before we leave you, we have a quick update for everyone, on saturday, september 7 you can join me and the msnbc family in democracy 2024, our fan event that is happening in brooklyn, all across the river here. there will be riveting conversations about the most pressing issues of our time and there will be a sit down dinner where you can get the inside scoop on this critical moment on our democracy and you can see of chris hayes prefers chicken or fish. scan the qr code on the screen to get your ticket today. good evening jonathan. >> you will be in brooklyn, i am here in aspen where it is

lovely. >> i think you pulled the longer straw on that one. >> thank you very much. in 47 hours, the earliest presidential debate in modern u.s. history will be underway and it will mark the first time a sitting president and former president have ever debated. of course biden and trump have debated before but this time one of the two candidates on that stage is now a convicted felon. in fact they will debate two weeks before trump is set to be sentenced. today the biden campaign released this advertisement. >> trump loves to attack biden because he is focused on revenge and he has no plan to help the middle class. he will just give more tax cuts

to the wealthy. biden is working every day to make your life more affordable. he makes big corporations pay their share. here is the difference, trump is out for himself and biden is fighting for your family. >> trump is not just focused on revenge he is focused on spreading baseless lies that biden will be under the influence of some kind of magical debate enhancing drug and spreading those lies seem to be the only trump debate strategy. >> my strategy is simple, make america great again. it is that simple. >> trump was in philadelphia this weekend where he told nbc news that he knows who the running mate is and they could be at thursday's debate. >> do they know? >> nobody knows.

>> nbc news reported last week that ohio senator jd vance, north dakota's governor and the florida senator marco rubio were among his top finalists. here is what each of them had to say about the man they believe should run this country again. >> i never liked trump. >> would you do business with trump? >> i do not think so. >> why? >> i think it is important and you are judged by the company you keep. >> there is no way we will a con artist take over the conservative movement. >> well trump continues to use the campaign to spread lies, let's not forget about the rants about sharks or his love of the fictional serial killer, hannibal lector, the biden

campaign is highlighting the real stakes of the election. >> here is the thing, trump says he is proudly responsible for what he has done. proudly responsible that our daughter has fewer rights than my mother-in-law? that doctors can be imprisoned? proudly responsible that access to in vitro fertilization is at risk, contraception axis is at risk. >> that was the vice president and battleground arizona reminding everyone that trump and his republican allies will not stop at abortion rights. more than 1600 miles away, elizabeth warren was in wisconsin to rally on behalf of the biden campaign. >> i am fighting for our sisters, for our cousins, for

the women we went to school with, for our neighbors, i am fighting for the 10-year-old girl that was assaulted. i am fighting for the 46-year- old woman whose only chance to be a mom is ibf. i am fighting for the person who very much wanted this pregnancy and things went wrong, they went sideways. i am fighting for everyone who may be in a position of having to make a medical decision and believes that medical decision should be between the patient and the doctor and not a politician. donald trump is despicable in so many ways.

one way that is particularly despicable is the way he talks out of both sides of his mouth about abortion. he says when he thinks most of america is listening, let's leave it up to states and we will figure it out. but when he is in front of the people who are the extremists, who are driving across the country, to make the healthcare decisions based on their ideology, driving to be the ones who decide who gets to make what decisions in a examining room or a operating room, there he brags. i say trump wants to brag about

this, let's help him. let's make it clear to everybody in this country, the reason we lost roe v wade is trump. joining us now is michael tyler. welcome back to the last word michael. your interpretation of trump's free debate media tour of complaints and excuses. >> thank you for having me. this is what we have come to expect from trump when it comes to debates. he has a history of complaining about debates, skipping out on them, using them as spectacle for his advantage but the problem for trump is when he takes the stage the american people will see the fundamental choice in the election. he will see biden who is

fighting relentlessly for the american people and on the other side they will see trump who is waging a campaign of grievance, who is only in it for himself and is making it clear every single day how extreme he would be in a second term. that is the choice the american people will be confronted with when they tune in thursday night. >> ahead of the debate, the trump campaign is holding a black american business leaders barbershop roundtable. he says he is making inroads with black voters and polls show trump ahead in georgia but i recall when i troubled with you and the president down to atlanta just after the state of the union address, we went to a black owned business, i am wondering, how does the biden campaign see georgia? >> we see georgia as incredibly competitive. the president took the state in

2020 and we expect to do so again. it will be close but we know we have the right candidate and team in place to get the votes again. if you want to talk about black voters and black is mrs., i am not sure why trump wants to talk about black businesses, we know by the end of his term black businesses were shuttered because of how he fumbled the pandemic. black voters were disproportionately left dead and businesses were disproportionately left shuttered. so we are happy to wage this campaign on that front. if you put that up against the presidents historical record of accomplishment. black wealth growing by 60% since before the pandemic. historic investments in hbcus,

at the tune of 16 billion. it is a choice that is easy for black americans to make in that election. we are confident if we continue to make that contrast in values, we will take the election in georgia and across the country. >> let's look at another key state, in a recent interview, the chair of the biden campaign said what is happening in north carolina, the extreme loss moving through the state legislature, the restrictive abortion law there that is worse than most other places in the country, a extreme candidate running for governor in mark robinson, if you put those pieces together we see that the state is in play. so north carolina will begin to mail absentee ballots on september 6 so this may be the only debate north carolina sees. what will it take to flip north carolina? >> north carolina it's absolutely in play. if you want to look at any

indicator look at where the president is going after he leaves atlanta. directly to north carolina. we know that given everything you just described, the extremism on display, obviously the extreme candidate they have in the state, in many ways it is a microcosm of what we are looking at across the country. we know if we relentlessly engage in the state we can come out on top, it is true in georgia and north carolina. we know we have the resources, the candidate, the message, and the values to be victorious across the country and that is the campaign we are building. 300 field offices across the country, over 1000 staff on the ground. it is true in north carolina and george and it is a contrast to the lack of staff trump has.

we have two candidates widely well-known. the operations we have in place matter much more and there is only one campaign doing the work to reach the voters. every dollar people chip in when they go to the website is fueling the grassroots army we are building in the battlegrounds. we are foot on the gas coming off the debate in atlanta. >> you mentioned earlier, the blue wall state. i want you to listen to what a pennsylvania voter told nbc news today. >> i am looking to see that biden does essentially what he has already done and say this is my plan to improve. >> what will president biden say a bout his plan to build upon his record in the next

four years? >> i think you will hear a lot of it on thursday, he will talk about the historic record of accomplishments, everything from 15 million jobs created since he took office. the work he has done to lower costs for american people. capping the costs of insulin for seniors for example. we will talk about the work we will accomplish in the second term, lowering the cost for americans. expanding the insulin cap to all americans. continuing to add more medications to medicare negotiations. continuing to work we will do to make sure we live in a country with a fair tax code so a billionaire never pays less in taxes than a schoolteacher. and making sure we understand if trump is selected none of that will happen. we will have a dork dangerous

and chaotic vision for the country. he will talk about the fact that the extreme state abortion bans are playing out brilliantly. he is comfortable with more bands playing out. he will talk about more corporate handouts and giveaways and he will wage a campaign of revenge and retribution from the debate stage, continuing to attack them accuracy and pardoning the insurrectionist. that is the fundamental contrast people will see on the debate stage. >> trump often uses the phrase is biden migrant crime when talking about immigration. he will likely use it on thursday but the question is, how will the president respond if he does? >> there is no tragedy that trump will not try to exploit for his own personal gain. obviously every last one of these is a tragedy. we will not let trump misconstrued the facts, the fact of the matter is crime went up

under trump's presidency and crime is down under biden's. trump does not care about crying or border security. it is evident by the fact that he was the one that blew up the border security deal when we had a bipartisan deal in the senate. that is true of border security and every challenge the american people face so that again is a fundamental contrast the american people will see on the stage. >> one more question, trump will try to exploit democratic divisions over the war in gaza, how will biden put the focus back on what trumps policies would mean for palestinians? >> i think trump makes it clear that he would not make life better for palestinians or americans or anybody for that matter. biden will make sure people understand they elected him because he does not view issues of global security through the

lens of politics, that is what he has been doing in the middle east and that is why the american people elected him in the first place. he is actually doing his job, he does not view the issues as how it is best for him. that is what trump does. >> this is the last question. what will success look like thursday night? >> i think success is the american people having a clear understanding of the choice in the election because that is what they will see when the candidates take the stage. they will walk away from the debate seeing a president in joe biden who is fighting relentlessly for the american people and across from him they will see trump who is increasingly unhinged and who is running a campaign as a convicted felon. convicted because he is able to do or say anything to hold onto power and is now promising

revenge and retribution and that is what people will walk away from after they watch the debate thursday. >> michael tyler, communications director for the budding campaign. thank you for coming to the last word as always. coming up, the choice voters have in this year's election, a sitting president who has worked tirelessly to and gun violence or a convicted felon that has probably done nothing. a big victory against alex jones today who was mainstreamed by donald trump. that is next. at is next. yay - woo hoo! ensure, with 27 vitamins and minerals, nutrients for immune health. and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. (♪♪) deep down, i knew something was wrong. since my fatigue and light-headedness would come and go, i figured it wasn't a big deal. then i saw my doctor and found out i have afib,

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for 25 years, the now bankrupt businessman alex jones has used his notorious website info wars to make millions by spreading conspiracy theories. including lies that obama and hillary clinton were the devil and smelled like sulfur and conspiracy theories like pizza gate and that the u.s. government had a hand in 911 and he might have stayed in a obscure corner of the internet if not for this. >> i am excited, he joins us from trump tower in new york city. the leading 2016 republican

presidential contender. trump joins us and i have some the questions but first thank you for joining us. >> thank you alex, great to be with you. >> trump did that while alex was lying about sandy hook but now because of the sandy hook families his platform will be shut down. his personal assets have been liquidated and now a u.s. bankruptcy court trustee says he intends to wind down operations of the parent company and liquidate the inventory. it is being liquidated because alex jones owes the families of the victims from the school shooting one and a half billion because of the lies he told, lies that the murder of 20 first-graders and six educators by a ar 15 never happened. lies that led to the families of the victims being harassed and threatened. this is some justice for the families who wanted to see the media platform that spread this

poison shuddered. there was another victory in the fight against gun violence today. u.s. surgeon general doctor murphy confirmed firearm violence is a public health crisis in america. >> i sat with parents who lost a child to violence, listened to their stories and felt their pain as they described the holes in their hearts. as a father i know a parents worst nightmare is to lose a child and feel like you cannot protect your child from harm. firearm violence is a public health crisis. our failure to address it is a moral crisis. to protect the health and well- being of americans especially our children we must now act with a clarity, courage and urgency that this moment demands. >> guns are the leading cause of death for children and adolescents in the u.s. ages 1- 19, more than car accidents and

drug overdoses combined. ahead of the november election this is the choice, biden and a administration working to end gun violence or former president trump who probably said he did nothing to restrict guns. earlier this month at a rally to end gun violence, the vice president made this clear. >> whereas biden and i stood up to the nra and gun lobby, trump bowed down. after the horrors of el paso and dayton, the former president said he would take action and then he folded. he failed to stand up to the gun lobby. >> joining us now democratic congressman maxwell frost of florida, a member of the house oversight committee and a national advisory board member for the biden campaign.

welcome to the last word, the surgeon general calls the gun epidemic a moral crisis and polling shows nearly 6-10 u.s. adults say they worry sometimes, every day or almost every day about a loved one being a victim of firearm violence. that is a solid majority and the contrast could not be clearer between standing up and bowing down to the nra. >> of course, 60% of americans say they worry about themselves or a family member dying from firearms, it is even more, 90% want universal back rent checks and action. a larger percent want something done. on one hand you have died and who signed a law bipartisan safe communities act.

the white house put a progress report out on how this law has saved lives. gun violence and homicide to around the country has gone down and there is more work to do. on the other hand you have trump who when asked about mass shootings said get over it. that is his response to the families of parkland, texas or the families to the children hunt down every day. that is unacceptable. >> the surgeon general's advisories notes black americans endure the highest rates and suicide rates are highest among veterans, or native american people. as a board member for the biden campaign, how are they prioritizing these groups when it comes to reducing firearm violence? >> the campaign is prioritizing in the way we communicate with

voters. on the other side it is the action the president has taken. the safer communities act has a record amount of money going toward community violence intervention, giving money to community groups that work on identifying who is more likely to shoot someone and who is more likely to be shot and funding these programs helps us and the violence before it happens. a lot of people in congress want to talk about how to react to gun violence and i want to have a conversation on how we make sure people do not die in the first place. today the surgeon general of the u.s. declared gun violence as a public health crisis emergency. it opens up a lot for us in terms of the politics of this on the hill and hopefully allows us to get more done. similar announcements were put out by the surgeon general before action was taken on hiv

aids were smoking. so i think this is a turning point in the gun violence prevention movement and of course thanks to the biden administration. >> doctor jonathan wrote a time magazine op-ed with a headline this is guns are not just a public health problem, gun laws by themselves will have little effect in changing the contours of the american gun debate if they do not go hand-in-hand with material investments that take seriously people's safety concerns and reward community cohesion over armed tribalism. gun laws have the greatest effect if joint with investments in environments, fixing streetlights, jobs programs and rebuilding civic infrastructure, public safety and community resiliency can reduce gun crime at rates that

supersede those reduced by gun laws alone. it is a twofold strategy but how do we get the investment from elected officials? >> i am glad you brought that up, i tell people we will finish gun violence in three different ways. first gun regulation to make sure guns do not get in the wrong hands, ensuring we invest in community violence intervention so community groups have the resources to break the cycle of violence and creating a country where people do not field the need to use a gun to solve problems in the first place. if you want to be the gun violence person you also have to be the healthcare person, the jobs person, the infrastructure person, these are all big bills that biden has signed into law over the next few years. that is what we have to look at, it is not just one gun

legislation, it is the totality on how we create a environment and society where people do not turn to violence to feed their families. that is why the democratic agenda is one that will make sure guns do not get in the wrong hands but will also make sure you have a good paying union job, you have what you need in terms of infrastructure to make sure you live the life you want to live. it gives me hope for the future of this country. young voters will tell you several things they care about because they see how all of the issues are connected. that is how we will and gun violence. >> the doctor also believes the gun debate is rooted deeply in political identity and many in the country see guns as a form of protection. how do we change this divide to reduce gun violence? >> it was what i was just saying, people need to feel

safe. i have had difficult conversations especially during the blm uprising. when i was on the streets there were several organizers i was working with who told me i am hitting a gun in a few days because we were threatened by white supremacists or i was boxed online and the fact of the matter is there are real safety concerns for many people. people across the country that have a sphere and want to arm themselves. to be clear this agenda is not trying to disarm every american. what we are fighting for is responsible commonsense policy coupled with preventative measures so we do not get to a point where a gun is fired in the first place but making sure that we expand what public safety means is important. when we think about public safety the only thing we think

about is law enforcement but we need to make sure the community is also centered in the conversation, community violence intervention programs are evidenced based and if you look at the report from the surgeon general he uses data and facts to show if we put more money into these community- based programs can help and gun violence and help our communities feel safer because that is a real concern. >> thank you as always for coming to the last word. coming up, convicted felon trumps gag order has been partially lifted by the judge ahead of trumps sentencing just in time for the debate. what happened today inside the courtroom of trump appointed judge who keeps delaying the start of the criminal trial for alleged crimes after he left office? that is next. at is next. ep.

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the judge in trumps hush money case partially lifted the gag order against trump ahead of the debate on thursday. so trump is now free to complain about the witnesses that testified against him and the jury that found him guilty of 34 felony counts of falsifying business records to hide hush money payments in a attempt to influence the election but he is still gagged

from attacking the prosecution team, courtroom staff and families until his sentencing on july 11. trumps federal criminal trial in dc is on hold while we wait for a decision from the supreme court on weather trump has immunity from prosecution for trying to overturn the 2020 election. today in florida the federal judge who trump appointed, canon, finished her third day of hearings without rulings further delaying trumps criminal trial on his illegal retention of classified documents. jack smith sat in the courtroom as the judge considered a motion to suppress evidence seized by the fbi claiming the search warrant was invalid but the judge seemed inclined to reject the argument telling the attorney the search warrant was detailed enough to survive the challenge, it seems like it is based on the case law submitted

quote. he was in the courtroom today and a fellow at just security. also a former u.s. attorney and former chief of the appellate decision in the 11th circuit. >> thank you both very much. adam, break down what happened in court today. >> the quote you just read is the key quote, often during the oral arguments in these pretrial hearings, it is hard to tell where the judge is leaning. a quote like that pretty much says it all. she had said moments before that, that trumps attorney brought a particularity challenge, meaning he challenged the level of detail in the warrant and she said it seems like it does have enough detail

based on the case law submitted. we do not want to undercut this moment. for two years now trump has complained about the fairness of the raid on his property in florida. they brought their best case law today and prosecutors brought tears and it seems based on the blockbuster remark you read and the general arguments this morning that the prosecution will have succeeded to defeat this challenge to suppress evidence. that was one half of the hearing, there was a second- half that was sealed from the press to discuss attorney- client privilege issues which goes to notes from trumps former attorney that were obtained by prosecutors by use of the crime fraud exception.

they had obtained access to these notes from the dc grand jury. trump is challenging that. what happened during that hearing? the trumps attorneys make headway? we do not know until the judge issues a public ruling. >> abc news reports trump expressed concern that returning classified documents after a may 22 subpoena could result in criminal charges, he raised the question as to, if we give them additional documents now, would the doj come back and say why did you withhold them and try to use that as a basis for criminal liability or make him look bad in the press according to the notes about what trump asked the attorneys. what do you make of this? >> jonathan this is about the

first hearing adam was talking about. those sealed hearing about whether or not judge can and will let the prosecution use trumps lawyers notes at trial. the argument that is made is normally this is protected information protected by attorney-client privilege but here there is a crime fraud exception, trump was trying to enlist his attorney to join him in a criminal conspiracy to obstruct the investigation so we are entitled to this evidence. the abc reporting is dynamite evidence. it enhances a strong portfolio of evidence in the government hands. the original ruling that lets them use this was made by a different judge in dc, so what

the judge is doing in effect is seeing whether or not she agrees and given the volume of evidence here, it would be very surprising if she disagreed. >> talk to us about what it was like being in the room with jack smith and judge cannon. any notable interactions? >> there were no interactions with most people and jack smith, he is very stoic. he is seated behind the prosecution so most of us are seated in the gallery, which is two rows of seating in a small courtroom in fort pierce. we are basically seeing the back of his head but he does not see much and judge cannon can be soft spoken, she can be very polite until she is frustrated

and then she puts everything on her sleeve and she got frustrated at the prosecution multiple times both yesterday and the moment she told david she did not appreciate his tone and there was a moment at the end of the hearing today where there was another tense moment where she was frustrated at trumps lawyers saying the defense was trying to hijack the hearing with matters that were not part of the case. the judge shut it down and said she was trying to wrap up the hearing. so you know when you have run afoul of the judge and she has shown more flashes of anger at the prosecution then the defense. >> adam is frozen's so we will

take that as a operant trinity -- >> he is back and gone again. thank you for coming back to the last word. sorry about the technical difficulties. our next guest says wall street wants nothing to do with another trump term, that is next. next. so i started my own studio. getting a brick and mortar in new york is not easy. chase ink has supported us from studio one to studio three. when you start small, you need some big help. and chase ink was that for me. earn up to 5% cash back on business essentials with the chase ink business cash card from chase for business. make more of what's yours.

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>> donald trump's entire identity is tied up in perpetuating the myth that he is the world's greatest businessmen, but it is just that, a myth. after relying on money from his dad and years of alleged tax fraud, trump has left a trail behind him littered with litigation and bankruptcy. what about when he was president? take this headline from propublica just before he left office. donald trump international debt so big even before the pandemic that will way down the economy for years. our next guest, chairman and president of the yale chief executive leadership institute, says wall street has taken note, and wants nothing to do with another truck term. >> we look back into the data and we've been looking at this for the last four months we've been pointing out there are no fortune 500 ceos who are supporting former president trump and that is a historic break going back to william

howard taft and through calvin coolidge and ronald reagan and the bushes and everything, it has been anywhere from 40 to 60% public and financial support. it is zero now. it was zero in 2016. >> today, axe is piled on with more bad news for trump, reporting 16 nobel prize- winning economist are warning former president trump's plans would reignite inflation and cause lasting harm to the global economy if he wins in november. while each of us has different views on the particulars of various economic policies, we all agreed that joe biden's economic agenda is vastly superior to donald trump. the 16 economists wrote in a letter first obtained by axe's. joining us now is jeffrey sonnenfeld, senior associate dean at yale university school of management and cnbc contributor.

in a new york times op-ed, you wrote, and important, mr. trump and his team are doubling down on some of his most antibusiness instincts. these compositions have more in common with karl marx than adam smith. so, what are the truck policies ceos are afraid of? >> the truck policies that they don't like, some of them are style, some of them are substance. in short, most ceos are not xenophobic. they appreciate immigration. they know the history of the country. they know that half the fortune 500 companies are either created by immigrants were first-generation descendents that have come to this country, maybe a quarter of tech startups are immigrants, and they celebrate that, so they are not xenophobic. they are also on protectionist. they believe in selective use of some terrorists, so there is unfair competition but trump wants around the world all tariffs all the time that would

be highly inflationary. they hate that. they are also not isolationist. they look at a dangerous predator, a country like putin's russia, and the destruction of the cruelty and the human rights violations in the destabilization, they don't support that, so those are some things, but they also believe in the rule of law instead of the law of rulers and that frightens them perhaps more than anything. there are particular economic policies we could talk about what it is that overall philosophy that they don't stand behind and that shocking because they are 65, 70% republican. >> yes. we have less than a minute left but what is the one economic question you would like president biden and donald trump to be asked on the debate on thursday? >> to acknowledge that in fact this is the first time in history we have seen, despite what all the economists have said, have such low unemployment

. we've not seen that since bonanza was the number one show on tv at 3.8%, and to have such falling inflation, it has fallen from 7% to 2.5%. that is remarkable. eggs are high because of avian flu that has gone through and killed chickens. inflation is coming down and we have incredible wealth. this is a success story. instead of apologizing for success, the biden cabinet people should be celebrating the success. this is great for pensioners, for the average working person and in 40 years we haven't seen the average wage finally outpace inflation for the average worker. >> on that note, we are going to leave it there. thank you for coming to the last word, and we will be right back. ng downy unstopabl to my wash. now e smelli h all .

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one programming note before we go, we are two days away from the first presidential debate between president biden and donald trump. on thursday, rachel maddow and team lead to special coverage of the debate hosted by cnn. watch thursday beginning at 7:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. that is tonight's last word. the 11th hour with stephanie ruhle starts now.