but certainly this is one of the races where the candidates are pretty similar if not the same on policy. both of them for example denied the results of the 2020 election and maguire's case he went to the capitol on january 6. although woe make the point that he didn't go inside. we'll see who comes out on top. >> he was at the stop the steal rally. ali, thank you very much. and that is going to do it for me today. "deadline: white house" starts right now. hi there, everyone. it is 4:00 in the east. giving license to a convicted felon, he used his platform, one of the biggest in the world to attack and intimidate and threaten is a bridge too far for the highest court in the state of new york. even if they are the presumptive republican presidential nominee with a debate on this schedule in less than ten days. the new york court of appeals dismissing the disgraced

convicted ex-president's latest bid to lift the gag order in the hush money interference case. what does it mean? right now donald trump is prohibited from attacking witnesses, prosecutors, jurors, court staff, and their family members. judge juan merchan has found donald trump to be in violation of the gag order ten times and the 11th could land him in jail as the judge has warned publicly. new york court refusing to hear trump's appeal, quote, upon the grounds that no substantial constitutional question is directly involved. or asa friend joyce vance put it, donald trump's first amendment rights are not violated by the order. it is a rebuke, of course, to team trump which has argued it had constitutional questions of the highest importance. it was part of a political appreciate to getting the gag order lifted and there is an

important reason for that. there is nothing, the only presidential candidate running as a convicted felon wants to do more than delegitimize this process that led to his guilty conviction. trump has been raging against his new york case, watch. >> there is not even a case here. there is no case. and when they saw the jury instructions, when they saw all of the things that happened, and it is not like anybody is a friend of mine. mark levine is a example. they can't believe it. so unfair. >> a president of the united states has a gag order where i'm not allowed to speak because the judge doesn't want the truth to come out. >> could have rs, none of that is true. he could have spoken and told the truth. decided not to. maybe he didn't think he could. but in this light, the gag order does prevent him from sinking his teeth any further into the case and people involved in it.

in this case, according to one recent poll by politico, has turned off a sizable chunk of voters. should be no surprise then that trump's attorneys are trying anything and everything to end the gag order. even writing to judge june merchan that trump is owed special consideration because he's running for president. to that alvin bragg said that the trial ending does not mean everyone is out of the woods just yet. his journey through the new york criminal justice system has only just begun. prosecutors telling the judge this, the court has an obligation to protect the integrity of the proceedings in the fair administration of justice, at least through the sentencing hearing and the resolution of any post trial motion. the ex-president is set to be sentenced on july 11th. donald trump remaining under a gag order limiting what he can say in the historic hush money election interference case that resulted in his guilty

conviction is where we start today with our favorite reporters and friends. correspondent von hilliard is back with us. and joining us host of the podcast, msnbc analyst john heilemann is back, and former sdny deputy chef msnbc legal analyst christy greenberg is back and writer for protect democracy, amanda carp enter is back. von, i'm always astounded by trump's ability to analyze a poll that is bad for him and the worst poll for him is the number of independents that, one, believe the fact that he's guilty. hello to whoever's dog is joining us. i'm sorry you didn't get an intro. and we're in year nine and so accustomed, to he wants to

attack the prosecutors for his campaign. that is big stuff. >> when we talk about the polls, i i think there is plenty of reason to be concerned if your joe biden or trump campaign at the head-to-head match-up. but i look at the shifts that we see. because i think that that is at least a baseline number that we could compare on a timeline to one another. and what you have seen, coming out of the guilty verdict, is a shift among particularly independents away from donald trump. and if you are his camp, this should be of paramount concern. it was independent or conservatives who really shifted the entire dynamic of the 2020 race and what was a narrow outcome in joe biden's favor. so for donald trump, he's quick to highlight the polls showing him up in favor. but when you're looking at these polls, these are different realities and especially when you are -- have agreed to go in a one-on-one match-up on debate

on june 27th, this is a moment where having the gag order remain in place means you are not able to undercut something that clearly voters have atop their mind and feel is a vulnerability for you and your campaign. >> i mean, it is an important reveal, i think, of trump's constant shoving all of this through a political fib. i mean, there really isn't -- because his legal strategy has been a political solution. his legal solution to all of his criminality and criming has always been to be president again. just pardon himself and prosecute and jail the state prosecutors who -- where he can't pardon himself. and what is remarkable and what our team talked about today, is i love jb pritz ger saying we're all in the pot. it is such a slow boil. we're still accustomed to him attacking the rule of law and prosecutors and anyone who

threatens him legally. but we don't always sort of stop and why does he want to be out of the gag order and to be able to attack judge june merchan and michael cohen, because the things they testified to damage him. >> well, i think that is clearly the case, nicolle. there is no doubt that the trump team is looking at, although not acknowledging, and saying the opposite, looking at the same set of numbers that the biden campaign is looking at and that you could see in the public polling. which is not that this guilty verdict has won the race for joe biden by any stretch. and not that anybody -- not in any definitive way proves that any votes will be changed by it by the time we get to november. but we have seen the unknown that we have -- what if a former president gets convicted. what if he's convicted on all of the counts he's been charged with. what will happen to public opinion. what we've seen is a small but

in a race as i say over and over again, it is a margin of error race won or lost on the margins. so small and potentially decisive sliver of voters, it has moved the needle for now. they see that as clearly as, as i said and everybody else does, so, yes, they want to discredit, to try to get those numbers back under control. they'd rather throw as much doubt on the verdict as possible. though the verdict, the most direct place to throw it on the verdict is to throw it at the jurors and at the court and to throw it at the judge. and that is what has been trump's strategy all along. it is also the case that they know that several things will happen that could worsen his position politically. one of them, we see this in the polling, is that a jail sentence, whether it is deferred or immediate, much more likely deferred than immediate, but a prison sentence hurts him in the polls. drives home the severity of the crimes. and he's going to appeal. but between now and november, a

sweeping guilty verdict backed with potentially -- potentially a significant penalty is bad for him politically and he wanted to get as early of a start as possible if trying to discredit everything about that so that he could gain back what small but crucial ground he seems to have lost in the polling because of this outcome. >> yeah, i mean, amanda, i just think back to the -- it is hard to have a lot of memories of the republican primary because it was so hapless and uninspired and so short. but i remember learning that -- i think it was chris christie's campaign had polling data that shows it would come to bear what john and von are talking about. that among the voters that each side is fighting to swing over by november, they're late deciders and consumers of news, theyin gauge late and they care very much about a guilty

conviction, especially on these facts. this is the only case of the four that trump doesn't talk about on the stump. he bags about classified stuff, so he's talking about the pra, presidential records act and calling the insurrectionist from january 6 warriors. he doesn't talk about his collusion with david pecker to smear ted cruz. he talked about the others as an asset. he knows these facts are terrible for him politically. >> yeah, i think he does recognize that. but he's also a person i think we've all learned, he doesn't look at the polls and decide how to calibrate his pog. he takes a position and then tries to bend reality to it. and i think you see that pushing back against the gag orders. and for the record, i don't like that they're called gag orders because it plays into the narrative that he's being somehow unconstitutionally unfairly gagged by a system that is being weaponized against him. so i think a lot of work needs to be done explaining what the gag orders are meant to do.

all they're essentially in a nutshell designed to do is to make sure that he doesn't ferment violence against the judges, the jury, the prosecutors, et cetera, to keep the process safe and that is not a high standard for anyone let alone someone who is a presidential candidate. but what really worries me, nicolle, is that i don't see just donald trump making that argument. earlier today, there was a news story that a couple of dozen republican state attorneys general, people who in red states are supposed to be the keepers of law and order, sent a letter essentially deck rying jack smith when it came to the classified documents case. so i think the smart set politically around trump who is trying to bend this reality to his insane argument are saying we're going to look past the hush money trial and go against the gag orders on the other case and going into the sentencing, talk about how this is just more evidence that he's having the justice system unfairly

weaponized against him. that is false but i fuelly expect that is is what is going to happen. and people need to explain these orders are designed to keep the system safe and he's free to speak, but he is not free to ferment violence like we saw in the other presidential debate he had with joe biden where he had the famous quote where he was asked, will you denounce the proud boys and he called them up, stand back and stand by. >> and we covered yesterday, he wants to continue to lie about the fbi. i mean his lie there is viewed by merrick garland and jack smith and the fbi as representing a very active and clear danger to the fbi work force. it is clear that what you're describing is they're strategy. >> yeah, i wish it wasn't, but i think trump doesn't hide the ball on things like many authoritarians. he tells you exactly what his plans are. we should believe him.

we should be watching exactly how the republican party is coalescing around these radical positions, that in the republican party that you and i grew up in, nicolle, would have been rejected outright. but because donald trump has taken the position, they're trying to retrofit all of the legal philosophy and arguments to try to make it acceptable and that is what needs to be explained and pushed back going into the summer. >> all right, christy, the threat of violence once again isn't abstract. this is michael cohen's lawyer donna perry describing the threat environment he continues to live under. let me play this for you. >> as much as michael is feeling relieved that the trial is over and gratified by the jury's verdict. he also is feeling fairful and properly so given the continued attacks even under the gag order. so i think he's prepared for that. one can never be truly prepared. he's certainly concerned. and we're going to do whatever we can as we have in the past.

but he's certainly concerned that if trump is re-elected, that nothing that i can do or any lawyer can do is really going to be able to help him avoid threats to his safety and to his liberty. >> christy, just talk about what the judge will take into consideration. i know that lifting the gag order isn't on the table for donald trump. but in terms of his sentencing, all of this pushing against it impact what the judge is thinking about for july 11th? >> so, i think it factor news continued proceeding on the gag order and the sentencing on july 11th. we saw the gag order midlevel appellate court saying this gag order is necessary because of donald trump's violent rhetoric. and pointing to the d.a.'s office and pointing to death threats that the d.a. was

getting and the staffers was getting and seeing real intimidation against donald trump's direct targets. and, so, when looking at this gag order, the appellate division said this is necessary, we need this because these threats are so dangerous to the people who are participants in this proceeding and the proceeding isn't over. we're leading toward sentencing. and so donald trump is desperate to attack matthew angelo, saying he's a biden plant, which he isn't and to attack the judge's daughter. that's the two targets that he wanted to talk about. and those are two people, if the gag order was lifted, would just continue to be subjected to even worse threats than presumably they have already seen. so we haven't gotten the d.a.'s response to the motion to lift that gag order. but i expect that what we'll see in that response is a lot of details about the threats that

have been received throughout this trial and the fact that those threats probably got worse and not better since the guilty verdict came down. and as to the sentencing, yes, this absolutely is going to be taken into account with respect to sentencing. donald trump has violated the gag order even after the verdict. talking about the jurors. saying that the jurors didn't smile at him. which by the way, they don't smile at criminal defendants in trials. but any statements about them, that is putting a target at them and nbc's own ryan riley has talked about efforts to identify the juries and threaten them. so as we approach sentencing, these harrowing kind of threats will intensify and it is imperative for judge merchan to take this into account when sentencing donald trump to what i think should be a jail sentence. >> and christy and amanda are talking about the threats and amanda reminds us what trump did last time he was on a debate

stage. it is probably the largest televised audience trump has had since his last campaign. i wonder what the plan is on trump's part? has he pledged not to insight violence. >> i think you're right when you say the largest audience he's had since the last debate. he, folks will recall, he did a 60 minutes interview in october of 2020 in which he walked out on leslie stall. he did the cnn town hall and sat down with kristin welker on "meet the press." outside of these three instances, donald trump has not been a public figure at least on mainstream outlets and of course the right-wing news sources that exist have much smaller reaches from news max to right side broadcasting and oan. of course he's a big presence on his social media account. but in terms ever a true national audience, most families across the country still turn to

tv and cable outlets. and this is i think a moment for him where his team is fully acknowledging that this is an opportunity to reach folks that maybe are only now just dialing in here. does that change the donald trump that we have become accustomed to on the right-wing outlets. no. and there has none about suggestion or insinuation from anybody on his campaign team that he will do just that. because the donald trump that you have had, since january 6, is unvarnished one, not one who has even been remotely convinced that he needs to moderate his tone or his message because he believes that his most effective political positioning and most political messaging throughout his political career has been that when he has been able to be his full unvarnished self. so i think in this debate, he'll look at this as an opportunity to go toe-to-toe with joe biden

and try to suggest that he is someone is that is effective and stronger and more quick than joe biden. whether he's able to effectively convince america of that, i guess that is a question for the american audience come next week. >> i have to sneak in a break. but i do want to put you on the spot, john heilemann. how do we cover that and experience that? he's likely to do what von said, go toe to toe, but with a fire hose of lies. he lost 2020. and he insighted the section. he knew he lost. we learned that. and there is so much in the public record since we last saw donald trump. how do we process what he said on a debate stage. i have to sneak in a break. when we come back, we'll also cover this story. that you were the company you keep. more advisers to the ex-president entangled in a host of legal troubles. this time it is former adviser boris epstein and jenna ellis pleading not guilty for trying to help their boss overturn

their defeat in 2020. we'll take a widening universe of criminality and criminals around trump. plus it is election day in america. and the republican party is showing us once again they stand for nothing, nada, zilch. no policy or platforms, just who could be the most loyal to donald trump. we'll tell you about it. and later in the broadcast, few of the most isolated autocrats on the planet are getting together. breaking bread or whatever they eat. the leaders of russia and north carolina -- russia and north korea, two men donald trump has praised and what they could hope to bring their buddy trump back to office in november. all of those stories and more when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. and intel. clearing the way, [rumble] [whoosh] so you arrive exactly where you belong.

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another day, another trump insider stacking up criminal defense lawyers. another member of team trump facing legal trouble today. his trump adviser boris epstein has been arraigned in arizona in his role if setting up fake slates of electors so donald trump could successfully steal the 2020 election. and trump referred to him as my psychiatrist and a former trump lawyer who tried to stop the trump coup plot, called him a idiot, end quote. whatever you want to call him. >> he's one of 51 trump allies facing charges for attempting a coup in america. and of course there is the donald trump himself, a convicted felon for hiding a plot to interfere in the 2016 election and facing felony charges at the federal and state levels for trying to interfere

in the 2020 election. but all of that is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to trump world's criminal culpability. there is criminality literally lurking in every stage of his public life. his former cfo, allen weisselberg is in prison and peter navarro is in prison for contempt of congress. steve bannon is facing a four-month prison sentence for contempt of congress. and his former chief of staff mark meadows facing felony charges in two states. along with his ex lawyer rudy giuliani. giuliani is also facing fire from a federal judge who scolded him in court yesterday for his fileure to comply with his bankruptcy case. he was forced to file for bankruptcy after a court ordered him to pay $148 million in damages to the two georgia election workers he defamed. we are back with von, and john and amanda and christy. john, before we went to break, i asked you to think about how we

should cover the debate and what you think trump has planned for the debate and whether you think there is any chance they'll commit to not insighting violence, another stand back and stand by moment. >> i don't think that trump is going to precommit to doing anything. and i -- because he's trump, he would claim that he never insighted violence to begin with. so it is a hollow commitment if he made it. i would say three things. one, the trump campaign and donald trump, despite what we were talking about earlier today, in the hour about the impact, the electoral impact of the guilty verdict here, they think they're winning this race. they're confidence is not made up. they think their ahead. and i think you know from your days in campaigns, if you thought you were ahead and managing donald trump's campaign and getting to this big audience, not the political

junkies but for the normies out there that didn't pay much attention to politics. you would be pleading with donald trump, please, just be boring. be dull. don't try to score points. you just need to prevent defense, i'll use a football analogy or a four corners basketball analogy, just look like you're not a lunatic in this race. and also if you were running donald trump's campaign, you would be thinking about those -- i know you have dogs, i know you have dogs, you have pill pockets, he talk the peanut butter pill pocket if you have to give your dog a pill you put the peanut butter around it. i would be thinking about a slug of thorazine in one of his hot dogs right before the debate. if you could get him to calm down, that could be what you want if you were chris. you're not going to get that though. an i think the media question is important and our friend george

stephanopoulos said that the first question in playing prerogative for the cheap seats here, jake tapper and dana bash has a tough job, but the first question has to be who won the 2020 election. and then there is the question, they have a tough job doing this thing live with the mute buttons. real question is what happens after and i think there are a lot of things you could do to cover the debate. and here is the most important that the media at every level has not to do. there is no public event in politics that is more prone to false equivalencies than a debate. it is literally, we write about them and talk about them as if it is a boxing match. so you look down the chart, you're a boxing judge, well biden scored here and trump scored there and he got that jab in there and there is this moment and that moment. the media has to apply a value judgment to -- that joe biden

stumble, did donald trump get in a good zinger here or there. those are irrelevant. there have -- we have to make a value judgment about not just how many lies trump told and fact checking them, but on the things that matter most, what were the two candidates saying about democracy, about institutions, about the rule of law and what were they saying they're going to do in the future and what were they not saying. this is a huge challenge. because the easiest thing in the world is for the media to grade this thing like a prize fight and it is not. because not all punches are created equal and not all punches land with the same force and not -- no one is laying flat out in the ring. but there are going to be things that matter a lot more than other things in this debate and the media must focus on the things that matter in judging this debate. and choosing what to show. >> there is no more important conversation to have in the next

nine days so let's have this one instead of any other we're going to talk about. and amanda carpenter, say more about how this should start and the frame that we should put around -- it could end up being the only debate, depending on how it goes for donald trump. >> yeah. and i think, john is spot on in talking about the things that donald trump may want to accomplish. his aides tell us he's going to be a good boy and stick to a good script and have a robust policy debate. i've heard that before. i think he'll go in with ideas and a couple of things he wants to accomplish. number one, above anything else, because we know this and we've witnessed this he approaches efr interaction as an exercise in power dynamics. i win and you lose and i'm strong and you're weak and i think he's going in with two targets. it is not just president biden, it is the debate moderators and

i know jake and dana will do a great job but donald trump is going in with that kind of mindset. i have two targets to beat here and what i think that involves is telling the first big election lie and adhering to it in that the election was rigged and stolen in every media appearance since january 6. and then the second big lie, which underpins this election and in that the justice system is being unfairly weaponized against him. and then i just think he's sprinkle on if we're preparing for the worst and most turbulent debate stuff about hunter biden to try to knock biden off his game. because again going into this season, donald trump only cares about looking as strong as possible against biden and this man is more practiced than any candidate in history when it comes to performing on television. i've seen a number of commentators think about how donald trump will skip the debate or be rattled by fact there is a lack of television audience. i don't buy either of those things. because i've seen the apprentice

and take him over every tv interview when it is just him in an interview and no one else but a camera. he knows how to do this. if joe biden is not preparing for the absolute worst and the fire hose of lies and have some kind of response to support the rule of law to talk about the convictions with a very clear target in mind of what those responses would be in a way that he doesn't look rattled, he doesn't look tired or unresponsive. that is joe biden. i think it is going to be very difficult. i don't top off this debate at all and the fact that it is the first one so early in the year, that just is a longer runway if donald trump has that kind of performance to set in that narrative over the summer months. >> you know, von, it is such a good exercise in reminding us the reality of trump as a candidate. i mean, the reality is that the way he's survived the access hollywood tape was by going to the debate, i think it was a day

later, and in the eyes of his own campaign and in his mind, and in the minds ever his supporters and people who voted for him, somehow managing to turn everything around and -- and get his campaign on offense. now i found it appalling and below the belt. but that is a known, known about donald trump. where does your mind go when thinks of all that is possible about donald trump in this debate? >> i think jumping off of what you just said and amanda and john just said, is the tangents that donald trump goes on, number one, he doesn't like push back here in the year of 2024. -t was a bygone era that he liked quarrelling, there is a reason he didn't go on the debate stage with the other republican presidential candidates during the primary. he wanted to avoid be called out for his record within the administration, but also the events around january 6. so he avoided going on the debate stage. and then you look at the fact

that he hasn't done mainstream tv interviews and that is clear for the reason he has avoided having to answer direct questions. and that is where the difficulty is going to be for joe biden. because when you're talking about donald trump, and claims that he makes, a lot of them are unexplainable. when he goes and said that war would not have happened with israel, hamas wouldn't have attacked israel if i was in office or if russia wouldn't have invaded ukraine if i was in office, those are tough things to explain or try to push back on because it takes time and it takes seconds and minutes to understand or explain to the public at large. and this is the reality that joe biden is going to have to deal with because many of the claims that he's going to make, about the economy or employment or black or latino employment. they're just not rooted in facts so joe biden is going to have to make the conscience decision of how much does he do explaining to the american public why donald trump is making claims that are not real versus trying to make his own point about what

a second biden administration would look like. >> but you're all raising the $64 million question and we should continue to have this question every day until the debate. what is the responsibility of the presenter and the moderators themselves and the platform itself in terms of what we all know ahead of time will be a torrent of lies. it can't just be the other person used the format if the seconds they have to push back. we have to on your line develop better system with dealing with what we know will be a torrent of lies. such an important kofg. thank you for turning in this direction. von and john stick around. up next, the politics of standing by your man. how trump factors into today's primary election in virginia. we'll tell you about it. don't go anywhere. it. don't go anywhere. sites at once? i like to do things myself. i can't trust anything else to do the job right.

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look, no line at the hot dog stand. yes! only pay for what you need. ♪liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty.♪ (man) every time i needed a new phone, only pay for what you need. i had to switch carriers... (roommate) i told him...at verizon, everyone can get that iphone 15 on them. (man) now that i got a huge storage and battery upgrade... i'm officially done switching. (vo) new and existing customers get iphone 15 on us when they trade in any iphone. verizon john is running against bob good, who is not good. he, despite his name, it really has been bad for virginia and bad for the country and frankly he fought us on so many different things that would have been so good. if he's re-elected, bob good will stab virginia in the back. sort of like he did with me. he was against things that everybody would have wanted and always made it difficult. >> so, i'll answer why we care. this is a republican primary. they're both maga, maga.

but none of that was true about this guy bob good. he literally on a policy level did all of the maga things. but nonetheless, that was donald trump endorsing the opponent of one bob good in a gop congressional primary election that takes place in virginia. it is bizarre. there are two things about bob good. he's a proud election denier. he refused to certify president biden's victory in 2020. trump should like him. he stood outside of trump's hush money case like a lap dog with a red tie, as part of the brigade. but good for a few minutes was a fan of governor ron desantis in the republican presidential primary. so for that, according to trump, bob good is bad and he will back stab the country and virginia as did he trump. it paints the clearest picture we could find today for what the republican party has become.

once a party of issues and policy, now actually in public, not pretending to be anything other than a cult. following one man, with loyalty to trump is the ome thing that matters. von and john are back with us. john heilemann, i think it is important sometimes to just peek over the neighbor's fence and see what is happening in the republican party. i try to resist doing it unless there is something measurable and important in terms of illustrating what the republican party has become. what do you think is going to happen tonight? >> oh, i think the trump endorsed candidate will do. because in republican primaries they do. but i assume. i haven't been on the ground reporting there. i would say this, nicolle, one of the things that i love about this story is illustrated another thing. donald trump went to san francisco where he had this big

money fundraiser in pacific heights hosted by a bunch of tech people. a couple of whom, i'm not going to name them on the air, but a couple of whom first tried to get bobby kennedy jr. to run and then backed ron desantis, and was close to ron desantis and now they've come bowing and scraping back to trump. does trump not take their money? no, he takes their money. the problem with bob good is that he's interchangeable with the other guy. the trump -- if trump has two maga empty-headed cultists, people who are willing to suck up to him constantly, the one who only sucked up to him 100% of the time will win out as long as the person who betrayed him doesn't have any money for him. and that is bob good's problem. and that may be a slated different kind of window that you're looking for but i think that is the whole story here.

these are -- these are martinettes. the maga congressman are all the same for trump. he could evaluate on the differences like what-d was that guy mean to me a few months ago, i'll go with him. >> and when we sort of, from outside of washington, bemoan what has become of washington, it is just important to understand where the maga factory gets its recruits. and this is a guy, as maga as can be, and in john's words, the younger maga vampire. >> he's the chair of the house freedom caucus, that is always the far right most conservative wing for the house chamber for the republicans and those are the folks who are on the front lines of government shutdown, and the fights that wrankled

main line conservatives in congress and that is who we are talking about. the chair of that group is bob good. and after that endorsement of ron desantis and he tries to run back to trump's corner and i was there when he talked to cameras outside of the courtroom, who was there, john maguire, who he's running against in this very primary. guess where john flag guyer was on january 6, he was at the stop the steal protests. he did not enter the capitol. but when you look on paper, there was one guy that was there outside to listen to donald trump that day on january 6. and the other part of this is there is one person that holes the keys to these primaries and that is donald trump. kevin mccarthy is trying to run some primary opponents against folks like bob good who voted to oust him from the speakship this last year. and in this case he's on the same side as donald trump trying to kick bob good out. but kevin mccarthy tried to do that with nancy mace. and we have a couple of other

situations with folks like eli crane and matt gaetz. so the question is, is kevin mccarthy or donald trump going toe-to-toe in those races as well and once again is donald trump the ultimate decider in some of the key republican primaries. >> it is amazing. von hilliard and john heilemann, thank you so much for spending time with us. thank you for the conversation you started about the debate. we'll keep it up. there is another split screen moment to tell you about in america today. while trump and his allies are mired in legal issues almost daily of their own making. president joe biden today is out presidenting, running on his record and continuing to paint his rival for what he is, a convicted felon. white house press secretary joins us next. don't go anywhere.

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because we the people means all the people, including you. so call now or go online to my aclu.org to become a guardian of liberty. we could both secure the border and provide legal path ways to citizenship. we to acknowledge that the patience and good will of the american people is being tested by their fears at the border. they don't understand a lot of it. these are the fears my predecessor is trying to play on when he said immigrants poison the blood of the country. i'm not interested in playing politics with the border and immigration. i'm interested in fixing it. >> that was president joe biden in the last hour marking the 12th anniversary of daca protection with new action on immigration in the face of deliberate inaction by maga republicans being led by donald trump. president biden announced new measures making it easier for

dreamers to get work visas and creating a path to legal status for about 500,000 spouses of u.s. citizens. president biden said he's working to fix our immigration system and to keep families together. an alarming contrast with trump's constant demonization of immigrant immigrants and mig rants and a mass deportation that could tear apart millions of families and communities. let's bring into our coverage karine jean-pierre. >> hi, nicolle, good to see you. thanks for having me. >> i think all of the time than. >> you know, i think all the time about how different the job is when i had a job and campaign and the white house. i wonder how you pick your battles. i peaked at media, i'm getting dry for something i said yesterday about how the video of president biden wandering off. he was walking over to say hello to a sky diver. the right is so triggered

by the facts and a fact check. i wonder how you get out a positive message. it's a much more two-step process. i wonder on immigration specifically, what your strategy is. >> thank you so much for this opportunity. i think you're right. i think there is so much misinformation, disinformation, as we've been talking about. you talked about the video the president wandering and it's not true. the president wasn't wandering. he was talking to a parachuter that was right in front of him and what you saw is the republican party really manipulating what was being said and what was being seen by the american people. it's also very insulting to the folks, the viewers who are watching it. so we believe we have to call that out. we've been calling it cheap fakes. that is something that came directly from the media outlets in calling it that, the fact checkers calling it that. so we're going to be really

clear about that as well. and calling it out from where we are from where we stand. today's an important announcement. we're talking about immigration. at the beginning of the segment, you talk about what the president had been trying to do. this is not about politics for this president. this is about fixing it. fixing a broken immigration system that's been broken for decades. when the president walked into this administration, he said okay, we need comprehensive legislation to deal with what we're seeing at the border. to deal with a system as i stated has been broken for decades. so what we have been seeing from republicans and congress is that they don't want to do this. they don't want to take the direction the president wants to take. they want to listen to the former president. former president trump, when he called them and said hey, do not work on this bipartisan option in trying to secure the border and moving forward in dealing with immigration policy. don't do it because it will hurt me politically and help joe

biden. and that's what we saw. and so what the president decided to do is that he decided to take action. he decided to take action. you saw that in the announcement today. you saw that when he a couple of weeks ago, announced what we needed to do in securing the border. it is up to us to be clear to the american people, to talk directly to the american people and to lay out what the administration is trying to do every day. it is indeed cutting through the noise and when we have an opportunity to call out the misinformation, the disinformation, what has been manipulated and being distorted and things are being shared without context, we're going to call it out. >> yeah. without context piece is the greatest sin, right? i mean, they just, and it makes you wonder what they're afraid of. i keep wondering as with the

state of the union address when president biden echoed president reagan. on immigration, the world view is more akin to how george w. bush and john mccain and ronald reagan viewed immigration. i wonder if you guys bat around sort of ways to orient president biden's position in trying to solve the situation in a world view similar to some of those famous republicans. >> i think you're right. and you've heard it directly from the president today. he talked about who we are as a country. the importance of putting forth legal pathways but at the same time, securing our border. if you think about the announcement he made today, it's about protecting american citizens, families. making sure we keep them together and not separate them. let's not forget what happened in the last administration. you had the trump administration that decided that they were going to remove babies from their parents. from their mothers and their fathers.

that's what we saw this past administration do. with our administration, we are still working on trying to put those families together. so this announcement that the president made was about how do we keep families together. people who have been here on average 23 years who have paid taxes, who have been part of their churches, who have been part of their community in a real way. part of the economy. these are spouses of american citizens. some of them are children of those spouses. and this gives them an opportunity to keep these families together. the president believes we can do both. we can put forward legal pathways and we can also, also make sure that we have an immigration system, to your point of your question to me, that is fair. that is just. that represents who we are as a country. >> what's the debate strategy and how much time is it taking up on the president's schedule preparing for it?

>> i'm going to be really mindful because the debate is part of what the campaign putting forth and leading on so i got to be careful as a federal employee to not speak to that directly. look, i think one of the things that i will say and i will say proudly is that this is a president that wants to always, regardless of it's a debate stage or not, talk about the issues and there's a real contrast if we think about what extreme republicans are trying to do and what this president is trying to do. this president wants to make sure we are for the middle class, for the working class. you have congressional republicans who are trying to, want to give a tax break to billionaires and corporations. who want to gut medicare. who want to gut social security. and this president is going to always continue to fight for americans and that's what you can expect from this president. not just on the debate stage, but every single day. and that's what you saw today when he spoke about his announcement on immigration.

>> thank you for coming out there. it's great to see you, my friend. >> thank you, my friend. bye. >> thank you. up next for us, could there be an october surprise this election year? new reporting as russia's leader travels to north korea today. we'll bring you that story when deadline white house continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. te house conts after a quick break. don't go anywhere. katie! its future you. constipation with belly pain again? our doctor figured it out. she said... it's ibs-c and linzess could help you get ahead of it. linzess is not a laxative. it's a once-daily pill that helps you get ahead of your symptoms. it's proven to help you have more frequent and complete bowel movements. and helps relieve overall abdominal symptoms - belly pain, discomfort, and bloating. do not give linzess to children less than two.

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at a very young age, he was

able to assume power. he's a smart cookie. >> the problem is not that putin is smart, which of course, he's smart, but the real problem is that our leaders are dumb. >> president xi of china, putin, kim jong-un, all of these leaders are at the top of their game. mentally. they're at the top of their game. >> hi, again. everybody. it's 5:00 in the east. no one is on the receiving end of trump's praise quite like the dictators, kim jong-un and vladimir putin. he doesn't have anything that nice to say about anything else. the criminally convicted disgraced ex-president has so much affection and praise and love and admiration for the murderous autocrats. it must be upsetting for him to see his two pals on the world stage without him today. for the first time in more than 20 years, the russian president has made his way to north korea. as you can see from the banners all over pyongyang, he got a very warm reception there. the booming alliance that

emphasizes the two leaders' ice ice isolation. "the new york times" reports this -- poses a particular challenge for washington. the united states once relied on moscow's cooperation in its attempts to curb north korea's nuclear and missile program. now, it faces a kremlin intent on playing spoiler to american geopolitical interests around the world. putin's visit comes as russia has received support and weapons from north korea in its ongoing brutal war in ukraine and north korea wants help building up its ballistic missile program. new reporting says it may present itself in the form of an october surprise that could benefit ex-president trump. quote, u.s. officials are also bracing for north korea to potentially take its post provocative military actions in a decade close to the u.s.

presidential election. possibly at putin's urging, the official said. the timing, they said, could be designed to create turmoil in another part of the world as americans decide whether to send president biden or former president trump back to the white house. quote, we have no doubt that north korea will be provocative this year. it's just a matter of how escalatory it is. that's where we start the hour with some of our favorite experts and reporters and friends. courtney is here with us. byline on that extraordinary new piece of reporting in nbc. plus, former cia director, now msnbc senior national security analyst, john brennan is here. and professor of history at nyu, author of strong men, ruth. courtney, take us through what you and our colleague are reporting. >> yeah, so you know, as we saw there in the excerpt from the story, there is a belief in the biden administration that there will be more provocative

military action in north korea this year. i have to say, historically, north korea tends to do more, act out more militarily in an election year. but the concern among a number of biden administration officials who we spoke with is that it could be more and more at putin's urging. we just saw a video of putin arriving in north korea. the first time in more than two decades that he's traveled there, but it's not the first time they have met even recently. they got together in russia in september. since then, we have seen north korea send millions of rounds of artillery shells, ammunition and even missiles to russia that have been used with effect in ukraine. millions of artillery shells in a conflict that largely has become about ammunition and attrition. so it has really made a difference there. the concern now among biden administration officials is what comes next if anything. is it possible that in exchange

for this large number of ammunition and equipment that north korea has provided russia, that russia could provide them, north korea, with military technology? things like technology for ballistic missile and satellite launches. potentially even for their nuclear submarine program, but also, is russia, as part of this growing alliance between the two countries, is russia encouraging north korea to act out more this year to essentially disrupt or cause chaos in the american elections later this year? some of the things that officials spoke to us about are the possibility of north korea carrying out another nuclear test potentially sometime this fall. these are all the sorts of things that the u.s. has been looking for but i have to say it seems unclear what exactly putin and kim jong-un are talk about during this meeting. it doesn't seem like u.s. officials are very certain. a lot of it remains in the realm of speculation.

>> director brennan, in terms of what we know as a public, a pretty deep record of trump's affinity for both leaders. what, if any nexus between sort of trump admiring both of them and their newfound closeness exists? >> well, it's very worrisome. worrisome that the fact russia has enhanced its military relationship with north korea and those conventional munitions north korea's is providing is really helping russia on the battlefield. just like we're concerned about russia's growing relationship with iran. but this year in particular i think is most concerning. i think it's prudent for the national security officials of the united states to be worried about what could happen because this year is more important for putin in terms of the u.s. presidential election than the previous two. it's quite obvious to all that he has a preferred candidate in the upcoming election. he wants trump to be back in the

white house. president biden has been a painful thorn in putin's side over the past several years and keeping the nato alliance together and supporting this. so is putin trying to think about what he can do in the run up to the election that could in fact make it more difficult for the biden administration to have to deal with yet another problem on the international stage. so therefore, again, i think our national security structure going to be looking at what north korea might do. as courtney pointed out, a nuclear test, shooting missiles in the direction of guam. there are a number of things that can happen. it's clear that i think putin is looking to do something other than just information operations which he did in previous elections and will he try to antagonize the biden administration by getting these fellow authoritarian leaders to

cause trouble. >> you know, ruth, when i think about the republican party's migration on russia and putin and i think about the republicans i worked for. john mccain describing putin as a murderous thug. then you listen to trump supporters at rallies on tape recording by vaughn hillyard, they don't think there's anything wrong with putin. tucker carlson is there talking about how beautiful it is. i wonder what role this sort of boil of the frog, normalizing of our adversaries plays in terms of trump's plot? >> well, one part is domestic where trump has been conditioning americans to think that these kind of murderous leaders are preferable and he's been helped but tucker carlson who not so long ago said leadership requires killing

people. he's been advertising xi and the leader of north korea as not only the greatest intelligent leaders, but also his buddies. the big picture here is that the world will be safer because he is president. when he says putin -- quite the opposite. it's a deadly serious situation because there's too many people invested in trump coming back. then for say financial reasons and these regimes can start up again if trump is in the white

house. >> courtney, i wonder what sort of back channels are being activated to reassure our allies in the reason that america's not going to head down the same path with north korea as trump did with russia. >> one thing we've been hearing more and more is about this strengthened and even growing relationship the u.s. has with allies in the region. specifically japan and south korea. whenever we ask about this, when carol and i were reporting on this story, whenever we would go to u.s. officials and defense officials, how is the u.s. going to do this. we were being told we're strengthening our relationships. we're showing partnering together with exercises. it seems that's the way the u.s. is really countering this. kim jong-un and putin want to appear together on the world stage. we'll appear with allies at the same time and we have this military alliance that's decades

old. that seems to be the main way we've been hearing about it. officials really are watching to see if anything comes out of this meeting between the two of them this week because the concern is not just about could there be another transfer of additional ammunition or could they talk about the possibility of more assets that north korea could give to russia for use in ukraine, but i think there's more concern about what potential technology could be changed here. when you think about some of the things north korea has been working towards, the ability to fire a ballistic missile, nuke capable to the other side of the world. the concern here is that is russia providing north korea with something that could be a game changer. and i think that's really what the officials were speaking to are watching this week. >> director brennan, carol also reported on this idea of an october surprise, which going back to your testimony about

russia's role and the trump campaign wittingly or unwittingly being aided, what should we not fail to imagine this time around in terms of what this alliance could do to disrupt the american presidential election in october? >> well, i think we know that in many respects, what's happening in ukraine is existential for putin. he's admired there. he really does see a trump election as a lifeline because i do believe that trump would get out of ukraine quickly as far as u.s. military support. as well as economic assistance to ukraine. this election upcoming is going to be crucial in terms of the next four years. whether or not u.s. foreign policy is going to continue to emphasize the importance of these alliances and partnerships around the globe so we can confront china and north korea

and others. a lot of the foreign capitals, they worry that some of the things that are happening now such as with north korea and japan and other places, they wonder how durable that is in terms of a u.s. commitment. because if trump comes back in, they feel as though putin, president xi and others will be able to have their way as far as encroachment on democratic systems both internally as well as maybe going across sovereign borders. >> ruth, let me read you some reporting from nbc from february about what russia's already doing ahead of 2024. spreading disinformation advance of the election using fake online accounts and bots to damage joe biden and his fellow democrats. the dissemination of attacks is part of a continuing effort by moscow to undercut american military aid to ukraine in solidarity with nato, experts said. someone involved in the mueller investigation told me to think

about it this way. look at everything putin was willing to do in '16. just to aid sort of roll the dice on trump and avoid hillary clinton. then look at what director brennan is talking about. what he's embroiled with. this existential war in ukraine. i mean, what in your view, what is the answer to your question, what should we not fail to imagine putin and russia would do to interfere with the election? >> there will be a huge increase not only in information, disinformation, but we know that putin has been not only in the u.s. and other democracies causing kind of low level terroristic and sabotage actions, the thing about autocrats is that they thrive on chaos. they like to disseminate what i call in my book, shock events. small and large. and they need to destabilize the

whole international system because autocrats often find a following when people feel that existentially threatened. it could be a domestic crisis like the one that brought hitler to power or after the collapse of communism in russia. the total human and social disasters that putin came out. so it's a very volatile time internationally and they want to make it through disinformation and other means. hybrid warfare. they want to make it as volatile as possible within the u.s. as well because they think that's going to help trump. >> director brennan, do you think we are more or less savvy to what is russian sourced disinformation online in our politics than we were in '16 right now? >> it depends on what you mean by we. i do think the intelligence community and national security

officials understand the sophistication of the russian efforts. in terms of how they've been able to exploit the digital domain, social media platforms and so on. but when i listen to members of congress from the republican side of the aisle, they continue to ignore it and make excuses for what we see happening across the board coming from russia. and so therefore, i think the russians recognize that there's a large portion of the american public who listen to the propaganda. those pundits and others who continue to feed disinformation to the american electorate, which is what they're hoping for. that that disinformation, combined with more disruption and instability on the global front, is going to lead to a greater support for donald trump. this is what i think the russian game plan is. they are going to do everything possible, i think, in order to try to ensure that donald trump is going to come out on top in november. >> ruth, i guess i'm old enough and did politics long ago in that that used to be politically

damaging. i wonder what it means in terms of how far down the road toward autocracy we are that this is all out. you can, i could air a clip showing how the republicans are parroting russian state tv. that used to be politically lethal. that it isn't anymore means what? >> it's a huge testament to the success of trump and his enablers in the gop. and we've had so many things that have broken taboos. january 6th, a mob assaulting the capitol to keep somebody in power illegally and then one out of two parties embracing that event as a patriotic act and effectively the gop has exited democracy it doesn't respect. you have gop officials going on tv saying they won't necessarily respect the results of the elections. all of that plays, this signals

a very different atmosphere. we're kind of in this twilight zone due to trump and the gop normalizing extremism and disruption. >> we want to thank courtney for starting us off. she had to run and do more reporting. we want the thank you, director brennan. we'll stay on this story. i can't imagine there's anyone sleeping well at night thinking about all of this. thank you. ruth is sticking around a little longer. still ahead, pyongyang on the potomac. how republicans in congress continue to fall all over themselves in efforts to flatter and fawn over their dear leader. the criminally convicted disgraced ex-president. plus, a new superpac launched to help moderate republican women voters feel good about re-electing and voting for president biden. the cofounders of the seneca project will debut their new ad.

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when it comes to trump's public image in the aftermath of his criminal conviction in new york, there isn't enough lipstick in the western hemisphere to cover up that particular pig. but republican lawmakers are giving it a try anyway. for trump's sake. yes. but mostly for theirs. "usa today" calls it the summer of trump for the house of representatives where in republicans jockey and jostle just for a chance to be noticed by the disgraced ex-president in all his pathological vanity.

they're doing so by flooding the docket with symbolic and humiliating flattered. paul gosar introduced a bill that would require the u.s. treasury to start printing $500 bills again for the first time in 79 years with trump's face on them. maybe his mug shot. at least it would be a more economical way for trump to pay off the $454 million judgment in his civil fraud trial. a florida congresswoman promoted a bill that would award trump the congressional gold medal for his, wait for it. foreign policy positions. and then there's one they want to name after him. one such bill having to do with the united states coastal exclusive economic zone. an area more than 4 million square miles larger than our country's total land mass. all of this just to get an at a

boy or at a girl from a convicted felon. creator of the circus, mark mckinnon is here. ruth is still with us. i quoted john mccain in the last block because in covering trump's affection for putin, i just always wish he were around to smack some sense and reality into his old republican party. and i wonder what you think when you watch how quickly the party has sort of devolved into autocrat worship. >> exactly right. i think about mccain all the time and how miss his voice and his spine. and you know, it's not surprising to most of us what trump does or thinks. what's shocking is the extent to which the entire republican party has rolled over and they're about out of shoe polish right now from all the bootlegs that's going on. i remember joking with my circus

colleagues when we were at the white house when trump was initially elected. one mentioned jokingly this notion that trump would em blazen across the front of the white house, his gold logo. now it doesn't seem to be so much of a joke. i'm sure people are thinking about putting him on mount rushmore and some of the examples you mentioned. the interesting thing to me and really depressing thing is that the price of entry into trump world today is not support. it's not being smart, experienced. it is the level to which you will humiliate yourself and loyalty isn't enough. you have to be humiliated in order to really rise in the ranks of trump world. >> well, i mean, mckinnon, you know some of these people. paul gosar, marjorie taylor greene, aren't what threatened the democracy. paul gosar's relatives were on this program warning us about

him. it's the rob portmans. the mitch mcconnells. john cornyns. the people who know better. take me inside their psychology. why are they on the side that threatens our democracy? >> you can count on one hand the number of people who have remained, kept their principles. liz cheney's one and there's just a few others. you're right. everybody has folded. again, the really depressing thing is to recognize that the human condition which apparently, when it comes to, it cares more about power than principle. republicans have just abandoned any sense of principle on issues that have been the hallmark of the republican party on foreign policy, standing up to putin, anti trade barriers, all those sorts of things. just thrown out the window and it doesn't matter to these people because they care more about being in trump's favor

which means being potentially in power in congress. >> you know, ruth, it is one of the most autocrat jacent behavior patterns. these people ran. they're on video running and hiding on january 6th from trump supporters in an insurrection incited by trump. and the fact that they opened their arms to him after running from his supporters in an insurrection he incited, is something that requires all of us to stop and ask why. tell me how, what kind of marker it is, what mile marker? >> to have autocracy and all the things trump is doing, i call it ritual humiliation, and all dictators do it to their elites. they pit them against each other so that they can compete to see

who is most loyal and who can gravel the best, preferedly on camera. authoritarian ism doesn't require you betray others, but bf all, that you betray yourself. that you have a kind of moral collapse and that everything is done for the leader and you can't even stand up for yourself. that's the sickness. the sadism of these people like trump. having, forcing republicans to run for their lives to call their loved ones on january 6th because they thought they weren't going to make it then making them, or them doing it themselves. claiming him after. and forgetting quote and not being able to speak about that trauma is a sign of this moral collapse and that's what you need to have autocracy. it's very frightening, but it's out of the strong man playbook. >> what, ruth, if anything,

breaks the cycle? >> that's a good question. sadly, in the past, i mean, where you have a real regime like fascist regimes, it actually took being bombed by the allies for the personality cults of mussolini and hitler to start to shrivel and people started police record that is people started only in 1942, '43, denouncing the leader out loud because they lost their fear. they didn't care anymore. now, you know, it's very sad because it's an easy fix in one way that they have to band together against trump because polling is showing he's less popular being a convicted felon. it's a liability for him. and so the path is clear. it's just sad they didn't get off the trump highway to hell on january 7th and mike pence could have led them there. that's the recipe and otherwise,

if he comes back into the white house, it's really much more difficult. >> i mean, mark, the pathway exists, right? mike pence for the first time in american political history isn't backing the president he worked for. esper, for the first time in history, isn't backing the president he served. john kelly for the first time in history as former chief of staff, isn't backing the president he served. i mean, none of the cabinet. the vice president. i mean, the ad almost writes itself. do you remain optimistic that the fever can break? >> i'm full of hope and i think the right and only pathway for us is through democracy. we are the greatest democracy in the world and hopefully people will be able to exercise their vote when they realize what the options are. but that outcome is really frightening.

when you think about what you just pointed out, the people who really matter and serve trump are not supporting him. the other half with also convicted felons. they're in the same place he is and those who didn't are the ones who stood up. >> it's an unbelievable moment. thank you for shining a light on it for us and with us. mark, ruth, thanks so much. when we come back, building and adding to the biden coalition. there's a brand-new effort underway to reach out to moderate republican women and give them the permission structure they need to enthusiastically vote for president biden in november. the cofounders of a brand-new super pac will be our guest after a very short break. don't go anywhere. t after a very short break don't go anywhere. other. we start by gh so i can learn about your family, lifestyle, goals and needs, allowing us to tailor your portfolio. (wife) what about commission-based products? (fisher investments) we don't sell those. we're a fiduciary, obligated to act in your best interest.

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i do think it hurt the republicans in '22. it did. but i think the republicans didn't know how to talk about the issue. and when it came to things having to do with abortion, it really, it really hurt the republicans. they didn't know how to talk about the issue and now i think they're learning how to talk about it. the states are all deciding right now and i think it's working the way that people wanted it to work. and it's going to bring the country together on an issue that was very, very bad. >> shocking that he has a female voter problem, isn't it? just watching that makes my uterus ache. that was the disgraced

ex-president bragging to sean hannity about being the one to strip the constitutional right away from american women for the first time ever. claiming that the issue isn't dobbs. isn't abortion. it isn't women being forced to flee their states for healthcare. watching their babies who they want suffer or almost dying themselves. it's a message problem, folks. a new group is using that delusional world view, that insanely incorrect world view to tap into one of trump's largest vulnerabilities in the upcoming election. that is women voters. specifically women living in the suburbs. the new group is called the seneca project. it is a coalition of bipartisan women dedicated to mobilizing moderate women voters in key swing states. the issue the disgraced ex-president appears to be insanely delusional and out of touch on. in terms of not understanding

how angry women are across the political spectrum about their freedom. freedom to make choices about their own bodies by trump. the first ad airing on our show for the first time. watch. >> the supreme court overturned roe versus wade and ended a woman's constitutional right to an abortion. there's a threat facing women in america. that transcends party lines. >> my doctor doesn't care about me. >> it's time we ask ourselves do we still value the freedoms we've fought for? this election is a choice and it is a time for choosing. we're told we have to choose between left or right, but we know what the real choice is. it's a choice between our freedom or their control. between our right to determine our own destiny or donald trump. so seriously, america, what the hell are we doing?

we can't sit on the sideline while women suffer and die because a right we once had has been criminalized. if we don't make the right point, there's no state to escape to. choosing our future is a right we have for now and that choice is us to up. >> wow. let's bring in cofounder and ceo of the seneca project, tara setmeyer and chief creative officer, michelle kenny. great to see both of you. thank you for letting us debut that ad. it does not disappoint. tell me, tara, what this campaign looks like launching today and going forward to november. >> yeah. thank you so much for having us. it was really important that we debuted this ad in a place we knew appreciated the urgency of now with you and this network and your viewers. because when michelle and i made the decision to do this, we recognized that women voters are

not just, it's not just a woman's vote is a means to a political end this time around. in 2024, our lives are literally on the line here. and we wanted to make sure that someone was talking to regular, average, every day, moderate women. we felt like there was a void that needed to be filled there. that no one was talking to regular women. we've seen polling show there's a lot of disengaged voters, too, and we need to make sure we explain to women what's at stake. the stakes are so high and to get those disengaged women paying attention and realizing that we still do as we say in the ad call this a time for choosing. that you still have that opportunity to choose now. for now. and it's up to us what that future looks like. not only for us, but for our future generations. just like the women in the past, like the seneca falls women, that's where we got the name from as a nod to the history, the birthright of the women's rights movement. just like it was a coalition for those woman who said enough was

enough. they were tired of being treated as second class citizens and now here we are in 2024 being potentially treated as second class citizens again. are plan is to target those nikki haley type voters and left of center voters to beat back the maga extremism and make sure they vote for president biden who's the only person in this binary choice of a campaign that will actually protect womens' rights and make sure we don't go back to the 1840s. >> tara, i have 40 questions for you. i'll start with this one. i think what our audience expects is that people like you and me sort of own our own role in this. i worked in the bush administration. bush appointed alito. we have some culpability on this. we have more to do to help avenge what has become of a radicalized supreme court. and i wonder how much of this is

speaking to some of the women who are the decisive vote for donald trump in '16. they're part of how we got a donald trump presidency. how do you sort of message that? >> yeah. i'm glad you brought that up because i talk about this all the time. i spent 27 years in the republican party and i often have to re-examine what role i played in the mess we're in here, but you know, focusing on fighting for freedom and democracy and trying to galvanize other people focusing on women is to give that permission structure to those women who have been maybe in the republican party for a long time. that may have felt that i'm not trying to be a democrat, i don't know how i feel about that. it doesn't matter. we're speaking to you. doesn't matter if you voted for trump before. if you voted for trump twice. it also doesn't matter if you're a democrat or republican, if you're bleeding out in an emergency room in a state that has criminalized your choice to have proper healthcare. doesn't matter. that's why our bipartisan

advisory committee that includes senator boxer, mary trump. denver riggleman because the guys are important, too. especially the girl dads. alex boarstein. we're bipartisan. michelle comes from democrat world. she'll explain to you that you know, we're speaking to these moderate republican women because you know, they need to hear it from us. if it's not us, then who and if it's not now, then when? we have to do it. the time for choosing is a funny story. that's a nod to reagan's famous speech. we wanted to take back that idea the right to choose. that right to choose is much bigger now than just abortion rights. thest a right to choose the fuchl of our lives and how we as women are treated in this country. when michelle first wrote the script, we wrote the script together. our first time ever writing a script so we're really proud of that, that we were able to do

this together. michelle voiced over the ad. she said i don't know, what do you think? it's important that people understand the choice is what matters. i said it reminds me of the reagan speech, a time to choose. michelle said i don't watch reagan speeches. i'm a democrat. >> we don't do that. we don't do that, but there was a lot to take from that speech that really works in this moment. and so you know, we're laser focused on making sure that women understand the stakes in this election. and when they go into that voting booth, that's their choice. that's our choice. it is no one's business. you don't have to tell anybody who you voted for and there are fewer and fewer sacred places for women in this country to make personal and private decisions about their lives and their futures and one of those places is a voting booth. so like what tara said. we don't care if you voted for donald trump one time or two

times. we just care that you don't vote for him again. so you have to think about what kind of future you want to leave for your children and if you want to hold on to the rights that we have now, the only choice is joe biden. >> i love this collaboration. i have to sneak in a break, but i want to ask you about something that you alluded to. my theory is that there's a huge hidden male vote. there are a lot of men that don't want to see abortion become a crime for which women go to jail. their daughters, wives, mothers. i want to ask what you're seeing in the data and what you have in store next. i have to sneak in a quick break. we'll be right back. don't go anywhere. break. we'll be right back. don't go anywhere.

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got him. good game. thanks for coming to our clinic, first one's free. we're back with tara and michelle. michelle, how do you make sure, i think i know the answer because abortion is to personal to our bodies. but how do you make sure that this doesn't get conflated or lied about the way just about every other element or issue in the 2024 campaign seems to be vulnerable to? >> well, i think we can all agree there's a lot of disinformation going on. specifically on the right. and that cohort is having a lot of help in a lot of female enablers in the republican party, which is always just really confusing to me because i had always thought that the foundations of a conservative and republican party was about small government.

so i think that you know, making sure that our message stays in line with just the right of center left of center and those independent women that we can really get our message to them and be really specific about it. and you know, i grew up in rural america. i know a lot of republicans. i know a lot of independents. and i still talk to a lot of people from back home. i even talked to someone just the other day who was telling me that she was getting her hair done and the issue had come up like it sometimes does, and her hair stylist asked her to go outside with her because she was too nervous talk about it inside in the salon. she said i'm not a republican, a democrat, i'm an independent and i voted for trump in the last election but i have had enough. i have had enough. they have gone too far. and i think we can all agree here that the dog caught the car and for some reason keep doubling down on it. i think we just have to keep on

message and keep the drum beating in the right direction. >> tara, what is that look like? do you expand the conversation with this group of vital, i agree they're a vital part of the electorate, important part of the biden coalition. do you expand it to what republicans plan to do with ivf and contraception? >> yes. absolutely. we talk about that. that it's not just when we're talking about the threats that face american women. it transcends party lines as we've seen. and this mixed messaging on ivf and contraception and even mean it far. and there was a lack of imagination before about how far the extremist maga agenda would go, but they're telling us. they're telling us every day. they're telling us in the states. they're showing us. it's not just in idaho or texas, it's louisiana, it's missouri, and, guess what, it's going to come to a state near you if donald trump and maga extremists are voted into power. they want to nationalize this.

look at project 2025. they do not trust women. one thing donald trump was right about, there is a violent majority out there, but we believe that silent majority are women and women are not going to be silent anymore. women have had enough. enough is enough and we are not going to be treated as second-class citizens. for the men out there who are allies, there are millennial dads, dads to daughters that are uncomfortable with their daughters growing up in a world where their grandmothers had more rights than they do right now. so they are allies and we welcome them into this fight with us because it's going to take all of us. so it's going to take all of us in freedom and solidarity to make sure that those rights are protected and that we tell those stories. how do we combat misinformation? we tell the stories of women. we talk -- we meet them where they are. because you cannot misinterpret the real experiences that women are going through across this country and what the ramifications have been, what the stakes are for women if this

extremist agenda is allowed to go forward. so that's -- that's how we combat the misinformation part and tell those stories and, like i said, by women, for women, if not us, then who? and if not now, then when? we ask women to come and join us and the dads, too, come and join us, we need you as allies. >> i love a campaign message that is simple, that is singular and that is targeted. so for that i thank both of you, tara setmayer, michelle kinney, please come back. we look forward to watching all of your efforts over the next five months and beyond. a quick break for us. we will be right back. beyond a quick break for us we will be right back. ♪ ♪ i got the power of 3. i lowered my a1c, cv risk, and lost some weight. in studies, the majority of people reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. i'm under 7. ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as stroke, heart attack, or death in adults also with known heart disease. i'm lowering my risk. adults lost up to 14 pounds.

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nature is wild. your home doesn't have to be. the los angeles school board today passed a resolution that set in motion a plan o ban cell phones all day on campus, saying the devices distract students from learning, lead to anxiety and allow for cyber bullying. it's an effort california governor gavin newsom is calling to make statewide, the resolution in los angeles cites a national survey on drug use and health by the substance abuse and mental health services administration, it found that among those born after 1995 anxiety increased 139% from 2010 to 2020, coinciding with the rise in smartphones and social media. the move comes just one day after the surgeon general announced that he would push for a warning label on social media platforms advising parents that using the platforms might damage

adolescents' mental health. the los angeles ban would take effect in january of 2025 after details are approved in a future meeting by the board of education. we will keep an eye on this story. another break for us. we will be right back. story. another break for us we will be right back. and the cleaning power of dawn. watch it make soap scum here... disappear... and sprays can leave grime like that ultra foamy melts it on contact. magic. new ultra foamy magic eraser.

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thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these truly extraordinary times. we are grateful. "the beat with ari melber" starts right now. >> hi, nicolle. i am ari melber and the doctor is in. anthony fauci is here with me tonight. this is a relatively rare interview these days on the lessons learned