they want to target this particular group. these are people from uzbekistan and georgia and moldova and you could see there and this is the reason why ice wants to talk to them. so it is a isis linked group but they have no evidence of any plans to carry out any kind of terror attack here in the united states. >> you could amass for us, 150 arrested and 50 missing. what about the others. >> they are living in u.s. states and they may soon be arrested as part of an i.c.e. operation. but for those 50, those are particular concerned because they're whereabouts are unknown. so there are more of a concern to dfs. >> that is a big number. thank you very much. and that is going to do it for me. "deadline: white house" tarts right now. hi there, everyone, it is 4:00 in the east. another day, another issue surrounding the united states supreme court's transparency and

confidence. the court, which still has decisions on a dozen argued cases yet to be announced this term. today inadvertently posted online a document related to an abortion case which was obtained by bloomberg law. a supreme court spokesperson confirmed that the document was, quote, inadvertently and briefly up loaded but noted that the ruling has not been release and would be in due course. nbc news has not independently verified the document. it is not known if it is a draft decision, the actual decision, or neither of those things. the document has since been removed from the website. well if the document did signal was that court appears set to allow emergency room doctors in the state of idaho to perform life-saving abortions which they are unable to do under that state's defensive life act. that passed in august of 2022. the law is one of the most extreme abortion bans in the country. it prohibits nearly all

abortions and does not allow for exceptions for the life of the mother at risk. while this potential ruling by the supreme court sounds and feels like good news, like a win for abortion rights advocates, in actuality, it amounts to a punt by the highest court. a ruling from the lower court which has paused idaho's ban on abortion would be reinstated and that court did not rule on any of the merits of this case. justice brown jackson makes all of these points in writing this, quote, today's decision is not a victory for pregnant patients in idaho. it is delay. while this court doddles and the country waits, people experiencing medical conditions remain in a precarious position as they're doctors are left in the dark about what the law requires. this is one day ahead of the first 2024 presidential debate as president joe biden has made the protection of women's re

productive freedom a centerpiece of his campaign. >> decades of progress shattered because of the last guy got four years in the white house. you know what will happen if he gets another four. maga republicans, roe is just the beginning. they're going to try to ban the right nationwide and coming for ivf. send me back to the white house and i'll fight like hell to restore roe v. wade. >> and in addition to the abortion rights here in america, the temporary posting of the document on the supreme court website raises questions about why a second abortion-related case after dobbs reached the public inadvertently, before the court officially released it. as well as what other decisions from the court that are done and ready are just sitting there. it is where we start the hour with our most favorite reporters and friends. dalia westbrook is here and plus

mini timer is here and legal analyst and nyu law professor melissa murray is back and former obama policy director and dr. kavita patel here. it is an honor to you have here with us. dalia, sift through what this is and what we think happened? >> i think that this is, unlike the dobbs leak was a technical screwup that happened. somebody uploaded an opinion that was clearly not ready by its appearance to be sort of released today. and somebody uploaded it on to the court website. and the good people at bloomberg law said, hey, we see it. because all of us are busy going refresh, refresh, to see what else is coming. and so we've got a draft opinion. but i think this is more in the bucket of if the supreme court

behaves like an ordinary transparent institution em bears things like this wouldn't happening and if they happen they get corrected quickly. then in the bucket of the catastrophic dobbs leek. it is still very embarrassing. >> yeah. i mean, i guess the problem with an institution whose public approval is plunging farther and faster than any other institution in civic life is the inability to own a mistake. i mean why not admit, and if it is ready, why not release it today, dalia? >> i mean, it is hard not to think that if it is ready it should be released today. we're told there is no partisan veilance to when cases come down. we're told and scolded that it is all just, you know, they come down when they're ready. so this certainly suggests either that someone is still drafting something, and in this case it wasn't ready, or that,

you know, court is a little bit more political in its release of cases than any of us thought. but we're not going to know. and again, the fact that the court just sort of turned out the lights at 11:00 and said, we'll figure it out tomorrow really, i think, speaks to this imperial view of itself as beyond reproach. i'm sure we're minutes away from hearing that it is the press's fault again. >> predictable. but the depressing and certainly not helpful to the court. let's deal with the document that was posted. today's document has this from samuel alito and a dissent, obviously. the right to refuse medical treatment without consent does not entail the right to demand treatment that is prohibited by law. cancer patients have the right to refuse treatment that their doctors recommend but they do not have a right to obtain whatever treatment they want. such as the administration of a drug that cannot legally be use in the country. granting terminal patients the

right to try experimental drugs. likewise here, a woman's right to withhold consent to treatment related to her pregnancy does not mean she could demand an abortion. doctor patel, there is still this delusion that women are out there demanding abortions like they demand, you know, spanx or undergarments, or it is a view obviously seemingly shared in the household. it is wrapped in the disinformation that has been peddled by the extreme wing of the pro-life movement for decades. it is incredibly out of step with american public opinion and it is incredibly out of step with anything that happens in a doctor's office. between a patient and a doctor. tell me what you think of what we're seeing in this document. we, again, don't know if this is a final opinion. >> it might be easier to tell people what is happening on the ground. so a pregnant patient mime come

to the emergency room for a variety of the reasons, high blood or bleeding and it happens 54 times at saint luke's boise, idaho, a patient's water breaks before the fetus could live outside of the womb around or before 22 weeks of gestation. after the water breaks, there is a fetal heartbeat but you could have infection quickly spread. we've talked about sepsis, which is life-threatening. without a ban in place, what would happen is the doctor would recommend termination of the pregnancy to avoid sepsis and the death or potential death of the mother. and the fetus. with this ban, what is happening today, is that specialists are having to make a judgment call and talking to the administration and in many cases having to send a patient out of state, keep in mind the nearest place is portland or seattle, and that is about eight hours away, that could offer medical care. we're not talking about offering abortions on demand. we're talking about medical

care. so those comments by justice alito and it just makes my blood boil because we're not talking about on demand health care. making that analg to cancer is disrespectful and i think that is why you saw the outrage in justice's statement which is only the tip of the iceberg of what is happening on the ground. >> let me read more from again this document. in this document, this is from justice cat angie brown jackson, who wrote a concurring and dissenting opinion. we could thought wind back the clock to how the court was before ittin jeked itself into this matter. our intervention has already distorted this litigation process. we permitted idaho's law to go into effect by staying the district court's injunction in the first place. then allowed this matter to sit on our merit doct for five months. while we considered the questions presented. it is too little, too late for

the court to take a milligan and tell the lower courts to carry on as if none of this has happened. as the old adage goes, court has made this bed so now it must lie in it. wow! >> i could not agree with her more. look, the court had a chance to do the right thing here. the court had a chance to resolve this. this case was all about preemption, the biden administration trying to figure out how do we save women's lives in states with abortion bans, how do we provide and make sure they have the critical care, life-saving care they need there the cases that dr. patel just outlined. the court could have done something about it. and instead it is completely unconscionable that they've punted this. it is in some ways probably a better outcome that what many of us expected from this court but it is a short-term win. ultimately what we need to see happen is abortion bans lifted.

the biden administration is doing everything they can in the margins to protect women's lives. but it is just simply not enough. this court is not to be trusted. we have to win a federal trifecta to re-establish a federal right to abortion, it is the only solution. it is dangerous to have to continue to go to court and this court has not shown the majority of this courtney willingness to do the right thing. this is so similar to the medication abortion situation as well. where they just dismissed the case on standing but judge kavanaugh laid out how to challenge medication abortion the next time. they're just not willing to make the hard decisions after the devastation that they created in overturning roe. >> melissa, it is -- well two things. mike pence's fly has joined me down in the studio. but much more importantly, there is a -- what may end up being the only presidential debate

tomorrow night, the public is more acutely aware, the general public, of the role of the supreme court in impacting the life of every american woman than it ever has been. and you have this decision, this document posted, i wouldn't call it a decision because we don't know for sure that it is that. what do you make about the competence ever a roll out of a vital decision around an issue that has the attention and the interest and the lives of women and their unborn children on the line. >> so, nicolle, i agree with dalia, this may very well have just been a mistake, like an inadvertent up loading. but i want to step back and offer a hot take that perhaps this court really does recognize what it unleashed in 2022 with dobbs versus jackson women's health organization which overruled roe v. wade. after that decision was leased in june of 2022, we saw millions of american women going to the

polls in the midterm elections with the death of roe on their list. and we saw over and over and over again that abortion could be a salient issue in politics. i don't think that was lost on the court. in her concurrence just jackson noted, this court decided to leap frog over the 9th circuit, the lower intermediate appellate court and instead inserted itself. that means there are at least four people on this court, hot to trot, to take the question of whether a emergency abortions could be provided over the objections of the state. and now it seems as we head into the election season, november is looming, maybe the court has had a change of heart. we've seen it before. in dobbs, the chief justice had tried valiantly to broker a compromise that would uphold the mississippi law and while stopping short of overruling roe because he understand the political fallout for overruling that decision.

now it seems with the election looming and abortion being a salient issue, maybe this court in both the mifepristone case and this case realized that maybe a decision right now isn't the best thing. it puts the court right in the cross-hairs of politics where it doesn't want to be at a time where everyone is talking about the problems with this court and its justices. >> melissa, let me press further on this. you've opened the door and i'm going to barrel through it. if the court is play paying attention to politics and they're glued to television programs like this one and politics, the problem isn't with progressives, it is with republicans living in places like kansas and north carolina. and what you're suggesting is, you know, at best, extreme politicization of the schedule and the decision making of the course, at the worst political corruption. say more. >> so, again, speculation on my part, but the fact that the

court did this case, said that cert was granted, that happens so infrequently at this court. for court to say you know what, we decided that some of the issues were not well formulated, like in the fullness of time, we've seen these decisions were not well formulated and we want to send it back to the lower court. that was -- nothing has changed and justice jackson said as much in her concurrence and dissent. nothing has changed. it continues to exist and women continue to be airlifted out of idaho. nothing has changed. justice barrett suggested that during oral argument both litigants changed their positions and narrowed their position substantially and that wasn't an issue in terms of the facts of the case. they were clarifying their position at the lower court and it could have happened at the supreme court. why don't they want to issue this decision now and bring

speculation on my part, but again when you put this in conversation with the mifepristone decision, where that case should never have gotten to the court in the first place, they decided to 2kis miss it on tanding grounds. so they get the opportunity just before this election to appear moderate on the question of abortion, to not send women throughout the country to the polls with abortion on their minds. and in a year, two years, they get to come right back to this question as justice jackson noted, there is a fifth circuit case that is already teed up on the very same question, there is an opportunity to come back here. >> well, i mean, this is a lot more than rank speculation from someone as brilliant as melissa and all of you. let me go back with that framing in mind to justice brown jackson's concurrence/dissent. as the adage goes, court has

made it's bed and it must now lie in it. your thoughts about the conversation that ensues in the next five months in the context of a campaign? >> so, it is important to note that again, the biden hhs that put out this guidance, a trump hhs will rescind it. so if the court is kicking the can down the road, the way professor murray outlined and i agree with her assessment, they're potentially leaving room for a trump presidency, a trump administration to finish the job of eliminating imtala. the same thing with medication abortion. a trump appointed fda, a trump fda could rescind authorization for medication abortion which was the whole point of the case. so when the supreme court circumvents making decisions here and does this stuff on technicality, they're opening the door for their -- for many

of their cronies at the heritage foundation and project 25 to do what they've said and what they could do, which is undermine abortion care even further than they have with overturning roe so if i'm joe biden, tomorrow night, and in the debate, i'm talking about how my administration took these steps to protect medication abortion, took the steps to protect emergency care for women in states and how i want to put an end to this devastation and this essentially segregated society we're in now, if i'm in a blue state, i have abortion access and freedom and if i'm in a red state, i do not. he's made it the front centerpiece of his campaign. he's having these women on the road telling their stories about their own lack of emergency care. and he's made this really personal for so many americans and that should be the focus for next few months on this campaign. >> yeah, i mean, i hate to come back to all of you on this idea that the court may be trying to market itself as more moderate

than it really is. putting the toothpaste back in the tube effort. that is extraordinary. we have to sneak in a break before we have that conversation. no one is going anywhere. still to come, trump allies testing a new strategy to try and block the election results of the next presidential election. it is happening in counties there five battleground states. fearing are growing that it is a test run for trying to overturn another biden victory in the fall. and later in the broadcast, on the eve of the first and possibly only presidential debate of the 2024 general election, an unlikely endorsement for president joe biden, conservative former congressman adam kinzinger said there is too much at stake to be sitting on the side lines in november. could adam kinzinger be just the start of a new wave of republican endorsements. all of those stories and more when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere, today. don't y ? i'm not gonna slide tackle. but now with tide oxi white,

we can clean our white clothes without using bleach. it even works on colors. i slide tackled. i see that. tide oxi white. hi, i'm greg. i live in bloomington, illinois. i'm not an actor. i'm just a regular person. some people say, "why should i take prevagen? i don't have a problem with my memory." memory loss is, is not something that occurs overnight. i started noticing subtle lapses in memory. i want people to know that prevagen has worked for me. it's helped my memory. it's helped my cognitive qualities.

give it a try. i want it to help you just like it has helped me. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. new projects means new project managers. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. when you sponsor a job, you immediately get your shortlist of quality candidates, whose resumes on indeed match your job criteria. visit indeed.com/hire and get started today. when we're young, we're told anything is possible... whose resumes on indeed ...but only a few of us go out and prove it. witness the greatness of anna hall on a connection worthy of gold: xfinity mobile. only xfinity gives you the most powerful mobile wifi network, with speeds up to a gig in millions of locations. and right now, xfinity internet customers can buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. get the fastest connection to paris with xfinity.

ok y'all we got ten orders coming in.. big orders! starting a business is never easy, but starting it eight months pregnant.. that's a different story. i couldn't slow down. we were starting a business from the ground up. people were showing up left and right. and so did our business needs. the chase ink card made it easy. when you go for something big like this, your kids see that. and they believe they can do the same. earn unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase with the chase ink business unlimited card from chase for business. make more of what's yours.

you said this court is not normal. what do you mean? >> well what i meant is it is more to unravel basic rights and bis basic decisions than any court in recent history. and that is what i meant by not normal. it is gone out of its way to -- i mean for example, take a look at overruling roe v. wade, take a look at the decisions today. take a look at how it's ruled on a number of issues that are -- had been precedent for 50, 60 years sometimes. and that is what i meant by it. not normal. >> we're back with dalia and

mini and dr. patel. dalia, again, i don't have any visibility into the biden campaign or candidacy other than what is public. but if you look at how under-appreciated dobbs was ahead of the last time americans went to the polls and that was a midterm, right. that was 2022. and how off the polls were from what ended up happening. this is not an issue that has to be explained to people. this court, the way it conducts itself on ethics or the lack thereof and the way it appears incompetent and it may have been technical or a campaign or a network or a show doesn't get the benefit of the doubt. we have to believe in a lot of coincidences that that happened twice with abortion cases. but okay. but sms this is something that if you have eye uterus, you know

what it means. i think there is a hidden male vote that understands the consequence of women's health care being a crime. just talk about what president biden said there and if he makes this a pillar of the 2024 general election that this court is not normal, what that means for court? >> i mean, this is such interesting polling, right, suggesting that bridge swaths of the country think that biden is responsible for the fall of roe. and that is kind of chilling. because of course every time donald trump can get in front of a microphone, if he's not talking about hannibal lector, he's talking about the way that his justices ended roe v. wade. and yet i think it points to still a kind of failure to connect the election of a president with supreme court justices and then the results that come out in the doctrine. and i think one of the things that we're going to see now and we're starting to see it i think this summer, is the biden

administration trying to kind of connect those two thoughts up and say, not just donald trump single-handedly is responsible for the over turn of roe and all of the misery that we've been seeing, amanda and kate cox and let's be clear, this opinion today, and assuming it is the opinion, it only attached to idaho. there is still the fifth sick -- the fifth circuit and people can't get abortion care unless their life is in danger. and that doesn't affect nobody. lots and lots of people are still, as mini said, unable to access care. i think this argument that if you do not elect joe biden, you are going to see one maybe two more sam alitos, more clarence thomass appointed to the court. it is an argument that biden really needs to make in the most full some way and it is really i

think something that as melissa said, is so deeply s salient to voters. -- but i think that the kind of connective tissue hasn't always been there and that is the challenge not just in the debate tomorrow, but going into the summer and the election season. >> it is such a good point. dr. patel, we constantly ask why the generals are. i'll show you what trump has to say about this and where your colleagues are. let me show you this first. >> i was proudly the person responsible for the ending of something that all legal scholars both sides wanted and in fact demanded be ended. roe v. wade. >> i did something nobody thought was possible. i got rid of roe v. wade. and by doing that -- by doing that, it puts pro-lifers in a strong negotiating position.

for 54 years they're trying to get roe v. wade terminated and i did it and i'm proud to have done it. nobody else was going to get that done but me but we did and did something that was a miracle. >> it is not a miracle. it is so wildly unpopular. that republicans in kansas have rejected the ban. it is a political liability. it is a liability for women's health. and i wonder what you think and what conversations you're aware of are happening on the medical side of the conversation, people who see this and live this, to make sure that what dalia explains doesn't happen, that the guy bragging about ending roe v. wade is for once telling the truth, he is the one that ended roe v. wade. >> yeah, it is ironic that you do have them just kind of telling the truth so plainly. but people not realizing or miss attributing that so president biden. coy tell you what is happening

right now, we're dismantling the health care system and we're creating deserts for maternal care, but deserts for care. because when you have what we're seeing statistically, that means we're also not training emergency room doctors, ob/gyns, to understand and recognize what i just laid out, that even i had to deal with. i had to go to the e.r. and wonder, is my pregnancy at threat, do have i something happening and i depended on all of the people around me having that expertise. so we're dismantling the health care syste and this is so ironic after we worked on the affordable care act, where we still have republicans talking about getting rid of obamacare and taking pride in exactly what we're -- it is nothing short of taking apart of the health care system. anybody who doesn't believe that needs to not go to states like idaho, go to my why in the country when you watch the pattern that is changed among

doctors and nurses and allied health practitioners. >> you know, melissa, there is a thing with being female in america that is so dystopian. it doesn't seem real that a guy who bragged about grabbing women between the legs, that talked about megan kelling pleading from her eyes and i don't know where, and there has been some sort of surreal element to where the trump maga movement places women in society. i wonder if you think that abortion and dobbs and these conversations is sort of a circuit breaker moment for the country and for women in this country? >> it is obviously not a circuit breaker for all women. but we have seen in kansas certainly that at the very least for many women, the idea of the government making these decisions about your health and your health care really is a deal breaker for many women.

and, again, i think it is really important that we not lose sight of the fact that abortion is health care. but there are women like kate cox and amanda zeroffski who are being threatened because their doctors don't know where their medical judgment begins and where the law ends and that kind of chaos is exactly what these bans hope to sow. that is as effective as a deterrence. is the court on some major p.r. campaign to present itself as moderate and consensus driven. i think we've seen that over the course of the term even as we peter out to the end. there have been a number of unanimous decisions but then we have lots of separate concurrences and dissents. so they're having a hard time getting to unanimity even when they are unanimous. we've also seen for example, that they've taken a lot of cases from the fifth circuit and often turned back from the most

extreme positions that the fifth circuit has articulated. that's a p.r. move. the fif nl circuit existed to be a p.r. arm for this court. the fifth circuit is out there and when it reverses the circuit, it looks moderate even as it it is still moving to the right. it is just not moving as far to the right as the fifth circuit is. and then finally, let me just say this for -- for listeners, we have not talked at all since it opinion was up loaded about about the opinion everyone wants to know about and that is the trump immunity case. and it could not be discounted that everyone is focused on this decision, and will likely be for the next two days an not talking about the decision that it shouldn't have taken the court two months to decide. >> and it brings us back to the very real possibility that their sitting on that too. and that the person who clicked upload could have just as easily

as upload the immunity decision. i think many -- i'm going to ask you a question that i think i might know the answer to. it is all one conversation and very successful candidates like gretchen whitmer and josh shapiro in 2022 refused to allow the right in a shallow p.r. move or not, to aggregate democracy from abortion. talk about how imperative that is ahead of the 2024 election. >> it is so critical. i've been actually traveling with my colleagues from the democracy and voting rights povment raising this issue on the ground in critical battleground states and right now i'm in arizona. i was to give hope. i was meeting with organizers who are knocking some tough turf in the phoenix suburbs, talking to latino catholic voters about abortion, we have a ballot initiative here and we have tough senate race and

congressional races here. abortion is very much at the top of the mind and they're able to have tough conversations with voters and move folks who might say i'm pro-life, to our side on this issue by connecting the dots between democracy and the erosion of our confidence in democracy, our voting norms and the courts, by talking about dobbs and talking about roe and the fundamental freedoms. they're hearing back in the doors, i might have conflict about how i feel about abortion, but i do believe in fundamental freedom and i want my family to have the freedom to decide. and they understand the connectivity between those freedoms an the court. so it takes a little extra work. canvassing and organizing and good old-fashioned shoe leather. it is tough but it is a path to victory and i believe that is the kind of investment we need to bring back our freedom this november and we're on the path. >> i am fascinated by what

you're all saying and especially what you're saying, melissa, about the p.r. minded moves. let's continue that conversation. you've all made me smarter. my brain hurts a little bit. thank you so much for spending time with us and starting us off today. when we come back, it is being called a dry run for another coup attempt, how allies of the disgraced ex-president are testing the waters trying to overturn election results in battleground states now in preparation to do the very same thing in november. we'll bring you that story after a very short break. don't go anywhere. ere.

(man) every time i needed a new phone, i had to switch carriers... (roommate) i told him... at verizon, everyone can get the best deals, like that iphone 15 on them. (man) switching all the time... it wasn't easy. (lady) 35. (store customer) you're gonna be here forever. (man) i know. (employee) here is your wireless contract. (man) do i need a lawyer for this? those were hard days. representative. switch! now that i got a huge storage and battery upgrade...

i'm officially done switching. (vo) new and existing customers get iphone 15 on us when they trade in any iphone, any condition. guaranteed. (man) i really wished you told me sooner. (roommate) i did.

your record label is taking off. but so is your sound engineer. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire

why would americans assume that our constitution and our institutions in our republic arin vulnerable are another attack. a key lesson of this investigation is this. our institutions ome hold when men and women of good faith make they hold, regardless of the political cost. we have no guarantee that these men and women will be in place next time. any future president inclined to attempt what donald trump did in 2020 is now learned not to install people who could stand in the way. >> that is former congressman and january 6 select committee vice chair liz cheney sounding the alarm about the all too dangerous lesson that the

disgraced ex president and his allies learned from their first failed attempt to steal an election. now brand-new reporting in "the washington post" has uncovered a widespread effort by gop officials to block certification of election results in key battleground states. quote, since 2020, county level election officials in five key battleground states, georgia, arizona, michigan, nevada, and pennsylvania have tried to block the certification of vote tallies in both primaries and general elections. while so far, the efforts have failed, they could upend the next election. voting rights advocates belief that claims fraud by trump and his allies are sowing mistrust. raising the potential for unrest and even violence on a greater scale, too. and as liz cheney warns, many of the people who stopped trump in 2020 are no longer there. they've been replaced with true

believers of donald trump and the big lie. joining us now, voting rights attorney, the founder of the sight democracy doctet, mark alias. we've had a lot of conversations just this week about one that sort of lull in the chatter around domestic violent extremism tied to the big lie and dug into what is being peddled to trump supporters on fox news and it is the certainty that trump will win and if he doesn't, it is fraud. that is feeling like an even deeper and more dangerous line than what we towed in 2020, we think we're going to win and if we don't, we'll manufacture fraud. how do you feel about the tracks being laid by trump? >> i'm very, very worried. fact is that after the violent insurrection on january 6, republicans had a choice. they could either back away from

the brink, they could distance themselves from donald trump and his lies, they could tell the truth, which was donald trump lost the 2020 election fair and square, or they could do what they eventually did, which was to double down on the lie. so tay with more certainty that donald trump won 2020 when he doesn't. and to insist that there is some broad deep state conspiracy, whatever that means, to deny donald trump the election again in 2024. and so this is been building slowly. "the washington post" talks about the attacks on certification. let's remember, it was rona mcdaniel and donald trump who got on the phone with the two republican members of the wayne county dan canvassing board in 2020 to try to convince them not to certify the election results. when that failed, they tried to get the republican members of the statewide canvassing board not to certify. that almost exceeded but it failed.

in 2022 cochise county failed to certify the results and we sued them and they have now been indicted by the state. in pennsylvania, three counties refused to certify in the primary election. one county refused to certain in the general election, we sued them and forced them to certify. this has been building over and over again. building up and up rather. but it is much more dangerous for 2024 because the true believers, as you point out, are now more firmly in control of those offices. >> i mean, i have to sneak in a break but i want to ask you about the impact. people talk about the deterrent effect of the food soldiers of january 6 which i think is ludicrous, because the commander of january 6 is sitting fat and happy at mar-a-lago, literally. but you have the spouses of two supreme court justices who were enthusiasts of the insurrection and their symbols.

so i don't know how many, hundreds of prosecutions you need to override the fact that two of the nine households of the most powerful justices in our country are down with the insurrection -- and mission. i want to have that conversation and sneak in a quick break. please stay with us, mark alias. . (vo) if you have graves' disease, your eye symptoms could mean something more. that gritty feeling can't be brushed away. even a little blurry vision can distort things.

and something serious may be behind those itchy eyes. up to 50% of people with graves' could develop a different condition called thyroid eye disease, which should be treated by a different doctor. see an expert. find a t-e-d eye specialist at isitted.com for moderate to severe crohn's disease, skyrizi is the first il-23 inhibitor that can deliver remission and visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. liver problems may occur in crohn's disease. control of crohn's means everything to me. ask your gastroenterologist about skyrizi. ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ learn how abbvie could help you save.

i'm andrea, founder of a boutique handbag brand - andi - and this is why i switched to shopify. it's the challenges that we don't expect, like a site going down or the checkout wouldn't work. what's nice about shopify is when i'm with my family, when i'm taking time off, knowing that i have a site up and running and our business is moving forward because we have a platform that we can rely on. that is gold to us. start your free trial at shopify today. looking for a smarter way to mop? try the swiffer powermop. ♪♪ an all-in-one cleaning tool, with a 360-degree swivel head that goes places a regular mop just can't. ♪♪ mop smarter with the swiffer powermop. it is hard to understand why the court even took this case. i'm worried when justice

kavanaugh said you have to write for the ages. no, you don't. you need to decide the case if front of you and if do you that, you'll reach the same conclusions as the appellate court. that, president needs to be held accountable in the same way that any other american would be. any result other than that, i think is both absurd, and extremely, extremely dangerous. >> we're back with mark alias, former attorney general eric holder there, obviously, mark, talking about the immunity case. but we talk about sarah longwell who is running this republican voters against trump effort about permission structures and i wonder what sort of symbolically and by association the permission structure of the supreme court itself and the spouses of two of the justices create around the kinds of things you're talking about. >> yeah, i'm very worried about it. because the fact is that people

who engage in election denialism, that are not -- they don't come to this naturally. they come to it because they are first told lies. and they are sold that these lies are true. but then they have to look at the elites in their party, in their movement and for validation. and certainly there is no bigger validators of the lies than donald trump. let's be clear. that responsibility sort of begins and ends with him. but they loose look at the validation gyp by other elites. what are republican party leaders do. what are republican senators and house members do. but when it comes to legal matters, whether you're breaking the law or not, there is no more, you know, prominent validator than the u.s. supreme court. and we have seen the court undermine its legitimacy in so many ways. but one of the ways it is building up its legitimacy is on this very far right-wing that wants engage in election

denialism. so the very fact that as attorney general holder there, they took the immunity case, was a validation point for them. the fact that they engaged in what seemed to be a good faith debate about whether or not donald trump, if he was president, could assassinate his political opponents. i think we have not heard the last of it and i fear that that was a form of validation. what we saw would be flagged flying the upside down flag flying, which used to be a -- something that was viewed as an extraordinary sign of distress, that was sort of out of bounds. but which has now been legitimatized. and i would put one more thing on the table, nicolle, as you and the viewers watch the next couple oftable, nicole, as you d the viewers watch the next couple of days. there's a lot of focus on the trump immunity case, but there's another case that they'll have to decide, which is the fisher case. and this is whether or not a

provision in federal law prohibited the unlawful action in the nation's capital. and if the supreme court reverses the application of that statute to january 6th, that is going to be a very, very powerful validator for people who want to believe that the january 6th criminals were somehow framed. >> mark, what are you listening for in tomorrow night's debate on the issue of the supreme court and democracy from president joe biden? >> look, i think those are two different topics that are connected, but i think that they are two different topics. the president speaks as eloquently as anyone on the question of democracy. he has been full-throated in hissed a mow in additions to the american people, the importance of accepting election results and in laying out the case against donald trump, as a threat to democracy. i think he is less comfortable. he's an institutionalist. i think he is less comfortable intuitively talking about the

supreme court, as many lawyers are. as many people who have been around washington, d.c. are. but i think it's important that he continue to ratchet up the rhetoric, which he has, and really call out the supreme court for what it's doing, which is really undermining confidence in our democracy and issuing rulings that have really negative consequences for individual freedom and for rule of law. >> and then there's the small stuff, too. i mean, they can't seem to run their i.t. department and they're nowhere, awol on ethics. mark elise, as always, thank you very much for spending time with us and being part of all of our coverage. it's great to see you. up next for us, trump has always bragged about the power of his political endorsement. but turns out he may not actually have much reason to prague about it anymore. we'll show you that, next. ague . we'll show you that, next. developed with vets. made from real meat and veggies. portioned for your dog. and delivered right to your door.

it's smarter, healthier pet food.

to give your teeth a dentist clean feeling. start with a round brush head. add power. and you've got oral-b. round cleans better by surrounding each tooth to remove 100% more plaque. for a superior clean. oral-b. brush like a pro.

so much losing. tuesday was a big night of losing for donald trump and his once-coveted political endorsement, that landed major flops for his chosen candidates in three primary races. in utah's primary, to fill senator mitt romney's seat, the trump-packed candidate lost to john curtis, who has publicly criticized donald trump and has refused to endorse him for president. and in two house primary races, a narrow runoff in south

carolina, and by more than 30 points in colorado, more losing for donald trump. the politico calls, quote, the establishment's triumph after trump's preferences clash with republicans' desire to avoid adding to the group of rabble-rousers who have derailed their legislative agenda and ignited intra-party wars over the last two years. all of it resulting in an indication, as politico reports that, quote, there is a limit to trump's sway and plit operation that, quote, trump's endorsement is powerful, but it is not all-powerful. coming up for us in the next hour of "deadline: white house," president joe biden pulls a bipartisan -- builds a bipartisan coalition for democracy, a conservative critic of donald trump crosses the aisle and endorses president joe biden. we'll bring you that story, we'll show it to you after a quick break. don't go anywhere. don't go anywhere. g ingredients that start working on contact to target tough pain at the source. for up to 8 hours of powerful relief.

new advil targeted relief. this week on chewy, shop all your pet's favorites and get a $30 egift card. enjoy more savings on more food, more toys, and more treats. more of everything they love, delivered right to your door. only with chewy. (man) every time i needed a new phone, delivered right to your door. i had to switch carriers... (roommate) i told him... at verizon, everyone can get that iphone 15 on them. (man) now that i got a huge storage and battery upgrade... i'm officially done switching. (vo) new and existing customers get iphone 15 on us when they trade in any iphone. verizon

( ♪ ♪ ) start your day with nature made. the #1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand.

i'm a proud conservative. i always have been. as a proud conservative, i've always put democracy and our constitution above all else. and it's because of my unwavering support for democracy that today, as a proud conservative, i'm endorsing joe biden for re-election. >> hi, again, everyone. it's now 5:00 on the east. words that would have been unimaginable a few years ago. a stalwart, self-described conservative, a one-time tea party darling, crossing the political aisle to protect our democracy, as he puts it. president joe biden heading into an historic debate tomorrow night against the man who sought

to end democracy with winds in his sails thanks to an endorsement from a member of the other political party, former congressman adam kinzinger telling voters that donald trump just too dangerous to be sent back to the white house. >> donald trump poses a direct threat to every fundamental american value. he doesn't care about our country, he doesn't care about you. he only cares about himself. and he'll hurt anyone or anything in pursuit of power. he attacked the foundation of this nation, encouraging a violent mom of his supporters to march on the capital to prevent the peaceful transition of power. now he's become even more dangerous. he's called for termination of the constitution. he wants to be a dictator on day one. he actually said that. and he's continuing to stoke the flames of political violence. now's the time to unite behind joe biden and show donald trump off the stage once and for all. >> president joe biden re-tweeting adam kinzinger's endorsement and saying this, quote, this is what putting your

country before your party looks like. i'm grateful for your endorsement, adam. this full-throated repudiation of donald trump and enthusiasm endorsement of president joe biden comes from one of the ten members of congress who did more than nearly anyone else in revealing the inner workings of the trump coup plot of 2020, showing the entire nation and the world that what happened on january 6th wasn't some tragic accident, it wasn't something that just went too far, it was the result of months of deliberate plotting on the part of donald trump and seeding a lie in the part of donald trump that the election was stolen from him, putting that lie in the minds of millions of trump supporters, and as the mob stormed the capitol, trump sat back and watched his work. >> at the same time president trump was acknowledging privately that he had lost the election, he was hearing that there was no evidence of fraud

or irregularities sufficient to change the outcome. the president and his allies became keenly aware that with legal challenges exhausted and electoral votes certified, their only hope would be a last-ditch scheme to prevent congress from certifying the win. thus throwing the entire system into constitutional chaos. president trump ultimately wanted the department of justice to say the election was, quote, corrupt and, quote, leave the rest to me and the republican congressmen. we know many of president trump's vocal supporters on january 6th also wanted the justice department to do whatever he asked, as long as it meant that he could stay in power. president trump did not fail to act during the 187 minutes between leaving the ellipse and telling the mob to go home. he chose not to act. >> his work on the january 6th select committee earned adam kinzinger donald trump's wrath.

it came with death threats, the arc of kinzinger's public time after january 6th stands in stark contrast to so many of his fellow republicans, who chose, instead, to overlook trump's role in plotting the insurrection or make excuses or go straight down the rabbit hole of trump's conspiracies around the 2020 election. now adam kinzinger is speaking to many of his fellow republicans out there, who may be looking for that permission structure to pull the lever and cross over and vote, just this one time, maybe, for president joe biden, saying, quote, there's too much at stake to sit on the sidelines. it's where we start the hour with some of our favorite experts and friends. former republican congressman, msnbc political analyst, david jolly is here. also joining us, msnbc columnist and contributor, charlie sykes is here. and democratic strategist, msnbc political analyst, cornell belcher is here. i want to start with you, david jolly, and i want to dispel the

notion that people like adam kinzinger or judge lutig or liz cheney were squishy and could go either way on politics. the three of them in particular were hard-core right-wing conservatives who saw a constitutional and democracy argument in not just abandoning joed -- abandoning donald trump, but embracing and endorsing -- i guess liz cheney hasn't taken that step yet, but she seems to be inching in that direction, as does judge lutig. talk about the impact of not just wearing the never-trump jersey, but of becoming a biden supporter for adam kinzinger. >> i love your framing, nicole. because not all never-trumps are hard-right conservatives. i was originally a squishy moderate and i'm still a squishy

moderate, happy to ally with democrats and joe biden, but the likes of adam kinzinger and liz cheney and lutig and others, they have real ideological reservations. they oppose a lot of what the biden administration does. these are not squishy moderates. so the import of that is, they're acting on convictions that put democracy and the country first in their view of the world. and it's, you know, what you often talk about, the permission structure for hard-wright conservatives who may oppose joe biden on policy, recognizing in their view of the world, there's something greater. i think the other important thing that we're seeing here, and has been well-reported that adam's former chief has gone over to the biden camp to help organize and coalesce disaffected republicans. we see the endorsement now of the former congressman. absolutely living in that former republican member world. i can tell you, the uptick in activity among the biden campaign to reach out to disaffected republicans, even currently registered republicans, that uptick is

real. and if we're seeing it at the grass tops, if you will, the former electives, you know they also have a plan for digital targeting, to reach that nikki haley voter, who said, i can't vote for donald trump. if the biden camp is reaching adam kinzinger, they're reaching adam kinzinger's cousins down there. the other disaffected voters you may have never heard of. and that's an important moment for the biden campaign to make that move. >> the right can't figure out what to do with the never-trump coalition. i, too, am a squish, and was never super comfortable with the hard-right positions of the republican party, voting for hillary clinton was the easiest vote i'd ever cast, a lot of republicans said, oh, it was the hardest thing i'd ever done. one look at donald trump, it was the easiest vote i'd ever cast, followed very closely by, you know, a tie for the easiest vote i'd ever cast for joe biden. donald trump is such a glaring threat to any republican who's been active in the last 20

years, who saw democracy as this cause worthy of trying to export. i mean, the hypocrisy, the rank hypocrisy means that republicans owe more to the country. they owe more to the democracy, to try to undo republican support for trump. >> well, and adam is so clear, his message, you know, i was struck by the clarity of his message about the danger that donald trump opposes. and you know, to david's point, though, this is not easy for people like adam kinzinger. it's not easy for people like judge lutig and liz cheney, because they are conservatives. they do not embrace the entire biden agenda. they're not waving pom-poms here, but they have looked at exactly what donald trump has done, what he is saying he's going to do and the prospects of another trump presidency. and so i do think that it's significant. and i think that you're going to see more of -- more republicans joining. and again, the fact that these

are conservative republicans is crucial for providing that permission, that -- you know, to go to conservatives, who will list all the things they don't like about the biden administration and say, okay, you know, this is not about, you know, right and left right now. this is about that vertical, you know, that -- the vertical line of democracy and authoritarianism. and i think it's very important. and think about where -- where, you know, adam kinzinger falls in all of this. because we've had so many other republicans saying that they are not going to vote for donald trump again. now, mike pence hasn't gone as far as mike kinzinger, but it's extraordinary you have donald trump's former vice president saying he will not vote for him. it is extraordinary when you have, you know, members of the trump cabinet saying, we do not want him back in power again. and there will be more. i mean, i would expect that you're going to hear from liz cheney. so going into november, you're going to have a compelling case

of people who are crossing the lines and saying, look, we are putting our ideological differences aside for this moment, because of what donald trump represents and the threat to our republican system of government that he represents. >> cornell, i want to show you what some of that looks like. i have some of those cabinet officials and pence saying, just what charlie said, but i want to hit pause and sort of harken back to what must be sort of an uncomfortable, but necessary alliance. i mean, i think the democratic coalition deserves some credit at this point for welcoming all of the republicans in. i think that the interview that my colleague, rachel maddow did with liz cheney is for me what i think of when i wonder what the inner monologue is for democrats. where rachel made sure to say to liz cheney, listen, you'll have to make sure to come back so we

can fight about all the stuff that we disagree on, but this is a moment, as david and charlie are talking about, that is so urgent that we're going to be in the trenches together fighting against trump and importantly trumpism. and i wonder if you can pull back the curtain and tell me how that sits or manifests in the rooms of democratic operatives and strategists. >> well, i think -- let me hit on something that you said, the democratic coalition, i think it's a democratic coalition, small "d." it is a coalition of those who really are on the side of democracy. and one thing i do -- and i smile at this, nicole. i think smart people on your show, you throw around a permission structure, which is an insider messaging term all the time, but i want to unpack this for our voters, because i think it's important, you know, congressman said today, i certainly don't agree with joe biden on everything. and i never thought that i would be voting for him, right?

so what permission structure does is, for those other republicans listening out there, that's relatable. like, what we call a head notter, right? it's like, yeah, yeah, i'm the same way and that sort of -- and i feel the same way, and that is sort of building the permission structure to in fact do this. so i think there is a coalition being built here. you know, a democratic coalition being built here. small "d." and by the way, i also think that you're going to start seeing, you know, congressman kinzinger along with other republicans rolling out some battleground states, in fact, doing some campaigning, look for lieutenant, you know, georgia lieutenant governor duncan with kinzinger soon, in georgia, doing some campaigning. and it adds to a really important coalition here, right? the coalition for democracy isn't a coalition that's about left or right or liberal or conservative. it's about upholding our

democracy and what our fundamental values and beliefs are that cut across partisan lines. >> let me show you, david jolly, some of that sound i was talking about, of the people who saw trump up close and personal, who will not, who are not supporting him in 2024, and ask you what joe biden does with that tomorrow night at the debate. >> sure. >> do you think donald trump was a threat to democracy? >> i think that given the events of january 6th, given how he has undermined the election results, he incited people to come to d.c., stirred them up that morning, and failed to call them off. to me, that threatens our democracy. >> fundamentally a second trump term could mean the end of american democracy as we know it. >> the fact that he feels that he needs to lead into a dictator alone shows he is a weak and feeble man. >> it should not come as a surprise that i will not be endorsing donald trump this

year. >> we have never nominated a convicted felon before and this is not a good time to start. >> again, i -- i think for the most part, those folks have not pulled the lever that adam kinzinger pulled today and endorsed biden, but just as powerfully, they saw donald trump, when we didn't, right, in the oval office, in the tank briefings at the pentagon, and they said, no, thank you. >> yeah, look, i think it's fair game for tomorrow night and nor the national conversation going into november. why is it that the people closest to donald trump can't support his return to the white house? the people who know him best have said, he's dangerous to our democracy. and i would expect that the moderates or joe biden to ask donald trump that tomorrow, and donald trump will call them all losers. but frankly, when he does that, he'll remind the american people how divisive he is and why they couldn't vote for him last go-around. donald trump will have to answer to it. i want to bring in your last

question to cornell. it's relevant though, and we are at an inflection point, nicole, that we have not seen in six years. it's really important. you asked the question specifically about the democratic party reaching out to republicans. and as someone who opposed trump as early as 2015, didn't vote for him in '16, left the party over the trend line, but certainly donald trump being an inflection point. the level of frustration i had going through the 18 and 20 and '22 cycles, realizing that this coalition had been gifted to democrats. and nobody really knew what to do with it, what it looked like, but all of a sudden, democrats inherited a bunch of democratic performing voters that may have been registered republicans or disaffected or independents, but parties are not set up to bring in voters like that. it's why you have mitt romney and mike pence and others saying, oh, i could never vote for joe biden, i could never reach across the aisle to joe biden. and democrats likewise have been protective. they don't need former republicans, they got to the white house on their open, their

policies are their own, we've never supported their policies. it's been natural for them to say, thanks for participating, thanks for giving us your vote, but you don't need a seat at the table. now they're saying to former republicans, welcome to a seat at the table. and that is a change in direction that i believe under joe biden's specific leadership that let's bring in former republicans to this new national coalition. >> yeah, i mean, one of the reasons cornell that i think republicans are so rabid over things like hunter biden and things that seem so inaccepted and inane if you're living on earth one, they haven't really figured out how to land a knockout, to the degree that republicans even hunger for a cohesive narrative, and that is not all of them. but the idea that joe biden is almost exasperatingly committed to working with republicans whek. he was going to try to fix immigration with the partnership of republicans in the senate. he refused to do immigration

without republicans. he allowed republicans who voted against the infrastructure bill to travel on air force one, to tout the infrastructure package they oppose. just talk about how joe biden uniquely sits in the pocket of what david jolly is articulating. >> i mean, that's really good point. it's -- we forget this, but it wasn't like joe biden was ever a darling of the far-left. he was never a darling of the most progressive parts of the democratic base coalition. he was always sort of a center or middle of the road, sort of moderate leader and legislator. and again, it's someone who harkens back to tradition, right, of the senate, right? and it is -- there's rules and ethics of the road that go along with being a senator, and you do sort of work across being a senate, not the house, you do try to reach across and be

cordial and bring along your colleagues in a way that it seems like old -- it seems like old times now, but it wasn't that long ago that senators actually act that way, and to a certain extent, he is the perfect person for this moment, because he has lived that as a senator, the old tradition of trying to reach across party lines and him talking about some of his best friends in the senate have been republicans, right? and reaching across party lines and working with those people. and that's exactly what america needs right now, is someone who will reach across lines, and bring all americans together, regardless of, but again, to his point, country above party. >> yeah, and it just makes it difficult for some of those attacks about his politics to stick. it's why they sort of keep grappling, which is why donald trump is running around talking about him getting a shot in the rear end. cornell, we'll continue to call on you this week to see how it

shapes up. david and charlie, stick around a little bit longer. when we come back, we'll get a chance to hear directly from the biden campaign about what president joe biden's strategy will be tomorrow night on the debate stage. we'll have that conversation with senior biden/harris communications adviser, t.j. ducklo next. plus, proof positive that the maga takeover of the gop is complete. senior house members including the speaker of the house are going to bat to keep steve bannon out of the way. and evan gershkovich facing charges of espionage despite zero evidence and advisory heemt denials from both "the wall street journal." former ambassador to russia michael mcfaul will be our guest later in the hour. "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. even in your machine. clean enough for you? yeah! scrape. load. done. cascade platinum plus. smile! you found it.

the feeling of finding psoriasis can't filter out the real you. so go ahead, live unfiltered with the one and only sotyktu, a once-daily pill for moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, and the chance at clear or almost clear skin. it's like the feeling of finding you're so ready for your close-up. or finding you don't have to hide your skin just your background. once-daily sotyktu was proven better, getting more people clearer skin than the leading pill. don't take if you're allergic to sotyktu; serious reactions can occur. sotyktu can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections, cancers including lymphoma, muscle problems, and changes in certain labs have occurred. tell your doctor if you have an infection, liver or kidney problems, high triglycerides, or had a vaccine or plan to. sotyktu is a tyk2 inhibitor. tyk2 is part of the jak family. it's not known if sotyktu has the same risks as jak inhibitors. find what plaque psoriasis has been hiding. there's only one sotyktu, so ask for it by name. so clearly you. sotyktu. (man) every time i needed a new phone, so clearly you. i had to switch carriers...

(roommate) i told him... at verizon, everyone can get that iphone 15 on them. (man) now that i got a huge storage and battery upgrade... i'm officially done switching. (vo) new and existing customers get iphone 15 on us when they trade in any iphone. verizon

predicting a biden disaster means anything short of a disaster is a biden win. >> i believe that biden, there is a low expectation, and i think that biden will overperform. i think they're going to juice him up the way they juiced him up for the state of the union. >> they have tried to set up biden as well as they possibly can, a three-on-one debate versus trump that includes the two cnn moderators with expectations set rock bottom and no live audience. in every single sense of the word, it's cnn moderating the debate in their home turf with no home audience. this would be like the equivalent of hosting the debate in mississippi with donald trump hosted by fox news with a 3,000-person audience. >> unfortunately for joe, there will be no scripts at thursday's

debate. he will have to rely on his memory. luckily from biden, he'll probably get some help from the two so-called moderators. fake dana bash and fake jake tapper are two moderates who hate donald trump. >> hello to our friends on earth, too, trump said "yes"! this is just a peek into how trump's allies over there on earth, too, are lowering expectations for their audiences, right? they're all anchors at fox news, and this is what they need their viewers to think and hear over and over again, ahead of tomorrow night. why? trump and his right-wing media allies have spent days now leading up to the debate, throwing anything that they can think of, akin to spaghetti at the wall, seeing which attacks on president joe biden and the moderaors might stick. the biden campaign responded by saying, donald trump is so scared of being held

accountabler for his toxic agenda of attacking reproductive freedom and cutting sz that he and his allies are resorting to desperate, obviously false lies. joining us, as someone who is in the room, senior adviser for communications for the biden campaign, t.j. decklo is with us now from atlanta, the site of tomorrow night's debate. we have a million questions. first off, though, how's debate prep going for president biden? >> you know, it's going well. and look, the president's excited. he's going to stay on that stage tomorrow night, nicole, just a short distance from where we are. he's going to talk about the future. he's going to talk about his vision for a second term, which means, you know, protecting freedoms, not ripping them away, and making sure that everyone in this country has a fair shot, versus donald trump, who continues to brag about his role in overturning roe v. wade, who thinks the extreme abortion bans all across the country are working, quote, just the way they're supposed to. he's going to -- trump continues to support the failed

trickle-down economic approach, cutting taxes for billionaires, but drives up the cost for the rest of us. and as you covered extensively today and as you cover every day on this show, trump is an existential, urgent throat our democracy. he promises to rule as a dictator on day one, he promises a bloodbath if he loses, he promises to replace civil servants with his loyalists. that's the contrast i think folks are going to see tomorrow night and we're excited to make it. >> how much of the prep is around the substance and how much of the prep is around the performance, making sure he's seen in the swam that people saw him after state of the union, as loose, as being able to respond in the moment to republican hecklers, to calling all of those audibles, and being able to stand up to whatever ludicrous sort of bullying tactics trump brings with him? >> you know, this is a president who has debated donald trump

before. he's used to being in big moments. he always steps up, he always shows up in big moments. but we also don't know what version of donald trump we're going to get on that stage. we could get the low-energy local news version of trump, or we could get rally trump, where he's talking about, you know, whether he would be electrocuted or eaten by sharks or how much he loves hannibal lecter. whatever version shows up, the president will be ready and talk about how toxic donald trump's agenda is and make him defend his record. donald trump has only done one or two mainstream live television interviews since january 6th. he has not had the opportunity to really be questioned about his record. so we're looking forward to the voter and the focus at home who are going to tune in tomorrow night really exploring donald trump's record, maybe for the first time in a while, versus the hard work that the president is doing every day to actually deliver results for the american people. >> t.j., i've been in the room to prepare some of the world's

sort of least-acclaimed debaters and one of the things we look for or opportunities to sort of hang a lantern around our own perceived weaknesses, for george bush, it was acknowledging, you know, i think he said something like, you may not always agree with me, but you'll always know where i stand. his policies were widely unpopular. for sarah palin, there was something about her lack of experience, when she actually debated joe biden. i wonder if there is something that the president is intent on getting to before the moderators or donald trump gets to first? >> i think the president is excited to talk about what he's done, but he's also excited to talk about the future. this is a president who has gotten more done in his first term than any president in modern history, but elections are about the future. so while we're incredibly proud to have passed the first piece of gun legislation in 30 years, this president believes in a second term, we have to ban

high-capacity magazines and assault weapons in this country. we're incredibly proud to have gotten $5 billion of student loans relieved, but look, in a second term, there's billions more to go. we're incredibly proud to cap insulin. $35 for seniors, it should be capped at $35 for everyone. in the president's mind, he's talking about looking forward, moving this country forward, and drawing a sharp contrast with donald trump, who as you talked about constantly is running a campaign of revenge and retribution only for himself, and is now a convicted felon, because he will do anything it takes, including breaking the law, to get into power. >> do you expect a convicted president to come out of president joe biden's mouth early on? skbling folks will have to tune in to see. that is a fact that he is a convicted felon. >> indeed. >> but the important point here is not the fact that he is one, nicole, but it's why. and the reason why because he is willing to do whatever it takes to get power for himself, versus joe biden who wakes up every day

fighting for the american people, delivering result on the issues of folks at home actually care about. >> t.j., i know these are busy days. come back tomorrow and let us know about any last-minute preparations or anything you're seeing in the information ecosystem. thank you for spending time with us today. >> sounds good. thanks for having me. >> when we come back, republican leaders in congress are earning their maga stripes today. how house speaker mike johnson is leading the charge to upend the rule of law to keep pardoned steve bannon from going to prison. that story is next. bannon from o prison that story is next i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire (man) every time i needed a new phone, matching your job description. i had to switch carriers... (roommate) i told him... at verizon, everyone can get that iphone 15 on them. (man) now that i got a huge storage and battery upgrade... i'm officially done switching. (vo) new and existing customers get iphone 15 on us when they trade in any iphone.

verizon summer. it's the hungriest time of year for kids across america. kids whose hardworking families are struggling to make ends meet. whether it's working the crazy hours so you can have enough money for food or, you know, just giving up things for your personal self, and it's just yeah, gotta feed your kids. far too many kids are missing the meals they need this summer. that's why i'm here now asking you to join me in helping end child hunger in america for just $0.63 a day. that's only $19 a month. you can help provide healthy meals to power kids through their days. they're growing at this age, and they need the best diet they can have. so please, call now or go online to helpnokidhungry.org right now give $19 a month, only $0.63 a day. and when you use your credit card,

you'll get this special team t-shirt to show that you're helping kids build a brighter future for themselves and for the world. we want to ensure that all of our kids have healthy meals every day, and many of our parents and many of our communities are still suffering. it's very difficult to, you know, have a good family setting when we are worrying about having enough food for your family. you can help kids get healthy meals this summer and all year long. please join me in supporting no kid hungry today. for just $0.63 a day, only $19 a month. you can help provide healthy meals to kids across america and in your local community. thank you for giving. thank you for giving. thank you! families are struggling to make ends meet. these are hard times. so please call now or go online to give.

they could have wheeled a trampoline on to the house floor today, given everyone in the chamber a go and still elected republicans would have used their time and energy more productively than they have in their latest adventure. because now, apparently, the people's business includes keeping pardoned steve bannon out of prison. speaker mike johnson saying house republicans are working to file an amicus brief in bannon's emergency appeal to the united states supreme court. hard to say which part of that decision is more degrading, the fact that the gop is sticking its neck out for a trump ally who ignored a subpoena from their body, having to do with a deadly attack on their own place of work, or that by arguing bannon should have been allowed to ignore the subpoena, and are

effectively endorsing a diminished version of their own congressional authority. steve bannon is due to report to prison but july to start a four-month sentence for a crime he did commit. we're back with david jolly and charlie sykes. charlie, it's -- mike johnson is sort of an amazing maga underworld, underbelly figure. talk about the series of choice he's making around steve bannon. >> well, it's the same series of choices he's made around what he's willing to do for donald trump, what he's willing to say, how he's willing to have the house of representatives turned into an instrument of the obstruction of justice. it's bizarre and i'm sorry to repeat the phrase, it is not normal for congressional leaders faced with serious issues to spend, you know, this much time trying to keep somebody like steve bannon out of jail. but it is an indication of what the congressional republican

party the, and what they feel they need to do to, you know, to throw sops to both donald trump and the maga world. and it's an indication of what you would get if there was a trump 2.0 presidency. if anyone thinks that would be any resistance on the part of congressional leaders to the worst abuses of the trump administration, look at the way they're behaving right now when he's not even in power, that they're willing to do this sort of thing. >> you know, and the supreme court is once again another character in this story. steve bannon begged for a pardon in the final hours and days of the trump presidency, for another crime that wasn't really in dispute. he scammed his supporters and trump's when it came to building a wall. he solicited donations, they didn't go toward the wall or anything remotely resembling the

woman. they fattened his pockets. and he's now in trouble again. the issue of criminal sort of recidivism is another plot point that keeps repeating itself in trump's inner-most circle, david jolly. >> that's right, and we're seeing the law catch up with steve bannon. and so you see, you know, nine fish flop around before they expire. but what he's hoping for and what all other trump criminal network people are hoping for, i guess if you can call them that, is that if trump wins and he's able to alleviate the accountability they're facing. but i think there's a behavior that we see in steve bannon that donald trump himself has normalized. and it is the refusal to even recognize the authority of basic institutions. steve bannon would not be in this place of having to report to prison if he had just shown up. he didn't actually have to cooperate with congress. he had to respond to the subpoena and show up, and then say, you know what, i'm not answering your questions, for these following reasons, where

i'm pleading the fifth or exert other privileges. instead, he notionally set out this executive privilege and said, screw you device to congress, and congress said, that's not the way this works. when they made the referral, the department of justice said, there's been zero cooperation. contrast that with the hunter biden scenario, with the united states congress. in an adverse witness, who really does not want to report, at least shows some level of cooperation and some level of making legal claims in their own defense to congress, the department of justice does not want to touch contempt of congress claims. but with steve bannon, he just said, i don't care who guys are. i don't recognize your authority. i'm not going to cooperate with you. the stupid part for steve bannon is all he had to do was show up and shut up, but he didn't do it and now he's going to jail. >> yeah, i mean, it is the hubris, it is the sort of "f" you that has him in this position. let me turn, though to the substance of his role on january 6th. let me show you this.

this is a presentation from congresswoman zoe loftgren, charlie. >> but the evidence indicates that mr. bannon had advanced knowledge of mr. trump's intent to declare victory falsely on election night, but also, that mr. bannon knew about mr. trump's planning for january 6th. here's what bannon said an january 5th. >> all hell is going to break lose tomorrow. it's all converging and now we're on the point of attack, right? the point of attack tomorrow. i'll tell you this, it's not going to happen like you think it's going to happen, okay? it's going to be quite extraordinarily different. and all can i say is, strap in. you have made this happen and tomorrow, it's game day. so strap in, let's get ready. >> let's talk about steve backup, he's a central figure in

his malevolent role he plays in attacking the establishment and his suck-uppery to the establishment. he's a main source covering the maga movement, very proud of his contributions to it and this feels a little bit like the moment catching up with him, charlie. >> it is, he is the id of the maga movement, but keep in mind he's doing the bidding of the former president of the united states, the future president of the united states, and let's go back to mike johnson. mike johnson is looking at him and says, this is our guy, this is somebody that we want to defend. this is somebody who is a victim. so the larger picture here is the assault on any sort of illegal accountability for people who were involved with january 6th. this is a part of this revisionist history, turning january 6th into some sort of legitimate protest. and republicans in congress are now all in on all of this. so, you know, donald trump is out on a regular basis, you know, joining himself with the

january 6th rioters, pledging that he will pardon all of them. and in many ways, you know, steve bannon is just a symbol of all of that. what's extraordinary is that mike johnson has a choice to make. he could distance himself from that, over this, and move on, instead, because donald trump is demanding it, he has to go and use his authority to try to defend steve bannon, who is obviously in deeply involved in the conspiracy to try to overturn this election. but again, this is all part of this continuum. this attack on the criminal justice system, this insistence that they're all victims. and the fact that the republican party, the party of law and order, and i can't get over this, and i'm sure david can't either, the party of law and order, you go now to a trump rally, and people go, voting for the convicted felon.

the chairman of the party said, i am voting for the convicted felon. and the more felons they are, the more zealous i'm going to be in supporting them. this is -- we are in really weird moment in american politics. and it's not just -- and when we talk about democracy, but there's real assault on the concept of the rule of law if you de-legitimatize the entire criminal justice system and you turn criminal behavior like steve bannon's into some sort of a martyrdom. extraordinary moment. thank you for putting it under the klieg lights for us. thank you for spending time today with us on this. the secret trial now journeyway in russia against "wall street journal" reporter gershkovich. what we know as the trial unfolds. what we know as the trial unfolds.

life with afib can mean a lifetime of blood thinners. and if you're troubled by falls and bleeds, worry follows you everywhere. ♪♪ over 400,000 people have left blood thinners behind with watchman. watchman is a safe, minimally—invasive, one—time implant that reduces stroke risk and bleeding worry, for life. ♪♪ watchman. it's one time, for a lifetime. i'm andrea, and this is why i switched to shopify. it gave me so much peace of mind. if we make a change, my site's not going to go down. and just knowing that i have a platform that we can rely on, that is gold to us. start your free

trial today. (man) every time i needed a new phone, i had to switch carriers... (roommate) i told him... at verizon, everyone can get that iphone 15 on them. (man) now that i got a huge storage and battery upgrade... i'm officially done switching. (vo) new and existing customers get iphone 15 on us when they trade in any iphone. verizon

after 15 months of being detained by russia, the trial of "wall street journal" reporter evan gershkovich began today in russian court. evan gershkovich, pictured here in a padlocked glass cage, has been detained by russia on espionage charges that are vigorously denied by him, by "the wall street journal," and the united states government. he faces up to 20 years in prison if he is found guilty, which is all but certain, given that as the associated press reports today, quote, russian courts convict more than 99% of

the defendants who come before them. in a joint statement, "the wall street journal" publisher and editor in chief reacted to the start of the trial writing this, quote, it is jarring to see evan in yet another courtroom for a sham trial held in secret and based on fabricated accusations. evan's wrongful detention continues to be a devastating assault on his freedom and his work at an unfathomable attack on the free press. let's bring into our coverage, former u.s. ambassador to russia and msnbc international affairs analyst, michael mcfaul. it is so upsetting to see him there, as it was brittany greiner, as it is folks i know you know, who are still being held illegally by vladimir putin in russia. tell me what the prospects are for his release, if any, ahead of this concluding and proceeding? >> well ahead of the trial

concluding, i don't think there's any chance whatsoever. they'll go through the proceedings, they have to convict him. they will, of course, convict him, just as you reported. there's no rule of law in russia. people need to remember that. and then, mr. putin, he's hinted that he wants a trade. he wants to get his killer, an fsb agent that killed somebody in germany, he's hinted as recently as his interview with tucker carlson that he wants to trade him, was there's a big problem with that. one, his killer, his agent is in germany, not the united states. and two, he's a killer. evan is not. evan is an innocent man. but it's clear to me that that's what putin is hinting at. we'll see if that deal happens. but not until he is convicted and -- is convicted and goes to jail with a long sentence,

tragically. >> ambassador mcfall, we have to deal with trump's utterances. they are truly, they are figments of trump's imagination, usually, but you still want to deal with them. trump mosted this. evan gershkovich, the young "wall street journal" reporter who was being harshly detained in russia, as his espionage trial is about to begin, will be released prior to my taking office. if i win the election on november 5th. crooked joe can't do anything right, although it is likely that he will pay billions, which continues a very bad biden precedent to get evan home. i got a record 58 hostages brought home paying next to nothing. putin has no respect for biden and that's the way it goes. fear not, evan, i will get you home or true and truly terrifying in that vein, if there's some back channel to putin. how do you analyze this, and how should we? >> both are equally troubling, aren't they? first of all, i would say to

mr. trump, if he has that back channel, get them out today. you don't have to be president to do that. call mr. putin today, release him, and show us that you have such capabilities in dealing with russia. maybe that would be good for mr. trump's re-election campaign. i don't know. but there's no reason he needs to wait. but number two, if he does have that back channel, as you rightly pointed out, that is disturbing. most certainly mr. putin and mr. trump ideologically have a lot in common. most certainly they have a lot in common with regard to foreign policy. whether they have a secret channel or not, i don't know. but ideologically, they're very close together. of course, for me, that's disturbing to me because what mr. putin is doing in the world is not in my view in america's national interest. but mr. trump often times has a different opinion. >> ambassador, what are the prospects, if there is some effort to get evan out, of

releasing other folks? i know there are other people you know that are still there that we don't talk about as often. they're not -- they're not being tried in this high-profile manner. but what are the efforts publicly and privately to get them released? >> it's just -- it's very difficult. and it is a long list, right? paul whelan, mark foegele -- we forget about her because she's our dual citizen. but she's a journalist detained, an american citizen, detained in putin's russia today. these are hard deals. the russians play hard ball. they're trying to get criminals out with innocent people. those are really tough choices that president biden has had to make in the past. and i applaud, by the way, that he made them in the past to get other americans out. but the price goes up, and there are fewer and fewer people available in american prisons. and that's why this particular

deal will be difficult because the guy that putin really wants -- remember, he's an fsb agent that went to germany and assassinated somebody that putin called a bandit. that's the guy putin really wants out. and that's going to be a very difficult trade to put together. >> ambassador michael mcfaul, we'll stay on top of this with your help. thank you for joining us today. it's always great to see you. another break for us. we'll be right back. to see you another break for us we'll be right back. at iphone 1. (man) now that i got a huge storage and battery upgrade... i'm officially done switching. (vo) new and existing customers get iphone 15 on us when they trade in any iphone. verizon

♪♪ ♪♪ citi's industry leading global payments solutions help their clients move money around the world seamlessly in over 180 countries... and help a partner like the world food programme

as they provide more than food to people in need. together, citi and the world food programme empower families across the globe. ♪♪ power e*trade's easy to-use tools make complex trading less complicated. custom scans help you find new trading opportunities, while an earnings tool helps you plan your trades and stay on top of the market. e*trade from morgan stanley (man) every time i needed a new phone, and stay on top of the market. i had to switch carriers... (roommate) i told him... at verizon, everyone can get that iphone 15 on them. (man) now that i got a huge storage and battery upgrade... i'm officially done switching. (vo) new and existing customers get iphone 15 on us when they trade in any iphone. verizon

president joe biden today pardoned thousands of veterans who were convicted of crimes under a now repealed military law that banned gay sex for more than 60 years from the year 1951 all the way up to when it was rewritten in the year 2013. those pardons, which service members will have to apply for, mean that those service members would be eligible for the financial benefits that had been withheld because of their convictions. in a statement, president joe biden called the convictions a, quote, historic wrong, adding, quote, we have a sacred obligation to all of our service members, including our brave lgbtq service members, to properly prepare and equip them when they are sent into harm's way and to care for them and their families when they return home. today we are making progress in that pursuit. another break for us. we'll be right back. break for us we'll be right back. ds. with all the money i saved i thought i'd buy stilts. hi honey. ahhh...ooh.

look, no line at the hot dog stand. yes! only pay for what you need. ♪liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty.♪ (vo) if you have graves' disease, your eye symptoms could mean something more.ou need. that gritty feeling can't be brushed away. even a little blurry vision can distort things. and something serious may be behind those itchy eyes. up to 50% of people with graves' could develop a different condition called thyroid eye disease, which should be treated by a different doctor. see an expert. find a t-e-d eye specialist at isitted.com i brought in ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein! those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks. -ugh. -here, i'll take that. woo hoo! ensure max protein, 30 grams protein, 1 gram sugar, 25 vitamins and minerals. and a new fiber blend with a prebiotic. (♪♪)

to me, harlem is home. but home is also your body. i asked myself, why doesn't pilates exist in harlem? so i started my own studio. getting a brick and mortar in new york is not easy. chase ink has supported us from studio one to studio three. when you start small, you need some big help. and chase ink was that for me. earn up to 5% cash back on business essentials with the chase ink business cash card from chase for business. make more of what's yours.