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fiery speech to follow up a debate that many democrats called a disaster. can his direct attacks now on donald trump quiet the talk about his future on the ticket? plus, what the polling reveals about the democratic names floated to take his spot. our steve kornacki is standing by with the numbers. and the debate question that donald trump did not want to answer, his response when asked if he would accept the results of the next election. the supreme court siding with a january 6th rioters, that could upend cases, including one against former president trump. our nbc news reporters are following all of the latest developments. we begin in battleground, north carolina, where president biden's demeanor was completely different than the debate stage last night. nbc's mike memoli is reporting from raleigh. the president, he sounds rearing for a fight.

>> reporter: yeah, that's right, chris. i mean, we started this debate series of events with a lot of people wondering whether president biden was up for four more years in office. that was certainly one of the big questions that the campaign hoped to address in that debate. instead, it left a lot of democrats wondering if biden should be on the ticket for the last 130 days of this campaign. i spoke with a senior biden adviser, who said, listen, the president knew. he didn't need to hear it from fellow democrats, didn't need to watch the bad coverage to know he didn't deliver the performance he should have. they worked closely, he and his team this morning to draft the new section, the closing section of his remarks today. he knows he's not as young as he used to be, he's not as good a debater as he used to be, and doesn't walk as he used to, but he wouldn't be in the race if he didn't believe with his heart and soul that he could do the job. we also heard some of the attack lines that democrats might have liked to hear more crisply last

night during that debate. here's just one of them. take a listen. >> unlike the other guy, we're going to stand up to dictators like putin because -- [ applause ]. >> america bows to no one, no one, no one ever. >> i don't know what you did last night, but i spent 90 minutes on a stage and debated a guy who has the morals of an alley cat. did you see trump last night? my guess, i mean this sincerely, a new record for the most lies told in a single debate. he lied about the great economy he created. he lied about the pandemic he botched. >> reporter: now, this was a very different president than the one we saw last night on the debate stage. this was also a president who unlike last night on the debate stage was reading from a teleprompter. it was also a president who had a very enthusiastic audience.

s the energy he was clearly feeding off. did the speech begin to address some of the skittish nerves that democrats across the country are feeling or does it feed the idea that maybe president biden can have strong moments like the state of the union address or like a rally or two. what they need to see is a more consistent performance from the president, especially if there is another debate as scheduled on september 10th, chris. >> mike memoli, traveling with the president in north carolina, which brings us to virginia where donald trump is heading for his first debate rally. the issue of january 6th, the issue of honoring the election results came up at the debate last night. what more can you tell us? >> you know what joe biden thinks is the greatest threat to our country, the weather. you got it, ma'am. >> reporter: i'm having a little bit of trouble hearing you. at this rally, we have heard

several mentions at this point of the debate last night. of course trump himself won't be on stage for about an hour now. look, one of the questions i think many people were looking to see asked on that debate stage, i know you were listening for too is the issue of january 6th and the role of election denialism around the 2020 election. a lot of texts i got last night, and a lot of us got texts last night, but many were focused on why that came up so late in the debate and the response that trump had to it. listen to that exchange, and we'll talk about it on the back end. >> the question was will you accept the results of the election regardless of who wins, yes or no, please? >> if it's a fair and legal and good election, absolutely. i would have much rather accepted these, but the fraud and everything else was ridiculous. and if you want, we'll have a news conference on it in a week or we'll have another one of these in a week, but i will absolutely, there's nothing i'd rather do.

>> reporter: chris, i have been covering trump since 2015 on and off. if i waited a week or held my breath for every time he said we'll have a news conference on that in a week, i'd be holding my breath for a long time. while that press conference may not come, that's an answer democrats wanted to see a starker answer on it. in terms of the way we're listening -- and we're seeing bob mcdonald come on stage now. in terms of the things we might hear from trump, i imagine his campaign is doing something we're going to echo. joe biden, despite the panic from other democrats is going to be the person he's facing on the ballot adviser told our team in atlanta, the only way he's off the ballot is if he's stepping down, and biden is not going to be stepping down. certainly that's something that biden seemed to underscore in

north carolina. we'll listen to hear how trump talks about the debate. you got to imagine this is going to be a victory lap. this is the best case scenario for the trump campaign. it dispels any notion of them cutting off a debate post news cycle with a vp pick. that's something we're watching closely here as well as the rnc convention gets closer, chris. >> ali vitali, thank you so much for that. with democrats privately discussing replacing joe biden at the top of the ticket, big h be able to fill the spot? we go to steve kornacki because there are some indications with numbers to answer those questions. >> yeah, i mean, a couple of ways of looking at it. the backdrop of the performance and the reaction from the democrats, look at this way, in the 2020 campaign, we asked folks, who is better when it comes to having the necessary mental and physical health to be president, and there's basically a wash. 41 said biden. 40 said trump.

so there were concerns about both but they were even on that question. now, over several years of being president, those perceptions changed when it came to biden. but not so much with trump. we asked the question again at the start of this year, and at the start of this year, look at that, that biden number, a 2-1 margin here, widespread concerns about biden have developed during his presidency, and were not new last night. a "new york times" poll this week showed -- asked voters a blunt question, is age such an issue that the candidate is not capable of handling the presidency before the debate, 45% of voters said that about joe biden, the number for trump was just 16%. look, first of all, what do these numbers look like when we start getting polling, probably next week, a fallout from this debate. if they get any worse, obviously, biden is in a precarious position. that chatter, you should hear grow.

the question becomes if not biden, who would it be. that's where it gets complicated. the logical person is the vice president. ran for president once. assume she has presidential ambitions. here's the issue there. she's well known. this is her favorable, unfavorable score in two recent polls. compare to biden. 41% favorable in the fox news poll. in the same poll, joe biden was 44%. he's three points less. in the economist, yougov poll, she's at 49%. if you're looking at the vice president, does that put you in a better position politically. you say it doesn't, would kamala harris also agree to step aside and let a brand new ticket come in or is that something she would fight? would you have complications there? if you got to the next level and it's not kamala harris, then the issue is stature, who of any

stature could you put in who democrats would agree on, be consensus immediately, and who the country knows. there's not much polling on names you hear. this was conducted by ipsos for an interest group. there's a lot of names i would like to test. these are the three they did test. pete buttigieg, favorable, 30, unfavorable, 28, that's still a lot that don't moe him. gavin newsom, almost half the country doesn't have an opinion of him, those that do, double digits. gretchen whitmer, 17, 17, among those who do. there are other names, josh shapiro, the governor of pennsylvania, amy klobuchar, senator of minnesota. those are the numbers when you get beyond biden and harris and, big name national figures. it's a question mark. you can see democrats might see potential talent nationally, and say gretchen whitmer, that's a

big question mark. how would she be received by the public, and would that give democrats pause. is there a democrat out there with the national stature and popularity who would step in and immediately unite the party and be strong against trump. you hear this one a lot. there's no indication she has any interest but just to give you a sense, michelle obama, the last time we polled her on this question of favorable, unfavorable, that's been a few years, it was 57% favorable and 25% unfavorable. so that's the kind of profile, just in terms of, you know, widely known and look at that, much more popular. more than twice as popular as unpopular there in the poll. that's the kind of profile the democrats would probably want in a situation. beyond michelle obama, not sure where you could find that, chris. >> i asked somebody close to michelle obama last summer, if she would even consider in a

dramatic situation. i didn't get the question out and the answer was no, so -- and not a lot of time for folks to build name recognition. fascinating stuff. thank you. in 90 seconds a huge court ruling in a criminal case that is not donald trump's but could have special counsel jack smith rethinking how he prosecutes the former president. resident ♪♪ citi's industry leading global payments solutions help their clients move money around the world seamlessly in over 180 countries... and help a partner like the world food programme as they provide more than food to people in need. together, citi and the world food programme empower families across the globe. ♪♪ nothing dims my light like a migraine. with nurtec odt, i found relief. the only migraine medication that helps treat and prevent, all in one. to those with migraine, i see you.

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the supreme court issuing a major decision related to january 6th. making it harder to charge riot defendants with obstruction. it's a new complication for special counsel jack smith whose indictment against donald trump includes obstruction charges. hundreds of other january 6th cases could be impacted by the ruling. joining us now, nbc's ryan reilly, catherine christian, former assistant district attorney, and msnbc legal analyst. ryan, as someone who covers this day in and day out, and has since january 6th, give us the nuts and bolts of this decision. >> this impacts overall hundreds of cases. if you really narrow it down to the cases this will have a material impact with in the short-term, you're talking about a spectrum of 52 cases, and 27 of those cases, you have an individual currently serving a sentence of incarceration, who may be impacted by this case. we have already seen some filings, in fact, one of the judges has set up three

resentencing hearings for an individual who's sentenced under this obstruction of justice charge. going back to manhattan, deciding where that sentence is going to ultimately fall and perhaps shortening the sentence that was imposed there. what the justice department has said and prosecutors are saying is this isn't going to have the sweeping impact we have feared here. there's a holding party. as they sort through the justice department, what the pounds of the ruling are, and how they proceeded. be able to tie it directly, and that often requires them to go into their devices and see what sort of messages they were sending before january 6th, and especially now that you're getting 3 1/2 years out. a lot of that information, especially in some of the recent cases we have seen have gone away. people switch phones. it's not available anymore. there's been litigation about

that. there are hundreds of people who have been identified but not yet charged, and we've only got a year and a half left on the statute of limitations. it's a matter of resources. how many cases is the justice department going to get out the door. this could change if donald trump is elected in november, and ultimately decided this isn't going to go forward and orders the justice department to dismiss charges, and pardons rioters, et cetera. a lot of questions in the year in the next year and a half in the statute of limitations. if you're a lawyer for one of the defendants what are you doing right now? >> immediately filing motions to dismiss the charge. including donald trump's lawyers. two of the january 6th cases involved these very charges. they're going to move to dismiss these charges, arguing that this decision rules and therefore it has to be dismissed. the special counsel could say,

we agree, we could try them on the other two charges or disagree. there will be litigation, assuming that the supreme court on monday doesn't find he's immune. assuming the case goes forward, that will be more delay. there will be an argument about whether or not this decision makes these charges go away. >> there was a slim to none chance that this was actually going to go to trial before the election for sure. but when you look at the overall case, what does this mean for jack smith? >> well, it's not fatal. assuming jack smith says you know what, we agree with the supreme court, let's go with conspiracy to defraud the united states, conspiracy against rights. what he's losing is that maximum prison sentence of 20 years. that's what those two charges have. if he wants to try this case, assuming it's possible before election day, and i don't think that's possible. he will concede it, this will cause more litigation and more delay. >> one of the biggest decisions we have been waiting for didn't come today, and it's going to come on monday, at least chief

justice roberts says, monday is it, last day of the term, which means the presidential immunity decision is going to happen. remind folks of the stakes here and what the possible options are for this court. it's not just a yes or no necessarily. >> there's three. they can say, which would be, in my opinion, it's not going to happen would be ridiculous that the president of the united states is immune from criminal prosecution or in this case, a former president. >> he could literally walk down fifth avenue, shoot someone, and nobody could do anything about it. >> then boom, the case goes away. they could also say the case doesn't go away, he can be criminally prosecuted, period, send it back to judge chutkan and have the trial or they could say there are some acts he's probably -- official acts that he could be immune from, but the private acts he can not be. send it back to the trial judge to figure out which acts he should get immunity. >> let's clarify what a personal act would be. that would be something related to the campaign, correct?

as opposed to the governance of the nation when you're president of the united states. >> exactly. most of his unindicted coconspiracies are not government officials. but the other people were private actors. lawyers. rudy giuliani. it's hard to argue. if you remember the oral argument, it was justice barrett who read from the indictment, saying you said that's a private act. so this could happen. there will be a hearing where judge chutkan will have the hearing, in many ways, that's good. it means the trial will still be delayed, but the public will hear actually evidence and witnesses about what the government said donald trump did allegedly. it's not a trial, but it could be a mini trial. >> a very big day on monday with the supreme court, catherine christian, i'm sure we'll see you then. thank you very much. still to come on msnbc, new reporting on the one person in joe biden's inner circle who he would listen to when it comes to stepping aside.

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the fallout from the first presidential debate is reverberating beyond the u.s. take a look at some of the headlines. from germany, good night, joe. the uk, and in israel, "a sad night for america." here at home, we're getting insights into how democrats are grappling with the debate performance. "the new york times" reports that members of the party were imagining scenarios in which

party elders like chuck schumer, former speaker nancy pelosi, representative james clyburn intervened to convince him to step aside following moments like this. >> look, if we finally beat medicare -- >> thank you, president biden. president trump. >> he's right, he beat medicare, he beat it to death. >> i'm going to continue to move until we get the total ban on the total initiative relative to what we can do with more border patrol and more asylum officers. >> president trump. >> i really don't know what he said at the end of that sentence. i don't think he knows what he said either. >> the times also reported that biden is a proud stubborn man who thinks he's best equipped to defeat trump, and won't listen to anyone other than his wife, first lady, who has strongly supported another run. joining us now, eddie glaude jr. that does not look like princeton in the backdrop, and

chris whipple, author of the "the fight of his life," inside joe biden's white house. i think you're in aspen. gorgeous backdrop there. based on the rally we saw, it sure doesn't sound like joe biden is going to go anywhere. he said he can win. how does a man, though, who has been in public office serving his country for half of his life, weigh the considerations when you have so many people who know you, support you, and love you are saying, maybe it's time? >> well, first of all, it's actually a beautiful day here in aspen. it's good to see you, chris. i think he has to understand his legacy. he has to think about his legacy. he has to think about the party and most importantly, he has to think about the country, what would it mean for him to stay in the race, if he's not capable of actually running a campaign to defeat donald trump. that's a question he has to ask himself honestly. and i think the people around him, even those who are invested

in him staying in the race so authentic stay in power in the white house, they have to ask themselves the question, is this good for the country, and at that moment, you have to, you know, make a decision, will you make a george washington like moment and step aside? that's a question that is for him in the privacy of his family and with friends, but it's a question he has to address. >> chris, we do have some new reaction this morning from one of his biggest supporters, frankly, nancy pelosi. let me play that. >> do you think president biden is the best messenger for the top of the ticket? >> i'm a very big supporter of president biden, he's been a great president, and done great things for our country. >> he's been a great president, he's done great things. we were talking with eugene daniels from "politico," who said it's on his wife and sister who he would listen to. is there anybody you would see in his life who would be saying to him right now, listen, there's a lot of people talking. we need to have a conversation about this or is that even a

conversation that joe biden would have? >> well, he might, but let me just first of all say, look, it was a terrible night for joe biden, no question about it. perplexing because we just saw him on his game in north carolina. i mean, i think a lot of people, a lot of democrats were expecting the state of the union joe biden, the guy who owned the gop hecklers in realtime without a script during the state of the union, and somebody else showed up last night, and it's perplexing. but look, the notion, i think, that the cavalry is going to ride in and replace joe biden at the top of the ticket is fanciful. god love jon kasich and nick kristof. there are a couple of problems. you would need an intervention by family members and close friends. would probably have to be joe biden, valerie, hunter, plus a couple of good friends like ted kauffman, his old colleague and

maybe mike donalin. if they could parade joe biden to step aside, you would have the problem of who is going to lead the democratic party, you know, the idea that this disparate party is going to coalesce around some person, unnamed, and, you know, to have an open convention where it's a jump ball. we have been down that road before, and it's not pretty. >> you know, eddie, a lot of folks who, again, are supporters of joe biden, and who knows and really admire joe biden spoke in terms last night and this morning about heartbreaking that it really shocked them to their core to see what they saw last night. i saw at least one person who is a big supporter of joe biden who was on the air who look like he might cry, frankly, got very emotional about what he had seen, but i want to play you how biden and trump both addressed

the question that really is at the heart after all of this, which is age. here's what they said. >> this guy is three years younger, and a lot less competent. >> can't hit a ball 50 yards. he challenged me to a golf ball. >> i got my handicap down when i was vice president, down to a 6. and by the way, i told you before, i'm happy to play golf with you, if you carry your own bag. think you can do it? >> that's the biggest lie that he's a 6 handicap of all. >> i was 8 handicap. >> i've seen you swing. i know your swing. >> so we're in a presidential debate at a time in our country and our world where the stakes are tremendous, and this is where we are for a lot of people who we know, the polls show, they don't live either guy. but put this into some perspective for us and how we as a nation can look at this and say, how do we move forward.

>> see, that's the question. i was watching the debate in a room full of people in aspen, and as the exchange happened, there was a loud scream, no, stop it, don't go down this road, and then i imagined young millennials and general zers and watching that exchange and thinking we must be crazy, and then i drew this conclusion. joe biden isn't going anywhere, no matter how bad or horribly he performed last night. gretchen whitmer or gavin newsom is not going to ride in on our white horse and save democracy. at the end of the day, we have to take responsibility for this thing. we have to stop outsourcing the future of our country, our democracy, to politicians. we're going to have to take responsibility, and we're going to have to understand that the choice may be between old, quote unquote, feeble man, and a

convicted felon, a cook, a fascist, and we have to understand that, and we have to do all the work that's possible. all the work that is available to us to keep him out of office. and that is our responsibility. so we can talk about how joe biden failed horribly. how feeble he was, how his mouth was agape, all of that is true. at the end of the day, it's our responsibility at the voting booth to save this country, and we have to do it no matter what. >> chris who has spent time writing and thinking about joe biden, one of the things he said today in north carolina was, when you get knocked down, you get back up. is that joe biden and do you think he has the capacity to take what happened last night and look at it, if not, maybe i need to step down. here's what i need to do. this is what it campaign needs to do to really succeed. >> well, joe biden and his campaign staff will tell you over and over again, he has been

underestimated time and time again. and i think he probably needs to take a page from ronald reagan's 1984 campaign book. reagan famously was befuddled and confused. he came back in the next debate and delivered that sinker about mondale's age, he was sharp and funny and on point. he managed to turn that completely around. it's a long time between now and the next debate obviously. >> 75 days, i think. during that time eddie said eloquently, all of us have to do the hard work. and joe biden has to do hard work. i think he needs to be out there the way he was today. and they need to strategically put him in places where he can show once again that this is the guy, this is the state of the union joe biden, not the biden we saw last night. >> as my dad used to say and so

many dads out there, if you don't vote, you don't get to complain about who gets elected and how they do. eddie glaude, i will thank you, but look, you're in one of the most beautiful places in the country, so there you go. that's where are reward, chris. thank you so much for coming in. >> sure. >> appreciate both of you guys. still ahead, the double haters who have a new phrase after the debate. double cringe. we have several battleground state reporters standing by. por. t indigestion iberogast bloating iberogast thanks to a unique combination of herbs, iberogast helps relieve six digestive symptoms to help you feel better. six digestive symptoms. the power of nature. iberogast. this is clem. clem's not a morning person. or a night person. or a...people person. but he is an "i can solve this in 4 different ways" person. and that person... is impossible to replace.

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breaking news we've just gotten an unsigned opinion from the supreme court involving steve bannon, the one-time trump adviser who has been trying to stay out of prison. ryan reilly joins us once again with the details. >> the supreme court has rejected bannon's bid to stay out of prison. he has been ordered to report to prison by monday. this is his last chance effort before the supreme court, but the supreme court denied him. they did a similar situation with peter navarro. this all started two years ago or even longer than that really. but the trial started two years ago when steve bannon defied the january 6th committee, refusing to provide documents and testimony. he was convicted at that trial, and then was sentenced in the fall of 2022, so a year and a half ago. that actual sentence, the imposition of that sentence or the serving of that sentence had

been delayed by a number of appeals, this sort of worked through the system after an appeals court rejected steve bannon's claim. the judge who sentenced him said there's no reason to stop the imposition of the sentence and to keep steve bannon out of prison. on monday, in 48 hours, 72 hours, we will be seeing steve bannon report to a prison facility, chris. >> ryan reilly, thank you for that. in the race for the white house, well, they were hoping the debate would give them clarity. today we're hearing deep disappointment from the most coveted slim slice of the electorate, undecided voters in critical swing states like arizona. take a listen. >> how would you describe this, double what? >> double frustrated. >> how about you. >> double cringe. >> the feeling i had inside was trump, hell no, he lied through the whole thing, and biden, it's like, oh, no, he is really in bad shape. can he even run the rest of the

election or take the white house again. >> i came to watch, to try to watch two relatively sane people talk about what they're going to do for the country, and we got two second graders having a slug fest on the playground. >> joining me now, a lineup of top political journalists from four other battleground states, the nevada inspect's john ralston, the milwaukee journal sentinel's molly beck. simon schuster and greg bluestein, good to have all of you. has joe biden's debate performance overshadowed what they want to talk about in terms of the issues. tell me what your conversations have been? >> absolutely. we went into the debate thinking we would hear a lot from people

who watched it, interviews about abortion, abortion is a big issue in wisconsin, following the u.s. supreme court's decision to overturn roe v. wade. we had a law here that went back into effect that effectively banned abortions. that's been a big issue on voters' minds here, the president's performance during the debate has completely overshadowed that. i'm in madison, the bluest city in wisconsin, and we went to a debate watch party last night, and, you know, everybody there was pretty excited to support the president during that event. and what we heard as it was going on was somebody asked for a barf bag. somebody, you know, said that they were just pretty -- just didn't want to watch it anymore, and a lot of people left at the first commercial break. >> anytime someone asks for a

barf bag, is not a good sign. you and i were there together yesterday and talked about this, so what are the initial reactions you're getting today? >> yeah, i mean, think about it this way, instead of going on the offensive and trying to reach new voters, democrats here in georgia and elsewhere in the country are going on the defensive, the opposite of what joe biden's campaign wanted to be doing today. if you think about it through the prism of an undecided voter, you didn't see anything you liked in either candidate. in state like georgia where the dynamics favor the republicans, they favor donald trump, then that's exactly what republicans want. they are just fine with undecided voters staying home because former president trump already has a lead in georgia. >> and, john, good to see you again my friend, double haters in nevada actually have an option on the ballot.

they can vote none of the above, and i know you said in the past that could be a key factor there. do you think now it's even more in play? >> i think it's possible, chris. it's good to be back with you. it's june 28th. we don't know what's going to happen in the next few months. democrats here are reacting. one of the most prominent democrats in the state couldn't watch the debate but texted me anyhow saying his phone was blowing up with terrible texts. was it as bad as he was hearing? and then he got home later and texted me again and said it was worse than i heard. people are not blind, chris. yes, they're insiders who were panicking, and they're saying we've got to replace the president, which is very unlikely to happen, of course, but democrats here were already worried. that's the problem, chris.

trump has been ahead in every poll here publicly released for the last eight months. this certainly is not going to help biden. >> meantime, simon, your paper, bridge michigan says buzz is rising about gretchen whitmer, is that something the governor or voters there would even consider seriously? >> i think almost as soon as the debate ended last night, there was sort of a beginning of breathless coverage that emerged that looked at where is governor gretchen whitmer, what is she doing, thinking about this, and why can't we have her here as a replacement for the president. she's enormously popular among michigan democrats. the governor has shown every intent to contest the election or bring support around a presidential bid. she has been a party loyalist, and has shown she's loyal to the president there's sort of a willful ignorance against

president biden's supporters, they're helped by the hyperpolarization. they dislike trump, don't necessarily like biden but going to avoid watching the debate all together, and some that tuned out were glad they did, when we've seen some of the coverage. in michigan, we have voters voting uncommitted over the conflict in gaza. one voter said she's already not voting for biden because of his complete failure in palestine and others are doing what i would say that republicans were hoping for for president trump in 2020, which is don't look at the man. look past him. look at the policies he's passed and that his reelection is going to lead to more judiciary appointments and a further advancement of the democratic policy portfolio. such interesting stuff from key battleground states. simon schuster, molly beck, greg

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(woman) yes! (vo) close in a matter of days. when life's doors open, we'll handle the house. we are now hearing from president obama about president biden's shaky debate performance. he posted on x, bad debate nights happen, trust me, i know. but this selection is still a choice between someone who has fought for ordinary folks his entire life and someone who only cares about himself between someone who tells the truth, who knows right from wrong and will give it to the american people straight, and someone who lies through his teeth for his own benefit. last night didn't change that, and that's why so much is at stake in november. joining me mark mckinnon, creator of the political documentary series "the circus." i wonder, mark, if just that tweet tells us anything about the seriousness of the situation that obama felt or the biden campaign asked him to tweet

about it. what do you make of his message? >> well, listen, i think that's what he had to say. but the reality is it wasn't just a bad debate. last night was a competency test, and biden didn't meet the moment. people tuned in to see whether or not he actually seemed like he was 80. he seemed like he was 90. the only thing that's going to fix the problem is a time machine. i don't think one is available. >> you don't think it's fixable. i want to make sure i understand. you don't think it's fixable moving forward? >> i don't think it's fixable. if joe biden continues to run, he loses, period, end of sentence. >> so in north carolina, he looked vital. he was on point, on message. let's say they do do the second debate. >> you can't be president and be vital one day, and not be vital the next. you have to be vital all the time when you're president. >> some people argue that's what happened to ronald reagan from the first debate to the next

debate. >> listen, reagan was substantially younger than joe biden. joe biden, you can't be 66 years old in america and be a park ranger, but joe biden is running as an 80-year-old, and he'll be substantially older than that into his second term. he shouldn't have run, that's the reality, and the reality is that those people who are saying joe biden should go ahead and run, oh, it's too difficult to withdraw, are conceding the election to donald trump, that's my opinion. i think if joe biden runs, democrats lose and that's it. and yes, it's a painful experience, but if joe biden cares about the soul of the nation, he and joe biden have to do a supple sack. his act will go down as one of the most selfish in american political history. >> let's talk about the other race going on, to be the running mate of donald trump, top candidates have been in full force, spinning the falsehoods, doug burgum, j.d. vance, all were there. here's what two of them said

about their chances of getting the jobs. >> you have a chance to serve in the executive branch at the right hand of a president with a chance to fix so much of what's wrong with the country, you have to be honored by the opportunity. i'm being presumptuous. >> president trump is so strong, you look around the room tonight, you look at all the potential vps in this room. there's the bench on the republican side is so deep and so strong and so broad, president trump has got the ability to probably win this election just by himself even without a vp. >> you know, vp speculation has surrounded basically vance, rubio. befuddled some friends and advisers by continuing solicit opinions on other contenders. what do you make of this race for vp? >> well, the interesting thing is the three that you mentioned all are on record as saying that

trump was not competent enough to be president last time around, so this is just the price of admission being on the trump train, total humiliation. who would lick the boots the most. all three are eminently qualified. i think we also know that trump likes some drama. he wants to keep it going. he wants to do sort of an apprentice like reveal. it does seem to be down to the three candidates, and so we'll see. i thought that he might do it last night and steal the headlines, but he didn't have to. the headlines were there, all the headlines he needed. >> we have half a minute left. if you were a betting man, i don't know if you are. who would you say or do you think it's a fool's errand to predict what donald trump is going to come up with. >> listen, i think it's impossible to predict what trump is ever going to do. to me, rubio makes a lot of sense. i have always thought that

republicans should expand the tent and add a younger, more diverse candidate on the ticket i think helps expand the republican better. at the end of the day, i think that trump will simply go with who he thinks is most loyal. >> mark mckinnon, always good to have you on the program. thank you. that's going to do it for us this hour. make sure to join us for "chris jansing reports" every weekday here on msnbc. have a great weekend, everybody, but not before you stay tuned for your coverage of "katy tur reports" next. ports" next. s. introducing new $3 footlong dippers. the world might not be ready for them... ...but at $3 a pop? your wallet definitely is.

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good to be with you. i'm katy tur. what now? last night's debate performance was a disaster for president joe biden. he came off confused and arguably feeble, shining a big bright light on what is his biggest weakness, his age. and while his allies are publicly defending him by saying he has bee