but it's only for a limited time. five years? -five years. introducing the comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. powering 5 years of savings. powering possibilities. he made up the suckers and losers, so he should apologize to me right now. >> the idea that i have to apologize to you for anything

along loo lines, we've done more for veterans than any president in american history. >> his son is convicted felon at a very high level. >> the only person on this stage a convicted felon is the man i'm looking at right now. >> i will have that war settled between putin and zelenskyy as president-elect before i take office on january 20th. i'll have that war settled. >> this guy's three years younger and a lot less competent. i think just look at the record, look what i've done, look how i've turned around the horrible situation he left me. good morning and welcome to "way too early" on this friday, june 28th. i'm jonathan lemire, and i'm live in atlanta following last night's presidential debate. and it was an historic night featuring a current president and a former president going head to head for 90 minutes. with polls showing the race to be incredibly close, the stakes

were high for both men. but let's be clear, the debate was particularly rough for president biden. concerns about his age, undeniably his biggest weakness according to polls, were on full display as he struggled through some of his responses. his voice was thin and raspy, and his campaign blamed his hoarseness on a cold he'd contracted during debate prep at camp david. his answers often meandering, he often would lose his train of thought. it comes as no surprise donald trump his performance included his usual stream of grievances along with many, many false and misleading claims, which went unchecked by moderators. on multiple occasions last night trump called biden the worst president in u.s. history. biden hit back by pointing to a poll of historians that was conducted earlier this year. >> it's ridiculous. we have a debate.

we're trying to justify his presidency. his presidency -- he's without question the worst president in the history of our country. we shouldn't be having a debate about it. there's nothing to debate. >> the worst president in history? 159 presidential scholars voted him as the worst president in the history of the united states of america. >> this shouldn't be a debate. he's the worst president. he just said about me because i said it. but, look, he's the worst president in the history of our country. he's destroyed our country. if he wins this election, our country doesn't have a chance, not even a chance of coming out of this rut. we probably won't have a country left anymore. that's how bad it is. he is the worst in history by far. >> thank you, president trump. president biden? >> we are the most admired country in the world. we're the united states of america. there's nothing beyond our capacity. we have the finest military in the history of the world, the finest in the history of the world. no one thinks we're weak. no one wants to screw around with us, nobody, number one.

number two, the idea that we're talking about worse presidents, i wasn't joking. look it up or go online. 159 or 158, i don't know the exact number, presidential historians they had meetings and they voted who's the worst president in american history going from best to worst. they said he was the worst in all of american history. that's a fact. that's not conjecture. he can argue they're wrong, but that's what they voted. >> trump was also asked twice last night to respond to those who blame him for the january 6th capitol insurrection, and in both answers he took zero responsibility. >> after you rallied your supporters that day some of them stormed the capitol to stop the constitutionally mandated counting of electoral votes. as president you swore an oath to, quote, preserve, protect, and defend, unquote, the constitution. what do you say to voters who believe you violated that oath through your actions and

inaction on january 6th and worry that you'll do it again? >> i don't know too many believe that. and let me tell you about january 6th. on january 6th we had a great border, nobody coming through, very few. on january 6th we were energy independent. on january 6th we had the lowest taxes ever. >> you have 80 seconds left. my question was what do you say to those voters who believe that you violated your constitutional oath through your actions and inaction on january 6th, 2021, and worry you'll do it again? >> well, i didn't say that to anybody. i said peacefully and patriotically, and nancy pelosi if you just watched the news from two days ago on tape to her daughter who's a documentary filmmaker they say, but she's saying, oh, no, it's my responsibility, i was responsible for this. because i offered her 10,000 soldiers or national guard, and she turned them down. i had virtually nothing to do. they asked me to go make a speech. >> look, he encouraged those

folks. >> what they've done to some people so innocent, you should be ashamed. you've destroyed the lives of so many people. >> president biden also called into question donald trump's character last night as it relates to multiple criminal and civil cases against him. here is that exchange. >> the crimes you are still charged with and think of all the civil penalties. how many billions of dollars do you own in civil penalties for molesting a woman in public, for doing a whole range of things, of having sex with a porn star while your wife was pregnant. i mean what are you talking about? >> i didn't have sex with a porn star, number one. number two, that was a case that was started and moved. they moved a high ranking official, the doj into the manhattan d.a.'s office to start that case. that case is going to be appealed and won. we had a very terrible judge, a

horrible judge, democrat. the prosecutor, all high ranking democrats, appointed people. hundreds of millions of dollars came pouring in because the public knows it's a scam, and it's a guy that's after his political opponent because he can't win fair and square. >> it seems sort of unconscionable it took more than a half hour into last night emphasis debate for there to be any discussion about the 2020 election, january 6th, or trump's criminal conviction. president biden also missed opportunities to drive those points home throughout the evening. joining us now reporter for bloomberg news. we really appreciate you being up this early after a late night for us all. there is certainly, look, as the night went on, president biden improved. he certainly landed some points, and as noted donald trump lied throughout. i don't think this was a good night for donald trump, but there's no way to spin this. it was a pretty disastrous night for president biden. >> and one from the get go. he walked out of the stage president biden did sounding

hoarse, being kind of meek. and you noticed through the course of the debate there were things president trump wanted to say and he was able to do that effectively. i think the bar was set very low for president biden, so much so he was being ridiculed by both sides and of course he wanted to clear that bar. and he didn't. he has wandering eyes, and yes, there was a lot of lying. there was a lot of looseness with the truth on the former president's part but he was effective in getting four or five things across over and over again. perhaps it was the format of the debate. go back to talk about the border, the creative way in which he spun january 6th is astonishing, yet as you said president biden missed his opportunities to underline that moment is being wrong, i thought abortion was another moment he did that as well. we had former president trump coming out and saying he was in favor of carving out exemptions for certain abortions that we saw with the supreme court decision like we saw this week.

president biden in the past has painted donald trump as having risky policies when it comes to abortion rights. he didn't do that effectively last night. >> the number one goal for biden last night they had to get accomplished and did it effectively was to prove to americans i'm so up for us, my age is just a number, i can do it. last night he didn't. we saw it immediately. his surrogates tried to spin it and his campaign shifted. they talked about how he had a cold. they were pushing and calling leading democrats trying to get them to, hey, don't panic on-air. but let's be clear, privately there was nothing but panic last night. and there's even some discussion that amongst some leading democrats about can our nominee this year not be president biden? >> i think there's conversation about sort of the political irresponsibility surrounding president biden going into this debate. i'll pull back the curtain a little bit. we were in the spin room last night, this debate ended, we all

went onto the floor of the hall. president biden's surrogates came in force. people were coming down from every entrance of this arena. it took 10, 15 mines we saw any democrats come out. there was gavin newsom, rafael warnock coming down. it didn't have the same feel, i you can get a sense the vacuum emerged they were going to coalesce around whatever message as a result of this. but i'm not sure what that message is going to be going forward. >> and the trajectory of the race now is going to be shaped by questions of biden's fitness and democratic panic, which is going to be troublesome for the re-election effort. we'll hear president biden has a rally in north carolina. a lot of eyes will be on that. david, thank you for starting us off this morning. still ahead on "way too early" we'll have much, much more from last night emphasis debate including what president biden and former president trump had to say about israel as well as their back and forth about

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welcome back. we are live here in atlanta. the war in gaza and rising tensions in the middle east was a topic of discussion during last night's presidential debate. donald trump appeared to dodge some of the questions by repeatedly bringing up nato instead. biden noted that trump tried to undermine nato while he say president, and he also touted the latest cease-fire proposal and defended his decision to with hold some bombs from israel. >> everyone from the united nations security council straight through the g7 to the israelis and netanyahu himself have endorsed the plan i put forward -- endorsed the plan i put forward. in the meantime what's happened?

in israel -- the only thing i've denied israel was 2,000-pound bombs. they don't very well in populated areas. they kill a lot of people. we provide israel all the weapons they need and when they need them. by the way, they've greatly weakened hamas. greatly weakened and they should be. they should be eliminated. but you've got to be careful using certain weapons among population centers. >> he said the only one who wants to keep going is hamas. actually israel is the one, and you should let them go and let them finish the job. he doesn't want to do it. he's become like a palestinian, but they don't like him because he's a very bad palestinian. he's a weak one. >> president trump, just to follow up would you support the creation of an independent palestinian state in order to achieve peace in the region? >> i'd have to see. but before we do that, the problem we have is that we spend all the money. so they kill us on trade. i've made great trade deals with the european nations. the only reason that he can play games with nato is because i got

them to put up hundreds of billions of dollars. i said -- and he's right about this, i said, no, i'm not going to support nato if you don't pay. >> not much fact checking done last night, but we can certainly tell you very little of that was true. trump also accused president biden of not caring about the military, claiming that he had done more for veterans than any president in history. >> our veterans are on the street. they're dying because he doesn't care about our veterans. he doesn't like the military at all, and he doesn't care about our veterans. nobody's been worse. i had the highest approval rating for veterans, taking care of the v.a. he's the worst. he's gotten rid of all the things i've approved. all the different things i approved, they abandoned. >> every single thing he said is a lie, every single one. for example, veterans are a hell of a lot better off since i passed the pact act. 1 million of them now have

insurance and their families have it. their families have it because what happened whether it was agent orange or burn pits, they've all been covered now. we're also in a situation where we have great respect for veterans. my son spent a year in iraq next to one of those burn pits, came back with stage 4 gleoblastoma. i was in france for d-day and spoke to all those families who had war heroes that died. and he said i don't want to go in there because they're a bunch of losers and suckers. my son was not a loser. you're the sucker and you're the loser. >> that was one of biden's strongest moments last night, and he was referring to a 2020 piece in "the atlantic," which revealed back in 2018 a then-president trump canceled a visit to a cemetery in france where fallen american soldiers

are buried calling them suckers and losers. trump tried to claim the quote was fake. >> first of all, that was a made up quote suckers and losers. they made it up. it's failing like many of these magazines. he made it up. he put it in commercials. we notified him. we had 19 people that said i didn't say it. and think of this who would say i'm at a cemetery and i'm talking about our veterans, because nobody's taking better care. i'm so glad this came up and he brought it up. there's nobody that's taken better care of our soldiers than i have. to think that i would in front of generals and others say suckers and losers. we have 19 people that said it was never said by me. it was made up by him just like russia, russia, russia was made up. just like the 51 intelligence agents are made up, just like the new thing with the 16 economists are talking. it's the same thing. 51 intelligence agents said that the laptop was russia disinformation. it wasn't. that came from his son hunter.

it wasn't russia disinformation. he made up the suckers and losers, so he should apologize to me right now. >> a four star general on your side, on your staff who said you said it, period. >> so that four-star general biden just mentioned was trump's former chief of staff, john kelly, who confirmed on the record that quote in 2023. in a statement to cnn's jake tapper. tapper moderated last night's debate but, again, offered no fact check of that exchange or really any other. coming up here we'll continue to have complete coverage of the debate in atlanta. donald trump has yet to announce his vp pick, but he teased they were here last night. so we'll tell you which of his cop contenders were spotted at the debate, and if there are any clues one of them will be his running mate. we'll be right back with that. running mate we'll be right back with that. so this is pickleball? it's basically tennis for babies, but for adults. it should be called wiffle tennis. pickle! yeah, aw!

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welcome back to atlanta. ahead of last night's debate here, republican congresswoman elise stefanik posted this photo on social media showing several of donald trump's vice presidential contenders including senators tim scott, j.d. vance, and marco rubio. notably missing from that picture, however, is north dakota governor doug burgum who is perceived as another potential vp pick. now, burgum was seen in the spin room last night following the debate. he was here in atlanta. trump teased the idea this week his future running mate would be in attendance last night, but he has yet to make any formal announcement who will it be or when. there's been some speculation if trump had a bad night he might accelerate and push up that vp announcement. now there's some chatter he may wait until closer to the republican national convention. time now for the weather and let's go up to 30 rock and meteorologist angie lassman for the forecast. angie, yesterday we were able to do our show from the

air-conditioned student center, basketball gym on the campus of georgia tech. today we're outside. i can tell you even at this hour it's hot and humid here in atlanta. >> that's not going to change, jonathan, the next couple of days. we'll keep the heat going for especially for the southern tier of the country and keep the rain going for upper midwest, which has been problematic given all the flooding concerns. that's something we watch through the hours today. and notice the rain centered across the upper midwest, minneapolis, kansas city waking up to wet weather this morning. and the potential for strong storms get into play here as we get into the afternoon hours. 9 million people included in this. omaha, kansas city, des moines, some of the major cities there. we're mostly concerned by the strong wind gusts 75 miles per hour or higher but maybe a tornado or hail still possible. notice where you see all the bright pink dots, that's the major flooding. we're still concerned about the swollen rivers, the difficulty folks are having getting back into their homes. and unfortunately with more rain on the way, we know that doesn't

help the situation. but the good news is most of heaviest rain we're expecting, those higher accumulation amounts is going to be where the worst of the flooding is. you can see kansas city picking up an inch, maybe a half of inch of rain over the next couple of days. i know it's june and we're in hurricane season, but it is quite active for hurricane season. specifically we're going to keep an eye on this tropical disturbance, 95l. we're going to see it work its way west, tropical depression over the next day or so, but we will monitor for potential impacts for folks in the caribbean and specifically the western an tilles. >> angie lassman, thank you. have a good weekend. next up here on "way too early," we of course will have much more from last night's presidential debate including the candidates views on abortion and whether that issue should be left up to the states to decide. we'll play you remarks from both men when we come right back. reh men when we come right back.

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welcome back to "way too early." it's a little before 5:30 a.m. here on the east coast, 2:30 out west on this friday morning. i'm jonathan lemire live in atlanta. thanks for being with us. trump and biden last night clashed over abortion on the debate stage. the former president took credit for overturning roe v. wade while the current president insisted politicians should simply not be in control of a

woman's health. take a listen. >> 51 years ago you had roe v. wade and everyone wanted to get it back to the states, everybody without exception, democrats, republicans, liberals, conservatives. what i did is i put three supreme court justice on the court and they happened to vote in favor of killing roe v. wade and moving it back to the states. this is something everybody wanted. >> the fact is a vast majority of constitutional scholars supported roe when it was decided, supported roe. this idea they were all against it is ridiculous. and this is a guy who said states should be able to have-touch. we're in a state where in six weeks you don't know whether you're pregnant or not, but you cannot see a doctor and have him decide on what your circumstances are and whether you need help. the idea states are able to do this is a little like saying we're going to turn civil rights

back to the state, let each state have a different rule. >> he's willing to as we say rip the baby out of the womb in the ninth month and kill the baby. nobody wants that to happen, democrat or republican. nobody wants it to happen. >> you're lying. that is simply not true. roe v. wade does not provide for that. that's not the circumstance. only when a woman's life is in danger and she's going to die, that's the only circumstance where that can happen. but we are not for late-term abortion, period. period, period. >> another example of lies there from the former president. and while there was no fact checking offered by the moderators, that was a moment where president biden effectively did so. joining us now former white house director of communications to president obama, our friend jennifer palmieri. good morning, jen. so let's first focus on the abortion issue, and then we'll get your bigger picture thoughts. that moment right there a good one for president biden, but there were others where he had opportunities to really talk about abortion and didn't,

seemed like he missed chances to really hammer donald trump for what he did in terms of the supreme court appointees that led to the overturn of roe. but let's get your assessment here. we know abortion is one of the defining issues this november. it's been undefeated at the ballot box since dobbs. how did you think it played last night? >> if she had been talking about what happened in georgia with the six-week abortion ban, he would have called it a trump abortion ban, which is what the vice president calls it. that is what the states have done. if they've enacted an abortion ban, it is a trump abortion ban. i was surprised that trump went ahead with the crazy notion that everyone on the left and right wanted roe v. wade to be overturned. it's ridiculous. i think he might temper that. the president might not have done as well as he should to push back, but trump didn't push

on that issue. there's nothing the fundamental of that issue that has changed last night. >> you're about as plugged in as any democrat out there. let's get first your thoughts on how last night went because as i'm sure your phone was blowing up, reactions i was getting from democrats, staffers, elected officials alike, leading democrats frankly it was pure panic as to how last night went. you know, biden certainly said it himself in the middle there, but he started poorly and ended in a weak fashion as well. >> so, you know, stepping back the president wanted this debate because i think they thought he could have a big night, and that would put aside a lot of concerns people had. and also he's the one running behind, give him a boost, right? that did not happen. that was a big missed

opportunity. it is not as if trump did anything to help himself or deal with any of the fundamental vulnerabilities he had in the election. i think i had expected the president to do better. i wanted him to do better. i know he could have done better, but i think the american people kind of saw what they expected to see, so i'm not sure that it's going to change anything in the race at this moment, but biden needed to have a night where he did well to change things in the race. so that is a problem. i got all the same panic text messages you got, jonathan. but at this point in the race there's not a lot, right? we can walk through the fundamentals of how the convention worked and all of that. i think and i'm in politics for a long time and i learned in the clinton white house nothing is as good or as bad as it seems when the moment happens. there's a lot of freaking out last night and you wake up today

and say, okay, this race is the same thing it always was. trump is the biggest threat. he remains a huge threat that he is, and the biden campaign is going to have to, you know, keep the stakes super high at what the kind of threat that he is and argue the race on that -- on the merits of that. and we can walk through the sort of the mechanics of where we are in the race and how the convention works and all of that to show there's unlikely to be a change here. and i think there's a real question whether or not that would be a good idea even if you could change something now. >> certainly the stakes are really high. the polls only going to move a couple of points, so that's likely the case here even though it was disappointing evening. very quick, jen, 30 second answer. do we think we're going to get a

second debate? because there's already some signals from trump's campaign things went so well, why bother in september? >> i think biden will push for one. i think trump probably thought this is great, biden not gaining any ground on me. it's not like he did so great. it's not worth giving biden the opportunity to do better, so he may not want it. but biden can push for it. you know, in the next four months he'll go out and make the arguments and the rest of the campaign apparatus they've always done about the threat trump is, and none of that has changed, and it's a disappointing night he didn't do better, he didn't make up ground. but i don't know it's changed a whole lot in the fundamentals of where the race is. >> it may not have. and to be clear, trump did not have a great night either. i guess one silver lining here for democrats is there is plenty of time to recover. we certainly appreciate your insight this morning, former white house director of communications to president obama, jennifer palmieri.

next up here we'll foe go live to cnbc. we'll take an early look what's driving the day on wall street as investors eye inflation data due out later this morning. big topic of discussion last night. "way too early" will be right back. night. "way too early" will be right back i know you love your dada. of course he loves you, he just doesn't show it on his face. or with his body language. [ cooing ] ♪ sweet child of mine ♪ pop! [ screams ] if you have chronic kidney disease you can reduce the risk of kidney failure with farxiga. because there are places you'd like to be. farxiga can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract, or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar.

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for twice as long as pepcid. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. welcome back. it's time now for business and for that let's bring in cnbc's arabile gumede who joins us live from london. good morning, arabile. the stock futures up this morning as traders look ahead to key inflation data that could influence the federal reserve's next move on interest rates. what should we expect? >> yeah, so the anticipation there is for a it.6 figure and still they'll continue to climb towards that 2% number, john. that's what the market is really looking towards here, and how might that determine the future rate of -- the future rate cutting path for the federal reserve, in fact? that's going to be a really

important number. of course the pce number, the personal consumption, expenditure index is the preferred inflation gauge. they prefer to use that instead of the cpi to determine the path down for inflation. and instead of the target range which is 2% gives the fed a clear understanding of where to from here when it comes to that inflation print, whether they would cut interest rates in the next meeting. the market still anticipating at least one cut in interest rates. whether there's more is still to be seen, of course. >> we will be following that as we go. so arabile, also the number of americans receiving unemployment benefits hit its highest level in more than two years. give us a sense as to why, and what does this say about the labor market? >> yeah, so it's actually weird data, and i'll correlate all of it for you here. this is actually the full sentiment, right? fewer people have now applied for unemployment benefits last week, but the entire total number of americans collecting

jobless benefits actually rose to the highest level in more than two years, so it does indicate some weakness in this labor market, but it's very nuanced in certain places and in certain areas, so this might still give the federal reserve enough of a sentiment change then to perhaps begin to cut interest rates at some stage. and they could say this data points in that direction. but whether it gives them the conviction, they might still say they would like more data pointing directly then towards those rate cuts, but there is still some weaknesses. they won't want to weaken this too much further. of course unemployment already at 4%. >> all right, cnbc's arabile gumede live from london, thank you as always. have a good weekend. next up here we're going to play for you more clips from last night's high stakes head to head debate here in atlanta including president biden's comments on inflation. plus democratic congresswoman debbie dingell of michigan will join the conversation with her take-aways from last night. "way too early" will be right

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welcome back to atlanta. as ewe continue our coverage of last night's debate, president biden's first question of the night centered around inflation and whether americans wallets are better off under him or former president trump. take a listen. >> look at what i left when i became president and what mr. trump left me. we had an economy that was in free fall, the pandemic was so badly handled, many people were dying. all he said was it's not that serious, just inject a little bleach into your arm, you'll be all right. the economy collapsed. there were no jobs, unemployment rate rose to 15%. it was terrible. we're in a situation where if you had to take a look all that was done in his administration, he didn't do much at all. by the time lee left, there were things in chaos, literally chaos. we put things back together and created those jobs, we made sure

we have a situation where now we brought down the price of prescription drugs, which is a major issue for many people. we work down to bring down the price around the kitchen table, and that's what we're going to get done. >> joining us now democratic congresswoman debbie dingell of michigan. good to see you this morning. let's start just simply, get your reaction to last night emphasis debate. how do you think president biden did? >> well, good morning, jonathan. it is way too early. let me say this, i'm not going to sugar coat it. it wasn't joe biden's best night, we all know that. and if i have one thing to say i'm going to say to the campaign officials they should have prepared us that he had a cold and he had a raspy voice. and, you know, as i've heard people talking last night about the senior voice, that was not the voice that i hear joe biden with all of the time. he had a cold, and that set a tone. having said that and having

admitted it, it wasn't the best night i've ever seen. i think it was donald trump's best night either. and i think he codified a lot of things that people in america are worried about starting with, again, taking credit for overturning roe v. wade. and i think there are a lot of women who do not believe that anybody should be making decisions about their bodies but themselves. he, again, on january 6th made it clear that he didn't think what happened was wrong. he didn't think that it was bad that policemen were attacked. he didn't think it was bad that people wanted to hang his own vice president, and he's still talking about pardoning people. and the third thing that he made very clear was that he's going to give his billionaire friends tax cuts and corporations and isn't going to fight for the middle class. so i was kind of surprised. i heard all the noise you did last night, but i also heard from some people that stunned me in saying he said things that

there were some people -- and i'm not going to tell you it was a lot, but i've heard from six or seven people who said what he said tonight reaffirming his position on a number of things is making me lean more towards biden than i was last week. >> so certainly to your point the campaign let it be known that the president had a cold. it took him about 45 minutes or so into the debate before they put that out. congresswoman, i need to ask you do you think president biden should remain at the top of the ticket? does he give democrats the best chance to win this november? >> you know, i'm not going to be part of this hand wringing and democrats love to hand wring. it's way too early, period, to see where we come from last night's debate. lots of presidential candidates have had bad debates. i think if you get through the raspy voice and some of the others, donald trump didn't have a great night either. he continued to lie. he reinforced the things people are the most worried about when they think about donald trump

being president. they reminded him about -- they reminded people about why they had concerns about his being a good president. let's see what joe biden does coming out of this, how strong is he on the road, how many places is he going to be. i'm betting we see the strong joe biden. so i -- look, i think we've got a tough election. you know i'm not someone that tells anybody things are okay when they're not. i am in a truly, truly purple state. i don't think we're going to know who's going to win michigan. it's election day. so i don't think joe biden had a great night. i don't think donald trump had a great night, though donald trump may think he had a great night. and i'd rather -- joe biden made it clear -- i mean donald trump made mean, donald trump made it clear on where he is on issues that really bother the american people. >> certainly the number of lies from trump last night, off the charts. lastly, congresswoman, and briefly, we came into this segment with a clip about the president talking about the economy and inflation. that's so important in your

state in michigan. do you think on that issue he hit the right notes last night? >> i think he touched the right notes. we all have to do a lot more to show what the comparison is. we are working to lower costs. joe biden is working to lower costs in many different ways, from price gouging, which is part of the problem at the grocery store. we have to understand that's a real issue, and we need to be talking about the economy and how we are going to deliver and are delivering from now until november. all donald trump wants to do is take care of his billionaire friends. >> we really appreciate you joining us early this morning after a late night. democratic congresswoman debbie dingell of michigan, thank you, as always. >> thank you. up next on "way too early," we'll show what president biden had to say about his performance after last night's debate. john heilemann will join me for that. on "morning joe," we'll have continuing coverage live from atlanta on the high-stakes matchup between donald trump and joe biden, including analysis from members of the biden campaign. plus, democratic governor

josh shapiro of pennsylvania will join the conversation. also ahead, supreme court releases more decisions in some high-profile cases, but none of them have to do with donald trump's immunity claim. a panel of legal experts will break down the latest rulings, their potential implications, and whether we get that important decision today. "morning joe" just a few moments away.

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mr. president, how'd you perform tonight? >> we did well. >> any concerns about the performance? >> hard to debate a liar. >> that was president biden speaking to reporters at a stop he made at waffle house after last night's debate. he said it was hard to debate a liar, meaning donald trump. joining us here live in atlanta, nbc news national affairs analyst john heilemann. he's also a partner and chief political columnist at puck. john, that's what president biden had to say after the debate last night. that's not what democrats were

saying. i saw you here at the site in the hours after the debate. it was a full-on panic from democrats, including some discussion about whether it'd be possible to replace joe biden atop the ticket. how real is this? >> well, look, good morning, jonathan. good to see you. >> good morning. >> i've seen my share of panics around presidential candidates. it was funny last night, someone raised the barack obama's performance, the debate in denver against mitt romney in 2012. the degree of panic right now in the democratic party, donors, officials, mayors, governors, senators, congress people, privately for the most, in some cases publicly, is off the charts. much higher than it was around barack obama in denver. they thought, oh, barack obama, he recovers in the second

debate, it'll be fine. that's not the state of things right now. the reality is that joe biden is the nominee. he's the de facto nominee right now. there's not a world where, you know, there's some delegation of democrats who can take -- no matter how much anybody might want it in the clear light of day today, 72 hours from now, they can't make joe biden relinquish the democratic nomination. the question is, is there something that would make joe biden relinquish the democratic nomination? i don't know what that would be. it would be more likely that it would be some sense that if the congressional delegations thought that keeping him atop the ticket would be a disaster for democrats in the house and senate, that that would be more persuasive with them than, say, some other counsel of elders coming to him, where his attitude would be, you thought i couldn't beat donald trump in 2020 either, and i did. but i think we are in uncharted territory here. i've been doing this 35 years. the degree of democratic panic

right now is higher than i've ever seen. >> i mean, just now, congresswoman debbie dingell, a staunch biden supporter, when i asked whether the president should remain atop the ticket, she punted. she didn't want to say one way or another. >> she's a realist in michigan. >> she's worried this time around. >> also loves joe biden. those are all true things about debbie. >> there was sadness from people last night who do love joe biden on the air talking about what happened last night. >> yes. >> the question now is, was that just a bad night? how much do these impressions linger? what went wrong last night? >> well, i think that, you know, i would say biden got better as the night went on, essentially. the biggest problem is the first impressions in the debates matters a lot. the truth is, for everyone, you come out and look, is he strong or not? think the last time we saw him, the state of the union. there was an incredibly intense -- after the report,

there was questions around democrats, hand wringing, bedwetting democrats worried about joe biden. he came out strong in the speech at the outset, and within ten minutes, everyone was like, we're fine. here, joe biden's worst moments were in the beginning of the debate. it was the peak of the panic. at that point, the fact he got better as the night went on did not do anything to assuage the panic. the panic was already in. there were bad moments in the early going. his voice was not strong. all these things that people will point to and say it's all atmospherics. the reality is, talking about the panic among democrats, it was the early part of it. i would say, you know, i had text messages last night from some of the richest, most supportive democratic donors in the country of joe biden, supportive his entire career, freaking out. that was the case with elected officials, too. >> not to say donald trump had a great night either. >> no!

>> biden remains atop the ticket. by far the most likely outcome here. >> that's correct. >> what happens next? like, this is a race that's been so frozen to this point. do we think last night changes things, or are we status quo and it's up for grabs come november? >> if you're in the biden world right now, what you're hoping for and what you're counting on is the fact that four, five days from now, the numbers have not moved very much. you can say, do your criticism all day long. we are still in the margin of error in every battleground state. i think they'll not expect to have a second debate from donald trump. that's not something anybody should expect to see. there are lots of moments over the course -- i've been saying all along, we're a long way to election day, and there's not that much available vote out there. there's still a lot to play for here. as long as the bottom deputy fall out in the next week, really fall out, he can keep going forward. they can continue to play. you know, we have months to go. >> right.