that does it for us tonight. t in tomorrow and i will be talking to joe manchin. you can catch the conversation here. i wish you a good night. i will see you at the end of tomorrow.

good evening from new york, i am alicia menendez. we begin tonight in fort pierce, florida, where today there was another hearing in the federal criminal case over donald trump's wording of classified documents. the morning session, continuation of what we have become used to. trump-appointed judge aileen cannon entertaining wonky and far-fetched attempts by trump's legal team to dismiss the case. the afternoon focus on emotion brought by special counsel jack smith that centered around one of the most dangerous lies donald trump has ever told. you might recall in may, he seized upon an outrageous conspiracy theory, a theory based upon an extreme this characterization at the fbi search warrant of mar-a-lago. trump claimed that president biden and the fbi were, quote, locked and loaded to take me out during the 2022 search of mar-a-lago. he later boasted that biden, quote, authorized the fbi to use

deadly lethal force. what trump tried to portray as an attempt on his life really was a distortion of the standard boilerplate language that is every fbi search. it was based on this, the fbi's policy on the use of force. it says agents can respond with deadly force only when their lives are in imminent danger. that language not unique to the search of mar-a-lago. it was the very same policy the fbi used in their search of president biden's home as well. if anything throughout the process of recovering those documents from mar-a-lago, trump got unusual amount of leniency including the fbi notified the secret service before executing the warrant. one other thing. trump and his family and even at mar-a-lago while the search took place. none of those inconvenient facts stop trump's allies from amplifying the lie. >> there isn't trump will

unleash assassination squads and is enemies? biden unleashed armed agents in his health authorizing them to use deadly force.oking for a little action. >> something could've gone down beyond looking for the documents. >> why was merrick garland prepping for possible, what, shoot out? >> merrick garland issued a kill order. >> for jack smith, that was real cause for concern and in a recent filing, he urged judge cannon to impose a narrow modification to the terms of trump's release to limit what he can say. trump is left to argue the first amendment will be eroded on this he is permitted to lie about fbi agents intending to murder him and his family. the law requires no such thing. he pointed to how trump's rhetoric has led to imminent threats to law enforcement including an example the term supporter armed with a ar 15 attempting to attack fbi office after the search took place.

he pointed hours after trump posted on social media platform about the search, a supporter posted kill fbi on-site. this afternoon, jack smith's prosecutors made their case to judge cannon. they once again cited trump's balls claims that he was the target of an assassination attempt. he told the court there was no reason for such incendiary language that would apply violence, retribution from trump supporters. judge cannon announce, where'd you see the call to violence? another exchange she grew so frustrated that she's a, quote, i don't like your tone. she said that to a prosecutor just trying to protect loan forstmann from threats of violence. i wish i could say i am surprised. kristy greenberg, the criminal division in the southern district of new york. mary mccord the former deputy assistant attorney general for national security at the department of justice. katie phang is a host of the

katie phang show on msnbc . she was in court today in fort pierce. my florida woman, let's start with you. you were in the courthouse and jack smith was in the courthouse today. it seems the hearing got fairly heated at certain points. your takeaways? >> you are right about that. i was focusing on jack smith because i wanted to see his expressions on his face when david hart boxes part of special counsel legal team was having the back and forth when judge cannon, judge cannon on previous occasions with this particular attorney has had issues with him and vice versa. i don't think she appreciates the gravity of what was being presented to her because she immediately, not because there was a suggestion made by the other side in terms of the defense, but she immediately said, what about the fact that rejections have been done of the names of law enforcement and witnesses? how is that not enough for me

to consider when you're making this argument that there's danger or risk to law enforcement officers. she hung her hat on that throughout a lot of what happened today but the hearing is two hours and special counsel jack smith, poker face even when there was a lot of heated exchange between judge cannon and the attorney for the special counsel's office. there were striking things that stood out. one of the things was the special counsel saying you don't need a tragedy to strike in order to get a modification. the law supports that and that idea. there was another phrase used by the special counsel's office. they said trump has a potent tool and that's his ability to reach his followers on social media. trump himself has acknowledged in writing and verbal statements that he knows the power of social media for him. that is why there was the argument from special counsel's office that you do not need something bad to happen, you

don't need a link between the examples you read and explain to our viewers, and donald trump to say that the link creates the need. it's the threat of significant imminent, foreseeable danger to these law-enforcement officers. todd blanche on behalf of donald trump did his meandering thing that he does but he basically said judge, eventually, maybe this will have to happen. maybe a trial when witnesses are called, but otherwise you don't have a direct connection between trump and these incidents that have been raised as exhibits and examples that special counsel's motion and because of that, it's a prior restraint on free speech. he's a political candidate for the office of president on the eve of a presidential debate and you should not do it. >> mary, how would you push back against that lack of connective tissue between donald trump's words and the threat of violence against law enforcement officials? >> the way to push back is a way jack smith and his team have done, have explained in every court where they have

sought an order like this. it's different because it's about modifying the conditions of his bail in order to restrict certain speech that causes that significant and imminent, foreseeable danger to law enforcement. in every other case including in d.c. and manhattan, the prosecutors have given example after example of things that mr. trump says over social media or at campaign rallies and actions and threats taken by individuals in the united states. it might be call and threats. threatening witnesses, threatening judges staff, threatening prosecutor and their staff or actual efforts to commit an act of violence like the example from right after the search of mar-a-lago. there are many many of these that they have to .2. to suggest there is not a cause and effect, that's to ignore what several years now have shown us.

i think it was reasonable for her to ask, would rejections take care of it? what david harbach explained was even with rejections, there have been leaks of the names of those agents, and those are available out there still. they cannot be taken down once that has leaked i actually think the rejections have probably prevented them from being that tragedy that we don't want to have to wait for. somebody who is determined can find out the identity of these agents. >> she had her eyes and jack smith and you had your eyes on eileen cannon and you wrote only judge cannon could use a hearing with trump's interest lies that the fbi was out to kill him and his family as an opportunity to school the prosecutor at and not trump for lack of decorum. >> so, it makes sense to me this prosecutor was getting

fired up about this. this is a prosecutor who has worked with these agents and built this case and knows these people and knows they're putting their lives on the line every day for us. this idea that she would be so cavalier to the fact there is a threat to them, this motion by jack smith was filed one month ago. clearly she does not see imminent threat because she didn't deal with it right away. she sat on it and while sitting on it what happened? there was a: threat to an fbi agent on hunter biden's case and set of trump windsor going to jail and if trump loses, you will be slaughtered and your family will be slaughtered. those are those threats. the idea that she says where's the cause and effect and donald trump didn't tell that person to say this but donald trump can exit. he has said it in his town hall that they listen to me, my supporters listen to me like no one else. he knows the effect he has and we know the effect he has and so does judge cannon. this idea that there is not an

women a threat to these agents is frankly laughable, and the idea she's scolding the prosecutor for getting upset about that and for trying to make his point rather than say to a criminal defendant, you can talk about the case agents that way. you can say these things. any other criminal defendant or any judge would school the defendant for making statements like that. >> she's not moving with alacrity, what comes next for this motion? >> she is allowing each side to be able to file supplements, if they want to. for viewers to understand, these hearings you have to have record evidence. the government relied upon 11 exhibits and supplemented with two extra was. a truth social post in another post that was done last year. the judge is allowing a couple more days reach side to decide if they want to supplement because there were additional exhibits included in the government which is the last thing the government filed. i'm not holding my breath on having any time a quick thing.

as christy notes, this was filed in may after a particularly bad week, a really egregious posten statements by donald trump. june 24, we are having this hearing. i don't expect her to rule on it soon and if i had to read tea leaves i would say she will deny the motion for bond modification. it seems it's obvious she thought the laws of facts were on the defense side. the defense had their work done for them today by judge cannon. todd blanche didn't have a lot to have to say when he got up to speak, and the burden was on the government because it was there motion but i want to make it clear. the government and seek a gag order because they anticipated a free speech prior restraint argument. we have seen gag order's and judge chutkan and justice and gorn as well as judge merchan. they had to go the bond modification route in florida because it's judge cannon and they knew there would be a prior

restraint argument that would come from the defense. >> i wonder what you make of the fact that jack smith chose the state to be in court? >> i think it shows the solidarity with the agents that have built this case whose lives are at risk because the dangerous rhetoric and lies that trump is telling. i do think it's important and we've seen special counsel in court, not every hearing it either mar-a-lago or in d.c. but as often as possible. it's a signal to send. it sends the message that the prosecutor arguing has the full backing of the special counsel himself. and so, that's something that a judge cannot think, maybe this prosecutor is going beyond what the special counsel would want. special counsel is sitting right there and he can have a conversation with the prosecutor on his team if he wanted to do so. it firms up that support for

the arguments being made. i would also add to katie's point about why they decided moving to modified conditions of release as opposed to a gag order, i agree the first amendment applies a little differently but i think it's the right thing to do because this is pretty typical in a case where you have a defendant who is saying things that are threatening to witnesses including law enforcement. it's a typical condition of release to require them not to make those kinds of statements or threats. it's very typical to say you cannot have conversations with witnesses. in fact, here trump was ordered not to have conversations with even his codefendants except to the extent that he is still working for him and he has to have conversations related to work. >> i want to ask you, to their part of what happened this morning. trump saying this is all

president biden pulling the strings and you have his legal team arguing that jack smith has no oversight. which is it? >> joe biden has nothing to do with this. he put forth merrick garland. it is merrick garland's department of justice and joe biden has nothing to do with it. as to merrick garland's oversight, special counsel says there is some oversight. special counsel regulations provide for that. it's a balance between independence and some accountability. anytime there's a significant event, there has to be notification from special counsel to merrick garland. what does it mean? likely a search warrant on a former president's resident. they didn't go into details but the regulations provide for some limited oversight for these notifications to happen. special counsel is going rogue and doing things they run afoul of doj rules, the attorney general can say i am overruling

you. i am not you do it. >> kristy greenberg, mary mccord, katie phang, thank you. the president of the united states and the convicted felon may walk on a debate stage. it is happening and happening thursday night. our friend tim miller and claire mccaskill are standing by and will join me. me.

as we content to the debate, none of this is normal. we've never seen a presidential debate as early in the election cycle as this one. one of the candidates is a convicted felon and that candidates are busy trying to reset expectations he's accusing the current president of using performance enhancing drugs. with that disclaimer, it's worth pointing out there are trendlines moving in president biden's favor. don't take my word for it. karl rove on fox news over the weekend. >> there has been a trend since

it may 30 guilty verdict in the new york case. the movement is among independence and they have moved in recent polls roughly 9 points toward biden and that's where it's coming from. 21% of independents in a survey shortly after the conviction said they were the less likely to vote for donald trump as a result of the conviction. >> question now? how does biden take advantage of those trends on thursday night? how does he make the cased undecided voters watching that trump's criminality should matter to them? the biden campaign coach offered this road map yesterday. >> the fact of the matter is the sky is blue and donald trump is a convicted felon. the american people have to sit on that a second. the person who wants to be present has to sit with his probation officer before he goes to the debate. it's a fact but it's not just

to called donald trump a convicted felon because to his behavior and his character. he has filed bankruptcy six times. he's not just a bad business man but he screwed all the small people who relied on him for a living. the american people are going to see that. >> tim miller, former republican strategist and host of the bulwark podcast and claire mccaskill's former senator from missouri and host of how to win 2024 and both are msnbc contributors and both are going to be in atlanta for the debate this week. i want you to pick up where mitch left off? the question of donald trump's criminality. there is doubt whether or not president biden was going to go after former president trump on this question. we have seen the biden campaign release that adware goes squarely after him on this topic. do you think he goes after him on thursday? >> i think he will go after him.

i don't know how important it is to remind everyone that donald trump is a felon. i think everyone knows he has been convicted. there is this calcified group of people that are believing what trump is saying that somehow it's not a valid conviction. it is more important for joe biden to go after donald trump literally, he needs to be the state of a the union joe biden. what a gift he has been given. think about it. trump has spent the last six months telling everybody that joe biden cannot walk or talk. all joe biden has to do is show scrappy joe biden from scranton. he doesn't respect trump. he knows trump allies all the time and needs to say shut up, man and stop your yapping into of those things to put trump in his place and stand up to him. it is about biden showing strength and not so much what he says. >> it's funny the senator used the term junkyard dog over the weekend which i think does some

of the president biden we may see. at the same time you have joe biden preparing for this debate, you have reports that trump is not doing mock debates with anyone and instead he's meeting with senator j.d. vance, marco rubio, eric schmidt. i wonder what that tells you about the performance he's planning to put on thursday? >> well, i can't believe it comes out of the trump world. i take all the reports from what's happening in trump world with a grain of salt. i think what we can see publicly is donald trump is concerned about how this debate is being framed as you lead to the debate. that is why he is doing the weird stuff about joe biden being on drugs. it's worth reminding that he tried this in 2020 in a losing debate. you don't remember that because time is a flat circle. he

already tried this joe biden is on drugs thing and it didn't work then. joe biden is a teetotaler and it's absurd. you see it with him, the example where he started to say was not to be called the troops suckers and losers. that also shows he's a little worried and thinking about what joe biden's attacks might be and he's trying to take the air out of the balloon ahead of time. there is evidence that trump feels, concerned about the debate. how that manifests in his weird mind to whether he is prepping, i'm not sure. we can see he is concerned. >> i think we accept there's asymmetry in terms of the fact that we expect president biden to talk about policy, talk about his record, talk about the things he would want to do in a second term. we don't necessarily expect that trump over the weekend, i was able to speak with kevin roberts, head of the heritage foundation and asked about

project 2025 and said it was about extending trumpism. i know you don't need the reminder. project 2025, a blueprint to disassemble the state and implement christian nationalist agenda. how does trump take that -- how can biden pin that on trump? >> he can do it pretty simply. the campaign for biden is all about contrast. it's competence versus chaos. darkness versus light. is a polonius philanderer versus a family man. it is job creation versus saying america sucks. this really is such a contrast and biden just has to keep drawing that contrast. it is protecting women's freedoms versus breaking up a bringing down roe v. wade. there are so many things where biden can quickly pivot to the contrast. it's going to be very hard for trump to do anything but lather and lie.

is when we see when he has debated before, he doesn't do well when called to task. if the microphones are not on one is not his turn to talk, i think this could go very badly for donald trump. we will see. frankly, i'm not sure it will make a huge amount of difference either way how the debate goes except i do believe these independent voters, as they watch trump more on social media, they see how unhitched he has become with weird stuff. he is saying really weird stuff now. stuff that makes no sense. >> every time i get a verbatim of some of his speech and i tried to read it, i realize this makes no sense and i couldn't deliver a worthy performance of it. let's talk about the independence that the senator referenced. i feel naked here without my karl rove whiteboard but you saw those numbers.

there moving in the right direction for president biden. claire gives a little sense why she thinks it is and i want to know why you think we are seeing that movement, and also, what could happen on thursday night they could further extend those numbers? >> i think there two groups that are the key for joe biden when it comes to continuing to improve the numbers. i think he's been doing better with both groups which is what karl rove was talking about. a rare moment of facts over there. that was refreshing to hear. the group is the double haters, independents that don't like joe biden. they really dislike donald trump, hate is a rightward with donald trump. feelings of biden are more mixed. they think he's too old. he is starting to improve with that group and i think he can continue if he puts up a compelling performance, strong performance on thursday. the other group is democratic coalition group. younger voters. voters of color, men, black and

hispanic men traditionally voted with the democrats. a lot of them are unhappy about inflation. younger voters may be about gaza or other related issues. biden has to seal up that base and he can improve his numbers by finishing the job of consolidating people that are traditionally in the democratic camps. those other two he needs to talk to. >> in recent biden ads, they've been going over the concept of inflation is actually being about corporate greed. tim miller, claire mccaskill, thank you for being with us. today marks two years since the supreme court overturned roe v. wade. the antichoice movement, they're just getting started. democratic senator standing by and she joins me after a quick break. ck break.

today marks two years since the supreme court struck down roe v. wade and strip to a constitutional right that americans had for nearly 50 years. since then, abortion has been banned in 17 states. one and three, all women of reproductive age live in states where abortion is totally are mostly banned. the antiabortion movement, they are not going to stop there. my cohost simone's -- spoke to the president of the heritage foundation.

one of the architects of project 2025. the blueprint for trump if he wins in november. i want to play one exchange from our interview. >> does heritage and project 2025 believe a woman should be able to have an abortion if her doctor says she needs one? yes or no. >> abortion is not health care. >> abortion is not health care. tell that to the countless women's whose lives have been put at risk like the woman in oklahoma who was told to sit in the parking lot until her cancerous pregnancy got worse. the woman in ohio who was bleeding profusely from a miscarriage and was sent home to wait. the woman from louisiana who was featured in an ad for the biden campaign. >> i was around 11 weeks when i had a miscarriage, feeling was excruciating. i was turned away from two emergency rooms. it was a direct result of trump overturning roe v. wade. he is a convicted felon and he

thinks he should not be held accountable for his own criminal actions but he will let women and doctors be punished. >> joining me democratic senator catherine cortez masto of nevada. thank you for being with us. i hope you heard the architect of project 2025 says abortion is not health care. your response? >> like so many women are outraged because it is health care. let me just say from a state of nevada, proud third generation, were a pro choice state and a third of voters choose a woman's right to choose. we passed a law codifying that in our statutes and it will be on the ballot but is no different than the majority of the country. there's not just women but men and republicans and democrats, nonpartisan, believe in a woman's right to choose. as you just pointed out, there is ultra conservative right wing that doesn't think the majority that think women know

better and trying to prevent us from accessing 21st-century medication and they will do what they can. whether passing a ban, using a right-wing court right now are continuing to use the state houses and legislature. that's what was important for me along with tina smith, my colleague from minnesota and so many colleagues to actually stop the comstock act and introduce legislation to protect women's rights. >> i want you to talk about that legislation. comstock act can seem like a nebulous, wonky policy and it's a zombie law. a thing we shouldn't be talking about and yet because the antiabortion movement is insatiable, it's very likely the next frontier of this fight, how with this address that challenge? >> that is right. there's an old law from the 1800s that prevents us from sending mifepristone, the

medicaid abortion, which right now we can access in nevada and across the country. it is not illegal. the project 2025 and ultra right conservatives with the help of donald trump, he is the one that will help them do this if he gets back in the white house, they will invoke the comstock act because it's already thought that says you cannot transport through the mail this type of literature related to abortion or something like medicated abortion pill. they will try to use it. that's why it's important to introduce legislation to prevent that from happening and that's with this legislation does. it's why we call it stop the comstock act. let me bring it home. this is the two year anniversary of the overturning of roe versus wade which we all remember where we were. i remember exactly where i was at that moment and it went to supreme court steps and protested and outraged by so many. it wasn't the opinion

that said, let's leave it to the states. what we have seen is that opinion open the door to not only invoking state's rights but overturning states rights and allowing states to criminalize women if they want to travel, criminalize doctors in states like nevada if they want to help women with their health care needs when it comes to reproductive freedom, to stop contraception, stop access to mifepristone which we just talked about. to stop ivf. i could go on and on. it's a concerted effort of the right wing with the help of donald trump to do what they can to prevent women's freedoms in this country when it comes to reproductive rights. that is what this is about and they will not stop and you have to look at that manifesto which is what i call it of the ultraconservative that project 2025. they talk how they are going to

do it and we've got to believe them when they say they will do this which is take away women's freedoms. >> i was struck by recent biden campaign ad where they're talking about abortion access and land on, we are up against extremism and it made me think of when i interviewed you one and a half years ago when i would speak to voters in nevada, a lot of them older latinas are often misunderstood on this issue, the way they talk about abortion was a question of extremism that republicans were simply overreaching. when you talk to nevadans today, what you hear from them? >> you are right. nevada, what i have to say it's a proud pro-choice state and runs the gamut for men, women, democrats, republicans and the reason why i was reelected is because what you said. people saw what was happening with reproductive freedom for women and they wanted to stand guard to make sure there could not be a federal abortion ban if republicans took control of the senate. that is still, that is the tone of people in nevada right now.

i believe a majority of this country believes the same way. there is a minority that thinks they know better than women, no better than doctors, that they should prevent women from accessing 21st-century health care and medication. it is outrageous. that is why we have to be just as vigilant and push back. we have to support and elect pro-choice candidates, we have to get joe biden elected because he stands with us. we have to get jackie rosen reelected in the state of nevada with her. she has set a record/there's so much at stake in this election whether it's who we elect or who sits on the federal courts or who sits in the white house and our state houses. we have to push back and have a strategy to continue moving forward. that's why we have to pass the stop comstock act and pass legislation that protects

women's freedoms. >> catherine cortez masto is leading the charge in the u.s. senate, senator, thank you. if there's one thing people in terms orbit might have learned from him, maybe the art of the grip. he was taking notes, we have brand reporting when we come back. try dietary supplements from voltaren, for healthy joints. i still love to surf, snowboard, try dietary supplements from voltaren, and, of course, skate. so, i take qunol magnesium to support my muscle and bone health. qunol's extra strength, high absorption magnesium helps me get the full benefits of magnesium. qunol, the brand i trust.

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under a cloud a suspension stemming from contacts with then russian ambassador. the fbi was questioning him about the contacts. in a month, he was out of a job after it became clear he misled the trump administration about them. he has rebranded as something of a hero on the fringe of the far right. headlining events across the country paying lip service to all kinds of ridiculous qanon adjacent conspiracy theories. a new piece the "new york times" reports that rebrand is proven very lucrative to flynn and his family. , quote, "new york times" investigation found flynn family members meet $2.2 million monetizing michael flynn's right wing stardom in recent years with more than half of that going to flynn directly. the report indicates the number is an underestimated the cash is brought in on the greatest circuit including 60 grand a year for what was a no-show job

as the chairman of the conservative charity. michael flynn is hardly the first one of trump's inner circle to use notoriety as a launchpad to right wing grafting. rudy giuliani, the twice indicted former mayor of new york city recently got in the game. >> you will know i stand by the truth and if i put my name on something, i truly believe it. today, i am thrilled to introduce you to something i am incredibly proud of. i own brand of organic specialty coffee. believe me when i say it's the best coffee you will ever try. >> because we can't all sell bibles. the best coffee you will try. mike lindell, one of the top promoters of donald trump's lie of the stolen election made his name selling pillows which a top amazon review" mac super lumpy. all these grifters were simply learning from the best. his entire career has been one long grift knew we could dedicate an hour to his schemes from instances of several

business brought a bogus trump university to trump wine, trump vodka, perfume. is postpresidential griffiths i guess personal brand of digital trading cards and those shiny gold sneakers. david has been covering these for years including the latest reporting on michael flynn and joins me to break it all down. .

you probably haven't spent a lot of time thinking of former trump national security adviser michael flynn since he resigned in disgrace. reporter david fahrenthold has been keeping close tabs on him because flynn has spun his notoriety into a lucrative career among the far right. as he writes in the "new york times" since leaving the trump administration under ethical clout, michael flynn converted his trump world celebrity into a lucrative and sprawling family business. he and his relatives marketed the retired general as a martyr, raising hundreds of thousands of dollars a legal defense fund and pocketing

leftover money. sound familiar? david fahrenthold is an investigator reporter and joins me now. you say flynn has manufactured a sprawling family business. what does it look like? >> it's got for profit and nonprofit arms. two nonprofits he and his family have been involved in. one that has employed six different members of his family. he has for profit investments with a reawakened tour, this christian nationalist tour and a penny stock company and sells t-shirts. there's a variety of things but they are aimed at the same audience. people who believe that mike flynn is a martyr, martyr to the far right cause and he has pushed a little more by reaching out to people who want to believe in even further right conspiracy theories. he has sucked up and amplified the qanon conspiracy theories to increase the scope of his empire. >> the scope of his empire.

my goodness. what can you tell about his work with the conservative group america's future? >> it's a nonprofit started in the 1940s, anti-communist for a long time but by the time flynn took it over it was, storm and. it's main leaders had died. he takes it over and it's $3 million in the bank but a blank slate. what he did was put a bunch of his relatives on the payroll. it's paying him, the organization that is so small that the board and the chairman work for free. in this case, he paid himself. paid himself 40,000 the first year and 60,000 the second year for working two hours a week and he paid his brother and two of his sisters and one of his nieces and his sister-in-law. at a time in the nonprofit wasn't doing that well, losing money, going through savings and selling off assets. he tripled the amount he was paying his relatives.

>> what have you heard from flynn and his family? >> we spent time trying to reach out to them. we called and sent questions and didn't get a response from any of them. we reached out to loved ones and we heard of one of his lawyers who said two things. whatever they get paid whether from the legal defense fund or the nonprofit or from the for profit, they earned it all. it was all work they had earned. number 2, if there were errors and appears there were errors in the filings with the government, instances where they left out what they were supposed to declare when they were doing business with family members. when that was left out, the lawyer said those were unintentional. >> every time we talk about one of the stories, who is buying into this? who is hearing these pleas and reaching into their own wallet to grab their credit card and sign up for this grift?

>> that evolved. the first thing flynn did to raise money for this nonprofit, he was using it to pay himself, was a strict patriotism appeal. become a member of america's future and got a pocket constitution and signed things with his name on them and a t- shirt. it was be a great american and join us for $100. it didn't work that well. looks like they got 170 people to sign up which was non-enough to support the burn rate they were going through the cash. then they turned to a different audience, qanon and qanon adjacent audience. after a couple years of poor financial performance was appealing to the idea that there's a cabal of pedophiles behind everything. the media and politics and holding trainings you can pay $40 to go to where you can be trained by mike flynn to look

out for the forces of evil, for the forces of child exploitation which they tell you are everywhere. that turn toward the qanon conspiracy theories and it only happened after their first appeal to get members didn't work well. >> i've only got 30 seconds but to make this forward-looking, the chances he ends up if donald trump wins a second term in the white house? >> seems to be what he and folks around him expect will happen. i don't know what the job would be. he seems like someone who believes he will get a job in the next trump administration. >> david fahrenthold, thank you for being with us. a very special announcement about something we are pretty excited about on msnbc. msnbc.

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we have a very big week ahead. thursday night, rachel maddow and the team 11 special coverage and analysis of the first presidential debate. starts at 7:00 p.m. on msnbc. something else we are very much looking forward to.

our premier event, msnbc live democracy 2024 coming to new york on saturday, september 7. i'm so excited to join my colleagues for thought- provoking conversations into me to. scan the qr code on the screen to buy your tickets today. >> thank you. and thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. it's really good for you to be here. i'm going show you som