business. and it's all from comcast business. ♪ ♪ [ speaking minionese ] no. no. no. no. no. no. [ gasps ] [ chuckling ] good job, junior. way to go. [ chuckling ] [ speaking minionese ] dr. anthony fauci get to night's last word. the 11th hour with stephanie starts right now.

new reporting on the judge in the mar-a-lago documents case. new questions about whether she should step aside as the 11th hour gets underway on this thursday night. good evening once again. i'm stephanie ruhle and we are now 138 days away from an election in which abortion is set to play a defining role. and now democrats on capitol hill have a new focus when it comes to safeguarding abortion access. which they believe will be at risk if donald trump returns to the white house. they are ramping up efforts to reveal the comstock act. this has been on the books 150 years. it is related to materials being sent by mail that are connected to abortion. it is often referred to as a zombie law because it remains on the books though it hasn't been enforced in decades. the democratic senator tina smith who is cosponsoring the

bill to repeal it warns it could be used under trump to crack down on abortion access or ban it altogether. >> we have seen a full on attack on women and their rights to their bodies. part of this agenda in this maga party led by donald trump is to use this old zombie law from 150 years ago to make a medication abortion illegal without ever even having an act of congress to make it so. >> this move to get rid of it comes days before another major political milestone. next week, will be the second anniversary of the reversal of roe v. wade. axios reports kamala harris will travel to arizona and maryland monday as part of the biden campaign's effort to highlight reproductive rights. so far, donald trump has resisted calls for a national ban but earlier this month, he

praised the work of a group that supports a total ban for its devotion to saving quote innocent life. and remember, of course, donald trump has repeatedly taken credit for the supreme court decision that overturned roe. with that, let's get smarter with the help of our lead off panel tonight. evan is here, reporter from notice. juanita joins us. democratic strategist. msnbc political analyst, and tara joins us. former gop communications director and cofounder of the new bipartisan superpac targeting moderate women. juanita, i turn to you first. what do you make of this push to repeal comstock? >> it is smart even if it is just a messaging bill because it signifies another fault line between democrats and republicans when it comes to accessing reproductive health

care. it really gained a lot of traction last spring during oral arguments related to the mifepristone case where justice alito really brought it up as a reasonable avenue for blocking access to this prescription medication. and so i think that raised a flag for democrats to revisit this and this comes on the heels of the arizona state supreme court allowing an 1864 law to go into effect which was related to an abortion ban which though the governor passed a bill to repeal it, still, for a few days, took effect. and so all of this is coming back to a reality of what tools could be deployed by trump and congressional republicans in a reality where they potentially have control of the white house and congress. and so i think this again is an opportunity for democrats to really lay out for voters to understand what that threat is in the context of a reality where roe has been overturned

with the dobbs decision. it is smart, political, understanding that abortion rights are highly potent mobilizing issue across partisan lines and demographics. this is something that house democrats can take to their districts in their races and hit republicans over the head with repeatedly just as we are seeing, biden harris reelection campaign hitting donald trump over the head with this. >> not all democrats believe this should be a election year priority. some say it is a distraction. you have been doing reporting on this. >> i should say my colleague is the best reporter in the country. the debates on the margins, something else, but the people at the real messaging problem

when it comes to abortion is the republican party and the biden campaign and struggles to get their message across. but the biggest sort of political thing you can think of when it comes to this is this abortion issue where you have the movement that spent decades, decades trying to get to this point now. it is a winner everywhere that it gets on the ballot. it is the republicans who have the hardest times when it comes to messaging this whole thing. >> what do you think? >> i think this is the issue of the election. when women have had enough, they can save our democracy.

freedom is on the ballot here. it started with dobbs. from other areas, we see we are waiting with baited breath for this scotus decision coming up where they criminalized emergency care for women in idaho. 68% of women regardless ofth necessity or political affiliation. because it is happening in idaho or texas or missouri doesn't mean it is not going to happen to all of us as

women if the extremist agenda gets into power. arizona was ground zero for this. juanita made the point about that 1860 law that the supreme court tried to implement. the zombie laws these republicans are using in order to resurrect these kinds of things for their agenda. you cannot have a lack of imagination for what they are trying to do here. so as we lay out what's at stake for women, particularly these moderate women in swing states, some of these nikki haley type voters, right of center women who need a permission structure to vote for joe biden. we show them your future and freedom not only for you and your daughters is at stake here. and it is very real. we see the headlines every single day. >> the division over whether or not to repeal comstock boils down to this question. can america really afford to take a wait and see approach with the second trump term. >> they are not running like

they can. i think some of this debate about what is going on really is political. the reality of the situation is democrats have a winning issue when it comes to the abortion issue in america. the reality of the situation is this is not going away for the conservatives or the republican party. this is a problem of their own making and they are trying to figure out ways out of it by walking away from the thing they believed in a long time. democrats can keep saying you believed it for a long time. that is a good hand for them. >> the latest fox poll shows that president biden is leading donald trump for the first time since last october. we have 20 weeks to go. but what do you make of these

numbers? >> i'm thinking about what contributed to that. trump's convictions likely contributed to that. i saw an interesting point relate today the economy stephanie where 58% of voters said their personal financial situation had improved or was holding steady now. now that is something that democrats are absolutely likely to latch onto. considering how much republicans are attempting to hit them over the head. and i think about that in the context of the debate and how president biden will try to present this in another contrast with former president trump. former president trump ran the economy into the ground. president biden can say i have broken historic records related to job creation.

what about inflation? he can talk about corporate greed whether it is their improved personal situation, or they are holding steady now in spite of all the external factors. >> this shows biden leading trump by nine points among independent voters. that is an 11-point jump from may when they favored trump by two points. this is a key group. how does the president keep this momentum going? >> they have to continue to hammer the message home over and over again. donald trump represents chaos and a convict. president biden represents compassion. he is adulting while donald trump is criming, president biden is adulting. he is doing what presidents do. he is representing america with

honor. getting things done. getting things done in europe. situations here at home. to juanita's point again, we have the best economy in the world. we are number one in oil production. inflation is coming down. gas prices are coming down. record setting stock market. they have to make sure they stay on messaging and explain to people that donald trump is the chaos candidate and president biden is the candidate getting things done. and as people start to feel this more in their pockets, what we are seeing are the trends. we have to pay attention to the trends. the fed is considering cutting interest rates in the fall. they have been talking about this. which would be great political timing for president biden if that did in fact happen. because this inflation issue is the lagging indicater that hurt president biden's economic message. as that changes, it will

increase for president biden. >> the data could be there all day long. it has been there for months. it is not until the american people start to feel these positive impacts on the economy. that is a good thing. and they are seeing it now. evan, donald trump has not made a huge or even a noticeable effort to court those nikki haley voters. last week, he supposedly slammed the city of milwaukee where the republican national convention is going to be hosting milwaukee in a critical swing state. these do not seem to be the actions of a person who really wants to win this election. what am i miss ing? >> it is unexpected. i want to get back to the theme you have been talking about. that democrats are divided. and that biden is getting his coalition back together. all of those things have been challenged in the biden campaign itself.

>> remember when bernie sanders and hillary clinton were running? >> when you get to this point now, where it is actually trump who has a lot of people to convince. she is talking moderate women trump has a problem with. you talk about the nikki haley voters. trump has a lot of work to do that we don't talk about much because of what the poll numbers have been. >> biden has some very clear hurdles. there is an average of 30 different polls out there. and it shows that president biden, his lead among women has slid to about eight percentage points since 2020. meanwhile, donald trump has regained his double digit lead in support from men. what do you make of this, juanita? >> look, i look at this number and i look at how polls

underestimated president biden's performance in 2020 with different demographics from women, voters of color. and more. one thing i did notice is there seemed to be this biennia approach to looking at how women rated the issues. they took out the economy and inflation separate from reproductive rights and abortion access. one thing polls are missing is the reality these issues are interconnected. when it comes to making decisions about pregnancy or parenting you better believe financial realities are a part of those considerations for pregnant people. that is something that is missing from the polls. that is clearly communicated when i'm talking to voters and women across the country. because they fully understand that these are all tied together. people seeking out abortion care are usually already mothers. let's be real.

polls have been underestimating president biden since last election cycle. >> all right. before i let this team go, i want to talk about donald trump's vp search. we keep hearing about marco rubio. tim scott. jd vance. there is one name we haven't heard of. but who could definitely be in that lineup. kevin mccarthy. could kevin mccarthy be in play? he is obviously not working right now. he is a political beast. he is a fund raising machine. could he be waiting in the wings here? >> no. i mean, i like this as a fun political exercise. at 11:15 at night for all of us who do this for a living but there is no way kevin mccarthy is on the short list for vp. because he didn't respect kevin mccarthy one iota and kevin mccarthy brings nothing to the table for donald trump. >> you think he respects tim

scott? >> no. >> he doesn't respect any of them. >> no. no. he doesn't. but he enjoys watching them clown themselves. he gets off on this idea of this kind of hunger games approach to becoming his vice president. so no. he is not picking any one of those people. let's be honest here. if his campaign is smart, they would pick a woman. he does have a problem with women voters in this country. none of those people that he has listed there bring anything to the table that would help him gain more voters. politics is a game of addition. if you are going the win elections you have to add people. what do any of these people, doug burgham, he doesn't help donald trump in any way. so i just, i just think that we need to be honest about who donald trump should pick that would help him in the areas where he is weakest. not one of those people

including kevin mccarthy, one of the most cowardous people out of anyone in congress at the time. he does not have a chance in hell of being a presidential pick for donald trump. >> he could pick a woman. but he could lose a family pet if he gets christy. when we return, we are seeing two presidents on a debate stage and it is about to all go down in one week. how biden and trump are prepping for the showdown. later two judges, not one, two judges urged aileen cannon not to take up trump's classified documents case. we will get into that new reporting. the 11th hour just getting underway on a thursday night. underway on a thursday night.

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in just one week from now, president joe biden and former president donald trump will meet for the first time in four years. and we have new details on what the first debate will look like. president biden will be standing at the podium on the right. the same place he stood the last time he debated trump. and trump will go second for closing statements meaning he will have the last word. today, debate host cnn confirmed that independent candidate robert f. kennedy jr.

will not be there. he did not meet the ballot or the polling requirements to be on the stage. evan and juanita are still here and amanda carpenter joins us. a writer and editor for protect democracy. amanda, order of closing statements. how much do these things matter? >> they do matter in the margins but honestly. what i'm struggling to grapple with is how this doesn't end up being a 90-minute commercial for trump's big election lies. i'm not just talking about the 2020 lie that the election was stolen from him. but the lie he has unfolded today. the department of justice is somehow being weaponnized against him. i struggle to understand how you can provide someone like donald trump a platform on live television responsibly. we have had a lot of debates about media. and what to do with republican

party. this is a dangerous proposition. there is not really, doesn't seal like there is anything anybody can do about it. we have these debates. we want to participate in these things. this is going to happen. right? and this is the beginning of what i think is going to be a rip cord of political events the next three weeks. you have the debate. monumental supreme court decisions coming next week in the immediate aftermath of that. trump's sentencing, the opening of the republican convention and the unfolding of a vice presidential candidate whoever donald trump picks. this will be a whip saw of events. and the debate next week will set the stage and donald trump has a huge platform to set it off. >> a huge platform and right next to him, joe biden has a huge platform to call him out for it. when donald trump, evan, is on the stage at rallies, there is no pushback. he is only doing interviews

with right wing outlets but next week, he will have an equal amount of time in the exact same opportunity as president biden. the moderators have the opportunity to push back on him. or follow-up. obviously, joe biden does. so could this be a huge advantage for president biden that he realtime can call out former president trump? >> they really want to have this moment where the president and his former president are on the stage together and they think when the two things happen and owe biden can say he wants to say to donald trump's face, joe biden comes out looking better so that is exactly why we are doing this so early. because the biden campaign is just a good idea. >> juanita, you think trump is definitely showing up? we have heard from others saying i'm not so sure. >> let's be real. >> trump is not going to do any

of his favorite things. >> right. and so, let's be real. he can opt out at any point before going live. if he does, i hope they broadcast with an empty podium. the key factor of this debate is the moderators have this mute button that they will be deploying. so that is another opportunity and part of the rule that's will allow for direct rebuttals, direct fact checking from the host as well as limiting donald trump from just spewing his lies unchecked. i have this visual in my mind, steph, of his little arms flailing and him turning red in the face and speaking but no one can hear him. i think that image is absolutely something that the biden campaign wants. as tara mentioned in the previous segment. this juxtaposition of chaos unhinged, random stream of consciousness approach that donald trump is likely going to bring to this debate compared to president biden with his composure, his compassion, his communication of the issues, is

the clear contrast. i think the other factor here though is how much donald trump is going to complain about this process. so even if he does show up, is there a reality where he makes it to the end or does he walk off the stage at any point? anything is possible in this scenario. that makes for great live television. >> evan, we have read that president biden's team is apparently worried that trump will actually stay disciplined for the full 90 minutes. and maybe there is a risk they have overplayed their hand saying we will get unfiltered trump. but let's say trump is disciplined for 90 minutes which

the new york times is reporting a gop megadonor gave $50 million to a trump pac the day after his conviction. one of the largest contributions of any candidate ever. how significant is this tined kind of money for trump? >> he had a huge fund raising call. that is certainly a ton of money from a single person and it speaks to the fact that the money will be there for him. during this campaign. regardless of his legal bills, the money will come in from him. and what i thought was really disturbing last week was the response that he got from the business round table when he visited, made his return back to capitol hill. they have this idea we are unified by an economic agenda. i kind of think that is garbage. because donald trump is not campaigning on an economic

agenda. he is campaigning against the rule of law. campaigning on his grievances. there is a massive show of unity behind tax cuts. that is enough to get people on board. what i think really. >> hold on a minute. i'm going to push back. i covered this. the business round table made no statement after. there was not. hold on a minute. there could be a general sense they support tax cuts but andrew sorkin had reporting from people inside the room who had been leaning toward trump and said he was meandering. he was difficult to follow and they left feeling really disappointed and it was not just donald trump's opportunity to go back to the business community. the business round table, every four years invites both candidates. this isn't donald trump's grand return and they endorsed him. he got absolutely no endorsement from the business round table. and jeff came from the white

house. he was at the g7. >> i think donald trump is so out of the norm, i do not know why the leaders of the business community felt the need to meet him face to face. in the aftermath of january 6th, a lot of leaders in the business community say that is a bright bloodline. we will not add donations to it. slowly they started coming back around. he is the republican presidential nominee. give him a chance and preserve their standing. the money will be there for him. if he wins again, they will be back on board. >> but they are not saying they are going to give any money. they are showing up because there's almost a 50% chance he could be the next president of the united states. >> exactly. exactly. >> and they have to not

necessarily endorse him. they have to interface with him. >> that's their choice. i understand why they are doing it to preserve their business standing. they have to make a financial bet. they have to preserve both sides. and they are actually like, they are just preserving their interest. okay, fine, i get it. but donald trump is so far out of the norm for the rule of law to get to the point i was previously trying to make. there has to be a lot more understanding about thousand authoritarianism is bad for the economy. businesses suffer, the ones in really good with the leader don't do great. so that is like i want to see more work develop. the economy will be nowhere but the toilet. >> thank you all very much.

when we return, new reporting on the judge in trump's classified documents trial. why even her colleagues on the bench urged her to step back from the case saying it was not a good idea. but she seems to think it is. when the 11th hour continues. an alternative to pills, voltaren is a clinically proven arthritis pain relief gel, which penetrates deep to target the source of pain with nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory medicine directly at the source. voltaren, the joy of movement.

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tomorrow, three days of critical hearings in the classified documents case against donald trump including one about whether special counsel jack smith should have

been appointed. the new york times reports today that judge aileen cannon who is handling the case rejected multiple suggestions to step aside last year. quote, two more experienced colleagues on the federal bench in florida urged her to pass it up and hand it off to another jurist. so let's discuss. i want to bring in former u.s. attorney joyce vance who spent 25 years as a federal prosecutor. joyce, what is your reaction to the new york times report? have you ever heard of anything like this? >> so this is extraordinarily unusual reporting. you know, federal judges are not in the habit of kissing and telling stuff. and that's ha we have here. people close to the judges or the judges themselves airing the dirty laundry. there is a lot of distension, there are judges uncomfortable with the jay the judge is handling herself in this case. >> there is a lot of

speculation about cannon's handling of this case and whether she goes out of her way to help trump. but let's be honest. we criticize her all day long yesterday and tomorrow. she is not in any danger of getting kicked off this thing. >> not unless jack smith can take an appeal to the 11th circuit. when she drew this case, it was a random draw. i wrote a piece suggesting she recuse herself. there is case law in the 11th circuit handled a series of cases in 2006 where the 11th circuit recused judges because of a series of rulings that showed they might be unable to set aside some of their past rulings and handle the case moving forward. and she really rings that bell. she had the two bad rulings that she made while she was considering the very unusual civil proceeding trump filed in order to prevent the government

from using the fruits of the search at mar-a-lago for the criminal investigation. i still continue to believe that if the 11th circuit had the opportunity to consider this case, they would very likely set her aside and order the chief judge to appoint a new judge. but through delay tactics she has kept any rulings from being made that would permit jack smith to appeal her to the 11th circuit. >> let me ask you more about special prosecutor smith. tomorrow there is this hearing about whether special counsel jack smith's appointment was even legitimate. what is this challenge against him based on? >> so this is a challenge that says that the mechanism for appointing special counsels is not constitutional. that the attorney general can't do the appointment. that it would have to be a presidential appointment followed by senate confirmation. the notion of devoting a full day to a hearing on this issue i think just underscoring how

legitimate the concerns about judge cannon's handling of this case are. >> joyce, you make us smarter every time you're here. thank you very much. when we return, the stock market is hot, but trump's media stock is not so much. we'll get into it when the 11th hour continues. 11th hour continues.

more positive news on wall street. the s&p 500 set another record today.

the index of course which tracks 500 of the biggest american companies broke 5500 for the first time it did back before the markets closed. it was a very big day unless you were donald trump's media company. that stock was down 15% and it is off more than 40% since the beginning of june. it has been dropping since trump was convicted. joining me to discuss, peter spiegel and david gurr. correspondent for bloomberg and host of the big take podcast. trump media stock is. >> tanking. >> like a shrinky at the top of the stairs bouncing down. it picked up a lot of momentum after that conviction. turns out being convicted of 34 felony counts does not something people get behind. donald trump wants and need this company to do well. this is a great disappointment

to him. he can't sell that stock until september. what happened most recently, the acc gave the go ahead for them to exercise. last time i was on the show, someone used the term risk assets and the temperature dropped. >> that young man isn't back here. >> but they are able to convert those into stock. so this is a company that doesn't look great. certainly doesn't look great on paper. its revenues are in the six figures. i think it made about $700,000. its losses are in the nine figures. it lost about $300 million. so it is not going anywhere but again down the staircase. but donald trump's stake is still in the billions. >> that's right. but he has to hold onto it for a while. the s&p 500 is up. and it is largely driven by ai.

vidia, 20% of the entire s&p 500 rally. the other thing driving it is corporate profits. they are still going up though prices are going up. last time i was on with you, the cure to high prices is higher prices. corporates have raised prices even more to fatten their margins and you are starting to hear biden talk about this. janet yellen was on your network not too long ago saying corporate greed, corporate greed. and we are seeing this in the polling numbers. americans don't blame biden for inflation. they blame corporates. this could impact corporate product. >> fast food restaurants, you are seeing target suddenly out of the blue able to lower their prices so you can't say all

these input costs are so high we had to raise our prices. >> the two things, we have ai driving most of the value. but corporate profits are still high. we have earnings week next week. let's see if they could have the ability to restore the prices. >> right now americans feel better about the economy than they have during this biden presidency. so are we starting to see the shift? the three of us have been talking for a year-and-a-half. we have had a great economic recovery. because inflation is so oppressive, people haven't felt it. are we breaking through that? >> i think so. companies by and large have been participating in the escalation of prices. having optimism that maybe

interest rates will come down soon. seeing data, feeling data that makes them feel better about the economy, the administration is doing a better job. >> one thing i worry about is who is inflation hitting the hardest? the young, the working classes. these are voters biden needs and they will be the last ones to start feeling the benefits of the economy. >> rent too high. buying your first home is impossible. >> eggs, milk. so there is some movement in the polling. we have our own polling we do every month. it is not moving up in the right places which is the voters they need to get back in the coalition. >> i will not let either of you leave unless we talk a bit about elon musk. i'm sure both of you remember. i actually think you were in the audience. >> i was there. >> months ago. >> he was talking to you i think. >> elon musk told twitter advertisers that were threatening to pull their ads

from the platform that they could go f themselves and guess what? this week is the biggest advertising conference in the world. ken lions is out there playing cleanup saying i was trying to make a point about free speech. elon musk does not retreat. he does not say sorry. how much of a window is it into twitter you can see for elon musk to go there with his hat in his hand. are they in trouble? >> kind of. he got there and the first question he was asked was why did you say that and what did you mean by it. there was a bit of song and dance. it is not critical of all advertisers. just some. my biggest take away is still people flock to see him. that's where i see the trump parallel. these advertisers were gravely insulted by him. they all showed up in droves.

he needs them desperately. >> he is not ceo of twitter. he is one of the great media sales people advertising people in the business. i'm sure she whispered in his ear saying you have made my life incredibly difficult. can you please help me out here? >> it is a lot easier to sell the olympics than conspiracy theories. just saying. gentlemen, thank you so much. see? you caught yourself. you will be invited back. dan nathan. risk assets not showing you coming back my friend. when we return, his incredible acting career spanned from mash to the hunger games. we remember the great donald sutherland when the 11th hour continues. when the 11th hour continues.

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the last thing before we go tonight, remembering legendary actor donald sutherland. the man whose career spanned six decades and so many genres died today at the age of 88. nbc's joe fryer has a look at his life and incredible career. >> reporter: donald sutherland could not be confined by a single genre. from drama. >> can't you see anything except in terms of how it affects you. >> reporter: comedy. >> i'm not joking. this is my job. >> reporter: thrillers. >> i don't play nice or bad or good. i just play the fellow. so i can find something in everybody to play.

>> reporter: his big break came in 1967 with the dirty dozen. >> i would rather be a civilian, sir. >> reporter: he was hawkeye pierce in the movie mash. >> i have seen you somewhere before. >> reporter: then opposite jane fonda in kloot. >> i have some terrific friends. >> no thank you. >> reporter: later he ventured into tv with an emmy for citizen x before introducing himself to a new audience on the big screen in the hunger games. in the 2016 western forsaken he played father son with his real life son kiefer. >> he is someone i wanted to work with for my whole career. >> reporter: today, he called his dad one of the most important actors in the history of film. never daunted by a role, good, bad, or ugly. from ron howard who directed him in backdraft, one of the

most interesting, intelligent and engrossing film actor of all time. a body of work that led to an honorary academy award in 2017. >> thank you for putting my name on this. >> reporter: sealing his sweeping legacy. joe fryer, nbc news. >> hollywood legend who will be missed. and on that note, i wish you a good night. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late. i'll see you at the end of tomorrow. the end of tomorrow. tonight on all in. >> alito struck me almost immediately upon sitting down to talk with him as a radical. as a fanatic. >> 70s from a presidential debate and