on this new hour, iona presley on her plan to combat trump's blueprint for a second try, and why she's getting involved in the most expensive house race in u.s. history. did louisiana just open a door for christian nationalist? what could come next? the new documentary that is using comedy to change opinions about abortion. let's do it.

we have talked at length on this program about project 2025, the heritage foundation's nightmarish plan to transform the nation into a trump dystopia. the 900 page project would provide trump a maga blueprint for a potential second term. yesterday, my colleagues had the chance to actually sit down with kevin roberts, president of the heritage foundation, and the top architect for press operation 2025. here's how that interview began. >> you reject the assertion that this is a plan that was cooked up specifically for the second coming of the trump administration? >> we couldn't do that, because we are nonpartisan. i would have been thrilled if president biden and his team asked for a briefing. >> setting aside the laughable claim that the conservative think tank would have been

thrilled to work with joe biden, route the interview, roberts laid out a series of talking points that made him sound indistinguishable from donald trump. like, say, wanting to remove state department employees and replacing with maga loyalists . >> we are going to fire someone, and the number needs to be more than 50,000, considering they are more than 2 million federal employees. it's time they are put in the driver seat. >> we will clean out all of the corrupt actors in our national security and intelligence apparatus, and there are plenty of them. >> there is, of course, his demonization of immigrants. >> were going to have the biggest mass deportation system in america ever. >> we will begin the largest deportation operation in american history. >> you are going to go and start a new migrant fight league. only migrants. >> and other was abortion. >> way we talking about --

>> i just want to know. >> there's legislation that allows abortion happened three days before they are born. >> they have legislation that can execute the baby after birth. it is crazy. >> there is no truth to that whatsoever. we should call it out for what it is. both have refused to commit to accepting the results of the election regardless of who wins. >> is your organization going to accept the results of the 2024 election? >> yes, if there is a massive fraud like in 2020. >> will you commit tonight to accepting the results of the election? >> if it's an honest election, i would. >> most revealing part of that interview is roberts long plans for trump. >> the work of the heritage foundation was to institutionalize trumpism. it's a new version of conservativism. whether someone likes it or not, i happen to like it. >> just hours after that

interview, trump give a crowd of supporters in d.c. a preview about what roberts was talking about. >> in four years, you don't have to vote, okay? in four years, don't vote. i don't care. but we will have it all straightened out, so it will be much different. >> in four years, you don't have to vote. that is the so-called institutionalize trumpism roberts is talking about. providing the gop a blueprint for ending democracy in this country. the heritage foundation can claim that they are not tied to any candidate, but they have found the avatar for their dark and dangerous vision for america, and it is donald j trump. iona presley is a founding member of a task force designed to stop project 2025. she joins me now. it's great to see you again. let's start with your work on

this task force. called project 2025 a, quote, far right manifesto. walk us through what you and your colleagues are actively doing to fight back against this dangerous plan. >> it is a frightening blueprint . it is a policy plan. it's really a transition plan. with these dangerous extremist, with a proven time and time again is that they do not make threats. they make promises. we have to do everything to stop project 2025 from becoming a reality, because it will ostensibly dismantle the federal government as we know it. it will eliminate the department of education. will continue this march towards a national ban on abortion, so banning bodies. a nation of forced birth. banning books, banning language. the word abortion. diversity, equity, and inclusion. defunding title i. critical

title i funding for k-12 schools. and of course, massive firings of dedicated civil servants and replacing them with trump loyalists. when i say this is a transition plan, this is a transition plan. they already have online portals established to test the loyalties of people so they can replace dedicated public servants with trump loyalists. and also, i have to just call out the fact that the heritage foundation -- they are saying the quiet part out loud. they deny that abortion is healthcare, one thing they cannot deny is the harm that they intend to cause. they always telegraphed their harm. and so this task force will be joining the work of spreading awareness. we will be hosting briefings, we will be hosting hearings. i think it's really critical that we have congressional oversight and accountability here, the congress is leveraging every tool available. i also want to talk about, although this extreme blueprint

mostly implicates federal agencies, it also implicates the courts. again, the supreme court, which is far right, imbalanced, engaging in impropriety often, and with the same mega-donors who bankrolled this heritage foundation, project 2025 blueprint, it's the same donors doing the work of influencing judges like clarence thomas and alito, and they want to also grow the bench and see more justices just like them. project 2025 cannot happen unless donald trump is elected, and unless the supreme court are enlisted to make real this right-wing blueprint, this policy and transition plan, which is really reminiscent of mccarthyism, fascism, and -- again, it is incredibly frightening. people should be afraid, but

they need to lean in, pay attention, and we are going to shine a light. light is the best disinfectant. >> he recently talked about the link on project 2025 and the scandals as you were just alluding to there. but i want to get your reaction to senator lindsey graham slamming the idea of a code of ethics for the highest court. take a look at this. >> the worst thing that could happen is for the united states senate and the house to determine what cases the supreme court hears. it was a constitutional overreach. they are trying to micromanage the roberts court. >> you talked about the importance of the presidential election, we should not lose sight of how important congress is, and control of congress comes this november as well. i mean, is it dangerous to lose sight of the battle for congress when you have people like senator lindsey graham rejecting any oversight from congress so that it can help implement something like in project 2025 and trumpism? >> the race is incredibly

important, because what we see are -- is a coordinated, unrelenting extremist agenda where people have been enlisted from state legislatures to congress, all the way to the supreme court, which has repeatedly ruled against the will of the majority of the people. they have been legislating from the bench. so we need a strict code of ethics. in my opinion, we also need term limits. we need to expand the bench, and we need to be a thorough and investigative whether there's been any impropriety. >> there is a source that tells nbc news the former president trump will likely not attend the classified documents hearings on monday or tuesday. given how much eileen cannon, the judge in that case, has been stonewalling or slow rolling the case, and then you hear somebody like roger's own, who has insinuated that eileen

cannon is in trump's prop pocket. how concerned are you about the rise of people like eileen cannon and other potential judges that trump appointed, doing business on trump's behalf and delaying justice for the sake of political expediency, perhaps? >> very concerned. and it is just simply more of the same. have enlisted the courts to operate with the absence of justice as co-conspirators and active accomplices in this far right extremist agenda. >> congresswoman, please stick around. next, we are going to talk about a very important house race in new york that is officially the most expensive in history tanks to an influx of pro-israel cash. pro-israel listen. horsepower keeps you going, but torque gets you going. ♪ ♪ [ engine revving ] oh now we're torquin'! the dodge hornet r/t. the totally torqued-out crossover. [coughing] copd hasn't been pretty. it's tough to breathe

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>> this tuesday, the most expensive primary race in u.s. history will be decided in new york's 16th congressional district. lyrical action groups funded by political mega-donors are

joining forces to unseat incumbent democratic representative jamaal bowman. only they are not backing a republican candidate to do so. they are in fact backing a democratic county executive named george latimer. why, you might ask? this headline helps explain it simply. the american public affairs committee unleashes a record $14.5 million to defeat a critic of israel. amazingly, as a time points out, they almost never mention israel. instead, the ads paint congressman bowman of a disloyal congressman to president biden. they also accuse bowman of generating, quote, controversy, chaos, and conspiracy. they called latimer a good progressive pro-israel candidate and said bowman refuses to support israel and what they call, quote, a just war. now, why would a right-wing pro- israel political action committee spend so much money on a race, but avoid mentioning israel in their advertising if

that's what they care about? well, polling in the district shows that a plurality of democratic voters prefer a candidate who does in fact support a cease-fire, which is bowman's position. the poll also shows that 50% of democratic voters believe the u.s. is giving too much aid for israel and a plurality believe the u.s. is giving too little humanitarian relief to the palestinians. the irony here is that bowman did not come to congress focusing on support for palestinians or even criticism of israel. in the past, he has voted in favor of israel, such as a bill for funding israel's iron dome. as politico reported this week, it was a trip sponsored by j street that opened bowman's eyes to the reality of israel's military occupation. it was a trip that bowman called a transformational moment. that evolution has now led to an unprecedented spending barrage i outside political groups and donors, some of whom

are backers of donald trump, looking to make an example out of bowman for simply criticizing israel. it's also how former trump opponent hillary clinton joined forces with many trump donors by endorsing george latimer's bid to unseat him. while we rightfully worry about the fate of our democracy, should donald trump win this fall's election, we also need to be clear about the sorry state of our democracy right now. what does it say about our political system when republican mega-donors, hillary clinton, and big crypto donors can join forces and cobble together $15 million to oust a former middle school principal from congress for calling for a cease-fire in gaza, a position that a plurality of his constituents actually agree with and want. back with me again is congresswoman presley and fellow supporter of jamaal bowman's

campaign. thank you for sticking around for us. obviously as i just said, we are concerned about the state of our democracy should donald trump win the outcome this fall. what does the race tell us about the state of our democracy right now? >> i am just so glad to be here in new york. i have been in the new york's 16th all day today. i was in faith houses earlier today, i was in small businesses, and it was just -- i am very encouraged by the number of people i met to understand what is at stake in this election in the new york's 16th. they see jamaal bowman for exactly who he is, and that is someone who leads with love, who centers the people of the new york's 16th, who recognizes that our destinies are tied, from massachusetts to new york to gaza to haiti. he sees every child as his own. there are freedoms and our destinies are tied. he recognizes leadership as an educator, as an advocate, and as an effective legislator, as someone who is valued by this caucus, who has been endorsed

from everyone from hakeem jeffries to elizabeth warren. but the endorsement that matters the most is that the people, i know that if he has earned their trust and their confidence, and their partnership, because he has proven -- he is someone that i work with shoulder to shoulder on issues relative to trauma informed schools, restorative justice, addressing the baby formula shortage, paid sick leave for rail workers. jamaal bowman is pro-peace, pro- humanity, pro-justice. and i am grateful that he is my partner and my movement brother . i will do everything in my power to make sure that he is decisively returned in the same way that he was decisively elected the first time by multigenerational, multiracial movements and deliver to congress by the people to do exactly what he has done. >> in the washington post,

wrote a piece titled, no one should be surprised the black politician is the canary in the coal mine. shut up or else is the message a pro israel lobby is sending two black lawmakers who are critical of what is happening in gaza. i just want to know from your experience -- is that a message you are getting about the war in gaza? >> i would say that jamaal bowman, like many progressive black lawmakers before him, is a target because of the struggle and progressive stances he has taken across the board. he is a disruptor of the status quo because he wants us to advance solutions that go as far and as deep as the hurt. he has never forgotten the plot, and the plot is the people. he leaves a glove, he centers the people, he is an effective legislator. he is a loving and dedicated husband and father. he is an effective advocate. and it was an incredible educator. again, this is a candidate who is pro-peace, humanity, and

justice. i am very heartened by the energy and the response, and i'm going to continue to be out there in new york's 16th making the case and reminding people of the good work that jamaal bowen has done. i just want to remind folks that just because we have titles, you know, it doesn't -- it doesn't change our vulnerability. you know, what do you do when your very existence is the resistance? you dig deep and you put your head down and you keep doing the work, and you don't lose sight of what matters worse, and that is the people. that is exactly what jamaal bowman has done. >> as you are very well aware, race has played a great role in this campaign. he said that bowman has, quote, and ethnic benefit over him. latimer also accused bowman of representing dearborn, michigan,

a reference to a city with a large arab and muslim population. are you worried that if a young black candidate like bowman is ousted with this money from congress, that this can hurt democrats in november with constituencies they definitely need to win the presidency come november in a state like michigan? >> i am worried about the impact of the absence of the voice of jamaal bowman and his affected leadership and advocacy. and what that will mean. but i don't have time to worry, because i have to work. we have seen over and over again that organized people beats organized money. the power of the people has always been greater than the people in power. some people might think that's an odd statement coming from a member of congress in a position of power, i believe jamaal bowman is in the seat he is in because he recognizes where the real power lies, and that is with the people. >> the slogan he has been using, it's the many verses the money.

as a class element here. the majority of members of congress are millionaires. jamaal bowman was a middle school principal before entering congress. is there room for working-class politicians or even in the democratic party if people like jamaal bowman are squeezed out by big money, big dark money? >> the electorate philip decisively said he was in congress, and i believe it will do it again with a mandate that we do need people that create diversity of perspective and thought and lived experience that the people closest to the pain should be the closest to the power, driving and informing the policymaking. as a black man in america, as a parent, you know, who worries and fights for his children, you know, he has been closest, and that is exactly why we need him, because he brings that perspective, that understanding of the nuance, the complexity of the intersectionality of these issues and remains laser focused on advancing solutions

that go as broad and as deep. listen, at the end of the day, who you vote for determines was elected. the policies determine everything. who lives, dies, who survives, who thrives. >> always a pleasure. we appreciated as always. >> vote, june 25th. >> louisiana's -- has it opened the door for christian nationalists in this country? y. farxiga can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract, or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. ♪ far-xi-ga ♪

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foundational documents of our state and national government. the legal fight is on. most legal groups plan to sue, doing so together and saying in a statement that this will result in unconstitutional religious coercion of students were legally required to attend school, and that's a captive audience for school sponsored religious messages. joining me now, louisiana's executive director linda odom's, who is out there fighting this law. who authored this bill. we should note that she is also one of the prime backers of her states bill prohibiting teachers from discussing gender identity or even sexual orientation in schools. listen to what she said. >> our students will be able to look up and see that there is a moral standard that god set forth for man to live by. one that is grounded in the constitution and the foundation of this country. >> your response to that?

>> it couldn't be further from the truth. the reason is because the foundations of our constitution are actually freedom, equality, and the right to be able to choose your faith or have no faith at all. and what gives us the power to do that is actually the establishment clause. what that says is, that the government cannot prefer one religion over another. the government cannot prefer religion as to non-religion, and the government must remain neutral. and so the thing that i find hypocritical about this legislator's comments is that the very same legislature that seeks to control whether or not children learn american history and the history of oppression specifically in the state of louisiana, is the same hypocritical body that wants to indoctrinate our children, codify christianity, and make it so that our children have absolutely no context for those words. because text without context is dangerous.

>> let's talk about how you fight this in court. people have argued this case has already been settled. louisiana is back you're trying to push this through, notably these posters paid for through donations, not taxpayer dollars or state funds. you see that is a tactic from republicans to try and skirt these legal challenges they may have learned from previous attempts? >> absolutely. this comes out of the playbook from the 1980 case against graham where the government did the exact same thing. he tried to mandate posting the 10 commandments and they tried to say that if it were paid for, these posters, by a private donor or by not the state, that that would somehow skirt this test that the stone versus graham case required. in that case was a simple test. a lemon test. it says, number one, you look at the intent of that piece of legislation, and if the intent is secular or religious, you

look at that. you say, okay. if the religious doctorate is something that could be thought of as anything other than religious -- in this particular case, this is religious scripture, so there's no other way to interpret it and there's no other way that we believe that this court can interpret it. there has been no federal court since the 1980s up until present day that has said that putting a version of the 10 commandments, and any version of the 10 commandments, and public schools is legal, and there's a specific region for that. public schools and families are mandated to attend schools. that means we can't go and then require and mandate them to follow a certain religion or be indoctrinated to a certain religious ideology. and furthermore, we certainly can't mandate which version of the 10 commandments are going to be posted in schools. that's exactly what this governor and this administration is trying to do. and they are actually mandating a version that is not going to be able to be discussed in class, because you can't even

discuss sexual education in class. you can even discuss lgbt rights in class. you can't just cuss anything. we are hamstringing our teachers into a system that is almost impossible for them to operate in. >> as we seen a more conservative movement over the past decade just permeate every aspect of life, you got state lawmakers putting forward hundreds of bills aimed at adding everything public school chaplains to in god we trust signs in school entryways. republican lawmakers in states like texas, oklahoma, utah -- could now follow oklahoma's lead. have republicans in your state just open the door for christian nationalists who are resurging in this country both politically in the wake of donald trump and now culturally and socially? >> yes, absolutely. i want to make very clear that the comments i are making are not anti-christian. i don't want our folks at home to be confused.

i have a faith. that happens to be christianity. but the state of louisiana is a diverse state that as christians, catholics, most of the jewish faith, that has folks of the hindu faith, that has folks of the lutheran and other christian denominations. and those are the folks that are going to be our plaintiff's in this particular action that we are bringing. and what we know is that folks who are on the right, particularly the christian right, they are not just advocating for laws like the 10 commandments. also advocating that women to possess mifepristone for their own health and their own right to have reproductive liberty, they are criminalizing those individuals and women. what we also know is that the same individuals have eliminated parole eligibility. they brought about the death penalty in the state of louisiana. this is pure hypocrisy, and i can say this as a person of faith, the kind of jesus that would require 10 commandments to be posted in the classroom would take free lunch out of

the classroom is a kind of jesus and i don't think any of the believers i know of understand. >> thank you so much. i greatly appreciate your insights. we will continue to follow the story and bring any updates to it that we can. thank you so much. next up, good news for undocumented spouses of u.s. citizens. citizens. you going. ♪ ♪ [ engine revving ] oh now we're torquin'! the dodge hornet r/t. the totally torqued-out crossover. here's to getting better with age.

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the requirements are narrow. they must've lived in the u.s. for 10 years, be married to an american citizen as of june 17th, and they cannot have a criminal record. so what does biden's policy have to do with undocumented people at polling booths? absolutely nothing. republicans are actually conflating it with a 2021 biden executive order on voter registration that has nothing to do with undocumented people. this particular executive order directed federal agencies to increase access to voter registration services and information about voting, and that included expanding multilingual voter registration. but almost as if the biden administration anticipated these future gop attacks, the order specifically said this outreach was, quote, for eligible citizens. in other words, there is no truth holding up these claims from republicans. just pure fear mongering. joining me now is the president

and ceo of global refuge. she is also the former policy director for michelle obama. to have you back on the show. it's great to see you. even if before biden unveiled his new executive order, people like stephen miller, the architect of trump's anti- immigration policies, calling amnesty during a border invasion, also referring to a documented immigrants by a derogatory term that we won't use your on the show. i do fight this kind of dangerous misinformation that is so synonymous with the conservative right and the republican party? >> there's got to be a proactive aggressive campaign to fight fiction with fact. the reality is that we are in the predicament of the anti- immigration kind of sentiment we are seeing, not just out of stephen miller's mouth, but political leaders across the nation. and this is where i think there is a real opportunity to be clear about what president biden's executive order does.

it is one of the most significant executive actions we have seen in the immigration space. it would allow for families to remain united. it is exactly the type of bold leadership that aligns with public sentiment. overwhelmingly, american support a pathway to citizenship for those who meet certain criteria. i think it's important to highlight that the people that this would impact have been here in the u.s. on average for about 23 years. they are husbands, their wives, their husbands, they are daughters, they are our long- term neighbors that it become regular contributors to the fabric of our communities. >> trump has posted on his failed social media platform that he is planning to blame a handful of horrific murders, allegedly by undocumented migrants, on biden during this week's upcoming presidential debate. obviously, it's eight absurd

and consistently debunked claim. we know factually and statistically that immigrants do not commit crimes at higher rates than nativeborn americans. does president biden have a moral, a higher moral responsibility to challenge this talking point, aside from just his concerns for political reasons? >> i think there is absolutely an opportunity. as you said, the data has been crystal clear. i know some have claimed that the border communities are less safe than the communities on the interior. a study has been very, you know, distinctly clear about the fact that the 21 counties that border our county are actually safer than comparable interior counties. you look at the top 10 cities that have received the highest number of refugees per capita, whether you are looking at economic crime, violent crime, petty crime, they are actually safer than those that have not. and i think this is where i hope president biden comes out making the case, explaining that our country faces a

demographic cliff that, unless we find more immigrants to bolster our economy, to help take care of our children and our parents, to achieve medicare and social security staying afloat, and to frankly make our country safer -- i think this is where there is a normative imperative. and there's a responsibility to the american public to lead. do not politically glance them, to not scapegoat and blame immigrants for the fentanyl crisis, but to be clear about the fact that it's not just the right thing to do, but the smart thing for our country, to remain a welcoming nation. >> you are at the white house would biden announced his immigration policy. how do you balance seeing this as a win while also taking into biden's executive order earlier this month that restricts legal human rights to asylum in this country. how do you explain that juxtaposition on immigration policy? >> such an important question. the last few weeks immigration policy have been the tale of

executive actions and is certainly left a few of us with a case of whiplash. i think the biden administration is trying to walk a tight rope between keeping our borders secure and humanely responding to people who are fleeing the most dire of circumstances in their countries. i run an immigration nonprofit. it is completely reasonable to want robust systems in place to know who is coming to our country, to make sure they are vetted. but we also have a duty to protect people who need our help the most. and so i think that is where we have an opportunity to explain to the american public that we want an orderly, structured system. we want to make sure people aren't gaming the asylum system, we also want to make sure that we are true to our values, to our legal responsibility, that this is codified in u.s. law. it also, we are building legal pathways that allow for people to not have to come to the southern border.

that's where we need to make the affirmative case. the system has been broken. i appreciate the fact that president biden is taking action to congress has failed to, but i think it is important to acknowledge that we have lived in a broken immigration system for a long while, and political leaders need to lead us out of this. >> always a pleasure. thank you so much. >> thanks for having me. next up, two people in a documentary are with us next. n can neuriva support your brain health? mary, janet, hey!! (thinking: eddie, no frasier, frank... frank?) fred! how are you?! fred... fuel up to 7 brain health indicators, including your memory. join the neuriva brain health challenge. -cologuard®? -cologuard. cologuard! -screen for colon cancer. -at home, like you want.

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>> i think i need to take the second part of my career to expose the hypocrisy of what is happening and celebrate these people that are doing good work. i literally called every single comedian i knew and said, i know you had an abortion. and i know that because you got to have that abortion, you got to pick your path. >> are big thing is to let doctors and staff and patients feel like they can live in the light. making it normal. >> that is a clip from a new documentary that follows a movement to bust the stigma associated with abortion. as you heard, one powerful but unexpected way to do so is through comedy. no one asked you follows liz winstead and her comedy activism group to abortion clinics throughout the u.s. it also offers vivid, intimate portraits of others at the heart of the reproductive rights movement. joining us now are two people

featured in the documentary, and cohost of the feminist skills podcast and cocreator of the daily show, and cohost of the feminist kills podcast. it's great to have both of you with us. such an important topic, perhaps one most people would not think of approaching through comedy right away. explain to us why you decided to use comedy in this way to connect with people and try to destigmatize abortion? >> i think my history sort of showed me that comedy works. i cocreated the daily show, and exposing hypocrisy and telling stories through humor got people to pay attention and listen and look deeper. one thing that was missing in my entire conversation was talking about abortion to that same lens. networks didn't really want to do it. people were like, you know what we need? an abortion comedian. i decided i would form an organization that would help do that so that we could make the

same strides and bust that stigma using comedy the way we have other issues. >> one of the important parts is the film zeros in on crisis emergency centers. again, a very important part in this conversation. you personally experienced it when you are seeking one is a young woman. talk to us about that experience and how it relates to this movie. >> the thing about crisis pregnancy centers, or fake clinics as we refer to them, is that the whole purpose is to lie to people. he liked people when they are vulnerable. if you have any real privilege, you can avoid them sometimes. i was just out of college and didn't really have much money, so i just was like, a free pregnancy test like a great idea. i found myself in a fake clinic, and they were really trying to railroad me and lie to me into not getting the care that i wanted. it actually frightened me. after i had my experience, the

person was basically trying to stall me. i want this one thing, and they said, come back in a week. that doesn't seem like how abortion should work. i ultimately ended up having an abortion in a hospital, because i don't know who the standalone clinics are and i don't know who to trust. that was unfortunate, because we really go and work with independent abortion providers and work with the kind of clinics that i needed to be at when i got mine. >> how do you take what you have seen and witnessed in this project and scale it to a larger audience so it is not just through the people who see this movie? is there a larger movement out there of people that are trying to do what you are trying to do and destigmatize abortion? >> i think what happens is, the film covers the sort of larger picture. are podcast every friday covers in depth things that people sometimes only here in the five minute segment, right? but traveling around the country, we've been to 35

states. after doing a comedy and music show where we invite the local activist and the local providers on stage, we have 300, 400 people in a room who here with our community needs. and then after the show, they can sign up and are immediately connected to those people. to be able to do that through programs like that, we have a training program called operation save abortion where we trained over 10,000 people and connected them to local communities so that they can be part of the coalitions that start the ballot initiatives and the clinic escort programs, helping the people that are providing the abortion care and the practical support. we are really big connectors, so that people understand the bigger picture. >> when you think of the kind of work that we do, the community is a good scale. when you are going to a community to help mobilize a community, that has the scale to support your provider and the community. >> when you're talking of numbers of 300, 400 people in all these different settings, it is definitely very impactful on a grassroots level. what have you been learning

from the people that you are presenting and bringing up on stage? what are they telling you about what they are going through, what they are experiencing? >> people have their individual stories, but when you look at the media, red states and blue states -- every red state, what you are seeing now are people, individuals, activist trying to organize ballot initiatives. i think it's really easy when you live in new york to write off places that are not new york or california or portland, oregon, and assume that individuals in that state are not actively working for their rights. you really learn that everyone is out here fighting for their rights. >> then you really learn the story of, no matter how blue or red or whatever you want to call it, abortion access hasn't been available. it wasn't available for long time for a lot of people. i think the big message to everybody is, when you hear the phrase, restore row, we need to do better, because roe really disenfranchised black people, people of color.

we want to do better because we get to a place where people understand that, if you need abortion care, it is so individualized that you can't rubberstamp who should get one. some certain timeframe, some set of obstacles. it just doesn't make sense, and it is cruel. >> what is the call to action between now and november? do you think that congress should have done or could have done something different other than wait for the election, where abortion is certainly on the ballot. it has been already since the overturning of roe. it's mobilized people in other races, but what is a call to action here for members of congress and the democratic party ? >> i think the call to action is, don't talk to the chattering political class to learn the message on abortion. talk to people who have had abortions, talk to the activists on the ground and the people providing the care. people came out of the woodwork to get these ballot initiatives

done. >> in red states, where people think it didn't happen. >> they instigated it. people said enough. silence is no longer valid or helpful. and so start having conversations you can actually talk to people, so you can actually understand how to craft legislation that includes everybody. >> final thoughts on that very same subject. what you think is needed right now? >> we have so much work to do, and it so exciting to see people mobilize on the local level. we need congress to mobilize. we need federal protections for healthcare. we need doctors to not be criminalized for providing safe and effective healthcare. like you said, liz, i need for politicians to talk to the people on the ground who have this work and to talk to doctors. least talk to doctors. a lot of the bills that are coming forward directly target doctors right now. >> it's a dangerous time, but as you said, one of optimism.

hopefully see the changes we deserve coming november. we really appreciate you joining us, and congratulations on your documentary. make sure to catch ayman and be sure to follow us on x and instagram. a quick programming note. tomorrow on the second anniversary of the supreme court's decision to reverse rover he weighed, vice president kamala harris will sit down and exclusive interview, joined by advocate hadley duvall who helped eddie bushehr win re-election. be sure to watch morning joe. until we meet again, i am ayman in new york. have a good night.

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