in 2018, three years after declaring bankruptcy, tony o'reilly delivered a line that became the last line of his "new york times" obituary today. you win and you lose he said. if you don't know how to lose, you don't know how to live. the legendary tony o'reilly gets tonight's last word. the 11th hour with stephanie ruhle starts now . tonight, it's exactly 2 years since the supreme court struck down roe v. wade. a decision the put abortion on the ballot in the race for the white house. biden goes off the campaign trail for a debate prep will trump focuses on bringing and more campaign cash. mar-a-lago documents case. prosecutors face-off against

trump's lawyers over a gag order request as the 11th hour gets underway this monday night. good evening once again. i am stephanie ruhle joining you from colorado at the festival and we are 134 days away from the election. today, today marks two years since the supreme court including donald trump's hand- picked justices took away the constitutional right to abortion. the cause of that decision almost 28 million american women of reproductive age now live in states with partial or total abortion bans. president biden wants to make sure every voter who knows that donald trump is the person responsible and what could be next. >> here's what donald trump says about your freedom. after 50 years with nobody coming even close, i was able to kill roe v. wade. two years ago, the supreme court

justices that trump hand-picked turned over roe v. wade. >> never before as a court granted and then taken away constitutional right. >> new laws banning abortion taken away. >> shattered because the last guy got four years in the white house. maga republicans, roe is just the beginning. they are coming for ivf and birth control next. we are up against extremism. >> earlier today, vice president kamala harris spoke at the university of maryland to explain the choice americans are really facing in november. >> donald trump thinks the government is in a better position to tell women what is in their best interest then women are to know for themselves. but joe biden and i trust women. [ applause ] and women trust all of us to fight for their

most fundamental freedoms. >> donald trump has consistently claimed credit for the end of roe and for the state abortion bans have followed. this past weekend, he publicly thanked the judges who are responsible for those decisions. with that, let's go smarter with the help of arleta panel. john allen is here, senior politics reporter for nbc news. josh, senior legal affairs for political and barbara mcquaid, federal prosecutor former u.s. attorney for the eastern district of michigan. her notebook, tack from within, how disinformation is sabotaging america is out now and a summer must read. barb, let's look back. think back to that decision two years ago. fast forward to tonight. what has gone through your mind from then until now? >> one of the things the majority said in the dobbs opinion is finally, we are

going to take abortion out to the supreme court is send it back to the states where it belongs. we see nothing of the sort because he created the chaos the people predicted it would because of the lack of clarity. now we have this patchwork of different states trying different laws, seeing what sticks and what works. we have seen 117,000 people travel to have abortions out-of- state in the past year. i think we are in a period of came at -- chaos that won't subside any time soon. >> josh, you were the person who broke the news that the court had voted to overturn roe when the dobbs decision leaked early. what were you thinking now and then? >> we were thinking it would be significant. we never thought it would be as big as it turned out to be. by that, i mean the political

impact really wasn't expected and the reason is we have seen so many other cases come and go from the supreme court on the issue of abortion. we had seen predictions from democratic activist. prediction from abortion rights activist. predictions from political analysts that this would be the one that would bring people to the polls and it never seemed to happen. especially the issue of bringing women to the polls. in the wake of this decision, first, the disclosure in political a couple months early and the decision to do years ago, we saw something we have not seen before which was a dramatic political up surgeons as a result of this. even in states really not known for progressiveness. >> clearly the democrats think this issue will help them in november. it did in the midterms. how does trump's camfield? >> they are very concerned.

you have heard donald trump over the chaos of the last couple of years scold other republicans for taking extreme positions or what he views as extreme positions on abortion. particularly those who want to have bans that don't include exceptions. there is tremendous fear and trump's said. you so joe biden's clips for democrats. they are working three main points. motivate the base. number 2 they have to make sure that voters understand that donald trump is responsible for the supreme court justices who made this decision. not voters understand that and you can see from what biden said that that's important to him. the third thing that is very important for them is trying to portray this as part of a larger extremism push by donald trump. >> but, donald trump cannot be that scared or worried. he is the one responsible for putting a seer and he takes

credit for it every chance he gets. he has chosen to make white evangelicals his core base. we know they are single issue voters and we know what that is and so does he. >> it wouldn't be the first time donald trump had taken an action in taken up proudly and learn the consequences worked what he wanted. i think he is happy to say he put the court -- what people interpret from that and he understands a political force that was unleashed by the reversal of the dobbs decision i'm sorry reversal of roe v. wade in the dobbs decision or one of the political factors a has to occupy his campaign. is not much they can do except try to make him appear to be a middle ground between the far right that wants to ban abortion completely in the democrats who want to keep abortion protections in place that are there now and expand them back to at least where roe

. >> josh, what you think of this is being toss about on both sides? >> i agree with jonathan but you have a classic straddle going on in the trump campaign where they continue to try to make their pitch to the religious conservatives, evangelicals, issue no. at the same time, they are very much concerned about this gender gap. it's a big problem, a lot of people including republicans think this is what caused trump the 2020 election. i think he has that in his mind. he can't give up on one side of the ledger but at the same time, he has that lurking in the back of his mind that he doesn't want a replay of 2020. on the and campaign side, i have been struck by the rather complete embrace of this issue by them. i was at an event over the weekend with the second gentleman doug emhoff and also

the vice president herself and they were stressing the degree to which they consider the supreme court responsible for this. the second gentleman was also talking about the supreme court reform which is interesting because it's a little off script for the biden administration. something the president himself has never endorsed but it remains popular with liberal voters. they are definitely swinging at this particular pitch as hard as they can in the biden campaign. >> barb, biden's campaign is saying things like ivf and birth control could be next. what are you most concerned this court could go after next? >> i think any kind of right that is built on the concept of substantive due process is at issue. if you think of the dobbs opinion, you may remember the majority included language like

this is very narrow. we are only talking about abortion here. don't try to extended to other things but clarence thomas in his concurrence said oh, yes it is. the basis of roe was substantive due process and if we find no textural support for that, that means there's also no textural support for other rights including contraception, gay six mix and interracial marriage. there is a fundamental right to privacy in self-determination even those precise words are not in the constitution. if dobbs can overturn roe then they can overturn all of those other rights as well. >> josh, some americans hear concerns about national abortion ban are cracked on a birth control and they think these are politicians being dramatic and could never happen. you cover the court closely. how do you see these concerns?

are they legit? >> well, we already see these sorts of cases coming to the court, stephanie. we had an abortion pill case at the court this year which was basically turned away on procedural and standing grounds. we have another case that is pending on the issue of access to emergency abortions and emergency rooms across the country. as barbara said at the outset, these issues are not going away and we will see. so far the supreme court has tried to tread, i think, the center line on this in the wake of the dobbs decision. perhaps chagrined a little by some of the back backlash they received. they may be trying to moderate themselves. how long that sticks for and

whether it sticks in every abortion case they get, i think, is an open question. none of them is publicly repudiating the decision they render two years ago even if they might try to tack one way or the other at this particular moment. >> josh, we are awaiting another big decision from the court about abortion. this time it's a case out of idaho about emergency care. can you explain this to us? >> this has to do with a federal law that basically governs what kind of services have to be provided to you in the emergency room. it stems from situations a couple decades ago with people with insurance which up at private hospitals and be turned away even though they were deathly ill because they didn't have the correct insurance and there was a law passed at the time that basically said if your hospital takes medicare for certain medicare patients, you have to provide emergency care to anybody that comes through the door. the situation that has developed in idaho and other states is a question of what happens if the state has implemented a rather strict ban

on abortion and you show up and need emergency abortion. it does happen sometimes. people are going antisepsis in their life may be in danger but a more common situation as they are having a problem that is going to cause them to lose the pregnancy eventually and could potentially if not treated, result in them losing the ability to have children in the future. you have hospitals now that basically and doctors it will not provide that care anymore. you have a classic clash between the federal law and the state law that in this case trying to outlaw abortion and that's where we are looking at the justices to resolve, perhaps, by the end of this week. >> in idaho, state that has a shortage of hospitals and maternal care. barb, there's other big legal news completely unrelated. wikileaks founder and the name we know well, julian assange has reached a plea deal with

the u.s. and t is a free man. can you explain this? >> it's actually a fascinating development. you may recall he was charged and awaiting extradition where he is in england for about five years. even before that, he was in the ecuadorian embassy and self exile for seven years. he has been locked away for 12 years. it appears that a plea agreement has been reached where he will enter a guilty plea to conspiracy with chelsea manning to violate the espionage act by coercing, controlling, working together with her to get classified national security information and disseminate that to the public. one interesting fact about all of this is that he will enter this plea, apparently, and the northern mariana islands. the prosecution has asked the plea and the sentencing a cure on the same day. it's expected the sentence will

be time served and incurring in the northern mariana islands because that's the court location nearest to his home country of australia to which he is expected to return. >> all right, one more topic before i let you go. jon, you knew i wouldn't let you leave. donald trump says he knows who his vp pick will be. where do things stand? i know he loves to play like we are watching the apprentice, the bachelor, who knows what. this is serious business. any clues? >> he could name anybody. he could name you are josh r barr. >> okay. of the three of us, who do you think has the strongest shot? >> [ laughter ] i think should leave that alone. i would note a couple of you attain the 35 years necessary to be vice president. all of our reporting so just

the leading candidates are north dakota governor doug burgum and j.d. vance, the senator from ohio. marco rubio still in the mix we are told from a dozen sources that nbc news spoke to. he could make any choice. we don't know when he will make it but it looks like it's narrow down closely to doug burgum. >> again, you said it could be anybody. in true trump style, could he surprised us? >> yeah, it would like be bringing somebody for the final row ceremony who is not in the entire bacherlor, bachelorette game. it is possible. i would not rule it out but it would undercut his effort to show to people he is stable in making decisions based on a thoughtful process. if he has this sort of game show atmosphere and at the end decides to throw a curveball,

that might lean into the biden campaigns argument that he is not very tethered, not very stable. >> just imagine it's a final rose ceremony in the bacherlor and he brings in ramona from real housewives. it's 2024. thank you so much. jon, thank you for the vote of confidence. when we return. all eyes are on the supreme court as we await two major decisions related to trump and january 6. we will break down the high stakes and the best guy in the business. those rulings could end up colliding with, guess what? the first presidential debate which is days away . how both candidates are preparing for the big night. the 11th hour just getting underway on a monday night . ht. if you're living with hiv, imagine being good to go without daily hiv pills. good to go off the grid.

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the supreme court term is winding down and the justices have yet to issue two extremely consequential rulings, both have to do with the attempt to overturn the 2020 election. first, as an ex-president, is donald trump immune from prosecution for his efforts to remain in power? whether his supporters can be charged with obstructing an official proceeding for the january 6 drying out. the next day for a ruling is wednesday with the court confirmed there will be decisions released thursday and friday. big party with the court. let's break it down with a man who knows the court best. justice department veteran a former acting solicitor general during the obama administration, he has argued dozens of cases before the supreme court. i think he is up to 50, is it right? >> 51. >> let's start with the obstruction case. what's the most important thing we need to know?

>> the decisions are coming down wednesday, thursday, and friday. the court could go to next week but very unlikely. >> why would it even take this long. >> it shouldn't, honestly. the big question right now in terms of the gravity is a president absolutely immune from the criminal law? every responsible constitutional scholar from two sentries have thought of course not. nobody is above the law but the court has taken month after month to decide this case to the point where even if they rule against trump, as i suspect they will, they may have given trump what he wants which is enough of a delay so he can be tried before the election. >> what does it tell you that they took this long to make this decision? does it mean they been arguing all this time? >> it means the process of writing the opinion takes a while, and that's true for any supreme court case. the differences sometimes when

they know time is of the essence, they can move quickly. i was a junior lawyer with bush v. gore and it was decided twice with the span of 36 days. here, they have taken month after month and they have given trump what he needed. >> next question about presidential immunity. help us understand the stakes of this case and what you think we will see from the justices? this one seems huge in terms of precedent setting. >> for 20 years i taught constitutional law and this quote from richard nixon he gave to robert frost which is, if the president does it it is not illegal. you always teach it and everyone understands that to be the most absurd thing the u.s. constitution could ever mean. we fought a revolution against king george the third for the opposite. now comes donald trump, the first sitting president, first

president in history to say i is a sitting president was immune from the law. is crazy town. i suspect it's so crazy town that even the supreme court will reject it. >> is a college professor who has been teaching this course and courses in this realm, if i would've said to you, five years ago, three years ago, this is what the court could be doing. this could be the argument before the court, which believed it? >> i wouldn't have believed it. i would've believed about roe v. wade being overturned because it an intensive conservative projects since the early 1970s. the playmate president could be above the law is so fundamentally un-american. it's not what the republican party i grew up stood for. it is now the call to trump and his party. it's a ridiculous proposition. justice sonia sotomayor said to trump's lawyer, this is ray, you are saying the president

can go is send out navy seal team six to assassinate his political rival? the answer was yes that is the argument. crazy. >> let's say trump is granted this immunity. what will the us look like going forward? >> it won't look like the united states. the president can do what he wants. he could assassinate his rivals and stay in power for third, fourth, fifth term and do what he wanted so long as he was not impeached. impeachment requires a two thirds vote in the senate to convict someone under our constitution and given where political parties are today, particularly the republican party, it seems trump can do anything and not be impeached. >> what do you say to the people who say, you are being dramatic. our institutions will hold. trump is a big talker but nothing will change in terms of the way the government

functions, the country operates. what do you say to those people. >> i heard that garbage before january 6 and look what happened on january 6. those images not just for us as americans but across the world. i was in japan and they were shocked by what happened in america on january 6. they thought is america the great country it was? that is the first thing and the second is trump was basically pretty incompetent his first term in the second term he knows what to do. point to all these loyalists who have no independent thought or conscience but just loyal to him and grateful for the jobs in power hebert sews on them and imagine what the government will look like with a bunch of people like that and no one to hit the brakes. note general kelly or hr mcmaster are people like that. it will be people like the criminals he associated himself with in his first term how many got indicted and criminally

prosecuted and convicted by juries and are now in jail or perhaps pardoned by donald trump on his last days out of office the first time around. >> and the supreme court with three justices on the bench because of him. talk about these other rulings we may hear this week. >> the abortion ruling you mentioned about the emergency access. there is a huge one, the conservative movement is this idea to overturn agency deference. it's -- >> i just fall asleep and you told me i need to wake up. >> most of our rules in the government are not set by congress but by agencies. everything from greenhouse gas emissions to whether tobacco can be regulated. all sorts of things are agency action. the conservatives for years have been trying to overturn the idea that agencies can decide the scope of their own

powers and regulate tobacco, greenhouse gas. if conservatives win this case, which according to oral argument suggests they might, it would mean the end of masses swaths of regulation over the u.s. economy to protect consumers, to protect businesses, to protect the environment and our health. it's a very big deal and it's hard for me to do in two minutes but please have me later on this week if the court does what many advisers think it will do, because it's a big big deal. >> i am paying attention and i am officially scared. i don't want you to leave until you ask about the classified case in florida. the argument of whether appointing special counsel jack smith was even constitutional. nine months ago i never would've predicted this would be where we are, but alas, we are here. >> trump is arguing special counsel is unconstitutional. >> did you think this was

possible? >> absolutely not i actually drafted it as a young staffer and i went to the hill to talk to the house and senate majority leader, minority leaders as well as top lawyers in 1999 when regulations were drafted. no one, not a single person thought there was any constitutional problem with this whatsoever from the most diehard republicans, diehard democrats, that has been the law. people have tried to challenge it every so often. the challenges go nowhere. the idea -- they take time, exactly, and that's what judge cannon has again, just like the supreme court with absolute immunity, handed donald trump the ability to delay his day of reckoning and face a court of law. trump will lose the special counsel unconstitutional argument. the question is when does a loser? >> she's been giving him a rolex daytona since day one -- day one. the gifted time. it is great to see you here in

aspen. trump may like us to think he is corporate america on his side but that is far, far from the truth. we will tell you the facts on the other side of the break. br. what is cirkul? cirkul is the fuel you need to take flight. cirkul is the energy that gets you to the next level. cirkul is what you hope for when life tosses lemons your way. cirkul, available at walmart and drinkcirkul.com.

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this is an impressive crowd the have and have morris. [ laughter ] some people call

you the elite. i call you my base. [ laughter ] >> times certainly do change. historically, the ceo class has long backed republican presidents but that does not mean they are in the tank for donald trump. in a piece for "the new york times", jeffrey who works with thousands of business leaders every year says despite all of trump's claims, he does not have the support of corporate america. listen to what he said earlier today. >> historically, this group has been 60, 70% republican leaning starting with trump it went to zero. 2016, none and 2020 just two and now it's none again. it's a profound break in historic pattern that ceos don't want to be identified with the republican candidate.

it's profound and they hate his positions. economic positions. >> for more i want to bring a former democratic senator of north dakota, a cnbc contributor offender of one country project and mark, former adviser to george w. bush and john mccain. you saw the clip of george w. bush and you know better than anyone how close the ceo class has always been to the gop. now donald trump is trying to claim, i am whining over the business class. he is actually losing the business class compared to his predecessors. >> yeah, it's a remarkable fact. literally zero will of the top 100 fortune 100 ceos have donated money to donald trump. that tells you everything you need to know. corporate interests have given money but that's hedging their bets. it's a protection racket. there giving money for protection and hedging their bets. none of them like him or agree with him.

the only fear what he might do. look at their own personal pocketbooks and look at what they're doing and that tells you all you need to know about where they are. >> senator, the fact that donald trump is fixated on this, he wants to convince as the ceo community has his back, is that because he wants to push the narrative that the economy is terrible and these guys who know business one and two win, that means i know biden is bad for us. >> i think part of it is his narrative in the beginning is put a businessman in charge. make me president because i ran a business and was successful. >> bankrupt. >> that's not the story he tells. he was times man of the year but he was not. if you're looking at donald trump's narrative, it is that he is a businessman, why wouldn't his own peers support him? he cannot stand the fact that he does not have corporate

america. corporate america is responding maybe not so much to policies, but you know from the work you've done on wall street, that the worst thing you can bring is chaos to the economy, and donald trump is a chaos president and ceo's know it and they need predictability and they need someone to pick up the phone and answer a legitimate question and they don't have that with donald trump. >> the last thing they want is unpredictability. he's been attacking president biden over the national debt -- according to new analysis, he ran it up twice as much as president biden has. throughout our professional careers, it has seemed republicans care that much about debt and deficits and why is it now they do not and trump could get away with lying about a? >> because trump ran as a populist. he was going to hand out the goodies to people. look at what he did. he started a trade war with

china . how today compensate farmers? he dumped money into farm country. he was never afraid of spending money. i thought his campaign was over when he said i am the king of debt and i will write down american debt. you could see stunned silence from the panel. he doesn't understand what debt is, and he understands that if you give people something, i'm not going to cut social security, not going to cut medicare or medicaid, that's good for him. we all know you cannot control that deficit unless you talk about -- >> let's talk about the debate which is only three days away from now. donald trump has spent months spreading lies about president biden's cognitive ability and out of the blue, he is saying that biden is a worthy debater who he does not underestimate. what is going on here? >> well, his advisers finally got through to him and told him

the worst thing he could do in any debate is raise expectations. political debates and presidential debates are about expectations. it's about what you expect and how you perform against expectations. the interesting thing about this is it's less a debate than a competency test. there's nothing about either candidate that we will learn that we don't know already. they won't put forward a policy position that they are suggesting are they supported in the past that will move the dial. people are not tuning in to find out what biden's policies or trump's policy but they are tuning in to see who is capable of doing the job. everyone is questions about their competency including the candidates about each other. who is really up for the job? that's the question on the stage. >> senator, what do you think

we are in for? >> i think a very aggressive joe biden. i think he will come out, he wouldn't do the debate this early if he didn't figure he needed to do it. i think you will see him come out and it will be aggressive, attacking the former president on abortion. he will talk about his failed economic record. the mess he had to clean up. and donald trump will ramble around and not make a coherent statement. low expectations for the president, if the president performs it biden performs, it will be a huge win ski for biden and democrats will breathe a sigh of relief that we live to fight another day. i think it will change poll numbers. this is a huge debate in my opinion. >> you think it's a good idea? >> i think it's a great idea. in part, we have bypassed the presidential commission on debates. we can talk about there's

another norm that's gone by the wayside but it allowed the president to set the rules. the rules benefit joe biden. >> what do you think? >> i think it was the smartest strategic decision of the campaign. they had three options. one not to debate. that's a nonstarter. the other was to put it off, let trump dominate the debate and say anytime, anywhere, any place until september then say we will do it and it's an trump's terms. by throwing down -- they showed confidence which is the most important thing that biden has got to do.'s problem is perception of weakness and he looks more confident, he takes control of the agenda and the rules of the debate. he looks strong and confident but doing it. it's a smart thing to do. it's also very high risk, but i think it's a risk well worth taking and as heidi said,

there's enormous upside to this. listen, it's a high wire act and there is no net. >> quickly, yes or no. do you think donald trump is showing up? >> yes. >> yeah, i think he's got to otherwise it shows weakness and that's the one thing donald trump cannot do. by the way, the worst thing it would do is create a perception of him as a loser and being afraid of joe biden. he can't tolerate that. >> you would fail in a debate because the rules were you were only allowed to give one word. great to see you. when we return, the world is full of division, especially in politics. there's a new initiative to fix the way we interact with people we disagree with. it's so important, i need you to watch this and i need you to care about it.

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please listen to this. sometimes it feels like the country is more divided than ever but a recent poll found americans still have a lot that we agree about. when asked what's important to american identity, the top answer for republicans and democrats were economic opportunity and a democratically elected government. why is it we cannot seem to disagree about policy without

feeling like we are at one another's throats? my next guest is a special american who thinks that is because we are treating one another with contempt when we disagree rather than dignity. i want to bring in special olympics chairperson. he founded unite and cocreated a new venture, the dignity index which scores tweets, cable news segments, debates and speeches on a scale of 1 to 8. >> we are not scoring this segment. >> let's talk about this. when people hear, you are doing something on dignity, they think it's silly and at times so serious we need to focus on the anger in this country. why we are divided. you think that's nonsense? >> it's a missed opportunity to see the real story. we are what i call a spiritual crisis with epidemic levels of loneliness and depression and

family split apart. 100 million americans without a relationship over politics and culture. we see this in levels of breakdown of trust and institutions. all that says to me there's something else going on. it's not that we are divided on policy positions. you mention this at the beginning, the divisions of policy positions are not that big. nowhere near as big as we are led to believe. even on divisive issues like guns or immigration, the country actually has broad swaths of agreement. what we do not have is a capacity to treat each other with dignity when we disagree. >> who is responsible for that? is it lawmakers who know how to divide and raise money over it? is a journalism today who realizes dividing and causing anger gets clicks? >> yes and yes.

it's not just politicians who use contempt to raise money and mobilize the base. it's not journalists who use contempt to get ratings and mobilize audiences, it's also all of us. those of us who watch and give. we have become unwittingly participants in a cultural of contempt. >> unwittingly? >> because we think we are living up to principles by treating others with contempt. contempt operates in disguise. we don't see it in ourselves but see it in others. i watch let's say someone says watching here, if i watch fox, i will see contempt. those people are full of contempt. if you ask a facts viewer to tune in here, they will say msnbc is full of contempt. >> you think a fox viewer says those msnbc are full of contempt? they might say a lot of things but contempt is not it. but okay. >> i dare you to pull it.

when i speak to republican audiences or democratic audiences they say of course we would rather treat people with contempt but -- with dignity but the other side will not follow. republicans think democrats will treat them with hatred and contempt in the same the other way around. i'm not equalizing the policy positions. the boy is not to say that democrats are strong convictions about president biden should give up their principles and not work for immigration or reproductive rights or tax policies they believe in. our position is work hard for your positions and not compromise on any of them, but add a position. had one principle. learn how to treat people you disagree with with dignity. that is it. isolate one variable in the culture, the dignity of people you disagree with, and bring that up as you engage in

differences of opinion. it sounds so simple, but it's super complicated when you feel like the only way to advance your position is to demonize or dehumanize. >> we are living at a time when we have leaders who suddenly are not prioritizing empathy. who think saying sorry or admitting you are wrong is a sign of weakness. >> all i can say is i don't disagree with you but i think we are responsible. i have a piece i'm writing this coming out tomorrow this is watch the debate. everybody thinks the action is on the screen between trump and biden. i invite people to see the action in their own home while watching the debate. watch it with a mirror and hold it up and when you screen at that screen and you say i can't believe that blank blank trump said blanketing blank biden said. hold the mirror up and score

yourself. go on the dignity index and you get a scorecard and you can score yourself. you can score last night's segment and find how many times he used high levels of contempt bordering on violence and hatred. >> violence and hatred? if you punch the mayor or drop an f bomb you are off of it? >> if you say the other side is evil and it's us or them, you are just above violence. if you say the other side has profoundly distorted positions but i will treat them with dignity no matter what, you are not only using dignity more likely to convince them. you and i have been alive through the last eight years of presidential politics, and we have watched democrats froth at the mouth, and i say this with respect in great affection, over former president trump's words and policies.

i can empathize with why they get upset, but they haven't changed very few voters. very few voters have been changed by the contempt we hurl at them. >> a solution? >> get business, get schools, get politicians, get journalists and change the tenor of the conversation and use more dignity. >> you got one journalist tonight. centrum! it's scientifically formulated to help you take charge of your health. centrum gives every body a healthy foundation. supporting your - oops - energy, immunity and metabolism. and yours too! you did it! plus try centrum silver, now clinically proven to support memory in older adults. only purple's gel flex grid passes the raw egg test.

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that does it for us tonight. t in tomorrow and i will be talking to joe manchin. you can catch the conversation here. i wish you a good night. i will see you at the end of tomorrow.