very quickly before we go, we're following breaking news out of louisiana where jeff landry just planned a bill into law requiring every public classroom in that state to display the ten commandments and quote large and easily read anl font. louisiana is the only state with this mandate and there will be

lawsuits. that is going to do it for me. "deadline: white house" starts right now. hi there, everyone. happy wednesday and happy juneteenth, it is 4:00 in the heeft. there might be only one thing more alarming than what has become near medieval siege on ow country's tradition of respect for the rule of law. and it is the fact that many americans regrettably but understandably have after all of these years of trump and his allies attacking it, grown numb to it or view it as a new norm. maybe it is an act of self-preservation or tune it out when trump or a voice on conservative media spits out such venom toward the men and women of doj or the fbi. but the temptation to register the lies being told about the justice system, about the fbi, simply is white noise or politics as usual.

in our view it represents as grave of a threat to democracy as the lies being told themselves. as an example, considered what the disgrayed ex-president told the crowd in wisconsin on tuesday. >> the outrageous charges in new york were a result of crooked joe biden and his group and they weaponized, they weaponized the department of justice. they weaponized all of the white house. >> no, they didn't. trump committed a crime and the people who helped him do so, some of them went to jail and some ever them received immunity and they testified and a jury of his peers convicted him. he's held accountable by a local prosecutor who worked independently of the department of justice. full stop. but for you or i might just dismiss this as a campaign speech, maga disinfo, riling up the base and just that, trump supporters hear those words and accept them as fact and with january 6 as an example, are

open to acting violently. it is how trump and his allies are today priming trump's supporters for what will be nothing less than a hostile takeover of the department of justice should trump prevail in november. turning around the very streets used to keep trump in check into political weapons. and don't take our word for it. they're saying it out loud. trump allies and fellow convict steve bannon has been open about the plan to prosecutor high ranking doj officials. people like attorney general merrick garland, out of what we described as retribution. what it comes to unfounded attacks against the people serving at the top of the department of justice, steve bannon's warmongering is more like chapter 10 in the year's long saga on this front. one could easily argue that chapter one started during the obama presidency. if you forgot what fast and

furious is outside of the motion picture franchise, that you avoided or forgot about that period in american history. to jog your memory, operation fast and furious was an ill-fated gun tracing program related to dangerous mexican drug cartels. the operation went wrong when the u.s. border patrol agent was tragically killed. two guns from the operation were found at the scene. attorney general at the time eric holder provided lawmakers with thousands of pages ever documents only to become the first ever sitting cabinet official in our country's history to ever be held in contempt of congress. then a investigation found zero evidence that a.g. holder or any of doj top leaders knew of or sought to cover up the depth of the scandal. but the damage had been done. the train has left the station as they say. a concerted break down of trust between conservatives and right-wing media and our

institutions, especially the department of justice, was set in motion. the end result all of these years later, convicted felon and presumption party nominee running openly on going to war with the department of justice on day one if he prevails in november. it is through this wider lens, this longer view of modern political history that we examine trumps attacks on the rule of law. joining our conversation, eric holder is here. thank you so much for making time for us today. >> thank you for having me, nicolle. didn't want to review fast and furious, but that is probably a good place to start this conversation. >> well, and i read about it myself. i've never said this on tv, but i first read, when i had written a novel and chris wallace was a friend of mine and invited me to come on the program and to mention the book and he said we're talking about fast and furious. and i said what is that.

and he said read in, our audience is fired up about it and i regular googling and reading it, it's an example as any of the injection of politics, pulling the levers of congressional allies to do something that had never been done before and then softening the tear rain with conservative media and activists. and i wonder what you make of what trump is promising to do in a second term to the department that you once led. >> yeah, to a department that i once led and that i love dearly. i spent nearly 20 years of my career at the justice department starting off as just a line lawyer in the justice department. coming straight out of law school and there is a tradition in the department that regardless of who is in charge politically. the department uses its power in an a-political way. and i'm concerned about what the former president said he's going to do, steve bannon said what he's going to do.

and i take them at their word. and i think they've learned from the first term. they will appoint a complaint attorney general, but beyond that, they now understand that they'll have a complaint deputy attorney general, they will have complaint united states attorneys and they will give these complaint u.s. attorneys hiring power so they could appoint a complaint assistant united states attorneys and they will do the things that they have said that they're going to do. open investigations against political opponents, use the law in ways that is inconsistent with the neutral way in which the justice department is supposed to operate. this is something that should be, i think, a prime campaign issue. we're talking about the rule of law in this country. and can really serves as the basis, the foundation for all that we hold near and dear in america. >> it is the area where trump's current advisers have spent the most time and energy on the architecture of dismantling and reassembling as a political

weapon. and one of the things that i know from my time in government is that other than the military, the people, people like yourself who served in the department of justice, have zero appetite for politics. and i agree with you. this should be a front, a first, second, third issue for the voters, but how do you bridge that gap between a department where the very essence of pushing back against trumpism is to not be political. but the most effective way to reject what trump wants to do to department is a political solution. of not voting for him. how do you bridge that gap? >> yeah, i don't think there is a gap. i mean, to say that you're for a neutral justice department, that you are for a democracy, that you are for the rule of law, those to me seem to be apolitical things. that could be injected into the political sphere, saying we'll have one candidate that will stand for those apolitical

pro-democracy measures and on the the other side a candidate who is bound and determined to subvert the system to his will so his supporters and himself are not subject to the rules in the way that other american citizens are. you know, i think that people who oppose the former president have got to kind of get over it and understand that the battle on which we are now operating, the terrain, the normal rules don't apply. and it means that we're going to have to be more up front, we're going to have to be more forceful. it doesn't mean we have to duplicate that which they say they're going to do or use the tactics, but being just more forceful, more open about the dangers. fear is a big motivator. in 2008, barack obama used hope and faith to galvanize people.

i think that fear used appropriately is something that can be employed here. because the fear is -- of losing our democracy. the fear is of losing our freedoms. the fear is losing our ability, women's ability to make reproductive decisions. that is a fear that i think should be legitimately used by those who pro oppose the former president. he's using illegitimate fears to try to galvanize his supporters. >> i couldn't agree with you more. i think that is the frame around which the campaign must be waged. and i think liz cheney said we could go back to having policy fights after the threat of trump has abated. i wonder where you -- where you would sort of put all of the revelations, i mean, the thing that is different this time around, we were so dependent on the investigate journalists in '16 to break stories about trump's trespasses, and it is

now all on a website. it is all spilling out ever his mouth somewhat incoherently. how do you break through to people who aren't paying attention or look at it as both sides do it. how do you jolt people into understanding the threat that he poses to our democracy? >> well you know, i think that we have to use tangible examples. and it means that if it doesn't break through the first time or the second time or the third time, you say it a fourth time and tangible examples and make people in the most digestible way possible familiar with the charges in the pending cases and make people familiar with the results of the case that was tried in new york city. when it comes to reproductive rights as you've done on this show, i think very compellingly, have woman come on and tell their stories. have people come on and talk about how it is more difficult to vote in certain parts of the country.

again, having real people talk about how the things that they have done and will do will have an impact on their lives. contextualize this in a way that makes it reel for the american voter. >> one of the places that i think people in my line of work have fallen down is the assault on voting rights. historically, it is been predicated on all sorts of ugly things. in the last four years, it is been predicated on a lie. something bill barr called bullshit, just to quote bill barr. how do you see the voter suppression legislation enacted at the state level even by republicans who push back and in georgia, the voters suppression law is so odious to major league baseball that they moved the all-star game to another state and people just sort of shrug and it is what had to be even though the republican governor said there was no fraud there. how do we, one, do a better job

and two, stop that erosion of voting rights? >> yeah, i mean, that one -- that is a jeanne that is out of the bottle and hard to get back. at least that first part. there is this feeling that there is widespread voter fraud. there is a fear that substantial numbers of people who shouldn't have the ability to vote are in fact voting. that voting is miscounted in a way that favors one party or the other. that has to be pushed back with statistical evidence and people tanding up and saying that is is not true. the brennan center has done great work in that regard. these are things that are not necessarily as attractive as the lies but it means there has to be discipline on the side of those people standing for democracy and then pushing it out there again and again and again. and reassuring the american people that our system works

well in the way in which it is presently constituted. we at the districting committee that i head up, we got 5,000 poll workers for -- recruited 5,000 poll workers for the 2020 election and we're going to try to double that for the election in 2024. all in an attempt to get republicans, democrats, independents, conservatives, progressives engaged in our civic system. so it is going to take examples like that, efforts like that, message discipline, there the way that i have described. it is going to be hard. but i think it can ultimately be done. and again, that fear notion, if you don't vote, if you don't trust in the system, you are leading this nation down an authoritarian path from which we might never recover. that has to be a component of the message. >> what do you make of the sort of silence among the business

community? we've been trying to cover this question of autocracy in america, the idea that it could happen here. six months ago it seemed farfetched. now everyone is keyed into the possibility. people like yourself who watch it closely and at a policy level and know all of the metrics and what is ticking up. understood at an intuitive level. but even amid the public who are consuming news understand. but what do you make their indifference in america turning into something that more closely resembles or -- >> it is interesting, i think the business community, i see it in two ways. one, there are those who think that the election is trump is going to do something positive for them financially. either personally, financially, or they're companies are going to benefit from -- a trump presidency. that is one. there is another part of the business community, and i think it is probably the majority, who

don't want to get involved in political things at all. and they stay silent. they don't understand necessarily the power that they have in -- that i think should be used in defense of democracy. and don't understand, that if you give trump this power, he then has the ability to pick winners and loser in the economic sphere and he'll decide or his justice department will decide who gets prosecuted for what kinds of crimes, what mergers go through, what mergers are opposed by the anti-trust division. the rule of law and the neutrality of the justice department is something that ought to matter to the business community. again, there are going to be those who are going to make a real bargain with the devil with the hope that -- with the thought that they're going to do better economically. and that is a hell of a price to pay for our democracy. to put your economic advantage above that which has defined this nation at its best. >> it is an amazing failure of

imagination. i mean, we've now -- we know trump, we've watched him, some ceo's daughter could tweet an unflattered picket and he could decide to sabotage a company's stock price. on year nine, this is an important part of the country that shouldn't stay sile enlt. i want you to ask you about the supreme court and how you're thinking about this period where we're waiting for the extraordinary, for something that people told us we wouldn't have to worry about, we're waiting for the supreme court's opinion on immunity and trump has argued before the supreme court and based on the questions has some receptive audience members to the idea that a president should be immune from prosecution. how are you thinking about this period and do you have any predictions? >> well, i have to tell you this, anything less than a decision by the supreme court that said a president should be held to the laws just like any other american citizen should be, anything other than that is absurd. the notion for instance that apparently some justices are fooling around with it. well if the president violated

the criminal law but in his official capacity, there may be some basis to say that is okay. we need to step back and think about that. you know, wait a minute. a president can violate the american criminal law if he or she is doing something in their official capacity? that is an absurd and dangerous conclusion. and i'm worried, given the length of time, that it is taken for the supreme court to decide this case, that something along those lines might come out of the supreme court. you know, the federal appellate court gave that argument short trip and wrote, i think, a very compelling opinion. it is hard for me to understand why the court even took this case. and i'm worried when justice kavanaugh said we have to write for the ages. no, you don't. you need to decide the case just in front of you on the basis of the facts and the law presented to you and if you do that, you'll reach the same conclusion as the appellate court. that a president needs to be held accountable in the same way

that any other american would be. any result other than that is -- is i think both absurd and extremely, extremely dangerous. >> i'm going to stick a pin in this and ask you to come back when we have an opinion from them. i cannot let you go without -- i don't know if i could read your tweet about willie mays without crying. he meant so much to -- i'm a little league mom and willie mays is everything to my son. he meant so much to you. and i want to read this. you tweeted i'm heartbroken by the news that willie mays has passed away. [ inaudible ] many times you meet your heroes and are disappointed by the koents you are, such was not the case with mr. mays. he was as warm anden ganging when we met as i could have hoped. in the video i'm placing my hands on his shoer shoulders as i explain i stood on those shoulders and told him that his sacrifices and accomplishments

made my life possible. he teared up. he's the greatest baseball player of all time. that is clear. but in his way he was the epity me of grace and class. may he rest in earned peace. so beautiful. say more about willie mays. >> you know, as a young guy growing up in new york, even talking about it, i get a little emotional about this. but as a young kid growing up in queens new york, he was my first athletic hero. i used to look at "the new york times" every sunday, they would list out all of the ball players, the american league and the national league and who had the highest batting average and i would look down to see where was willie mays. how many home runs did he have, how many rbis. the way he carried himself as a black man and the things he to endure in order to succeed. the class that he always showed and his unbelievable abilities.

he was to me, it brings me back to what i think in some ways for me a simpler time. brings me back to my dad, to those times in queens. he was a great ball player, but he was also just a great man and i had the ability to meet -- to see and meet my first athletic hero. and as i said in the tweet, i was not disappointed. he was as gracious and kind, and as humble as you might ever want your hero to be. he was a great man. he's the best ball player ever all time. about that there is no doubt. >> no debate. >> but i want people to understand that he was truly, truly a great, a great anden dearing man. i'm going to miss him. i'm just going to totally miss him. >> i loved your -- i loved your tweet and what it evoked for you, the simpler time. his life wasn't always simple

and that is captured in his humility and his grace. you captures it right there. thank you. eric holder, we've already tried to ensnare you in another appearance when we have this opinion. we hope to see you again very soon. thank you for all of your time today. >> i promise i'll come back after that decision. would you like to talk about it. >> we look forward to it. consider it a date. thank you so much. sir. >> thanks for having me. when we come back, it turns out donald trump was never actually good at business. he was never a mogul at all. he just played one on tv. we are making a mess of donald trump and what it will reveal about the ex president's state of mind right now to the rint viewer. plus two of the world's most notorious dictators deepen their ties to one another raising alarm bells in the u.s. and across the western world. we'll talk about what putin and kim jong-un's meeting means to the u.s. as we head into a

presidential election with the standing in the world on the line. and later in the broadcast, stunning new audio reveals what team trump has in store already for the 2024 election and beyond. a plan that involved armies of lawyers aiming to gum up the works of our democracy. all of those stories and more when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. with all the money i saved i thought i'd buy stilts. hi honey. ahhh...ooh. look, no line at the hot dog stand. yes! only pay for what you need. ♪liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty.♪

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wasm and i'm having more fun than i ever had. >> brains, negotiating skills, and as his recent civil fraud trial revealed, a lot of creative accounting. that was donald trump in the pilot episode of the apprentice. bragging about being a self made business star. according to a new brook, apent is in wonder land, that image of a self-made business man was all smoke and mirrors from the start. it was a vehicle to get what he craves the most, attention. now the book was written, it was done through six interviews. and trump has been interviewed for this book more than at any other -- than any else since his post presidency. and the book said on the set trump was notable not as a business mind but as an insecure actor. he sulked when he wasn't the center of attention and he

leared at attractive women and hijacked the production with his inability to read a teleprompter and he didn't take direction and surrounded himself with a team tasked with making him look good. he wasn't interested in reading briefs about what happened that day. instead he was purely focused on maximizing his screen time. in the hunt for audience attention that trump discovered the formula that would take him to the white house. it became clear in our first post presidency meeting that there is no way to reasonably interview trump as a politician. he's not a politician. there is no way to ask him about governing. he's not able to govern. there is no point in trying to pin him down on his hopes for another term. he doesn't care about the specifics of the plot during his time in the white house. he just wants to get renewed for another season. wow, joining our conversation, co-editor in chief of the variety and author of the new

book "apprentice in wonderland", how they took america through the looking class is here with us. and also joining us, host of the on brand podcast donnie deutsche is here. congratulations. i followed your interviews. i'm reading the book. it is the most important analysis and set of interviews with trump that we have to work with and i just want to you say more about the interviews with him. >> thank you so much, nicolle. i went about reporting this book since 2021. i spent a lot of time with donald trump. we sat down together over the years. we did six interviews total. we spent time in trump tower. i went to mar-a-lago and visited him. and in the first interview, i did with him in, may of 2021, he was in trump tower, he was a deflated man and very unhappy about the fact he was no longer in the white house. and as we started talking about the apprentice, because this is about the key that made donald

trump, the mirage that was created by mark burnett, this image that donald trump was a splart and strong and thoughtful business leaders and we as we talking, during the early days of covid and donald trump was celebrating over the fact that in india people were dying and they were suffering and he was happy over the fact that in the -- it was catching up to the united states and people criticized him as president for not doing enough during covid and now that people were dying in india, he felt good because their numbers were bad and it was proof to him he had done good during covid and that was very alarming during our interview and there were so much during our conversation. this peels back the conversation on what donald trump is and his state ever mind and what he's thinking and what he wants to do if he returns to the white house. >> i mean, he slips. you talk about it sort of a mask coming off moment and told you that he lost. >> he does. in one of our conversations we were watching, a clip of the

apprentice and i showed him a clip of geraldo rivera who was a contestant and he got worked up over their falling out and the feud that they had and said when i lost the election, and that was a really revealing moment to me and proved something i'd been thinking about, is donald trump is playing a character, he's a reality show character that projected a image that people want to see and truthfully if we were able to get inside of his head and find the truth, woe admit that he lost the election because he said it to me. >> you also track during your six conversations, some interesting things about his ability to recall talking to you. those six times. p tell us about that. >> so between our first and second conversation which was only months apart, he spent a significant time with me in trump tower that first day. he had a great time. he told jason miller one of his adviser who was in the meeting

how much he appreciated to talk to me and how happy it made him to talk about the apresent is and when i returned, he had no recollection and he had a blank expression on his face and seemed confuse and we started from square one and he told me statement stories over again. he can't remember what he had said, what he had not said. but more broadly, it was interesting because i think he remembered things that happened 20 years ago, a lot more clearly than things that happened more recently. ee very confused by the chronology of the events and his time in the white house was blurry. one thing that he couldn't remember was the day nbc called him and told him that he would never again host the apprentice. this is in the early days of the campaign when he made disparaging comments about immigrants from mexico and racist comments on the campaign trail and nbc finally separated themselves from him and he had no memory of that. he said, well, it is all about ratings. you could be the worst person in the world and still get ratings. so he thought in his head that he could go back on tv.

and he also thought the reason nbc covers him so critically is that they're very upset that he's no longer host of the apprentice. >> you talk about the cats that is a myth buster, and say more. >> there was a quality, as the editor i spent a lot of time interviewing actors and it felt like a actor who had no longer been roles or cast or calls an this is shortly after he left the white house. there was issues of trump magazine publication that no longer comes out. there were -- there was not very many people around him. he had questions, a lot of questions about who was loyal. who was not loyal. but he was looking back. there was no forward momentum in the person of donald trump. there was no reflection about the incredible power he had as president and the incredible legacy that one would have as president of the united states. it was all about vendettas and

feuds and how people wronged him. >> i mean, it is so -- it is so important, i i'm going to ask you to stick around through break. i want to bring donnie deutsche on this. we have to sneak in a break and ask you to stick around. we'll all be right back. >> thank you very much. ht back. >> thank you very much start your day with nature made. the #1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand. so this is pickleball? it's basically tennis for babies, but for adults. it should be called wiffle tennis. pickle! yeah, aw! whoo! ♪♪ these guys are intense. we got nothing to worry about. with e*trade from morgan stanley, we're ready for whatever gets served up. dude, you gotta work on your trash talk. i'd rather work on saving for retirement. or college, since you like to get schooled. that's a pretty good burn, right? got him. good game. thanks for coming to our clinic, first one's free.

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voters. >> trump doesn't remember who the author was but still talked to him for ten hours. >> he loved talking about himself so much he made time to do a interview about the book of the apprentice. if you pitched him a reality show wheret picks the vice president for apprentice style. for the right amount of money, he would 100% do it. >> and donnie is back with us. and -- i can attest to his caliber as a journalist who gets all of his sources to talk. but trump has become a punchline for -- i feel like i watch that and i picture trump somewhere in trump tower still talking like ramin is still sitting there. is what you've been talking about for nine years. he hates to be laughed at and here we go. >> first of all, true confessions and i have to live with this, they did three seasons of the apprentice.

they did casts so we were on the apprentice and the deutsche advertiser and i remember trump walking through the office and he was looking just looking at women when he was walking through the office. and i guess i'm listening to everything he said, congratulations, and i'm bringing it back to your eric holder segment and what is wrong with us that this man that half of this country, if you just watch 25 minutes of the show, would you go, this is a -- this is a despicable human being. forget anything else. and yet somehow, somehow large swaths of this country is okay with it. what does it say about us. i'm running out of things to denigrate donald trump. and you could just talk for nine hours and i'm not even going to list it. and i'm just, what is wrong with us. what is wrong with us, nicolle. how did we get here.

i know i'm drifting off, i'm getting working up as i'm listening to. >> i love it. i love it. >> it is just a little slice of structure in a decent and both of us know smart and educated people that are thumbs up with this. and what the hell happened to us. >> i mean, i think it is the right question. ramin, i'll let you try to answer it. to me, he's laughing all the way to the next campaign rally. because you make clear that even in his own mind, he's playing a role. >> this is the convergence, i think, between what happened in our culture where politics and celebrity have come together. and it happened, i think, beginning with president obama, people called him kind of a movie star president even though he wasn't. ronald reagan was from hollywood and sarah palin, and donald

trump was first reality tv president and there is so much information out there, people are tuning things out and not educating themselves and paying attention and just like this character that he played on the apent is and the way that we could ensure that donald trump is not re-elected is by studying his -- the way in which he operates. i studying what he does and how he manipulates the media and confuses people and the crazy things he said which people find funny. this is a serious time. there is a very important decision in november and i think we -- the democrats into he had to focus on the facts that donald trump is a reality star. that is the only way in which they'll defeat him in november. >> i mean, donnie, i don't want to give short trip to your point and your question, because the other 22 hours of the day, right. i think, though, the great news is here we go. right. here we go to the point where people other than us start paying attention to politics. i think it is our obligation and our duty to tell the story every

day in an election year, non-election year. but it is a voters job to pay attention and in as much time they think to make an informed choice in november. so that is, for the most earnest voters, that hasn't even started yet. maybe it will start next thursday. and i want to try to answer your question without spinning you, which used to be my old job. think ramin's book is a really serious and important piece of the story that i hope voters have. and it is not coming from a political actor. it is not coming from a political journalist. it is coming from someone in trump's world who he sat with for six times for hours and hours and i do have this mental image of him. and i'll give you the last word. i imagine -- i imagine donnie, that this is trump's worst nightmare, that seth and jimmy and jimmy are laughing at him. >> it is. and also, donnie, he mentioned

you. he remembered you. he's upset that when you talk about him, you don't speak about him in glowing terms. he's upset that deborah messing and bette midler doesn't like him and taylor swift doesn't like him. celebrities don't like him and this is the weapon in which the democrats needed to understand. he is driven by fame and wanted to be famous and the only way to defeat him is to channel the force against him. >> donnie, what does that look like over the next five months? >> i think you just said it best. i think starting with next thursday and it is on the voters. nicolle, you do your job and ramin, i can't wait to read that book. it sounds fantastic. and shame on us if we don't get this one right. because if we don't 2k3we9 this one right, we are not get another shot. it is that dire. i say to people, you have to vote and it might be the last one that counts and that is not

an overstatement. that is a absolute fate accompli. >> but there is a chance we might not get it right. because that is what is so scary. >> a real chance. >> a real chance we might not get it right and in donald trump in our last interview at mar-a-lago in november when we were face-to-face and there was so many things happening in his life and his son was testifying in new york city. weighs thrilled that he was back in the news. his polls were good. and he had a chance to become president of the united states. and that was very alarming for me. >> you know what we're going to do. we will -- we will deal with the six interviews in six subsequent conversations. because i -- again, you've had the most access to him out of anyone i had on the show. i don't know anyone -- and i may be wrong, but i have to check, but i don't know anyone who sat with him six times since he lost. so why don't we do that together. donnie. you and me and ramin. we'll make it wednesdays with donnie and ramin and go through all six of these conversation and do our part to make sure

people know at least what you learned from him in these sound like very expansive conversations. ramin, congratulations. i know firsthand how good you are at your job. congratulations on this. donnie, we have a lot of work to do, but we're going to do our part. and my thanks to both of you for this conversation. >> thank you, nicolle. ramin's book is called "apprentice in wonderland", it is out right now and i ordered it on amazon this morning. you don't want to miss it. after the break, two key members of a global access of autocracy deepening their ties to one another. we'll talk about what that means for us in the u.s., next. n the t

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ask your doctor about hormone-free veozah... ...and enjoy more not flashes. you could save on veozah. visit saveonveozah.com to learn more. in a move raising alarm bells here at home in the u.s., among national security experts, two of the presumptive republican presidential nominees favorite dictators, vladimir putin and kim jong-un joined forces today in north korea. they signed a mutual defense pledge vowing to come to one another's aid in the event of aggression. the pact paves the way for north korea to send more weapons to moscow to aid russia in its illegal war of ukraine. according to reporting by nbc news, the biden administration is worries that this intensifying alliance could quote, vastly expand pyongyang's nuclear capablity.

ann applebaum is with us. and we had courtney on yesterday having concerns among u.s. intelligence officials, i imagine the concerns are being echoed around the world. tell me how you view this intensifying alliance. >> so you have to look at it as part of the bigger story and realize it is not just putin and -- i'm sorry not just putin and kim, it is putin and kim and xi. north korea has a intense conversation withlong-term relationship with china. this agreement couldn't have happened without china's knowledge. you're see a network of autocracies. i was listening to your last segment on donald trump. some of this is happening precisely because the united states is in a weaker position

than it once was, it might elect somebody irresponsible to the presidency. there are attempts by both russia, china and others to intervene in our election, to shape the narrative and shape of conversation, perhaps even to launch some october surprise, some kind of trick or game that will throw the election one way or the other. i think this is -- though this is something happening abroad, i think it has an important domestic context as wet. >> anne, how did they view people that are sort of watching the next election. what is sort of the degree of interest and concern? >> if you mean u.s. allyallies, there's trial concern. i was speaking with colleagues in europe, it was late at night their time. i'm in washington now. they were sitting around talking

about what happens going to happen next, and they called me to say, who is going to win? what were the polls looking like. >> that's because the decision about who america chooses next will affect all kinds of political alliances and arrangement. a trump victory will encourage the putin/xi/kim, venezuelan alliance. a abuen victory will mean the united states is still the leader of the democratic world. and, of course, nobody else has a vote except americans, and that's frustrating. it's still too close. i couldn't tell them who will win. it's a frustrating moments for u.s. allies.

>> i want to ask you about that, the closeness of this, the kind of crazy you get. we need to sneak in a quick break. can we ask you to stick around? >> sure. we'll be right back. ou to sd >> sure. we'll be right back. so i hired body doubles. mountain climbing tina at a cabin. or tree climbing tina at a beach resort. nice! booking.com booking.yeah. ( ♪♪ ) luke's mom: without easterseals, my luke would be a very different luke. look up. where you going? luke's mom: there's an incredible urgency to get your child into services, because the longer you wait, these motor pathways are set in stone. i knew he needed help. he needed these services. i'm almost there. yes, you are. you're so close. you're so strong. i'm gonna say hi. okay! let's say hi. hi! nolan's mom: none of my friends or people in our network have a child with these needs. and then you go to easterseals and it's such a good feeling to feel like you're in good hands. they really understand what you're going through. jaxon: at one point,

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this one-of-a-kind t-shirt with our heartfelt thanks. to reach into your heart and see what your donation can do for these kids. it really does make a difference. you're helping kids believe in themselves. go online, call or scan now to change a child's life forever. we're back with anne applebaum. i wonder what you say when people ask about americans' disinterest, the susceptible to

disinformation. how do you explain what's going on here? it's not that hard to explain, giving the propaganda we see now exists pretty much everywhere. how traditional societies have been undermined, and so on. and democracy by crass is kay on the -- and we see that kind of language in the u.s. you also see it in europe. some of it is directly -- they create fake profiles. they have more sophisticated ways of doing it now. they see it from coming inside

their own society. the decline of the you see that so clearly. anne applebaum, thank you for your time. >> a key trump ally was caught on tape saying it's on an offensive footing, with plans to incorrect chaos. we'll bring you that story next. don't go anywhere. g you that st. don't go anywhere. hi, i'm janice, and i lost 172 pounds on golo. when i was a teenager i had some severe trauma in my life and i turned to food for comfort.

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we're working on it. lawyers, technology. >> governors? >> some. we're going to use every lever we can.

his, again, everyone. it's 5:00 in the east. lawyers, judges, technology, those are three words that encapsulate how donald trump and his team plan to steal the next presidential election. the man you heard on state, in his own words, is trump alou and pardoned criminal roger stone. he was speaking at a catholic event in mar-a-lago, where he was the key -- he thought he was talking to a fan, but actually speaking to the progressive, she's the same won who got comments from sam alito. listen to the conversation with

lauren windsor's colleague, posing as a fan of stone's earlier in the night. a fan of ss earlier in the night >> but at least this time, you have a lawyer and a judge on a phone number to stop him. we had no cooperate last time. those are steps we have to take, but --

what windsor and her colleague uncovered here is a plan that's already in place by trump's key lieutenant, to use judges and their home phone numbers and the legal system to get the election result they want. it's the politicization of the world of law and undermining of american democracy. it happens while the highest court in the land is still deciding whether a president has full immunity, a decision that could come as soon as tomorrow. stone response was -- all of the election integrity i suggested are perfectly legal.

there was another part of his conversation. he spoke about the many criminal trials that the ex-president currently faces, and talked about tactics to delay those, a majority which have been success 68 so far are vital politically. watch. y. watch.

you see? that's where we start today with executive producer and creator of "the undercurrent." lauren windsor is with us. thank you for being here. i want to get into how you do what you do, how you personally deal with -- i saw some of the threats roger stone made against you to sue you today, but i want to start with what you have revealed. i want to thank you for your revealing about institutions and organizations and people that are, at best, opaque to the public and the american people. tell me about this conversation that you and your colleague had with roger stone. >> thanks for having me, nicolle. this wasn't the first conversation i had with roger stone. i spoke with him last summer at an event for florida teenage

republicans. the goal of talking to him was really to understand what was afoot with the 2024 election. so the initial question i asked him was, you know, how are you going to keep democrats from stealing the election again? what he told me last summer is, we have a plan, it's legal, it's technical, the rnc should have done it last time. so because in that particular circumstance, i couldn't really have an extended conversation with him, i wanted to see if i could get more information on that. so ali and i went to mar-a-lago in march for this catholics event and try to get more information, and that was the genesis of this tape. >> is it hard to get into an event like that? >> well, we bought tickets. we walked in. they checked our names when we came in the door, so you have to

pay the fee. i forget exactly how much that cost. i believe it was $500. >> tell me about this -- what you heard when he talked about having judges' home phone numbers. well, so that was a conversation with ali, but when i heard the audio from that conversation, it was definitely alarming, because to me -- roger stone, you know, pretty much embraces his reputation as a dirty tricks terr, the dapper don of dirty deeds, right? so, when he says he's innocent in this, innocent preparation for 2024, should we take him at his word? he's the dapper don of dirty deeds, a convicted felon, he's discussed assassinating members of congress, which he's

currently under investigation for -- or i should say has been under investigation for. i don't know the status of that investigation. it was alarming to me to hear that he might have phone numbers of judges. it really led me to wonder who is he reaching out to? is he reaching out to judges about ballot integrity? voter fraud? is he reaching out to judges who are connected to any of the cases against donald trump? i don't know. i just think that they are questions worth asking. >> yeah. i mean, the last piece of tape we played is roger stone's view on the success of the delay strategy. how did you hear that? >> well, it was clear to me, because the first thing that he went to, when he said we're beating them right now, ali says, how so? he's not saying we're beating

democrats in the polls, we are beating them in voter registrations, we're beating them in any number of voter outreach metrics. he goes directly to the status of the cases, so to me that says the courts are a focal so point for their strategy. he didn't say anything about positive voter outreach and organizing. >> what sort of -- i mean, you obviously are filling in a huge space. this is a blind spot. those of us covering the race has no idea what roger stone says to who he thinking are allies in the trenches with them. tell me how you decide to try to pursue the unburnished truth from? >> for me, first and foremost, for any operation that's undercover -- because i do employ other methodologies. i have doling online research,

produced the website, for example. i have bird dogged members of congress on the hill, around -- when i say bird dogging, i mean showing up with a microphone and a camera. it's a pretty transparent process. i am a member of the press, asking you directly a question to your face. but i feel like there has to be a reason i'm going undercover that i normally wouldn't. if you're planning to overturn an election, that -- you know, most people will not openly talk about that. so, if you look at my career since 2012, when i launched "the undercurrent" with the young turks network, i've had some undercover work in there, but it didn't become a substantive part of my work until after 2020 with

the georgia runoffs. i went to georgia for these two historic runoffs. all of the events i went to, i could see the surrogates that were in the state stumping for kelly loeffler, and they were still talking about for trump -- i guess it is a quest, a crusade to make scherr we don't have a replication of january 6th. i really see january 6th as an on-par event of 9/11. i witnessed 9/11 on the ground. it was deeply political form 'tiff in moving me to be more politically engaged. so when john wear 6th happened, i felt obligated as a patriot

out of love for this country to make sure we could maintain the tradition of secular democracy. >> i also find there's a chicken and egg piece to the importance of your work. we have lifted it you have every time we've seen it. trump branded the press the enemy of the people and therefore one of the tactics that i think became necessary was being viewed as one of them to obtain this information. if there was a press corps that could revealed what you revealed about alito, i would be the happiest cable host on the planet. sadly, there isn't. i want to put in the public what you recorded and ask you about this. you recorded and ask you about this

one of the nine human beings that sits on the supreme court thinking you can't split the difference, that we can't really live side by side. that's un-bleeping believable. we know that. you have chief justice john roberts on tape. he doesn't say anything scandalous at all. it's an alito problem. tell me about your feelings about what you reveal about justice alito. >> i should put it out there for the record.

i never thought going into this i would be able to get something newsworthy from sam alito. the discretion level of the justices, this is one of the, you know, highest held positions. i mean, he's not the chief justice, but as a sitting justice, i would imagine he would be the height of discretion, particularly as he's come under attack for the political flag waving in his yard. you would think his guard would be up more. i didn't go in thinking i'm going to get him. particular when i spoke with him in 2023, he gave an answer that wasn't nutworthy. i didn't publish in, but i thought during the pending year, his might be more aggrieved, and the pro publica article had not

come out yet. so, i thought if i approach this from a religious and moral standpoint, and it's not biden or trump or democrats or republicans, but it's really about a religious lens, a moral lens, he would be more prone to giving me a response that would be different, by more substantive. he could have very well answered how he did in 2023. he had that capability, but he didn't. he could have answered how justice roberts answered, he didn't do that, either. so for people who say this is a nothing burger, or he was agreeing to placate you, i don't understand that, because the prior year he gave a totally different answer. >> i agree with your analysis of this. i want to play mrs. alito as well. this, to me, was i think editorially even more newsworthy.

the homophobia, and the deferring to her husband on the flags, just felt like news whoppers. tell me how you heard that? >> in the moment, it was pretty shocking. she was pretty emphatic about shaming her neighbors, which to me is certainly not a very christian outlook to have.

so, aside from the fact she's the wife of a supreme court justice who, again, was under an immense amount of scrutiny for those actions, so, yeah, i was shocked by that. >> she seems to say she doesn't do what she wants on the flag front. in her words, she said she deferred to him, that's her husband, right? >> yes. she went further to say that, when he's done with this nonsense, i'll fly whatever flag i want, which she's referring to nonsense of the supreme court. i think that's obviously pretty galling and shocking in its own right. lauren windsor, i'm going to ask you to stick around. i have more questions. when we come back, we'll be joined by andrew wiseman, and what could bes, as roger stone said, an attempt to dismiss the mar-a-lago documents case

entirely. also, ahead, today is juneteenth. president joe biden made it a federal holiday three years ago, but today, right now, as we convene, black history remains under attack in red states all across the country. we'll check in with a refired educator, with his part to make sure black american history is never forgotten. don't go anywhere today. n histos never forgotten. don't go anywhere today. re ener. -ugh. -here, i'll take that. woo hoo! ensure max protein, 30 grams protein, 1 gram sugar, 25 vitamins and minerals. and a new fiber blend with a prebiotic. (♪♪) ♪ you need t-mobile... ♪ ♪ home internet with 5g. ♪ wait! t-mobile has home internet? ♪ what a feeling! ♪ ♪ to have t-mobile now! ♪ ( ♪ ♪ )

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i played it twice. i think i understand, roger stone. on friday, judge cannon will hear a motion brought by the ex-president that jack smith's appointment was unlawful to begin with.

it's sort of -- judge cannon has entertained other motions and requests from the ex-president she'll hear next week. as she continues to prolong the process, keep in mind what you heard roger stone thinking of it, that she is, quote -- roger stone's words -- on the verge of dismissing the charges. end quote. we're back with lauren wind son and andrew weissmann is also with us. to the degree that what it looks like from the outside is what's being experienced inside trump world, it does feel like there's some connectivity. how do you see this? >> well, it lets -- first let's

remind people that roger stone, leaving aside his story of sort of gamesmanship in terms of how he helps political candidates, leave all of that aside. he went to trial and was convicted of multiple felonies by a jury beyond a reasonable doubt. if you take that to what he's saying, in terms of denigrating the effort of various prosecutors here, the reason it's useful to think about who he is and the fact he went to trial is, he knows something that he is not saying which is facts matter. the reason that he was convicted is because facts were --

prosecutors -- i don't know. that they actually had the goods. um, if donald trump wanted to show that this was all a witch-hunt, he could go to trial. you can't expire what he is saying is going on to what happened until his own presidency, which was john durham. so we have seen a sort of trump prosecutor, who brings cases where there's unanimous verdicts of acquittals by a jury, and cases where they're unanimous verdicts of guilt. that's because facts matter. when roger stone is saying this is all gamesmanship, they're interesting adjectives, adverbs,

but it ignores the fact that facts matter. it happens in court, and roger stone knows it. he was accorded all of the rights of a defendant, and lost. >> andrew, do we view it as an utter ran from earth 1 or earth 2, that he has judges' home phone number this time around? >> i have to say, that was the piece that was the most chilling for me, because with roger stone, you don't know how much is bluster, and how much is not. the fact that he is even speaking for donald trump speaking volumes. i mean, he is a convicted felon, and he shouldn't be in that position. any reputable candidate, you know -- assuming facts not in evidence, would not have him speaking for them. i have to say, if that is true, if that is not just his bluster,

that is something that, as you know, nicolle, from having talked to judges who have been threatened and subject to harassment and actual violence and covered a lot of that, the fact that there would be home phone numbers in the possession of someone like roger stone or his acolytes, will give law enforcement chills. and what has happened since you released this? >> i get threats of lawsuits,

and death threats to my phone line, to my website, dms via various social media sites. people are definitely threatening me, but my experience is most of it has been bluster, outside of the threats online -- i haven't experienced anything that was in person, but, you know, i don't put it past someone. so, it's in the back of my mind, for sure. >> andrew, i'm just sort of connecting all the dots of the conversations i've had today, and what lauren's illuminated about mr. and mrs. alito, when eric holder said it at the beginning of this program, when he pledged to come back after any immunity decision, that's where we are. we're all waiting to see when a decision comes down on immunity from the supreme court. we thought it might be last

thursday. it could be this thursday or next thursday, the day of the debate. the fact we're here is the scandal, the moment. talk about how we should view this moment in light of what we understand alito believes because of his candid comments to lauren, that you really can't fathom that we can reconcile our differences. >> well, i think one what i to back up and think about this is go back to a comment by liz cheney about the court systems. she was talking about the lower courts. she made the comment that they have held up well. when you think about the 16 judges and court cases where donald trump and his allying were saying there was fraud in the election, they lost all of those. so, that is really the last frontier. of course, if roger stone is planning on having legitimate

claims in court and seeking to do this through the court process and not through attacks on the capitol, that's how our system works. there's nothing wrong with that, but we are putting a lot of eggs in the basket of the good faith and the oaths of office of judicial officers. the connectivity is that we saw that working last time, but when you see judge cannon and what she is doing, when you see justice alito and what he is doing, there is ample reason to be concerned that that bulwark of democracy will not hold. there's so many reasons to think that this might makes right view of the law, means the antithey cal view of what the law is

supposed to be, that this is a nation of laws, not much men and women, is something that is precarious. when you see judges who, by all accounts, are not routinely adhering to their oaths of office. as you said, because we are in a place where we just should not be, that the idea that we're waiting for a decision that was so obvious and coop decided six months ago, when jack smith first raised the immunity decision to the supreme court of the united states. in many ways, we think there might be something good coming, but what has happened has already happened. we just don't fully understand it, where delay is everything. that's why there will not be a january 6th d.c. case, you know before the election in november.

>> lauren, i'll give you the last word. i want to come back to something you said about september 11th and january 6th, and how they sort of shaped you and raised your internal alarms. what institutions are you most worried about? is it the court? is it the trump-infected republican party? where is your greatest alarm personally? >> well, i do think the court is hugely at risk this election. if trump is elected again, i anticipate that justices alito and thomas will retire and it will really lock in this religious extremist majority for much longer than it could be otherwise. when you look at the transcripts, the video transcript with martha-ann alito, she references time horizons that seem to indicate

they're really eyeing justice alito's retirement. she talked about suing media companies because of five-year statute of limitations. she talked about, when you're done with this nonsense? because he is the ideological warrior that he is, i don't anticipate in the next five years he would step down if biden won. he would continue to hold that seat on the supreme court. it seems that they're anticipating a trump presidency. so, beyond just the ideological stakes with the supreme court for justice alito, there's also the personal stake of his own retirement. that to me is very worrisome, when we think about the cases, the immunity case being chief among them, that could possible throw the election to donald trump. >> so interest. lauren windsor and andrew weissmann, thank you for the conversation. we are so grateful. get your phones out. for more league news, we are

expecting decisions tomorrow. you can sign up right now for the del line legal news her. scan the qr code there, and you'll get a newsletter delivered every friday, and on any other days with big breaking legal news. when you come back on this day, juneteenth, the day that marks emancipation, african american history remains very much under assault in red states across our country. our friend, professor marvin dunn, is making sure that students learn about the history in his home state of florida. we'll be on a extort break. do go anywhere. on a extort brek do go anywhere don't go anywhere. don't go anywhere. omers get iphone 15 on us when they trade in any iphone. verizon

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this juneteenth, we celebrate as a nation the official end of slavery in the united states. it is the newest federal holiday, declared so three years ago by president joe biden. but in galveston, texas, they've been commemorating this days for more than a century and a half. it was there in 1865, when the last enslaved black people in the united states were told they were finally free, two years after the emancipation proclamation. it's a celebration of the hard-fought freedoms and rights and progress very much at stake, still, at a time when the teaches of american history, and

more are under constant assault. the nominee today made disparages comments about predominantly black cities, and stock exchange hatred and bigotry and division at every campaign stop. joining our coverage is marvin dunn, professor emeritus, all thor of the book of history of florida through black eyes. also, joins ugh, president of the leadership conference, maya wiley is here. marvin, thank you for coming back. you were one of our favorite voices in that coverage of florida. i wonder where your head is today, and where your thoughts are today, as we get ready. if there's a debate next thursday, to focus on a general election contest that seems at this point to be really taking place in the shadow of so much

disinformation. i wonder how you are looking at it. >> actually, i am focused on juneteenth right now. >> okay. >> because i don't see the point of it. i don't see the point of the celebration. i think emancipation is a myth. it doesn't change the lives of enslaved americans. if you were an enslaved person when the proclamation announced, if you were a slave in kentucky, even after the proclamation, you were still legally enslaved. same thing in missouri. the proclamation had no impact on the average enslaved person. the point i want to make, nicolle, emancipation without larch was meaningless. so what if you free the slaves? how do they take care of themselves? the great betrayal, the great betrayal was that black people who had been enslaved wanted land.

lincoln as the war was winding down, lincoln wanted to know with minute terse what they saided. he all spoke with the same vote. give us land we can farm and take care of ourselves, and we'll pay you back for it. what happened? a few got a few acres, and then andrew johnson stopped it, giving land back to the plantation owners. without land, black people were absolutely at a loss as to take care of themselves. i don't see the need to recognize the emancipation proclamation. it even then it doesn't make any difference that lincoln issued the proclamation. i'm underwhelmed by juneteenth. i'm more concerned about the great betrayal, that the black

men fought and died for the union, then went home and the land was given to their former owners. what a betrayal of black people in this country. i'm not having any great celebration. >> i think you're getting at a specific and a systemic indictment of the whole conversation, right? >> that's right. >> but at the root of it is something that's happening in cities and every state in this country. that's the desire to teach even less, right? part of it is awash of our own ignorance, mine included. >> that's right. >> the order part is the shallowness of it. how do we get at the roolt of both 6 those things? >> we do it by hitting the truth real hard. we do that by taking people -- whose ancestors were enslaved,

who lived through jim crow, we need to go back to history, where we lived through segregate, lynching, violence and have this current generation understand, it was hard to get to where we are today. the fact that we are still lookless, still poor compared to white people, goes back to the great betrayal, where we were not given land. i'm still back at that. but let's go forward for a white. you're right. i live in a state where oppression of the black history is criminal. what our governor has done, is doing, will continue to do, is destroying our history, by denying access to the truth for our students. not a lot of our teachers teach the truth. so, florida in determines of suppression of black history and

the whitewaring, florida is the leader in the country in that. >> when you try to get in front of people the stakes to not learning or history and the peril, and it's not equal peril, right? it's not the same danger for everybody. there's greater stakes for the people whose history is forgain, in your words, whitewashed. what is, in your experience -- you're teaching it so it isn't lost to the next generation. what gives you hope, if anything, in teaches this history? >> that's an excellent question. i've taken white and black kids, and their parents, all over florida, where troubled things happen. we have gone to graves, lynching sites. we stood over the graves of people who were killed. white and black people together. the thing that is so encouraging to me is that when i ask people over these graves, are you angry

at white people? are you angry at people today because of what happened a hundred years ago? nicolle, consistently i hear, no, we're not angry. we've angry because our history was kept from us. that's still happening. we are not being allowed to learn and teach or history in florida, and that's spreading across the country. >> i think it is incumbent upon the states -- why doesn't california make it part of the curriculum to take every tenth grader to a museum for a tour. it doesn't have an equal stakeholder. i want to continue to press both of you on learning our history. i have to sneak in a quick break, and then we'll bring in maka into the conversation. we'll be right back. g in maka into the conversation we'll be right back.

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we don't get to eat in the early morning. we just wait till we get to the school. so, yeah. right now here in america, millions of kids like victoria and andre live with hunger, and the need to help them has never been greater. when you join your friends, neighbors and me to support no kid hungry, you'll help hungry kids get the food they need. if we want to take care of our children, then we have to feed them. your gift of just $0.63 a day, only $19 a month at helpnokidhungry.org right now will help provide healthy meals and hope. we want our children to grow and thrive and to just not have to worry and face themselves with the struggles that we endure. nobody wants that for their children. like if these programs didn't exist me and aj, we wouldn't probably get lunch at all. please call or go online

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yeah, i just hope it stays this way. once word gets out about these places they tend to -- -are you done? -aaand there it is. well, at least your vehicles are protected. let's hit the road. hey fam! i'm just at this beautiful lake that i just discovered. practicing gratitude, manifesting abundance. we're back with maya. >> the one thing we know about this generation, gen z, they now how to be activists, whether it was black lives matter, to aports rights, this is an activist generation. i do want to go back to

something that professor dunn said. one of the things we're seeing removed, for example, from the ap history story that the college board created, was contemporary issues of activism. professor kimberly crenshaw, a well revered professor, removed because she was one of the proponents of critical race theories, which was the united states of racism and the present-day effects. removing issues about being black and queer and incarceration. we can't understand the present without united states the past. tons of money, leonard leo, who is the same person who helped create the list that would create a supreme court, that

would continue to erode the civil rights gangs, we as the people and the leadership conference coalition has been spent decades fighting for and, by the way, winning. this is exactly the same forces that had $106 billion to get the minority of the country to essentially try to whitewash white supremacy, wash out black history, take black books off the library book shelves, because knowledge and information is dangerous. we know, and thanks to president joe biden for making juneteenth a federal holiday, now 90% of people surveyed knows what juneteenth is, and what it represents. that's not enough, as the professor said, that's a heck of a lot more than three years ago.

the more we insist on our rights, the mo are we remined people of the history and the power we have brought to the polls, the ballot box, which we still have to fight for today, we will continue to see the forces try to dominate the majority. that is an issue for all of us. we can't have a plural democracy if we are seeing our people, including people who are white, indoctrinated about our past, present and our future. >> may i add -- >> go ahead. >> sorry. >> no, go ahead. >> i want to do circle about the danger of not teaching the truth. for example, our governor desantis does that want school kids to be taught that before florida became a state, while male heads of household were given 106 acres of land to farm

it. no black household heads got that. would wealth differences be as great as they are now? of course not. we need to teach that. we need people to understand why black people are more likely to be poor than white people. i keep going back to that. there was no freedom without land. >> maya, i was going to ask you quickly how we do both, right? it seems like swatting back the white supremacy that rears its head all the time, it feels like, almost every political news cycle, is sort of the shallow work that reminds me of whack-a-mole. it requires time and effort and an equal amount of tenacity. how do you sort of do, you know,

the shallow political combat, and then the deeper work? >> let me give you an example where we can bring both together. this is what we're calling for at the leadership conference. we know a majority of americans think democracy is on the ballot. that means civil rights laws, voting rights. we need the questions to come from those who are going to be asking the questions at the presidential debate, about their positions on teaching history, about their positions on book bans. what will they do as president? around the very important issues of a very diverse, equitable and inclusive society, which is under attack right now. >> i just wanted to say that i don't think what we see now happening with trumpism, that's not america. that's not us. this is the thing we're going through.

you watch what happens in november. americans are going to stand up and say we want freedom to mean freedom. we don't want right-wing dictatorsships tells us -- i believe that. >> i love ending on an optimistic note. it's a privilege and a pleasure to talk with both of you. thank you so much for spending time with us today. we're going to snead in one more break. we'll be right back. e going to more break we'll be right back. turn shipping to your advantage. with low cost ground shipping from the united states postal service. ♪♪ (smelling) ew. gotta get rid of this. ♪tell me why♪ because it stinks. ♪have you tried downy rinse and refresh♪ it helps remove odors 3x better than detergent alone. it worked guys! ♪yeahhhh♪ downy rinse and refresh. “the darkness of bipolar depression made me feel like i was losing interest in the things i love.

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an update for yesterday's story, representative bob good, who broad trump ire, is locked in a dead heat with his trump-backed primary challenger, trailing john mcgwire by just 340 votes. the state of bob good ironically hinges on the counting of mail-in ballots, which he spent of 2020 election -- elsewhere, eugene vindman, let to trump's first impeachment won his primary race in virginia. another break for us. we'll be right back. virginia another break for us we'll be right back. ♪ i heard i had a choice ♪ ♪ i know the name, that's what i'm saying ♪ -cologuard®? -cologuard. cologuard! -screen for colon cancer. -at home, like you want.

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