which registered voters are which registered voters are saying about his b's debate performance and his ability to serve another plus what

donald trump really means when he says black jobs. and, separation of church and state, not so separate in oklahoma now forcing public schools to teach the bible. what if the teacher refuses? let's do it.■ç tonight, a new poll in the aftermath of thursday night's presidential debate is likely only adding to democratic anguish about the state of the race. a cbs 2 of online survey of registered voters finds the nearly three out of four think biden does not have the mental and cognitive health to serve as president, and there are some caveats. the poll was immediate, conducted just two days after the debate and this margin of error is 4.2 points, but this is a seven point increase in the number of registered voters who had the specific doubts about biden on june 9th just weeks before the debate.

to counter the negativity, top biden supporters hit the airwaves today to stand by their candidate. >> i have spent time with joe biden. i can tell!çyou that not only does he have a tough mind, he has a tender heart, and that is what you need in a president. donald trump has neither. joe biden has confronted and had to come back from tragedy, from trials, from tribulations throughout his entire life so the moment that we are in right now is a come back moment. >> joe biden's decision to go forward is a decision we will all embrace because of the record he has in the performance that will come with it. >> for their part, the biden campaign staff took a more abrasive approach to countering worries about joe biden. on saturday, biden campaign chair jen o'malley dillon put out a memo stating■ç biden coul

still win and pointed to the $27 million the campaign raised after the debate. as for the polling she stated quote, if we do see changes in polling in the coming weeks it will not be the first time that overblown media narratives have driven temporary dips in the polls. following that logic, if the polls turn bad for biden, it's not because of his debate performance, it's because of the overblown media coverage of the debate performance. meanwhile, in a fund-raising memo to supporters, bob celerity tried to assure supporters by attacking people questioning biden's debate performance as coach, the bedwetting brigade. the email is meant to give ammunition for biden supporters to deal with what■ç flaherty called your panicked aunt, your 1010 uncle or some self- important podcasters. is that the best way to address supporters with legitimate concerns about biden's candidacy? maybe, maybe not. is the biden campaign being defiant? probably, or are they

in denial, we will see. joining me to discuss, one of the self-important podcasters, tim miller, christina greer. all right, tim, you are the card-carrying member of the self-important podcaster bread wedding -- bedwetting brigade. do you want to respond to the campaign attack and your integrity or their spin? >> i don't know. they might've been attacking me i guess, they didn't say. i will say this. we all come from the same place to start with, which is that we passionately do not want donald trump"t 2025. a second trump term would be an absolute catastrophe, and so i think the bedwetters come from

or are motivated by that goal, keeping trump out of the white house and to me, i think if you are watching this, if you are in the biden campaign, if you are a podcaster, if you are a guest anchor on msnbc and you are not bedwetting right now, i think you're deluding yourself. donald trump was winning this campaign before the debate. the reason why joe biden's team asked for an early debate in june was because they wanted to reframe the narrative, remind people about donald trump's extreme views, demonstrate that joe biden was up for the job. they failed■ç on that because o joe biden's performance, not because of the media coverage of it and so right now, we are in a situation where trump was winning, biden had a terrible debate performance and now trump is still winning. we will see by how much in the coming weeks so we should be bedwetting and the biden campaign should be figuring out if they're going to stay the course here, what they are going to change in order to change the trajectory of this race so we can keep donald trump out of the white house. >> christina, let's pick up on that. as far as tactics go, is this a smart one to reassure people

who do have legitimate concerns by saying look, this panic is not helping. it's going to actually cause more harm than we currently have inflicted upon ourselves, and it should stop, or should they be more candid and up front and acknowledge the debate performance■ç and the severity the problem that they've created? >> i think they have to do both. i don't know why they agreed to a debate. we know that donald trump is really quick on his feet and oftentimes debates are about style, not substance. you know, oftentimes people don't change their minds once they watch a debate. if you like your candidate, you like your candidate. this one, though, actually met a lot of democrats quite nervous so where do we go from here? that is the largest question, i believe in playing with the cards that i have not the ones that i want. if joe biden is going to stay the course and the democratic

party stick with them, they need to have some frank conversations with their voters. i think some of the angst we need to be honest about is that some people don't want to see■ç black woman who is the vice president ascend as the president. i think that is a hard conversation for some people and seeing how long in the tooth joe biden looked the other night at the debate is a question. i think they need to reassure voters consistently. he had a great performance the next day in north carolina that was also with a teleprompter, which many people pointed out, so getting out there and showing voters that he is capable of doing his job -- we don't talk enough about the fact that joe biden has been very honest about having a starter. we know on a debate stage that can slow things down just a little bit and so let's put him in an element where people feel confident he can do the job for four more years. he is the oldest u.s. president that we've seen and so■ç, peopl

are nervous and rightfully so but it is in, and upon the entire administration to assuage those fears going into november and not just to get past november 5th but that he can also do the job once he is in it for a second term. >> at times is now reporting along with politico that biden's family is urging him to stay in the race and keep fighting, and during the retreat they held this weekend, the times is reporting quote, one of the strongest voices imploring mr. biden to resist, with his son, hunter biden, whom the president has long weaned him for advice. putting aside what you think of hunter biden, the family obviously has an outsized role in the future choices or the choices about the future that the president is going to make. if they are planning to stick this out, to christina's point, what can they do to change the trajectory here?■ç putting him out there more in the non-teleprompter specific environment may be the answer, but that seems to be the thing that he can view the least.

>> yeah, so if you can't do it, i think that's why we should maybe be having hard conversations and by we, i mean the people in the pro-democracy movement but really more specifically the top officials of the democratic party in the biden family need to have an honest conversation about this, you know, like hunter biden's opinions, the fact that he wants his dad to defend himself, i get all that. i've been in those rooms. i was there right before jeb bush was deciding whether he was going to drop out of the race or not and there were some family members that wanted him to stay in but there was no path to victory right and so you have to make a hard choice in these situations that is bacjud by data, that is backed by the reality of the president's abilities, so let's see what the data says coming out this week. that poll that you showed a 72% of people thinking he's not cognitively able to be the president is extremely alarming. let's see what the swing state data says a must-have conversation and if they come out of that and say okay, joe

biden needs to stay in this race, he needs to be out there. it is confusing to me that he was not doing interviews today, that all those clips that you showed were from hakeem jeffries and nancy pelosi. he did have the good event in north carolina on friday but he has not done an interview since the debate on thursday and that is totally not what you would expect a team to do if they needed to try to change the narrative.■ç back when i was doing comms for campaigns if we had a night as bad as that we would've had our candidate out there the next morning trying to change the narrative, doing interviews, going on the today show, going on fox, maybe, so he hasn't done that. >> he did have a phone niche --

photo shoot with annie leibovitz. >> christina, let's talk about kamala harris. obviously we are in this weird moment where we are openly talking about potential replacements for biden, should he choose to drop out the no indication he will do so. in fact, we have been told he's going to stick with it. we're going to hear things like gretchen whitmer, gavin newsom. others. every time a name is out there it seems to bypass or ignore the obvious choice■ç to replace biden on the ticket who would be vice president harrison is not just because she's vice president. it's the obvious one. all the money they've raised can really only go to her anyway so you alluded to it what you think is going on here? will voters be offended by the fact that she is not being talked about in a more serious way as a potential biden replacement? >> listen, we need to have some real conversations about what country we live in, right? we know that black women have been the keepers of democracy in the democratic party for quite some time and we also know that the vast majority of voters across the political

spectrum have a real issue with black female leadership. there is a real reason there's never been a black female governor in the history of our nation. there's a reason there've only been two black female senators so, how's■ç kamala harris done steadfast job in these last three years serving the country? absolutely. the fact that we are still having conversations about gavin listening gretchen whitmer and people digits all public servants, but not vice president. we need to look at the data and be honest about the fact that white women vote for the republican party by a margin have consistently done so in republican elections. ever since 1952 the only two times white women have voted for the democratic candidate was 1954 in 19 [ inaudible ] doesn't seem like it's going to move the needle so there is an intersection of race and gender that's always been obvious in this country and i think this is the reason why we are having conversations about everyone else and not the woman who is

literally been doing the job in the white house right ■çnext to the president. >> tim and christina. you are sticking around. next, donald trump keeps mentioning black jobs. what is even talking about? ♪ limu emu... ♪ and doug. (bell ringing) limu, someone needs to customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual.

let's fly! (inaudible sounds) chief! doug. (inaudible sounds) ooooo ah. (elevator doors opening) (inaudible sounds) i thought you were right behind me. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, ♪ ♪ liberty. ♪ ♪ i wanna hold you forever ♪ hey little bear bear. ♪ ♪ ♪ i'm gonna love you forever ♪ ♪ ♪ c'mon, bear. ♪ ♪ ♪ you don't...you don't have to worry... ♪ ♪ be by your side... i'll be there... ♪ ♪ with my arms wrapped around... ♪

i thought i was sleeping ok... but i was waking up so tired. then i tried new zzzquil sleep nasal strips. their four—point lift design opens my nose for maximum air flow. so, i breathe better. and we both sleep better. and stay married.

>> i forgot what a black >> i forgot what a black job is. i might in the black job right now? i don't know. >> no, you're in a bounce back job. >> okay, they've changed the label since i got here. >> that was simone sanders on this network mocking donald trump's infamous talking point during thursday's debate. trump claimed that migrants were taking quote black jobs and hispanic jobs from americans. he repeated it again at a rally on friday in virginia. christine and tim are back with me now. christina, trump has always had trouble connecting with black voters■ç it always tried to do

so. how exactly is railing about so- called black jobs going to endear him to that constituency? >> there is a small segment of the population that obviously is feeling the brunt of inflation and you know, sort of scared about the future and this is donald trump's low hanging fruit way of trying to exploit some of the dissatisfaction black voters have with the democratic party and have had for a very long time, feeling as though there is a certain element, party capture, where you don't have another party to go to. talking to voters is in florida ■çor arizona there is definitely a sense that other groups are getting things that black voters didn't necessarily get so donald trump is exploiting that. he has always been best at trying to divide people so this is his latest tactic. i agree

with simone foley. i'm very unclear as to what a black job is. there were some great things on the internet to try and help explain what that is but at the core of moving beyond the means and the jokes, it really gets into donald trump is, which is this divisive character who really has a very strong view of who he thinks the black start and who he thinks immigrants are. he does not respect better group and to him it's easier to put them against one another as opposed to putting for policy issues because he has none and he did nothing when he was president. he takes credit for lots of things but he did not help the economy. he did not have ■çhistorical black colleges. he did not help the black economy, he wants to erase the federal government, so there are a lot of ways you have to move past his divisive rhetoric and actually hear what he is saying, which is not very kind and it never has been. >> tim, trump is obviously very

inconsistent but the one consistent thing he has brought to politics as he has demonized migrants and this goes to that, essentially framing them as stealing jobs from other constituencies. can you talk a bit about how that has been the undercurrent of all his politics? >> it is. trump has this kind of lizard brain hatred of foreigners and■ immigrants. it's kind of this archie bunker style of racism and he's never had a deep policy got to go around it and so what we are seeing here is some of the nativist policy advisers that are around him using this wedge between migrants and working- class voters of color, that they have been doing -- this is like a tale as old of -- as time

, it is how they have tried to get support among more traditionally liberal constituencies for hard-line immigration policies by demonizing migrants, trying to put groups against each other and trump is just offering a much more hackneyed version of that in his bigoted way and this relates a little bit to the question you asked in the last segment. i will say again a few are looking at■ç the biden-harris ticket right now in the conversation around joe biden i feel like kamala harris has demonstrated she could make a pretty compelling counterattack on this topic, and has done so and did so also on abortion and other issues and in her appearances since the debate on thursday, and i think it is noteworthy that donald trump made this gaffe at the debate. joe biden really didn't push back on it but i think kamala harris would be a pretty effective voice in pushing back on this. >> yeah. christina, i want to talk about the president of the black conservative federation who

said quote, he met the jobs of black people and we've been using that term for a while and yet that is not what trump said, right? >> absolutely not and to tim's point, we will get to this in a later segment about bibles in schools but■ç this is no christian nationalist agenda that donald trump silk has, you know, donald trump doesn't really care. he's not interested in policy. he's interested in being in charge, whatever that means for him, just having people stand up and salute him but he doesn't really care about these issues but he has always had a very particular view of the blacks and immigrants, nevermind the fact that two of his three wives are immigrants and four of his five children are children of immigrants. putting that aside, he does not see them as worthy or

deserving. he does not see them as part of this country. we cannot have a president who has that mind-set and surrounds himself with people who have■ç that mind-set. that is the larger question we are trying to get that which is the trump versus biden conversation we are having is not just about donald trump or joe biden, it's about the types of people they surround themselves with on the types of policies we will get. we will get policies that will drastically hurt immigrants and black people, especially when donald trump wants to essentially pull this country apart and sell it for pieces. these are a lot of government jobs black americans have relied on to elevate themselves into the middle class. those are the top jobs the donald trump ilk are targeting to get rid of. the first day, if he is ever re-elected, so we have to make sure we're not just talking about these two men and what they say and don't say, but the people who will actually implement some of these horrible policies donald trump is throwing out there at his rallies. >> all right, tim and christina, i'm not going to let you go. we have a few more things to talk about.■ç next, the supreme court issued a win for abortion access in idaho so why are

doctors there and beyond still scared to provide life-saving care? aving care?

(♪♪) (♪♪) try dietary supplements from voltaren, for healthy joints. tamra, izzy and emma... no one puts more love into logistics than these three.

you need them. they need a retirement plan. work with principal so we can help you with a plan that's right for your team. let our expertise round out yours.

nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid before it begins. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium.

for now, emergency abortions for now, emergency abortions are technically allowed in idaho. the supreme court sidestepped a ruling last week on whether the state abortion law conflicts with federal law that requires stabilizing care for emergency room patients, including pregnant women suffering complications who may require abortions. nicole miller of idaho is one of those cases. in her 20th week of pregnancy, she started bleeding heavily. her husband rushed her to the emergency room for care. she spoke exclusively about what happened next. >> reporter: she said she could not believe what the doctor told her. >> he couldn't risk his 20 year career, and i was shocked. i was in the hospital with doctors who could help me■ç, an nobody wanted to help me.

>> reporter: because they were in idaho, which bans nearly all abortions, no call was flown to utah. she is now part of a lawsuit by the center for reproductive rights. >> i kept thinking that i may never see my girls again. >> to be bleeding, worried about your life and then to be put on an airplane -- >> it felt horrible. it felt like nobody was willing to take care of me and they were just kind of passing me off and i remember that day saying that to almost anybody who walked in the room. i don't want to die. >> the high court's decision last week does not clear things up. doctors in idaho and in states with near-total abortion bands say they have little clarity■ç about what medical emergencies are covered in little reassurance they will not face charges. as justice katanji brown jackson said in her opinion, the ruling is not a victory for pregnant patients. joining me now is physician and

msnbc contributing physician dr. natal and abortion corresponded at the nation. >> start with your response to nicole miller story and the fear that doctors have around performing the emergency to abortion what she so urgently needed. how do you see the supreme court decision fitting into that equation? to what extent does it■ç leave exacerbate circumstances around which emergency room abortions are covered? >> there is certainly limited relief. i think all of us are grateful it did not err on the side of saying that it did not apply however, it was very limited relief and i think it's because unfortunately we are going to see much more of that because they still did not give us -- the supreme court did not say that this is where the law does

apply. they basically kicked it back and said it needs to work its way through the court system and that idaho doctors -- i spoke to several doctors in idaho, and they said that they are still confused about whether or not something that would constitute abortion care in the process of saving a woman's life would be enough■ç then keep them from being held legally liable so many of the doctors and the idaho medical association reinforced this by issuing a statement saying, we are not sure if there is enough protection here and we are still likely going to see women in idaho being forced to leave the state to get care that they need so i think what we are all asking for is a clear maternal health exception in idaho's abortion ban, which is one of the strictest in the nation, but i don't see any signs we're going to get it. >> let's talk about the national implications here. this case is obviously specifically■ç around emergency

abortions in idaho but there are broader implications. for pregnant patients in other states it's not just about leaving the state. it's about doctors who are going to have to turn to lawyers and hospitals to say hey, am i allowed to do these procedures, right? >> right. that is why i think this case is really a harbinger, harbinger of defeat that we are going to have after the 2024 election when it seems clear there is a majority of conservatives on the supreme court were ready to roll that federal law does not protect gravely ill pregnant patients from state abortion bands that require they have to be almost dead before dr. can intervene. i don't want to be too glib here. this is a temporary reprieve. we know the largest healthcare system in idaho reported it was helicopter impatience out of the state a rate of about one every two weeks because they were experiencing dire pregnancy complications but they were not quite dead enough for doctors■ç weren't sure they

were committing a felony to help that person so for every single patient doctors now determined they are hemorrhaging but they don't have to get on the helicopter, i said that's a win for those individuals but i agree with justice jackson's assessment here that this is an attempt to delay until after the 2024 election when we know abortion is going to be the major issue. let's be clear about what this case is really about. this is about the gap between someone who is gravely ill and pregnant, and someone who is actively dying and pregnant. it's about the gap between somebody who is may be about to lose a major bodily organ or lose their future facility -- fertility and someone who dr. can say definitely that person's about to die right now. the. -- the upticks about this are very bad for republicans. they want to attend that abortion afterbirth is a thing. they don't want to be talking about how you or someone you lmv bleeding or experiencing an affection for the doctor standing over them trying to make a determination of whether

there dead enough yet. justice jackson said this. justice alito even said that he thinks the court has lost the will to rule on this matter. i think this is really an attempt on escape hatch, as jackson called it and as she put it, storm clouds loom ahead. i want that on a bumper sticker because that is a slogan for 2024 across the board. i think we can expect the supreme court is going to consider this issue again whether it is to do with idaho's law, which is now heading back to the lower courts or to do with texas were in a similar case, the conservative fifth circuit ■ç allowed him taller to be preempted. >> dr. patel, i want to ask you about how often pregnancies end

up in this dire stage and then if you are a doctor forced to■ç confront this conundrum talk about the weird place for you have to weigh the hippocratic oath against the possibility of jail time. >> to be honest, that is the problem. most of us cannot split our minds into thinking about how do i protect myself legally while i make sure i do what is right in front of me. to your first point though about how common this is, that is exactly where people are getting incredibly lost. if you look at the details, there are pregnant women that on an average, even one in about 100 pregnancies can have some sort of complication that

lands them in their last trimester in an emergency room. i myself have had it right that i was experiencing contractions prematurely. it can be a number of things -- your blood pressure, so many things can happen in the last trimester for your past that point. you want this baby, you want the pregnancy to come to fruition but you have an emergency and that is exactly the kind of scenarios you heard from nicole, many of the cases being airlifted out of idaho and in states like texas so these are not uncommon problems. these are not women seeking abortions on demand.■ç that has been out there in some sort of conservative literature and these are not doctors trying to find abortion so it is incredibly common and not something we want to face. we want to take care of the patient in front of us and do what is best for them. >> all right, thank you both so much. next up, oklahoma says public schools will teach the bible or else. it's time to feed the dogs real food, not highly processed pellets. the farmer's dog is fresh food made

with whole meat and veggies. it's not dry food. it's not wet food. it's just real food. it's an idea whose time has come. to me, harlem is home. but home is also your body. i asked myself, why doesn't pilates exist in harlem? so i started my own studio. getting a brick and mortar in new york is not easy. chase ink has supported us from studio one to studio three. when you start small, you need some big help. and chase ink was that for me. earn up to 5% cash back on business essentials with the chase ink business cash card from chase for business. make more of what's yours.

every day, more dog people are deciding it's time for a fresh approach to pet food. developed with vets. made from real meat and veggies. portioned for your dog. and delivered right to your door. it's smarter, healthier pet food.

on the show, we on the show, we have been following a growing conservative movement to infuse christian values into public schools. louisiana recently became the first u.s. state to require the 10 commandments be displayed in schools and now, oklahoma will mandate that all public schools teach the bible. oklahoma superintendent of public instruction ryer -- ryan walters sat down for an interview with nbc news and gave this warning to teachers who refused to teach the bill. >> they will be reprimanded. they will be told that this is part of the oklahoma academic standards and if the teacher breaks the law and refuses to they can lose their teachers license. >> my panels back with me now. tim, when you see louisiana requiring the 10 commandments

be displayed in schools, mandating the entire bible he taught in classrooms, where does your mind go? are we walking towards a theocracy here? >> well, the word theocracy is kind of loaded but we are walking into a bad place. it is pretty gross and also just absurd to put the 10 commandments up in every school . the governor here, jeff landry, who is a loyal■ç adhere of the maga church deciding to put the 10 commandments up when their head priest, donald trump, has broken every one of them so the whole thing is laughable but also scary. these teachers and oklahoma losing their jobs potentially is a big threat and look, i think there's been obviously a christian nationalist wing within the republican party for a long time and on the right, but the power of that wing is growing dramatically every year, and actually for something i just watched ronald reagan in

1984 and he gave a pretty compelling defense of separation of church and state. obviously ronald reagan wanted to pass some christian policies as well but we've now got even further down the road toward■ç everybody on the right denying that there needs to be any separation between church and state at all which is the fundamental principle of america. that is deeply alarming. >> christina, you are an educator. you heard this threat from ryan walters that teachers can potentially lose their jobs if they don't follow his rule in teaching the bible. i mean, what is it like if you are a teacher in the school there, how scary is that? >> i mean it is absolutely frightening because what we are also going to do is lose quality teachers, teachers who don't want to be in a school system where they could possibly lose their license if they don't want to follow the cessna christian nationalism. ss

hindu -- this idea that we have to make enstudents learn the bie as part of a much larger, longer agenda of the republican party that we have seen play out everywhere from the supreme court to state governments to small towns and local li s governments across the country and as tim said, it's always been a wing of the party but the faction has been growing and essentially taken over the party in recent years. >> all right, tim and christina, i will finally let you go. thank you so much. appreciate it. next, supreme court decisions that have truly transformed college admissions. transformed college admissions. 27 vitamins and minerals, nutrients for immune health. and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. (♪♪) (vo) in three seconds, this couple with 30 grams will share a perfect moment.n. (woman) is that? oh wow! but we got to sell our houses! (vo) well, almost perfect. don't worry. just sell directly to opendoor. (woman) yes!

(vo) close in a matter of days. when life's doors open, we'll handle the house.

which looks better — this? or this? seems clear to me. if you love to save, check out the wise buys sales event going on right now at america's best — get two pairs of progressives for just $129.95. offer includes a comprehensive eye exam. book an exam online today. an alternative to pills, voltaren is a clinically proven arthritis pain relief gel, which penetrates deep to target the source of pain with nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory medicine directly at the source. voltaren, the joy of movement.

clem's not a morning person. or a...people person. but he is an "i can solve this in 4 different ways" person. you need clem. clem needs benefits. work with principal so we can help you with a plan that's right for him. let our expertise round out yours. (bell ringing) someone needs to customize and save hundreds with liberty mutual! (inaudible sounds) (elevator doors opening) wait, there's an elevator? only pay for what you need.

♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, ♪ ♪ liberty. ♪ a new a new msnbc film documentary premiering tonight after the show is a nuanced look at a landmark supreme court decision that is transformed college admissions. admissions granted carefully traces the legal debate over affirmative actions that divided americans even within the same communities. here is a quick look. >> that is when i noticed one common theme, they were asian- american so then that is what i thought oh, what if me being

asian-american was the problem. >> yeah, then a lot of the kids will have near-perfect s.a.t.s,% near-perfect gpas and amazing extracurricular activities, they end up in great schools but not ivy league. that's why i wanted to file a lawsuit and then that is when my dad stop me he said first, do you know how much a lawsuit cost? >> that he said i'm going to sue them for the civil rights. you are not the only case. there are so many. >> that is when my dad decided you know, this is a big enough issue to where we should gather asian parents to try to form a coalition to address this issue. >> as a child growing up, my foot tall father told me that if you work hard you will be able to succeed. what do we know that as? we know that is the american dream. >> [ inaudible ] >> looking for opportunity■ç.

>> [ inaudible ] not have discrimination in certain groups. >> after the break i will talk to the codirectors of admissions granted. stay with us. everyday, more dog people are deciding it's time to quit the kibble and feed their dogs fresh food from the farmer's dog. made by vets and delivered right to your door precisely portioned for your dog's needs. it's an idea whose time has come. ♪♪

one year one year ago this weekend the supreme court gutted affirmative action, essentially

ending race-conscious admissions at u.s. colleges and universities. it was no surprise the six justice gorsuch. majority voted together.■ç behind the movement was conservative activist edward bloom, a one-man crusader both against the 1965 voting rights act and affirmative action. after years of defeat, bloom finally succeeded with a new strategy. rather than casting a white plaintiff is the face of the aggrieved student who failed to get into the college of their choice, bloom created a group called students for fair admissions and recruited asian americans. it worked. but, not without a lot of apprehension in the asian- american community about being thrust into the center of this

contentious debate. the behind the scenes story of this landmark supreme court case is now being told in a rdvealing new documentary called admissions granted, which premieres right here on msnbc tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern. i'm joined now by the codirectors of that film, miao wang and hao wu. you've got some it looks like incredibly amazing access to all the people involved in this historic court case. how did you get into the story, how were you able to get into these characters? how did you get them to agree to talk to you about this in such a deeply personal way? >> we started this project in late 2019 when the district court ruling had just come down and we were reading a lot about the case and also you know, being asian americans ourselves, we also know a lot of people discussing the case in different ways so that really piqued our interest in through the research■ç, a lot o people we got on the harvard

side were actually people who testified in the district courts and since we started, the pandemic happened, as soon as we started doing research, so that give us a lot of time to read a lot of court transcripts for the supreme court trial and edward bloom, you know, he has done a lot of media appearances and is actually quite open to speaking about his work. he gave us fairly open access from fairly early on, as well, so yeah, that's■ç how it got started. >> hao, the film captures what is real tension that some asian americans were feeling on one hand. they're fighting against anti- asian discrimination and on the other hand becoming the face of the anti-affirmative action movement. this is a short clip that speaks to that tension. >> it's very frustrating that

asian-americans are the face of this, that they are a wedge on this issue. >> yes, there is some amount of using but also on the other hand, this is what political alliances are all about. you find common cause. >> maybe edward may have other motives but in terms of fighting for it asian-americans i'm truly sure we are on the same page.■ç >> if ffa were concerned about fighting for it asian-americans don't you think they should ask for relief for asian-americans? >> we are one year from the supreme court decision. has that apprehension you captured increased or decreased? >> i think our goal has been to capture the complexity around the affirmative action debate. i am also trying to portray the diversity within the asian- american community. within the asian-american community, the debate and discussion continued today, like some groups within the asian-american community, they are still -- you know, believe

affirmative action should have been upheld so we are working very hard to promote diversity and promotion of underprivileged minorities were as another group is firmly against affirmative action. they applauded the affirmative- action ruling so this kind of debate is continuing within the community■ç. hopefully with our film we can facilitate even deep in conversation. more conversations will be good for us to decide what is the best way going forward. >> miao, i'm curious about that, too. this tension really centers around edward bloom, a conservative activist, but he did pick up a cause that was near and dear to many asian- american students. what was your take on his motivation, having spent time with him and learned essentially the role he played in this process in dealing with the students?

>> you know, you can see when you watch the film that edward bloom has really been on a decades-long mission to really get rid of the race consideration in■ç society, so asian-americans are a new factor in this case, the cases he has brought up before definitely did not involve asian-americans, so this is not really something new in a lot of ways, for him. this is part of the continuation of the work that he has been doing and it is going to continue on words with now, you know, as you have seen other cases that is brought forward. that does not have anything to do with higher education, so it's going to go towards other sectors of society. >>■ç hao, we are now one year

removed from the supreme court's decision. it is having significant impact. the washington post reports the decision has gone far beyond academia or programs meant to diversify companies, public boards and government contractors facing a legal onslaught released by the landmark ruling pushing american society at large toward a new race-neutral era. what do you think the legacy of the ruling will ultimately be? will it stay with academia or be much broader? >> is definitely going to be much broader because as we capture in the film, this has been a stated goal for people like edward bloom. edward bloom stated that he hoped that the win in this case would kickstart the next phase of this entire society adopting a colorblind principle ■çnot ju in college admissions but also

in workplace, public contracting, voting. so, we are seeing right now a lot of corporate and also public private sector organizations scaling back efforts because they are afraid of the lawsuit and we are seeing more and more lawsuits after going through the judiciary system hopefully be able to reach the supreme court within the next few years, so we will have a better understanding of how the supreme court will continue to rule on the issue of race consideration. >> all right, miao wang and hao wu, the film looks incredible. thank you for making it. i really appreciate that. and thank you for spending time with us. ng i am sam stein. the msnbc film admissions granted starts right now. . pia]