faith in the results and so far each one of these meetings is producing billions of dollars in results. this conference in geneva was not a peace conference because the russians weren't there. president zelenskyy was asked specifically about this, what's the point of having a diplomatic conference if the main person, the main party involved in the war on the opposite side isn't there? >> richard engel, thank you very much. that's going to do it for me today. "deadline white house" starts right now. hi there, everyone, it's 4:00 in the east. the biden campaign came out swinging this morning wielding the most powerful rhetorical weapon there is against donald trump. team biden calling out the disgraced convicted twice impeached four times indicted liable for sexual abuse and financial fraud ex-president for

being, well, all those things. a brad new ad, part of a $50 million ad buy set to air in key battleground states starting immediately says americans face a clear choice in november, watch. >> in the courtroom, we see donald trump for who he is. he's been convicted of 34 felonies, found liable for sexual assault, and he committed financial fraud. meanwhile, joe biden's been working, lowering health care costs and making big corporations pay their fair share. this election is between a convicted criminal who's only out for himself and a president who's fighting for your family. >> i'm joe biden and i approved this message. >> so the message comes at a time when there are some signs out there that as much as trump would like us to believe that he wears his convicted felon status as some sort of badge of honor, a pretty vital slice of the electorate, the one that still resides here on earth one with

the rest of us, sees his conviction for what it is. a poll of adults says that 53% of voters believe trump is guilty of the charges in the hush money election interference case, and 21% of independents says the conviction makes them less likely to support trump and that it would be an important factor in their vote. in a close election, small shifts could determine the outcome. while the biden campaign is driving home the fact that the presumptive republican presidential nominee is a convicted felon president joe biden is also sounding the alarm on what could happen to our country if that convicted felon is handed another term as the country's president. speaking at a fundraiser in los angeles, alongside president obama president joe biden told the crowd trump has no regard for the rule of law in america. "the washington post" reports that biden said this, quote,

institutions matter. what he did on january 6th and now he's literally saying if he doesn't win there will be a blood bath. it's outrageous. the idea did you ever think you'd ever, ever hear anything like this? also an audio obtained by msnbc, president biden also mused about the possibility if trump were to win again of more trump appointees sitting on the nation's highest court. that home has one justice whose home had a flag flown upside down in front to have. that flag in solidarity with the insurrection and the insurrectionists and a second judge whose wife was involved in planning the coup. not to mention every day that goes by without a ruling on whether trump is immune from prosecution is another day that trump gets closer to avoiding accountability for the crimes committed on january 6th. here's what the president said

about trump and the court. >> the next president is likely to have two new supreme court nominees, two more, two more. he's already appointed two that have been very negative in terms of the rights of individuals. the idea that if he's reelected, he's going to appoint two more flying flags upside down is really -- i really mean it. >> could this be the scariest part of all of it? >> well, i think it is one of the scariest parts. look, the supreme court has never been as out of kilter as it is today. i mean, never. >> reporter: the biden re-election campaign bringing donald trump's felony conviction and his disregard for the rule of law front and center in the 2024 presidential campaign is where we start today. former u.s. senator co-host of msnbc's how to win 2024 podcast claire mccaskill is here. also joining us princeton

university professor and distinguished political scholar, eddie glaude is back. tim miller is here, and former top official at the department of justice msnbc legal analyst andrew weissmann is back with us. claire, i start with you. i just want to put this out there, i think the campaign needs to start with these big buys to send a signal to even its top, top surrogates about what the message is. i've had some of the best biden surrogates on. they've all got a six-minute answer to what the campaign's about, and something about an ad like this focuses the mind of the country and the voters as well as the spokespeople. >> nicolle, as you know and i know somewhat painfully, good campaigns are based on repetition and discipline. you say the same things over and over again to the point that you, frankly, just like go please don't make me say it

again but repetition works. i think sometimes surrogates forget that what seems obvious to them is not obvious to everyone. i mean, keep in mind we've seen polling where there was a huge chunk of voters that thought somehow joe biden was responsible for roe v. wade being overturned. i mean, that's how, frankly, disengaged the voters are that are going to decide this election. so the sooner the biden white house sends very clear signals about a very crisp message, and they begin to repeat it until all of us who pay close attention get tired of it, the minute we're really tired of it is the minute it may start working. >> that's exactly right, and then, you know, about three weeks longer. tim miller, somebody who got the memo, illinois governor j.b. pritzker. let me show you what he had to say. >> donald trump was convicted of

34 counts by a jury of his peers after being held liable for rape, and the discussion at the water cooler is whether that should be an issue in the presidential race. remember, there are 54 more indictments to be adjudicated. we're already in the pot, folks. republicans have been increasing the temperature for eight years. we better hop out soon or it's going to boil us all to death, and maga is laughing at us while they turn up the heat. they preach law and order all while republican leaders show up in a courtroom in new york city paying fealty to their felonious king. >> tim, i love this. i mean, this is the whole thing, right? this is trump who he is, this is maga what they're doing. we are all in the pot. someone had to say it. >> yeah, more pritzker, please. maybe get that guy on fox or

into the swing starts because sometimes it's just a lack of clarity from people who are supportive of the president about like what the message here, what the contrast is here. i biden ad at the very end of it i think sums it up pretty well that donald trump only cares about himself and joe biden's actually working for you. that's a good message, but then the details of what donald trump has done and what he's been held liable for, i think my favorite thing in that ad and in the j.b. pritzker comments is that they are bringing up the fact that he's been held liable for sexual assault, and in addition to that, in the ad the fact that he committed business fraud twice really. one in the more recent case. a lot of people don't know this, to claire's point. a lot of people, a lot of experts, a lot of media pundits and know it alls, after the access hollywood tape trump won anywhere. the voters don't care about his

propensity for sexual assault. some maga voters do care. there are some that don't know the story of all these other women who have been assaulted by trump. doing an ad that leans into that message, that talks about his criminality # not just in the bragg case but his pattern of criminality including january 6th is a strong contrast that we see in polls can work. they've got to drive it. this ad does a good job of getting that moving. >> well, because i have you and because you're good at forcing me to rethink the way i was going to say these conversations. tim, an ad we all know even in the old information era, an ad wasn't enough. what does the rest of it look like? you paint a bus with jail bars on it and you drive around, what do you do? what does the rest of the campaign look like to make sure people know just the adjudicated facts about trump. forget about the things he probably won't be tried for before the election. just the adjudicated liability,

what do you do? how do you make sure people know about that? >> the ad is a good start. on tiktok, talking to younger voters. we can get the j.b. pritzker clips. they need other clips. getting the celebrities out there, the influencers on there with very short, very to the point messages about trump's history, trump's crimes, trump's sexual assaults. i think that's extremely important, and frankly, you know, i've got nothing but respect for the vice president. traditionally, like that has been the vice president's role to be an attack dog, and i think that maybe there are legitimate concerns that related to misogyny about having the first female vice president being an attack dog, that she was a prosecutor, and joe biden for all of his strengths, i think prosecuting this is his top strength, let's just say. i think it could be kamala harris's top strength, and i think it includes more from her

and other people in the cabinet as well carrying the message. >> you know, vice president kamala harris is the best administration messenger in a post-dobbs america, and she's gotten to know some of the women impacted. i think she's done events in the states where these brutal bans have become the law of the land. i've had some of the plaintiffs on from the texas lawsuit, their stories are harrowing. talk to me about the conversations. it's go time. right? like i had five of the top surrogates on in seven days just to really understand where the campaign was message wise, and you know this program. we have two hours. we let people be expansive. i don't interrupt them. i cannot tell you what the 30-second message is from the campaign for the opening round of summer, and i wonder what your thoughts are, one, sort of about the state of the race. two, this message that is in this new big ad buy, and three, what they should do next?

>> three is easy to answer. they need to listen to you and claire and kim and get clear on the message. i think that's really important. i think drawing the contrast as clearly as you can, tagging donald trump with the label of convicted criminal i think is really important, and i think it's important for two different reasons, for two different audiences. one, when we think about the battleground states where this election is going to be won, nicolle, wisconsin, michigan, and pennsylvania, it's important for the biden campaign to speak to those swing voters and those independent voters who are -- who are holding their noses in support of the republican party with a convicted felon at the head of the ticket, they may not turn out. and that's what we want to convince them to do, right? that's what the campaign wants to convince them to do is not turn out or even vote for the biden campaign, but the second audience, of course, are those younger voters, are those other voters who seem to be he's too tepid. he's too oatmeal. he needs to fight more, and those are the folks that tim is talking about that he needs to address on tiktok.

so on the one hand he's addressing those voters who are doubtful, that's independent and the swing voters, and on the other hand, he's demonstrating that he has to fight, and in that, kamala harris needs to be deployed. the surrogates need to be deployed, to be more aggressive in fighting the -- fighting for the stakes of the election. this is the election whether or not we will have a democracy, and they need to be clear about that as they make the rounds around the news. >> i mean, eddie, i feel like you always turn, hold the mirror back up at us, and i don't want to miss that moment either. i mean, pritzker is saying we're in the pot is an porn part of it too. we're in the pot, folks. i mean, we are on slow, simmer, slow bowl, and the maga republicans keep turning up the heat. that's exactly right. >> absolutely, and what we cannot do in the midst of that is take on a cross fire framework, as if the opponent is

a traditional, rational political actor. we need to understand the stakes. that is as the media, we need to understand the stakes. we need to hold these folk accountable, and every time we hold them accountable, they cry victim. they crew foul. that's because, nicolle, at the end of the day, they assume as part of their calculus, we're going to behave as if everything is normal. that assumption is baked into their task of turning up the heat. we need to take that assumption off the table to mix all of my metaphors as i just did. >> i love it, i love it. so andrew weissmann, president biden did something that i've been asking about on this show for years. when are democrats going to turn the supreme court into a political issue as potent as what the republicans have done with the supreme court for 50 years. the answer was at a fundraiser in los angeles. president biden did it pretty respectfully but it is vital he continue to say this to the electorate. imagine if trump made two more

or trump made three. i mean, the damage that could be done in that single power of a president to pick appointees for the supreme court is almost immeasurable. >> absolutely, so i think it goes to the theme that like facts matter and elections matter, and you know, if it's repeating over and over again that dobbs happened because of trump, that message needs to go out. i also think in many ways people are thinking too small in terms of what could happen under a trump presidency. it's not just that he will have the power to take a 6-3 majority and, you know, and capitalize on that. he can do more than that. depending on what happens in congress, he can seek to expand the court. he can seek to restrict the

powers of the court, which are set by statutes to a large extent. it's not a given that they can serve as a check, even if he doesn't have the majority. there are lots of things he can do. i am sure he is looking over at bibi netanyahu going why on god's green earth didn't i think of that. we know that he does not want to have any check on his power, whether it's attacking you and your colleagues in the media, whether it's attacking people at doj, whether it's now attacking judges, jurors, witnesses, the same thing will happen with the courts. that is the last possible check on his power, and of course he will be thinking about ways to do that above and beyond the simple appointment process, as if that's not bad enough. so i really think people need

to -- i think it needs to be stressed by, you know, the democratic administration, but people really need to sort of wake up to just how bold the projects are that steve bannon, steve miller are fomenting with the former president. it is not anything like what we have seen. i know it sounds apocalyptic, but this is i think what joe biden was getting at when he said who would ever think we would be in a country where we are saying this and that is a message that i think bears repeating. >> yeah, i think i love some of these, you know, if you look at them as sort of pillars that have put down under the peer, i'm going to keep pressing you guys to help me flesh out what should happen next. no one's going anywhere. still to come for us, deceptive social posts and doctored videos

of president joe biden are spreading through right wing media like wildfire, perhaps in an effort for some damage control of their own. we'll show you what we mean and what that looks like and how the white house and the president himself are clapping back. and later in the broadcast, how the resistance against another trump white house is mobilizing along the lines of what andrew weissmann is talking about. we'll look at how groups are planning to fight back. all those stories and more when "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere today. don't go anywhere today. or crohn's disease... put it in check with rinvoq... a once-daily pill. when symptoms tried to take control, i got rapid relief and reduced fatigue with rinvoq. check! when flares kept trying to slow me down i got lasting steroid-free remission with rinvoq. check! and when my doctor saw damage, rinvoq helped visibly reduce damage of the intestinal lining. check! for both uc and crohn's: rapid symptom relief lasting steroid-free remission. and visibly reduced damage. check. check. and check!

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when i have customers come in and ask for something for memory, i recommend prevagen. number one, because it's effective. does not require a prescription. and i've been taking it quite a while myself and i know it works. and i love it when the customers come back in and tell me, "david, that really works so good for me." makes my day. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. what will you tell your kids, that you voted for a felon and criminal, supported a man

found guilty by a citizen jury, went into the voting booth happy to pull the lever for the only former president in history to bear the mark of criminal shame. will you tell them that breaking the law is how they should live their lives? that lying to their families about born stars and hush money is how they should behave? do you want your son to treat women like a man who was found to have committed sexual assault? do you want your daughter to be a victim of a man like him? >> you going up the escalator? >> yeah. >> i'm going to be dating her in ten years. >> when you're a star, they let you do it. you can do anything. >> whatever you want. >> grab them by the [ bleep ]. >> will you tell them that he was honest, that he was a good man? >> very fine people. on both sides. >> that he treated people the way you've taught them. >> like to punch him in the face, ill tell you. >> will you tell them you're proud of his cruelty? happy with the ugly insults? >> i mean, i'd like her right in that fat ugly face of hers. >> the attacks on women and the

endless lies that the chaos, death, and danger he brought was worth it? we know it's hard to walk away and put country over party, but your kids are watching. you're not just voting for your future, you're voting for theirs. >> wow. we're back with claire, eddie, tim, and andrew. claire, i love this ad also. this is what i spent my weekend doing, getting caught up on what is being created, what is out there message wise now that we have the fist ever convicted felon as my old party's nominee. i think this is sort of the other piece of the biden ad, and the lincoln project has a pretty specific and more narrow message to almost shame republicans and former republicans out of pulling the lever for donald trump. biden campaign has a slightly broader message mission, but i think this is an important part of the conversation. what'd you think of that?

>> listen, this whole idea of is this a vote you're going to be proud of? is this a vote that you would brag about to your children even though you know -- i mean, the vast majority of the people who are supporting donald trump that have been elected to office know that he's a consummate liar and know of his misbehavior. this contrast thing is really important nicole. the biden campaign cannot only do it on issues of character, which is a really huge contrast, they can also do it on the economy. they're not going to be able to go out and say, hey, the economy's great. what they can say, there is a dark time in america where no jobs are being created, where there is absolutely no infrastructure being built. where there were record deficits, and then, guess what, there's cranes in the sky. dirt is moving, record jobs, and

they can do that kind of contrast not just on character but also on content. and if they keep it to simple contrasts and keep that message always on contrast, they'll pull those independent voters in. >> yeah, i mean, tim this ad also has this element you're talking about, reminding people of some of the civil issues and civil judgments on sexual abuse and fraud as well. what'd you think? >> yeah, i think it's good, and i think that you need to keep banging that drum, assuming that people don't get it is wrong. let's break everybody's brain on who we're really trying to talk to. the people that joe biden is struggling with are the most disengaged people in the electorate. that's not a personal -- i'd love to be disengaged. unfortunately i don't have that option. that is who biden is struggling with. it's not really -- it's not really our people, nicolle, actually. the college educated former republican types that went for

biden last time are pretty much sticking with him. it's a lot of people not watching cable news. they are not as attuned to everything that donald trump has done, you need ads like these last two to remind people and drill it and to educate them. the other thing just going back to the supreme court comments because i totally agree with you on this, nicolle. the democrats also have to -- the only group they're talking to is these former republican swing voters. we're important, biden needs to do as well with that group as possible. it's the younger voters, it's progressives who aren't like super thrilled with him, banging home the message about the threat of donald trump potentially not leaving. about donald trump potentially putting two or three more justices on the supreme court, and these young people's entire life, the supreme court will be people donald trump put on there. and so i think those are very real concerns too and they've got to be able to do both of

those things. they're both simple messages. they're a little bit different, which in a group you're trying to talk to, they need to be able to do both. >> andrew weissmann, the other piece that i think people who are disengaged are not aware of is the through line on political violence. we talk too much about the part of the electorate that's become comfortable with political violence. it's a majority of the super minority. it's an alarming number of trump's hardened base. the rest of the country, the vast majority of americans are appalled and galled and disgusted. we cover in the vein of the rule of law in america all the threats against the fbi, the threats against doj, the threats against nara after the documents case, the threats against the irs after reporting about trump using the irs. i mean, every agency that's been revealed to have done anything to remotely contemplate holding trump accountable faces threats

of violence. this is another -- it's awkward because the people involved are not political actors. it's another important part of the story to make sure that the facts get out to the part of the electorate that hasn't tuned in yet. >> i have two thoughts. one is sort of despair because if january 6th is not the sort of clarion call for people, even the disengaged to wake up, i mean, that was, you know, let's remember, you even had mitch mcconnell at that point saying this is awful. you had kevin mccarthy saying this is awful. you had mitch mcconnell saying this is what the criminal laws are for. so you would think that the replaying of that, and that was the brilliance of the january 6th committee is sort of digging deep into that to show how tied, how tethered donald trump was to what happened that day. it's not that it was spontaneous and sort of supporters who just decided to do something lawless

that he did not know about and was not at his beck and -- they weren't at his beck and call, so i think that is -- you know, i'm not a political consultant, but you would think that would be something that is -- you need to remind people of. the other -- i just want to make a note of something that we saw in the mueller investigation, which was rampant on foreign actors and obviously we're going to see it a lot more, not just with foreign actors but also with domestic messaging online is suppression of the vote. and i just think that -- and tim sort of touched on this, which is the sort of democrats who are sort of led to believe there is no real difference, that the democrats take the far left for granted. the appeals to i'm sick of voting for the lesser of two evils targeting minority, black and brown communities to say

that the democrats are not really your friends, that they take you for granted. all of those were messaging coming from russia in 2016 that are now at home messages. you know, you will of course still see that from foreign actors, but it's almost not needed anymore because the seeds are now here and growing here. >> it's amazing, donald trump's america we put the russian troll farms out of business. it feels like there's got to be an audience for that somewhere. no one's going anywhere. up next for us, calling on president joe biden to take his man, woman tomato tamale test. the criminal convicted felon made another gaffe of his own. we'll show you that next. don't go anywhere. l show you tht don't go anywhere. the wayfair vibe at our place is western. my thing, darling? shine. gardening. some of us go for the dramatic. how didn't i know wayfair had vanities in tile?

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there's a growing and insidious trend in right wing media, broadcast, print, and social media. it is to take highly misleading and selectively edited videos of president biden directly from republican national committee social media accounts and then use those videos to spread messages virally to cast doubt on president biden's fitness for office. here is this headline from "the new york post," quote, biden appears to freeze up. has to be led off stage by obama at mega bucks l.a. fundraiser. the full video posted by biden finance chair on twitter shows something entirely different. biden reacting to applause and

then walking off stage with former president obama. it comes less than one week after "the new york post" made a cover out of another piece of deceptively edited tape. they claimed biden was walking away during a skydiving demonstration during the g-7 summit last week. the full video, which emerged almost instantly shows biden was going over to congratulate one of the sky divers who's cropped out of the video entirely. both the articles are based on cheap fakes, videos of real events that are intentionally manipulated to fool viewers released on an rnc opposition research social media account with zero independent fact checking by these so-called journalists and spread throughout the right wing ecosystem. we would take the hand wringing about biden's mental fitness in videos intentionally manipulated to make him look unfit, maybe a little more seriously if they weren't radiosilent about the

repeated glaring and real mental lapses happening behind podiums and on camera on the part of donald trump. the remember his story about his cognitive test, acing it over and over again. he told that story again over the weekend with a vital glaring mistake. listen. >> i said, doctor, you know dr. ronnie, right? do you know ronnie? ronny jackson? >> i said to the doctor, who's dr. ronny jackson. >> the white house doctor jackson, dr. ronny jackson. >> does everyone know ronnie johnson, congressman from texas? i love doc ronnie. i love doc ronnie, but i said what do you think about a cognitive test, ronnie? >> they ask it to you, they give you five names and you have to repeat them. sir, i'm going to give you six names, good, they look at him, a chair, a hat, a badge, a necklace. >> a light, a group of people,

ohio. >> a giraffe, a tiger, a this, a that. a whale. which one is the whale? person, woman, man, camera tv. they say that's amazing. how did you do that? >> i aced it twice. i aced it. >> i aced both of them. >> aced it. >> i aced it, every question right. >> claire, eddie and tim and andrew are back. i don't love covering this, but trump is forcing the issue. let me just say this about the test he's taking. it's like a sober person take the dui test, right? he shouldn't be bragging about acing the screen for dementia unless he's aware of something that he's trying to keep from his supporters. what do we make of this? what do we think of this? how do we cover this? what are your thoughts, eddie glaude? >> i've been trying to process it from the last segment to now.

we know who this guy is. we know his character. we know the danger that he presents, and we also know that millions of americans support him. we can come up with ads. we can disclose or illustrate his failings, his cognitive decline, we could do all of that, and we still know that millions of americans support him. and so, you know, when i was thinking about it in relation to the last segment and in this segment, nicolle, is that we keep presuming that these are rational actors. even the low information voters, we're saying if only they got more information, they will then make the rational decision. we have to conclude that this guy at the top of the ticket of the republican party, something is not right, and i'm not saying that they're irrational, but their passion's at work here, and we keep arguing on the grounds of rational decision-making when there's this existential question at the heart of his success and ascendance.

they feel they're losing control of the country, and we got to address that it seems to me if we're going to get to the heart of the rot. >> well, tim, eddie of course bottom lined this for all of us. i think there are two things to do here. i mean, one, it is time to allow the hardened base to be the hardened base and to just stop with it. i was part of -- i went out and i think i did 20 packages, 20 pieces, in trump they trust was the name of the series. it was an honor to do it. i went back after flynn was fired. i went back after mueller was tapped. i think we knew in early 2017 that there's nothing, nothing that can make the hardens base that loves trump not love him anymore. but trump knows that isn't enough, right? that's why trump keeps taking the mocha test from behind podiums. trump sees something in his own data that being a convicted felon, that his own diminished performance, he's not -- those clips interspersed from '16 to

'24, he is a different candidate in '24 than he was in '16, and he seems to know it. >> i think for sure, and that's just -- i absolutely agree with that. i also want to say i totally agree with eddie. it is disheartening. i was on vacation, a beer last week and to come back and to have to do this with this lunatic, have to watch this a clip, sit there and be like how is this person -- how are we in a place after all we've been discussing this hour, 47% of the country want this is person to be president. it's extremely disheartening and frustrating. we can't just be made tired by it. you have to figure out how can you keep it at 47 or 46 so we don't have to deal with a second trump presidency. in this clip, the important thing to discuss here is two points. you mentioned the new york post twice. it's the mourdocks that are doing this. we have to say it. it's the murdochs who are

advancing this stuff. temperatures only two years ago when murdochs, like mitch mcconnell saw trump for who he was. made fun of him, florida man makes announcement when trump announces his speech. now they're doing florida man's propaganda because they want to have access. i think it's important to call that out. and number two it's important to shame this person. it's nice to fact check and correct the record about the joe biden videos, you have to do that i guess, but really the only way to fight fire with fire is to show people the real video of trump and to do that in all of the different venues we've been discussing this hour. and that's going to be a job for the campaign and the media and, you know, all the allies and the pro-democracy coalition. >> well, tim, i'm going to press you going. >> please. >> even the corrected videos, a fraction of the people who saw the manipulated ones would have seen the full video. i went and looked for it because i said this can't be. i've sat across from him.

there's got to be more. what is the fire with fire? this is where -- i love what i've seen in terms of the paid messages from the biden campaign. i am concerned about what you just described, that the fire with fire competes, should we be on the high road or the low road. and i really, really, really, really hope that they understand that the election will not be won or lost on the high road. it will be won or lost by getting on the low road and pushing back against the crap that they're putting out there about president biden. say more about how you do that. >> yeah, yeah. look, i'm not happy with this either. i'm with you. it's the same thing. you know, you're doing it on this show. we at the bulwark, there's a video from two weeks ago where they stopped it right before biden sat down and made it look like he was paused in midair. if you run it one more second, you saw he was sitting down. we ran the corrected video on there. the number of people that see it is going to be fewer. that's just the nature of the communications business, it's the nature of disinformation.

so what is it? donald trump's got to be in people's faces. every time donald trump is talking, he is saying stupid stuff. he is saying extreme things that people that are not popular. he doesn't look good, by the way. let's just be honest. you know, the face that has gone from orange to burnt sienna. you can get the videos from mar-a-lago where you see the real donald trump underneath the burnt sienna face. they've got to make him look like what he is, which is an increasingly deranged elderly person that is a convict. and you got to do it with short videos that people are going to laugh at on tiktok. it's not the high road. it's not the lincoln douglas debates, but it's our reality. >> all right, we're going to put this question to claire and andrew after a very short break. don't go anywhere. y short break. don't go anywhere.

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♪ to see hundreds of miles of tracks. ♪ [vroom] [train horn] [buzz] clearing the way, [whoosh] so you arrive exactly where you belong. now, there are some even saying, mark, that donald trump might be wise to just pass on the first debate, wait until he's nominated, then debate him. what would you say to that? >> oh, i'd say he accepted it. he accepted it in the lion's den. if i were donald trump, i would have done some better negotiating here, but i don't think he can back out now without really looking cowardly. >> joe might have done donald trump a favor, and i say this affectionately, tommy, by insisting that when it's not his turn to speak that they mute his microphone because i think this was a mistake in the debate in

2020. >> claire, tim made many important points, but calling out the murdochs was the one i'm sort of focusing in on here. what murdoch owned fox news is doing there is softening the earth for trump to back out of the debate. it's next thursday, and that happened, there are no accidents, on fox news, definitely not on that program. we know that from reading their text messages as part of the dominion lawsuit. what do you think is happening over there on earth two? >> well, you know, the murdoch organization, i think they have reached a fork in the road. are they going to have any media that is a free press with standards, or are they just going to be a propaganda -- just pure propaganda? because, you know, i mean, let's be honest, nicolle, both sides try to feed the press stuff, whether it's a story they want printed, but what usually

happens is the media outlet looks at what they've been given, and they check it, and they make sure it's accurate, or they decide whether it's fair or newsworthy. there are people that are called standards officials and editors that check it. that's not happening. that's not even happening at "the wall street journal." i mean, how outrageous is it that rupert murdoch allowed a front page story that supposedly documented joe biden's mental decline and people like nancy pelosi and congressman meeks and my friend from washington, patty, who was interviewed, the senator, the ranking -- the longest serving senator in the senate right now other than i think chuck grassley who's maybe been there longer, but patty murray, they talked to her. they didn't put any of that in. they made that story all about what kevin mccarthy thought of joe biden's mental acuity. it was so outrageous, and for

them to put that on the front page of the "wall street journal," that's really damaging to the free press in america. that does permanent damage to their credibility, and i don't understand it because i thought the murdochs figured out that this guy was a danger to all things that we hold dear in this country, namely a democracy and freedom of the press. >> well, and the situation, andrew weissmann, that i find the most vexing is that the things that trump is saying about how he's going to tell putin to release evan president, like are so cruel and so sickening. and i've interviewed people in that newsroom. this is their colleague. this is a journalist doing, you know, incredibly important work. and the fact that trump has weaponized what will now be a show trial for putin, he's going to be tried on espionage charges, the fact that there are no breakers in the circuits for the murdoch-owned "wall street

journal," that there's no pride in what that paper is and does, really is a stunning sort of mile marker in that paper's evolution. >> so i have two words for everyone. david pecker. we just sat through a trial where the jury found beyond a reasonable doubt with no cross-examination of any import of david pecker, a friend of donald trump's to this day, the head of the "national enquirer" where he talked about -- it wasn't just a catch and kill scheme. that's sort of our shorthand and the way we short-handed hush money. there were two parts to this scheme. one part was to catch and kill bad stories about donald trump. and the other part was to create false stories for a political candidate. and those false stories were

first run by the political candidate. that is, david pecker's testimony under oath about what he agreed to with donald trump, tim's comment about the murdochs is that is just the new day david pecker. and we -- if you want to know that these are like fake stories that are coming out and being propagated, we just went through a trial about that. where the jury heard it and found -- remember, that was why it's a felony, is that they believed david pecker that there was this agreement. and so this is -- you don't need to look very far and you don't need to sort of surmise what's going on with donald trump. he did this already. >> it's amazing. and it's what he would expect from every media outlet if re-elected. i mean, it is why the press is viewed as enemies of the people, because they don't all operate like david pecker. such a good point. claire, eddie, tim and andrew, thank you for spending the hour with us. so great to see all of you.

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>> that was maryland governor wes moore earlier today. it happened moments before he signed an executive order pardoning more than 175,000 marijuana convictions impacting an estimated 100,000 individuals. the governor calling it a sweeping action meant to heal decades of injustice that had disproportionately hurt communities of color. maryland is now the first state in the u.s. to issue mass pardons on cannabis paraphernalia-related convictions. the legalized recreational marijuana last year after the passage of a constitutional amendment that as governor moore put it, quote, we cannot celebrate the benefits of legalization if we do not address the consequences of criminalization. wow. up next, mobilizing the trump resistance. the next hour of "deadline: white house" starts after a quick break. don't go anywhere. after a quick break. don't go anywhere. ell ringing) limu, someone needs to customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual. let's fly! (inaudible sounds)

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if you work on policy, you have the opportunity to be reclassified and turn into an

at-will employment. that doesn't mean you're going to get fired tomorrow. but that does mean that you are now working for the president of the united states. you're not working for your own institution or your own institutional benefits. >> hi again, everybody. it's now 5:00 in new york. the man on the left may not yet be a recognizable face to you. but his impact on our government if trump should be re-elected president would be massive. that was russ vought. he led the office of management and budget during the trump administration. now he's one of the authors of project 2025. project 2025 is essentially the guide that's been created by trump and his allies that will help the disgraced convicted ex-president turn our democracy into an autocracy basically should he return to office. what vought was talking about there was schedule f. now, schedule f is a mechanism by which he and others at project 2025 are planning to reclassify federal workers so

that they can be fired at will. it is all part of trump's bigger plan to surround trump should he become president again with only people who are absolutely loyal to him and not the country. that way they could accomplish their goals. like weaponizing the department of justice, something they tried to do the first time by making this change. it would be easier to do the second time. they would use the schedule fs to conduct mass deportations of immigrants and migrants and asylum seekers and eliminate the department of education without any obstacles in their way inside the federal workforce. but as vought and other trump acolytes are strategizing, so too is the other side. new reporting from the "new york times" details how that's happening. quote, a sprawling network of democratic officials, progressive activists, watchdog groups and ex-republicans has been taking extraordinary steps to prepare for a potential second trump presidency.

drawn together by the fear that trump's return to power would pose a grave threat not just to their agenda but to american democracy itself. because who can forget how the presumptive gop nominee already told us he would govern? >> under no circumstances -- you are promising america tonight, you would never abuse power as retribution against anybody. >> except for day one. >> except for -- >> he's going crazy. except for day one. >> meaning? >> i want to close the border and i want to drill, drill, drill. >> that's not -- [ applause ] that's not retribution. >> i'm going to be -- he keeps -- i love this guy. he says you're not going to be a dictator, are you? i said no, no, no. other than day one. >> even sean hannity can't help him. the "times" reports on these groups' efforts, though, to avert trump's autocratic impulses should he be re-elected. among those impulses invoking

the insurrection act to use the united states military against american citizens. something trump tried to do, almost did, in 2020 in response to the black lives matter protests. "the new york times" reports this, quote, the aclu is preparing litigation that would challenge the insurrection act, arguing that it was never intended to be used to shut down protest and debate. in parallel mr. romero, the aclu's director, said the group would be prepared to bring first amendment challenges to specific deployments in specific cities. groups are also bracing to protect voting rights, which could come under attack even more. the president of the brennan center, michael waldman, telling "the new york times" this, quote, we are doing scenario planning for a biden victory and for a trump victory. for biden we are preparing for the chance to pass significant legislation strengthening the freedom to vote. and for trump we are mapping out how to limit the damage from an epic era of abuse of power. that's where we start the hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends.

co-founder and executive director at protect democracy, ian bassen is with us. plus former u.s. deputy national security adviser under president obama ben rhodes is here. senior opinion writer and columnist for the "boston globe" and msnbc political analyst kim atkins stohr is here. ian bassen, i'm going to sound like i'm beating a dead horse but you are quoted in this story. it's a smart story. the business community is noticeably absent, awol, nowhere, not preparing for america to become something more familiar if you woke up in viktor orban's hungary. why not? >> well, i think unfortunately there are two things going on with the business community. one is i think they're hedging their bets, which is they want to make sure that they can make peace with whoever it is that is in the white house to protect their interests and they don't want to get across donald trump because he's shown himself to be incredibly vindictive and they're concerned about that. i think the second reason is i don't think they truly believe

the seriousness and severity of these threats. so as you detailed at the top of the segment, trump has been open about saying what he's going to do. and i think there are a lot of people sitting in positions of institutional power in this country that have an unfortunately unjustifiable faith that, quote unquote, the system will hold. but we pulled together a bunch of people who had previously served as top lawyers in various agencies throughout the executive branch to analyze project 2025, what the checks normally would be to stop abusive or illegal behavior within the executive branch, and analyze whether project 2025 was likely to be able to circumvent a lot of those checks in the system. and their conclusion in a report we put out inside "authoritarian playbook 2025.org is that unfortunately the trump plan is sophisticated and likely would be able to get past a lot of those checks. i think the faith that many in our business community have that the system will hold is unfortunately misguided and dangerous.

>> so ian, you're quoted in the piece. you say this, quote, he's no normal candidate. this is no normal election. and these are no normal preparations for merely coming out on the wrong side of a national referendum on policy choices. tell me where we are in terms of our ability to preserve democracy, preserve our institutions if he's re-elected and if project 2025 goes forward. >> well, look, you keep the body politic healthy the same way that you keep your body healthy, which is to say that the best way to treat a potentially terminal condition is not to contract it in the first place. and so the most important thing that we can do right now is to not allow the cancer of this authoritarian form of government to get back into power and we do that by exercising the fundamental choice that democracy protects and that authoritarianism takes away, which is the power to choose. which right now we have.

we have the ability to choose not to empower project 2025, not to empower an autocrat who once has already tried to subvert our constitutional system by leading an insurrection against the seat of our government. that is our choice. i think the most important thing about all this preparation and planning is it illuminates just how bad it would be if an autocrat who has been open about wanting the mandate of autocracy were elected or returned to power and able to claim that mandate. so the most important thing we can do now is exercise the power that we have of choice to not choose that path. you know, i was asked a couple months ago to go onto the ted stage and give a talk about this choice, and it tauzed me to think about how should we talk about the choice that's in our hands. and a couple things i just want to share here because a lot of viewers are thinking about how do i talk about this in the rooms that i'm, in the circles that i'm in. and these are some of the things our team at protect democracy came up with, which is one, it's

important to remind people of our agency. authoritarianism thrives on a sense of helplessness. we are not helpless. we currently have the power to make a choice. the second is don't condescend. people are tempted by the siren song of authoritarianism and have been historically around the world for reasons. hard things are hard. and people are drawn to someone who offers an easy solution that i alone can fix it. but condescending to them will not win them over to our side. third, make space for good faith disagreement. that's what democracy is about. we should accommodate that. we should allow for that. we should celebrate that. fourth, we have to tell stories about real people. not just institutions. in the talk i ultimately gave at ted that posted today i talk about ruby freeman and shaye moss, two incredibly brave election workers who represent the best of our democracy. and finally, genuine hope. democracy depends on hope. and i will end this part by just saying this. i have hope because every crisis we've faced in our nation's history has always been the beginning of a period of opportunity and advancement toward a stronger democracy on the other end.

and i really, really believe that as bad as this crisis is a stronger democracy is on the other side. >> but let me just press you one more time. i mean, only if trump doesn't return to power. >> look, i think it would be devastating for our democracy if he did return to power. typically, when autocrats like that get into power they don't leave for a generation. our nation did remarkably well the first time that trump was in office. he left at the end of four years. obviously a pretty ugly process of getting there. but there are also great examples like poland where it was about eight years or so but finally against all odds they were able to unseat the sort of ever more autocratic party there. but i wouldn't want to bank on that. i'd want to prevent it on the front end. >> so ben rhodes, you wrote the book, a book about this a few years ago, almost a canary in the coalmine, right? we weren't even talking about autocracy.

and maybe that was one of the mistakes, right? but what ian's talking about, the things that are given away freely, is the first page of timothy snyder's "on tyranny," right? that the autocrat, it isn't just what they grab, it's what's given to them freely. and this piece about agency is what i want to ask you about. i mean, i think the best thing about the failure of the federal criminal justice system to try trump -- and we can blame the supreme court. we should blame the supreme court. i do it every day. but that the inability to try trump for crimes that took place on all of our tvs, right? he incited a riot. his mission statement was to, quote, hang mike pence and keep him in power after he lost in a free and fair election, so declared by his own chris krebs, his own administration, bill barr, all the way down the line. is meant to disorient and deflate the vote. but the only people who have had nothing taken from them yet are the voters. tell me how this conversation

plays out over the next five months. >> well, look, i think one of the things that's been challenging is that people don't understand, and ian referenced this, the difference this time around versus the last time. i won't belabor the point. but the simple truth is i was in the obama white house when trump was elected the first time and when the trump transition team came in, chaired by chris christie, for the meeting where you talk about what people they want to appoint and what kind of offices they want to shadow, they had no transition plan because they didn't think trump was going to win. and so it is night and day. and i think people are conditioned to think, well, if trump's elected this time it will be just like the last time. and that's just not the case here. we have eight years and they've done a lot of work in those eight years. and that work is both looking at the united states and how they can essentially completely remake american government. and they've tested the boundaries of where the system is soft and where they can make real headway in dismantling

essentially checks and balances. and they also can draw from an autocratic playbook that is global. right? and that's part of what i was writing about. they looked at what viktor orban did to kind of transform a liberal democracy into a single-party autocracy essentially in a period of years. and so they're coming with a playbook. now, i think the key with ordinary people, nicolle, we've seen this -- i'm going to reference the recent elections in europe where you saw the gains made by far right parties. what i was really struck by, nicolle, though, is that the far right parties made the most gains in places like france and germany, where the incumbents were big defenders of the establishment. and actually, you saw the far right do less well in places where they've had control or where they've been more prominent in the government. the uk. we have a party in the tories, the right-wing party, that is about to get clobbered. so i don't think that it's necessarily the case that only the far right has momentum. the warning sign -- and this gets to your question about how to make this clear to people about their agency -- is to not

just talk about defending some kind of vague establishment that people are upset about to begin with. the point is if donald trump wants to dismantle this democracy to take care of himself and his friends and he wants to use that power to hurt you. you have to make this real to people, that essentially it's going to lead to a completely distorted economy that is going to favor the rich and powerful over working people. it's going to completely distort the justice system to protect trump and his own interests and not to defend the rights of ordinary people. this cannot just be a kind of academic discussion about democracy. it has to be about the fact that trump wants to do this for himself and at your expense. and that's the kind of message that has worked in other countries over the last few years where you've seen this push and pull between democracy and autocracy. these can't justing concepts. they have to be things that are made real to people. >> well, president biden does it in an increasingly effective way. president obama's convention

speech really is a blueprint-p i won't say the only one but one of the blueprints. tell me, ben rhodes, who you think the most effective messengers are this cycle, this time around. >> you know what's interesting about this time around is i think president biden is going to have to increasingly focus on this kind of message we've been talking about. you know, not just -- you enter the prime time of the campaign and it's less and less talking about your record and more about really sharpening the choice for people. but the reality is i think we're in a time when people really know joe biden. he's been around for a very long time. they know donald trump. he's been around for a very long time. i think the most effective messengers are going to be all of us. this is what ian was talking about. it's actually going to be incumbent upon citizens to go around and make the case for why this is something worth doing. some people may be very enthusiastic about voting for joe biden. but i think this election is going to turn just as much on people who might not like everything about joe biden. and you have to get to those people and you have to communicate to those people, hey, look, there's no perfect

choice in politics here but there is a wrong choice, a very wrong choice in this election. you know? and i think sure, you want to empower a surrogate operation. i think you want to get democratic politicians who've been effective in this era. you just played one of them, wes moore, in your previous clip. you want to get them out around the country talking to people. but i think really important the in home stretch is going to have to be a really concerted effort made to empower citizens and organizers to get out and be those extra voices. that's what barack obama did. it wasn't just his rhetoric. he essentially recruited an army of field organizers who were able to take this message on the road. in this case i think it's going to have to be joe biden and the democratic party that is offering a clear choice with donald trump but also really empowering people to make whatever message they think is most effective in their communities. it's going to be a different message in pennsylvania than it's going to be in arizona. some n. some places it's going to focus on reproductive freedom as something that is being taken away because there might be a referendum on the ballot. in other places an economic message is going to be more

important. the common thread, though, on all these things with trump is that he's going to put himself and his own interests, his autocratic interests, above you. whether it's talking about abortion, whether it's talking about the economy. and that's the thing that can hold this together. >> let me show you steve bannon's plan for a second term. >> we're coming after lisa monaco, merrick garland, the senior members of doj that have prosecuted president trump, jack smith. and this is not about vengeance. this is not about revenge. it's not about retribution. this is about saving this republic. we're going to use the constitution. let me tell the people that have done that to president trump, whether you're in the federal government or whether you're down in the state of georgia or you're in arizona or you're in michigan. we are going to go and we're going to get every single

receipt. and to the fullest extension of the law you are going to be investigated, prosecuted and incarcerated. okay? >> this is like a blowhardfest. of course that's all completely detached from reality. but the disinformation that the emotion attached to the disinformation is deep and it is animating. and i wonder, kim, what your thoughts are about how you make the facts and the reality and the democracy as animating. >> yeah, well, clearly here you see steve bannon going after the pillars and all of the people and the institutions that have held donald trump accountable and who have -- are in the process of trying to hold donald trump accountable. so it's very predictable that this would be a message.

but you have to try to speak -- and i've been spending the better part of many years trying to do this. trying to break through that noise and talk about what the rule of law is and what it's meant to uphold. and that this is an attack on the rule of law because an autocracy needs an attack on the rule of law. but it's not just important in terms of an election in order to prevent this autocracy from taking hold, right? what steve bannon is talking about and what he is signaling, pointing out officials in places like georgia or michigan or arizona where the people who engaged in trying to stop the results of the 2020 election, the vote of the people from being counted and being certified, is really dangerous. michigan is of course a state where there was a plot to kidnap the governor there because of her efforts in part to protect people from the pandemic and

also to restore democracy and ensuring that everyone had the right to vote there in michigan. so putting a target on these folks is extremely dangerous. that's something to remember. but also donald trump doesn't want accountability. steve bannon tried to wink there and say it's not about revenge. but donald trump has said very clearly that it is about revenge. and since his enemies went after him, if he is back in power he will go after his enemies. this is the clearest, most dangerous message that he has said since january 6th, when he sicced a crowd of supporters who he knew to be armed on the capitol. this is really one of the most dangerous messages. and we can't underscore that enough to the american people so that they know clearly what the choice is in november. >> it's so important. and it is interesting. i mean, steve bannon and sean hannity are cleaning up what trump has said out loud. it is about retribution. it is about revenge. it is about prosecuting his enemies. and the idea that they're trying

to say something different is laughable. no one's going anywhere. when we come back, we'll all be here. we'll also be joined by one of the democratic members of congress leading the resistance in the event of a second trump term to protect the institutions and the people in the country against project 2025. that is next. also ahead, the disgraced ex-president's attorneys twisting themselves in knots once more arguing that efforts to stop him from attacking the fbi in the mar-a-lago classified documents case would cramp his style and amount to censoring what they are saying out loud and proudly is, quote, political speech. that sameort of language that's already led t carried out against law enforcement. and later, the united states surgeon general calling for tobacco-style warning labels on social media platforms. parents are celebrating this one. arguing they pose a mental health risk to teens. "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere today. after a. don't go anywhere today.

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how do you explain that, that there are people that are very smart, nikki haley and bill barr are very smart people, that watched the first trump term on the inside, have described it as very dangerous, but are still saying, well, we might vote for him in 2024? >> it's power. i think it's the -- power is just one of the most enticing things that we have in society. i mean, kaitlan collins to her credit, cnn, interviewed bill barr and asked ban anecdote i had shared about a meeting he and i were both in in the oval

office where trump straight up said a staffer who leaked a story should be executed. and bill barr kind of danced, like i don't recall that specific instance. but there were others where he talked about executing people. and i'm like, how you rationalize that that is a person fit and sound judgment to be president of the united states. >> they all saw everything. and until the very end did nothing. joining our conversation, one of the democratic house members who has launched a task force to counter trump's project 2025. congressman ted lieu of california. the congressman is also a member of the house judiciary committee where a lot of the republican shenanigans get beta tested. congressman, thank you for being here. it feels like project 2025 has been out there for a long time. trump making no secrets of his plans to turn our democracy into an autocracy. there's a website for that now. it seems like peak trump 2024. tell me about the response and

the sort of interest and the energy in combating it or at least being prepared for it. >> thank you, nicolle, for that question. let me first say a poll released shows that joe biden is going to win re-election and democrats will flip the house. and that's because we're running on the values of freedom, democracy and optimism. this project 2025 manifesto by trump loyalists and extreme republicans is based on darkness. it's going to essentially gut the department of education. it's going to ban the fda-approved abortion pill from the market and fire civil servants and replace them with trump loyalists, dramatically expanding the powers of the presidency. it's going to turn america into what's going to look more like a fascist state. and we're trying to expose these ideas to the american public so that these ideas will never become law or see the light of day. >> congressman, i'm so glad you started with the polls.

i detect in democrats a feeling that the political season, as a former political person i love the political season. it means we all have to zip it and the voters get to weigh in. it is truly the most sort of democratic part of a four-year cycle. and i feel like the conventional wisdom is there is no silver bullet. yes, there is. what's in 2025, if the independent and swing voters and the sort of winning coalition that president bidenassembled knows what's in there it is a political silver bullet. nobody likes it. how do you make sure voters know everything that's in here? >> yeah. sunlight is the best disinfectant, and we want to expose these crazy ideas and the darkness behind them to all the people in america. if they read this 1,000-page sort of document they're going to be stunned and shocked at what trump and extreme republicans are trying to do. and we already have precedence

for this. if you look at the republican house, they have introduced one crazy bill after another. and a reminder, roe v. wade was overturned by trump-installed extreme supreme court justices. republicans have bills to have a national abortion ban. there is precedents for taking away reproductive freedom because that's what republicans are trying to do every day. >> well, and a 1,000-page document. people didn't read the mueller report and it was a blueprint for prosecuting donald trump eventually. what do you make sure that what is on those 1,000 pages, the things that keep you and i up at night, is something that is in front of voters before they decide in november? >> yeah, so one of the best ways to make sure no one reads anything is to have a 1,000-page document. and i do want to commend congressman jared huffman for his great idea in starting this stop project 2025 task force that's going to basically put out most of the craziest ideas that we can from this 1,000-page

document and expose it to the american people so that people really understand what's at stake this coming november. it's not merely a policy difference. it's really what do you want america to look like? do you want a democracy or do you want what looks like a fascist state? >> congressman ted lieu, thank you for joining us. i hope you'll continue to be part of these conversations. your work is vital. i want to bring in -- ian bassin, i want to bring you back in. it feels like this is an important step. but i feel like we also -- the campaign person in me gets back to messenger and your ted talk and people have an opinion before a democratic member of congress opens his or her mouth. what do you think of this effort? >> well, i think it's a really important and a good effort because one of the things you want to look at if you're running a pro-democracy movement is what are the assets you have at your disposal? and one of them right now is the democrats have seats in

congress, seats in legislatures, bully pulpits that they can use to expose some of the dangerous things that are being proposed. and i think congressman huffman and congressman lieu should be commended for putting this together and frankly i'd like to see some of the senate committees explore some of these plans and explore some of the things that are being proposed. president trump -- former president trump has talked about invoking the insurrection act to put down protests that should be protected by the first amendment. a gross abuse of the potential use of military in american streets. i'd like to see the senate highlight how that's not the way it was ever drafted or intended to be used and raise these specters to the american people to understand. >> ben rhodes, from the outside the democrats in the senate haven't seemed to use their majority to do much tangible work on the democracy side. not willing to put aside the filibuster to pass voting rights legislation, which would have come in very handy now that republicans have pushed through hundreds of voter suppression laws predicated on a lie,

something bill barr called bullshit, there was no fraud. i mean, what do you make of the inability to so far do much to protect democracy with their majority in the senate and whether or not there's an opportunity to do anything meaningful in the next five months? >> yeah, no, i share, nicolle, some of your frustrations. and i think part of the issue is democrats are very respectful of norms and laws and you have this situation in which essentially an asymmetric battle. you have the republican party that has completely chosen to ignore the rulebook. and everything they do is for a political purpose. i'm not suggesting democrats have to become that. but the point is in order to defend norms sometimes you have to say the democracy is more important than the filibuster. which is not exactly some particularly democratic tool. i think in terms of what they can do from here on, though, you'll remember the january 6th hearings, for instance, nicolle.

those got attention. they kind of broke through. because they told a story. they want just kind of dry oversight in the middle of the day on the capitol. they used video. they laid out the story for people of what happened. they connected dots for people. i think that insofar as the democrats in the senate can use their very significant platforms to conduct oversight they have to tell a story about what this is all about. it's not just about what is happening in the jurisdiction of one committee. it's about what it would mean to essentially dismantle elements of the u.s. government as is being called for in projects like this. what it would mean to kind of gut and decimate the american civil service upon which americans depend for everything from the safety of their food and drugs, right? to the functioning of their public schools. they have to tell a story in as big a platform as they can to convey to people the extremism of what is being planned right now and again not have to let the clock be run out by

procedure or by, you know, kind of rules of civility that the republicans cast aside already in the senate. we need to act like we're in the emergency moment that we're in. >> yeah. adam kinzinger and liz cheney can can offer some help. kim-i want to give you the last word. i need to sneak in a really short break first. we'll be back on the other side. short break first. we'll be back on the other side. feel effortless. and its customizable scans with social sentiment help you find and unlock opportunities in the market. e*trade from morgan stanley with powerful, easy-to-use tools, power e*trade makes complex trading easier. react to fast-moving markets with dynamic charting and a futures ladder that lets you place, flatten, or reverse orders so you won't miss an opportunity. e*trade from morgan stanley the promise of america is freedom, equality, but right now, those pillars of our democracy are fragile and our rights are under attack.

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kim, my question for you is about volume. i mean, trump's folks have acknowledged that he benefits

from the volume of misbehavior, the volume of scandal, the volume of extrajudicial impulses and instincts which now are featured prominently on a website, project 2025. how do democrats focus the mind and focus the threat more narrowly? >> i think it's two ways that you can do that. you can remind people not just of what donald trump is saying on his social media or what he's saying in campaign stops. remind him of the presidency. i think sometimes when we've been through something traumatic the brain tries to erase it. we have an administration who four years ago, a president that was teaching us to -- telling us to inject disinfectant and a bright light in our bodies to fight a pandemic. we had a president who coddled white nationalists and who tried to, you know -- who used tear gas against protesters. if you don't think he would try to use the insurrection act. and i think you also do, you take something like project 2025, which as we pointed out is

a very well-organized -- it's not the ad hoc type of chaos that we're used to from a trump administration. it's well organized and planned. but look at the one well-organized and planned part of the trump administration, which is the rightward shift of the entire federal judiciary. and you're talking about how things affect real people. women no longer have full autonomy over their own bodies because of that attack. black and brown students no longer have the same even playing field in order to get into schools that they wish. parents who want to teach their children religion their own way no longer can count on their public schools not having a prayer imposed on them that they don't want because the separation between church and state is eroding. this is pride month. people who have planned their families and had their families for years can't count on the fact that they can still continue to expand those families, continue to get benefits for their family or

that the marriage that they have itself won't be attacked. this is how it's affecting real people every single day, and that from the success of that plan, that successful shot at the judiciary that the conservatives have been taking, project 2025 will just expand that to almost every aspect of american life. this is not a drill. >> oh, i love that. this is not a drill. and you're so right. i mean, just taking the attack on the judiciary and the rule of law does threaten every one of us. it was such an important piece of reporting. we are so lucky to get to talk to the three of you about it. i'm sorry for keeping you longer than advertised. ian bassin, ben rhodes and kim atkins stohr, thank you so much for your time. when we come back, the disgraced ex-president's lawyers actually arguing now that he should be allowed to attack the law enforcement agents in the mar-a-lago classified documents case and that barring him from doing so would constitute a violation of free and necessary

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[ cellphone ringing ] phone call from the boss? sorry. outdoor time is me time. i hear that. that's why we protect all your vehicles here. but hey...nothing wrong with sticking it to the boss. ooooh, flo, you gonna take that? why would that concern me? because you're...the... aren't you the..? huh...we never actually discussed hierarchy. ok, why don't we just stick to letting dave know how much he can save when he bundles his home or auto with his boat or rv. wait, i thought jamie was the boss. [ laughter ] it's funny because i'm not boss material! at a time when the consequences of donald trump's relentless attacks on the fbi, doj and any institution that threatens to hold him accountable can be measured in the historic rise in threats of violence against all of them trump is now saying the quiet part with a bullhorn. brazenly declaring that his attacks on the fbi are central to his ability to wage his

presidential campaign. on friday his lawyers urged judge aileen cannon, who is overseeing the classified documents criminal case against the ex-president, who reject a request from special counsel jack smith's office to bar donald trump from publicly attacking individual fbi agents. cannon is set to hold a hearing on the matter later this month. defense attorneys argue in the filing that jack smith, quote, seeks to restrict trump's campaign speech just ahead of the first debate with president joe biden next week. they also sought to water down the ex-president's attacks on the fbi, arguing that he was merely criticizing the lawful search of mar-a-lago, quote, in a manner that someone in the government disagreed with and does not like. joining us now former u.s. attorney and former deputy assistant harry litman. i played illinois governor j.b. pritzker saying we're all in the pot. this to me symbolizes that. this would be a top story five years ago, three years ago.

trump is arguing that he should be able to attack fbi agents who went to a judge to get a warrant approved to lawfully search his house for stolen classified state secrets and war plans. and he wants permission to attack them? there have been attacks on the fbi offices and agents already. and he's now saying in black and white letter filing he wants to keep doing it. >> not just attack them, nicolle. remember what he said. he took a normal circular for use of deadly force to try to cabin deadly force that you do in every search, for instance, the search of joe biden, and he basically portrayed it he basically escaped death, he said. he portrayed it as joe biden coming at him to kill him. now, remember, he wasn't even there for the search. so this was something that really sounded the alarm bells in doj. if you're telling people when federal agents come in to search your house they're coming to

shoot you, well, that's exactly what causes, you know, tragedies in searches. but all that jack smith has asked for, in a way this would be no story if it wasn't in front of judge cannon, what he said is so routine, so cut and dried. don't let donald trump say things about agents who are part of this investigation, the mar-a-lago case, and part of the prosecution and this could result in significant imminent and foreseeable danger. where do those words come from? the d.c. circuit case in the judge chutkan matter where what is okay in a gag order has been so clearly delineated and it would really abe sleeper involving not only a hearing except that it's in the southern district in front of judge cannon. among other things merrick garland came out with real alarm. that was last month. what did she do? she slapped the doj around for not being full-bodied enough in

the -- in how they dealt with the defense. now they do it again. she set something for the 24th. remember, in the interim we've had someone really vilely attack an fbi agent in baltimore, not here but in baltimore, has now been arrested for it. you know, he puts into motion these things that lone actors could respond to. and there's, you know -- there's just danger. just one more big point. this is not a core political speech case. he keeps forgetting, he is a criminal defendant. this is just the restrictions that criminal defendants have to get every single day the d.c. circuit said be attentive, sensitive to the first amendment concerns, but this is under the power of congress and the courts to protect the proceeding itself. it's not a first amendment issue. >> he's also a convicted felon.

>> there's that too. >> there's that. harry litman, thank you for spending time with us. we'll stay on this story with your help. thank you very much, my friend. switching gears for us to an urgent call by the united states surgeon general to add warning labels to social media platforms linking their use to damage to the mental health of teens. we'll bring you that story after a very short break. short break (♪♪) (♪♪) try dietary supplements from voltaren, for healthy joints.

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platforms are safe for kids, but there's growing evidence of harm. that's teenly concerning to me, not just as surgeon general but as a parent myself. a warning label would help parents understand these risks. many don't know these risks exist. >> an urgent warning and a call of congressional action for a warning label on social media platforms about how they contribute to the mental health merge among young adults in this country. in a "new york times" op-ed today, the doctor cites evidence from tobacco studies that show warning labels can increase awareness and change behavior. quote, there is no seat belt for parents to click, no helmet to snap in place, no assurance that trusted experts have investigated and ensure that these platforms are safe for our kids, there are just parents and their kids trying to figure it out on their own, pitted against some of the best product engineers and most well resourced companies in the world.

joining our coverage, pediatric intensive care physician, professor of pediatrics, our old friend michael anderson. you're not old, but you've been a friend of the show for a very long time. it's nice to see you. i was so happy to see this. every parent i know struggles with this. when kids start moving around, they have devices, but it is a constant struggle to keep them off it and monitor what they're watching on it. weigh in. >> i give the doctor such credit for this op-ed and just for the notion of a warning label. and you're right, he compares it to -- we have thousands of people dying from not having their seat belts on, now we have seat belt warnings. we've had thousands of people die from tobacco, now we have warnings. just talk to parents. talk to kids in this op-ed, dr. murthy, who does a lot of town halls talking to kids, just talks of their anguish, that they don't feel good about their bodies after they're on social

media. they're on an average of almost five hours a day. and this is adding to the crisis that is pediatric mental health. i was honored to be a part of your program several months ago. you devote a whole lot of time to it, it's still a crisis. and talking about social media or helping parents with social media isn't the only answer, but i think dr. murthy's raising important issues we have to talk about. >> the point about sunscreen and seat belts and other things with warnings is so interesting because the platforms are designed and literally engineered to be addictive. you go back and look at tobacco, it wasn't that they found tobacco caused cancer, a lot of the legal esuccess hinged on the knowing addition of addictive additives. that's the parallel to social media, the algorithms are engineered for stickiness. how do you at least lay on to

the social media platforms as much liability as tobacco had for addictive piece? >> i think the warning label idea is going to gain some traction. i also know there's legislation working its way through congress now. the kids online safety act gets at what you're talking about, nicole. it's the algorithm, the incessant, perpetual scrolling. it is getting kids addicted, and the long-term mental health effects are really, really serious. so it's going to be a whole of society. it is parents asking questions, helping take control of social media, it is pediatricians, my favorite group of professionals that deal with this on a daily basis, but boy, we have to look to lawmaker, just like a.i., just like challenges facing our nation, to figure out the rules and regulations to govern this. dr. murthy ends by talking about how we protect our kids is the moral indicator of how good a society we are. >> it's so important. it's so important. and not to diminish the role of

parents and their pediatricians and people influential inside a family, but it certainly would be helpful if congress would come to the party. dr. anderson, we're going to stay on this story and call on your help as we do that. >> my pleasure. >> nice to see you. another break for us, we'll be right back. k for us, we'll be right back developed with vets. made from real meat and veggies. portioned for your dog. and delivered right to your door. it's smarter, healthier pet food. ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ chewy, a citi client, uses citi's financial expertise to help drive its growth and keep its supply chain moving, so more pet parents can get everything they need... right when they need it. keeping more pets, and families, happy. ♪♪ for the love of moving our clients forward. for the love of progress.

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thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these extraordinary times. we are grateful. the beat with ari melber starts right now. hi ari, happy monday. >> happy monday, thanks, nicole. welcome to the beat, i'm ari melber reporting. we have that story coming up, plus, here he is taking notes and getting ready, james carville, we'll hear from him in a moment. barack obama's return to the campaign trail. there he was all smiles, the democrats' biggest star linking