>> i'm always >> i'm always so grateful to all of you spent part of your sundays and mondays with us. and soon, you're going to get a chance to join our conversation in person. you can join me and several of my colleagues in brooklyn, new york, for our first msnbc live event. it's called msnbc live democracy 2024. we will get the chance to hear from you. you can buy tickets for the event at msnbc.com/democracy 2024. i look forward to seeing you there. stay right with you are, because it is much more news

coming up on msnbc. this hour, three editorials, two asking president biden to end his president biden to end his campaign for president and the +xq) telling former president donald trump to bow out. which chorus will sing the loudest in the days to come? in minutes, we are talking with jen psaki. plus, the questions about new unusual artwork on the walls of capitol hill. the message most americans want to see. >> good day to all of you from msnbc world headquarters in new york. we begin with new fallout from the first presidential debate between donald trump and president joe biden. the atlanta journal- constitution editorial board now calling on president biden to pass the torch.

while the philadelphia inquirer editorial board says, to serve his country, trump should leave the race.■ç today, president biden is at camp david for some previously scheduled family time. msnbc is reporting the future of his election campaign will be a new item on the family agenda. surrogates for both candidates to the sunday talk shows with senator chris noting that calls for writing to step aside are coming from editorial boards . >> not one single senior democrat, there's not a single governor, there's not a single senator. obviously, his vice president who endorses him it's a written, i will remind you, donald trump's biggest distinction is the views of those closest to him. don't take my word for it. donald trump's own vice president, chief of staff, and national security advisor■ç all refused to support him. it would be an incredible insult to democratic voters to

have this primary process that was effectively rigged in favor of joe biden. and in the last minute, when joe biden has a disastrous performance, try to switch them out. >> meanwhile, the campaign says it raised over $33 million since thursday, including $26 million from what officials say are grassroots donations. tomorrow, the supreme court is expected to deliver its ruling on trump's claims of absolute immunity on charges related to his actions on january 6. both sites today weighing in ahead of that decision. >> the democrats keep calling president trump a felon. be careful what you wish for. i expect there will be investigations of bidens criminality at ■çthe border. i should be worried that somebody is going to come after you, because you abuse the parole statute. >> america is not a monarchy. we are not in autocracy. we don't have kings or rulers or dictators. in a democracy, one principle

should be clear -- no one is above the law. that includes presidents and former presidents, and it certainly includes donald trump. >> also tomorrow, trump ally steve bannon goes to prison for defying the subpoena from the january 6th committee. is going out to aaron gilchrist, it was good to see you in the studio yesterday, but now you are there where you should be, because i want to know what the biden campaign is doing to navigate the growing post debate fallout.■ç >> well, the biden campaign is dug in. it's highlighting the support for president biden that it says is still clearly in existence. just this morning, the campaign said it raised $33 million since thursday, mostly from grassroots donations. president biden is at camp david with his family today, and there is still this major focus on his debate performance and just how much it could impact this campaign and his

standing with his own party. >> president biden attending fundraising events in new york and new jersey sunday, doing post may damage control, saying he can voted undecided voters, promising, were going to win this election. the democratic national committee held a virtual check the biden campaign. in public, the ■çcampaign makin clear he is staying in the race. dominant democrats making a full court press. >> the president above all is focused on what we do next? what do i need to go do? >> the people are galvanizing and supporting biden. >> i know a lot of conversation right now is about a debate performance. can we please talk a little bit about presidential performance? >> the pressure mounting after the voters saw two different sides on thursday night. >> it's going to be dealing with everything we have to deal with -- look -- if we finally

beat medicare -- >> on on the rally stage on north carolina on friday. >> i'm letting millions of ■ç americans know. when you get knocked down, you get back up. >> a one-day poll conducted in the hours after the debate showing 60% of voters think biden should be replaced as a democratic candidate. the new york times editorial board out friday with a blistering call for biden to whit, writing the greatest public service and mr. biden can outperform is to announce that he will not continue to run for election. the first lady, an unofficial adviser and presidents fearless adviser, say they will not let 90 minutes defined his tenure as president. >> there is no one that i would rather have sitting in the oval office right now and my husband.

>> reporter: >> reporter: they also point ■ç some snap polling of voters in the days after the debate, saying that they suggest that receptions of voters don't really match what we are hearing from the punditry, that the debate didn't actually change the race here. at the same time, jamie raskin said this morning on this network, alex, that there are serious conversations taking place at every level of the democratic already right now. >> 100%. thank you very much, aaron gilchrist. in the meantime, let's bring in jen psaki, warmer biden white house press secretary. good to see you, my friend. the new york times had this new report. it was 48 hours to fix a 90 minute mess. inside the postdebate frenzy. as a former insider, can you try to describe the damage ■ç control effort they're likely going on behind the scenes, and with the white house and the

campaign be working together on this, or taking separate approaches? >> well, there's limitations, legally, which may follow, how quaint is that given the trump certainly does not follow those? when i read the story, i thought, this is what you would be doing on a campaign. when you are knocked down, will you have to do is hold the hands of your supporters. you have to do extensive outreach to donors, to members of congress, to interest groups, and you have to project strength. that is what they are doing by trying to put out these fundraising numbers, putting out even details like three times as many people have applied for jobs. they are trying to tell people,% he is still in it, guys. and you are seeing a circling of the wagons around him from his closest advisers. there's also complaints the people didn't hear from them early enough there wasn't enough outreach. they have to continue to do more and more of it. what you saw in that story i think what is clear they are doing, is kind of doing

everything they can to reach out to people and convey to them, joe biden is planning to stay in the race. if so people are responding. they have to project that strength to try to keep people with them. it's going to be a rocky road. >> it's not going to be easy, because the issue is his age, about which he can do absolutely nothing. you look at the chronology. it is what it is. >> that is true. that's been a concern that shows up in polls from the beginning. trump is three years younger. i think the problem with the debate is that it ■çkind of reaffirmed some things that people may have feared out there. what we've seen to date so far, there was a cbs news poll that i think if you are them, you are concerned about, because it showed nearly a 10 point jump in the percentage of voters who think he's not up to being president. that's not a good number. you need that number to come down, of course. but so far, head-to-head numbers, state-by-state numbers, voters have not conveyed that they are running

away from joe biden. if you are sitting at the campaign, you're going to look at daily tracking polls, you are looking at fundraising, volunteers, what kind of incoming calls you are getting. that's what you are looking at day-to-day. there's no question there in a version of crisis mode right now, trying to hold the coalition together. >> i'm glad you bring up that pole, because there should be a caveat with@oreporting on this pole. this was done in the two days following the debate with any sort of event that offer something like a seismic shift or some awareness. you want a little more time before you look at these numbers as being concrete. you want everything to sort of settle in. it is a snapshot view, i'm not denying that. but another seven days from now might have a little more accurate -- >> i would add, it didn't test donald trump. there are a lot of voters who watch the debate and didn't love what they had to see. they hated what they had to see about him. if you are the biden campaign,

you are looking at the road to 70. there's still lots of questions. you are looking at voters and the head-to-head's in those states, and you know, that's the thing. it's only a couple of ■çdays since the debate. they haven't seen problematic members in those dates quite yet. >> but, they have seen the atlanta general constitution general board joining the new york times editorial board calling for president biden to step aside. you have the philadelphia inquirer. it's also noticeable, these are major papers and critical states of georgia and pennsylvania. so what was it about the debate that instigated such public outcry? you mentioned something we've been talking about, whispering, or talking more overtly area the public outcry has been deafening. joe biden has been facing questions about his age throughout, donald trump has faced questions about hikñ warped perception of truth and reality for years. >> that's true.

if you watch the last 20 minutes of the debate, donald trump had some crazy things to ç say. and joe biden, he was a different joe biden then showed up on the debate stage. even though the viewership numbers were relatively low, can you drink a little over 40 million, still a lot of people who watched it. i think they are fully aware of that. i will say, with all due act to the new york times, my bet is the campaign is printing those out and posting them around the headquarters is motivation. it is not in their view, especially the new york times, representative of the voters view. it's representative of the editorial board of the new york times. it's much more concerning to them if you see voters in georgia and wisconsin, in pennsylvania, and outcry running from joe biden. they are not seeing that at this point. i don't think they actually care ■ebout the editorial board >> okay. what about the damage control? it has extended across the country.

of the dnc holding a conference call yesterday with members and also campaign officials. what are you hearing about that conversation? >> i think what they are trying to do is reach out to people and remind people. in the reporting, with the campaign officials are saying is a version of what the vice residence that the night of the debate, which is, slow start, better finish. that was a bad debate. it was in a good performance. but he has a great record to run on. that seems to be their argument. i think it's important that they are acknowledging. no one who watched with their eyes thought that was a good performance. no one should ■"e good performance, because that's not credible. i think their best argument here is about voters and the response from voters. we are going to see over the next couple of days ways how that looks. but there is good data points for them, that they raised a bunch of money, that they do have volunteers, that they haven't seen in these key states. it's going to be six states.

they haven't seen voters run from joe biden. i talked to molly murphy earlier about the dials during the debate. they seem concerned about a number of donald trump comments during that debate. he also talked about issues people care about, and issues in a way that is aligned with most of the american public. donald trump had some crazy things to say during that debate. we can't all project upon the american public what they think. we don't know what they think until they tell us what they think. >> you are right.■ç i was watching your show, i heard you talk about the what if scenarios and a call for an open convention. would anything like that have been discussed yesterday? would someone had made that comment, and then you members of the ds be having to do that? we are not talking about that right now. we are talking about getting joe biden elected. >> i can't imagine anyone from the campaign raises that. i think dnc members might raise

that. i think what's important for people to understand, there's lots of discussions and debates and conversations, as i think congressman raskin said earlier today. that is happening out there. an open convention or a brokered convention is not as neat and easy path, because it is just a couple thousand delegates deciding -- not the american public, who the nominee would be. ■ç and then there's the other factor. he is staying in the race. there's no indication that he's not. but what he not endorse his vice president? if he didn't, that would be pretty seismic, right? he endorses his vice president. this president clinton endorser? does brock obama endorser? does everybody still stay out of it? is it still divided? and who is spit out of that process may not be who people watching at home he wanted to be. and it's done by 4000 -- a couple thousand delegates. i think the point people need

to understand is, it's not a west wing episode. there is a just an easy and smooth path, and make a decision. maybe that's to what they want to happen, and that is their choice, but it's not an easy and being. >> one more ?duqáurjrabout the second debate scheduled for september 10th. that is less than two months before election day. president biden says he is -- is the risk of a second bad performance worth the potential gain? could a strong debate effectively blunt the memories of the one we saw thursday? >> i think if you are the biden team, you have to do the second debate. i'm skeptical donald trump will do a second debate. but i think if you are the biden team, you got to do everything. not everything. you have to be selective about it. but a debate, certainly, you should do. >> okay. jen psaki. if you want to be on the show at the start of every single sunday, you certainly can. >> i love talking to you, alex.

>> thank you so ■çmuch. for all of you, we invite you to watch inside with jen psaki sundays at noon and mondays at 11:00 eastern. the nation's first hurricane is making its way. hurricane beryl, just reaching now a category four. it is expected to reach the windward islands early monday morning. it's the earliest category four on record and the strongest storm ever to hit the windward islands. that hurricane is expected to bring life-threatening conditions, occluding 100 mile an hour winds and severe storm surge. early tomorrow, a hurricane warning is in effect for barbados, saint lucian, st. vincent, grenada, and tobago. we will keep watch on that one. by this time tomorrow we may finally have the answer to a question legal experts have been asking for months ■çnow. we are back in 90 seconds. all in one. to those with migraine, i see you.

for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. don't take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. it's time we all shine. talk to a healthcare provider about nurtec odt from pfizer.

only purple's gel flex grid passes the raw egg test. talno other mattress cradlesr your body and simultaneously supports your spine. memory foam doesn't come close. get your best sleep guaranteed. save up to $800 during our 4th of july sale. visit purple.com or a store near you >> tomorrow, we >> tomorrow, we expect a landmark supreme court decision that could turn at ■çleast one donald trump's pending criminal trials upside down. on monday, the nation's highest court is poised to rule in the trump immunity case, which will determine if or to what extent trump is shielded from criminal liability in the federal election interference case. joining me now, nbc news justice reporter and office of sedition hunters -- how january 6th broke the justice system.

welcome. look, much as been made of how long it has taken for this court to rule on this. is that an indication of what the ruling would be? >> just the fact that it has been delayed is already this humongous win for donald trump. this is sort of determining that, if donald trump loses, is are still going to be a trial? i think is what the most likely scenario that happens here is. you might have this idea of many trials happening before the election, meaning theru'" going to be hearings on potential -- on what exactly qualifies as an official act. that's one of the questions of the justices were looking very carefully at during the course of oral arguments, deciding what acts would be considered actions that he took as president or what would be considered actions but he took on behalf of this campaign on behalf of himself. i think that is something that is going to ultimately -- potentially make its way back to the judge. all of this really depends on what happens with the election. if donald trump is elected, these trials aren't going to

happen. that's just the facts. he's going to order people at the justice department to shut this down. that's what's going to happen. november is really what determines what will ultimately happen with this trial. ■ç >> prior to the potential of donald trump getting elected and being able to manipulate things in the doj, how quickly to the effect of this ruling go into effect? >> it would be pretty quickly. the biggest thing that there's a caveat for, is whether or not -- a sickly, how they are going to instruct the judge to handle this. there is theoretically the potential that they could come back and say, okay, he has blanket immunity. very, very likely. the more likely scenario is probably going to be deciding what exactly those official acts were. she had these 88 days remaining on the original calendar before the trial was supposed to start. when this all started when donald trump was indicted in august of 2023, there was a seventh month preparation trial.

so before this went to trial -- it was supposed to go and ■çmar originally. that's how much preparation she gave him. because the appeal has been put on pause, there are 88 days left. what the supreme court is likely to do is instruct the court to decide some of these questions of official acts, which then might add a little bit more time on this in addition to these 88 days appear trial prep. you know, very unlikely, certainly not happening before the election, but i could see a world in which the judge says, okay, we are setting a trial date for late november, potentially early december, or even somewhere around the anniversary of january 6th. that was originally what they had proposed. you know, this was supposed to happen last january originally, but that was put on pause. a lot of things up in the air. we will all be watching closely

>> the georgia election interference case -- with this ruling have any bearing on that? >> it could, potentially. but i think this is dealing more with the question of immunity directly, rather. so of course, there's always the federal case against him in florida. they put that aside because the judge has delayed that so much. i think the immediate impact of that will have repercussions of across the board. but you know, those are state cases, so it's a little bit of a different legal analysis. >> you have written a couple of new articles on recent supreme court decisions that sided with the january 6th rioters, challenging their obstruction charges. you said that the ruling is expected to ripple through writer's cases, but not necessarily trump's . why is vhqññ >> there's two charges that this would've impacted. the two obstruction charges. the way the ruling came down means that this has to do the paperwork. all the charges a go forward

have to have some sort of connection to paperwork or legal documents. with donald trump's, the allegations in donald trump's case, it all has to do with documents. it has to do with those fake electorates. there is a very direct argument that this case would not be impacted i this obstruction charge. it is when you have this ripple effect, but primarily what i focused on, from talking to folks across the board who have been working on these january 6 cases on the defense side, on the government side, it's going to have the most impact on probably around 52 cases, 27 of whom involved individuals that are currently incarcerated. we could end up seeing in the coming weeks instances ■çwhere people are ordered out of prison until a lot of these issues are settled. we've already seen some legal filings in the immediate hours of that decision, trying to get their cases back to court to basically interpret what was said here. but i wasn't this end of january 6th investigation. i think that is something that the justice department is really emphasizing. it's not going to be this

absolute watershed. really, you are talking about a year and a half with the statute of limitations. it's going to take a little bit of resources, i think, from the continued effort, but it's not going to necessarily shut all the january 6 cases down. it will have sort of a more limited impact. >> thank you much.hñi we have breaking news about a teenager shot and killed by police. that story is next.■ç and something serious may be behind those itchy eyes. up to 50% of people with graves' could develop a different condition called thyroid eye disease, which should be treated by a different doctor. see an expert. find a t-e-d eye specialist at isitted.com i thought i was sleeping ok... but i was waking up so tired. then i tried new zzzquil sleep nasal strips. their four—point lift design opens my nose for maximum air flow. so, i breathe better. and we both sleep better.

and stay married. ♪♪ ♪♪ citi's industry leading global payments solutions help their clients move money around the world seamlessly in over 180 countries... and help a partner like the world food programme as they provide more than food to people in need. together, citi and the world food programme empower families across the globe. ♪♪ smile! you found it. the feeling of finding psoriasis can't filter out the real you. so go ahead, live unfiltered with the one and only sotyktu, a once-daily pill for moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, and the chance at clear or almost clear skin. it's like the feeling of finding you're so ready for your close-up. or finding you don't have to hide your skin just your background. once-daily sotyktu was proven better,

getting more people clearer skin than the leading pill. don't take if you're allergic to sotyktu; serious reactions can occur. sotyktu can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections, cancers including lymphoma, muscle problems, and changes in certain labs have occurred. tell your doctor if you have an infection, liver or kidney problems, high triglycerides, or had a vaccine or plan to. sotyktu is a tyk2 inhibitor. tyk2 is part of the jak family. it's not known if sotyktu has the same risks as jak inhibitors. find what plaque psoriasis has been hiding. there's only one sotyktu, so ask for it by name. so clearly you. sotyktu. she runs and plays like a puppy again. his #2s are perfect! he's a brand new dog, all in less than a year. when people switch their dog's food from kibble to the farmer's dog, they often say that it feels like magic. but there's no magic involved. (dog bark) it's simply fresh meat and vegetables, with all the nutrients dogs need— instead of dried pellets. just food made for the health of dogs. delivered in packs portioned for your dog.

it's amazing what real food can do. hi. i use febreze fade defy plug. and i use this. febreze has a microchip to control scent release so it smells first-day fresh for 50 days. 50 days!? and its refill reminder light means i'll never miss a day of freshness. ♪

>> >> breaking news, new body cam video of a police officer shooting and killing a 13-year- old boy in upstate ■çnew york. the video from the utica police department shows that teen being tackled to the ground after running from police. he points what appears to be a gun at police, prompting officers to fire a single shot. that weapon later proved to be a gun replica. as a warning to viewers, we are going to show some body cam footage and some of you might

find this quite disturbing. what more can you tell us, dana, about what led up to the shooting? >> this all began friday evening around 10:00, 18:00. investigating some recent armed robberies described as young asian males. the officers stopped these two young boys and said, hey, you are walking in the street, ■ç which is illegal. they said we want to stop you and pat you down just to make sure you have no weapons on you. that's where you see 13-year- old -- take off running. in the officers body cam video, they freeze that moment where they say he is carrying a gun. you see it right here on the screen. officers continue running. there are no shots fired in that moment. they continue running until both the officer and the boy are on the ground. you can see exactly where the gun is at that moment or where his hands are.

you just hear that single gunshot. now, there is another video circulating online. this is verified by nbc news, but we do not have permission to show it. you see that 13-year-old running with the officer be signed him. he trips, rolls, leader stands up, and then ■çthe officer towe him. you see it leave one punch being thrown, and then you see that second officer come around. he appears to kneel down and his back is for the camera, but you kind of see his arm quail back, and that's when that fatal shot is fired. and obviously, the neighbors that were watching this unfold are hysterical in that video. yesterday, the police department and the mayor's office held a press conference and several family members and community members were there. take a listen to what the mayor also said during that press conference yesterday. >> what happened yesterday evening in our community is an event that has become all too familiar and routine over and over and over again. we call this press conference p3

not just to explain and be completely transparent,■ç but t offer our condolences to the family, the community, and all involved. >> so it's important to note that the gun that was recovered at the scene turned out to be a replica. it is actually a pellet gun. the new york attorney general's office will now investigate whether the officers actions were justified, and the police department is also investigating defining whether those officers followed protocol. the officer identified as the one firing that fatal shot. he has been with the department for 6 years. alex. >> heartbreaking. okay. thank you so much. >> democratic panic, but where's the outrage about the other guy who's on that stage? we got some answers next.

this summer. snacking. just. got. serious. introducing new $3 footlong dippers. the world might not be ready for them... ...but at $3 a pop? your wallet definitely is.

>> there was >> there was that same kind of freak out, and i might even say

i had more difficulty than the president did, and here i am right now having this conversation. >> give any worries he can actually govern if he does win, for 4 more years? >> i don't. i watched them for the last four years and he is done incredibly great things. >> senator john fetterman there as top democrats tried to reassure voters after president biden's disastrous debate performance,■ç at least publicl there are no plans to ditch their nominee. with me now, don calloway, democratic strategist. along with republican strategist stu zindel per seo, both of whom are msnbc political analyst. good to see you guys. susan, the dnc is clearly looking to close ranks here, but how seriously are they taking the concerns about biden's performance. >> well, they have to take it very seriously, because when you see organizations like the

new york times come out with a call for biden to step aside, these are serious charges. are matters to consider. but that being said, there's a few dates that are on the calendar that i think we should take into consideration.■ç one, monday. that's when the supreme court comes down with their issue on immunity. now, it doesn't affect the race directly, but it's a big news day, and it may shift some of the focus. and of course, then the following week, there is donald trump's -- his sentence. thank you. he will be sentenced. and that is going to be a seismic event. so i would wait just a little bit longer, if i was teamed biden, before stepping away to see what the polling looks like, a b on the 12th, 13th, 14th. that is not to say that joe biden has serious, serious problems right now, but that being said, i'm not sure who

comes in and fills his shoes and gets the job done to beat ■ç donald trump in november. >> so don, susan brings this up, but i want to leave here with the philadelphia inquirer, which counted the new york times as was mentioned, and that goes in addition to calling for biden to step aside. the inquirer publishing its own editorial saint trump should leave the race. to be clear, the new york times editorial was mainly focused on the danger trump poses, and said biden would be its unequivocal pick if the choice is biden or trump. but the headline certainly was that biden needs to drop out. is there an assumption that trump, being unfit for office kind of goes without saying now ? but it actually needs saying now? >> we all know donald trump is unfit. and i think that the parallel headline■ç for as bad

joe biden's debate performance was, the parallel headline should be the donald trump did not let the truth come out of his mouth one time. we saw a man who continues to degrade women, continues to degrade immigrants, and anybody who he doesn't see as, you know, a wasp christian of the political genre. so i really think that the equal headline has to be the donald trump got up there for 90 minutes, and i don't know anything that he said that was true. so if that is a harbinger or indicator of being unfit, truthfulness equals fitness, the donald trump is not been it since he got on the political stage, and i think that is extremely important. from what i saw out of his performance, it was disheartening and unfortunate,ó we've had bad debate performances in the past. i think the ultimate take away for me is that is not joe biden's job or barack obama or even kamala harris's job to save us from what comes from a trump administration.

it's all of our job to get together and support the democratic nominee, whoever that may be, and i still expect that as of today and through november, it will be joe biden. >> i'm curious your take on all this, david. as a country become too desensitized to trump's lies and his incoherence? i mean, it's the norm for trump. it doesn't shock people anymore and therefore doesn't prompt as much outrage. as joe biden held to a higher standard than donald trump? >> i don't think he is held to a higher standard. i think donald trump's unfitness for office is baked in. and so the biden campaign must continue to remind voters about that. ■ç what we saw thursday night, the newsworthiness was around with the world saw on joe biden. what we saw in donald trump is what we saw every day. it reminds us that he's unfit. what we saw was somebody that left questions for the american people about their president. not the democratic candidate. they witnessed the american president, our president,

struggle for 90 minutes on stage, and they left with questions. and so that is where the democratic response now, the 72 hours or so, i think they've actually made it worse. i'm glad you played that fetterman clip, because there is something different about how fetterman handled it. fetterman put his medical case out in front of pennsylvania voters. fetterman discussed his medical condition. fetterman was open about that. this white house staff is ■ç saying, oh, there's nothing wrong. don't believe your eyes. they are gas lighting us and saying there's not actually a problem. there was a problem thursday night. maybe there's an answer to it. there's a question or an answer to his age or the way they manage the white house, or maybe he presents in different situations. those are the answers that will solve the heartburn that the american people left thursday night with to tell us that we are wrong is arrogant, it is disdainful, it is insulting. i think the white house staff right now is doing permanent damage.

joe biden lost ground thursday night. as the white house staff continues this kind of spin control, they are going to lose the race in november. we have to change course this week, and i do actually think they are going to realize that. >> in your analysis of the debate, you paraphrase former president bill linton■ç yang, quote, it can be better to be strong and wrong then week and right. was biden too focused on data, unprepared answers on the level of recitation it felt like, instead of simply delivering the passion the democrats were looking for? how much do viewers of a debate like that focus on optics over substance? >> you know, television is a medium in which the viewers see the candidates. they don't just listen or read about them. so i think that while he was over prepared probably with too much data, and told not to go off from the hip like he often does, we didn't see joe biden

as we know him. we saw no sense of humor, we saw no quick responses to things that donald trump put ■çout the. most importantly, what we did see was that joss lacking face with that blank stare, that that is what anyone who has a parent or grandparent has seen people get older, that is -- that was the concern, full stop. that's what me people say, oh, my god, joe biden.so old so fast. and that should be another concern of this white house, is, can they keep putting him out there, or is this the best he can be? i don't know the answer to that. but either way, they have to confront that and be really honest with themselves. if he is aging at a more rapid pace than people are thinking he is, come september, october, that is going to's bell really bad news for the campaign. >> despite all this focus, there's a viral moment mf@■the debate that came in donald trump accused immigrants of taking

black jobs. he then repeated it at his rally the next day. and then there was also a viral moment after the debate, biden greeting patrons at a waffle house in atlanta. the biden campaign is securing black voters. do you have a general sense of their debate takeaways? i know you say all the time that it is not a monolithic group. that said, give a general sense? >> the very general sense is that donald trump remains absurd is not a friend of black people. if you think immigrants are coming in to take, quote unquote, black jobs, and i would question what donald trump believes the role of black people in the workforce to be. he obviously believes that we are somehow agrarian and remain an ■çagricultural people with hard labor. immigrants are coming in and doing the lords work because they are doing jobs that -- this is tough, and i'm trying to make sure i see it right in a non-insensitive way. but they are coming in and doing jobs that other folks don't want to do.

they are not taking african- american jobs, they are not taking white folks jobs. and it's again something that donald trump can just toss out there, and it's a lie. black votes have spent much of the weekend determining what is a black job, and it's very, very hard to figure out what that is. but it's a nonsensical term thrown out there by a guy who says nonsensical things, and somehow he is a leader of one of the two parties in this country. so there is no shift of african- americans towards donald trump. there is no mass exodus. although we were disappointed in joe biden's performance,■ç i willing to say right now that he had a bad night. he had an off night, because the very next day, he brought the fire, he was uncle joe we all know in north carolina. he says absurdist things, and we can't continue to give weight and responsibility and verbal authority to this nonsense that he gets up and says. he was the news from thursday night because he continued to

lie. and david is right. his lies have become so embedded into the thing of who he is, that we don't even pay attention to it anymore, but it still stinks really bad if we open our noses. >> last question. with trump saying he does believe biden will be the nominee, does that make democrats nervous? should it? if he's pushing for biden k7çto his opponent?■ç >> look, i'm not a democrat. i'm an independent. i think the democratic party is the best vessel to stop donald trump and roll back the authoritarian thai. it's up to democrats who they believe is the strongest candidate. is it joe biden or another candidate ? i think we are so hyper- partisan in our politics in the country, it almost doesn't matter. my greatest concern -- my greatest concern coming out of thursday night, if the white house staff does not fix the narrative around joe biden is this. people are not going to show up. voter depression will be very

real. people who never saw themselves voting for donald trump now say, i got a question about whether joe biden can for 4 1/2 years, until january of 2029. if that voter says, i give up. i can't support either one of them. that is trouble ■çfor the country, because it likely contributes to donald trump returning to the white house. >> this is a difficult conversation we've had to have today. but thank you very much. see you next weekend. why organizers say something that is happening right now in new york's eddie is more important than ever. s ? boring does. boring makes vacations happen, early retirements possible, and startups start up. because it's smart, dependable, and steady. all words you want from your bank. for nearly 160 years, pnc bank has been brilliantly boring so you can be happily fulfilled... which is pretty un-boring if you think about it. (♪♪)

(♪♪) try dietary supplements from voltaren, for healthy joints. okay everyone, our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy. yay - woo hoo! ensure, with 27 vitamins and minerals, nutrients for immune health. and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. (♪♪)

>> as pride >> as pride month comes to a close here in new york city, the annual pride marches underway. organizers anticipate millions support lgbt you plus rights and freedoms at a time when they are increasingly coming under attack. towards the lease is joining us now from the parade route. that is south of where we are here in midtown.

george, what have you seen and what is the mood like? >> it is a festival, it is a party, it is hard not to get caught up in some of the action out here. i just want to fist bump and dance. this comes obviously at a time when many people are worried about the status of lgbt rights. this may look like a parade, but the classification is a pride march. more than 50 years after the uprising at stonewall, and that is not lost on many of the people here. they advocate, they want this to continue, cuing so important in the movement for equality. people here, of course celebrate. the weather was a concern, i will tell you, but it has been holding out. you are not seeing anyone out here complaining. take a look. >> a complete party like atmosphere. everyone that i spoke with is very happy with how this all turned out today.

they have given a nod to new york city's finest as well for keeping everyone safe, and i want to tell you, as we talk to people, hearing their sentiments really compels you about the importance and significance of today. take a listen. >> everybody out here is just celebrating being happy, and this is really all about togetherness today. as you can see, everyone is happy, having a great time. just the significance alone, it can't be stated enough■ç. but especially with it being an election year and that stuff. it's a great time for everybody. >> and i just continuously gets louder and louder out here. again, a good time. everyone having those moments and really celebrating the significance of this pride march. we are here at the heart, at the epicenter. i will spare you the dancing. that something nobody wants to see on tv. let me tell you, it's a good time out here. we will continue the pride march here in new york. alex. >> actually, i actually would

like to see the dance. if we see you again in the next hour, you just go for it. okay, i stand corrected. no. thank you. it just a moment, we step into the donald trump time machine to see what all the fuss was ■çin his immunity case the curious thing trump is saying about the democrats new drama. smile! you found it. the feeling of finding psoriasis can't filter out the real you. so go ahead, live unfiltered with the one and only sotyktu, a once-daily pill for moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, and the chance at clear or almost clear skin. it's like the feeling of finding you're so ready for your close-up. or finding you don't have to hide your skin just your background. once-daily sotyktu was proven better, getting more people clearer skin than the leading pill. don't take if you're allergic to sotyktu;

serious reactions can occur. sotyktu can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections, cancers including lymphoma, muscle problems, and changes in certain labs have occurred. tell your doctor if you have an infection, liver or kidney problems, high triglycerides, or had a vaccine or plan to. sotyktu is a tyk2 inhibitor. tyk2 is part of the jak family. it's not known if sotyktu has the same risks as jak inhibitors. find what plaque psoriasis has been hiding. there's only one sotyktu, so ask for it by name. so clearly you. sotyktu. harlem has everything. but i couldn't find pilates anywhere. so i started my own studio. and with the right help, i can make this place i love even better. earn up to 5% cash back on business essentials with the chase ink business cash card from chase for business. when my doctor gave me breztri for my copd, things changed for me. breztri gave me better breathing, symptom improvement, and reduced flare—ups. breztri won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. it is not for asthma. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it.

don't take breztri more than prescribed. breztri may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. ask your doctor about breztri. (kev) yo, yo what's up everybody? how you doing? (reporter 1)on changes, kev! kev! can i getoccur. a response to the trade rumors? (kev) trade? trade means movin' man...we talkin' about moving? moving means contractors, inspectors, strangers judging my carpet. we talkin' about staging? we talkin' about a faux ficus? a faux ficus? nobody's gonna bring a faux ficus into my house... (reporter 2) you could use opendoor. sell your house directly to them, it's easy. (kev) ... i guess we're movin'. (reporters) kev! kev! (kev) whatchu gonna ask me about next, man? practice? sometimes jonah wrestles with falling asleep... ...so he takes zzzquil. the world's #1 sleep aid brand. and wakes up feeling like himself. get the rest to be your best with non-habit forming zzzquil. ♪ ♪

this summer. snacking. just. got. serious. introducing new $3 footlong dippers. the world might not be ready for them... ...but at $3 a pop? your wallet definitely is.

>> joe biden >> joe biden has confronted and had to come back from tragedy,

from trials, from tribulations throughout his entire life. so the moment we are in right now is a comeback moment. >> trump is still 0, and he's the only person that ever beaten trump. i really believe the joe biden will do that again, despite all of ■çthe democrats wetting the bed over that kind of thing. >> all right. that gives us something to discuss right now. will do that with tim miller, host of the bulwark podcast and writer at large for the bulwark. so you heard right there, democrats on the sunday shows largely lining up behind president biden this morning, but there are some editorials and opinion pieces out there calling for him to get out of the race. what do you, tim, make of where we are right now? >> i am scared, alex. donald trump is clearly winning this race right now. that is number one. another one of the reasons he wanted to have the debate in

june was because he was winning and wanted to focus ■çthe minds of voters. obviously, he fielded that task last week. now we have one candidate that is a threat to democracy and a clear lead in every swing state. by the way, if you don't trust the swing state polls, those same polls show the democrat winning in the senate races, so i don't think that they are biased. i think they show that there are certain voters that are concerned about joe biden's age and aren't supporting him right now. you saw a vote this morning that said 72% of voters including a lot of democrats don't think joe biden is up for the job cognitively. that is very concerning. i don't like the happy talk. when i hear hacking jeffries say this is a comeback moment for joe biden, i response to that is, white where is joe biden? why is he having a senior picture day? why not■ç -- when i used to wor

on campaigns and we had a bad day, you put the candidate out the next day to talk about the media to clean it up and change the narrative. joe biden is not doing that. >> the fact that he is not doing that, i think there's an argument to be made, and i think it was made on either the dnc call list. we feel that maybe surrogates around there in a wide array making the case for him today, he will have time to make the case. did he make the case for himself the day after when he was in north carolina and he had that robust rally and he said, hey, when you get knocked down, you get back up again. you have to admit he vx/iwas a different man there that he was thursday night. >> okay, sure. that's fine. but it was on a teleprompter■ç the middle of the day. there are people with legitimate concerns. this is not media bedwetting. this is real americans. i see it in my text messages

from friends, from college, from people i work with. real americans are deeply concerned about joe biden's performance in the debate. going and giving one speech is good. it was a good start. but it is not enough. he has to be out doing interviews, doing press conferences, he has to be demonstrating that is up for this, that is really up for this. if that's the message they want to have. i don't think so. surrogates can't fix this. the concerns that voters have -- not democratic voters, not joe biden super fans -- the undecided voters will decide this election, you can't fix that i having hacking jeffries■ talk it to death. >> you were talking about the cbs vote, which was taken in those first two days as a snap reaction, and that reaction is legitimate. the one that you are hearing. but the dust settles. so give it a few days. maybe a pole seven days later will have a sense of things. but do you think the debate changed any voters?

we see no evidence at this point. you have those that are in the trump camp, they will stay there. you have those in biden's camp. are they going to switch to donald trump? >> no. but as david jolly said in the last segment, some of them might not vote. some of them might stay home. we did focus groups at the bulwark about these two time trump voters that were considering voting for joe biden. we listened to them, and after ç the debate, quite a few of them said they had changed their mind. they are not going to go to joe biden. these people exist. there been four polls since the debate, two showed biden doing worse, two showed even. he didn't need to keep the polls the same. he needed to do better. i repeat, he is losing this race. if the trajectory of this race does not change, the donald trump is going to win. >> he has >> he has got to do somethi