dave's company just scored the comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. high five! high five... -i'm on a call. it's 5 years of reliable, gig speed internet... five years of advanced security... five years of a great rate that won't change. yep, dave's feeling it. yes. but it's only for a limited time. five years? -five years. introducing the comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. powering 5 years of savings. powering possibilities. good day, i'm chris jansing live at msnbc headquarters in

new york city. today damage control. president biden tries to turn the page after having one of the worst nights ever his political life at the worst possible time. now with the president in north carolina, there you see the governor of that state roy cooper about to introduce the first lady. democrats all over the country are questioning whether joe biden can fix the damage. and if he can't, what then? the concern so widespread that by 10:00 this morning the biden campaign was responding that the president is not dropping out. but what does the fact that they even had to say that tell us? we'll ask one of the president's key allies, pete buttigieg, what he thinks should happen now. and just hours after donald trump's claim of a political win in last night's debate, a new legal victory as well courtesy of the supreme court. they're decision in the case of the a january 6 rioter, what the implications are for jack smith's case against trump. and with all of this in mind, it is now voters who will

have to figure out what to make of the candidates, two men, even before last night, they repeatedly said they don't want, and now with a number of double haters growing, where does the race go from here? a whole lot to get to in friday but we start with north carolina with the post first post-debate rally following a response to what happened last night. the atlantic calling it a disaster that set off alarm bells. a politico article called it the worst performance in american history and multiple telling nbc news that biden needs to step aside. saying it is time to talk about an open convention and a new democratic nominee. kamala harris's former spokesperson simone sanders townsend told me a few hours ago, that is not happening. at least not now. >> i asked directly, is joe biden dropping out and i said

no, and i said are you prepping for a new nominee, they said we are not. >> that said, the hand wringing over biden is overshadowing donald trump's own uneven performance including dozens of lies from everything from abortion to january 6. the former president is set to hold a rally in chesapeake, virginia, later in afternoon. we are in north carolina with the president and ali vitale and matthew dowd is a political analyst for the bush cheney 2004 campaign and with me on set, basil smikle and former chair of the new york state democratic party. okay, mike, what do the president and his team plan to do now? have you heard anything about strategy sessions? changes in approach? tell us what you know. >> reporter: well, chris, of course there is concern throughout the democratic party about what they saw in atlanta last night. there is a tone of defiance on

the part of president biden and his core advisers staying on the record he is not stepping aside and that is actual systems go as far as going forward including that second debate in september. as we're having these real conversations in public will whether the president should continue versus what i've hearing in this room. one of the more enthusiastic crowds that i've been in as i've been covering this president throughout his campaigns. we're hearing from governor cooper right now who is trying to rally the troops here. but we're also hearing from key lawmakers on capitol hill about some of the blunt conversations that may be happening behind closed doors, including one of the president's closest allies, jim clyburn who helped get him to this point. here is what he said on capitol hill today. >> on substance, there is nothing -- with what he's doing. on style, joe biden is not a show off. joe biden is -- and just continue to do the work and

continue to talk to people about the work that he's doing. >> reporter: now some democrats do want to sees motivated by

revenge and retribution. well revenge and retribution never built a damn thing you and i, we americaneds are a nation of hope and that is how we build america and that is going to continue to build america today. the choice in this election is simple. donald trump will destroy our democracy, i will defend it. so, folks, are you with me? donald trump's the first president i've heard of that sat up there and run for president having had one term saying

america is a failing nation. where the hell does he think he is? i'm serious. i don't know a president that wouldn't trade places with america in a heartbeat. he's dead wrong. american is not a losing nation. americaa is winning. and as i stand here today, i'm never more optimistic. we have to remember who we are. we're the united states of america. and there is nothing, nothing beyond our capacity. nothing when we act together. >> usa, usa! [ crowd chanting ] >> you got it. so may god bless youal and may god protect our troops. let's go get them, north carolina. ♪♪

♪♪ >> president joe biden repeatedly feeling the love of an enthusiastic crowd prerepeatedly shouting "four more years." if there was any question about whether the president was privately mulling what we heard from democrats, from strategists, people from the highest level, quietly and publicly questioning whether he should step down and not run against donald trump, clear the way for someone who might be better able to beat the former president, he just answered them with, i believe with my heart and soul i can do the job. i want to bring in back maja dowd and basil smikle.

energy, bazil. a lot of enthusiasm from this crowd. is this the guy that democrats hade hoped to see at that deba last night? >> absolutely. i'm sure democrats are saying where was this guy last night when we needed him to shine on thatin stage. when you're in a debate situation like that, you want to convince voters that you're going to fight for them. and because joe biden has always campaigned on his empathy, he wanted to seeai some of the empathy come outf in the rhetorical turns that would have pushed t potentially donald tru on his heels and called out the discrepancies in their records. but you didn't get that last night. but i think what joe biden did today and you know listening to that speech, not only do i think a lot of democrats needed to hear that, but i think joe biden needed to experience that. he needed to be on that stage and experience the love that he got from the crowd to be able to speak to the things that he wantedhe to speak to, and triedo put some of the naysayers to rest. but also, to -- for him, maybe

that is what he needs. heat needs that public rejuvenation that he did not get with donald trump and two moderators on a debate stage. having said that, that today is the main point is what the surrogates have been saying since last night. which is e that, regardless of that performance, the existential threat that democrats have been talking about before thatcr debate, sti exist. and this isn't a choice -- this is a choice between donald trump and joe biden. are you going to sit home or make the choice that it is -- it is furtherance of democracy and not a choice to end it. >> matthew, if you want to be on the other side of this, you could say,ot that was a good speech. but it came off a teleprompter. okay, enthusiastic crowd but a crowd thatut a good campaign wod have putgn together anyway.

but that was particularly important today. people saw the debate last night than just watched this on television. however, let me play for you a key part of joe biden, not avoiding deit, but directly takg on the elephant in the room. here it is. >> i know i'm not a young man. to state the obvious. well, i know. [ crowd chanting ] folks, i don't walk as good as i used to and i don't speak as good as i used to, and i don't debate as well as i used to.

but i do know what i do know and i know how to tell the truth. i know -- i know -- i know right from wrong. and i know how to do this job. i know how to get things done. and i know like millions of americans know, when you get knocked down, you get back up. >> matthew dowd, the president woke up in a big hole this morning in a big hole with the nation voters and in a big hole with his party having said that, is the guy you just saw there someone who may be able to dig his way out of that? >> well, i'm glad you played that line. that is what we call in the political business, the money line. i thought that was the best line of theat entire speech. and i had, and we've had this conversation, ive thought that

should have been his exact tact last night. to give people a permission structure to say, yeah, i'm old, yeah, i don't speak as well, yeah, i don't walk as well, but, dang it, i tell the truth and i fight for you in the course of this. he didn't say that t last night. now, today was much better. but as you pointed out, the problem is and again we talked about this, last night was a very, very important moment. tens of millions of people were watching last night. and both candidates walked in with preconceptions, negative and positive. and the problem about last night was that joe biden reinforced the negative perceptions of him being too pold, not being ableo putei sentences together and al of that. donald trump t didn't do anythi out of the norm. everybody that watched donald trump knows that is who donald trump is andat he's a liar in a of that. and even with a great speech today, whichit i think is a goo start, he needs many, many more

and needs many, many surrogates in the course of this. but joete biden is going to taka hit from last night in my view. i watched a not as a bad performance, when i was working for george w. bush in the first debate against john kerry and we lost fourrr points in a week. but back in 2004, there was a vice presidential president and another presidential debate within ten days of that poor performance. there is not another debate scheduledat for 75 days. that is 75 days while people -- most people in the country's perceptions are going to be driven byon what happened last night. not byla what he's talking abou in north carolina today. andor that is a huge, huge problem. and i think he calmed some nerves with the speech today and his activities in the aftermath of the debate, i think the next thing you're going to see, if we see it, if there is a two or

three drop in the polls where donald trump takes a small lead, then i think you'll see the choreus again raise their voices and say, can we take a chance in this perilous, perilous moment of american history and -- and have joe biden as the nominee running against donald trump whn is an existential threat in most people's i minds to democracy. can we take that chance? i think maybe what just happened today paused that conversation to some degree. but i think if polls start dropping and it is going to be raised again. >> and you got to figure out as a campaign how to fix it. joe biden can only control his performance, right. having said that, the campaign can put him in places and in the number of places to help him to succeed, right. a lot of folks are suggesting already today, needs to get out there, he needs to do what we just saw right now, week after week after, week after week, c he sustain that? can he show that he's able to do

that? and maybe just pick a message which mathew picked up on, he just said america itself is at stake. he said donald trump will destroy democracy. i will defend it and then he went into the most lies at a debate. what does the campaign have to do because questions are being raised about decisions that made that got him on to the debate stage last night. >> and to matthew's point, it will take a hit. but there will be a hit. but what i'd like to see, and you had pete buttigieg on earlier. >> yep. >> that the democratic party is bigger than joe biden. it is pete buttigieg, it is kamala harris, it is governor wes moore g and gavin newsom. >> but they look at the folks and say they're the ones that could replace him on the ticket. >> that is all wellul and good. but the w reality is for democrs to go out and say, it is just about voting for joe biden, it is an agenda that is about democracy and it is t about

holding fair elections. because this might be the last full election we have for a while. so when you start talking inwe those terms and getting really good speakers, the strong -- people would say democratic bench that exists if. you get thosest folks out there and say it is not just about joe biden, it is about all of these people, compared to a man who said in donald trump that maybe migrants should fight it out for their citizenship. gladiator style. when you startci making those kd of comparisons and drawing those distinctions, then i think you help america to make that choice. it is very quickly. remember, we're talking about a very -- 6% or 7% of the population o who isn't sure wha they want to do. did thet debate help? no. but there is still time to, again, frame that choice for that voter. >> it is interesting, matthew, dowd, i'm talking to some folks, it seems that at least in our little group of people that we talk to in a couple of

battleground c states, they don think either guy did a great job. they're not saying, wow, trump really cleaned his clock, right. what are you looking for both strategically b from the biden campaign and joe biden, but also in the polls to tell you the path forward if there is one? >> well, i'm in michigan right now, chris, and i've talked to probably in the last 12 hours, 12 or 14 voters many of which are v undecided, some of which were trump voters in the course of this what their perception is, they don't like either one of the candidates. they were t hoping they would s joe biden with what they saw today, they were going to see that last night.he they didn't. and they thought it was a disaster in that regard because their perception was requests about his ability and his cognitive ability and his speaking ability. and all of that. and they were -- that was reinforced, the negative was reinforced in the course of this. whatren i'm looking for, two things. one, cantw the biden campaign

replicate what he said today for the next 150sa days? can they do that for the next 150 day? that is one thing. can they do it every day and not go off an different tan gents and can joe biden show that and the surrogates in the course of that. what i'm looking for in the polling, one, as basil said, the 6%ai or 7%, what happens to the over the course of the next week, that is one. but two, how does the motivation change because my worry if i'm a democracy and a biden supporter in this, i worry that they looked at debate and it demote vated some democrats. that is a huge problem. because i think donald trump motivated his base. regardless of a liar he is and all of the things that he does and says, and how wrong they are, i think it motivated or kept his base motivated. i worry that when we look at polls in the next week or so, there may be a shift among

undecided or swing but more importantly there may be some demotevation of the democratic base and that is o a problem. >> matthew dowd, basil smikle, thank you both. two of my favor the people to have on set in situations like this. in the sti hours before preside biden's rally in north carolina, some of the most influential thinkers did raise the question of t whether joe biden should b replaced as the presidential nominee. nicolas kristof wrote this, one of the perils facing this country, i believe and biden believes, is the risk of a victory by donald trump. and after the debate, it is hard to avoid the feeling that biden remaining in the racin creases the likelihood that trump will move in january. joining us now eugene daniels, political contributor, and nick cristoff, columnist for the "new york times." nick, i know you and i have read

you for a long time. i know you don't take your position or influence lightly. you could have said, let's take a breath. let's see what the polls show. let's see what joe biden does in the coming weeks, you didn't. tell us more about your decision to make it now. >> i wrote thatto with a heavy heart. i have admired biden for many years, and i thinkid he had a great first term, but, you know, he made the point himself today just now in north carolina that donald trump is a threat to democracy. the stakes are enormous in this election. and given that argument, which i think isch completely right, i think we need to do everything possible to ensure that trump does not win, and, you know, look, i think trump already arguably had an edge before the debate.n i think that that debate is, you know, raised an awful lot of questions in the minds of a

tremendous number of centrist voters, and, you know, is it possible that the north carolina biden will reappear steadily every time between now and november? yes, but it's also possible that the debate biden will periodically, and we don't have the chance after the convention to, you know, to choose a nominee who will be a stronger candidate. so i think the time is now. i think we have better nominees who are more likely to keep trump out of the white house, and to me, that's paramount. >> who are they, nick, and how do you see this potentially playing out? >> the only way that it would work is if president biden himself decided to bow out of the race. i think that,e you know, democrats are going to be reluctant to urge biden out for fear ofe harming him if he sta in. it's easy for columnists to do that. it's a lot harder if you're a democratic office holder. but if biden were to bow out and

throw it to an open convention, then that could proceed. it would create, i think, some, you know, risksd. of chaos. it would alsoha create perhaps some excitement about who would take over the nomination, and i think there's actually a pretty decent benchs in the democrati party. gretchen whitmeric is somebody o i think, you know, would help win michigan, and michigan is a pretty crucial state the democrats have to win. she might be on the top of my list, but, you know, i think pete buttigieg is a very impressive guy.pr you know, gavin newsom is impressive. gina raimondo, a number of folks. gretchen whitmer would be at the toptm of my list. >> you spoke to democrats about biden's performance last night. one of them said biden is toast. another said time for an open convention. we live in a 15-minute campaign cycle, and we know that there were concernse, before this abo

biden's age. but did this escalate to, as david plouffe said on our air last night, a def con 1. >> they were shocked. this was an extreme case. something folks have seen off and on for years. you have a president who at best in some of these performances has been sort of inconsistent, right. oneon day as we saw today, he'sn fire. the state of the union,on he's going back and forth to negotiating with members of congress in realtime, and they know -- then he'll do a speech and you can't hear what he's saying. last night was the worst case scenario. you have ast biden campaign who chose -- it's important to s remember, they chose this early debate. they wanted to focus the american people on the choice in november. get people to pay attention earlier than they do. because typically they would do

this afterey both of these men e already officially the nominees of the party. replacing them is much harder. the american people are paying attention. they choosepa to do the debate. this is their issue that they created and it was a bed that failed miserably. when you talk to democrats, the inconsistency from joe biden has been a concern for a long time, and i will say to the question, the biggest question is how would this happen. unless democrats are able to convince two people, joe biden and president biden's valerie biden owens, to go to him and tell t him that he has to step aside, it's almost impossible for it to actually happen. those are the people he listens to the most. those are the people who helped himop make the big decision on actually running in 2020. if you can't convince them to convince him, it's not changing, and so n kind of the wish casti that's happening at this point

in the democratic party, it seems unlikely and it's also just going to make it more difficult to beat donald trump as they get closer because it makes themau look weak and make them look like he doesn't have the supportive party. >>e critically important time. critically important conversation. i heartily urge people to reread what eugene and nick have written over the last 24 hours. in an hour, it's president trump's turn to speak for the first time after the debate, and we'll beme live at the virginia rally. plus, the impact t of a hug supreme court january 6th ruling and what it means for jack smith's case againstme the form president. stay close, much more "chris jansing reports" right after this. hris jansinreports" right after this nd it. the feeling of finding psoriasis can't filter out the real you. so go ahead, live unfiltered with the one and only sotyktu, a once-daily pill for moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, and the chance at clear or almost clear skin. it's like the feeling of finding you're so ready

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