curtain. >> it is just absurd, for them to even be raising these arguments which again, there are no facts here. really what they want to do, with the defensive saying is we want to bring in the agents. how can we say what they were doing was an egregious? unless we talked to them. fbi out to kill donald trump. >> this is of course becoming the fbi setting up donald trump . it's becoming the sole right wing conspiracy theory. there is the bathroom, that is such a beautiful shot. just a great room and all sorts of different ways, boxes aside. so, they want to get the fbi folks but it is all of course more delay. we will see where this ends up. thank you very much. alex wagner tonight starts right now with alex wagner. i missed you. >> i am quite obsessed with the

photos of mar-a-lago as you are. there is like an elaborate chandelier like wall scones in the bathroom where there is also am i to believe eight tension -- >> attention rod shower curtain holder. >> talk about hi-lo. >> that is the highest of high low. that is my favorite detail, the tension rod shower curtain next to the chandelier. >> i mean i guess -- maybe choose. >> having them in treating material --

>> 2008 and 2012 and 2020. we're not even counting 2024, yet. >> in the moment as few words as possible would probably be this one. >> an editorial in the los angeles times that in addition to his uncontrolled verbosity, biden is a gaffe machine. can you reassure voters in this country that you have the discipline that you would need on the world stage, senator? >> yes. >> thank you, senator biden >> that was joe biden during the 2008 democratic presidential primary debates. while moments like that did not win biden the democratic nomination, we later learned that the performance on stage was a real factor in why barack obama chose joe biden to be his running mate.

>> by contrast, there is his opponent, donald trump. >> he is not a creature of restraint. told his interview that he thinks debating is an attitude more than it is anything else. >> a lot of people thought in the first debate with biden that you were somewhat over amped. that you just went after him too much. >> trump, that i interrupted him. >> do you agree with that?

>> trump answer than after a short pause he defended the interruptions before conceding that yes there were too many. so yes, even donald trump is aware that his attitude can hurt him on the debate stage especially when he is over amped . >> let's vote now -- make sure you in fact let people know. the question is -- would you shut up, man. >> trumps attitude problems do not end with his treatment of his opponents. >> you have repeatedly, you have repeatedly -- i'm asking you -- >> i would love to -- >> if you want to switch seats we can do that --

>> donald trump is also at his worst when he is on the defensive. >> i have to see this, i have to say this. he hit my hand. are they small hands? and he referred to my hands if they are small, something else might be small and i guarantee are you -- you there is no problem. >> not that effective and just really gross. as the debates have shown us, trump is defensive about a lot of things and not just his undersized hands, but also his cozy relationship with certain autographs. >> from everything i see has no respect

>> it is like watching someone pour water into a battery pack. >> at-bat of the no puppet defense was it was not nearly as shocking were not nearly as qualifying as's defense of election denial back in 2016. >> sir that you absolutely accept the result of the selection. >> i will look at it at the time. i will look at it at the time. >> are you not prepared now -- >> what i am saying is i will tell you at the time. i will keep you in suspense. >> trumps most infamous moment in any debate was when he was forced to respond to a question about his relationship with white supremacist and offered not a condemnation, but a call to arms.

>> give me a name, give me a name. >> stanback and standby. >> if you are the biden campaign right now reviewing trumps worst debate moments, it is clear that there is a lot to work with. a long list of actions he is taken on behalf of everyday americans. or the historically strong american economy he is overseeing which by the way the world bank recently said is so strong that it actually

bolstered the entire world economy after a global pandemic focusing on all of that, how much time should he focus on the autocrat admiring, the small hands likes to interrupt everyone all the time. >> it's pretty clear. >> joining me now, cohosts of pods save america. together with john lovett who is not here this evening, they are the authors of a new book. it is called democracy or else how to save democracy in 10 easy steps. think you for being here. >> before we get to the book, essential reading in this particular moment, i do want to talk about you know you guys

are astute observers of politics. you understand strategy that goes behind the scenes. and i do wonder, as we barrel toward this debate on thursday, when you think about the sort of essential question that biden is faced with, how much to run on his own record, how much to highlight what he has done on defense, what you think the breakdown is and how do you think of it strategically, john? >> what he wants to continue to do for the next four years, another slogan if people aren't feeling the effects of the legislation that has passed it, you don't want to seem like you're talking pass people donald trump is against it. i

will make a $35 for everything. >> we all agree is like a mud wrestling match as a matter of strategy, does he have to choose, can he do both? >> this is making a referendum about your accomplishments and getting defensive and sending defensive. when his mike is muted, we don't know if he's going to hogtie him. >> i think you can get out,

here is why this guy is actually just fighting for his rich donors and his friends to keep himself out of prison. >> if we could go blow-by-blow. the issues that they are likely to tackle. first and foremost, trump has been talking about the border, migrant ufc fights over the weekend, immigration, and something republicans feel like they have democrats in a corner on. if you are biden and you're talking to behind the scenes of the debate, what is the strategy for talking about the broken deal that trumper ruined on the border. and also defending the policy that he just watched. >> if it comes to him, the border first, there was a bipartisan deal of congress, this guy told republicans to kill the deal because he wanted the issue to run. it's all about politics. i just made sure that families can stay together.

been in this country for 10 years and the differences. he ripped families apart when he was president. >> they are concerned about disorder and chaos of the border and they just want a system that is regularized and works. the totality, he needs to make that case. >> i guess one of the things i worry about as you talk about holding together the democratic coalition is like, and this is a careful balance. acknowledging the chaos of the border but also not dehumanizing people were looking for a better tomorrow. i wonder if there's any peril in playing too much hardball in the topic of migrants coming

over the border. the mac i have been spending a lot of time, we do the wilderness and focus groups of latino voters and one thing that gets conflated is immigration, a lot of people see the border as separate from immigration and for a lot of these voters, the border is an issue of public safety. and so, they are saying okay new arrivals. we want people to come into this country but we wanted to be orderly. we need a border. people weapon in this country for years who may be undocumented, people are much more welcoming. i think you have to separate out what's going on at the border. we are going to be tough of the border. we don't want chaos. if you have been here for years and you been working hard and you are law abiding, we want you in this country we want to give you citizenship. >> separating the two and making it a distinction even though in theory i will just point out that the people

working to support the u.s. economy in 10 years could be the same people, but i digress. that is a level of nuance that this debate is not going to reach. trump is going to push this to the states as he has repeatedly when asked what his policy on abortion is. my question is, vote for democrats -- both for democrats and republicans in sweep -- swing states, is it ever going to get that in my state, how do you create a sense of urgency if you are joe biden around that question? >> you can tell the story, donald trump selection and how it led to this outcome. they are going to push for a federal abortion then. they are going to push for limits on ivf, they're talking about getting rid of contraception. there is is -- a radical space. there is a lot of people that don't view trump as someone who they think is socially

conservative but, his entire party is. >> if you did not -- he makes it seem like he just doesn't care about families who are trying to exercise control over a tall many -- autonomy. >> do you want to trust the guy who last time said abortion is not on the ballot, last time we debated and then now we have abortion vans one in three women live under abortion vans, are you going to trust this guy who says he's not going to do a federal abortion ban when all of the people he wants to stuff his administration with are pushing very hard to him to take action on his own to ban birth control and abortion across the country like, i don't think people want to trust that. >> we are in a week where we are waiting for several landmark decisions from the court and i kind of wonder, traditionally the supreme court gets a certain group of the electric exercise whether it is

right wing conservatives or whether it is court watching democrats to understand the dynamics. do think it carries more weight in a moment like this? we are going to have decisions tomorrow night going into this debate and i wonder if you think that is in biden's quiver. >> there is a moment where a lot of people are on this debate. a lot of people are going to happen at the court. you can make the case at the moment and sees all the opportunity to get some attention to the power of the court. the opportunity that donald trump will have to name the most right wing 32-year-old he can find, i do think it's an important case. >> the nefarious questionable activities of people like sam and clarence thomas, certainly the partisan makeup of the bench is fair game if you're talking about what happens in the next

four years. the economy, this is the most tricky one for biden. >> finish the job. >> i, i think the thing that is frustrating to democrats and progressives is the amount of economic populism that biden has put into action, whether it is taking large corporations, taking on live nation. being the first president to walk the picket line. i do wonder whether he is going to really be able to talk about any of that tonight because so much of his posture already feels like it's on the back but with trump and the inflection

-- inflation. >> people were dealing with high cost before the pandemic, people were dealing with high cost for decades. healthcare is too expensive. i'm working every single day to bring those costs down, we have some down but we need to do a lot more. last time donald trump was in this office he gave a corporate tax cut to people. he wants to do another one. to be think that's going to be the best move for the middle class in this country? >> that must be so frustrating for a president. >> stop talking about bridges, biden spending too much time praising bridges that are being built instead of connecting voters. i'm sure he's telling him that right now. >> barack obama and the first answer of the debate against mitt romney when he lost the

debate, instead of hitting mitt romney on his tax plan which the moderator set him up to do he started talking about his achievements on race to the top and education. >> that's what he's been spending his time on and that matters. >> i will not make age an issue of this campaign. >> first of all, that was shutdown the age speculation. i do wonder how you think you should broach it and whether you should go on about it first.

i think for biden -- biden is going to be more how he looks, his energy, how he sounds, whether he is punchy, whether he finishes his thoughts. they're going to get up and energized. >> don't leave, i want to hear more about things like that after our break. we have a lot to talk about including your new buksa stick with me, it's out now, the book is called democracy or else. how to save america and bake a brownie in 10 easy steps. more coming up. before that, we will have the

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this is in my view one of

the most important elections in history. >> the race that bernie sanders was talking about there is the congressional district. a westchester county executive and the most expensive house primary in u.s. history. almost $25 million have been spent in this primary. the pro-israel lobby has shelled out more than $14 million in ads criticizing congressman's position over the war in gaza. congressman has spoken out against the actions and not conflict while mr. latimer refuses to talk about benjamin netanyahu. joining me now from the big board is steve korn ackie national correspondent. thank you for being here. what can you tell us about the breaking news we have tonight? >> a lot of returns to george latimer with about a 13 point

advantage over jamaal bowman. we have a big batch in there and it comes down to just a touch under 10 points. about 9 1/2. okay what just happened as i came on the air, we got a bigger chunk of the county portion of this district. the district is split between a small share in the bronx and then the vast majority of the district is north in westchester county the suburbs of new york city so the bronx portion you can now see about three quarters of the expected vote is in. we knew this big quarter base within the district. when he ran in 2022 got several primary challengers is -- the last time around. you got 91% of the bronx portion. is running at about 83 1/2 right now. when you get a big batch and

from the bronx portion of the district is going to boost the numbers districtwide but when you look within, 83.6 is probably not where he wants to be. we have 91% here. yet the primary challengers in 2022 he did not get much more than 50% districtwide in 2022. he wants to be very close to that 91 in the bronx. a lot of the vote now from the bronx county portion of the district. let's flip it north to westchester. probably 90% of the vote is going to come from this part of the district there are far more votes here and there's far less share of the vote, the expected vote is in in westchester county and you can see the trend it's been established here. just over a third of the vote now in with a 30 point advantage over bowman in westchester county. put this in some perspective in the 2022 primary when bowman won and got just over 50% districtwide, what did he get in westchester county in the 22 primary?

he got 52% of the vote. tonight he is running at 35 and we are starting to look at some of the town by town results in westchester. you are seeing some significant drop-offs from where he was in 2022. you can see the dynamic here. before all of the controversies of the last year or so. 2022 was kind of a warning sign. he barely got a majority in westchester county which is the vast majority of his district. he couldn't afford coming into 2024 to get much of those levels. we are seeing again pretty significant slippage. motorboats to come in. it would take a pretty big change here. he would have to really dramatically tighten this there is just no indication here. we have an early vote from every city and town and it's pretty consistent. we can update again and look at

the districtwide totals. there it is. he had just gotten that batch of the bronx and it brought him under 10 we just got another batch. the lead now basically back to 10 and a lot more to come out of westchester then to come out of the bronx. if you are the bowman campaign, these so far not the numbers you were looking for and one other quick note just to tell you there was a big primary folks getting lots of attention on the republican side out in colorado just a minute ago nbc characterized this race and declared that lauren bogert who moved from the third congressional district in colorado where she had a very big scare in 2022 to the fourth congressional district in the eastern side of the state opening the seat here, she has won that republican primary. colorado is a state that is basically all mail and voting. 80% of the vote counted. is an emphatic victory for

lauren bogert. his opponents did not unite behind a single alternative, 44% of the vote amounted to a landslide peer to >> she won the election by 546 votes which might be why she moved to the fourth district. i think national democrat, there is a lot of debate inside the democratic caucus about the position to take on israel and the westchester divide on the issue is significant and there is a lot of question about how democrats calibrate their message. the coal mine given how vocal he has been in his criticism of israel and criticism of the war in gaza.

>> the district did change just a little between the 2022 primary and tonight, they had one of these complicate illegal issues. the change occurred in the bronx portion of the district. that is as much as i can zoom in . >> we actually have a map. the black line represents the current district which has a greater share. the red line represents the district in 2020 which had a greater share of the bronx >> in 2022 the last time he ran that northern part was already in the district so from 2022 to tonight there is one change. the wakefield section of the bronx. it previously was in the district that was taken out and it was replaced with this part of the bronx. is about 40,000 people. it's called co-op city and co-

op city has a majority black population. one of the interesting things is the population is older. there are more senior citizens in this section of the bronx that was put in then was put out. it is a majority black area. he is doing very well tonight but we are seeing a bit of slippage it appears from to 22 you wonder if it's an older demographic. is not a factor here? there's going to be a lot of pursing of the data. america's sweetheart, it's always great to see you, buddy. still to come, what democrats need to do to win in november but also what has to happen after that if we want a functioning democracy. a closed- door hearing held today that could significantly derail the

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it has been nearly an hour since the polls have closed in new york's primary races tonight and already we have a projected winner in the most expensive primary race in american history where

westchester county george latimer has been attempting to unseat progressive squad member. nbc news can now project george as the projected winner. what can you tell us about the numbers and how they may have changed? >> we were just talking a minute ago about the basic divide between the much smaller in terms of population slice of the bronx, that's where bowman is getting about 84% of the vote right now. the vast majority is appearing westchester county, suburbs of new york city. this is where george latimer is, the county executive. we set about a third of the vote was running very well overall in the county and bowman was falling far short of numbers he had reached in this county in the 2022 primary and basically what had happened in the last five minutes since i was on his list. if you recall in westchester we only had about 35 to 40% of the vote and now about half of the vote is in in westchester

county and what we've seen, what you can see here if you are watching closely in the last segment, these numbers haven't changed. is kind of locking in right now. the latimer advantage over bowman. it is spread out geographically here. it is a consistent pattern everywhere. everywhere in this district he is running short, double digit short in many cases of where he fared in the 2022 primary and it is consistent enough there is enough vote in and frankly there is enough vote less you can expect vladimir to add to his margin now. you can look at the district and say bowman is not getting many more votes out of the bronx. he is out of westchester county vladimir and now has been chosen 50% districtwide, they project that george latimer has defeated representative bowman. it will make him the third house member to lose a primary this cycle. >> i am reminded of his polling

deficits going in to the 2020 election where he was running behind engel the longtime congressman by 19 points and then went on to defeat him by 14 points. i think he was kind of hoping for a similar outcome tonight, he was falling behind him about 17 points and some polls and saying this was a turnout election but you look at the amount of money that was spent on this race, the national import that was assigned to it. it is a race unlike any other. >> there is the money coming, the huge story here, the cost of this race. i would say before the money was spent, bowman's problems were clear. if you look on paper, bowman had a pretty easy

time surviving the primary 2022 but if you added up, all of the candidates in the 22 primary, he won this district about 55- 45 which is hardly resounding. last time around it was just 52- 48, bowman. there were some towns here where he got 30%, 25% of the vote. there was a clear vulnerability in westchester county that really predated this cycle. and then you look at all of the controversies and everything going into the cycle and it only amplified that. the vulnerability was already clear for bowman. everything that he has kind of been involved in here in terms of controversy, it's only almost logical that in westchester where he was already in some serious trouble it would just get worse for him . >> in the last block there are a lot of democrats were trying to figure out what is the national message in and around israel where the death toll is

just staggering and appalling but the national party has a lot of reconciliation to do in terms of what it wants his position to be. it's going to put democrats in an uncomfortable position with the specter of the loss. there is going to be implications for people inside congress and outside of congress in terms of how the party talks about it. >> there is the question of the issue itself, there's also the question of just, there is this new breed of member of congress it seems it gravitates toward social media, toward some provocative antics on social media, i think he might've been part of that as well. the question of how that goes over with voters in any congressional district. will issue with pulling the fire alarm and did not alone cause people to look at him and say i'm not so sure this should be our representative in congress. a lot of things were kinda going on here besides obviously the issue you're describing is a huge one. the efforts that went internationally is something we really haven't seen anywhere

else but it is a fascinating story. if you looked inside these numbers a couple of years ago see trouble coming for bowman and frankly he does have a base in the district but again the overwhelming basis such a small part of the district in terms of the population balance. a real problem in westchester. once the problem got worse there is no way that he was going to get enough votes to overcome that. >> we appreciate your time on this evening of breaking news. thanks for hanging with us. >> still to come, the judge eileen cannon. that hearing could have a huge impact on what happens next. more on that, coming up. with an ar that n inhibitor

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handled by email. trump's lawyers wanted key evidence to be thrown out on the basis that the fbi search warrant was too broad and thereby improper. nbc news reports that judge cannon repeatedly questioned that argument, suggesting it

may not pass muster with her. that is not the only request judge cannon heard today. behind closed doors trump's lawyers argued that the special counsel's office should not have access to transcripts of a voice memos made by trump's former lawyer, evan corcoran. remember those memos are key evidence in the prosecution case for obstruction of justice. joining you now is melissa murray, msnbc legal analyst and cohost of the podcast, strict scrutiny. thank you for joining me. i want to get your thoughts on why judge cannon is having these hearings and why she is not using the help available to her to sift through all of this. >> so, hard to say what the mindset is. some are suggesting that these hearings are serving as education for her such as whether or not the special counsel is allowed under the constitution although that seems to have been asked and answered -- to

>> resolved? >> yes, resolved. she has the counsel of very seasoned magistrate judges. these are lower federal judges, article 1 judges, not article 3 judges, but they are there and they handle a lot of the matters that come before the district court. i was a district court clerk. our judge worked closely with the magistrate to who he was assigned, so there is a sort of symbiotic relationship in the courts between the district judge and magistrate judge and they will handle pretrial hearings and types of things that don't need to go to the magistrate judge. in this case the particular magistrate judge associated with judge cannon, with this case, is also the same person who granted the government request for a search warrant. it may be the case that he is a little too close. >> kind of awkward. >> it is a little awkward. >> she could be feeding a lot

of these things to him. there is just a lot of unorthodox decisions or lack of decisions being made. the fact that there has not been a trial date. a lot of general things that should happen in the course of managing a case to trial have not happened here and a lot of that is down to the fact that judge cannon is a relatively new judge. she doesn't have a lot of criminal trial experience and she doesn't have experience in a situation like this one involving a very high profile defendant and information and evidence that will be highly classified and require protocols. >> and now to the closed-door hearing this morning, she is revisiting the topic of whether the key transcripts from trump's lawyer, which are an essential part of the government case against him, whether or not they can be admitted as evidence in this case. those were approved for use in the grand jury hearing by a different judge and she has the opportunity to throw them out

if she agrees with trump's defense and i wonder from a legal point of view how devastating you think that would be for the special counsel. >> it's obviously devastating for the special counsel's case. so much of this depends on establishing state of mind. they are really key pieces of evidence in the special counsel's case. it is unusual, i think, to revisit or second-guess another colleague, even one in another district, though some might argue that what might happen in a grand jury proceeding is very different than what would happen in a trial or on the way to trial, so there is that. but again, i come back to this is a situation where judge cannon is opening herself up to claims that some of this is performative and maybe unnecessary. it could suggest that she lacks experience. it could suggest that she is playing into this defendant's penchant for delaying and delaying and delaying. >> speaking of playing into this defendant's penchant for delaying, the supreme court, melissa, here we are.

three days of decisions coming down this weekend i wonder what your expectation is. will we get or block buster decisions every day? the number of decisions that have yet to be ruled upon or made public and the number of days left in the calendar, i mean we've never seen anything like this. >> well, during the pandemic we did go beyond the typical end of june deadline. ad i think there are now places they are likely to head off to. >> retreats with billionaires. >> i think it is likely that they have plans and want to get out of town, so we may get a deluge of opinions on the last three days and one of them could be this immunity decision. again, i cannot underscore enough for your viewers, this is a decision apparently for the ages according to justice gorsuch and it is taking edges ages to write.

it is a decision i will probably teach in constitutional law. with regard to this defendant and whether or not he is held accountable, it is very unlikely that case will go to trial. it would require a lot to get to trial at this point, given the delays that were the courts own doing, not anything done by the special counsel. >> i'm old enough to remember when a very smart people thought they would not even gh take up the case and here we are turning into july. >> i always said they would. >> you were even smarter than the very smart people i talked to earlier. now they are leading their words, i suppose. melissa murray, great to see you even when it is not the best news. thank you for your time, my friend. strike after the break something super special is coming up and it involves eating pasta with rachel maddow, at least i think it is pasta. that is next. . ingrix is a vace used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions

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before we leave you, we have a quick update for everyone at home. saturday, september 7, you can join me and the msnbc family at msnbc live, democracy 2024. that is our top-notch fan event happening right here in brooklyn, usa, well, across the river here. there will be riveting conversations about the most pressing issues of our time and there will be a sitdown dinner where you can get the inside scoop on this critical moment in our democracy and you can see whether chris hayes