good day. i'm chris jansing live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. no road map, no guidance. nothing like it has ever been seen before.

the huge decisions now dropped in judge tanya chutkan's lap to decide what will and won't be allowed at trump's election interference trial. so even if the trial itself can't happen before election day, could the american people still see the evidence at pretrial hearings and potentially right before they cast their votes? plus, the killer hurricane that flattened a caribbean island in half an hour. the storm packing wind gusts over 200 miles per hour. now bearing down on jamaica with central america next in its sights. and breaking news just moments ago, the first sitting democrat in congress now publicly calling for president biden to withdraw from the race. that bad debate night turning into a bad week for the president, as he tries to fend off growing angst from inside his own party. what nbc news has learned about what the president is and maybe more importantly is not saying to ease fears that he's no longer up to the job.

lots to get to, but we start with the supreme court shock waves rocking the country and the presidential campaign, just 24 hours after the controversial ruling on presidential immunity. several important new updates now. just a few hours ago, we learned that manhattan d.a. alvin bragg will not oppose delaying trump's sentencing in the hush money case that was currently set for next thursday. the reason, to give donald trump time to challenge that guilty verdict, based on the argument that it violates the high court's immunity ruling. but that same ruling also unfreezes a separate case, the one alleging federal election interference. nbc, which has been on hold for six months now. while there is still little or no chance of a trial before the election, prosecutors may be able to detail a lot of their evidence against trump at a pretrial fact finding hearing. as "the new york times" reports, if judge chutkan sticks to her practice of dealing quickly with

procedural matters and is able to schedule the hearing for september or october, it could lead to something extraordinary. a mini trial of sorts unfolding in the nation's capital in what could be the homestretch of the presidential campaign. i want to bring in senior msnbc political contributor matthew dowd, glen kirschner is a former federal prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst, paul butler is a former federal prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst as well. also, a georgetown law professor. and nbc's vaughn hillyard joins me here on set. let's start, vaughn, with what we just learned about the hush money case in new york city. what can you tell us? >> within hours of the supreme court's decision coming yesterday, donald trump's defense attorneys in the hush money trial, they wrote a letter to judge merchan requesting they have the opportunity to put forward a brief that would call for this trial to all be but thrown out and the guilty verdict to be tossed. not because the case that they make is the fact that the

charges that were brought against him were covered by that immunity decision, but instead that the evidence that was presented before the jury potentially would fall under immunity protections, that includes public statements that donald trump made, tweets that were entered in as evidence by the district attorney's office, in the supreme court decision. it was clear that some statements fall within the perimeter of what amounts to be official work that donald trump is communicating with the american public at large. and so just here in the last few hours, the prosecutors from the district attorney's office, they wrote to judge merchan as well saying they were okay with delaying the sentencing beyond july 11th of next week as long as they have the opportunity to have a two-week window to respond to whatever that brief is that comes from the defense team for donald trump. so, the likelihood is high that we will not have a sentencing of donald trump come next week. >> glen, trump's team is arguing that once the judge looks at all this, the verdict, quote, cannot

stand. is it possible that the whole verdict would get thrown out? >> chris, i would say possible, but very unlikely. this was private conduct, not official conduct of a president. now, true, some of the things that donald trump did and some of the evidence that was introduced against him occurred at a time that he was president, for example, he is making repayments to michael cohen, his co-conspirator in this corrupt hush money scheme designed to bury deeply damaging information so he could gain unfair advantage in the presidential election. the 2016 election. and, of course, they falsified business records to cover it all up. so i think there will be a hearing held, but it doesn't feel like this is necessarily going to be a difficult call. i can see judge merchan after hearing concluding this really was all nonofficial conduct, even if there were some tweets and some statements that donald trump made while president and

he will probably rule that, you know, the lion's share of the evidence is untainted by this new supreme court ruling, that we're still all trying to figure out the parameters of. and i would be really surprised if he granted a motion for, for example, a new trial. >> as everyone is trying to figure out parameters, paul, let me ask you about the january 6th case. i brought up this idea of a fact finding hearing, the times actually called it a mini trial. it seems to be something totally new. do we have any idea how it will even work? >> well, the court yesterday in its seismic decision said that in terms of immunity, there are three categories of presidential acts, so if it is a private act, there is no immunity, if it is a core constitutional responsibility, there is absolute immunity. for that, think of things like granting pardons, or vetoing legislation. so even if the president took a

bribe for granting a pardon because it is a core constitutional responsibility, he can never be prosecuted. the third category is what is at issue in jack smith's trial. there are official acts that are not for executive powers, but there is a presumption of immunity. if prosecutors can demonstrate that prosecuting the president for one of those acts poses no danger of intrusion on the authority and functions of the executive branch, then the prosecutors can bring the case. so, judge chutkan will be able to have a hearing to determine the acts that are charged in the indictment or any of those remaining prosecutable, that is do they fall into this third category for which prosecutors can overcome the presumption of immunity. the practical effect of that is that we could have a mini trial before the election without a jury but it could very well include some of the evidence

that we don't know now that folks on the january 6th committee, for example, know about, they weren't allowed to publicize that, but they think that could make a difference in the way -- people know all they know about what trump did on january 6th, that could make a big difference. >> so, glen, there is a federal statute, i'm not sure it has been necessarily followed so well, that requires judges to set trial dates that account for, and i'm quoting here, the best interests of the public. judge chutkan has shown a propensity to move quickly to be decisive. based on what we know of her, how do you think she might move forward and how quickly? >> quickly and decisively. that is the tanya chutkan i know from decades ago when i used to try murder cases against her in the courts of washington, d.c. she is smart, she is no nonsense, she's fierce and fearless. that's the way she was as a criminal defense attorney, public defender, that's the way she has been ever since she was appointed to the federal bench.

and here is the upside. we're always looking for a little bit of silver lining. these could be very broad evidentiary hearings because she's going to have to tackle questions of, okay, what might be official conduct and what is private conduct. what statements might fall under the immunity that the supreme court has set up and what statements might be free to be used at trial. so, you know, just to decide those issues, jack smith is going to have to lay perhaps not all of his cards on the table, but a whole lot of his evidentiary cards on the table and, chris, prosecutors ordinarily hate to do that in advance of trial. we don't want to preview our case. i think everything may be turned on its head and the american people, i think, would be keenly interested in seeing all of the evidence jack smith has amassed and they might get a chance to see it in the context of these hearings. >> matthew, even if this happens, this is not a trial, again, i want to be clear about

what this is, it is a hearing, no jury, no verdict. without that, do you think it could have a political impact? >> well, what we have learned in the last week or so that -- we have less than 130 days to election day. and we have two candidates, both have a series of questions for different reasons, totally different reasons in different priorities and have raised around them. so i think where we have voters today, if you take the base of the voters out of this, the democratic base and the republican base, you have voters looking at this, this election right now, independents and swing voters, looking at this election, have two candidates they don't want to vote for, neither of one of them. they know they have to choose and they're looking for any piece of information or argument that they can actually finally decide where do i go in the course of this election? my worry, i believe in the system and i believe in accountability and i believe in all that, there has been such a

deluge of stuff that we have seen over the last few years and especially the last few months that i worry that voters are going to -- their agency -- they're going to feel like their agency is no longer applicable in this election. and that there is so much stuff that they feel like it is overwhelmed by it, they start removing themselves from the system. so, yes, on one hand, i think because voters are looking for a cue in this election, unusual election, to decide this and it could hinge on anything, but, two, because there is so much stuff, i worry that voters are going to start turning it off and say it is too much, it is too much, no more. >> yeah, the president tried to message last night, right, in the wake of what happened with the supreme court. let me play just a little bit of joe biden last night. >> now the american people have to do what the courts should have been willing to do, but were not. the american people have to render a judgment about donald trump's behavior. the american people must decide whether donald trump's assault

on our democracy on january 6th makes him unfit for public office in the highest office of the land. >> democrats clearly think the supreme court decision adds new rocket fuel to the president's messaging about the dangers trump poses in the way that i think a lot of them are hoping now that maybe some of what comes out about january 6th does it as well. but back to your point, i wonder when does it get confusing, when does it get overwhelming, or when does it just get to the point where voters say enough? >> well, i think that's incumbent upon the president and the campaign, their campaign, to make this a very simple election choice. and take the personalities out of it and make it a very simple election choice. and i think how unprecedented, and dangerous, the supreme court decision was yesterday. it does provide a way to underline that choice. to me, fundamentally, the biden campaign ought to make this about a choice between democracy

versus dictatorship. liberty versus lawlessness. fascism versus freedom. the constitution versus corruption. it ought to be a big question over, like, what is going to happen in this country on january 20th, 2025, and they have to simplify the message to the basic thing and use the supreme court as evidence of what donald trump wants to do. >> glen, there is also the possibility that the supreme court decision could impact the classified documents case in florida. and i think one aspect of it really stuck out to me where justice clarence thomas questioned whether jack smith was legally appointed. i think that's the same argument trump's lawyers made, right? so could thomas' remarks have an impact on the florida case? >> that sure felt like a message that was designed directly for judge aileen cannon, who is presiding over donald trump's

prosecution in florida. and in my estimation, what justice thomas did was absolutely inappropriate. it was something of an advisory opinion, an issue that had not been briefed or argued, it was not properly part of the case. actually the supreme court dating back to 1911 said they do not issue advisory opinions. that's what this was. it was justice thomas ruminating and sending a message to judge cannon that, hey, here is an issue that at least i am interested in. we don't know if the other justices are. but, boy, it was really inappropriate for him to use a case and inject a completely unrelated issue to send a message to judge cannon. >> glen kirschner, matthew dowd, paul butler, vaughn hillyard, thank you so much. breaking news, rudy giuliani has been permanently disbarred in new york. the state where he once made his

reputation as both mayor and top prosecutor. it comes on the heels of a temporary suspense that was put in place in 2021. today's court filing accuses the former mayor of lying about the 2020 election and flagrantly misusing his position saying, quote, the seriousness of his misconduct cannot be overstated. giuliani who already is bankrupt and facing criminal indictments in georgia and arizona is said to be disappointed in the decision and looking into his legal options. coming up in 90 seconds, homes destroyed, lives up ended by life threatening winds and flooding in the caribbean. now, as category 5 hurricane beryl barrels toward jamaica, the effect we will here in the u.s. and when. that's next. here in the u.s. and when. that's next. from the same network that powers our phones. (aaron) so whatever's next... we're cooking with fire. (vo) switch to the partner businesses rely on.

right now, the earliest category 5 hurricane in recorded history is careening toward the southern u.s., just as president biden is at the d.c. emergency operations center for an operational briefing. let's listen. >> i apologize for my back. very impolite. thank you very much. you're doing a hell of a job, all of you. thanks for the introduction and joining me today at d.c. emergency operations center. i want to thank the first responders who risk their lives every single day running into danger to save others, when

everyone is running away from danger. i'm here to talk about how we're preparing and responding to the dangerous impacts of extreme weather and the climate crisis that is affecting people all around america. all around the country. matter of fact, beyond around america. summer has just started. already, already tens of millions of americans are under heat warnings from record shattering temperatures. last month here in d.c. temperatures of 100 degrees. in phoenix, arizona, 112 degrees. las vegas, 111 degrees. above normal temperatures also are expected for much of the country in july, especially in central and eastern united states. extreme heat, this is will surprise a lot of people, not you all, extreme heat is a number one weather related killer in the united states. more people die from extreme heat than floods, hurricanes, and tornadoes combined. say that again. combined. more people die from heat than

those three other major issues. and, look, right now we're also tracking hurricane beryl, which is passing through the caribbean. it is the earliest time ever a dangerous category 5 hurricane has been recorded in american history. people impacted in the islands and the communities are in our prayers and we stand by to provide assistance to them. look, extreme weather drives home a point i've been saying for so long. ignoring climate change is deadly and dangerous and irresponsible. these events don't just affect people's lives, they cost money, they hurt the economy, and they have a significant negative psychological effect on people. last year, the largest weather related disasters cost over $90 billion in damages in america. $90 billion in damages. that's the cost so far, last year. they drove nearly 2.5 million people out of their homes from

hawaii to vermont. these events also pose serious threats to our nation's transportation system to our power grid, farms, fisheries and forest. in each case, costing lives and costing money and the impacts are only going to get worse, more frequent, more ferocious and most vulnerable people in the most hardest hit communities in the world. look, you know, we can change all that. it is in our power. that's why today i'm announcing five new actions my administration is taking to address extreme weather including heat and other hazards. the first, the department of labor is posing a new rule and when finalized will establish the nation's first ever federal safety standard for excessive heat in the workplace. this includes things like developing response plans to heat illness. training employees and supervisors, implementing -- access to shade and water. you think we would have to tell people, access to shade and water, but, i mean, easing new

employees into heat environments. across the country, workers suffer heat stroke or die, just doing their jobs. this new rule will substantially reduce heat injuries, illnesses and deaths for over 36 million workers, from farm workers to construction workers, postal workers, manufacturing workers and so much more. i want to thank vice president harris for the work she's done since she was in the united states senate that led to this rule. second, the coming days, my federal emergency management will also finalize a rule to improve our nation's resilience against flooding, resilience. fema will now factor in the effects of future flooding for any federally funded construction project. that is look at what caused damage, what broke down, and what the best way to repair it is. not just bring it back to what it was, but prioritize making it better. prioritize nature-based

solutions to reduce risk of floods. look, third, fema is announcing -- excuse me -- nearly $1 billion in grants for over 650 projects across the country, including extreme heat, storms and flooding. these grants will also help advance my justice 40 initiative, to deliver at least 40% of overall benefits of clean transit, clean energy and climate investment to devastated communities, poor communities left behind. fourth, the environmental protection agency is releasing a new report showing the continued impacts of climate change and the health of the american people and on our environment. this report will help us prepare better, respond faster, and save more lives. fifth, my administration will convene the first ever white house summer on extreme heat, bringing together state, local, tribal and territorial leaders and international partners who

are protected communities and workers from extreme weather every single solitary day. along with these actions, another reason why we're here today is you get the word out, so folks know these resources are available to them and anyone who needs them. my brother -- you got to know how to know. we think everybody understands the government. it is complicated. we want the american people to know help is here, how to get that help, follow the guidance from local leaders and public safety officials, stay indoors, somewhere cool. if you're vulnerable. be careful on hot pavement. know the signs of heat stroke like headache, nausea and dizziness. and always have water with you whenever you're outside this summer. today's announcements build on historic action my administration has taken to address extreme heat events. we launched a new website,

heat.gov. heat.gov. it shares life saving information and links on new heat risk tool to help communities forecast extreme heat. just enter your zip code and see the heat forecast not only generically, generally, but in your community, where you live. it will tell you the heat forecast for your neighborhood. the department of labor created the first ever national program to protect workers from heat stress. we invested billions to enhance our power grid, expand energy shortages so that lights, air conditioning, refrigeratrefrige internet, stay on during heat waves and storms and other climate changes. all told we invested more than $50 billion for climate resiliency, including against extreme heat and wildfires. that's not all. the american rescue plan is helping states with energy efficiency, reduce the impacts

from flooding and open cooling centers. people have to know where to go, where they can go in their neighborhood. it is not just automatic. through the bipartisan infrastructure law, we're delivering over $20 billion to lower your energy costs, upgrading the electric grid to withstand stronger heat waves and storms. and my inflation reduction act has already created 300,000 new jobs, building clean energy we need to cut our emissions and to lead the world. unfortunately, my predecessor and the maga republicans in congress are trying to undo all this progress. they still deny climate change even exists. they deny climate change even exists. they must be living in a hole somewhere, at the expense of health and safety of their own constituents. they deny it exists.

many are trying to repeal climate provisions and kill those jobs. i think it is not only outrageous, it is really stupid. everyone who denies the impacts of climate changes is condemning the american people of a dangerous future and is either really, really dumb or has some other motive. how can you deny there is climate change? let me close with this. when disaster strikes, there are no red states or blue states, i've demonstrated that. i said no matter whether you vote for me or not, everyone gets treated fairly. through just communities, not red communities, blue communities, just communities, families looking for help. my administration is going to be there every step of the way. just said, remember who we are, we're the united states of america. the united states of america. there is nothing, nothing, nothing beyond our capacity if we work together. god bless you all. we're just getting started here,

man. i'm confident we're going to get this done. i want to turn it over to clint osborne, director of the -- acting director of d.c. homeland security and management agency to tell you about his team's incredible work on the front lines for extreme weather events. where are you, pal? [ applause ] >> president biden at the d.c. emergency operations center talking about the dangerous impact of extreme weather, warning about the impact of climate change and how deadly it can be. it is a contrast with the stated position of donald trump, but it is also a time when people are watching these kinds of events more closely than they might otherwise in this post debate week where a lot of americans and many democrats and members of congress are raising questions about his mental and physical capacity to be president. we know it is a source of concern to many americans. we saw there, for example, that

teleprompter panels were set up. over the weekend, many democrats expressed surprise, concern, taken aback is the way they put it because the president used a teleprompter to deliver brief remarks before a small crowd. let's bring in senior white house correspondent gabe gutierrez. i think it is fair to say people are watching kind of with bated breath now when the president makes an appearance how will he seem, how will he draw contrast to what a lot of americans thought was a disastrous performance on thursday night. talk about where the white house is right now in terms of post debate cleanup and trying to get the president out there? >> reporter: well, you noted that the president was speaking with the aid of a teleprompter there, something else i'm watching for is potentially at the end of this event, he may take any shouted questions from some of the reporters present. he did not do so at his remarks

last night when he talked about the supreme court decision on presidential immunity. but this comes as the campaign really tries to show that the president is out there, doing the job. and certainly this event and i'm looking right now apparently if he did take a question, i did not hear it. feel free to interrupt me if he answered. it doesn't look like he stood by very long and answered questions from reporters. this is an event, a central tenet of the boyden administration, climate change, an event planned before last week's debate. i'll run through a couple of things he talked about during this address and we'll talk more about how the biden administration is responding, following the debate. the administration is proposing that new rule today to address excessive heat in the workplace, something that it says will affect 36 million u.s. workers from injuries related to heat and administration says that 2300 americans died from

heat-related illnesses last year. as you said, chris, this comes as the white house and the campaign are in full damage control mode. last night they held a large conference call with hundreds of donors and within the past few minutes, we have our first statement from a democrat in the house of representatives, lloyd doggett, calling on president biden to leave this race saying he hopes that he'll make the painful decision. now, i just spoke with campaign official in the last few minutes, the response i got was, he's staying in. chris? >> gabe gutierrez, thank you for that. we see the president there, moving amongst some of the people who work there at the emergency operations center. again, we have not heard yet what the question was that might have been asked of him or if he answered. if we get that information, we'll let you know. his remarks come as hurricane beryl is devastating the caribbean islands, killing at least two people, decimating entire towns. it is leaving behind roads,

drowned in rivers of debris, roof tiles, downed power lines, fallen trees all scattered across deep water. video shows water crashing through hotels in barbados as the storm hit, sending people scrambling away from the powerful waves. emergency teams say their priority is clearing those water-logged roads to move people into temporary housing. joining me now is nbc meteorologist bill karins. this is the largest storm the caribbean has seen in more than 170 years. how bad could it get? and what impact might we feel in the u.s.? >> it is amazing how timely the remarks were with this unprecedented record shattering storm that hit the exact same time, talking about climate change and preparing for the future in our country. this storm shattered all the records still a category 5. next up, jamaica, it looks like for the southern coastline of haiti, the storm is going to get

close, and have to slap it, not like the full on impact. right now the storm is probably as strong as it is going to get. it will slowly weaken from here. but it is 160-mile-per-hour storm near the center of the storm. you see the well defined eye. the right side is stronger as wind shear is starting to weaken. not soon enough for our friends in jamaica. they're preparing for one of the worst hurricanes they have seen in a long time. between a category 4 or 3, when it goes through at this time tomorrow. the northern side is the stronger side and that would be right through all through the country. after that, we take you towards cancun, cozumel, maybe northern belize, if it is more toward cancun, that's worse for texas. further to the south, over mexico longer, it will be weakened more, better for south texas and northern new mexico. you see the cone of uncertainty

to corpus christi and brownsville. it will not be the beast of the storm it is now, but all of our computer models are trending north. everyone from corpus christi, san padre island, brownsville, has to make preparations for this holiday. it could be as early as sunday it gets near you. let me show you the latest guidance. we have two long range computer models. our u.s. model and our european molle. the european model is a little more accurate and that's why the hurricane center has been deeping the track more to the south and new mexico. latest update has this going in as a category 1 or 2 hurricane into south texas on sunday or sunday night. the new update we get in the next hour, if this shifts north, expect the hurricane center to shift that forecast north also. people south texas, have all your hurricane preparations just in case. we hope it misses you.

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we have some breaking news for first time a sitting democrat has called on president biden to withdraw from the 2024

race. texas democratic congressman lloyd doggett writing in a press release, president biden saved our democracy by delivering us from trump in 2020. he must not deliver us to trump in 2024. five days after his disastrous debate performance, two other members of congress are also raising some serious questions. >> like a lot of people, i was pretty horrified. >> i think the campaign has got to listen to people and, by the way, i think the campaign needs to listen to us. >> nbc news reports that as of last night, joe biden still has not reached out to congressional leaders. the campaign did hold an urgent call with hundreds of nervous finance committee members and one donor told nbc they were not convinced. the campaign is also circulating a poll showing no change in the race since the debate. and the dispatch reports on a meeting between top campaign officials and prominent never trumpers. their intended message, the president should drop out of the race. michael warren is senior editor

at the dispatch, peter baker is "the new york times" chief white house correspondent, and julian castro, former hud secretary and 2020 democratic presidential candidate. both peter and julian are msnbc political analysts. moments ago, the biden campaign responded to doggett's comments and said simply, he's staying in. but do you think the floodgates could open or if not at least a trickle of others among the democratic -- among democrats in congress to say the same thing? >> that's what they're trying to do by saying he's staying in by leave nothing window open. but that doesn't necessarily mean the issue is settle. the other day i asked a biden person, they said i know today's decision, i don't know tomorrow's decision. and i think that's key to this. this is an open question here. i think he seems likelier to stay in than not. but if more elected officials start coming out, start seeing polls showing real trouble particularly in the down ballot races in red states or

competitive districts, and if the donors start to melt away, you know, you can see a very different circumstance here. >> secretary castro, you staked your 2020 campaign partly on the idea that joe biden was too old. you got a lot of criticism from inside the party as a result. now as you watch this debate roiling within the party four years later, i wonder what you make of the decision by congressman doggett and particularly the line he wrote in his statement, he must not deliver us to trump in 2024. >> yeah, i mean, i should begin by saying that i campaigned against joe biden. i served with him in the obama administration, the obama/biden administration, i watched him the last three and a half years, he's done an excellent job as president. it is also true that he is not the campaigner that he was in 2020 and the debate was just one more indicator of this. this has been coming for a long

time. and for some time now, voters in polls and focus groups have been saying the same thing. we think that there is a candidate stronger than joe biden in 2024 for democrats to run and to beat donald trump. and that, i think, is only intensified so far, early polling after the debate has shown this. i think what happened with congressman doggett, for who himself has been in office for a long time, he's seen a lot of things as an office holder, as politician and represents basically austin in texas, i think this is going to open the floodgates. i actually don't see a path now for president biden to stay in this race in the long-term. when you have now a member of congress, probably more, coming out against him, you have "the new york times" editorial board, and sure that's elite circles and so forth, but in a lot of ways this is also what has propped up joe biden, even as everyday regular voters in poll after poll and focus groups have

said, hey, we think that the party should go in a different direction. so this is what was keeping him still in the race. i think now that that support is diminishing significantly, i don't think he's going to have a leg to stand on for very long. >> the other thing keeping him in the race, as you know, is and he stated it often, that he believes he's the one, only one, he says, sometimes, who can beat donald trump. and you say you don't see a path. so, do you combine those two things. to do you think he should drop out of the race? >> in the writeup today, i think he made a very good point. he didn't say it directly, but essentially the biden campaign shifted the goal post. they used to say he's the best positioned, he's the strongest candidate, and as shane said, watch me. now they're basically saying trust me. they're saying he said the other day i believe in my heart that i

can do this. but that's not going to be enough for the american public. what they want to know is they want to have the confidence he can campaign, he can prosecute the case against trump. look at where we're at. donald trump is the most faulty, vulnerable, corrupt opponent that you can have, in 2024. we should be talking about his 34 felony counts that he has unprecedented levels of corruption and instead, democrats are on their heels having to defend joe biden and the baggage that he brings with him, that if you switch candidates, that's a different story. you're able to prosecute the case against trump with the candidate and also you're focused on trump's baggage instead of anything on the democratic side. yes, i believe there are stronger options out there for democrats. we have a stable of folks that i think could do a better job, including vice president harris who today in a poll was within two points of donald trump where as president biden was six

points behind donald trump. >> you believe joe biden should drop out of the race? >> i believe that another democrat would have a better shot at beating trump and because as congressman doggett said in his statement that it is too risky to let donald trump walk into this in november, yeah, i think the democrats would do well to find a different candidate. >> there are a lot of democrats as you know, peter, who are trying to find help. joe biden find a path forward. just last hour, with andrea mitchell, speaker emerita nancy pelosi was on the air. i want to play for you what she said about this. >> my recommendation to -- is for him to have some interviews with serious journalists, you among them, serious journalists, no holds barred, any question is fair, and just sit there and be joe. not one, maybe two, a couple of

those. i think that is essential. >> so, peter, look, there are -- there is a clock ticking, right? because there isn't a lot of time, if someone else is going to run for president for the democratic party. i wonder what you're hearing from democrats. i wonder if you think that this could move quickly enough for this to actually happen and when you have people like julian castro who served alongside joe biden, who know joe biden, who have only good things to say about the first term of his presidency, is there still a chance that this moves in that direction, that joe biden is replaced? >> yeah, first of all, i would say by the way the white house has my phone number if they're look for an interviewer, we're ready. but it is true that he has not been giving interviews over the course of his presidency. they have shielded him. i think that's one of the reasons why people wonder about whether the debate night performance was an aberration or

not. he's given fewer interviews, martha kumar has done this study. he's given fewer news conferences than any president. none of these newspapers have had interviews with him, which is traditional with all kinds of presidents of both parties. that's, i think, been a choice that they have made. now, as to democrats, i think, you know, you saw secretary castro's comments right now, there is a huge reservoir of goodwill toward president biden in the party. the democrats who are angsting now, hand wringing right now are not angry at president biden per se, they're not losing faith in him per se, what they're losing faith in is the ability to stop donald trump. and that's the big number one question for democrats right now, who can stop donald trump. that's a roll of the dice. the question is it a bigger roll of the dice to stick with president biden given what we saw at the debate, given what we know has happened so far, or is

it a bigger roll of the dice to try somebody who hasn't been tested on the stage like kamala harris, like gavin newsom or gretchen whitmer. >> a concern that goes not just to democrats, but also to many conservatives and republicans who consider themselves to be never trumpers, that brings me to you, michael, you reported that a biden campaign officials were to meet with prominent never trumpers. i wonder what that relationship had been with the campaign prior to the meeting and did they call for the president to drop out of the race? >> the never trumpers are the biggest part of the biden coalition. they're maybe the important canary in the coal mine in terms of where the coalition is able to grow or not grow. i think that is a big concern that biden and democrats should have. you heard from a number of the people who were set to attend

this meeting, which took place yesterday morning, in washington, bill kristol, mike murphy, very vocal beforehand since the debate and urging biden to drop out. this meeting was on the books before the debate. the meeting as far as we understand happened. you can look at the number of people we reached out to who we knew attended this meeting got back to us after the meeting, it might be a sign they were not successful in convincing the biden campaign that they think biden should drop out. we did get a statement from the biden campaign. it -- i can read a bit of it for you. there is place in our coalition for americans who care about the future of democracy, standing strong with our allies who have been foreign adversaries and working across the aisle to get

things done. only one candidate shares those values and only one campaign is working hard every day to earn their support. and that's president biden's. i message that suggests biden doesn't want to go anywhere, isn't listening or could care to listen about what the leading members of his coalition have to say. doggett, castro just now, the pressure might bounce and that's a small part, this never trump movement of melting that pressure and urging biden to trop out. >> i want to go back to your decision, mr. secretary. i'm sure on a personal level as someone who thinks that joe biden among many people who know him. it was not an easy decision. i wonder as a political decision, this was not so hard for you and look, joe biden considers himself and there's lots of evidence that shows that he is a patriot.

what will it take to bring him to the belief that perhaps he is not the best one to run against donald trump? that in fact, he may be someone who could deliver the white house back to donald trump? i know that's a two-part question, but if i may. >> joe biden for four decades, has dedicated himself to progress in this country. he's been a true patriot. given his life to public service. so i think if he feels, when he feels, if he feels through polling, through you know, folks in congress, through other leadership in the party that it's time, and believes there's another candidate out there that can do a better job. that has the ability to prosecute the case against trump. and there's quite a case to prosecute. stands a better chance than he does of winning in november, than i believe that he will step aside. because i think he feels that genuinely for the country, wants

to do what's in its best interest. this was an instinct he had in 2020. he just about said i only intend to be a bridge to the next generation. to serve out a term then hand it off to other leadership. it's not like he's never thought about this, but given the events of the last week, i think he's thinking about it right now more than ever and i believe ultimately he's going to make the decision to withdraw. >> thank you all very much. up next, nasa now insisting two of its astronauts are not stuck in space despite a major delay in their return home. we've got those details after this. n home we've got those details after this why use 10 buckets of water when you can use 1 fire extinguisher. and to fight heartburn, why take 10 antacids throughout the day when you can take 1 prilosec. for easier heartburn relief, one beats ten. prilosec otc. one pill. 24 hours. zero heartburn. starting a business is never easy,

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nothing to see here. that's essentially what nasa is saying as two astronauts are

unexpectedly extending their stay aboard the international space station. >> reporter: on board the international space station, sunny williams and butch willmore are still waiting to learn when they might return home. >> everything's been fantastic. the spacecraft is handled remarkably well. >> reporter: two weeks ago, they provided a tour of their spaceship. >> and liftoff of star liner atlas 5. >> reporter: built by boeing, it launched on june 5th, five years behind schedule after a series of engineering setbacks. then once this space, more problems. five helium leaks, which nasa says aren't a major concern, but more concerning, five engine thrusters shutdown as star liner prepared to dock with the space station. while four came back online, nasa wants to understand the

problem before star liner leaves the station. this is their only chance because that section of the ship that contains the thrusters, the service module, is designed to burn up on reentry. so astronauts williams and willmore's ten-day visit is turning into a week's long stay. >> i want to make it very clear that butch and suni are not stranded in space. our plan is to return them on starliner and return them home at the right time. >> there's plenty of food, plenty of resources up there. plenty of clothing. they will be fine. >> reporter: before they launched, i asked if they were confident. does this spaceship feel like it's ready for prime time? >> yes. that's the short answer. absolutely, yes, that's the long answer. >> reporter: on the ground in new mexico they'll address the thruster problems. that's expected to take at least

two weeks leaving a return date up in the air. >> no pun intended. thank you, tom costello. coming up, a terrifying scene above the atlantic. what left a passenger stuck in an overhead bin. stay close. more chris jansing reports right after this. chris jansing report after this ♪ ♪ have you always had trouble losing weight and keeping it off? same. discover the power of wegovy®. ♪ ♪ with wegovy®, i lost 35 pounds. and some lost over 46 pounds.

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