to prime time weekend, i nicolle wallace. let's get right to the week's top stories. >> we said something to the effect of i don't want people to know we lost, this is embarrassing. figure out, we need to figure it out. i don't know that people know that we lost. >> trump knew all along, right? that he lost. even though he has raged now form four years that the 2020 presidential election was somehow stolen from him. in private, even donald trump has admitted the truth, even donald trump knows the truth. it is the truth he is so embarrassed about that president joe biden, he refers

to him as this guy that beat him . beat him in the 2020 presidential election. today, in a brand-new tape never heard before, we're hearing that private admission in the ex-president's own words, on tape. a remarkable slip of the mask, right? trump's facade, made during one of his half-dozen interviews with writer remine to today, author a brand-new book, chronicling trump's time as the host of the apprentice. we spoke with him yesterday, he told us about this moment. here is that never before heard exchange that came up when trump was talking about former fox news commentator, geraldo rivera. take a listen. >> he was good, he did reach out. he was smart. cunning. he did a good job. >> are you guys still close? >> no, i don't think so. he is, after i lost the

election, i won the election. he called me up three or four times. i did not take his call because i was so busy fighting it. you know, with what was going on. you will. but he called me three or four times and finally i had little time, i called him back and he went on fox and he started talking about the president called. i did call him, i returned his phone call, and he started talking very personally about how i was feeling. how i was doing. and i said, that's the trail. i didn't talk about how i was feeling i just, it was a phone call that lasted very quickly. it is not my deal, not my psychiatrist. but he made it sound like it was such a big deal all i did was return his call. he said the president called, like i am reaching out to him. and i haven't spoken to him since.

>> so despite trump's efforts to put his mask back on, right? too quickly covered up, you heard the truth pour out of him, called me after i lost, geraldo, i mean, i won. that he lost. he lost, he knows it, and speaking conversationally he admitted it on tape. meanwhile, publicly, and even there in that call, disgraced ex-president continues to perpetuate and spread the lie. the lie that has undermined trust and faith in our elections , the american democracy, the lie that his own supporters have bought into, hook, line, and sinker. some of them, the cross cost of their freedom, their liberty. the lie that fueled the supporters into committing a deadly coup against the united states government on january 6th. the lie for which dozens of jumpoff allies have been indicted across several states now. more than half of all republican voters believe the lie. the lie that trump couldn't even keep up in a taped

interview. but now we know. they cult leader doesn't even believe the lie. the mask slipping is where we start the hour with co-editor in chief of variety, author of the new book, we showcased it here yesterday. he is back. apprentice in wonderland, how donald trump and mark burnett took america through the looking glass. back with us. remine, i loved everything about our conversation yesterday. but as a show, we have sought to really understand how the cat -- why has undermined voting rights, almost 400 voter suppression bills have been passed in 48 states in this country predicated on a lie. the january 6th insurrection happens, mike pence doesn't endorse donald trump for first time that has ever happened in our country's history. such a precious piece of reporting amid many other precious pieces of reporting that even trump let the mask

slip with you and said geraldo called me after i lost. just tell me what that moment was like for you sitting across from it? >> we were sitting at the same table. this was in august, 2021. he was very comfortable that day because we were actually watching clips of the apprentice and i think part of the reason why the mask slipped off was that he was remembering his life as an entertainer. he was very amused. he was excited to see himself in the war room and this is all performance art for donald trump. really tries to get into the psyche of who donald trump is. what his motivations are, what he is doing as a politician. because i make the argument that he is not really a politician. and the contestants i talk to say that donald trump is an actor. he played a role on this reality show and as a candidate, pursuing the white house, he also played a role. as president of the united states he also played a role in the slide that he perpetuates is also part of that role. he is acting the part of this aggrieved politician who claims

that the election was stolen from him because he knows that some his base loves. he loves to distort reality and we like the character in alice in wonderland are going down the looking glass in the story where he is creating false narratives to distort the truth and confuse the american public. >> did you follow the january 6th public hearings closely at all? >> i did. >> i ask that because this is part of a pattern and what is so unique about is everything else was a witness, right? so cassidy hutchinson testifies to. alyssa farah testified to walking into the oval office to check on trump and that's when he is watching television and saying i can't believe i lost to the sky. but you have it on tape. and i wonder, you know, i'm going to read to our audience, trump's response to this part of the book and this revelation that we were going to play the tape this is his campaign

spokesperson. after recognizing the importance of the apprentice, it's a significant cultural impact on a global scale, and trump's remarkable role in forever changing the landscape of entertainment, this writer has now chosen to allow trump derangement syndrome to rot his brain like so many other looters losers whose entire existent rolls around trump. what is notable is what is not in the car right? the dog that doesn't bark. no denial that trump knows he lost. >> it is notable and it is also part of the performance art, right. that is outrageous, over-the- top, crazy statement that you would expect from a reality stars. calls people's names, makes up names, creates false narratives it was also interesting about this moment was that the story of why he and geraldo had a falling out traces back to the fact that after they spoke, geraldo went on it was called twitter at the time and said the president will accept the result of the election. donald trump, according to geraldo, that a version of that to him on the phone shortly after the election, and then changed his mind and decided that this election he was going to claim the election was stolen from him and he was going to perpetuate that life

we were talking about. so that is the reason why he stopped talking to geraldo. it all goes back to the fact that he is playing a part. he is pretending, he has created this false narrative and millions of people believe him. >> i mean, i think you have a frame that is really instructive for anyone who is trying to cover trump in this moment. right? because the other mask that you take on is the idea that he ever saw himself as the leader of anything he didn't see himself as the president for going to play another piece of tape that you have given to us exclusively. this is him talking about dennis rodman's acumen to deal with north korean leader, kim jong-un. let me play this. >> dennis was a pretty cool cat, in many ways. i will tell you. he dated madonna when she was the number one person. you've got have something going, right? >> he also showed up because he knew kim very well. >> kim jong-un really liked him.

the judge. and i said, you know, i can get these guys out of our government and central casting they couldn't do anything with kim jong-un. a guy like dennis could. i didn't use dennis but i thought about it a couple of times before i got to know kim jong-un. but dennis would have done a better job than your traditional people, your traditional ivy league people that always do that stuff and have no personality. so kim jong-un like to, he coached basketball, tim. and i asked him about that. he said >> asked kim. >> yeah, i asked him. and whether dennis liked him too. >> i mean, i don't even know if the looking glass does it. i mean, this is someone who murders his own people, this is one of the most brutal dictatorships in the world.

represents the growing threat to this country with the new alliance with britain, and trump is so cavalier about it. he thinks dennis is better than anyone who has studied north korea's nuclear capabilities or understand the geopolitical impact of an alliance with vladimir putin. say more about this primary interview. >> this was a very strange moment in our interview and tamika metal traces back to donald trump saying that because dennis rodman, in the 90s, dated madonna, he is quote, a cool cat. and that is the headspace that he is in, right? it is the wanting to be in the proximity of fame, seeing fame as a currency missing celebrity as a currency. the ultimate currency, and having no qualifications in terms of leadership when he says that dennis rodman is better than these guys from harvard, what he calls central casting and somehow dennis rodman is contested twice on the celebrity apprentice. else with being an alcoholic on the show was known for these very messy antics on the show,

somehow had a better handle on political diplomacy in dealing with kim jong-un than people that our government, who went to harvard, studied what we need to do as, in terms of our government, in terms of making sure that we are handling this in the professional, correct way. it was very charming it was very frightening. and this is what the american public needs to know. this is the way in which donald trump hands diplomacy. this is the way in which he sees his role as president of the united states and it is a continuation of his role as the apprentice. he is the reality show character that is conducting himself in the white house, like a celebrity, pretending to be someone else. >> coming, i've got a question for you. you had extraordinary access to trump. you are, and if i am wrong, i hope someone will call me directly and tell me but are you the only person that i know of who had access to six taped

interviews with donald trump after he lost the 2020 election. sounds like he was forthcoming, it sounds like he let you lead the conversations. if i have any of that wrong please interject. >> he did. we spent a lot of time together. >> what did you make of how easy it was to get to him by simply telling him you know, you are writing about this thing that he is more proud of than anything he did as president. >> it was also strange, right? when we started these conversations it was in may, 2021. and at the time certainly i don't know if most people thought that donald trump would decide to run for president and become nominee again after the insurrection. he was very deflated. but it was very easy to access him, i went to trump tower, there was no one around. i went up the elevator, he was sitting alone in his office. he didn't seem to have a lot of people around him. he seemed very resentful, very lonely, very sad. and he wanted to devote significant amount of time to talking to me.

and a lot of the tape, because i went back and listened, this exclusive footage, he talks about how excited he is to be talking about the apprentice, how much he enjoys it, how happy he is. the reason i got so much access was because this is what he wants to talk about. he is not interested in being commander-in-chief. he is interested in reality tv. >> we are less than a week away from the first presidential debate. president joe biden sharing the stage with the twice impeached, four times indicted now criminally convicted disgraced ex- president. what vice president, harris is saying today about the stark contrast of the biden campaign hopes to make to everyone watching. boring does. boring makes vacations happen, early retirements possible, and startups start up. because it's smart, dependable, and steady. all words you want from your bank. for nearly 160 years, pnc bank has been brilliantly boring

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republicans are glitching out. they can't seem to make up their minds on how to attack president joe biden ahead of the debate who is president biden, really? is he in evil genius, a mastermind who managed to steal a presidential election without leaving behind a shred of evidence? a puppetmaster secretly pulling the strings of political prosecutions in the gap in georgia and ever else? or is he the other thing they attack and for, the other half of the time? is he sleepy joe biden? bumbling elder statesman. somehow incapable of most basic human interactions. we understand he can't be both. of course, in reality, he is neither. for the republican party, the

problem of having to try it both ways is that occasionally, those two contradictory images that president biden run up against each other. after weeks of sharing deceptively manipulative or edited videos in a concerted effort to make sure that as many people as possible think president joe biden is bumbling, people in donald trump's corner are now playing with the new york time policy expectations game. they are now raising the bar so that voters aren't as impressed when president joe biden gets the chance to speak to them directly. the biden campaign is working to communicate with its supporters with its coalition. vice president kamala harris spoke to our colleague about what to expect in the debate. >> joe biden and this debate will make clear the contrast. you know, the many issues in our country in our world that are complex and nuanced, in november of 2024 is binary. and when you look at the

difference, i would ask people to really imagine what the world will be like on january 20th, 2025. on the one hand, you have joe biden who has spent his life and career fighting for the well-being of other people, including healthcare. on the other hand, you have the former president who spent full time, when he was president, trying to get rid of the affordable care act. which, if he is successful as president again, would mean that over 100 million people will be stripped of healthcare coverage. you have, on the one hand, joe biden who under his leadership, bipartisan support for the first meaningful gun safety legislation in 30 years. and on the other hand, the former president who, when speaking of survivors of horrendous gun violence says get over it, and will proud talk about how to the nra about how he did nothing on the issue.

and i could go on and on. i think that the debate is going to make clear the contrast between our president, the current president, who works on behalf of the american people, fights for the american people, and the former president who pretty much spends full time fighting for himself. >> turning our coverage, chief political columnist and the host of the podcast for john hellman is here with a great interview of your own that we will play in the second. iraq and afghanistan veterans of americans broadcast, charlie still with us. let me play some of your conversation with jen o'malley dillon. >> joe biden is going to stand on that stage and he is going to show what he showed in 2020, that he is in this for all the right reasons. he is focused on delivering for the american people and him standing next to donald trump is the best way to show that. i think rules are going to protect the american people from whatever donald trump might

say? of course not, but i do think having this really be serious is what the american people want. i think that joe biden, everyday, is doing the job of being president. this is a great opportunity earlier in the cycle than ever before for the two of them to stand together and for him to talk about what he has done and what he is fighting for. and not having an audience, not having distractions. not having to worry about covid, think all those things are better for the american people and joe biden is going to have a great debate. >> john hamlin, your thoughts? >> look, i would say that they, the biden campaign, dylan, she became chairman that has been recorded since she became chair to step back into the job and she has the last time which will be joe biden's campaign manager. we talked about a lot of stuff. i confronted her with a lot of the concerns and fears and worries that a lot of democrats have right now.

because of the stakes of the election. because some of the things they see, she was confident. she had a really good answers to a lot of the questions. i think on this debate question, the thing that i asked her, nicole, you and i discussed on the air the other day, which is, is it your expectation that the moderators are going to fact check donald trump in real time? or is that going to be joe biden's job. if it is joe biden's job, how do you avoid having this debate turn into joe biden just doing nothing but fact checking because we know that donald trump is just going to spew lies. and she conceded that that was a problem. that over the torrid of lies coming out of donald trump's mouth was obviously a problem for the country and a problem but also dealing with it is a challenge. i think that one of the things they are going to be grappling with their at camp david, really deeply in debate camp in the days ahead between now and next thursday is going to be this issue, how much fact

checking does joe biden try to do? how much does he leave to either the moderators in real time or two the media afterwards because he honestly has a positive message he wants to get out. even a lot of the contrast messaging that he wants to do can be hindered significantly if he spends too much time, following, i am sure, his instinct, which is to call out every lie that donald trump utters because i could be 94% of the things that comes out of trump's mouth. >> paul, your thoughts? >> you know, i think the democrats always make it too complicated. i think when joe biden has to do is stand up and say, you might not like me, but this guy is a whole lot worse. he needs to have planes becoming used to be uncle joe. he is going to do some storytelling but also just to remind people that there is a deep, ethical character integrity contrast here i don't think it is his job to try to fact check donald trump i think it is his job to remain cool and to show leadership and to show stature and show

reasonableness. because really, they are talking, he is talking to two groups. he is talking to democrats saying hey, stay with me. please come out and vote, come out and big numbers. he is talking to independence, and he has to be honest and say hey, i may not be your cup of tea, you may not love me. you may not love democrats but i am better than this guy, who is a disaster, who is a threat to our national security. who is an indicted felon. he really has to stay above this and not try to sell every single policy talking point. because we are also talking to little to no information voters. i think he can do that while showing that he is a good man and donald trump is a piece of garbage. >> charlie sykes? >> well, this is going to be an immensely important, immensely influential debate, which is unfortunate because i think it is going to be a show. substance is going to be battered, going to be beaten. if anybody thinks that there is

an intelligent discussion of policy, think that is somewhat naove. donald trump is going to be up there with a fire hose of insults, interruptions, and bs and even though his microphone will be muted, i think he is going to be trying to throw joe biden off. paul is right, think the people are going to be looking at this in terms of like can we trust joe biden? and i think that this is, unfortunately, this is not, i don't feel like i'm going out on a limb when i say this is going to be the worst and the dumbest presidential debate in american history. it will be neither enlightening, nor m.o. bling. because donald trump is not going to be up there, he is not going to be discussing student loan debt, he is not going to be talking about, he is not going to be talking about healthcare policy. he doesn't know anything about these policies. he doesn't care. he will just simply be flinging things. and i understand the political necessity for joe biden to

exceed expectations. and i understand why he is doing it and how he needs to expose donald trump. but part of me also thinks that, you know, standing up there with donald trump as a convicted felon and treating him as if he is a legitimate normal presidential contender does normalize this, this prospect. but it is what it is. and so unfortunately we are all going to be analyzing it not in terms of debating points. nobody is going to confuse this with the lincoln-douglas debates. it is not even the kennedy- nixon debate. we are all going to be evaluating the show, who turned in the best performance in the show? we need to keep focus on the stakes, the issues here, and how much, how important this election is. and yet, we are now being sucked into a reality show. and donald trump knows how to behave during a reality show. or how to misbehave. i am only hoping that there will be a moment in which

donald trump's behavior is so erratic, in which he loses his cool, and then joe biden can turn to him and say hey, whatever you think of me, do you really want to give this guy control of the nuclear button again? i may be old, but he is old, too, and he is crazy and you can see it with your own eyes. , i know you've got an issue . charlie sykes, go ahead. >> i am still stunned on a panel that includes me and you, nicole, two of the most profane people i know, charlie sykes, nice charlie sykes from wisconsin, charlie sykes who would say use that profanity on the air. i am stunned by this, number one, number two, the prediction of this being the dumbest most idiotic, whatever, all those agitators. i think you have forgotten the republican debate in 2016 that revolved around donald trump and talking about their size of

their respective . no matter what you think about this debate, it won't be that bad. >> i mean general election. >> okay, fine, all right. maybe. but i think the third thing, and this is, i have a lot of respect and a lot of time for the argument that by doing this debate at all with joe biden is normalizing donald trump and that there was a case for them to say, well we are not standing on stage with donald trump. i think the case morally, the case ethically, you can make that argument. i do think politically that if joe biden had decided not to be donald trump and give the freedom of the election that trump has, which is me strong, you week. and the fact that at least in we have a very tight race here, i don't think anyone is really ahead. trump is not losing right now. and i think the biden campaign

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i'm officially done switching. (vo) new and existing customers get iphone 15 on us when they trade in any iphone. verizon there might be only one thing more alarming than what has become the near medieval siege on our country's tradition of respect for the rule of law. it is the fact that many americans, regrettably, but understandably, have, after all these years of trump and his allies attacking it, grown numb to it or view it as a new norm, maybe it is an active self preservation for some. maybe it is easier to tune it all out or voice on conservative media spits out such venom toward the men and women of doj or the f vi. but the temptation to register the lies being told about the justice system, about the fbi simply is white noise or

politics as usual, in our view, represents, as great a threat to democracy at the lies being told themselves. as an example, consider what the disgraced convicted ex- president told the crowd in wisconsin on tuesday. >> the avs rages charges in york for a corrupt creation of crooked joe biden and his group, and they really weaponized, what they did was they weaponized the department of justice. they weaponized all the white house. >> no they didn't. trump committed a crime and the people who helped him do so, some of them went to jail, some of them received immunity. they testified in a jury of his peers convicted him. it is all accountable by a local prosecutor who worked completely independently from the department of justice. full stop but for you or i might just dismiss this as a campaign speech, maga december, riling up the base, it's just that. trump supporters here those words and with january 6th as

example, open to acting violently. it is how trump and his allies are today priming trump supporters for what will be nothing less than a hostile takeover of the department of justice. should trump prevail in november, turning around the very instruments to use to keep trump in check into political weapons. and don't take our word for it, they are saying it out loud. trump ally, fellow comic, steve bannon, has been open about the plan to prosecute high-ranking doj officials like merrick garland, and what he describes as, quote, retribution. of course, when it comes to unfounded attacks against the people serving at the end of justice, steve bannon's warmongering is more like chapter 10 in the years long saga on this front. one could easily argue the

temperate one started during the obama presidency. if you have never heard or you forgot what fast and furious is outside of the context of the major motion picture franchise, then you successfully avoided or forgot about that the two in american history. to jog your memory, operation fast and furious was an ill-fated gun tracing program related to dangerous mexican drug cartels. the operation went wrong when a u.s. border patrol agent was tragically killed. two guns from the operation was found at the scene. attorney general at the time, mariculture, provided lawmakers with thousands of pages of documents only to become the first ever sitting cabinet official in our country's history to ever be held in contempt of congress. then, a 19 month doj i.t. investigation found zero evidence that any of doj's top leaders knew of, or thought to cover up the death of the scandal. but the damage had been done. the train had left the station, as they say. the concerted breakdown of trust

between conservatives, right- wing media, and our institutions, especially the department of justice was set in motion. and result, all these years later, the convicted felon, the presumptive republican party nominee, running openly on going to war with the department of justice on day one, it is through this wider lens, this longer view of our political history that we examine trump's near daily and escalating attacks on the rule of law with our next guest. joining our conversation, former attorney general, eric waller is here. thank you so much for making time for us today. >> thanks for having me, nicole. didn't want to review fast and furious but that is probably a good place to start this conversation. >> and i went, i would write about it myself. i've never said this on tv but i first read in when i had written a novel and a chris

wallace was a friend of mine, he invited me to come onto the program as a panelist to mention the book and he said we are talking about fast and furious and i said what is that? he said oh, read and, our audience is really fired up about it. i remember googling and reading it and it is good of an example as any of the injection of politics, pulling the levers of congressional allies to do something that had never been done before and then softening the terrain of conservative media and conservative activists. i wonder what you make of what trump is promising to do in his second term to the department that you once led. >> yeah, to a department i once led and that i love dearly. i spent 20 years of my career at the justice department, starting off with just a line lawyer in the justice department, coming straight out of law school. and it is a tradition in the department that regardless of who is in charge politically, the department uses its power in an apolitical way. i am very concerned about what the former president says he is going to do, steve bannon says

what he is going to do. and i take them at their word. i don't think they learned from the first term. they will point a compliant attorney general. but beyond that they now understand that they will have a compliant deputy attorney general. they will have a compliant united states attorneys and they will get these compliant u.s. attorneys hiring power so they can appoint a compliant assistant united states attorneys and they will do the things that they have said that they are going to do. open investigations against political opponents. they will use the law and ways that is inconsistent with the entrapment, the way in which the criminal justice department is supposed to operate. this is something that i stink should be a prime campaign issue. we are talking about rule of law in this country, which really serves as the basis, the foundation for all that we hold near and dear in america. >> it is the area where trump's current advisers have spent the most time and energy on the

architecture of dismantling and reassembling as a political weapon. and one of the things i know for my time in government is that other than the military for the people, people like yourself who have served in the department of justice have zero appetite for politics. and i agree with you, this should be a first, second third issue for the voters but how do you bridge that gap between a department where the very essence of pushing back against trump is to not be political, but the most effective way to reject what trump wants to do to the department is a political solution of not voting for him. how do you bridge that gap? >> yeah, i don't think there necessarily is a gap. to say that you are for a neutral justice department, that you are for a democracy and you are for the rule of law, those, to me, seemed to be apolitical things that can be injected into the political sphere to say, you know, we have one candidate who will stand for those nonpolitical, apolitical, pro-democracy

measures and we have on the other side a candidate who is bound and determined to subvert the system to his will. subvert the system so his supporters and himself, as well, are not subject to rules in the way that other american citizens are. yeah, i think that people who oppose the former president and got to really kind of get over it and understand the battlefield on which we are now operating. the terrain on which we are now operating. the normal rules, in a lot of ways, simply do not apply it means that we are going have to be more up front. we are going have to be more forceful. it doesn't mean that we have to, you know, duplicate that what they say they're going to do, the tactics they are going to use. but i think being, just as i said, more forceful. more open about what the dangers are. fear is a big motivator. in 2008, barack obama used hope and

change other thing to galvanize huge numbers of people. i think that fear used appropriately as something that can be deployed here. because the fear is of losing our democracy. the fear is losing our freedoms the fear is losing our ability, women's ability to make reproductive decisions. that is a fear that i think should be legitimately used by those who oppose the former president. he is certainly using fear, illegitimate fears to try to galvanize his supporters. >> all right, i couldn't agree with you more. i think that is the frame around which the campaign must be waged, right? and i think liz cheney articulates, we can go back to having policy fights after the threat of trump and the fear of what he would do to our democracy has abated. i wonder where you, where you would sort of put all of the revelations. the thing that is different

this time around. we were so dependent on investigative journalists in '16 to break stories about trump's trespasses. it is now on a website. i mean, it is all billing out of his mouth, somewhat incoherently. how do you break through to people who aren't paying attention? or look at it as well, both sides do it. how do you sort of jeweled people into understanding the threat that he poses to our democracy? >> you know, i think that we have to use tangible examples. and it means that if it doesn't break through the first time you say it for the second time or the third time, you say it a fourth time and tangible examples, make people, and the most digestible way possible, familiar with what the charges are in the pending cases make people familiar with what the results were of the case that was ultimately tried in new york city. when it comes to reproductive rights, as you have done on the show, i think very compelling. have women come on and tell their stories. have people come on and talk

about how it is more difficult to vote in certain parts of the country. again, having real people talk about how the things that they have done and will do will have an impact on their lives, contextualize this in a way that makes it real for the american voter. i figured it wasn't a big deal. then i saw my doctor and found out i have afib, and that means there's about a 5 times greater risk of stroke. symptoms like irregular heartbeat, heart racing, chest pain, shortness of breath, fatigue, or light- headedness can come and go. but if you have afib, the risk of stroke is always there. if you have one or more symptoms, get checked out. holding off on seeing a doctor won't change whether or not you have afib. but if you do, making that appointment can help you get ahead of stroke risk. contact a doctor and learn more at notimetowait.com lawmakers are trying to shut down planned parenthood.

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not only have companies not demonstrated that there platforms are safe for kids, but there is growing evidence of harm that is deeply concerning to me, not just as surgeon general but as a parent myself. no warning labor would help parents understand these risks. any parents don't know that those risks exist. >> and urgent warning there call for congressional action from the u.s. surgeon general today for a warning label on social media platforms about how they contribute to the mental health emergency among young adults in this country.

in a new york times op-ed today, dr. v beck murphy cites evidence of tobacco studies that show warning labels can increase awareness and change behavior. quote, there is no seatbelt for parents to click, no helmet to snap in place, no assurance that trusted experts have investigated and ensured that these platforms are safe for our kids. there are just parents and kids trying to figure it out on their own, pitted against some of the best product engineers and most well resourced companies in the world. joining our coverage, pediatric intensive care position, professor of pediatrics, dr. michael anderson. you have been a friend of the show for a long time. it is very nice to see you. i was so happy to see this, every parent i know struggles with this. when kids start moving around, they have devices. but it is a constant struggle to keep them off it and to monitor what they are watching on it. weigh in. >> i give dr. murphy such

credit for this op-ed and just for the notion of a warning label. and you're right, he compares it to come we have thousands of people from not having their seatbelt on. now we have seatbelt warnings because thousands of people died from tobacco, now we have tobacco warnings i know it is a more nuanced discussion because we have the freedom of speech, of course. but just talk to parents, talk to kids in this op-ed, dr. murphy who does a lot of town halls to look into kids would just talks of their anguish that they don't feel good about their bodies when they are on social media. they are on an average almost five hours a day. and that this is adding to the crisis that is pediatric mental health. i was honored to be a part months ago, doing a lot of time to it. it is still a crisis in talking about social media or helping parents of social media isn't the only answer. i think dr. murphy's reasons are really important. it shows that we have to talk about. >> the point about sunscreen

and seatbelts and other things with warnings is so interesting because the platforms are designed and literally engineered to be addictive and you go back and look at tobacco. it wasn't just that they found that tobacco caused cancer. a lot of the legal success hinged on the knowing addition of a >> additives. and that is the parallel, right? it is being engineered for addiction. the algorithms are being engineered for stickiness. do you at least lay onto the social media platforms as much liability as tobacco had for the addictive piece. >> i think dr. murphy's warning label idea is going to gain some traction. i also know this legislation working its way through congress now. the online safety act gets just a what you are talking about, nicole. is the algorithms, the incessant perpetual scrolling. it is getting kids addicted and the long-term mental health effects are really, really serious. it is going to be a whole,

society, parents, asking questions, helping take control of social media. it is pediatricians. my favorite nationals that deal with this on a daily basis. but boy, we also have to look to lawmakers just like ai, just like big challenges facing our nation to help us figure out what are the rules and regulations that have to govern this? because dr. murphy ends about talking about how we protect our kids is really the moral indicator. >> this has been prime time we could, please tune to deadline white house and all of our prime time shows weekdays on msnbc. ♪ you don't... ♪ ♪ you don't have to worry... ♪ the virus that causes shingles is sleeping... in 99% of people over 50. and it could strike at any time. think you're not at risk? wake up.

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it's an idea whose time has come.

here we go. it is noon here in washington. jen is on a will to ask a well deserved vacation and i michael steele. or somebody that loves to scream about a rigged system donald trump is getting a lot of help from a judge in florida. andrew wiseman and lisa ribbon are here to tell us what is going on. ahead of the first presidential debate, joe biden is preparing at camp david well trump is ranting and raving on the campaign trail. later, wild revelations from a new book about trump's time at the apprentice. the author will join me in just a few minutes and he has tapes.