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it's 11:00 a.m. eastern now, and 8:00 a.m. pacific. i am ana cabrera in for josé diaz-balart. right now the judge overseeing the case is holding a sealed hearing, meaning no public, on issues protected by grand jury secrecy or attorney/client privilege. today's hearings come as new court filings by prosecutors contain the new photos of the boxes of documents seized during the mar-a-lago search. let's go to ken dilanian outside the courthouse in florida. also with us, former federal prosecutor and former senior

investigative house for the january 6th committee. this is day three of hearings in this case. help us to keep it all straight. what do we need to know about today's hearing? >> ana, today is an example of a hearing many legal experts say should not have happened. you have two issues that already have been ruled on by other judges. in one case the fbi is arguing -- sorry, the defense is arguing against the search warrant of mar-a-lago, and that's a motion approved by the judge above judge cannon. the more important argument today is the defense's bid to have her exclude evidence obtained by the prosecution from one of donald trump's lawyers,

evan corcoran. a d.c. judge ruled jack smith could obtain notes and communications between donald trump and one of his lawyers because the judge found those communications were in furtherance of a crime in the conspiracy to obstruct justice, and some of that evidence is some of the most important evidence in the document suggesting trump was trying to obstruct justice and now the defense is saying it should be excluded. again, a federal judge already ruled in washington and said it was okay to use, and judge cannon will be looking at this again. >> we showed some of the pictures part of the special counsel's new filing showing how the evidence was disrupted from the boxes as they were found there at trump's mar-a-lago property. what does the defense need to

prove in order to exclude this evidence? >> here they are basically trying to challenge whether or not there was probable cause to get the evidence, and if you go to a judge and get the search warrant and there has to be probable cause that the location or whatever that was seized was used to further a crime. when we are talking about the crime fraud exception, this time it's about the obstruction. evan corcoran was used to facilitate obstruction. you cannot do that as a lawyer. you get attorney client protection when your lawyer is providing legal advice, but when the lawyer is being used to commit a crime, that's when that the protection gets pierced.

and a judge already found that was excludeing the evidence in the case. judge howl does not have authority over judge cannon, but it's a big deal a judge made this ruling already. >> talk to us about the dynamics in the courtroom. the judge admonished a member of the special counsel team, right? >> yeah, that's david harbaugh. he's working for jack smith. he, in particular, had trouble hiding his exasperation with judge cannon, and in this case it was about the gag order they are trying to impose on donald trump for his misreputations about the rbi authorization for

use of force, and he got frustrated and a little chippy and at one point the judge said, i don't appreciate your tone. he later apologized. it was a tough day for the special counsel yesterday because judge cannon did not seem to accept their premise that donald trump's false statements alleging that the biden administration somehow authorized the fbi to use lethal force against him, and she did not make that connection, and that's been the case on a lot of issues in this case. >> what do you make of that exchange, the judge slapping down the tone of the prosecutor from the special counsel's team? could that affect the case at all? >> i think she has not hesitated to show distain for members in the jack smith case, and she has taken unfair attacks against the special counsel. if i am jack smith, it's more

than clear where judge cannon stands on this case. the 11th circuit that is over her slapped her down twice already and reversed her rulings and we are all waiting where she could be removed from the case. jack smith is waiting to see at what point do they say enough is enough and she should not preside over the case anymore. >> what is the threshold for him to legally make that case that she should be removed? >> what he's waiting on is a definitive decision, something he can appeal and say look how egregious and erroneous this decision is, and she's made a tactic of delay, and she pushes things later and later on perhaps trying to avoid giving that opportunity for him to appeal her. something has to give and he will challenge her authority going forward.

>> can we expect the motions to dismiss? >> reporter: if the pass is any guide, it will be a while. and maybe the subject of a future hearing about so-called spoilage, about whether the fbi messed up the evidence and it should be ruled out, and that argument was ridiculous because the boxes were in no particular order and some of them already spilled out on to the bathroom floor before the fbi got there. >> thank you for the information. thank you for the analysis. we are following more breaking news today. right now julian assange, the founder much wikileaks is on his way to enter into a plea deal with the u.s. justice department.

he had been fighting extradition to the u.s. after being charged in one of the largest leaks of classified military secrets. he's set to plead guilty to an espionage act charge. starting in 2010, remember this, wikileaks published classified documents provided by chelsea manning. they included reports from the iraq and afghanistan wars and thousands of diplomatic cables. at the height of the 2016 presidential election, wikileaks began stolen emails that were hacked by russian intelligent services. that's the backdrop here. the white house release add statement on the new plea deal saying, quote, this was an independent decision made by the department of justice and there was no white house involvement in the plea deal decision. josh, how did this all come

together and what comes next? >> according to stella assange, his wife, and he was preparing for the appeal in the extradition case in the u.s. and maintaining they were seeking extradition for him to face trial on well over a dozen counts in the united states. last night he was brought to the airport and released on bail and allowed to board a plane, and fly to bangkok to refuel and then to a location that has a u.s. federal courthouse. he's going to appear there in court tomorrow. according to what has been filed in court, he was reluctant to set foot in the united states, and there is an arrangement where he will appear for a judge tomorrow for a plea of guilty to one charge. he's expected to be sentenced to

62 months, which is the exact amount of time he already served in prison as he has been awaiting his extradition, and that means time served for him to walk free once he gets to australia. his wife said this could fall apart any minute, and she is reluctant to take it seriously until she sees her husband walking free. >> why now? why would the doj go ahead with the deal? >> we don't know. we know it has been a years' long saga, and the u.s. suffered a major blow when the british court granted that full appeal to his extradition, meaning the proceedings in the uk to take a long time to resolve before he could see a court in the united states where the u.s. would have

to disclose information about the classified documents in the course of making their case. we know the biden administration has been under immense political pressure as well, not only from many americans who support julian assange, but also the australians who feel like the legal saga has gone on far too long and questioned if the u.s. had jurisdiction to try and seek prosecution of assange. >> stay with us. julian assange's brother will join us. and the surgeon general joining us live to explain what this means. and donald trump is changing his tune when it comes to president biden's debate skills. we're back in 90 seconds.

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done in the past with successful efforts to address tobacco related disease and motor vehicle crashes and this comes a week after the surge general called for warnings on social media. thank you so much for taking the time. why are you calling for this now? >> gun violence has become a public health crisis in america and it's one having far-reaching consequences for millions of americans. the highest price we pay for gun violence is the lives we lose, and for one person that loses their life, there's two injured. there are millions of others who listen and hear about gun violence each and every day. that has led to a directive trauma in our country where 6 out of 10 people are worried about losing a loved one to gun violence. more than half of our kids are worried about a shooting in

school. most importantly, and this is important to me as a parent, gun violence has become the leading cause of death among children and teens. it was not true a decade ago or two decades ago, and it's true today. gun violence has become a kids' issue and it's a public health issue that merits a public health approach. we have taken public health approaches to tobacco and car-related deaths over the years and been able to reduce the toll of the public health challenges and we can do the same thing here with gun violence and it's urgent we do so. >> let me reiterate what you said. as a parent it hits home with me as well. gun violence kills more children than any other cause, surpassing car accidents. the amount of children dying from gun violence is five times

higher than canada, and 22 times higher than australia. that's mind-blowing. why is that? what will change with this advisory? what is actually actionable? >> the good news is there's a lot we can do to address gun violence. many people look at the issue and see it's been polarized and politicized and one of my goals here is to take the issue out of the realm of politics and put it into the realm of public health, which is where it belongs. what history also told us is that even though it's a complex and complicated issue we can do hard things as a country. in 1964 when the surgeon general issued a report on tobacco for the first time, many people at that time said, you know, this is part of the fabric of america, smoking, kids smoke, doctors smoked at that time and nearly half of the country smoked and because that report catalyzed a series of actions at the community level and schools

and law-making bodies, we were able to reduce smoking from 42% to below 12%, and that's real progress. i laid out a series of strategies to expand community violence programs, and i put forth strategies around firearm risk reduction as well as well as expansion of mental health services, which together can help us address the lives lost and the lives changed and deeply affected by gun violence. >> once something is declared a public health crisis, besides making that symbolic statement, what changes? does it empower doctors or authorities in a new way? >> what we have seen historically, when the surge general's office identified as a public health crisis, it does give doctors, community leaders,

educators and lawmakers tools and ideas that they can use to help address this crisis. that's what this advisory contains. if there was nothing we could do about the problem, that would be one thing. but there's a lot we can do. we have to act with urgency, though, because what is at stake is the health and well-being of our children. >> here's the statement from the nra responding to this action. quote, this is an extension of the biden administration's war on law-abiding gun owners. america has a crime problem caused by criminals. the reluctance to prosecute and punish criminals on the part of the biden administration and many of his allies is the primary cause of that. that's a simple fact, they argue. what is your response? >> well, this is one of the reasons it's so important for us to understand the science and the facts behind gun violence. when you dig in, you will find as we laid out in our advisory that about 56% of gun violence-related deaths are suicides and 40% of them are homicides. there's another smaller percent,

around 5%, that include accidental deaths like when a child finds an unlocked and loaded weapon in the home and winds up hurting themselves or somebody else. there's not one simple solution to gun violence. we have to take multiple steps at the same time. this is true with making cars safer and addressing tobacco and disease, and we have to get it out of the realm of politics and polarization and see it clearly for what it is. i know from conversations around the country that people of all backgrounds, political backgrounds, life experience backgrounds, age, racial backgrounds, everybody wants to live in a community that is safe and to be able to send their kids to school without worrying about their safety. they want to go to the grocery store, to work, to the movies and church without worrying that they will be shot and lose their lives. we do not need to live with the

kind of fear people are experiencing right now. >> i think americans can be united on wanting gun violence to be solved, to be reduced, to protect all people in this country. surgeon general dr. vivek murthy, thank you for taking the time to share what this means. now from last hour, the white house says the justice department will appeal a federal judge's ruling blocking the administration from forgiving millions of dollars in student loans. several states sued to block the plan, and the administration took this step after the supreme court rejected the biden administration's relief plan. we are watching the supreme court set to release more rulings in the next three days. major decisions we are still

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advisers are discussing how the president could respond to policy requests and ways to throw donald trump off his game. meanwhile, after calling biden the worst debater he ever faced and mocking his cognitive abilities, trump is raising expectations for his 2024 rival and says he won't underestimate him. nbc's vaughn hillyard joins us for more on this. when it comes to the debate, what are the expectations among trump's circle? >> yeah, i think right when the debate was initially agreed to, there was a different posture towards what the american public should anticipate out of trump's rival, the current president biden. donald trump wrote on his social media account, quote, joe biden is the worst debater i ever faced. he can't put two sentences together, and he went on to say, just tell me when and i will be

there. now the trump campaign putting out a statement ahead of the atlanta debate, and he writes, the media wants to lower joe biden's debate performance bar so low that he gets a participation trophy simply for standing up right for 90 minutes, and he said he pete paul ryan pretty badly, and i assume he will be somebody that will be a worthy debater. i would say i don't want to underestimate him. different expectations from donald trump as we are just a little over 48 hours from the debate in atlanta. >> thank you. and now a republican strategist and msnbc political strategist, and christina greer. ladies, so good to have you here. what do you make, susan, of donald trump now changing his expectations when it comes to biden? >> donald trump saying one thing

one day and another thing another day, and i would say that's not surprising. i think he got feedback in his polling numbers that says he's in trouble, and when he goes after biden the way he has thus far, it hurts him with the independent voters. i think we will see a tamed down donald trump when it comes against biden directly, but i think donald trump will use the moderators as away of attacking biden and trying to make it looks like, oh, they are on his side. you are not asking the tough questions. i think he will tweak it that way. donald trump is in for a challenge, no doubt about it. >> hard to know what will come on thursday. we have seen the men debate before, christina, and time has passed and the nation is so polarized right now, and when you look at voter expectations here. recent polling say 1 in 4 voters say neither joe biden or trump have the mental and cognitive

health to serve as president. >> both are rusty. joe biden has not had to debate in quite sometime and trump chose not to debate his opponents in the primary, and a rally is not a debate, and he's been out there speaking but that's different than a one owe on one. don't fight with crazy in the street -- >> yeah, everybody gets dirty. >> i think joe biden needs to focus on what he has done and what he is doing, abortion, immigration, crime, and those will be the three issues that donald trump -- crime and immigration especially that trump will talk about, and abortion, young people care about the issue and it's a winning issue. it will be hard to fact check

donald trump in real time. the lies come quickly. >> yeah. >> and hopefully the moderators will be on alert because that's the style of donald trump. >> as you point out, it's difficult to fact check everything, and the goal is to hear what each man has to say, like it or not. hillary clinton is somebody who debated both, biden and trump, and he wrote an op-ed in the "new york times," saying, quote, expectations for donald trump are so low, if he doesn't light himself on fire, people will think he's down right presidential. >> the minute he doesn't go crazy, people will be, wait, what is he talking about? my guess is he will be prepared to talk about things and answer the questions thoroughly. i want to add to what you said, christine, which is that the issues for biden are really

important, and abortion, absolutely. i wanted to talk about health care and how he has lowered drug prices like insulin, and what drugs he will lower next and talk about affordable housing and link it to the future and the dream we have now, because that's part of it, younger people don't see a way forward of living the american dream like their parents did. they can't afford a house and can barely afford to move out of their parents' house. if crazy shows up, so be it, but joe biden has got to talk about the issues and the future. >> on the policy promises, i'm curious to get your take on what we just heard from elizabeth warren, and related to the issue of abortion is a big issue this election cycle. we obviously recognized the anniversary of the dobbs decision just this week. take a listen to senator warren.

>> if joe biden is elected to the white house and we have a democratic majority in the house, even the skinny, skinny, democratic majority in the house and we have a democratic majority in the senate, then we are going to make roe v. wade law of the land. count on it. >> she said count on it. how realistic is that? >> i hope very realistic. there are a lot of questions about immigration, and people want to know how we are going to incorporate migrants, and if joe biden has been successful time after time creating different policies in different states and federally, he has to make sure he articulates that to the american public so they can see what he has done and what he is has continued to do.

he will throw these things out, but that's not the case. >> don't be surprised if he starts backing some of those things up. even though he's not preparing, per say, i think he will be looking to back some of that, and to use two minutes successfully. >> i mean, here's the thing, so there were lots of successes under donald trump but that doesn't mean that he was at the forefront -- >> oh, i am not saying he won't be lying. i am just saying he will have more than just a bombastic answer. >> not that they will be in his ear on the stage, conspiracy theories. >> yeah, donald trump likes to prepare more than he admits to, and he's like the kid in high

school, oh, i didn't study, and you did study, and joe biden has a lot of wins under his belt he can talk about. >> thank you, ladies, for this fun conversation. i am curious to see what comes of the debate. we will all be watching. thank you both. just a programming note, a reminder this thursday we will have special coverage here, rachel maddow and team will lead the coverage and analysis of the first debate hosted by cnn. can you watch thursday beginning at 7:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc. up next, we are still awaiting some historic decisions from the supreme court, including the one on presidential immunity. we will tell you which justice our next guest says could split the conservatives. plus, protecting some of new york city's most vulnerable people, the elderly in the lgbtq community. we will show you the safe and affordable housing development that has become the largest of

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welcome back. it's shaping up to be a very busy week for the u.s. supreme court as it's set to issue rulings tomorrow, thursday and friday. we will bring those breaking news rulings to you here on msnbc. the justices have yet to rule on many of the high profile cases, like emergency abortion care,

and january 6th riot charges. joining me, senior legal affairs reporter for politico. he was one of the reporters that had the reporting on the leaked draft of the roe v. wade overturn. how unusual is it to have this many still left and do you expect all of them to come down before the end of the week? >> well, it's not too unusual, ana, for the biggest cases to be last to the last few days of the season. i think a number of the cases that at this point you would have to call the under card here would be a standout, very big cases in a more normal term. when you have the possibility of a criminal prosecution of a former president trump who is

running for president again, and it's one of the cases you are deciding, and i think everything else starts to pale in comparison. >> tomorrow, thursday and friday, we will get decisions but we don't know which ones and on what days. we will report them out in real time. it will be interesting to see how the decisions split. you know in a recent piece, looking at the justices within the six conservative arm of the justices, amy coney barrett could be splitting. how serious is the potential split? >> this is a little controversial thing to highlight, ana, because many people, frankly on both sides of the political divide are fond of talking about the 6-3 conservative court, and the super majority. you have the six justices, three

of whom appointed by former president trump, a very conservative court. occasionally you see the rifts between them and we have detected a rift between amy coney barrett, who is sort of the youngest justice on the court but also the most recent of the trump appointees, and some of the older conservatives on the court, justices like clarence thomas and samuel alito. as you know, it's primarily over what has become a mainstay of the supreme court's decision making in the last few years, which is to act like historians and go back and look at what they call history and tradition and then make decisions like the dobbs decision that you mentioned at the outset of the segment, and they delve into history from the 1700s and going back to the 1300s, believe it or not, to make the judgments.

justice barrett, while she went along with it two years ago signaled a little discomfort with some of the work that the court has been doing in this area of history and tradition. >> josh, i appreciate your insights. thank you very much for joining us. now back to one of our top stories today. just ahead, we will talk to julian assange's brother, and his own conversation with julian assange today. plus, 55 years ago this week, the stonewall up rising in new york city, we will take you to stonewall house to see how it continues to fight to protect the elderly members of the lgbtq community. ♪♪ our cleaning pad has hundreds of scrubbing strips that absorb and lock dirt away, ♪♪ and it has a 360-degree swivel head that goes places a regular mop just can't.

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the stonewall up rising 55 years ago, and those who ever since bravely have come out to fight for the rights and now many of those pioneers are elders that need a safe and aphone affordable place to live. >> this is stonewall house and it's here in new york and opened five years ago in late 2019. it's the largest lgbtq affordable housing for elders. stretching 17 stories above brooklyn, stonewall house is like the end of the rainbow, a treasure for lgbtq+ elders, including howard grossman and bradford smith, who have been a couple for more than 40 years. >> stonewall house has been a nice and comfortable place for us to finally settle down. >> basically we are on the same boat. we are getting older and aging and have our health issues.

it's like a family, like one big family. >> they moved here four years ago after entering a lottery. 2,000 signed up for just 145 apartments. >> you win the lottery to get into here, and did you feel like you won the lottery in life? >> definitely. >> friends of ours that are gay and being seniors, they don't know where they are going to go. >> 48% same-sex couples looking for housing were subjected to discrimination, and sage offers a group for lgbtq elders. michael adams is sage's ♪♪ >> reporter: it's not just affordable housing. the community center at stonewall house offers a wide

range of programs, including painting. barbara doesn't live here, but the 80-year-old does walk here, five times a week, a mile each way, to be with fellow members of the lgbtq+ community. >> it creates family for me that i do not have. these people mean everything to me. when i come in, i'm received with love. i just appreciate it so much. >> reporter: the place is named after the stonewall uprising in 1969, that's when police raided a popular gay bar called the stonewall inn and the community fought back. it was a turning point in the battle for lgbtq+ rights. >> what stonewall represented was you are not going to shut us up. we want to be ourselves. >> reporter: it must have a lot of meaning. >> very much so. symbolic and as a hole. proud.

>> reporter: for howard and bradford and worried about where they would live together in retirement as an openly gay couple, stonewall house is the answer. this is home? >> this is home. >> definitely, for sure. >> reporter: sage is working with other communities all across the country to try to replicate this. there are places similar open in minneapolis. one opened in san diego. dallas is building one as well. clearly, the need for affordable housing for seniors is great. but when you look at the issue of the lgbtq community and the discrimination, you see why this is necessary. >> thank you for shining light. up next, julian assange's brother is going to join us. what's next for the wikileaks founder? the only migraine medication that helps treat and prevent, all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine

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we are back with more on one of our top stories. julian assange is on his way to

a remote pacific island where he is expected to enter a plea deal from the u.s. government after being released from a british government. it could conclude a global intelligence scandal that has lasted 14 years. joining us now is julian assange's brother. thank you so much for taking this time with us. what is going through your mind right now with your brother heading back home? did you ever think you would see this day? >> well, look, i always had some faith that this day would come. we've been advocating for julian for many years since he's been in prison. the momentum building around the campaign has always been increasing. we have more and more supporters in the united states congress, from the democrat side and the republican side, who have been supporting julian's freedom. i had faith this day would come. the feeling of joy that i have

right now, you know, i didn't expect to be this happy that julian is finally coming home to australia. he is not quite there yet. he has one stop to make before he is back on home soil. yeah, our family, very, very relieved and incredibly overwhelmed on this day. it's going to be so good to have julian back with us. his wife and his kids, my nephews will meet him along with my dad. i wish i could be there. >> i understand you did have a chance to speak with julian this morning. what was that conversation like? >> look, i was speaking to him all week in the lead-up to this. we were going through all the logistics. he was excited. anxious and excited to be

finally free. he has been detained for the last 13 years one way or another. yeah, it's a very special time for our family, particularly after this incredibly long fight. i think we should mention the congress people who have been supporting julian as well as the normal americans who have been advocating with their representatives to get them to speak out and calling for julian's freedom. congressman massey and gosar. >> what do you know about why this is coming together now? what can you tell us about julian's health? >> well, this -- a lot of it was because of the australian government. the australian government has been advocating with the biden

administration. a couple months ago president biden was asked if he requested -- if he considered the request to drop the charges. next month, on the 10th of july, julian has an appeal hearing scheduled. that appeal hearing focused on the freedom of expression grounds related to his extradition. i think there was a little bit of a push for the doj to end this before the uk courts heard on this freedom of expression grounds. that's what they have done. they put this plea together. hopefully, it comes to an end and julian can rest and recuperate. as you said