nice man and he did not deserve this. >> weldon's wife lea is a single parent too. >> he should not be in prison. he should be home. weldon is a beautiful person that my son should be able to have that in his life. >> weldon mcdavid, the man who said he just wanted to help. who once empowered a woman in an abusive marriage, now the fallen hero, contemplating life behind bars. perhaps he sums it up best. >> there is no winners here. no winners at all. this whole situation is a loss. that's all for this edition of dateline. i am craig melvin. thank you for watching. you for ♪♪ this sunday, presidential showdown. president biden and former president trump are set to face off in the first debate of the

2024 campaign. >> i'm not interested in playing politicians with our border and immigration. i'm interested in fixing it. >> when i'm re-elected, joe biden's illegal amnesty plan will be ripped up and thrown out on the very first day. >> will this high-stakes debate shake up the race? my guest this morning, biden campaign co-chair mitch landrieu and republican governor kristi noem of south dakota. plus, running mates. donald trump narrows his choices for his vice presidential pick. >> there's never been a better politician, a better debater, a better communicator. >> i feel very comfortable with the fact that i can do the job. >> who will make the final cut? and team of rivals, vladimir putin makes a rare visit to north korea to sign a mutual defense pact as he seeks more ammunition for the war in ukraine. how will the west confront this new escalating threat? >> joining me for insight and analysis are "the wall street

journal" senior political correspondent molly ball. greg bluestein for the "atlanta journal constitution." former republican congressman carlos curbelo and jim open townsend former spokesperson for kamala harris. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> announcer: from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history, this is "meet the press" with kristen welker. good sunday morning. i'm peter alexander in for kristen welker. it has been more than 1,3 hundais since the last debate between president biden and former president trump, the last time either man appeared on a debate stage. in four days they will face off in the earliest election debate in history in what may be the most consequential face to face in decade. the two candidates and their allies have signaled that they will attempt to portray each other in the most negative light possible casting mr. trump as an unhinged felon and president biden as not physically or mentally equipped to serve another term.

>> crooked joe's gone to a log cabin to study, prepare. no, he didn't -- he's sleeping now because they want to get him good and strong so a little before debate time he gets a shot in the [ bleep ]. >> the things he said are off the wall. i want to be a dictator on day one. i want to move in the direction of -- you know, he talks about, you know, suspending the constitution. i want to hear what he says. remind people what he says and what i believe and what he believes. >> the stakes are high. more than 73 million people tuned in to the first biden trump debate in 2020, and president biden is spending the weekend at camp david, hunkering down in formal debate prep. the president's personal lawyer bob bower is playing the role of mr. trump reprising his role

from 2020. mr. trump was on the campaign trail on saturday, aides say that he's going to spend time this week meeting privately with advisers in his florida estate and part of his informal debate prep process. president biden with fund-raisers on the trail has previewed what will be one of his key debate messages, that mr. trump is not a greater threat to the country than during his time in office. >> the threat that trump poses is greater than the second term than his first. it's clear that when he lost in 2020 something literally snapped in this guy. now he's running again and he's clearly unhinged. >> trump allies are pushing the former president to focus on president biden's record and some of his own plans instead of venting about the legal cases against him and repeating false claims of election fraud. president biden's team expects aggressive attacks on the president's record on immigration and the economy in particular. tomorrow marks the two-year anniversary of the supreme court's dobbs decision that overturned roe v. wade and both the president and vice president are making the fight to protect reproductive rights central to their campaign. >> i think that the debate is going to make clear contrast

between our president, the current president who works on behalf of the american people and fights for the american people and the former president who pretty much spends full-time fighting for himself. >> mr. trump's vice presidential short list has gotten even shorter. in interviews with nbc news, more than a dozen sources wired into the process tells us north dakota governor doug burgum and ohio senator jchlt j.d. vance are now emerging as the top finalists. florida senator marco rubio remains in contention, but those sources say there are doubts about rubio's enthusiasm for the job. both burgum and vance were asked this week whether they want to be v.p. >> when he makes that decision, it is solely up to him, and he's the guy that controls the criteria. there's never been a politician, a better debater and better communicator. >> that's ultimately donald trump's choice whether he selects me as vice president. i feel very comfortable with the fact that i can do the job, but look, you have to have some

humility going into this too. >> on saturday nbc news asked mr. trump whether his vice presidential pick will come to thursday's debate? >> most likely, yeah. he'll be there. >> have you decided who the vice president is? >> in my mind, yeah. >> do they know? >> no, nobody knows. >> and joining me now is mitch landrieu for president biden's campaign. mr. landrieu, welcome back to "meet the press." >> nice to see you. thanks for having me. >> let me get started. president biden asked for this debate in june, the earliest general election debate in history. aides privately tell me that the campaign was looking for an opportunity to shake up a race that has largely been static for months here. is president biden the underdog in this debate? >> no, i don't think so. the president has debated donald trump twice and beat him twice already. the president is anxious to tell his story to the american people as he has been doing for the past three and a half years, listen, this race is going to be tight, everybody knows that.

it will come down to a couple of votes and a couple of important states. joe biden wakes up every day thinking about the american people, fighting hard for regular folks, thinking about ways to lift everybody up. donald trump wakes up every day pretty much thinking about himself, thinking about his rich friends, and then really thinking of ways to hurt people if he had the power if he were president of the united states again. i think the president wants to be really clear about the difference between those two that the people will see again on thursday. >> and let me ask you. will you concede this is a high reward, high-risk strategy for president biden given the doubts that americans have about his ability to serve another four years? >> well, listen, everything that we do is high risk. every campaign that you have is going to be close. everything that you do, it has to work and has to be thoughtful. when the american people continue to see donald trump do and say the things he said

before, i don't want someone that thinks about himself and his rich friends. i want someone who thinks about me. it doesn't matter how donald trump shows up, if he comes in unhinged like most of the time or sits quiet, people will know he's a twice of had impeached convicted felon who has been found to sexually abused somebody and has gone bankrupt six times. they will always know that, and that's something the american people have to think about, about the wisdom, character, and judgment of the person that they'll apoint to lead america not onto at home, but also to the rest of the world. >> as you know well, top of mind for so many americans both with the economy and inflation, despite limited signs of improvement, voting consistently show mr. trump over president biden when it comes to handling the economy. how do you change the minds of those americans who say they're still not feeling the progress that you promote? >> well, first of all, those feelings are really important and they're real, but to remind

people, president biden took over the country when it was if the midst of covid, in the midst, as you now know, of an insurrection and a cataclysmic downfall. while president biden came to the rescue he passed the biggest pieces of legislation that was seen in our country's history and he's created 15 million jobs and the problem is that all of those benefits are not flowing down to everybody as quickly as possible and that's why joe biden every day is fighting to save people money by fighting for lower prescription drug costs and fighting for health care and fighting for people to have access to housing and big oil and all of the big companies are not taking profits when they're not supposed to, and making sure that everybody has a chance to support their families. >> and just to be very clear, you mentioned housing. the home prices are at a record high. the median home price is $419,000. you were talking about food prices as well. those costs are up 20% since the start of the biden presidency. i want to ask you specifically about the debate. there's going to be no studio audience, and the candidates'

microphone will be muted when it's not their turn to speak. if the biden intention is to show trump being trump, with all of the interruptions that we saw in the first debate in 2020, does this in some way prove to be an advantage for donald trump? does it cause a bigger risk for joe biden? >> i don't know. who knows what donald trump is going to do at any minute or any time? i'll bet that he'll talk over the microphone a hundred times because he's a bully. the best way to deal is to stand up to a bully. the fact still remains, he cabinet was awful. 17 of his cabinet members left and said please don't elect him again. three of the people he's thinking about picking as vice president on his top list actually asked the american people not to listen to donald trump because he was a fraud. so this is a really clear choice. you can have a great guy that's got great character, great judgment, great wisdom that

fights for the american people and or a guy that wants to hurt anyone not with him. >> let me ask you about a new ad with the biden campaign and the focus is heavily on mr. trump's felony convictions. it calls him a, quote, convicted criminal who's only out for himself. will joe biden make that same argument on the debate stage? >> well, i'll let the president say what he's going to say, but the affect of the matter is that the sky is blue sometimes, and donald trump is a convicted felon, and the american people have to sit in that for a second. the person who wants to be president has to go sit with his probation officer before he actually goes to the debate. it is just a fact, but it is not just to call donald trump a convicted felon. it goes to his behavior, and it goes to his character. remember, he's filed bankruptcy six times. he's not just a bad business guy. it means he's screwed the small people who relied on him for a living, and so the american people will see that.

when you have 17 cabinet members and his chief of staff saying to you, the people who know donald trump -- the people who know donald trump the best like him the least. that's worth taking a moment to think about he's good at being bad. >> president biden is spending too much time on this particular topic of democracy being at risk. it's their argument that if you believe that democracy is at risk right now, you're already voting for joe biden. are they wrong? >> no, they're not wrong. democracy is very important. donald trump led the insurrection and talks about political violence, and if you undo the democratic norms, you don't have a chance to make a living. you need to lower the cost for american citizens, and joe biden is fighting for that every day on housing costs, on gas, on groceries. inflation has come down from 9% to 3% because joe biden is working every day. and don't forget, americans are now back at work. we're building things now, and we're making products in the united states of america.

the stock market has hit four all-time highs, but we have to do more because people are feeling the pain and joe biden wants to make it easier for them. >> mitch, let me ask you about this. in the 2020 campaign, after four years of donald trump, president biden promised to return the nation to normalcy, and he cast himself as a bridge to new leadership. here is what he said then. >> look, i view myself as a bridge, not as anything else. there's an entire generation of leaders you saw stand behind me. they are the future of this country. >> so here we are four years later and joe biden is back on the ballot. what changed? >> well, nothing changed. joe biden didn't say he was going to be a one-term president. he said he was going to build a strong foundation of leaders, and, my goodness, look at the incredible democratic leaders across the country. we have governors that weren't in office that are doing an incredible job. >> wes moore who was right there when the bridge collapsed and got that back up and operating. >> why not hand the reins over to a different democrat this go around and take away the concerns about his mental fitness to serve? >> well, first of all, joe biden

doesn't have any concerns about his mental fitness, nor do i. i've spent an incredible amount of time. that's just the other side pushing a fade. the cataclysmic downfall to lead the world and he has built up an entire new generation of leaders that will govern this country really well into the future and he succeeded masterfully in both those things. >> mr. trump is expected to attack president biden as being weak on immigration, amplifying the examples of undocumented migrants committing crimes. president biden is losing ground with some latino voters. how will the president respond to those attacks? >> well, first of all, the border is in trouble, and it has been for the past 20 or 30 years in this country. joe biden on day one, on day one sent a comprehensive immigration reform proposal to congress and they did nothing with it, and then as you may recall now, four months ago after congress doing

nothing, the president met with the most conservative republicans in the country. they asked for everything in the border bill. the president gave it to them. and because president trump called and told them not to do it, there are still challenges. we have a long way to go with that, and it is a very important issue, and making sure america is safe and secure is president biden's top priority. >> why is joe biden losing ground with some latino voters right now? >> well, i don't know. i think you have to play this thing out and see how it works. latino voters are like everybody else. you see this from place to place and you see it with african-americans, as well. most americans want a safe and secure country, they want a stable country and someone fighting for them and at the end of the day i think they'll vote for joe biden. >> mitch landrieu, we thank you for joining us and sharing your perspective. when we come back, republican governor christie gnome of south dakota joins me here next. gnome of south dakota joins me here next. perspective. when we come

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former president trump says he only knows who he will pick as a running mate. he's the only one with that information in his mind, and on saturday at a gathering of religious conservatives here in washington the crowd had some ideas shouting vp, vp as our next guest took the stage. joining me now is republican kristi noem of south dakota. governor noem, welcome back to "meet the press." >> thank you. thank you for inviting me. >> we heard how president biden is preparing for the debate. here's how presidential debate prep said what donald trump needs to accomplish. everyone agreed that mr. trump does not come off as unhinged or enraged. he has to keep his cool and cannot make it all about himself. is that good advice, governor? >> i think it's an important debate. it will be a great opportunity for president trump to talk about his policies and how the

policies were good for every single family in the country that lived here. they had more money in their pockets. the grocery prices were down, gas was down. they'll have more opportunity. he'll have a fantastic opportunity. >> to be clear in 2022, the personal insults are part of what you did not appreciate about mr. trump. should he avoid those insults on the debate stage? >> i don't think he'll have to get personal at all because he'll have so many good things to talk about in contrast to joe biden's policy. >> republican, sorry. >> joe biden's policies have been devastating for the families that live here in this country. the costs have gone up and they've had less opportunities and they're just really incredibly challenged right now with trying to afford putting food on the table, so that's what i think president trump is planning on focusing on. >> let's talk about the economy if we can and specifically mr. trump's plans on it. he's recently talked about a 60% tariff on chinese imports, and he recently floated an

all-tariff policy, and he calls himself a tariff man, which is effectively a tax on american consumers. how would sweeping new tariffs help middle and lower income americans. >> when he was talking about that what he was referencing was getting rid of the income tax which would help every family. >> some of those americans don't pay -- wouldn't they end up paying more on the tariff? >> i served on the ways and means committee when i was in congress, and that's the committee that does all tax policy and all trade policy, and many times when we talk about trade and trade with other countries and especially with china, we talk about free and fair trade. we talk about free trade and never have been treated fairly by china and they hit us at their borders with regulations that take more money out of americans' pockets and they've never been fair to us. president trump has recognized that many times with countries like china who do violate our trade agreements all of the time that you do have to have consequences when they do that. >> i want to talk about what you have said about the trade wars in donald trump's first term.

you said, quote, south dakota has been devastated by the trades that have been going on. do you feel it could be devastating to south dakota's economy? >> think it is very important to remember and be specific about when tariffs are utilized. so i'm a farmer and a rancher, and many times when you talk about tariffs, they do have an impact on us and our income. >> they know as well as anybody in your state. >> we know when our soybeans hit the border of china they hit us with sanitary and phytosanitary regulations and -- >> and they have a real impact on the people of your state. >> listen, they are -- china is definitely our enemy when it comes to the communist party and who is running that government. they've never treated us fairly under trade agreements, and i hope president trump will continue to be strong and fight for the american consumer. >> it never got passed under president trump and it did pass with bipartisan support by president biden in 2021 and has provided south dakota with $1.5 billion for more than 250 projects. they include more than $800

million for roads and bridges and $47 million for airports, and $100 million to expand broadband access. has south dakota benefited by president biden's law? >> we also have helped our families by opening up our state and by making sure our economy was strong. we've made very different decisions when president biden was in office than we did when president trump was. i would say that every day as governor when trump was in the white house, i was on offense. i was able to solve problems for americans and people in my state. with biden in the white house, i've been on defense. it's been a consistent fight against regulations and administrative rules and interpretations and even lawsuits from the federal government on what we're doing. >> so to be clear, you wouldn't give the $1.5 billion back.

has your state, south dakota benefitted? >> we have used those dollars strategically. i would say those dollars we used strategically, knowing if we returned those dollars back, they'd be sent to another state, and they'd use them. some we rejected and some divide green, new energy deals and regulations and more control from the federal government, we've rejected those dollars recognizing it was a way for joe biden to grab more control of our families. >> let me ask about some of the reports and there are three names on donald trump's short list, yours is not one of them right now. are you being vetted? have you received the paperwork? >> the only person who knows who the vice president is going to be is donald trump. >> have you received paperwork? >> no, i haven't. i've had conversations with the president and i know he is the only one that will be making the decision on who will be vice president. >> you said having a woman on the ticket would help donald trump win, and he said on this program last year he liked the concept of running with a woman. the only men, as you know, on his short list are burgum, vance, and rubio.

would donald trump be making a mistake if he doesn't pick a woman? >> he needs to pick the right person that will help him win and president trump is strong, he's right on all of the policies and he needs to pick somebody who will help him win and make sure he's back in the white house fighting for america. >> i would ask you. you wrote in the recent book about shooting your dog cricket. do you think that sharing that anecdote, whether fairly or unfairly cost him a shot at being your vice president? that was a story from 20 years ago about me protecting my children from a vicious animal. so we've covered that, and any mom in those situations when you have an animal that's viciously killing livestock and attacking people, it's a tough decision. the reason it's in my book is that book is filled with challenging times and hard decisions, and it's a story, and i think many americans will be able to read and learn how they can get engaged with their government again. >> to be clear, republicans have had a lot to say about your story. puppy dogs are pretty popular. i was stunned. why would you do that to a puppy?

it's just crazy. even donald trump said about that episode, governor, that you had a bad week. do you think it cost you a shot at being v.p. >> did you read the book? >> i haven't read it cover to cover. >> it's a wonderful book, and if you read the book, a lot that got reported with us not the truth on the story. so i would encourage people to read the book and to find out the truth of why the story was in there and read the other sides of the story about how we're not going back to politics the way it used to be and how donald trump and having real conversations about the challenges people face. >> so let's talk about the book since we've talked about much of it just now. this week russian president vladimir putin traveled to north korea to kim jong-un. in the first release, you wrote i remember when sitting with dictator kim jong-un, was there no evidence that that would happen. >> i took that line out of my book. >> i guess my question is you

wrote the book, so why was that line ever in that book? >> i wrote the book, and i hope people will read it, and it's a good book about how the american citizen can get involved in the government and how the most powerful person in government is them, and it's the people who show up and get engaged and the stories of what they can do and to take the country back and how donald trump's policies -- >> did you or did you not meet with kim jong-un? >> i am not going to talk about this? >> why is that so difficult? >> because i've taken that line out of the book and i'm not going to discuss it. >> okay, i guess the question is because you wrote it in the book, people wanted to know whether that was an accurate or inaccurate statement. let me ask you about abortion. as a member of congress you voted for federal legislation that defines life as beginning at conception. donald trump does not support that. in fact, he now says that he would not take any federal action on abortion if elected, is that the right call? >> you know, i think what's important is that roe v. wade has given the decision back to the people at the state level,

and every state will look different. i think that's appropriate. i know every state will have different laws, but we need to continue to talk about what we can do to help women who are in crisis and what we can do to walk alongside them and support them and love them, and when people find an unplanned pregnancy, that's a very difficult time when they're challenged with that. and so that's what we've chosen to do in south dakota, is to make sure we're focused on supporting women and supporting families and making sure that we're taking care of those who find themselves in this type of situation. >> as you know, south dakota has some of the most restricted laws in the country. >> donald trump says he is up outs those exceptions and said he would not pick a running mate if he does not accept those exceptions. >> i would not say that. every state will look different and he said that many times over. in fact in our state specifically the people decide. the people will decide what the law looks like. i as the governor don't get to be the dictator. we get to talk to people about what the law will be and have

that discussion, and then every state will look different. >> we're in the shadow of the capitol right now, just outside the building here. on january 6, 2021, you posted a message immediately condemning the violence. you said what's happening in the capitol right now must stop. what message, governor, is donald trump sending by pardoning the rioters who have been convicted if he wins? >> i think each of those situations has to look at separately. >> you would disagree in pardoning all of them. >> i would say every single one of those cases needs to be looked at specifically. what i have been clear about is we don't want to see another jan 6th again. nobody in the country wants to see a day like that again, and i believe when donald trump comes back to the white house and is in charge of the country, we'll have incredible opportunities that people in the country will be safer and that we'll have law and order back in our streets, and if you look at the violent

areas of the country is democratic-run cities. >> violent crime in the country is down 50% since joe biden took office, but specifically just to get back to the topic of the rioters. is donald trump wrong when he says he will pardon all those who have been convicted in the january 6th attack. >> each of those individuals need to be looked at separately. >> and the 132 of them who admitted to assaulting law enforcement officers, would you admit they should not be pardoned? >> every one should be looked at individually. it's supposed to read the scales of justice. >> he's offering to pardon them. >> that will be based on his prerogative and his decision when he looks at those cases, but what i would say is we have a nation. we are a nation of laws and they need to be enforced and we have a president in the white house today ignoring federal law. he is ignoring federal law and allowing people into this country that are incredibly dangerous. just this week we had four different people that have been attacked or raped or murdered by

illegal immigrants that have come in over the open border. >> to be clear as you know, undocumented immigrants commit crimes at a much lower percentage than americans do. regardless of whether you are on the ticket this time, are you considering a presidential run in the future in 2028. >> i'm considering being governor of south dakota as long as they'll have me. i love my job. it's the best job taking care of people in my state. that's my plan. >> it's a beautiful state. are you ruling it out? >> i'm not even thinking about it right now. i certainly have a situation where i'm busy at home and we have a lot to get accomplished in south dakota the next several years. >> to be clear at least for now you're not ruling it out. perhaps we'll see you again along the way. kristi noem, governor of south dakota, i appreciate you coming in person. >> thank you. when we come back, incumbent presidents often struggle in the first debate. will president biden be ready? the panel is next. which penetrates deep to target the source of pain with nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory medicine directly at the source.

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reporter for "the atlanta constitution" and molly ball for "the wall street journal." symone sanders townsend former spokesperson for kamala harris. molly, i'll start with you, president biden and mr. trump will be facing off in atlanta just a few days from now. 1,3100 days since either of these men have been on a debate stage. who is facing more pressure and who is the pressure on? >> when you say it like that, it doesn't feel that long. >> it's the first chance for either candidate to break out of what essentially has been a tie for the past year and try to shake things up for them in their favor. i think you have to say more pressure is on president biden. we know from polls that vote verse more doubts about his age his ability to do the job. they want to see him perform in a high-pressure situation. as you say, neither of these

candidates have debated in many years, and as you say, there's going to be a lot of interest on just their respective stamina, their ability to parry questions and speak consistently and comprehensively and their demeanor. >> to synthesize your thoughts into the two-minute sound bites. greg, this is your home state and there's no question about his enthusiasm and grassroots energy and whether he can do the job and there's pressure how he'll synthesize those answers and also what he can get donald trump to say. i think in a week from now, we might know more about what donald trump was saying and less about what president biden said himself. >> incumbents have lost the first debate, and go back to barack obama and mitt romney. what are you hearing about how the biden campaign is preventing that from happening here? >> the biden team will tell you

that the reason we are here today and this particular space looking to are ward to debate this thursday is because of the challenge that the president issued to the former president, to meet him at the debate stage earlier than usual outside of the presidential debate commission, and i think that they set the terms and now they know that they have to rise to the occasion. the biden folks do believe that every time they asked the president to "meet the moment," he has, so they're not concerned about that. i think from the trump perspective, i think donald trump has a lot riding on this as well, and i understand why joe biden would be the incumbent. but donald trump we haven't seen him on a high-powered debate stage standing next to his opponent talking about the issues and we see him raging and railing against the machine and not talking substantively about the issues. joe biden regularly speaks about the issues and probably would like to be more so in an interview, frankly, for a lot of us than what we've been seeing, but we know how he stands on the issues. how does he "meet the moment" and where does donald trump stand on the issues.

>> what does donald trump need to do for a good night? >> peter, no self-inflicted wounds. donald trump is oftentimes his own worst enemy. as everyone has said. the pressure is not on him. the pressure is on -- the heavy pressure is on joe biden. he's the one that has to perform. donald trump can say governor noem's advice and talk about policy and boring things and that's what donald trump has to do in this debate. be vanilla and reduce his risk profile to make some of those americans who switched to joe biden in 2020, who chose joe biden in 2020 because they thought trump was too risky, to chaotic. he has to counter that narrative. >> symone. >> that to me the pressure is on donald trump because we had not seen him -- >> these are things that the allies are saying and it seems that things are tricky. that hasn't happened yet. let me ask you about something we noticed from the biden campaign. they leaned in to referring to mr. trump as a convicted criminal, clearly unhinged.

is that the right message to take into this debate? >> well, look, the biden campaign believes they're doing something clever here by making this argument that because trump being a convicted felon shows you he's focused more on himself, and it reminds me of a reversion of the argument that his republican moments made in the primary, which was the idea is that the legal issues that he faced would be a distraction, and votersdy not believe he'd be too distracted to governor or to be the nominee. it will be interesting to see if the biden campaign continues to feel that this is an effective attack. a lot of democrats believe that in 2016 hillary clinton spent too much time attacking trump's character and not enough talking about the policies he would implement. at the same time there is a feeling that a lot of the disengaged voters that biden needs to reach don't necessarily know about the baggage that trump has. >> perhaps, i think there's also the concern, right, that they want to make sure they know about the economy and what his vision is for the next four years. so many americans struggle, as i travel around the country, with

they don't know what joe biden has accomplished in the course of his four years, and you're a george guy, and donald trump narrowly lost it last go-round. he consistently leads in all of the polls, and how does joe biden appeal to the voters there? >> he appeals to the argument about the convicted felon. georgia is the backdrop to the debate and it's home of the small numbers who switched ballots and some of them in 2018. these are voters that are concerned about donald trump's background and his history and not a huge number, but enough that swung the election in 2020, and enough that helped senator rafael warnock get elected in 2022. >> how concerning is the fund-raising advantage that joe biden had that's all but been erased after donald trump's conviction in manhattan? how worried will the biden campaign be about that? >> i don't think they should be too worried and this is a big moment and a fund-raising opportunity for the president and he's coming off the heels of a big fundraiser from l.a. with everyone from george clooney to julia roberts. so i think the moneying will be

there. for the younger voters and some of those disaffected voters, disaffected republicans, will what they see on the debate stage this thursday make a difference for them? >> how does an 81-year-old or a 78-year-old speak to a 21-year-old? >> well, i know some younger people, maybe not 21-year-old, but some mid-20s, early 30 folks who would love to buy a house, but it's very expensive, who feel their rent is too darn high, to be clear. so what is joe biden going to do about that if given a next term, and does donald trump have a plan? i haven't heard one. >> carlos, we have new reporting about who the front-runners, doug burgum, j.d. vance and marco rubio is the third choice right now. who would be the best asset for mr. trump? >> apparently burgum is the one trump likes the most and feels more comfortable with. vance would be the next leader of the maga movement.

rubio's got a little residency issue, right, being from the state of florida, however, i think that politically he brings the greatest benefit to the ticket. >> why? >> i want you to think about two groups in particular. hispanics have been migrating toward republicans and rubio can accelerate that, and can you mention the trump skeptics and the republicans who are weary of donald trump. marco rubio is a figure that can give those people comfort, the people showing up still voting for nikki haley. those are two groups that trump needs to lock down, and rubio can provide that benefit, and not mentioning the fact that rubio would be a good governor, given the politics. >> does picking your v.p. even matter anymore. >> i think so. this is a margin of error race, and the race will be decided on margin. states with just a small number of voters could affect the outcome and it could be a countervailing effect and picking a j.d. vance can energize a democratic base and

get democratic-based voters. you can talk about joe biden's quote, unquote, problem with black voters. they don't see it as a battle between joe biden and donald trump. they see it as a battle between joe biden and the college. getting someone on the far right who can energize democratic based voters. >> symone, you worked for kamala harris who does she want to debate for this? >> i heard someone say j.d. vance be a formidable opponent for vice president harris. i don't think so. she is someone that could take either of them because the reality is it's not about who the v.p. pick is. it's about what donald trump says, and the vice president will have to defend his record and all of the things that he said. >> last thought, all three of those names have been very critical on tape against donald trump and you can see the ads writing themselves. you play the vp pick's voice attacking the guy at the top of their own ticket. >> it's hard to find anyone who hasn't been in the republican for five minutes who hasn't said something negative about

donald trump that they then had to eat. donald trump wants a certain thing about the v.p. to carlos' point, the decision he makes is a massive statement about what kind of presidency he sees himself having in a second term. is it about the future of the maga movement? is it about j.d. vance? is someone who will not say no to him and will sort of make him feel comfortable indulging all of his instincts. and so e think it's going to tell us a lot how he plans to governor. >> the last vice president he had isn't supporting him, and i think that's really telling. we have more to talk about when we come back. some of the best advice for a president in a re-election debate that has been learned over decades of experience. our "meet the press minute" is next.

welcome back. the biden and trump campaigns have announced similar strategies ahead of their debate rematch on thursday. to quote, let biden be biden and let trump be trump, encouraging the candidates to lean into their authentic personalities. that campaign cliche began with ronald reagan back in the '80s. in 1984 the polling director for president reagan's re-election campaign joined this broadcast ahead of his debate with walter mondale. >> four years ago you advised president reagan or then-candidate reagan to talk less, to keep his answers brief to avoid serious mistakes that were plaguing his '80 campaign. what's your advice to mr.

reagan, president reagan, about his technique tonight? >> well, roger, i didn't really give quite that counsel. >> oh, you didn't. >> i said, let reagan be reagan, in essence, and that's what we'll see tonight. >> what is the danger of the president committing some slip of the tongue like liberating poland or confusing lebanon with libya. is that a worry with you? >> it isn't a great worry. >> not a great worry. >> the problem and the challenge of a debate is that they offer a freestyle exchange and the president i've seen debate a number of times when, in fact, if it weren't for the debates in the primary of 1980, i'm convinced that reagan may well have never been nominated. >> this broadcast in 1984. and when we come back, louisiana became the first state to require the ten commandments

be displayed in every public classroom, renewing the culture war debate over the separation of church and state. more with our panel next.

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who likes the ten commandments, by the way, going up in the schools? [ cheers and applause ] >> they think it's such a bad thing. i think has anyone read the "thou shalt not steal?" has anybody read this incredible stuff? it's just incredible. they don't want it to go up. >> incredible stuff. that was donald trump just yesterday. welcome back here. major headline out of louisiana, symone, you know, this week, becoming the first state in the country to require the ten commandments to be displayed publicly in all public classrooms there. challenges are coming, of course, what does it say about the strength of the conservative christian movement in this country. >> think the conservative christian movement is infused into what has become the mainstream republican party. yesterday on our show, "the

weekend" we spoke with the head of the hair tan foundation, and he made these points. we talked to him about project 2025, and when i asked him about this project and was this tied to trump, he said this was really about trumpism and infusing trumpism and institutionalizing trumpism because reagan was 40 years ago, and i thought that was very telling. >> greg, how crucial are the culture wars this go around? >> you've seen similar legislation passed in states like georgia and other republican states, culture wars have been a recurring theme. >> i think it motivates voters for primaries. i don't know that it motivates voters for general elections. i do know that republican officials in georgia hope those issues help drive out turnout where it was underwhelming. >> when you talk about policy 'we're going to be hearing some of the back and forth-, and i think immigration and reproductive rights will be center stage and the economy on

thursday night, mr. trump is leaning into these attacks on immigration, and the biden campaign argues that mr. trump is to blame by taking that bipartisan border deal. mr. trump is linking illegal immigration with crime right now, is that going to stick? >> peter, this is a good political strategy. i'm not saying it's honest and i'm not saying it's right, su certainly, joe biden will not explain himself out of the immigration list. it is a very, very tough issue for them, just like abortion is for trump. i don't care how many times he says each state can do its own thing. people in these states who are facing tough restrictions are going to blame him. it will be the same with immigration and biden. and by way, that includes a lot of hispanic voters who are upset with the situation at the border who explains some of them shifting over. >> i was struck by the latest telemundo poll who shows donald trump is approved by 29% as it relates to the migrant voters,

and joe biden by 22%. neither one of them has this as a runaway right now. i think that is a way that will draw it. >> the hispanic vote is by the way, a lot of this is explained by the culture wars and a lot of hispanics are identifying with republicans. >> no doubt something the biden campaign is trying to avoid that erosion this go around. molly, the support with latino voters is trending in the wrong direction. we've seen president biden take the executive action where he is going to put protections in place to avoid deportation of those undocumented spouses of american citizens if they have been in the country for at least ten years. can the biden folks turn things around on this topic? >> you know, i've been covering this issue for more than a decade, and my feeling is that latino voters have become very cynical about the immigration issue especially. they don't see either party doing anything to help them. they don't see either party securing the border. they don't see either party fixing the broken immigration system. whether you're talking about latino voters and older voters and younger voters, the center of the electorate is concerned about pocketbook issues and the things that affect them directly and they're not concerned about the culture war stuff.

they're not concerned about a lot of it. but you don't really hear either candidate trying to tailor their message by the center of the electorate. we hear a lot more about trying to distract people and trying to get them focused on different issues and president biden is losing that conversation and he is not viewed as strong on that issue and if trump is talking about abortion, that is an issue that he loses no matter how he tries to talk about it. >> i want to ask you about abortion, because tomorrow marks the two-year anniversary of the overturning of roe v. wade. clearly this has proven to be a potent political issue for the democrats. what impact will it have on the election cycle and we've seen what it did in 2022, will this hold? will it still be such a big issue come fall? >> i think it will be a huge issue come fall because this is about a health care issue. the same procedure that is used in abortion is used in a miscarriage, right?

it is used when there is a complication and the fetus has died within the -- it is no longer a viable pregnancy and in long state after state across this country lawmakers are making the decision that hey, i don't care what your doctor said, this is the law and again, i don't care what your doctor said. you cannot get the health care that you need. we are waiting on the case from the supreme court to come down on a decision of medical care. >> in case of an emergency. >> and it will make a difference. >> carlos, i was struck by kristi noem here today. there is a difference between kristi noem and other republicans and donald trump on this issue in particular. she supports a federal abortion ban. she supports no exceptions in cases of rape and incest. donald trump has said no. he wouldn't consider somebody on that, behe still faces a lot of liability on that, and he put the three supreme court justices that overturned roe v. wade. >> it is even more complex than

that, he faces liability and risk on both sides. if donald trump starts getting too soft on abortion, we started this conversation talking about christian conservatives. >> will they leave him? >> i don't know if they'll leave him, but enthusiasm matters in close elections and if some of those people say donald trump doesn't care about abortion anymore, and he's not as staunchly pro-life and he's apologizing for it. some of those people might stay home and he has to find the balancing act. >> what's the headline when we wake up friday morning? >> the headline is it's still a close race. i don't know that anything will upend the dynamics of the race, but i do think that center block will really be important the next few months. notably rfk jr. will not be there, and a lot of these folks will be watching. and i don't like either one of these guys. as you said, it's joe biden versus the couch for some of them. >> a term for perfectly normal people. >> exactly. the question is does rfk not being on the stage help or hurt him? it's possible as you mentioned that both candidates come off looking so bad, but a can't not there -- >> is rfk worse for donald trump?

>> i don't care what the polls and the people say conventional wisdom tells me it is bad for joe biden and democrats know that which is why there's an entire effort to tearing him down, rfk. >> tune in to nbc at 9:00 p.m. eastern for coverage of the presidential debate hosted by cnn. lester holt and savannah guthrie will lead nbc's special coverage and analysis with kristen welker back from family leave and tom llamas and hallie jackson. we will be back next week because, of course, if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." i have the wounds all over my body. if i took this shirt off,