here we go. it is noon here in washington. jen is on a will to ask a well deserved vacation and i michael steele. or somebody that loves to scream about a rigged system donald trump is getting a lot of help from a judge in florida. andrew wiseman and lisa ribbon are here to tell us what is going on. ahead of the first presidential debate, joe biden is preparing at camp david well trump is ranting and raving on the campaign trail. later, wild revelations from a new book about trump's time at the apprentice. the author will join me in just a few minutes and he has tapes.

here is a question that you don't normally hear a candidate get asked that one of his final campaign stops before a presidential debate. >> are you worried about going to jail? >> no. >> are you worried about going to jail? that's a fair question. after all, the debate is on thursday and trump 'sentencing is exactly two weeks after that. let's hear the answer. >> no i'm not worried at all we have a corrupt group of people. it is really working out. we just got the highest poll numbers we ever had. they cheat so much 10 points is not enough. we need to get more. if we don't win the country is

finished. >> allow me to translate. if we don't win then i'm worried about going to prison. he should be worried. as serious as the trump convictions are the more serious are still hanging out there. for all of this talk about a corrupt system he's getting a lot of help for now. take a look at exhibit a. after judge aileen canon was assigned to the classified documents case, two of her more experience colleagues asked her to hand it off to a more experienced judge. she refused. then she has exhibited hostility to prosecutors, handled pretrial motions slowly and indefinitely postponed the trial.

it's almost as if the judges that encouraged her to decline the case knew how this would play out. judge cannon has proven herself to be so biased in his favor she is effectively putting the prosecution on trial. on friday she heard a challenge by the defense team claiming that special counsel jack smith's appointment was unconstitutional. if that argument sounds far- fetched to you you would not be wrong. as many legal experts would tell you it is the kind of longshot challenge that would be thrown out by any other judge. it is without basis in law. it's without precedent, and it has been shot down by similar judges in many other cases. apparently judge cannon just had to have a hearing about it. it is the last delay tactic from a judge who has wasted countless months on frivolous motions.

she saw but refused to allow the case to go to trial and still has not even set a date for the trial to begin. when it comes to the help trump is getting from the bench right now, that is exhibit a. but then there is exhibit b which, of course, is the supreme court. it's been two months since the court heard oral arguments on the additional -- ridiculous claim of presidential immunity. now there is just one week left before the end of the term and there is still no decision. sure, they have a lot on the docket and we understand that, but they have a pretty straightforward question in front of them. is a president above the law? it is a question they have answered the for. in 1974, president richard nixon made a similar argument at the height of the watergate scandal. he did not want to turn over those secret papers he had. a judge told him he had to. when the issue was made to the

supreme court the justices set a rapid timeline, they gave each party 21 days to file briefs and 10 days to respond. the court been scheduled oral arguments for one week later. then they issued the unanimous decision against the president just 16 days after that. that is a total of 54 days. less than half the time that this current bench has taken since agreeing to hear the appeal. we are still waiting. now not only have judge cannon and the justices on the supreme court lost the benefit of the doubt, the american people have all but certainly lost the ability to see these cases go to trial before the november election. so they can make an informed decision when they go to vote. remember, trump is a guy that claims the system is raked

against him. starting us off today former general counsel at the fbi andrew wiseman and legal correspondent lisa rubin. welcome to you both. let's just start with you and the new reporting from the times. i do not think i've heard anybody answer this aspect of the case. how unusual is it for a judge to ask another judge to give up the case? in this case two judges waiting and said to stand down. >> it is extremely unusual to have judges ask a judge to stand down. the reporting is that it is the chief judge of the district who would have that kind of responsibility, would feel that sort of obligation. it would not be for political reasons. it would be the fact that the

judge is quite inexperienced for a case of this nature. of course, her inexperience showed because she was reversed not once but twice by the 11th circuit in the pretrial phase. that inexperience is showing even if you just thought there was no bias which i think there's lots of evidence for. it even if you thought in terms of inexperience, she has more pretrial motions backed up. we are in the height of the summer. a good way to think about this is like laguardia airport on a holiday weekend with flames stacked up on the tarmac waiting to take off. she has so many pretrial motions pending that she has not gotten to. instead of saying, i really need help doing this. i could get a magistrate or other judges , she's not doing any of that. she's keeping all of it on her

docket. she has not scheduled it and she says the reason i cannot schedule the trial is because i have not gotten to all of that work. >> it is absolutely amazing to me, lisa in the sense that you have judge cannon who seemingly is spending a lot of time scrutinizing everyone else and every other aspect of this trial except the defendant himself whose accused of illegally retaining classified documents. what are we missing here? >> i don't think you are missing very much at all. in fact, one of the things that has folks like me scratching our heads is in terms of how she is allocating her time to the backlog of motions andrew was just discussing, for example she gave almost 2 full days to the question of whether jack smith was lawfully appointed. when he went to her and said,

we need to modify the bail conditions because his speech is threatening the safety of people involved in the investigation she said literally, you can have two hours this coming tuesday. the fact that she is allocating her time in the way that she is given the gravity of the situation, jack smith's office just told her the other day we need you to modify these conditions because there was a real threat aimed at an fbi official on june 11. this is not speculative or conjecture. this is eminent and real and how is she spending her time? thinking about whether jack smith was lawfully appointed in ways that the supreme court and two circuit courts in recent years have already considered and rejected ticket is baffling. >> baffling is an understatement when it comes to the actions of this particular judge.

there is also a hearing tomorrow that will deal with jack smith's request for a gag order. given the fact that trump has been making these false claims that the fbi was out to kill him , help us understand exactly what this is that we are watching unfold here. this sounds like there is something else going on that a posse of significant, imminent foreseeable danger to law enforcement is his argument while donald trump is saying, they were coming to get me. how can judge cannon justify not taking action on this aspect of it? >> i think here she is playing with fire. there are two motions pending having to do with donald trump's statements that can lead to

imminent danger. one is a new york related to the gag order there. the other is before judge cannon. this is one as lisa pointed out, the judge has been so cavalier in the way she's handled this, the timing of it, delaying having a hearing, rejecting the filing that was made on the ground that there was not sufficient conferral with the other side. that is the kind of actions that if she rejects this application it will be something that i think jack smith will feel obligated to take to the 11th circuit. remember, that circuit has already overruled judge cannon twice in scathing language. if she does this again here, she has to know that that kind of behavior and disrespect for safety of law enforcement is

precisely the kind of thing jack smith will feel obligated to take up on appeal and is the kind of thing that could really get her, depending on the panel, but the judges sitting on the matter in the 11th circuit could really get her in hot water. it could not be more serious. it's the reason you see judges like in new york taking such serious steps to make sure that the former president of the united states is not endangering people who are just doing their jobs. >> the final point to you, lisa. there's a lot of frustration across the country with all of this watching judge cannon slow roll this trial. you watch the supreme court slow roll the decision on presidential immunity. a lot of americans feel there is no recourse. we are sitting back watching this play out.

put that in context for us if you can. you've done excellent reporting and coverage on this from the very beginning. i have a feel for how this is translating for a lot of the american people outside of the bubble of either side. you know the trump world and those that want to see him go down. real people out there are concerned about how this is laying out. >> real people i definitely concern. one of the things real people are seeing is that delay is the decision in some cases. the delay occasioned by the supreme court not taking jack smith's invitation to have an appeal directly on presidential immunity but instead hold it off till the dc circuit acted and then not expediting the briefing but really taking their time or judge cannon slow walking the motions that continue to pile up before her. that in and of itself constitutes a real decision. i think the other things that

these people are concerned about his lifetime tenure. you cannot appeal delay nor can you ask for recusal based on delay alone. the 11th circuit has recently been integrated -- inundated with complaints from people who said you should remove her on the case based on the fact that she's failing to take action. the chief judge of the circuit said, delay is not, under our rules, the basis for getting somebody off the case. i think the american people, if they are concerned about these kinds of delay, they are the ones who can take action. only their choices at the ballot box can start to reverse some of what we see as delay actually resulting in almost a decision in the former president's favor. the only way to reverse this is

for the people to take action and elect a president who will appoint judges who will consider the role of law and take it seriously. >> we are at a point talking about presidents appointing judges who would consider the role of law. it tells you a lot about the times. andrew and lisa, think you very much. coming up, damning recordings of donald trump taken by the author of a new book about his time on the apprentice. we are just days away from the first presidential debate. let's just say, the two candidates are preparing a little bit differently. jennifer and molly are standing by to help us out. they will join me after a quick break. we will be right back. back. t—- get two pairs of progressives for just $129.95. offer includes a comprehensive eye exam. book an exam online today. when my doctor gave me breztri for my copd

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with just a few days until the first presidential debate, we are seeing new evidence that donald trump's felony

conviction is having an effect. despite what fox news tells their audience days in and day out their own poll released shows president biden leading trump by two points. the bond is thanks in part to an 11 point swing among independent voters from just the last month. it looks like the felony conviction does matter to voters. it also sparked big fundraising for trump. since the verdict, the maga faithful have opened their wallets allowing trump and the rnc to overcome bidens cash advantage. so poll movement in favor of haydn and cashman met in favor of trump. those seem to be the trendlines for right now. thursday's debate could shake things up. that could be the first opportunity to get a clear and

rob you of these candidates and the potential choice they have to make this november. biden and his team appear to be taken the opportunity rather seriously, approaching the debate like cramming for a final. while trump and his campaign have offered for informal policy sessions, probably with a little something on the side. trump and his allies are trying to soften the blow in the event biden performs well. they have spent the last few weeks baselessly claiming that the president will use performance-enhancing drugs. seriously. they said that. for those who may not remember, it's the exact same accusation the trump team leveled at hillary clinton in 2016. they are just recycling the same old smear. >> is anybody going to watch the debate? he's going to be so pumped up. >> he's going to be all hyped up , hyper caffeinated, whatever it is.

>> you will need to go see him and juice him. >> why is there so much more pep? >> i will demand a drug test. i don't want him coming in like the state of the union. a little before debate time he gets a shot in the . i say he will come out all jacked up. >> crafts, but we all know that. when you need to feel like you have to spout off conspiracies and stay -- say stuff like that you are probably not feeling too confident about your own team and your own game and the guy you are putting out front. we will talk about that now with former communications director for president obama jennifer paul mary and special correspondent for vanity fair and host of the fast politics podcast molly john fast. let's start with you. you have been in the heart of campaigns. let's break this down a little bit.

for trump and his supporters, joe biden is both people and told him can't put things together and cannot communicate but also is now taking performance-enhancing super drugs. am i wrong to think that lowering the bar the way that they are trying to do right now is probably not going to be the best strategy for them? >> the problem is that they have spent years lowering the bar for bidens appearances and abilities. it's not so much something to be concerned about on the trump side. they are hearing him, for independence and the 10% of voters that are still undecided, they are probably not watching trump rallies but they are seeing things online that are manufactured or edited or doctored that appear to show biden not doing so well. when they see him in real life at the debate stage as he was,

at the state of the union with that kind of energy and that sort of fight. he is really good at going back and forth with the audience. aside from trump he is happy to engage with them. i think what will hurt trump is the fact that they have spent months whispering to the general populace trying to tell them that biden is not in good a shape as he is. >> i think that dynamic is underrated in terms of how it will land on thursday. molly, i think that feeds into so much of what trump is about. he's about taking a hand of sloppy and nasty spaghetti and throwing it on the wall. he wants to see what is going to stick. do you expect that type of behavior and effort by trump on thursday? or will he come in

and try to be presidential? >> [laughter] it's not even nasty spaghetti. it's recycled spaghetti. these are the same things he said about hillary clinton. the idea that hillary clinton was taking speed and now joe biden is making -- taking speed. i don't know any drug. i have a parent with dementia. there's no drug you can get them to make them normal. that is not a thing. the whole idea here, the whole fantasy is completely beyond the pale. also what is good about the debate is that biden world really made sure to get what they wanted because trump will never stop talking they have muted microphones. you will -- biden will actually have time to speak which i think is really important. they did a really smart job with the way they negotiated this. the reality is more people see

trump the more they remember what it was like and the million people who died of covid and the bread lines, the cars lined up. that stuff may not have been directly trump's fault but it was when he was president. >> that is a good point. my cohost and i on the weekend had an interesting interview with the president of the heritage foundation. i want to play a bit of that interview. we talked about immigration. let's take a listen. >> we need to have the biggest mass deportation system in the history of america because it is -- because it is unjust that more than 10 million illegal aliens have come to the country. >> what are these people doing now? >> a lot of them are committing crimes like murdering a 12-year- old girl in houston. >> so that is one out of 11

million. >> it is no question that immigration will come up at the debate on thursday. from a communications perspective, how would you advise the president to talk about an issue that republicans are very eager to emotionally charge their base with and to wrap around the president as a weight as opposed to recognizing the fact that they actually stopped the one reform that could change the whole nature of the situation at the border. >> there was a solution on the table that the president tried to get congress to accept and it failed for one reason which was donald trump wanted to keep the issue alive as a republican issue and told them not to support it. the president can talk about how he has requested more money for border patrol agents than any other president and done

more to secure the border and congress would not follow that because trump said they should not. as you know, last week the president took action building on the executive action that allows dreamers to stay here for additional time to allow people that have been here for 10 years has been extended to another population. that may seem like a small act. these people who have been here for more than 10 years -- i think it can politically benefit biden. the people that it applies to, think about how many people that impacts. that could be 3 million family members. it is a real change that the president has made. you bring it back to trump trying to separate families. >> i think those last two points are very powerful ones to make. i appreciate both you and molly

coming on the program today to talk about all of this. thank you so much. coming up, new tapes of donald trump making headlines across the country. spoiler alert. none of it is good for donald trump. we will discuss it with the author that conducted the interviews when we come back. v] oh now we're torquin'! the dodge hornet r/t. the totally torqued-out crossover. (man) every time i needed a new phone, i had to switch carriers... (roommate) i told him...at verizon, everyone can get that iphone 15 on them. (man) now that i got a huge storage and battery upgrade... i'm officially done switching. (vo) new and existing customers get iphone 15 on us when they trade in any iphone. verizon [ serene music playing ] welcome to the wayborhood. the wayfair vibe at our place is western. my thing, darling? shine. gardening. some of us go for the dramatic.

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>> the reason i'm doing this and devoting a lot of time to it, i have to get back up because doing the whole thing with afghanistan. >> there is also a moment where trump is clearly still struggling with timelines because he suggests that joan rivers who died in 2014 voted for him. >> john said she was a republican. did you know that? >> i thought she might have been a republican. i know one thing. she voted for me according to what she said. >> there's also more revealing moment he would not want to stay here. while responding to an innocuous question about former contestant geraldo rivera, trump acknowledged he lost the election but quickly caught himself. >> what was geraldo like? >> he was good. he did a good job. he was smart, cunning. he did a good job. >> are you still close?

>> i don't think so. he is -- after i lost the election -- i won the election but when they said we lost he called me up three or four times. >> i lost the election. for all the things he can't keep straight he did briefly get that one right. he is coeditor and chief a variety.'s new book is apprentice in wonderland, how donald trump and mark burnett took america through the looking glass. ramin, this is incredible work. you include those moments in the book where trump has trouble with that and timelines. that is putting it kindly. what do you want readers of the book and the voters out there who will hear about this and take something from it to understand about who this guy is right now.

>> thank you for having me. i really appreciate it. this was based on six interviews i conducted between 2021 and 2023. it's the most on the record access he gave any journalist since leaving the white house. what was so interesting was that it became very clear to me that he still looks at the world through the paradigm of reality tv. he became incredibly famous because of the apprentice which aired starting in 2004. he views the presidency and the campaign for the highest office in the land as extensions of reality tv. that's why when we hear him at his rally and he's talking about sharks or silence of the lambs and everyone is confused, he's not interested in policy. he just wants to entertain. when you look at him through that lens it becomes more clear. >> that is the scary part. i've been saying that since this whole thing began going

through that looking glass of reality tv because that's the world he exists in. in reaction to the book, what has that world been like in terms of responding to you. what have they said, have you gotten some reaction from trump's orbit? i can imagine they are thrilled with the book and the stuff you are putting out there. >> the trump campaign issued a statement. in the book i write about how i interviewed donald trump and return their three months later and he had no memory of our first conversation. which was very jarring. the campaign rolled back a very over-the-top statement that is comical and funny and made me laugh. again, it's an extension of reality tv. they said something to the affect of, because i was a nobody it didn't really matter that the president know who i was. it's like being on a reality show. when you watch trump in the board room talking to dennis

rodman. that's the way he conducts himself. millions of americans like that. the way in which the biden a campaign needs to approach him is as an entertainer, not a traditional politician. >> i have to be honest. i've been referring to this as the longest weekend at bernie's in history. somehow we are trying to figure out why and how. you really put some light on that because you have framed it in the way trumps sees it. this is entertainment. this is just another episode every day, every moment. when you first started the interviews he had not been indicted yet, he had not been convicted yet. have you noticed the shift in his behavior since that happened? how has the reality affected his reality tv view of his presidency? >> it was very interesting to me. when i first sat with him he had been impeached but had not

been indicted yet. he seemed like he was trying to find his place. you missed the cameras and the attention. when we sit down with him in november of last year at mar-a- lago i thought he would be in a worst place given everything was happening to him. the civil fraud trial was happening that day but he was energized by the attention and excited by his poll numbers. it became clear that it did not matter if it was good or bad, he just likes things happening around him. >> that is it. he's an attention hog. thank you so much for bringing the story to us. coming up, donald trump talks about the 10 commandments. irony is officially dead. i have some thoughts about that when we come back. back.

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there may be other side effects. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions, including immune system problems, if you've had or plan to have an organ, tissue, or stem cell transplant, received chest radiation or have a nervous system problem. keytruda is an immunotherapy and is also being studied in hundreds of clinical trials exploring ways to treat even more types of cancer. it's tru. keytruda from merck. see all the types of cancer keytruda is known for at keytruda.com and ask your doctor if keytruda could be right for you. we've got to talk about what is happening in the louisiana. this week the state's

republican governor jeffrey landry signed a new law demanding that all schools including public schools display the 10 commandments in every classroom. as outrageous as it seems, we should point out this kind of thing has been tried before. back in 1980, kentucky introduced a similar law but the supreme court struck it down. governor landry knows that. he also knows the current conservative super majority might be much more sympathetic if a challenge to his new law ever gets to them. in fact, right before he signed the bill into law he said, quote, i can't wait to be sued. first, it's pathetic to hear a sitting governor take pride in violating the constitution. obviously he sees an opening. why wouldn't he with this court? in 2022 the court ruled in favor of a high school for all coach who lost his job for praying after the games. in a

secret audio recording released a couple weeks ago justice samuel alito seems to endorse the idea that america needs to return to a place of godliness. he has every reason to believe the court could sign with him. he already has the backing of the leader of the republican party. >> who likes the 10 commandments going up in the schools? they think it is such a bad thing. has anybody read the thou shall not steal. has anybody read this incredible stuff? it's just incredible. they don't want it to go up. it is a crazy world. >> seriously? thou shalt not steal says the guy find a half $1 billion for business fraud. perhaps

somebody should read the seventh commandment to donald trump since he seems to have an aversion to getting into any of the specifics. remember this? >> i'm wondering what one or two of your favorite bible verses are? >> i would not want to get into it. to me that is very personal. i do not want to get into it. >> one that means a lot to you that you think about? >> i do not want to get into specifics. >> i don't want to do that. >> old testament or new testament? >> probably equal. >> that is the real donald trump. in public when he's out on the stump, he is just pandering to the christian nationalist base.

here's my question for trump and landry on the face they are talking to. am i to assume you now support allowing our muslim brothers and sisters to place passages from the quran in public schools or public squares in your community? don't worry, i'll wait. i think i know what your reaction will be. they don't consider the double standards. of course they don't. for them, rules and laws need to bend to their well and their preferences. what we are seeing with louisiana -- louisiana and the 10 commandments in schools is just the latest example of that. there is more that coming. my friend, eddie is standing by. he's coming up next to talk about all of it. t. adding vraylar to an antidepressant is clinically proven to help relieve overall depression symptoms better than an antidepressant alone.

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when we signed that bill into law we signed a string of others. i signed 20 bills including this one to reform louisiana schools. >> it is just amazing. that was jeff landry talking about a new law requiring the 10 commandments to be displayed in public schools. when you lose fox news on a cultural issue like that i think you have gone a little bit too far. joining me now is my friend eddie glaude. i've been looking forward to talking to you about this. you and i have had these questions and discussions around this for a while. do you get the sense that republicans members of the party are pressing their advantage here a little bit too much. they are going on the offense thinking they can pull the country into this form of

violating the constitution? >> i don't know if they think they are getting ahead of their schemes. i think they see a window, an opportunity. when i say they i am talking about those that self identify as white christian nationalist. what is fascinating to me, and you tell me if you think i'm wrong this is the kind of extreme version of what we saw in 1979. when you think about what they were trying to argue about the supreme court decision to ban prayer in schools. when you think about what they were doing you think about abortion. you think about the attack on the gay liberation movement an extension of the culture.

in some ways this is a long- standing culture war that has been executed by white christians in certain ways. we have to understand the lineage as well as how it is currently functioning. >> you just put your finger on the pulse of it. i have been making the case for a while now that when you go back and look at that evolution, it really began in that 76 to 80 when reagan lost the primary and the moral majority by the end of the cycle had come to them. in 1980 they decided to embrace the moral majority movement as it was a legend by putting a pro- life platform for the first time ever they put a cultural issue on the platform. that was giving leverage and opportunity to what has now flourished into what we see. when you look at the reaction of somebody like trump to this law and the reaction of others

in this need to continue to pander to the christian nationalist base which has emerged. what does it tell you about what we should expect from a second term when you have a president who is declaring upfront that it is this form of christianity that we want to embrace and put forward for the nation. >> that is such a great question. part of it, we need to expect an administration that is not is going to be driven by certain kinds of policies but ideologically and existentially they will try to take the country back, bring it back to what they understand themselves what they take the country to be. when you think about russell vaughn at the center of renewing america when you think about william wolf and what animates them, when you think about how they are influencing

project 20/25. remember, it has a mandate for leadership has these volumes that are aimed to impact and affect government. it's an echo of the mandate for leadership 1981. 3000 pages, 20 volumes. did it make up about 60% of the reagan mega solution -- reagan revolution? we need to take this seriously as a blueprint for how this man will govern and how the folk downstream will govern. >> it's interesting that you put it that way. when you look at where we are we have alabama republicans going after ivf. louisiana republicans going after secular. you have this emerging ideology. how should this motivate the rest of us who are watching this? this is our future potentially. you talk about project 2025, we had the president of heritage on yesterday talking about

this. what does it say that this is how they view america? what should the rest of us be saying about that view? >> first of all, that was a brilliant interview yesterday. i think it is very clear these folks have theocratic leanings that they are not true democrats small d that they are not considered -- committed to the project as we understand it and we understand that the cultural shifts of the country have made politics such that the only way they can win is that they have to rake the terms of the election in certain ways. i think they are very much motivated by anti-democratic aims. if we don't understand that as americans, those that are not committed to such a worldview, we will stand by and be complicit in the undermining of the very basic principles of american democracy. we need to see this as part and parcel of the threat. let's

make the case at the ballot box. >> thank you so much, my friend. i appreciate you. we will be right back. back. the virus that causes shingles is sleeping... in 99% of people over 50. it's lying dormant, waiting... and could reactivate. shingles strikes as a painful,

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that does it for me. we will be back with you next sunday. stay where you are. there is more coming up. congresswoman iona presley on the plan to combat trumps