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gunman opened fire at a grocery store in arkansas. the alleged shooter was shot by police before being taken into custody. conditions from those injured range from non-life-threatening to extremely critical. in south carolina, a small plane was forced to make an emergency landing on the interstate. they were in the air for 40 minutes before a quick descent on the interstate's median. wow! in moments the watching and the waiting, and the waiting, and the waiting. what's behind at the supreme court, ahead. good day to all of you from msnbc headquarters in new york. welcome, everyone, to "alex witt reports." with just five days until the presidential debates, president biden is campaigning today

while one of his surrogates is outlining how the campaign is boosting outreach to african american voters. >> the idea black folks should just show up is wrong and i believe joe biden understands that. kamala harris certainly understands it, which is why as we move forward into this campaign, you will see the ways in which they have already invested far more than donald trump in reaching out to black communities even if it were to list them up and you will see them ramp up over the next few months in order to and the job is and on until november 5th. >> donald trump on the campaign trail today speaking at a rally in philadelphia tonight. right now you see him addressing conservative in washington, d.c. we will have a report on that in just a moment for you. a short time ago, congresswoman ocasio-cortez and bernie sanders in the bronx. tight primary race on tuesday.

>> why is our political establishment doing that? because jamaal bowman dared to speak up for palestinians. >> this election is about whether or not the billionaire class and the ll. will control the united states. government in our view, no, they won't. >> the biden/harris campaign announcing a series of events next week marking two years since the overturning of roe v wade and while we await two more big decisions from the supreme court, both with connections to the former president, ruling on his claim on absolute immunity and a ruling on a january 6th obstruction charge. we have correspondence in place covering all of these angles. we will first go to julie tsirkin at the face conference in washington, d.c. where -- i can't figure it out. is that donald trump still speaking behind you there? he's been on for well over an

hour. >> reporter: well over an hour indeed, alex. he has been talking about every topic you can think of. he is talking to a crowd of christian conservative activists , people who want to hear the former president who want to hear him talk about culture war issues and that is exactly what he has been doing. of course, he has been focusing on the border issues and immigration. he talked a little bit about the debate and through jabs at president biden. he talked about how the 2020 election was rigged and said democrats won't do it again. trump said they won't do it again this november. he had roaring applause from the crowd so far to pretty much everything he's brought up. most notably his comments on abortion. of course, he's the reason we have three supreme court justices adding to that majority in the supreme court who were responsible for the ruling in 2022 to overturn roe v. wade. take a listen to trump taking

credit for that here. >> i took a lot of heat. i took a lot of heat. a lot of hits, but we did the right thing. thanks to jesus justices, we have achieved what the pro-life movement for 49 years and we've gotten abortion out of the federal government and back to the states. the way everybody and the legal scholars always said it should be. it is up to the will of the people in each state. some states will be more conservative. some will be more liberal. that is happening now. >> reporter: so saying abortion should be left up to the states, saying there should be exceptions, that is not going as far as some of the people here want him to go. they want him to advocate for federal abortion ban but outside of this room, that is not popular. the former president of course talking about other issues that i mentioned, most notably sing to the crowd christians are being attacked undercurrent --

under our current president, president biden. i want to point out the top contenders to be trump running mate in november to split his ticket with him are not at this event. we saw a lot of senators, a lot of lawmakers. not senator rubio or senator vance as you see on your screen. another governor did take the stage, kristi noem of south dakota who took the stage a few minutes before trump went on, touting the conservative christians in the room need him as president so that was an interesting dynamic there. she was once viewed as a potential contender on the list but as you can see behind me, alex, he is still going in the crowd is very receptive of him before he goes to philadelphia later today for a rally. >> applause to you, my friend. you didn't miss a beat. that was very hard to do. i hope our viewers understand that. i am applauding you.

good job. thank you very much, julie. let's get over to allie raffa at the white house. what a rehearing as president biden prepares for the trump rematch? >> reporter: in an exclusive interview with msnbc , harris talking about what she sees as the stakes of this election and giving a preview of what she expects the president to focus on when he faces off against former president trump for the first time in four years on thursday night's debate stage. listen here. >> joe biden and this debate will make clear the contrast. you know, many issues in our country and our world that are complex and nuanced. november of 2024 is binary and when you look at the difference, i would ask people to really imagine what the world will be like on january 20th, 2025. on one hand --

>> reporter: alex, right now the president is prepping for what is expected to be the biggest prime time moment of this election cycle so far. he's using the remote retreat of camp david to huddle with his team of closest advisors and campaign staff to prep for this high-stakes moment. as far as what these intensive sessions consist of, we know they are being led by his former chief of staff. he is surrounded by his closest aides and confidant, really preparing him for policy issues they expect to come up during this debate against former president trump but also what they seek as the inevitable moments, those unscripted moments, those personal jabs they expect former president trump to take against president biden, so that is all factoring into the president's debate prep in camp david the next few days. alex, the biden campaign sees

this as an opportunity given this debate will happen months before the first general election debate in 2020 which happened in september, they see this as an opportunity as a chance to grasp the attention of voters who may not have been paying attention at all thus far. they will be operating this very robust response operation, responding and reaction to the debate in real time. they are planning on sending several surrogates to atlanta where the debate is held to drive the president's message even further, alex. >> thank you from the white house, allie raffa. watch the rest of the vice president's interview on morning joe monday morning at 6:00 a.m. eastern right here on msnbc . joining me now, supreme court reporter lawrence hurley. let's get into the things that have happened and what has yet to happen. why has it taken so long for the court to rule on trump's

claim of immunity and election interference case? knowing the delay could possibly present the case from going to trial before voters cast a vote, lawrence, is there reasonable justification for holding up the decision? >> alex, it is different to -- difficult to see into the heads of the justices to know what they are thinking about but there was a delay in the court whether or not to even hear this case but when they did decide to hear it, there was no urgency to hear it quickly. they heard oral arguments in april and there is clearly no urgency in deciding the case as we head towards the end of the course term. although we will get a ruling in the next week or so, that doesn't leave a lot of time for trial especially if there are local proceedings that have to take place first so we can infer from that there are some justices who think there is no urgency in deciding this and this is just another case they have to decide. maybe they don't want to look

like they are favoring either biden or trump, but of course by delaying it, a lot of people are accusing them of exactly that, favoring trump. >> they would fail on that front if that were the attempt but there are 14 left to decide. one involves a january 6th defendant trying to throw out charges. he tried to obstruct an official proceeding. donald trump has been accused of that same, lawrence, so explain how the court's ruling could affect trump's prosecution. >> that's right. obstruction of an official proceeding law that trump and this defendant, joseph fisher is the subject of this supreme court case have been charged under, you know, the defendant in this case says this is evidence tampering and shouldn't apply to what he was doing on january 6th. a lot of scholars are saying even if the supreme court rules in his favor and says yes, this law can't be used to prosecute

someone on january 6th, that doesn't necessarily mean it would affect trump's , himself. in his case he is accused of being much more intimately involved with this scheme of fake electors and to try to actually impede the certification of the electoral votes and there is a suggestion there there were pieces of paper involved and documents and this is what the law was intended to cover but we will see more when the court actually rules in that case. >> okay, when will we hear about presidential immunity? i know there will be wednesday releases, which is a typical. thursday, a typical. does this possibly going to the beginning of july? what are your thoughts on that? >> as you head into the last week of the supreme court, the court starts to add days as needed so we can assume we already know there will be rulings on wednesday. they will probably add

thursday, friday, and if they are not done by then, which usually they tried to get it done by the end of june but there is no reason it can't wait until monday if there are cases left. it is worth noting the immunity case was added at the last minute so it wasn't the last case to be argued. it was argued after all of the other cases were argued and that could be a reason they are backed up a bit. >> okay. lawrence hurley, we will see. thank you so much. one thing donald trump's campaign is doing ahead of the debate and if it could backfire for him. back in 90 seconds.

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final details getting in place ahead of the debate on thursday. the biden team won the coin toss giving them the choice of podium position or closing statements. biden chose the podium on the right, giving trump the last word. trump meanwhile seems to be trying to manage expectations and implied if biden does well it is only because he was artificially pumped up and told supporters to be weary of the whole debate process. joining me now, brendan buck former price press secretary and political analyst, and democratic strata list and former obama campaign advisor. ladies first. what is the podium position advantage, and does it outweigh

who gives the final closing statement? does biden want trump's words to be the final of the night, and if so, why? >> many people think the podium advantage location is because of where your eyes go when you are watching television. typically speaking the person that has the last word in most cases is the person acknowledging donald trump will be a wild character because he has been 5000 times over and is guaranteed to say extremely offensive things. having him go last could be the moment he says something that turns off the majority of americans, particularly those in the swing states and those necessary to actually maintain real leverage in this upcoming election but i do think that to allow donald trump to have the last word? it means there is an ace in the back pocket for the biden campaign because typically unless you already know you will

say something unexpected. i would say pay attention to how biden performs in this upcoming debate because there are going to be some surprises. >> interesting take. brendan, the trump team has repeatedly called biden sleepy, incoherent, unable to put a sentence together. have they set the bar too low for the president and are they now trying to reverse course? >> yes, and every republican in the country and conservative media, no doubt. there is an expectation joe biden is incapable of completing a sentence. there are moments, notably at the state of the union, it has been deflating for republicans. now i do think though there is a high bar that joe biden is going to need to be able to meet . people are going to be looking for this from joe biden. has his age caught up with him? people are tuning in really

starting to pay attention. i've heard a lot about joe biden's age. this may be the first time people are going to be seeing him be challenged in any meaningful way, so there is a lot of risk for him in this situation and whether he does have a moment either he falters or trump can step in and really push the gas against him. so i think this is a relatively high -- very high-stakes debate, actually. most debates don't end up moving the numbers very much but i think this one in particular is extremely important. >> that's interesting because these men are three years apart in age, 81 and 78. it's not like either is a spring chicken. let's go to axios and reports from them, ameshia. senior democrats are worried about biden's strategy on democracy, on political violence, on trump's character. how much of the debate will shape strategy and could biden change course midstream?

>> i absolutely think biden will change course midstream. it is important to understand the policy but it's also important to know america is on the brink of if trump is reelected not having a democracy at all. we seen what project 2025 looks like. trump said he would be a dictator on day one. this debate will be focused on the barbs donald trump tries to throw directly at president biden. we know he will go low for donald trump. i think he is going to go as deep and hard as he can that joe biden has to not the, rattled by that. he has to attack former president trump in the same types of ways. he has got to show his strength in that capacity. we know that trump will go after hunter biden and we know he will say a lot of things that are untrue because he does that debate after debate. he has to fact check him as well . there is a lot he has to

juggle at the same time and i think joe biden is up to the task. >> brendan, with regard to hunter biden, do you think americans would want to see him pretty strongly push back against donald trump, because this is a father about her son. >> absolutely and i expect that is what they will do. donald trump needs to tread very carefully here. this election will be decided by what we call the double haters, those who don't love either candidate. donald trump would be wise with good behavior because he comes out and he's obnoxious and he looks mean and he reminds people why they don't like him. if he is the most heritable for the double haters, that could be really bad. going after someone whose son struggled with addiction, that will certainly come across as a pretty unseemly thing to do. >> what about the biden poll numbers trending upwards according to foxnews, that has him up by two points, within the margin of error. does that show you biden's strategy -- is it working?

>> it might. that pole notably stands out as showing biden ahead. it is encouraging for the biden campaign because that poll has been trending in biden's direction. month after month, it is getting better for them. whether it is just a snapshot, it is trending in the right direction. of course, this election will come down to a number of swing states. we will see more polls decide the election but if you are the biden campaign, it has got to be encouraging you are finally starting to see what should -- all of the external factors, the conviction, the economy, these things should eventually start trending in your direction so it should be encouraging for them. >> ameshia, a poll found 20% of independents say trump's conviction matters to their vote and they are less likely to support him. only 5% say they are more likely to support trump

. is that significant and how important is winning over democratics -- independence? >> it is extremely significant. donald trump has made a habit of trying to push up accountable for a majority of things he has been charged with but in new york he was found guilty on multiple felony charges. we are talking 30 plus felony charges. he's convicted of those things by a jury of his peers. for the swing voters in a handful of states brendan just talked about, it will matter because this is the same donald trump who has won on a law and order campaign. law and order has come up to him and he wants to dismantle the system that found him guilty. it matters to voters to have someone who is not a criminal in office. that is a big thing for a lot of undecided voters. >> should president biden, should he hammer it home that this is -- he has been

convicted on 34 felony counts? is that something he should hit hard during the debate? >> he absolutely should and his surrogates have been hitting it on the campaign trail as well. there is no recourse. trump will come back and try to appeal but he has been found guilty on a multitude of felony charges. that matters, especially when he's out here trying to paint that is predominately black as being disgusting, crime-ridden, as everyone entering the country at the southern border is a criminal. this guy has literally been convicted. he has to paint that picture. >> last question to you, brendan. the washington post reports biden's message against trump, he's worse than before. how do you get across to the voters trump will be worse in the second and follow through on his threats? >> i think they need to be more specific about it. it is a very reasonable concern they have. all of the things people know

about donald trump is actually tends to sort of wash over you and it seems easy to accept that oh, he is the crazy one and yeah, i can't look past that. you have to get the base fired up. also for those swing voters to remind them this isn't going to be just the good things your member about his time but he has actual policy changes that will be even worse than what you remember. he will come in with a bunch of people around you that will serve no rolling restraining him. they will only encourage his worst instincts. you have to rile people up and remind people because we are so numb to everything he's done but unless that pivot to some type of economic message and some answer on immigration, the top two issues people care about , it is insufficient and we haven't seen him figure it out yet. >> i think it's commonly called trump amnesia. brendan, good to see you. ameshia, you as well . it is hotter than hades out

there and the heat wave is and over yet. when we will get some relief. i don't even have words for it, it is that hot. >> i can't do it anymore. >> very, very hot. i feel bad for the kids that have to walk in it too. and restored using the power of dell ai. ♪ we all need fiber for our digestive health, but less than 10% of us get enough each day. good thing metamucil gummies are an easy way to get prebiotic, plant-based fiber. with the same amount of fiber as 2 cups of broccoli. metamucil gummies. the easy way to get your daily fiber. for people who feel limited by the unpredictability of generalized myasthenia gravis and who are anti-achr antibody positive, season to season, ultomiris is continuous symptom control, with improvement in activities of daily living. it is reduced muscle weakness.

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all your favorites. all in one place. only from xfinity. for more watching and less spending... x marks the spot. do it all on the network made for streaming, and bring on the good stuff. this breaking news, this weekend millions of americans are under heat advisories. many cities breaking record day highs today. in philadelphia, temperatures are flirting with 100 degrees today. >> reporter: on a scale of one to blazing, how hot is it? >> blazing. >> terrible. i'm staying inside. >> this heat wave has been hitting us pretty hard. >> wow, one to blazing. and in new york, the search continues for two missing teens

who went missing in queens. we begin with george solis outside of a philadelphia hospital. were you the one who posed that question from zero to blazing? my goodness, everyone seems to be blazing across the country. >> reporter: hey, alex. it certainly was. a lot of people felt they could agree with that because it is blazing out here. i have a handy thermometer to get a sense of how hot services are to get around on asphalt and these don't lie. 137 degrees out here. that shows you what we are dealing with when we are talking about scorching temperatures and they are dangerous. at the hospital, they are seeing a spike in heat related injuries and that is across the board at different medical systems and more true when you talk about people with pre- existing conditions who are more impacted in this heat. keep in mind here in june, this heat has come on aggressively. we haven't had time to acclimate and that is part of

the danger and what leads to heat illness, heatstroke, heat exhaustion, deadly hypothermia. i caught up with dr. reed in the hospital earlier to talk about what they are seeing and doing and that the advice for everyone while dealing with sweltering temperatures. take a listen. >> it does take time for the body to acclimate. there are things you can do. it could take a day or two, up to a week, even a conditioned athlete to become acclimated to the weather so it will take the average regular person a little longer to acclimate to the outside as your body is trying to auto regulate their temperature. >> reporter: in my younger days, i considered myself a conditioned athlete. certainly not the case anymore so i'm definitely taking some time to acclimate to this heat but again, just the messaging from officials here, drink plenty of fluids, stay in the

shade, wear light clothing. when you talk 136, 137 degree temperatures and that is just what it feels like on some surfaces with no relief in sight. philadelphia expected to break it 100 year plus record. it is serious stuff. >> george solis, thank you for that. steve patterson is following the wildfires in new mexico. steve, when i think about firefighters in this kind of heat facing blazes, i mean -- i don't even know how they do the job that they do. i know you just spoke with the governor. what did she tell you about the wildfires? >> reporter: yes, it is unbelievable wearing all that gear. i caught the governor coming out of a meeting with state, local, federal, tribal leadership talking about these two major wildfires burning for nearly a week. broadly some good news coming out of that meeting. first of all, the containment

is finally on not one but both fires. large containment on the bigger south fork fire. a little more moderate containment on the salt fire burning to the south. both fires surrounding several communities. 8000 people evacuated from their homes but they've gotten the perimeter far enough away from population centers they will start letting people back into their homes. hopefully that will start on monday, so great news for folks here but this is obviously quite in emergency situation. i spoke to the governor. she basically confirmed how broad and widespread the devastation is with thousands of structures burned to the ground. here is what she told me. >> the harrowing aspect here is the unofficial number because the cloud cover prevented us from really doing the satellite imagery or infrared imagery to tell us exactly how many structures to tell you how many businesses and how many homes, so that estimate is about 1400

still. we have to be clear that we don't want folks in a dangerous debris area. we are still doing investigations in that area and are hoping we are not going to have to report anymore casualties. >> reporter: 1400 structures destroyed, 500 estimated to be homes. two dead. that number has not fluctuated. those numbers now holding as they get back in to assess the damage but followed by bad news. there was rain, which means we are not in the same heat dome the rest of the country is in. 70 degrees. because we had the rain, there is the possibility of more flash flooding in the area. those burn scars when you put water on top of it can easily lead to mudslides so there are evacuations in place and they want to make sure those on the front lines are able to battle the flames safely, alex.

>> thank you so much, steve patterson. we are unpacking this new york times article. judge aileen cannon and the road not taken. it is certainly the one road less traveled by and, boy, has it made all the difference. chewy, a citi client, uses citi's financial expertise to help drive its growth and keep its supply chain moving, so more pet parents can get everything they need... right when they need it. keeping more pets, and families, happy. ♪♪ for the love of moving our clients forward. for the love of progress. our biggest challenge? uncertainty. hidden fees, surcharges... who knows what to expect! turn shipping to your advantage. keep it simple...with clear, upfront pricing. with usps ground advantage®. ♪♪ if you spit blood when you brush, it could be the start of a domino effect. new parodontax active gum repair breath freshener.

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the fact she doesn't deny most of these motions is silly. the fact trump can get a hearing on the flimsiest argument is shocking. the worst thing that could

happen to her, she actually does rule for trump on this because that would go to the 11th circuit and i think this, you know, petty, partisan prima donna would be put in her place and they would remove her. >> ty cobb's reaction to judge aileen cannon's three days of pre- hearings in the classified documents case. joining me now, attorney for trump's home district of palm beach county, florida. good to see you, my friend. is it silly for trump to get hearings on what ty cobb was calling flimsy arguments? and if she rules in trump's favor, should she be, "put in her place"? >> yes and yes, alex. has been litigated and re- litigated over and over again. after all, the law empowers the attorney general to make such employment but she went beyond that. she's giving outsiders,

people who are not even parties to this the chance to do the oral arguments on both sides. it's -- i've never seen this before. it is mind boggling and it shows you why she's not the right judge for this case. she is a rookie judge, inexperienced by herself in fort pierce without adult supervision and she's made a lot of rulings to the benefit of the person who appointed her. that is why a lot of us are scratching our heads and some have a more nefarious explanation of her behavior. i won't go that far, but it doesn't look good. >> digging a little deeper into this, judge cannon pressed prosecutors to disclose the extent of attorney general merrick garland's oversight of the trump investigations, then criticized a lawyer who said it was against doj policy to get into those specifics and this was after lawyers argued jack smith had inadequate oversight. was that an unexpected question

from her? should a judge be familiar with department of justice policy? >> yes, especially because she used to work for the department of justice. >> come on! >> she was a prosecutor. she was known for being pro- prosecution but once donald trump came before her as a defendant, it turned into better call saul. she turned into a civil libertarian. that's why people are saying, what's going on? and i do agree with ty cobb, trump's former lawyer that as long as she doesn't make a clear final order, jack smith cannot appeal her to the 11th circuit. right now jack smith is in this legal purgatory where he cannot ask for her removal until he does something with the final order that allows him to take it up to the managers in the 11th circuit. >> were you surprised by the details that judge cannon subjected commons by others to step aside? >> if you can imagine this,

alex, you are a new judge and a more senior judge says to you this should go to the miami branch, not where you are because fort pierce is a secured area for these documents. and she said, no, we will do it here and she forces the government to build one at taxpayers expense. then she gets a call from the chief judge of the district who says perception is not good. the optics are not good. you were removed from this case. you made bad decisions last year so it should be another judge and she's like, no, i got this. >> yeah, right. >> i think what she's into his redemption because she was embarrassed by the 11th circuit so she wants to prove herself to prove she is right to stay on this case and she can handle it herself. she hasn't proven it to me though. >> don't taxpayers have to pay for building that scif, by the way?

>> yes, and the cost over $1 million. fort pierce is a satellite courthouse. they've never had a case like this and because of her, they've had to build it and nothing is happening up there, not where the grand jury took place in miami. >> jack smith has a new filing on his request for gag order for trump falsely claiming the fbi wanted to kill him. he argues he cannot ignore the significant risk of harm by the messaging or because he is intentionally using inflammatory language that results in actions by supporters he's entitled to ask her constitutional protections. is donald trump trying to have it both ways? how are you expecting judge cannon to rule on this one? >> this is a tough one for judge cannon because she doesn't want to rule against trump but if she rules for trump, jack smith will take that to the 11th circuit. not only to get it reversed, but to get her recused from the case. i think that's why jack

smith has got her on this one. we will see where it goes. alex, in a few hours she will have a hearing on this issue. contrast that to the constitutionality of the special counsel, something she shouldn't even have a hearing on. she gave that a day and a half. that tells you where her priorities are. >> really quick before i let you go, why hasn't the supreme court delivered the immunity ruling? >> i think there will be a bunch of different opinions and i think they put their thumb on the scale of justice by delaying this matter. that case was set to go in washington, d.c. remember, they could have intervene in december. that is what jack smith asked for and they said, no, go to the d.c. appellate court, so jack smith did and the appellate court came out with a thorough reading in the supreme court threw it in the trash so i think the reason for the delay is they are coming up with several rulings and

concurrent opinions. it will be a bit of a mess and i think it will be hard to try this case before the election. one bright civil -- silver lining, alex, fact findings will let the public know what donald trump's rule was before and after january 6th. a mini trial, if you will. >> it will be a busy week. let's make a date for next week, dave aronberg. >> let's do it . donald trump list of grievances ahead of thursday's big debate. five days to go. when people switch their dog's food from kibble to the farmer's dog, they often say that it feels like magic. but there's no magic involved. (dog bark) it's simply fresh meat and vegetables, with all the nutrients dogs need— instead of dried pellets. just food made for the health of dogs. delivered in packs portioned for your dog. it's amazing what real food can do. when did i call leaffilter? when i saw my gutters overflowing onto my porch.

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opinion. good to see you, as always. how concerning is this for not just president biden but the democrats as a whole? are his conviction somehow his secret weapon? >> well, you know, he has played himself as a persecuted person since 2016. it is one of his core bonds with his voters who feel be grieved, unloved. a lot of them feel the system is out to get them. institutional america doesn't serve them well. trump has always played that card strongly. he played it obviously during his criminal fraud trial in new york. i -- you know, he was lagging severely prior to that case, so obviously there is momentum behind it now that may have come out of that case. he's had big lumpy donations, large number donations from single donors that could account for a lot of that rise

but at the end of the day, you know, joe biden will have plenty of money to advertise and campaign with, as probably will donald trump. i don't know in and of itself that the fundraising should sway people's thinking about what the cases themselves mean and i think you have seen in some of the polling that really cuts to the chase about does donald trump's guilty conviction change your mind about him as a candidate in that the always important independent voter, moderate voters who haven't made up their minds and i suspect it will continue. remember, you've got the july 11th sentencing date coming up and if the supreme court ever gets moving and rules on the media argument, there is a possibility -- i think it's slim, but there is a possibility jack smith could

get to one of the cases too and i think that matters to voters. >> it definitely matters. let's look at the upcoming debate because reports say while joe biden has spent the week preparing and mock debates, the trump campaign says trump doesn't need to practice because he's been using his media interviews to sharpen his message for months. do you buy that? >> well, i buy that he's doing it. i don't buy that means he's ready for the debate. this is a really, really, really important debate for both of them. biden has hunkered down at camp david. campaign prep. they are taking it seriously. trump has miller, jay.d. vance, marco rubio floating around him in different capacities but i don't think he is sitting down and prepping with purpose and acuity in mind . there is a danger in that not

simply because people should always prepare for debates. remember barack obama in 2012 didn't really prepare for his first debate for mitt romney and didn't engage fully and it showed. it is usually more perilous for incumbent presidents than challengers. having said that the floor mat for the debate thursday night does not play to trump's hooliganism, which is what he has tried to do in previous debates, where he has made a show of himself. there is an audience and he can grab the mic and say something. in this debate, the mic will be off when one of the other candidates is speaking. there is no live audience at they can't have notes. i anticipate him fumbling badly on policy issues. however -- however, i think one of the court band-aid factors in this debate is vitality, not policy. i think voters do have concerns

about biden's age. trump's been getting away with this idea he is somehow more vital, more mentally acute than joe biden, which i don't think he is. >> three years younger. three years. >> that's it. three years and he's been babbling this on the campaign trail lately. >> yeah. with regard to turning off the microphones, you know, i think i know why they decided to do that. let's take a look. >> okay. >> vote now and ensure you let people know -- i'm not going to answer the question. >> why would he answer that question? >> will you shut up, man? >> who is on your list, joe? >> gentlemen. >> you know, every time i hear that, "will you just shut up, man?" the whole thing is pretty funny.

i wonder if we will see any of that from joe biden this time. what would you think? >> i don't think he wants to go there. what we have seen out of his camp, he respects the office. he wants to maintain that presence on stage. it is always hard for anyone to do that around donald trump. remember during her -- hillary clinton's debate with trump, he muttered things under his breath . you know, you should be in jail. >> that was very strange, very concerning to watch. >> but he used it i think ultimately to grow effectively in the election and for the voters. when he went off the rails invited with 2020 and kept attacking biden without letting biden speak, that turned those against him and that debate and he lost those debates in part because of that. i think this time though he will have to contain himself. >> tim o'brien, never contain

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are down 6% by an average of almost $20 compared to last year. same for rental card prices at your destination. in orlando, daily rate down $10 a day. fueling prices too with gas prices down $0.12 nationwide. hotel rates are in line with last year. dining out as well as concert and movie tickets, all pricier than this time last year. ashby choosing to road trip to take advantage of the gas prices and because of the love for the outdoors and the price, choosing to camp and cook. >> prices are astronomical right now. >> reporter: avoid peak holidays like july 4th and labor day and try to travel midweek. midweek. store >>