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high five! high five... -i'm on a call. it's 5 years of reliable, gig speed internet... five years of advanced security... five years of a great rate that won't change. yep, dave's feeling it. yes. but it's only for a limited time. five years? -five years. introducing the comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. powering 5 years of savings. powering possibilities. weekend this saturday morning. we will see you back here tomorrow at 8:00 a.m. eastern. we have a number of great guests, including new york governor kathy hochul. house democratic leader hakeem jeffries.de my man, good to see him coming in the house. and be sure to follow the show on social media.

"velshi" starts right now. take it away. it's all yours. >> good morning, my friends. >> can i just say -- >> some of you will see tomorrow morning -- >> go ahead, i'm sorry. i was trying to say, michael has to use the bathroom, so what you don't understand is he is trying to give it to you so he can go. i am just like, ali doesn't know. >> this is water. >> i know how that goes. you all can do what you need to do. you don't have too much time off, because i am bringing you back in a few minutes to tap into your experience about the fact that everybody lost their minds on friday morning. we had a little time, we had a e couple nights sleep. i love watching your show, but today i needed your show, because i really needed to get all three of your analysis on what is going on. i will see you all soon. n.

so please let symone go first. "velshi" starts now. k, good morning. it is saturday, june 29. this has already been, by far, the strangest, most unprecedented election cycle in recent memory and then this week happened. president joe biden turned in an alarmingly weak performance at the first presidential debate of the season, and the news cycle has been dominated not by the supreme court's t decision to extended session past june for the fourth time in 40 years, to further delay criminal cases against donald trump from proceeding before election day and not the courts overturning of four decades of n precedent on friday in a ruling

many court watchers are calling a blatant and dangerous judicial power grab. instead the new cycle has been dominated by calls for joe biden to drop out of the presidential race, including from the editorial board of the new york times and leaders of the economist, and dispatches from panicked inner circles of the democratic party scrambling to come up with a backup plan. so far anyway, no elected f leader has gone on the record suggesting biden be dropped from the democratic ticket and one of the country's most popular democrats, former president barack obama, who himself delivered a poor performance in his run for a is second term in a debate, stepped in with a reminder that performance in a debate is not the same thing as performance as president. quote, bad debate nights happen. trust me, i know. this election is still a choice between someone who has fought for ordinary folks his entire life and someone who only cares

about himself. republicans and biden critics are gloating. well, most democrats are disappointed, alarmed even. that debate in this election simply cannot be a referendum on joe biden, when donald trump was standing across the stage from him and will appear as the other choice on the ballot in november. it is true. biden stumbled. he lost his train of thought. he looked confused at times on that stage on thursday night, but donald trump lied. he honored the insurrectionists who attacked the capital and by the way, the impeached twice, wa convicted on 34 felony counts, faces three other prosecutions and has been held liable for business fraud, sexual assault and defamation. but biden had a poor night. his legacy, donald trump's legacy, involves a radical transformation of the supreme court.e the conservative super majority he ushered and has rolled back reproductive rights across the country, gutted affirmative action, helped him indefinitely

delay his federal election interference trial. the six conservative justices, half of whom were appointed by donald trump, just had to down another devastating decision yesterday that will have profound consequences for democracy and for all of us. in overturning the decades-old precedent we know as the chevron doctrine, the court has essentially hobbled federal agencies regulatory power, which is a major win for corporate interests and industry and the judicial power grab. it is a major victory for the conservative cause that will drastically curb the independent oversight powers that executive agencies have. and it is a critical court decision that will help republicans get the ball moving on project 2025, which is the comprehensive right-wing manifesto that outlines numerous plans for the next conservative administration. one of project 2025's stated

goals is, quote, dismantle the t administrative state, end quote. we will take a deeper dive into that decision later in the ec show, but the existence of project 2025 and the 920 page playbook that outlines its plans should be a reminder to everyone that this is not about biden versus trump or about who won the debate. it is about the administration that will lead and their radically different visions for the future of this country. while we are all fretting about the debate, i understand it. i, too, found it disappointing. it is worth reminding everyone about the company that trump keeps, since more than a handful of his advisers and allies have found themselves at odds with the law. on monday, steve bannon, a former trump white house aide, will have to report to prison after the supreme court rejected his plea to remain free while his appeal is pending.

two years ago a jury found him guilty of two counts of criminal contempt charges for refusing to comply with subpoenas issued by the january 6 committee. transformer advisor peter navarro, also in prison for similarly defying a subpoena from the january 6 committee. joe biden clearly is not the same man he was four years ago. i get it. he is older. he is slower. that was painfully clear during the debate, but donald trump isn't the same person he was during the last election cycle either. he is much worse. he has become more brazen and outlandish, more racist and xenophobic if that is possible and he remains unrepentant for any of the chaos he is caused and the crimes for which he has been convicted. this election cannot be a referendum on joe biden, when donald trump continues to undermine democracy at every turn and promises to continue to do so. donald trump is unfit for office and of that there is no

debate. trying now is michael komen, former personal attorney to donald trump. author of the books revenge, how donald trump weaponized the department of justice against his critics. and disloyal, a memoir. he is also the host of a podcast. i was on with michael. michael, you are the first person i had a conversation with after the debate. i would like to replicate some of it with our viewers with a little less swearing, but you made this point very clearly. you said all the things i just said. it was a disappointing debate, no question, but donald trump said one thing that was true in that debate. he said one thing that was not a lien that debate and i think that is when he said what his name was. this has to be focused on who

donald trump is and the threat he poses to the country. >> i said to you and i will say it to your audience as well. in donald's world of lies and d deceit, the way i saw the debate, joe biden is a beacon of truth. the following day in north carolina you heard joe biden give the energy we were hoping we were going to see during the debate and he came out and said i'm not a young man and the crowd went wild, because it is true. chanting joe, joe, joe. he says i don't walk the way i used to. i don't speak the way that i used to and i don't debate the way that i used to and again, the crowd went wild for it. look, there is such a contrast between these two individuals. i also want to tell you, ali, this morning i was talking to a friend of mine and we were talking about the debate and joe biden looking very tired, which is what he looked.

something i think the american people really need to remember here is while trump, during the day of the debate, was contemplating on what he was going to eat for breakfast or you know which golf course he wanted to play golf at that day, joe biden was still running the country and he was tired. this started at 9:00 p.m. at night. i get it. he is 80. you know, i get it. he was tired. probably they should have done it earlier, but 9:00 was late. or maybe they should have given him some downtime, because right now as you know, the world is a little chaotic and he is still the ceo of the united states of america. on top of that we are also, as the citizens that will be electing who the next president is, think about this as would you get rid of your stock because you had a bad quarter with the ceo? would you ask the ceo to step

down because you had a bad quarter or half year, two quarters, or even a full year? i think the answer to that is no. so this sort of over exuberance by the populace. especially democrats. automatically asking for joe biden to step down. i think you have to look at what he has accomplished in the 3 1/2 years he has been president and say if he is president and he would be running against donald trump, who is clearly the right choice to take us from 2024 to 2028? and that is an easy answer. it is biden/harris. >> you had said and maybe i will make this offer right now that in preparation for the next debate, they had some very good people. bob bauer, helping the president prepare. you offered your services when e you and i were talking the other day and i think i should point it out because when i

mentioned that to a few people they said that's not a bad idea. maybe they should have amichae cohen in there, because you felt -- and joe biden doesn't talk like you do -- but you felt there were opportunities for joe biden not simply to prove he's a good president or has been a good president and has the public interest at mind, but to remind people exactly who donald trump is. what would you suggest? putting aside the energy and the tiredness, what would you suggest joe biden does in the next debate to remind people, and more importantly, put donald trump on the defensive? >> so, the from the very first question i would've come at donald trump with facts. something donald trump knows nothing about. there was not even on my new shut of facts and anything that trump says. he spews all sorts of nonsense and what you need to do is constantly remind the viewer that what donald trump is saying

is a lie. that it is inaccurate. that it only exists between his ears, in that space called trump land and his maga supporters. it is just not true. you need to, of course, from the very first question, you want to come out and you want to remind exactly the way you and so many other moderators or, you know, journalists describe donald trump. the twice impeached base i am running against a twice impeached, for time indicted, criminal felon on 34 counts of fraud who has bankrupted his company seven times. it is also not just what you say, it is also how you say it. there is a specific way that you have to say things to donald trump in order to get under his skin and that is what joe biden needed to do.

in this debate he allowed donald to get very comfortable. in fact, they didn't talk about the 34 criminal convictions until minute 45 of a 90 minute debate. i would have come straight out and i would have started to talk about his criminal convictions. i would have talked about all of the things. 35,000 lies that this man, my opponent, has told you, the american people. from covid to roe v. wade to climate change and everything in between. this man has lied to you, the american public, 35,000 times. you will not hear a single thing of truth emanating from this man's hole underneath his nose. you will not hear a single truth during this entire debateu

and i want you to remember that when he is answering these questions. you come out and you swing and you swing hard. >> michael, thank you for joining us this morning. michael cohen is a former personal attorney to donald trump. he is the author of revenge, how donald trump weaponized the department of justice against his critics. and disloyal, a memoir. he is the host of the political beat down podcast. coming up, congresswoman jasmine crockett will share her thoughts on biden's fitness as a candidate, but as you might imagine she has thoughts about donald trump's fitness, too. we also cut through the whisper campaigns about democrats replacing biden to talk to a true expert in democratic politics about what is likely or even possible at this stage. i hinted who that expert is. she is coming up very soon. after the break i will be joined by the one and only symone sanders-townsend, cohost of msnbc's the weekend.

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president joe biden is facing new calls from important voices to step aside after thursday's debate performance. yesterday the new york times editorial board published in this piece titled to serve his country, president biden should leave the race. it reads in part, mr. biden answered an urgent question on thursday night. it was not the answer he and his supporters were hoping for. but if the risk of a second trump term is as great as he says it is, then his dedication to this country leaves him and his party only one choice. the clearest path for democrats to defeat a candidate to find by his lies is to deal truthfully with the american public. acknowledge that mr. biden can't continue his race and create a process to select

someone more capable to stand in his place. other media outlets published similar pieces in the wake of the debate. the headline from the economist editorial board is joe biden should now give way to an alternative candidate. the atlantic read, time to go, joe. the wall street journal headline, this can't continue. the financial times, it's not too late for joe biden to go. clearly thursday's debate left americans reeling, wondering what the best path forward is for the democratic party. as doubts about biden's fitness to serve another term hit this fever pitch, democrats by and large are sticking with the president. >> what you make of democrats calling for biden to step down? >> i don't know who's doing that. >> after the debate performance last night should he step aside? >> we should stay the course. we should focus on the biden record. focus on substance.

we have a workforce on behalf of the american people. >> and yesterday vice president kamala harris also showed her support for president biden. >> the president said himself, it was not his best performance. we believe in our president, joe biden, and we believe in what he stands for. listen, we've got 130 days. i'm counting, until election day. 130 days and this race will not be decided by one night in june. >> okay, my colleague and friend symone sanders-townsend, she previously served as senior advisor and chief spokesperson for vice president kamala harris. she is the author of no, you shut up, speaking truth to power and reclaiming america. i have to keep talking about your book because that is the best title i've ever seen and

of course you know her as one of the cohosts of the program the weekend, right before us on msnbc. good morning, my friend. good to see you again. i need to talk to you because everybody lost their mind about this whole thing. i'm not taking a view on whether the right thing for joe biden to decide to do is step aside or not, but i do need a sane, quiet voice to help us in a sober way think through what the options are. there are probably about three of them right now. you keep biden as a candidate. you let kamala harris take the top of the ticket and some one else becomes the bottom of the ticket or you do something else entirely and look for a third way. what is your take? >> i will just respond by explaining what the process is. you named all the headlines about joe biden should step aside and let me explain the process for folks. because of the way we elect candidates in this country and we choose presidents, the party committees, the democratic national committee and republican national committee,

they shepherd the process for electing presidential candidates in this country for their respective parties. in the primary process, right, before conventions, republicans and democrats have to go through and they have to win states and whatnot because they are winning delegates and you need to reach a certain number of delegates to be named the nominee of your respective party. right now for the republican party process, donald trump is referred to as the presumptive nominee. he is the nominee for the republicans, given the number of delegates that he won in the republican party primary process. there was not an active primary process on the democratic side this cycle and joe biden, though, still had to go through and win delegates. every state held their primaries and in those primaries joe biden won the delegates. why am i going through and saying this? because if someone wants to knock joe biden off the ballot.

there democrats out there that say we just need somebody else. what they would have to do is amass a certain number of delegates in order to do that. there are over 4000 delegates for the democrats. you need over 2300 to be the democratic nominee. joe biden has over 3600. those are folks that because of the way the nominating process works in the democratic party and because he won the states, those are pledged delegates that are pledged and allocated to joe biden. the only way those delegates will no longer be pledged to joe biden is of joe biden himself releases them. the other way one could argue as if someone runs a very active whip operation to ask those delegates to forgo the oath that they made, to essentially do, frankly, what republicans were asking the fake electors to do. go against what the people voted for and support someone else. there is not, to my knowledge, and active whip operation happening. now what about the unpledged

delegates? what about the superdelegates? there are about 744 superdelegates who can vote for whoever they want to. there are not enough superdelegates, though, to pick a new nominee. factually in terms of how the process works, there is not some secret scenario where people can scheme and bumped joe biden off the ticket and automatically give it to somebody else. the only way in which joe biden is not the nominee is if he says he doesn't want to be one. >> so ultimately this is joe biden's decision? >> yes. >> so is there an active thing under way in which people are having that discussion with him, as far as you know? >> as far as i know, no. anita dunn joined our show this morning. she is a senior advisor and strategist for the president. i asked her directly. i said did you all have conversations about joe biden stepping down and not running for reelection? were those conversations on the table? she said the conversations they had were about how they move forward and how they recover.

that is what she told us on the record. many of the biden folks also told me privately that was not on the table. >> so let me ask you then, because you are a strategist. you had done this before. what does the road forward look like? i think a lot of people in deep panic are wanting to know what that road forward looks like. and atlantic piece that was published i think less than an hour ago, it was titled calls for biden's withdrawals are the sign of a healthy democratic party. the piece points out the democrats willingness to question biden or consider the possibility is a good sign. it's not saying that biden needs to go. it is saying that these are conversations that should be had. do you agree with that? >> this is the former strategist in me talking. i think there is always a time and place for conversations, but questioning if joe biden should be on the ballot right now by people who know better. i'm not talking about voters

and regular folks. i'm talking about, again, leaders and strategists. leaders within the democratic party, elected officials. those people know what i just described to you when we started this segment. they know the math and they know the numbers. that is not actually an honest conversation. i think that is what frustrates me sometimes, because i know the rules. i know the facts and i do know better and i know people who know better. it is not honest to say people are talking about getting him off the ticket. are they? or are you disappointed in the debate performance of your candidate and you are scared that you don't think you will be donald trump? i think it is the latter and i think people should be honest about what is really going on. >> right, i think that is exactly correct. symone, thank you my friend. i appreciate you sticking around. symone sanders-townsend is a former senior advisor and

spokesperson for vice president kamala harris. she is the cohost of the weekend every saturday and sunday morning from 8:00 to 10:00 a.m. easter night here on msnbc. another programming note. nancy pelosi will join my colleague jen psaki tomorrow at noon eastern, immediately after "velshi" tomorrow on msnbc. up next, one of project 2025's most dangerous goals. how the supreme court overturning the chevron doctrine yesterday advances the far right's plan to dismantle the federal government. (♪♪) try dietary supplements from voltaren, for healthy joints.

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this long-standing principal required courts to defer to federal agencies own interpretation of laws that they administer in the case of ambiguities or questions about enforcement of laws. now this is just sensible. it is how functioning governments work. congress or a legislature cannot possibly anticipate every question that might arise about any given law that is passed, so typically, and again, not just in america, it is all over the world and working democracies. the legislature typically delegates that sort of authority and enforcement to experts at the federal agencies who actually administer the law. for example, the scientists at the environmental protection agency or the public health officials at the cdc, specialists in their respective fields who can interpret complex regulatory matters. now friday's landmark ruling shifts the final say on ambiguity and federal laws from the experts to unelected judges

at the federal level, potentially including those on the conservative super majority of the u.s. supreme court. now the ruling, which was split along ideological lines, 6-3, is a major win for the conservative push to weaken federal agencies. it is often termed the war on the administrative state. this effort seeks to dismantle the regulatory framework that oversees crucial aspects of your life. and of business. from education to the environment to food safety to healthcare. this effort by conservatives is detrimental to democracy because regulatory oversight by specialized agencies serves as a critical defense against predatory practices by companies and industries. it helps stave off the corrupting influence that money and privilege have in american politics. you may have limited interaction with congress and your elected officials. the decisions made by these

government agencies shape many aspects of your life, your health, and your money. friday's ruling effectively undermines both the legislative and executive branches of government by prioritizing judicial judgments over agency expertise and in doing so it diminishes congress's ability to legislate effectively by delegating to these agencies. the winners of this ruling, make no mistake about it, are likely to be large corporations. the ruling also provides a significant boost to project 2025, the conservative blueprint for the first 180 days of a potential second trump term, which takes direct aim at the so-called administrative state. several times in the 920 pages. project 2025 aims to dismantle democratic institutions by purging the executive branch of career civil servants and replacing them with conservative ideologues whose loyalties lie with the president, presumably a future

president trump. quote, the administrative state is often at odds with conservative thought, even under conservative leadership. unless conservatives take a firm hand to the bureaucracy and marshal its power, nothing will stop the bureaucracies anti-free-market leftist march. there are many tools to bring the administrative state to heal and in the process defund the woke culture warriors who have infiltrated every last institution in america. our goal is to assemble an army of trained and prepared conservatives to go to work on day one to deconstruct the administrative state, and quote. that's what you've got to read project 2025. it is full of gems like this. thanks to the supreme court on friday morning while everyone was talking about the debate, project 2025's agenda has a

significant head start. positioning conservatives to pursue their plan of restructuring governments and diminishing the role of federal agencies. the losers in the shift are the millions of ordinary americans who benefit from regulatory protections. we all hear that regulation is bad, but regulation is the thing that make sure that the restaurants fridges kept at a certain temperature. it make sure that there is not lead in the paint in your house. when we come back i will be joined by two very smart lawyers to help us unpack all of this, one of whom is calling this the biggest supreme court power grab since 1803. that is next on "velshi". i thought i'd buy stilts. being so tall definitely has its advantages. oh whoa. here you go, kiddo. thanks. hi honey ready to go? yup. there it is, there it is... ahhh...here we go.

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the chevron doctrine, which now limits the power of federal agencies. for more on the consequences of this ruling i'm joined by jody freeman, professor at harvard law school specializing in environmental and administrative law. also the founder and director of harvard's environmental law and energy program. also a former litigator and columnist and justice correspondent for the nation. plus the author of the book, allow me to retort, a black guys guide to the constitution. good morning and thank you for being here. i want to put this in context because i was a little upset on friday morning that despite everyone talking about the debate, certainly not an unimportant matter, this ruling, one of the most important rulings to come down from the supreme court. mondays may be more important about immunity, but i don't know if that is true. government works because legislators delegate authority to a civil service made up of career people, non-politicized people and experts to execute

the laws that a legislature passes. this fundamentally guts that process. >> yeah, this is more important than immunity because it changes the fundamental structure of american government and it takes power directly away from the people and puts it in the hand of unelected judges. we talk about this as executive agency power, but understand what those legal jargon terms mean. the president of the united states, who we all get to vote for, gets to place the heads of these executive agencies, whose job constitutionally speaking is to enforce laws passed by congress. this ruling on friday says that no matter who we elect for president, no matter what agency heads and policies he puts in, no matter what congress says, that the enforcement power that is given to the president has been taken

away and given to the supreme court. the supreme court is now the body, the supreme court nobody gets to vote for is now the body in charge of enforcing laws passed by congress, so when congress says there should be clean water, guess who gets to decide what the word clean means in that context? that is now the supreme court, not the scientists at the epa. >> right, i want a scientist determining that. this is the point. the problem is, this is the consequence of carrying on -- it's not even that, that's a recent development. this started with reagan, you know, saying many decades ago that the era of big government is over. it has been an attack on

government. you can argue there are too many civil servants. you can argue there are regulations that should not be there that are inefficient, but we've gotten carried away with this whole thing and we have simply decided that the administrative state, the regulatory state, is a bad thing. without the regulatory state i would have diarrhea every day because i would be eating spoiled milk. i would be sick from paint that had lead in it. my life would be of disaster if someone didn't administer the rules -- >> let me put this in context. congress basically tells the administrative agencies. the securities exchange commission, environmental protection agency, the food and drug administration. it says to them, do these jobs for us. protect investors from fraud. make sure there is clean air and clean water. make sure the drug and food supply is safe, right? then it says you figure out on a day-to-day basis how to accomplish those goals, implement the statutes and enforce them against violators. this decision which overturns as you say the chevron

principal is really about shifting the benefit of the doubt. it used to be for 40 years now that the benefit of the doubt goes to the agency. whenever congress was not perfectly clear and there is an ambiguity or gap in the law, the agency gets the first kick of the can to decide what would congress have wanted here? what is the best way to interpret it? what the supreme court has done is throw away decades of precedent and say no benefit of the doubt to the expert agency. rather, we, the court, will decide in every instance what every word of the statute means and they can do that in a way that cuts back on regulation and makes it harder for the agency to act. one more thing i would add, this case is not alone. there are a series of cases that the supreme court has been deciding. excuse me, that the court has been deciding. at every stage of the regulatory process, adopting rules, implementing those rules and enforcing them and assessing penalties. at every stage the court has cut back on the ability of the

agencies to do that, so you have to look at the set of cases this term, all of which limit agency power, make it harder to regulate and in a way it disrespects both the congress and executive branch, amassing power for the court itself. >> you have to ask why they are doing that, right? >> go ahead. >> you have to ask why they are doing that, because it is not like the supreme court is stupid. they know what kind of world they are trying to have, right? with this ruling on friday the supreme court has set itself up to not only have this massive power grab, right? it also can use it only at its own discretion, which means if there is a regulation that the supreme court likes, that the conservatives on the supreme court likes, that regulation will be upheld. if there's a regulation the conservatives on the supreme court don't like, that regulation will be thrown out. so there is no power for the people to choose for themselves

what laws we want to live under because the supreme court has taken that power for itself and at a very granular level. i know that a lot of twitter lawyer type people are like it just gives congress more people. you want to have the conversation with me about what marjorie taylor greene thinks and knows about how many particulates of lead are allowed to be in the water before it hurts a child's developmental process? do you think she can even understand the words that just came out of my mouth, much less write a piece of legislation that solves that issue? as much as i like voting for congress, let's not pretend like congress is always on top of the ball of all of these situations. that is why we give the experts, the scientists, the regulators, the opportunity to fill out the gaps in legislation.

>> here is what i would add. >> go ahead. >> i was going to add to this, what this does is it throws the state of affairs into chaos. the supreme court does this. it upsets precedent. it throws out decades of established law and says, guess what? things are changing and what this case means is that now in all of the lower federal courts, you have 850 federal judges in the country. they will say we no longer defer to the expert agencies. in every case we will open our dictionaries and looked at our textual list arguments to determine with these very technical statutory terms mean. it will mean you have an invitation to litigate, to challenge what agencies do every day on a more regular basis. it will invite lots of litigation, lots of disruption. my point is that is not just bad for the american public that is protected by these laws and needs them implemented, it is bad for business, because business relies on a steady,

stable state. it needs clear and steady regulation from agencies to do business. so i think the chaos that the court is sowing is bad for the economy, bad for society, bad for business and they seem to have a total lack of humility. their view is we can decide everything. we don't need to defer to these agencies, we don't need them very much and we are going to be able to sort this out. the supreme court only decides about 80 cases a year, so guess will be deciding? a bunch of lower court judges, increasingly conservative judiciary. so this does benefit, i would project on average it benefits those who oppose regulation. those who want to jam the process. those who think these are bureaucrats that overreach. that's the sort of stuff you hear all the time. instead of a more balanced picture which is the people who work in these agencies get up every day and try to make sure the food and drug supply is

safe and planes land and trains don't get this railed. they do the business and work of the american people who take all of this for granted when we drink clean water and you have to understand there is a basic amount of federal regulations necessary for a modern society and economy to operate. >> that is exactly right. i can talk to about this for hours. i'm so grateful to you both. and i apologize for discussing diarrhea this morning. she is a founder and director of harvard's environmental law program. elie mystal is a columnist and justice corresponded from the nation and author of the book, allow me to retort, a black guys guide to the constitution. we will be right back. back. ac? boring does. boring makes vacations happen, early retirements possible, and startups start up. because it's smart, dependable, and steady. all words you want from your bank. for nearly 160 years, pnc bank has been brilliantly boring

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with less than five months until the 2024 election, america seems to be at a crossroads. after a dismal presidential debate this week, any americans are now calling for one of the candidates to step aside and it is not the convicted felon who actively attempted to overthrow democracy. while there is a lot of noise about president biden's ability to win in november, the democratic leadership in congress so far is sticking by biden. after a quick break i will speak to democratic congressman jasmine crockett of texas. stay with us. us.

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i don't walk as easy as it used to. i don't speak as smoothly as i used to. i don't debate as well as i used to. i give you my word is a biden i would not be running again if i did not believe with all my heart and soul i could do this job. >> that was president biden at a rally yesterday in north carolina, one day after a disastrous performance at the first presidential debate on thursday. joining me now is democratic congresswoman jasmine crockett from texas, a member of the house agriculture and house oversight and accountability committees. congresswoman crockett, thank you for being with us. i don't know, i'm not smart enough to know and i'm not a decision-maker. i am a voter like everyone else. i'm not sure what the right thing to do is about that debate. i am sure that a bad debate performance by an 80-year-old guy who has given a lot of time to this country, who is not convicted of anything. who generally is not thought of

as a person who lies. who is a compassionate, empathetic being in the face of the opposition of donald trump, is a no-brainer. so everybody needs to slow their role for a minute while we think about what the next steps are. >> it is so wild to me and it has been quite annoying if i am going to be perfectly honest, that democrats get into a frenzy. it is almost like we are scared of our shadow sometimes, right? i think it is because we understand the stakes and everybody saying we have to have the best of the best and let me tell you something. there is no better heart, there is no better man and honestly when it comes down -- that has never been who joe biden has been. i think that obama hurt us a little bit and lord knows i love him, but we got used to this amazing orator. then you have trump, he is not amazing whatsoever, but he

knows how to keep talking and he will say anything. one of the things that was so frustrating to me when i saw this debate in atlanta was this fool tried to take credit for insulin prices. i was like that was the perfect opportunity. he obviously is senile, because he is now trying to take credit for my legislation. i would have double dog dared him to tell me what bill that came out of. you know, this guy is crazy. he's evil and then when i listened to the segment before and you are talking about really issues as it relates to project 2025, because they do want to install loyalists. they don't want government workers like my mama, who has always worked for the federal government as long as i could remember. the people who have the institutional knowledge to make sure they can carry our country forward and they work under whichever administration, democratic or republican. they don't swear the loyalty to and orange jesus.

instead they swear loyalty to the people of this country and our constitution and that is the problem that we are running into. so i don't really care if he was off for 90 minutes and did not put on my people want him to put on. the reality is that he has 50,000 times better than trump and republicans will not leave trump and he has 34 felony convictions. and still got -- >> you make an interesting point. joe biden has never been a masterful or greater and has never been a particularly strong debater. it is not his strength. that said, donald trump is a remarkably useful idiot for the far right and project 25 -- 2025. the heritage foundation and the super conservative establishment in this country have found their tool. if he gets elected, because generally speaking he doesn't

read policy, certainly doesn't write policy, so they have given him the policy. here's the problem a lot of people have identified that are not pearl clutching about this. what is the best way to move forward and defeat donald trump in the next election and how do you convince voters who became very skeptical on thursday night that this is still the path forward? >> here's the reality. we have two choices. you can either go with donald trump, who gave us a supreme court that is continuing to do harm. who absolutely plans to put additional supreme court justices on the bench, as well as install other idiotic judges. judges. mechanic, such as in texas, who handled the mifepristone case, if that is the america you want, absolutely go and vote for donald trump. if you want to vote for america where repro is a reality, if you want a reality where you