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during these extraordinary times. we are grateful. "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. hi, ari. >> hi, nicolle. thank you so much. we have news out of the supreme court. today is one of its last three scheduled decision days, and the news is a clue that the court may be slightly backing off its anti-roe and anti-choice rulings as of late. i say a clue, not a formal ruling yet, because while the court has not issued its ruling about whether to possibly allow emergency abortions in idaho, a very conservative state that has limited them, today i can tell you something unusual. the supreme court's website appeared to accidentally post what appears to be that draft decision. and it would, according to what i'm telling you, which is apparently a mistake in leak or draft of it, it would allow those procedures under that draft. so, this is an apparent clerical digital error. and it marks a win for the biden

administration. the draft of six justices siding with the biden doj on allowing the procedure. you might remember the court also had a much more deliberate leak of the draft decision that overturned roe, the final decision there matching the draft was written by justice alito. these ongoing legal clashes over choice stem quite directly from trump's appointed justices. they made the difference that overturned roe. and here on debate eve, it is striking to see the warnings on that very issue that came during trump and biden's one and only debate back in 2020. >> the president also is opposed to roe v. wade. that's on the ballot as well. and the court, in the court. so, that's also at stake right now. and so the election is all -- >> you don't know it's on the ballot. why is it on the ballot? why is it on the ballot?

it's not on the ballot. >> it's on the ballot in the courts. >> i don't think so. there's nothing happening there. >> there's nothing happening there, is what then-president trump claimed. and he seized on that moment of saying, well, there wasn't a technical abortion referendum. that's true. the election of donald trump already uncorked all these changes. so, what was the larger obvious issue was what biden was saying. if you keep adding these kind of judges, you may have a lot of laws overturned. and that's exactly what happened. in other words, elections have consequences. trump's high court ended roe. it has also sided with corporations and is currently delaying any possible trump coup trial until after the election because of the people then-president trump put on the court. that brings us up to tomorrow. these two candidates will face off for the first time since that debate where i just showed you a little clip of it. for all of this talk about style and debate rules and expectations or age, there's actually one major factual

reason that a lot of of democrats are bullish about biden's chances. he has more debate experience than any living candidate in the country. literally. you know, it's easy to forget that biden has done more debates on the national ticket than any recent candidate. he's faced all kinds of debating styles, from republicans to democrats. and we've actually tried to chart the highlights for you. and they barely fit into one graphic. this is just some of the big debates biden has done. in fact, we'll -- you know what? let's leave this up for a little bit so you can just digest it. i know the news moves fast. but we put this all together here, so i'm going to leave it up and walk you through some of it. in the upper left, there's his first presidential run all the way back in 1987, a campaign dogged by a phrase that led to accusations of plagiarism. it was seen as a big gaffe then. but that kind of claim, misusing words or plagiarism, wouldn't

even make donald trump's top 20 scandals these days. then you can see biden has faced democrats who went on to become the party nominee. the upper right shows him debating obama and clinton. if you're a political junkie, you may remember that. younger voters and others may have forgotten or not been there for it. biden didn't win those debates but marked a performance that impressed obama, leading to his national running mate debate with sarah palin. and let's be clear, sarah palin running as an insurgent. she was an unusual foe in her style, like trump. you can see biden looking pretty in command there. politico -- we checked. they reported at the time that biden's outing against paul ryan went so well that, quote, whatever biden was drinking thursday night, obama ought to order a case of it.

interesting to check the archives because we hear a lot of talk about how biden should be more like obama, a very talented two-term president. that was the view then that at least that week he had done better than the guy at the top of the ticket. so, when it comes to national debates, joe biden has done primary debates in three different campaign cycles and several debates a piece sometimes on the democratic side. then he did another three sets on the national tickets, obama/biden, obama/biden, biden/harris, and now the fourth, this re-elect. and he's done debates in forums as a senator. you've seen the photos. here's a bit more of his track record over the years. >> the system does produce corruption. i think implicit in the system is corruption. >> under the reagan administration, we're leading our children with close to a $3 trillion debt. when we talk about statistics, we're really talking about the people. we are the world's last best hope. if our economy fades, will japan take over the protection of the

free world? will our european allies do that? the answer is clearly no. we must suc succeed not only fo ourselves but for the world. >> their ideas are old and bad and eliminate medicare. it's never been done before. >> it's been done a couple times. jack kennedy increased growth. >> oh, now you're jack kennedy? >> republicans or democrats? >> there it is. with the grin to boot. when you talk about getting up on that debate stage, it's one of those things that might look like people talking or arguing or going back and forth. and if you just pick a moment here and there, you might think how you could do it better. if you get up there and face the withering scrutiny and stand up the lights and feel everybody's reactions, it's a little bit different. we've heard that from people who prep from these things, campaign chiefs that work for campaigns and candidates, and sometimes from the people at the very top, which is usually only a handful each primary and only a two each

general. we begin our special coverage tonight with someone who's done exactly that, former republican governor of ohio, john kasich. he ran for president and stood on the stage against trump. we have some of that coming up in a minute. welcome. your thoughts looking at joe biden over the years you see there. does experience help? >> well, there's no question, ari, because when you get into this, it's a question of getting comfortable. and the more you do it, the more comfortable you become. you know, when you're standing there for the first time or the second time, you don't quite know where the camera is. what you don't want to do is you want to step on what you're saying by finishing -- in this case, there won't be an audience. when you get applause, you don't want to step on your lines so you interrupt the applause. there's so many things. but it's basically -- and you know this from television. you know this from sports. the more you can be yourself, the more you can relax, the more you can relax your body, your throat, your arms, the better you're going to do because you

begin to somewhat free wheel. and that's what experience gives you. it gives you the opportunity to become more comfortable, which is what is so important to project to the people that are watching any sort of debate or any type of presentation. >> yeah. that makes sense. we just looked at some classic joe. we're going to look at some classic kasich and trump because you guys did face off. we'll remind folks. let's take a look at 2016. >> come on, folks. we all know you can't pick them up and ship them across -- back across the border. it's a silly argument. it's not an adult argument. it makes no sense. >> all i can say is you're lucky in ohio that you struck oil. that's the one thing. >> we cannot elect somebody that doesn't know how to do the job. you've got to -- >> he was such a nice guy, and he said, oh, i'm never going to attack. but then his poll numbers tanked. that's why he's on the end. and he got nasty.

>> donald trump is hitting a nerve in this country. and for people that want to just tune him out, they're making a mistake. and little, false little things, sir, they really don't work when it comes to the truth. so, the fact is all i'm suggesting, we can't ship 11 million people out of this country. children would be terrified and it will not work. >> mr. trump, you've had a good -- let me just -- >> -- unbelievable company worth billions and billions of dollars. i don't have to hear from this man. believe me. i don't have to hear from him. >> brings it all back. primaries are different than the general, of course. >> that proves it, ari. >> what did it prove? >> that looked pretty good. >> you feel good about it. let's be clear, and i say this respectfully, at that time in that republican primary, he got the better of the other candidates, including you. and we saw both of your strategies there. sometimes it looked like you rhetorically were trying to say, hey, if you're considering him, if you're trump curious, i could

still be your guy, right? which is a certain strategy. at other times, you went right at his credibility. in some ways, that's what biden has to do tomorrow, right? this is a close race, possibly. we don't know yet, it's many months out. if it's a close race in some of these swing states it's because people are looking at these guys and they haven't all sided with biden. what did you learn from that that's relevant to tomorrow? >> i think you have to do your own thing. i went on the debate stage always trying to figure out what i wanted to achieve, what i wanted to communicate. for joe biden tomorrow, ari, i mean, seriously, he's got to show people that what they say about him behind closed doors in the situation room where he's handling the issues in gaza, where he's dealing with ukraine, when they say that he's really on top of things, that he's strong, he has to prove that in that debate tomorrow. we has to show people that he's not -- he may be elderly, but that he's not fragile, that he's

a senior statesman and not just an elderly, old guy. that's what people wonder about. if he can achieve that, in my opinion -- look at the -- >> let me show you down. i'm going to bring down -- i've got a bit of business to do. we've got margaret carlson joining. welcome, margaret, from "the washington monthly." >> hello ari. hello governor. one of the great debaters of all time. >> i wanted to pin down the point you're making. they're both elderly. they're both above retirement age or however you want to objectively put it. you, governor, thought biden was the better choice last time, right? >> yes. >> i want to be clear, what you're discussing is from a view that thinks biden is better than trump. you don't think it's propaganda about the age. how does he conquer that tomorrow? >> there was an article that said he should take a page out of betty white who never got old, even though she aged. it's a matter of having a little

bit of humor. it's about being sharp. it's about making your point and, by the way, not taking the bait, to be distracted by something donald trump's going to say. run your program. show people what you're about. and one other thing, let people know that the economy wasn't so great under donald trump. everybody says, oh, it was so much better. then tell the truth about that and about how trump blocked the border reform that people want. those are two big things. and finally, violent crime and a low -- i mean, it's, like, what, 30 years since we've had violent crime this low. talk about those things, but don't take the bait. don't take the bait. >> it's interesting coming from you. you mentioned betty white. i think joe biden would say to you, governor, thank you for being a friend. it's a "golden girls" reference, margaret, because you're in ohio and you were a longtime conservative, centrist, depending who you ask. and here you are making those arguments for joe biden. it's interesting, margaret, that

joe biden does have friends like john kasich. because in ohio and in the midwest and even parts of michigan, georgia, that's where the conversation is. it's not far right or far left. it's, sort of, more middle. your thoughts on all the above, margaret? >> yeah. it's very ohio. it's very harrisburg, pennsylvania, which is where i'm from. and ari, the news tonight is that you watch "the golden girls,"? really? you know the theme song. >> "three's company," too. yeah. >> wow. okay. so, if biden could pick state of the union biden and mix it with scranton biden, he'd be about in the right space for the debate. it's so hard to be yourself in a debate after you've been grilled for a week and you have people sitting around the room criticizing you. and then you go on. i think that's very hard. trump not practicing -- actually trump needs to practice being normal.

but he's not hampered by a lot of facts in his head. you know, those can slow you down. biden has the facts and john is so right. he can bring up immigration and what he tried to do and what republicans refused to do. he can bring up the economy. this guy over here, $8 trillion in debt he left us with. look what i've done. and crime is way down, even though you know that trump is going to fit in those immigrants who have committed crimes. that's what he's itching to do. but also, you know, the other thing that trump will do -- we can check on this tomorrow or the next day -- he's going to bound on to the stage and go over and give a big handshake because he's the more vigorous guy. he is from wrestlemania. and then i think, you know, biden knows how to respond to that. but biden has to be briefed on the body language because trump's body language is better than biden's body language.

>> interesting. what i want to do is keep you both. margaret's joined. i have something i have got to show you, which is donald trump reportedly conceding why he thinks he didn't do so well against biden last time. very different in private than in public. we'll get into that when we're back in 90 seconds. t when we're back in 90 seconds introducing, ned's plaque psoriasis. ned, ned, who are you wearing? he thinks his flaky red patches are all people see. otezla is the #1 prescribed pill to treat plaque psoriasis. ned? otezla can help you get clearer skin, and reduce itching and flaking. with no routine blood tests required. doctors have been prescribing otezla for over a decade. otezla is also approved to treat psoriatic arthritis. don't use otezla if you're allergic to it. serious allergic reactions can happen. otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. some people taking otezla had depression, suicidal thoughts, or weight loss.

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political purposes my opponents' youth and inexperience. >> while reagan scored that line to charm away his age question, reagan actually said that in his debate with walter mondale. governor kasich, margaret carlson are back with us. welcome back. margaret, there is this reporting that trump believes that he actually could have done better last time. he knows in private that he lost the debate to biden. he lost the election to biden. it was an error when the bulwark reports he had a meltdown during the first debate, that they went too aggressive. and remember something that kind of worked during the primary didn't work against biden. >> this little guy lied so much. >> we can't lock ourselves up in a basement like joe does. >> nasty guy. >> i never attacked him on his look, and believe me, there's plenty of subject matter right

there. >> i've given my answer, lying ted. >> he defrauded -- >> called me a weak person being president of the united states, okay? that's what we'd get if it were joe. >> you're a basket case. >> he doesn't want to say law and order because he can't because he'll lose his radical supporters. >> this guy's choke artist and this guy's a liar. >> i'm not going to answer the question. >> why wouldn't you answer that question? >> the question is radical left -- >> will you shut up, man? >> margaret, the insult debate artist did run out of steam in 2020 to the point that it's now being discussed. your view of that aspect tomorrow, which will be different, less interruptions, take turns. but during your own time, you can hurl those insults if you want. what do you think? >> he's the jackie mason of debates, trump. he just had hurled one right after another, and hay had an element of truth to them.

so, they -- they have that effect. but overall, trump has no monitor. he doesn't know when he's going too far. so, he's got a huge break this time. many of those segments we just saw won't take place because his mic won't be on. he can't overtalk. he can't interrupt. when marco rubio's trying to get back in and trump's overstepping his bounds, it's just not going to happen. i think that's what made him lose the first debate. he overtalked. he interrupted. he just came off as an awful, awful bully. and now the debate monitors have taken that out of the equation. >> yeah. governor, we have one more big piece here because, again, we don't usually see this. they only did it once. tomorrow is the next time we'll see it. this is the last bit look at the 2020 debate. >> i'm not here to call out his

lies. everybody knows he's a liar. >> mr. president, can you let him finish, sir? >> he doesn't know how to do that. >> he is not for any help for people needing health care. the point is that the president also is opposed to roe v. wade. that's on the ballot as well in the court. >> why is it on the ballot? >> because you said -- >> it's not on the ballot. >> it's on the ballot in the court. >> i don't think so. there's nothing happening there. >> my son, like a lot of people, like a lot of people we know at home, had a drug problem. he's overtaken it. he's fixed it. he's worked on it. and i'm proud of him. i'll support the outcome, and i'll be a president not just for the democrats. i'll be a president for democrats and republicans. and this guy -- >> i want to -- >> gentlemen, we're going to move on to the second segment. >> that was really a productive segment, wasn't it? >> governor? >> well, i thought biden there

looked very good. he can be that strong again. i think that margaret said it exactly right. i mean, it's a combination of scranton joe and -- i love that -- and what he did in the state of the union. for donald trump, trump needs to realize what's critical to him, particularly in his battleground states, are those independent voters and those republicans who are, sort of, on the fence. the insults may carry with your base, but his problem is beyond the base. he needs to figure out how to get those suburban women interested. and insults don't work. so, to me, he needs less bombast. he needs to appear more presidential. and joe biden has got to not take the bait and project in a very good way. >> yeah. >> i hope biden had some good counselors because frankly the biden administration has been too insular. they haven't listened to people on the outside. and i don't know who's talking to him. i hope he heard a little divergence of opinion, reviewed the tape, and let's get it on, see what happens. >> yeah. all very interesting, as we

round out this conversation. you made a point earlier that i think resonated, not only, governor, perhaps with the biden team, with myself, with margaret carlson, but with people around this great nation. and i want to say we've pulled the photos. you said to the basic effect that the golden girls could be -- betty white could be the spirit animal for joe biden because they're wonderful and betty white is timeless. >> she was 90 going on, like, 65 or 70. >> and there she is. >> margaret, we're over on time, but if you have a line or a haiku about betty white, you can close us out. >> i don't have it about betty, but john kasich, you're doing pretty well. you're, like, 60. that could be an insult, but i actually kind of know how old you are, so you're doing really well. >> i'm going to send you roses for not having to reveal an age.

and you know what? it is changing. that's the great thing about where we are today in the country. you don't have to be -- it's not about a number. it's about an attitude. and that's what biden needs to know. and that's what trump needs to know. >> on that note, shoutout betty white, our thanks to the governor and margaret. i'll see you both soon. we'll check in after the debate. there's more heat on steve bannon. he heads to prison monday. as we deal with the season of lies, some republicans want lying to be a litmus test to be a leader in that party. but coming up next, we just showed you john kasich. we have barack obama's winning campaign manager live next. ng campaign manager live next

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5-year price lock guarantee. powering 5 years of savings. powering possibilities. mr. president, you look at your pension? >> i don't look at my pension. it's not as big as yours, so it doesn't take as long. >> snap. that's barack obama knowing how to debate. we are joined by his 2008

campaign manager, host of the campaign managers podcast and one of the most sought after democratic strategists in the country. thanks for being here. >> great to be with you. >> we just over the course of this hour have looked at classic biden, classic trump. trump saying, maybe he didn't do so well in this one debate against biden. and there you see how obama could flip it in a moment. what are you watching for tomorrow? >> i think the biggest thing in the race right now is what would change it? i think trump has a small but important lead, similar to '12 in a way, similar to running against romney. there's a bunch of swing voters out there who aren't sure will biden have it. is he too old? if he can deliver a strong performance tomorrow, that will go a long way. if you look at the battleground states, most of them have senate races. if biden has a good night, some of those people are voting democrat. it's a huge moment. it's the most important 90 minutes of the rest of the

campaign for sure. >> that's striking. you got obama elected, along with him and a couple other people. david axelrod was part of your victory team as well. he's saying, quote, the rust factor is real. neither of these guys is accustomed to having someone a few feet away grilling them with no deference. and you'll see there the two are together -- like the president and the challenger. you have also aged, david. you see the photo? >> yes. happens to all of us. >> it's been a theme tonight. me too. i got gray. so, rust factor. the point there is joe biden is in this bubble of power and donald trump, although he's been in and out of courtrooms and maybe been dusted up, hasn't debated because he skipped the primary. do we get a firsthand 50 minutes. >> i think they're going to get right into it. i don't know how precise they'll be. one of the strengths of a good

debater is they're precise. you know, they set things up. donald trump, you said this in the first debate in 2020 about whatever. then this happened. like, it has to be precise. it's got to be memorable. it's got to be digestible. but, listen, history -- the only incumbent president who didn't bomb their first debate was bill clinton. all the rest of them bombed it. when we were preparing barack obama in 2012, we told him that. he watched all the debates. we said, this is going to happen to you. we didn't prepare him particularly well. he didn't perform well. they're not used to being challenged like that. and most incumbents go down the rabbit hole of defending their record. that's not what this is about. it's about making a case against donald trump. >> that's emotional? >> yeah. it's part of their record. >> like any person, we think they're politicians. but they're human beings, so they feel a desire to say, no, no, that's not what happened with the border. so, you're saying what?

>> let's say a team practiced perfectly, a candidate practiced perfectly, you have your plays you're going to call. they're almost scripted. you get out there. number one, incumbent presidents, they're running for re-election. they're busy with policy, with global issues. so, they are not in this mode. now, trump's fascinating because he was president. so, his record's going to be on trial too. does he go down that rabbit hole? and he of course never likes being challenged. i think david's right. this is going to be fascinating to see. when it looks like somebody is getting taken off their game, how quickly can they remind themselves, i've got to bring it back to message and what i want to talk about. >> super interesting. you're here for part of our special debate coverage. you've agreed to come back by the end of the hour. so, we're going to see more of you for something special about being a diplomat by the end of the hour.

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donald trump is a felon and

his second white house aide now will be headed to prison. the biden doj has objected to steve bannon's effort to avoid what is now a prison sentence coming for next week. he told a trump aide he must report, as scheduled, monday, july 1st. the doj asked the high court to give bannon the same treatment. accountability does have impacts. take a fairly conservative outlet, news max, which had donald trump on live. but given this civil and sometimes criminal accountability for lies and crimes that relate to stealing elections, they went out of their way during the interview, knowing trump would see it, to put on screen the correction to donald trump's coup lies. >> if we don't win this election november 5th -- if we don't win this election -- we won't have a country left. we're not going to have a country. and you know that better than

anybody. we are laughed at. they think we're fools. they can't believe that biden is the president. and we're going to turn that around. we're going to turn it around very fast. >> that is what it looks like when your guest is spewing things that are so unlawful, cost fox hundreds in millions in defamation, that they had something ready. you could tell. we work in tv. we know how it works. news max, unlike this guest, accepts the truth, the reality, the fact -- news max accepts the 2020 election results as legal and final, unlike the person lying about them on your screen. and that comes amidst a lot of january 6th convicts' losses. there were 11 candidates who ran for office in the republican party. seven have lost their primary. they were running basically on those lies and their own criminal conduct. so, you take it all together and you have accountability in courts. we've been covering that for some time.

but what happens in court doesn't just stay in court. it affects even the type of outlets that want to promote donald trump and hand a job or a role to his former campaign manager and give trump an interview. even those folks look around at the legal accountability and the fines and say hey, hey, we're not with the liar. we understand donald trump lost the 2020 election. no bar. but on that story, news max met that bar. now, up next, joe biden looking through what obama has done in figuring out ways to deal with past american legal targeting of gay americans. important story next. cans important story next ♪ i am, said i ♪ ♪ and i am lost and i can't ♪ punch buggy red. ♪ even say why ♪ ♪ i am, i said ♪

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biden is now pardoning about 2,000 veterans who were convicted and expelled from the military from a truman era law, which basically criminalized being gay and having same sex relations while they were serving. this is not a technical matter for the people affected. they lost their benefits after serving their country because politicians back in the day said, you're not allowed to be gay and serve america. it is recognition as well. it helps deal with this wider stigma that still exists within our society. here's a soldier still speaking out after facing a two-year sentence in a military prison. >> i thought my military life was over. but in that moment, i thought my life was over. >> people who are hanging under the weight of something that is no longer valid should be made whole. >> and as for how the military and total justice system works,

well, this is an example of how an executive, in this case, the chief executive, has this pardon power to deal with things like this. we've heard about the abuse, misuse, or dangling of pardons. this would be an example of using pardons now to right past wrongs. and it is a theme for this president. biden has also pardoned some marijuana charges because we have seen states roll back those laws. but it's only the pardon power that can deal with the past convictions. a president, who so many have seen as an entrenched veteran of a certain kind of d.c. politics, showing a willingness right now to use the powers of his office on these issues. now, dave plouffe is here, and he returns with that special segment i told you about right after this. segment i told you at after this who knows what to expect! turn shipping to your advantage. keep it simple...with clear, upfront pricing. with usps ground advantage®. ♪♪ everybody wants super straight, super white teeth. they want that hollywood white smile.

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five years? -five years. introducing the comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. powering 5 years of savings. powering possibilities. diplomats are in the news a lot. united states top diplomat antony blinken announcing new ambassadors.

working for years on shuttle diplomacy to end russia's war against ukraine. honors colin powell, ben franklin and thomas jefferson for skill and communication. celebrated for using language and empathy to resolve conflicts. to say someone is diplomatic, they've mastered tact, rhetoric and strategy. we have a special edition of "fall back" with two 0 people skilled in tact. the legendary harlem hip-hop group, the diplomats. jim jones, our guest tonight, with the diplomatic david plouffe who managed the obama presidential campaign. jones has seven solo albums, collabs with many. ♪ today's a new day, got up in

the suitcase ♪ ♪ go uptown to harlem, tell them i sent you ♪ ♪ no lie, you notice, fallen lives outside ♪ >> recent projects include collab albums and new single, "too turnt," and david plouffe known for collabs with senator obama, tapped to be a senior adviser, known for work on strategy, messaging, organizing and working for a boss who believed in breaking barriers and celebrated music in the white house, beyonce, springsteen and right there. the presidential medal. we'll go to you. what's on the fallback list?

>> post debate instant polls. there will be a bunch tomorrow night. there are trash polls all over the landscape, these are at the top. we'll know within three or four days. everyone should make their own opinion how people did, but the people who decide the selection we'll learn how they decide the debate. some of these trash polls are not real, just on brietbart. >> i've had good and bad snap polls, what matters is the people who decide the election, what they think. >> jim, on your fallback list, look at a.i. projects stealing music. >> it's tricky right now. artists working so hard to put the original creativity out there as far as music, then we have technology has formed a

thing called a.i. now able to copy anybody's voice and make music, therefore stealing from our -- food off our plates. i don't think it's fair to the artists and we need to make this work. it's natural progression where technology is going, but how do we make it work for the artist, i feel like he's getting robbed. >> great point. some musicians and labels are suing groups. you're known for your voice among other things, and the technology is at a place it can basically simulate your voice but change it slightly and say we didn't -- if they stole a recording of you, would be out-of-bounds in the court. say we altered it different somehow, no, it's still the jim jones, the 50 cent voice. >> you have a sample on the record, playing it over, it's

still the sample, it's the same thing with using a artist's voice. people know who you be trying to emulate when you make that rap or song. how do we get compensated? >> and david, you know what we call that? >> what? >> biting someone's style. >> 100%. >> that's not cool. i'm not a really cool guy but i listen and study. >> in the hood. >> you can't bite someone's style. that's normal day-to-day. you bite someone's style commercially, you're taking food off the plate. >> more important fallback than the polls. >> you've been around the politicians, one issue goes from what jim is saying to fixing it, some of the politicians in congress are not learning about this, whether it's music or deep fakes we see in politics designed to defraud and confuse people. there's no a.i. laws we're

hearing about yet. >> we've seen members of congress have a hard time talking about social media, the internet. that's what we're dealing with. and this technology is innovating at warp speed, and it's going to hurt a heck of a lot of people. doesn't mean we should put up too many guardrails, want innovation to bloom. we're way behind the ball. but tomorrow night we'll see if it comes up. it should. >> tech and a.i. could come up? >> it should, if it doesn't, huge missed opportunity. >> seems like the government needs to be bring up on speed with a lot of issues that doesn't have to do with war, with social issues that impact society heavily, they always need to be brung up on speed in those things. >> they're really behind the curve. i have a fallback as well. we talked about cultural, what it means to people.

in its best case, music, culture, i learned about harlem in hip-hop before i went there. mtv, one of the big ways people learned about music and culture, it's dark online, the company that owned it care so little they pulled everything down, old articles and material. i think that's a real loss for the culture. my fallback is to these companies buying for money and not respecting the archive there. >> that's a big loss for the music industry as a whole. they didn't just play rap music but everything. to lose that archive sounds crazy. >> yeah. >> that's a lot of history there. a lot of historic groups, big artists, the biggest of the biggest. red hot chili peppers, michael jackson, on and on. >> everybody. >> that's wild. >> what did you put on?

hot 97, 106 and park? mtv? >> mtv was one of the first video channels with any music. when the cable channels had the clicker. very interesting. life at an early age. we were diverse when we were younger, listened to all music coming up, not just what we get. everything on mtv, rock and roll songs, it was a thing. to know it's going dark and archives are not there for this generation or the generation to come, not be able to tap into history of music is crazy. >> i have a minute left. david? >> 14, 15 blocks from madison square garden, but i'm a sixers fan, would like the knicks to fall back and stop recreating the villanova team. mikal bridges now, a pick we traded, it's awful. and knicks are hard to hate.

good team, good guys, played college ball in philly. it's driving me crazy. >> the knicks did extremely well this year and took us to places we haven't been in a long time. new york pride with the knicks. hope next year we go further. >> as long as it's not the celtics, we can agree on that? >> go knicks, not going to get into that. >> not getting into that. you always look fly. >> thank you. >> comes with the turf. but before i let you go, anything you want to tell us about what is sparkling there? >> this is a diplomat shirt gifted to me by a designer from japan, name was mike. get obama one of those, too. david has his number. jim jones, david plouffe, thanks