the show and is vice president for morning news, he's actually a doctor. a hand doctor at hss. yeah, exactly. so that is -- that's good to know. mark leibovich, as we sputter through this segment we actually do have a bit of high brow sports news or at least

commentary coming from "the atlantic." under your by line. about renaming boston's airport after a man who said "i don't play for the city of boston, i play for the celtics." >> yeah, i think it is high time that boston's logan airport be renamed to honor one of the greatest bostonians if not the greatest bostonian ever, bill russell. the great boston celtics center who had an incredible life, certainly as one of the sports' greatest champions if not the greatest champion, but as a civil rights giant and someone who had an incredibly fraught relationship with the city of boston during what was probably the nader of its racial history in the '60s. what bill russell is the story of is just reconciliation. i mean, certainly struggle and fighting through and really just bold statements throughout his career which was just brilliant on the court, but even more so

off the court. i remember back when obama was president and he was giving the presidential medal of freedom to russell, i think that was in 2011, obama was sort of like a big kind of silent proponent of them putting a statue up of russell in boston and they put one up in city hall plaza, mayor manino did it or presided over it in 2013. i think since then in a way there have been some sort of later-day efforts to honor him even more properly and i think this would be the ultimate and i think it would be great and i think william logan, the guy who logan airport was named for has had a great run, 80 years. name a terminal after him or something. coming up, we're taking a look at the 2024 tony awards. we will break down all the biggest surprises and the snubs from last night. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. t. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back.

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the israeli military is temporarily suspending its daytime operations along an aid corridor in southern gaza. officials announced the tactical pause yesterday adding that the fighting in other parts of gaza, including rafah, will still continue. since israel moved into the southern gaza city last month aid shipments have plummeted. the united nations says hunger is now widespread and more than 50,000 children need to be treated for acute malnutrition. this comes as israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu is disbanding the country's war cabinet. an israeli official tells nbc news netanyahu is expected to hold future talks about the war in gaza with small -- a small group of ministers, including

defense minister yoav gallant and strategic affairs minister ron dermer. >> richard, we get -- if you just read the "times" and the post, "wall street journal," financial times, there are puzzle pieces here or there. you will see an attack, you will hear of civilian deaths and death of idf soldiers, you will hear about political skirmishes inside of netanyahu's war cabinet, stories about him becoming more and more isolated. it's hard to really get a sort of view from 30,000 feet, which is why you're here. what are we looking at? what direction is this war moving? >> what we are looking at, joe, is israel girding itself for a long, open-ended war. you have tactical pause that is allow humanitarian supplies to get into parts of gaza, but

nothing is being done to bring about a permanent ceasefire, simply because israel doesn't want one, it doesn't want to cease the military operations to degrade hamas and the terms that hamas has laid out are unacceptable to israel. so i think what we're seeing militarily is an open-ended, lower-level war this gaza. and then the disbanding of this inner war cabinet. that's because two of the members, two of the more moderate members, have resigned. bibi will have a de facto war cabinet with the defense minister and ron dermer. he doesn't want to have a formal one but that would have required him to allow some of the most extreme people in his government including ben-gvir the minister of national security to join it. all of this suggests to me a long, low-level war in gaza. again, as attention begins to turn to the north whether we're going to see an uptick in military operations there because there's a strong

consensus in israel on both, that israel has to go after hamas, and that it's unacceptable for any israeli government to allow this reality to continue in the north where on the order of 75,000 israelis have been forced out of their homes to move south away from the border with lebanon, away from hezbollah. so the chance of military operations there are going up. coming up, oscar nominated actor jesse eisenberg is our guest this morning, he joins us ahead with a look at his latest project. "morning joe" is back in a moment. " is back in a moment

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starting out the fourth hour of "morning joe" this monday morning with a beautiful shot of san francisco's sunrise. it is 6:00 a.m. on the west

coast, 9:00 a.m. in the east. joining us we have the president of the national action network and host of msnbc's "politics nation," reverend al sharpton. and spes correspondent at vanity fair and host of the fast politics podcast, molly john fast, she is an msnbc political analyst. >> reverend al, we got the breaking news this weekend when donald trump spoke at a black church, filled mainly with white people that some of his best friends are black. what say you? >> i say that i've probably all of my life heard every bigot i have ever talked to say that. that's usually their opening line, that some of my best friends are black. and you say that being defensive because it should be a given that you have friends that are black. the fact that you have to say it tells us that you really do have

some bias tendencies, if not an outright bigot. i also think that it takes real effort to go to a black church and have mostly whites in the audience. i mean, in detroit -- >> why is that? >> i've never heard of that. i've been preaching all my life and i have never seen a black church in detroit where the majority of the people in the audience are white, and then you leave there and you go to a real right wing conference which draws white supremacists. so i think donald trump more defined himself to black voters this weekend than he was able to appeal to them. >> and to be clear, a black church full of white people is a black church full of white people. >> yes, it is. and to be clear, when martin luther king said the most segregated hour in america every week is the hour that people worship at church, well, he was

foreseeing the white audience at donald trump's black church event. >> oh, my god. okay. >> molly? >> yes. for sure. i mean, i think some of this is trump trying to get -- give a permission structure to try to prove -- to prove or to pretend to more mainstream voters that he's not racist so that they will vote for him. i don't think that he actually believes -- and, again, the rev can speak to this much better than i can -- that he can actually win black voters. >> no, i don't think he can win them. i think he's trying to get some on the margins and he's trying to really appeal to independents and moderates that he's not racist and then he lies. he says that black unemployment was low under him than anytime in history. black unemployment now under joe biden is lower than it's been at any point in history. during the pandemic that donald trump handled, black unemployment went up to like

over 16%, and it was donald trump that caused the pandemic and blacks took the brunt of that. so he should not remind blacks of our unemployment numbers under his presidency that really exacerbated the pandemic. >> yeah, a real mishandling. a real mishandling. >> president biden and former president trump were in full campaign mode this weekend as we've been saying. biden hosted a star-studded fundraiser in los angeles while trump campaigned in the battleground state of michigan. nbc news senior washington correspondent hallie jackson has the very latest. >> reporter: at a star-studded l.a. fundraiser president biden laying out the stakes of a potential second trump term. >> the next president is likely to have two new supreme court nominees. two more. the idea that if he's reelected he's going to appoint two more flying flags upside down is

really -- i really mean it. >> could this be the scariest part of all of it? >> well, i think it is one of the scariest parts. look, the supreme court has never been as out of kilter as it is today. >> reporter: in a q&a comedian jimmy kimmel also asking about so-called trump amnesia. remember the pandemic, mr. biden responded. he said just don't worry, just inject a little bleach in your body. former president obama also on hand warning what has happened over the last seven years is we've normalized behavior that used to be disqualifying. the biden campaign saying it raised more than $30 million. the race for the white house effectively deadlocked less than five months from election day. former president donald trump campaigning over the weekend in battleground michigan at a predominantly black church, part of his outreach to black voters, taking aim at president biden over his central role in the

controversial 1994 crime bill and seeking to fan the flames on illegal immigration. >> they're coming into your community and they're taking your jobs. >> reporter: and at another event with supporters referencing his legal issues. >> i'm the only one in history who got indicted and my numbers went up. i'm the only one in history who got impeached and my numbers went up. >> the biden/harris campaign has a new ad focused on donald trump's criminal conviction. it's part of a $50 million push this month in battleground states. take a look. >> in the courtroom we see donald trump for who he is. he's been convicted of 34 felonies, found liable for sexual assault, and he committed financial fraud. meanwhile, joe biden has been working, lowering health care costs and making big corporations pay their fair share. this election is between a convicted criminal who's only

out for himself and a president who is fighting for your family. >> i'm joe biden and i approved this message. >> molly, you know, i was told in the first campaign school that i went to that campaigns are all about contrasts. there's really a dramatic contrast there. there's so many other contrasts between these two men, but that really does lay it out. it wasn't just one jury coming back talking about 34 felony counts, you of course had the e. jean carroll case where the judge in that case said you can call it sexual assault if you want to, everybody else would call this rape. and then of course you had the financial fraud. so what a contrast and for everybody that's saying it just doesn't matter, we showed polls earlier this morning that suggest with a good number of independents and with enough republicans it does. >> yeah. i always thought that the real voters, not the people -- the primary voters who trump has

knows voters, right, the republican primary voters are all in on trump, he could, in fact, shoot someone on fifth avenue and they would still vote for him, but he needs to grow the electorate and, you know, he's never been interested -- lawrence always talks about this -- he's never been interested in growing the electorate ever. so in order to appeal to the voters he needs to win criminal convictions do not help a candidate. and the idea that they would is such a brain worms take. >> it really is. >> yeah, i mean -- and also the other thing is that these criminal convictions do not exist in a vacuum, right? remember all of the allegations from women in 2016? i mean, this is a culmination of a lot of bad and really beyond the pale and illegal behavior. >> that is completely accepted and taken whole by republicans. >> by republicans, by republican senators. but, mika, donald trump says the

fact that he's been convicted of 34 felonies will help black voters relate to him. >> reverend al, where do i begin? this is the semafor interview again. they see strength. i think it's through osmosis, they see what's happening and a lot of them feel that similar things have happened to them. i mean, they've expressed to me very plainly and very clear, they see what's happened to them. i guess condescending back-handed way to relate with black voters? >> it's not only condescending, it is insulting, because what he's saying as a former president of the united states that blacks identify with mug shots and, therefore, with crime, because the circumstances of his being indicted and now convicted, is nowhere near what happens with blacks and nowhere near what we want to project as the symbol of our community.

and if you're going to talk about what happened to blacks, he was on the side that did it, the central park five that was wrongly indicted and convicted and was proven many years later by dna they didn't do it, donald trump was calling for the death penalty. he ought never remind people about his association with criminal justice as it applies to the black community. he was the cheerleader of the central park five. he was found by the justice department to be engaging in discrimination in the buildings he and his daddy owned. so when we look at a mugshot from him -- of him, rather, we are looking at it saying, well, i guess the bible is right when it says that as your soul you should reap. as chickens coming home to roost, it is certainly not a fellow chicken. >> republican senator j.d. vance of ohio has vowed to block all of president biden's judicial nominees in retaliation over trump's criminal conviction.

in a new york state court. here is what he said during an interview with fox news over the weekend. >> well, there are two basic ideas here, so the first is that we can't reward the biden administration for engaging in law fair not just against donald trump they weaponized the government against a whole host of conservatives that's unacceptable. we're basically sort of offering an alternative here. we're saying, look, if you guys want to allow these nominations to sail through you need to stop and effectively using the federal government to destroy your political opponents. the second thing that we're trying to do is just deny joe biden some foot soldiers that he has shown he will use to go after his political opposition. just to recap, this is, i think, one of the most fundamental elements of american democracy is that we fight over elections. we try to persuade voters to elect us. whenever the dust clears, whatever the voters decide you don't try to use the power of the state to throw your opponents in jail, you try to

beat them at the ballot box. and the failure to follow that principle over the last few years from the biden administration i think really threatens the foundation of our country. republicans just have to push back against it. >> well, this is, of course, same guy that said republicans need to push back on donald trump. said that as a christian he couldn't vote for donald trump. of course, last week j.d. vance announced that he was going to hold up nominees in o protest on donald trump's guilty verdict of 34 counts in, are you ready, new york state. >> a hush money trial involving an adult film star. >> in new york state. they write, we will not allow the fast tracking of any biden article 3 court judicial nominees as well as biden u.s. attorney nominations. they included mike lee, big haggerty, roger marshall of kansas, tommy tuberville of course, eric schmidt. but the threat is not going to have an impact considering the

six senators regularly vote against biden's nominees anyway. you know, molly, they've always, always objected to the fast tracking of any of the judicial nominees. that said, though, again, i can't speak for tommy tuberville. i know j.d. vance knows better. the fact that he would lie just staring at a camera like that, talking about we can't let the biden justice department or the federal government can't -- he knows it's a jury of donald trump's peers in new york state in a new york court with a manhattan judge and a manhattan prosecutor and a manhattan grand jury that led to the 34 felony convictions, had nothing to do with the federal government, had nothing to do with joe biden or joe biden's justice department. >> yeah, i mean, j.d. vance absolutely knows better.

we know he knows better because he was a completely different person in 2016 when he was never trump, writing for "the atlantic" and trying to bring down trump. look, he is ambitious, he is craven, he thinks that he could maybe be vp. this is the veep stakes. if you look at the senators who signed that letter they are exactly who you think they would be, right? tommy tuberville definitely does not know better or who even knows what tommy tuberville knows, not even tommy tuberville, but i think it's -- i think that this is very unsurprising and the fact that he would say this about a state case when it doesn't -- you know, the president doesn't even -- there is no connection between the state courts and the president. and i would add that hunter biden just got found guilty, convicted on three counts, federal counts, where that's more of a connection. >> but that somehow isn't weaponization of the justice department. and the president has said he won't even pardon his son.

so what is it, republicans? it's unfortunate that that reality happened right after trump was convicted on 34 felony counts. >> in state court. >> yeah. >> anyway, former president trump has weighed in on maryland's senate race. he went ahead and endorsed maryland governor larry hogan, the backing came a few days after hogan tweeted moments before the jury read its decision in trump's hush money trial that americans should, quote, respect the verdict and the legal process, which of course caused a total meltdown, mika, in maga land. >> yes, it did. one of trump's senior advisers responded to hogan, quote, you just ended your campaign. >> whoa. burn. sick burn, dude. >> layer ra trump would go on to indicate the party might not support hogan and his campaign because of his post about the verdict and that he doesn't deserve the respect of minute in the republican party at this point and quite frankly anybody in america. >> why do they shame themselves?

when all hogan said before the verdict was like we have to respect the process, regardless of which way the jury goes. it's like very american thing to say, isn't it? unless it involves donald trump. >> here is what trump said last week about supporting hogan. >> are you going to support larry hogan to win that senate seat? >> yeah, i'd like to see him win. i think he has a good chance to win. i would like to see him win. we have to take the majority. we have to straighten out our country. so i'd like to see him win. he's somebody that can win. >> uh-huh. that's so confusing. in response to trump's backing, a spokesman for hogan said the former governor has been clear he is not supporting donald trump, just as he didn't in 2016 and 2020. i like the cut of his -- he just -- he just sticks to his

guns. not a lot of that in the republican party. >> well, we'll see. we'll see as his campaign goes on. we hope so. >> good point. joining us now the democrat squaring off against hogan this fall, prince george's county executive and maryland democratic senate nominee angela alsobrooks. thank you for coming on "morning joe." welcome. >> thank you so much for having me. >> congratulations on your candidacy. >> thank you. >> tell us what your campaign is about and why you decided to run. >> well, you know, what this is about the future of our state and of our country and i'm running because, quite frankly, there are so many families in maryland and across the country who in this moment are concerned not only about economic opportunity, growing jobs and income for their families, but so much like me, they're concerned about the future of our country and about our freedoms. i have a 19-year-old daughter and i don't want my daughter growing up in a country where she has fewer rights than her mother and grandmother. we are at a time where the stakes couldn't be any higher in our country and in the senate at

a moment when it is all at risk. we saw last week the republican party voted against really sensible legislation that would have codified the right to have ivf, the week before that it was contraception. so i am really running to not only preserve the freedoms that all of us respect and enjoy, including wanting to have freedom for my daughter where her basic rights to abortion care and reproductive freedom are concerned, but we are also facing a time where folks are concerned about affording groceries and affording the cost of affordable housing and, again, having the freedoms that make us american. that's what i am focused on and, again, the stakes couldn't be any higher. you saw donald trump just endorsed former governor hogan because they share a vision of the state and country that is in opposite of most marylanders. they share in common the desire and the goal to take back a majority in the senate and to take our country backwards. >> ms. alsobrooks, al sharpton.

i know of your work by people that i work with in national action network in maryland, larry young and others, and you've really won a primary where you were outspent by a huge margin and yet you were able to be the winner. i expect that you would tend to try to run that same campaign because larry hogan is very popular in your state. but explain how you are better suited in your opinion than he is to deal with the future and the challenges of women's rights and voting rights and all right now, because if he went to the senate, he would be part of the republican caucus and take away from the democratic caucus that's fighting to maintain a lot of those rights. explain to us what is the difference between you going to the senate and mr. hogan going. >> well, thank you so much, reverend al. do you know what, mitch mcconnell invited larry hogan into this race, said it was the get of the year because, again,

they share a goal in common. as i mentioned, we just saw donald trump endorsed him. a future where we have very different visions of what our state should look like. larry hogan vetoed important abortion care legislation that would have expanded abortion care in our state. he has a record that really aligns in so many ways with values that are in opposite of most marylanders and what we know is the supreme court -- we just heard president biden say we believe that there is an opportunity to appoint two more supreme court justices. there is no doubt in anyone's mind that larry hogan would vote with the republican caucus to appoint supreme court justices who will not only work toward a ban on abortion care, but we know as well that so many of the other sensible things that we need -- sensible gun legislation, we really do need to deal with the immigration issue in our country, but these are issues that larry hogan would be voting with the republican party. in other words, this election is so much bigger than larry hogan.

i think we all have to be clear about that. you mentioned that he's popular. i like larry hogan as a person, i worked with him as county executive. it is the case that we do not share the same vision for our state and for our country and, again, his vision is one that is in opposite of marylanders and most americans. his party would gain the majority and this is important to know. >> i guess that's -- i guess that's the point here, right? that you are going to need to get across to voters. because governor hogan says he's pro choice, he said he would vote to enshrine abortion rights if he became senator. i guess the question s and it's what you hear in a lot of campaigns, even if people are saying things that maybe there's not the big contrast between you and governor hogan, but is your point that if he gets elected he will be voting for a republican majority leader and at the end of the day, like all republican senators, if he wants to get things done he's going to have

to go along to get along in most cases with donald trump. >> oh, absolutely. what we know is that larry hogan would not only be voting for a majority leader, but we know that lindsey graham is the person who is anticipated to take over the chairmanship of the judiciary committee. this is very concerning and it means that we would have, once again, these conservative justices who are taking our country backward and he said in his own words when questioned will you vote with the republican caucus? he said absolutely. this is just a few months ago. and even though he said that he's -- bless his heart -- become pro choice what we know is just a few months ago when questioned about this he said that he refused to speculate as to whether or not he would support codifying in federal law a woman's right to choose. again, this is so much bigger than larry hogan and this is, again, about a vision, a vision i've heard from marylanders who are saying to me not only women but men that they want freedoms for their daughters like i want

for my 19-year-old daughter. these are people who are saying they want economic opportunity, they want growing jobs and income, to be able to buy houses. these are the issues that i have worked on both as county executive, where i have grown economic opportunity, fought to bring back the fbi national headquarters to prince george's county, to maryland, to make sure we have transformational growth and economic opportunity, i fought to expand health care access, i've brought in dollars to grow transit around -- transit, carrollton, for example, and will do that for the rest of the state. grow economic opportunities, preserve freedoms and these are the things i have spent the last 27 years working on and will continue to do as a senator. >> maryland democratic senate nominee angela alsobrooks, thank you very much for being on the show. >> thank you. >> all right. take care. thanks for being on this morning. and coming up, teens spend nearly five hours every day on

the top social media platforms. now the u.s. surgeon general is calling on congress to require warning labels on social media platforms, similar to those now mandatory on cigarette boxes. we will have those details for you. plus the growing reaction on capitol hill after a divided supreme court on friday struck down a federal ban on bump stocks. "morning joe" will be right back. " will be right ckba

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we have allowed these platforms to exist, to evolve, to pro live rate, to really occupy so much space in our children's lives and our kids themselves are telling us about the mental health impact. >> this morning the u.s. surgeon general vivek murthy is calling on congress to require a tobacco-style warning to visitors of social media platforms. in an op-ed to the "new york times" he writes that the mental health crisis among young people is an urgent problem with social media an important contributor. he continues, it's time to require a surgeon general's warning label on social media platforms, stating that social media is associated with significant mental health harms for adolescence. a surgeon general's warning label which requires congressional action would regularly remind parents and adolescents that social media has not been proved safe. so i think this seems like step

one, but i don't know how it actually stops kids from doing something that is addictive. so that's going to be step two or three. i predict this ends up in the legal realm. >> well, you know, putting warning labels on cigarettes came after a long, long battle. >> right. >> it came after the tobacco companies learned that their product killed americans, lied about those studies, covered those studies up, continued selling cigarettes and continued fighting any regulations. the same thing has happened here. >> it's very similar. >> it's so similar. >> it's killing kids and adults. >> there's study after study after study shows that especially for younger americans, especially for younger women, but men as well, that social media platforms, like instagram, causes anxiety,

causes depression, causes suicidal ideation and in tragic -- in tragic instances, suicide itself. increases bullying. you can go on and on. and, molly, the thing that is so -- where the parallels are really haunting comes to the studies. the in-industry studies that tobacco companies did where they knew cigarettes were killing their consumers and did nothing about it. same thing happened with facebook, they had -- they had studies that showed that -- that their product was causing anxiety and depression and suicidal ideation and in instances -- some instances suicide, and they covered it up, and then when it was revealed they lied about t i mean -- >> don't let their kids on it. >> and again, yes, you look at -- you talk to so many

silicon valley tech leaders, they don't let their kids have screen time because they understand that it is the mental health equivalent of handing them a pack of cigarettes. >> so i think tobacco is a great example here and i might add oil companies, too, right, lying about the environmental effects of some, you know, oil, but i definitely think you're right. and, look, congress has been really hesitant to regulate technology at all and so we have things we desperately need like greater algorithmic transparency, nobody knows how these algorithms work, it's not clear. you know, we know there's differences in the way -- i mean, if you look at tiktok there's differences in the way the algorithm works in china versus the united states, what they point viewers to. >> right. >> and they've been really reticent to share any of that transparency. congress has an opportunity here

to step in and they should. you have the surgeon general literally begging them to. you know, we need regulation. we need to protect our kids. and, you know, the reality is there's an opportunity here to steer readers to more verified news and not things that are, you know, made up. and congress has not done t and congress could even save local news if they were more careful with making sure that these platforms linked to verified sources. >> you know, it's so fascinating. i'm talking about mental health. you brought up tiktok which obviously impacts mental health but it also impacts political debate. >> yes, absolutely. >> you have the communist chinese party in control of a site that influences how young americans think, and you have donald trump, because the

american -- basically the american head -- or a big investor in the american affiliate of the communist chinese party's holdings in tiktok going to donald trump, asking him to support tiktok and oppose a ban. so, yeah, we're not only talking about mental health, we're also talking about the political health of all americans. and just asking the question -- and, again, you can put it back in sort of the '60s or '70s, do we really let the communist chinese party control the cbs news with walter cronkite? would we let them look at what scripts cronkite would read to americans? that's exactly what's happened on tiktok. if you don't believe that write something about tiananmen square or the uyghurs and see how much it picks up on tiktok. write something about the oppression in hong kong and see

how much lift it gets with the algorithms on tiktok. it won't because, let me say it again, this is just lunacy. people will look back on history and say how could they let that happen? >> that's right. >> the communist chinese party is controlling what news our children see on tiktok. and it's one of the most important sources. i want to get back to the mental health side of the story, though, reverend al because studies have shown also that people of color, their children are disproportionately impacted as well. stay on these social media sites, even longer, and it has detrimental mental health -- detrimental mental health impact on them. so this is also an issue of racial justice. >> certainly an issue of racial justice. when you look at the fact that there's the depiction and

stereotyping and glorifying of a kind of street life that's synonymous with blacks, that's on a lot of these social media sites and they are the ones that's pushed when you even go to tiktok, as you mention, the kind of ways they maligned those who are doing certain things in politics that would advance rights and kind of glorify others and give the stereotype that thug life and gangster life is synonymous with what real blackness is rather than excellence. and this mental health aspect really gives our young people a focus that they don't need. i mean, many of them look at tiktok more than anything, so when you come and try to be rational and say, well, you are part of the corporate media, not knowing they're part of the communist media and i think it is a danger to our country and i think it's a danger to the mental health of our community. >> it is. >> also the supreme court struck

down on friday a federal ban on bump stocks. bump stocks are devices that allow semi-automatic rifles to fire hundreds of bullets a minute. the ban was put in place by the trump administration after a mass shooting at a concert in las vegas in 2017 in a 6-3 ruling along ideological lines the justices rejected the federal government's argument that rifles equipped with bump stocks could be considered machine guns. senate majority leader leader chuck schumer looks to bring up a ban on bump stocks and senator murphy is calling on republicans to support legislation to ban the devices. >> i would hope that republicans who said back during the las vegas shooting that they want bump stocks regulated now in the wake of the supreme court decision would join us, if we pass a law, the supreme court says that they would honor that law. my bigger worry, jake, is that

this supreme court has been signaling in some of their decisions on guns that they are ready to fundamentally rewrite the second amendment and take away permanently the ability of congress to do simple things like require people to go through a background check or move forward op taking dangerous weapons like ar-15s off of the streets. i think this court is poised to make it very hard for congress or state legislatures to be able to regulate guns and keep our communities and schools safe. >> i mean, it's going to be so important for congress to step in here. i can't believe i'm going to say this. i would be surprised if republicans would stand in the way. and i would be surprised because you just go back to the las vegas shooting at this country music festival in las vegas where over 60 people were killed. 60 people were killed over -- i think over 850 people were injured from the shooting and

the ensuing panic. this is just -- this is not hard. >> this is obvious. >> this is obvious. this is not hard. and i certainly hope republicans can do the right thing here. this is not hard. >> yeah. coming up, oscar nominated actor jesse eisenberg is the producing force behind the new off-broadway play "preexisting condition." he along with one of the stars of the play joins us live in studio. we will be right back. live in studio we will be right back. kayak. no way. why would i use kayak to compare hundreds of travel sites at once? kayak. i like to do things myself. i do my own searching. it isn't efficient. use kayak. i can't trust anything else to do the job right. aaaaaaaahhhh! kayak. search one and done.

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♪ ♪ [ speaking minionese ] no. no. no. no. no. no. [ gasps ] [ chuckling ] good job, junior. way to go. [ chuckling ] [ speaking minionese ] a brand-new play with a unique twist is opening off broadway tomorrow night at manhattan's connolly theater. it's entitled "preexisting condition." the play explores the struggle of escaping an abusive relationship and the powerful journey of making it to the other side. it features a star-studded rotating cast with an

alternating group of actors in the leading role during its run. so interesting. joining us now one of the show's producers, academy award nominated actor jesse eisenberg and actress tavi gevinson who is among a rotating cast of women who play the lead role in the play. i want to ask about the rotations in just a moment but first, jesse, take us beyond the title and tell us more about this play. >> thank you so much. thanks for having us on. good to see you, mika. the play is this incredible story of this woman just getting out of an abusive relationship and reintegrating back into her life. it's this amazing collection of scenes that paints this portrait of a woman just trying to reintegrate after a strange thing has happened and a terrible thing has happened. and so the play is not just about this kind of tragedy, but it's also about humor and it's about trying to regain her sense of self and i think it's something that probably more

people can relate to than unfortunately should be able to relate to. >> yeah. >> tavi, i think that one of the things that in reading the background of the play it makes me want to go see it when you are in it because you taught me how to center myself just now, gave me an exercise here in the studio so i appreciate it, is that it's really talking about people coming out of life-altering experiences. so it may not even be an abusive relationship, there's any number of life-altering experiences. is that what you hope when you are in the play and what jesse is trying to project, that people can recover from life-altering experiences? >> oh, definitely. i think one thing that drew me to this play was that it's really not about the spectacle of dating violence, it's really about the after life of it and how this character kind of carries it and how it ripples out and effects her community and how she is ultimately able

to find healing and support even when the path to legal accountability is full of, you know, different barriers as it is for a lot of people. so i hope that lots of different people -- i mean, i don't hope so, but i also think people will have different ways of relating to it. >> can you talk to us about the rotating cast aspect because that is pretty new, i think. >> yeah. so five different actors including myself share the lead role, we each go on for about two weeks at a time and it's, i think, a very cool, creative choice on the part of the show because instead of choosing one woman to be the kind of avatar for this story i think it gestures to the sense that this experience can happen to a lot of different people, it does happen to different people and as an actor i feel like i get to step into this kind of support group of people who have already done it and i get to see the other actors go on first and

audience members can maybe see it multiple times if they want. >> yeah, it's so interesting. jesse, i wonder where did you get this idea, if this was you, because also these women can really learn from each other and develop that character. and what else do you hope the audience will take away from this? >> well, it was absolutely not my idea, i'm so thrilled to be a part of it, but the play right is marin ireland, an old friend of mine and probably the most beloved woman in new york theater. so she wrote this incredible play and then i really hope audiences can kind of like find just the -- like understand like the nuance, like what the play does so wonderfully is it presents just the nuance of kind of coming back from a bad experience and specifically intimate partner violence and it just shows like the way it kind of presents itself to you if you are a person who has experienced this, the way the world kind of is constantly reminding you in weird passive-aggressive,

sometimes unhelpful, sometimes maybe helpful accidental ways as you try to reintegrate and reorient yourself back into the world. >> "preexisting condition" opens tomorrow at manhattan's connolly theater and runs through august 3rd, producer jesse eisenberg and actress tavi gevinson, thank you both very much for coming on the show this morning. we appreciate having you on. good luck with this. coming up on "morning joe," we will recap the winners and big moments from last night's tony awards. stay with us.

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. welcome back. the 77th tony awards were held last night in new york city. some of the brig guest winners have joined us right here on "morning joe" nor the past year. >> in so many ways it's forecasted the political, social, ecological crises that we face now. >> this play is a cry from the heart and an ex-alation to face up to the difficult truths staring us down. >> we've had many audience members come and say they've reflected on their actual lives coming to see the show. it's ooh very unique theatrical experience. >> to actually be able to be a part of making theater in this city and just as much to be able to watch the work of this incredibly, incredible community has been the greatest gift and pleasure of my life. >> i'm so excited to be back on broadway doing stage again. it really feels like -- it keeps

you honest on stage. >> thank you so much to our cast, everybody on that stage. it is an honor to be on stage with you every single night and to -- yeah, i will miss it so much. >> i think people love rock and roll. and i think people are always interested in what's behind these sur nas images. >> it's really hard to make a career in the arts. we need to fund the arts in america. it's the hallmark of a civilized society. >> i certainly think every person can see themselves reflected up there, and that is i think a really unifying experience that someone can have as an audience member. >> this is the heart and soul of what we development i'm so honored to be amongst you. thank you. >> i'm so excited to now get to share this story that i growing up going to public school never learned -- >> to all the theater kids out there watching, especially the loud little girls.

go for it. you can do it. >> i love that speech, the loud little girls. frank joining us now, emmy award-winning host. frank, what a night. let's go through it. first of all, best new musical out did hell's kitchen. >> yes. hell's kitchen was up for 13 tony nominations. out of the gate we thought this would take home the best new musz cal tony. i certainly did. i was at a couple of parties over the weekend and listening to voters. they were chatting. i voted outsiders, i voteed outsiders. mika, this was not a year where it was a shoo-in like a amount or book of mormon or dear evidence ran hanson. the race was on. "the outsiders" took it in the end. >> there were great moments. alicia keys performed which was

incredible. >> speaking of hell's kitchen, she did "empire state of mind." jay-z made an appearance doing his moment in the song which was thrilling to watch. hell's kitchen, certainly one of my favorite shows of the season. >> merrily we roll along finally gets its due after a long battle to try and get that. >> so true. it opened in 1981, only ran for 60 performances. if you said what is stephenson heim's flop, people would say merrily we roll along. that's not the case anymore. best musical real vooifl. daniel radcliffe won. the director said when accepting that awarped for best musical revival, merrily is now popular, which is very nice to hear. >> so cool. sarah paulson and jeremy strong won tonys last night. tell us about them. >> yeah. in the lead actor and actress in

a play categories. i spoke to sarah right before she walked into the theater, and she said to me, frank -- she graduated in laguardia high school, the school of performing arts, right around the corner. had her graduation ceremony right where this venue was. so talk about a real full-circle moment. >> stereo phonetic won ten tonys including best play. >> no surprise with this one. we thought this would take home the best play tony. it was the little play that could. it opened off broadway in the fall, came to broadway in the spring. just got extended again. it was a play with music following this 1970s rock band. no surprises with this one. >> how did suffs do? >> we just saw shana. she won two-tone anies last night for best book of a musical

and best score. of course, that's the show that hillary clinton is producing. she was there to present the performance for this show last night which the crowd went nuts for, seeing hillary on that stage. >> wow. so cool. i have to say, broadway is doing pretty good, isn't it? a lot of great stuff. >> broadway is doing great. you know, with this season coming the a close, there are so many great shows coming next season. sunset boulevard and gypsy with audra mcdonald. smash. it's going to be a great year next season, too. >> all right. the host of on stage on spectrum news 1, frank dill lel la. thank you very much. that does it for us this morning. we'll see you tomorrow morning. ana cabrera picks up the coverage in two minutes. s up the coverage in two minutes. and with kisqali, i can have both. kisqali is a pill that when taken with an aromatase inhibitor helps delay cancer from growing

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