he isn't quiet for long. i would be surprised if we didn't hear from him soon. >> julia, i am still waiting to hear what a black job is. national politics reporter for the hill, julia manchester. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> and thank you, folks, for getting up way too early with us. don't go anywhere because "morning joe" starts right now. it sounds like you are not entirely convinced that he has convinced people that he can do it. you're leaving the door open. >> well, i am. it is open. let's be candid. what we saw can't be unseen. that was an unsteady performance and raised questions about his physical condition. and that the campaign itself has acknowledged, and it's important for us. we have an obligation as a party committed to serving the future of our democracy. i happen to have a lot of confidence in president biden when he makes his final decision

will do it on the basis as he's always done of what's best for this country, how can he best serve. big decisions for the president. >> that was democratic senator of vermont, peter welch, criticizing the biden campaign saying it should acknowledge concerns about the president's poor debate performance and not dismiss them. this one democrat is publicly calling for biden to bow out of the race. we'll tell you who it is and what this means for the party's unified front. plus, for the first time, we're getting an explanation from biden about his debate performance on what he's now blaming for his disappointing showing. also ahead, why judge juan merchan decided to delay trump's sentencing in his criminal hush money case in the wake of the supreme court's immunity ruling. and, rudy giuliani is officially disbarred from practicing law in new york over

his false 2020 election claims. we'll have all that straight ahead. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is wednesday, july 3rd. along with willie and me, we have the co-host of msnbc's "the weekend" getting up way too early, and white house reporter at politico, eli stokels. willie, a lot of calls for the president to make calls, and my sources are telling me he's going to make them simmer. but here we go. >> he will sit down with george stephanopoulos of abc news. all this talk around the president, the pressure ratcheting up to make a decision. and president biden made his latest and most candid remarks last night about his matchup with donald trump during a campaign fund-raiser in virginia. that was last night. the president apologized for his

lackluster debate performance blaming it on his extensive travel in the weeks before. he told the crowd, he didn't listen to his staff and joked he almost fell asleep on stage adding, quote, this is not an excuse but an explanation. the president had traveled to france for the 80th anniversary of d-day in early june and italy and los angeles. he returned to washington june 16th, 11 days before the debate. "the new york times" is taking a look at president biden in the weeks and months before his debate performance. the paper reports, quote, mr. biden was drained enough from the back-to-back trips to europe his team cut his debate preparation by two days so he could rest-ace house. in the weeks and months leading up to the debate. those who encountered him behind closed doors noticed he appeared confused or listless. mr. biden, 81, has long

experienced instances in which he mangled a sentence, forgot a name or mixed up a few facts, even though he could be sharp and engaged most of the time. people in the room with him more recently said the lapses are growing more frequent, more pronounced and more worrisome, seem more likely when he was in a large crowd or tired after a particularly bruising schedule. so, eli, you're part of a reporting team for politico including our buddy jonathan lemire out with a new piece entitled "we've all enabled the situation." fill us in more on what you're hearing. >> thanks, willie. we talked to more than two dozen people close to this administration, the senior staff. it's understandable that there would be a lot of frustration and finger pointing and a lot of that has been directed at the five or six very senior aides

who people throughout the party are blaming for cloistering the president, trying their best to manage the age situation to mitigate coverage of that, to really attack coverage by the media and, more than anything, to come up with the rationale he has to run for a second term. one person told us that was a conversation that just never expanded beyond the senior group, all of whom would ben efit by the president getting another four years and this team has been resistant to bringing in other opinions, to changing course. there's a lot of frustrations not just about the debate, the decision to do it, how the president was prepped, but, also, just with how the president has not been able to lift his numbers. they look at the people who have been running this campaign for over a year from delaware, some from within the white house, unofficially, and they say these people are not involved the

numbers. joe biden has not addressed his deficit. you have the same people cutting the ads, the same people figuring out how they're going to deploy the president, and the same who, despite their very up close knowledge and seeing the president every day and realizing his limitations, they came up with this rationale for him to run anyway, that he's the only person who has ever beaten donald trump and he has to be the candidate again. now the view across the party, at least among the people we talked to, is that seems to be a pretty self-serving and maybe delusional case for another four years. >> eli, the argument we heard last night from president biden that he had been traveling in you're, that's true. as i pointed out, he had been home for 11 days and been resting at camp david for a week by the time the debate took place, which reinforces the point, does it not, he needed 11 days to rest before a debate and still performed is that way.

is that the argument they're going to go with for his performance on thursday? >> well, they keep kind of adjusting the argument, which is a tell in and of itself. at first it was just a bad night, and now it's, oh, i was traveling 11 days before the debate. granted, those were grueling trips going from italy to los angeles, doing the fund-raiser after two trips to you're. that is a lot before the debate and some people were nervous of that ahead of time. the discrepancies here, the changing picture, none of this is reassuring democrats who are concerned about the sustainability of biden's candidacy, the shifting explanations are not reassuring to people. though this is obviously damage control, an effort to keep the trains on track in a very difficult moment, it's also a huge shift for this white house that for 3 1/2 years, up until this point, insisted nothing was wrong and even a suggestion the president had aged or lost a

step, which they are explicit about to explain the debate, that suggestion was dismissed out of hand. reporters were attacked for writing it and suggesting things in plain sight about the president being very slow, say, to get into his motorcade, not taking the big steps down from the main door of air force one, using the lower steps because there are fewer steps to climb, all of those things, so much frustration and now suddenly they're acknowledging the obvious, the president has lost a step since four years ago. >> he's 81. tamping down concerns within the party, president biden will speak with democratic governors tonight. three sources say the details are still being hashed out, but it comes after governors held a phone call on monday to discuss

the party's path forward, nbc news has learned biden's cheech of staff jeff zients will hold an all-staff call this afternoon where he is expected to tell staff members to weather the storm and keep your heads down. the president spoke with hakeem jeffries by phone yesterday, the first reported conversation between biden and a member of congressional leadership since the debate. that comes as lloyd doggett of texas called on president biden to drop out of the race. here is what he told hallie jackson about the president's debate perfect importantliance and what he's hearing from voters in his district. >> i would say that the input from my constituents has been 10 to 1 in favor of replacing joe biden on the ticket. you would think after the

performance he would be engaging not with a teleprompter but with one reporter after another to answer the hard questions that are out there. i think that's more important to me than a cognitive test or anything else is to demonstrate that last thursday was an aberration and he's ready to answer all the hard questions again and again. the engagement we need to have if he chooses to stay in the race. i hope he will put country first. i know trump would never do that. that he will put country first and decide to step aside, given us a fair, open, democratic, with a small d, convention. >> jim, your piece with mike allen for axios this morning, for your behind the curtain column, is entitled "democrats rage at biden rises." >> we've talked to dozens of house members, most aren't going to go on the record yet. the ones who will go on the

record already have. they're furious. they're just not buying it. now i would say they're madder about the response to the debate than the debate itself. they can't believe he's deflecting and saying it's much ado about nothing. now this idea an 11-day jet lag would cause you to have a poor debate performance strikes them as a crazy explanation for it. if you're a member of congress, to be honest, all you care about is your voters first and your donors second. yeah, you like the president if he helps you, but if he doesn't, you will turn on him because you care about self-preservation, so they're talking to donors. donors are furious. voters are telling them what lloyd doggett's voters are telling him, which is we want him to step aside. that's why yesterday we talked to several people who were on multiple calls with a lot of members, and when there was a show of hands or, hey, should he stay in, almost nobody said that he should stay in. they want hakeem jeffries, they want chuck schumer, the two

democratic leaders, to go in and talk to him and have a very serious conversation about getting out of the race before the convention so they can have a messy but orderly transition to somebody else. they believe, and i think they're right, that the biden family and the biden staff are trying to keep anything who might make that case to biden away from biden. he started to make calls yesterday, you are connected, but it took a while. people who love the president, have been with him at the beginning, who want to have this gut check with him whether or not he could not only lose the presidency but cost them the house and the senate. you toss in that supreme court ruling and you have democrats saying this could be an existential threat to our party's majority in their own personal views. >> so vice president kamala harris is defending president biden amid calls for him to bow out. in response to congressman doggett speaking out against

biden's candidacy harris staunchly stood by the president. >> speaking about stakes, you just came out of a fund-raiser. we know many in your party have expressed concerns about president biden's health. doggett said he's calling on him to withdraw from the race given there's too much at stake to risk a trump victory. what's your response to this? >> look, joe biden is our nominee. we beat trump once. we're going to beat him again. period. >> are you ready to lead the country if necessary? >> i am proud to be joe biden's running mate. thank you. >> harris also acknowledged biden's disappointing performance saying it was not his finest hour but added the election cannot be decided one day in june because the stakes are so high. jim clyburn who played a key role in joe biden winning the presidency in 2020, spoke with andrea mitchell yesterday.

andrea asked him about a potential kamala harris presidency. >> if he decides to step down, and he has to decide that, or the party pressures him to do that, how would you feel if they worked around and tried to go around kamala harris because of her lack of high poll numbers and popularity? do you think it is hers to have if not his? >> i will support her if he were to step aside. i want this ticket to be biden/harris, and then we'll see what happens after the next election. no, we should not do anything to work around ms. harris but do everything we can to bolster her

whether she is second or top of the ticket. >> simone, i'm curious what former presidents are saying from the clintons to the obamas to the bush family. i think it will be interesting to see how this plays out. you see congressman clyburn is standing firmly behind joe biden and kamala harris. >> congressman clyburn has proven to be one of their staunchest allies in politics, frankly. mika, as i was thinking about this this morning, i thought back to 2019-2020 when joe biden had swept south carolina. he swept the super tuesday states, and there were all these calls for the other democratic candidates in the race to step down. and then candidate biden, i

staunchly remember him being asked many different times about should amy klobuchar step out and he said him seven this is a personal decision, that candidates will have to make. he, himself, had to make that decision in the past and he would never call on someone else to drop out. i just had to juxtapose that with literally the onslaught of elected people and folks that have known the president for such a very long time privately and now some publicly calling for him to step down. to me, it was just astounding. i will say, mika, again and again, i think people need to talk to voters, because the elected officials and the donors, i think the donors and elected officials forget it is the voters who put the people in the positions. the donors help fuel campaigns and, frankly, given our party system, it doesn't work without them because of the money that is needed. hello citizens united.

but it is the people that elect the represent tichs from the president to governors to members of congress to mayors to state representatives. and much, much more focus, i think, needs to be put on the voters and what they are saying because it is them no will decide, who i think will be the biggest influence, on what unfolds. lastly, mika, i really think a lot of folks, as i've been reading the coverage and talking to folks, i don't know if people are very aware of the rules of the democratic national convention that there are rules that govern what happens if a nominee has accepted the nomination and then decides to step down or something happens and they're not the nominee, and there are not many rules, nonexistent, rules that exist if this all happens before the nominee accepts the nomination. >> right. >> it is not cut and dry. an orderly democratic process that people have described, that's called a primary process that already played out. so i don't know, mika. >> symone, we'll hear from some

you spoke to, a focus group, in pennsylvania after the debate. that's coming up in a few minutes. eli, reading through your piece, you write many have been by his side 40 years, put them together with his family as well, the advisers and the family, seem to be the ones who will make this decision ultimately. any sense the pressure where you're hearing people say elected democrats saying times time for biden to step april sed, has that message broken through that inner circle? >> they're definitely hearing it, they're aware of it. the interview with george stephanopoulos is obviously a sign they have heard some of these calls from lawmakers, that they know they have to fix this. they're trying to fix it. they're trying to reassure people. outreach has been slow. there were a lot of days went by

before the president started getting on the phone talking to the people who are important here. he'll meet with the governors today and has started talking to members of congress. i think that the campaign has pointed to polling and they've said, well, the debate has not changed the race. we're only starting to get a sense of the public's reaction to tuesday night what they saw from the president. i think symone is right, the public perception, public support. if we're looking at a place where states like new hampshire and minnesota are suddenly now in play for donald trump, that's not a race the president can win. i think his inner circle as cloistered as they have been, as much as they have tried to circle the wagons around the president in the last week or so, they are realists. they are seeing all these polls.

the president is seeing all these polls. and i'm sure if they continue to mount, if we hear more calls from more senior members of congress for him to consider stepping aside, i think that will weigh heavily on this president, certainly on the senior staff as well. >> by the way, that interview with george stephanopoulos takes place friday. i said it was today. it only feels like friday on fourth of july eve. jim, you are so plugged in to washington and have such good instincts. what is your sense how this might play out? a long fourth of july weekend coming up, a lot of time for the president to speak with his advisers and his family. and if he does, in fact, decide to take the extraordinary step of dropping out of the race, how confident in democrats in what's to come next? it's the great unknown whether it's kamala harris or it goes to the convention and something else happens. how are democrats feeling about, potentially, who could come after joe biden?

>> it will be about the vote terse. what you need to watch for are the polls. if you start to see states like minnesota, new mexico, new hampshire and virginia move towards trump, that's going to be -- that is going to be df efcon one. if you see polls for house races and senate races start to dip, that's when you will see intense pressure to go as a delegation or individually and talk to the president about stepping down. i think if that's going to happen, it probably happens over the next week to ten days. let's say that does happen. a lot say, yes, it's going to be messy. everything in politics is messy. but, if you have to pick a new ticket, there are advantages to that. you would come out of the convention with two much younger candidates. you would get a hell of a lot of attention because it would be a spectacle unlike anything seen in recent politics. the money would flow. people would figure out a way to get it to them and then you have

seven to eight weeks to proven this ticket is a superior alternative to trump. it's not like people are racing to embrace donald trump. they're racing to say we have deep concerns about president biden and his fitness for office given his age, performance and the debate. it's a logical position to have because they saw what we saw. you hear members of congress say you can't unsee what you saw. they're human, they have parents, grandparents, and see what happens. even the jet lag 11 days, you would say it would take them 11 days to recover. there's a human reaction to it. yes, it would be messy and unprecedented but it's not like it's unfounded. >> eli stokols, jim vandehei,

thank you. and still ahead on "morning joe," pennsylvania clinched the presidency for joe biden in 2020, but can he win the state again this november? symone, you spoke with a group of black women voters in the state. we'll hear what they had to say about the 2024 race. we're back in 90 seconds. to severe eczema disrupts my skin, night and day. despite treatment, it's still not under control. but now i have rinvoq. a once-daily pill that reduces the itch and helps clear the rash of eczema —fast. some taking rinvoq felt significant itch relief as early as 2 days— and some achieved dramatic skin clearance as early as 2 weeks. many saw clear or almost-clear skin. plus, many had clearer skin and less itch, even at 3 years. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal, cancers including lymphoma and skin,

heart attack, stroke, and gi tears occurred. people 50 and older with a heart disease risk factor have an increased risk of death. serious allergic reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. disrupt the itch & rash of eczema. talk to your dermatologist about rinvoq. learn how abbvie can help you save. - so this is pickleball? - pickle! ah, these guys are intense. with e*trade from morgan stanley, we're ready for whatever gets served up. dude, you gotta work on your trash talk. i'd rather work on saving for retirement. or college, since you like to get schooled. that's a pretty good burn, right? i'm andrea, and this is why i switched to shopify. it gave me so much peace of mind. if we make a change, my site's not going to go down. and just knowing that i have a platform that we can rely on, that is gold to us. start your free trial today. is democracy still america's

sacred cause? [ applause ] i mean it. this is not rhetorical, academic or hypothetical. democracy is still america's sacred cause is the most urgent question of our time, and it's what the 2024 election is all about. >> that was president biden at the start of the year outside the valley forge in blue bell, pennsylvania, in an event that was largely considered the launch of his re-election bid. seven months later, msnbc's symone sanders-townsend and melissa murray sat down with a group of black women from that same town to discuss biden's debate performance and whether the campaign can be saved. and melissa murray joins us now. she is stokes professor at university school of law. why don't you set the scene for

us more than i did to given us context for this conversation. this is right after the debate, correct? >> correct. so on sunday, the sunday right after the debate, melissa and i traveled to one of the states that will be critical for both candidates, trump and biden, in this 2024 election, pennsylvania. and we went to montgomery county, pennsylvania, to blue bell. and we sat down and had a wide ranging conversation with seven intergenerational women, and they all knew each other. many of them knew melissa, which is how we sourced and found different women in the area. and we talked about a lot. as a part of our conversation, melissa and i thought it was important to make sure we talk about the recent events that happened, the debate, these calls for the president to step down, and what these women, these black women in the suburbs, who will be deciders in this election -- black women all across this country -- what they

think the path forward should be. it was great. >> let's look at the part of the conversation where the women react to the debate. >> does anybody think that joe biden should drop out of the race? >> i hope that both candidates would drop out of the race. >> me, too. >> both. i didn't like either one of them. i didn't think they represented the united states well, and that's, to joy's point, being in a different country, i traveled outside the country a while ago to visit joy, and i get it. people are looking at the united states, like, what are you all doing? what are you all collectively smoking? it's embarrassing. so i want them both to drop out. >> same here. i wish they would both drop out. i'm a bit worried about biden's ability to run a country. i don't know if he'll be able to do it if he is elected for the next four years. and i do think he has other

options within the party who quo could step up and carry out similar things he wants to be carried out. >> trump is only a few years younger than biden. do you worry about his abbott to run the country? >> not just age but mentally. >> cognitively? >> that man is unhinged. no, i don't trust trump at all. >> all right, so, symone, you can take it, melissa, by the way, what up both think in terms of overall what you heard from these women in terms of looking at the options, and the options are biden and kamala versus trump and whoever and that could not be more stark whether or not joe biden is struggling with his age. fair to say? >> yeah, i think it's fair to say. i'm interested in what you gleaned from that part of the conversation, melissa. i will note that other women went on to say -- it was really a range of views, right?

shelly, who also we have clips of shelly from this conversation who said she never thought about biden dropping out. but as the time went on and she saw more of the news, she thought about the fact she doesn't think there's an alternative and brought up on her own democracy was on the line, talked about the supreme court, and said the president would have a number of great people on his team as well, and she thinks folks should stay with biden. i thought the range of thoughts was very interesting. >> one of the things i thought was striking was how practically minded the women were, an existential choice between having a democracy and something like an autocracy. and clark said something in stark terms they all thought donald trump was unfit to be president. they just worried if joe biden

had the stamina, the vigor, could make it through a difficult campaign season, to ultimately prevail. they said not prevailing was not an option, that this was a fundamental choice between maintaining a democracy and wanted whatever would allow the country to get through this. >> some of the women actually said president biden should not be removed as the democratic candidate. let's listen to what they had to say. >> for me, my visceral emotional reaction after the 90 minutes was, wow, we need to find another path forward. the practicality of who would that next person be it getting them on the ballot, raising the money or getting access to the money raised, it feels impactcal to change course. to rally around our guy who was elected through the process and he has the best shot at beating the alternative. >> initially i didn't think

about him dropping out because i was like, what's the other alternative at this late date as far as being strategic. as time has gone on, i'm still with -- i think he should stay in the race because that's the trajectory we're on and then we all -- even though he's old and seemingly surrounds himself with people who are competent and make sure the country is moving forward. i am confident once he wins in november, we will be okay. >> so the obvious option is the vice president kamala harris. here is what the group of women had to say about the potential of her at the top of the ticket. >> i just think strategically at

this point on the democratic side we all know that polling for vice president harris isn't as high as we would like, even if all of us -- i can't speak for everyone in here -- have great feelings towards her and thinks she's a great vice president. i just think at this point it's a sure loss for us if we switch up or do we hedge our bets and hope biden will pull through on the democratic side. i think both of them -- i think, in my opinion, i agree with people who think there should be age limits or term limits on all of our federal offices. and so -- >> including the supreme court? >> yes. >> first of all, symone, what an extraordinarily thoughtful and dialed in group of women you found to talk to. they obviously understand politics well and follow everything here. you worked, of course, for vice president kamala harris. you hear even in some of those comments a little bit of trepidation about her at the top

of the ticket. what was your takeaway? >> my takeaway is that, again, these women i spoke to and the range of women -- alexis who was speaking last in the clip -- she is younger. she's, i would argue, a younger millennial, if you will. she has graduated. she lives and works outside of blue bell now but is originally from that area and she represented the sentiment of younger voters who say, hey, i'm looking at my own experience and these are my thoughts and this is what i think. i think that voters, black women voters especially, they are extremely pragmatic. they are paying attention. none of the women are political professionals. they're not activists for the democratic party. none of them are running different organizations. they are in business. they are teachers. some of them are homemakers. some of the younger women work

in marketing and finance. i think what we heard is representative of what young women are saying across the country. >> and, melissa, i'll tap into your expertise. if you didn't discuss if, i'm curious did any of the women bring up trump's legal issues, the countless counts against him and the things that have already happened in civil court and in criminal court. does that play into this conversation at all? what do you make of the recent decisions, whether it be to delay his sentencing and the partial immunity decision? >> we did ask them about the supreme court and trump's legal troubles. one of the women, sheila, was a veteran, and she noted that those documents at mar-a-lago, while we have the pick turns of

classified documents, that was, to her, a stunning dereliction of duty. for all of these women, the supreme court is top of mind. they mentioned it several times, this was before the immunity decision came out. that is a stark line in the road. it gave donald trump de facto immunity in the january 6 trial. it lays out a scenario where anything a president does would be prospectively immune. that is chilling. >> legal analyst melissa murray, thank you very much. symone sanders-townsend, thank you as well. we'll be watching "the weekend" saturday and sunday mornings beginning at 8:00 a.m. eastern right here on msnbc.

and thank you for bringing us those interviews. coming up, a closer look to delay donald trump's sentencing hearing in his criminal hush money trial and how this could impact his presidential campaign. "morning joe" will be right back. gn "morning joe" will be right back the future is not just going to happen. you have to make it. and if you want a successful business, all it takes is an idea, and now becomes the future where you grew a dream into a reality.

the all new godaddy airo. put your business online in minutes with the power of ai. why do couples choose a sleep number smart bed? i need help with her snoring. put your business online in minutes sleep number does that. thank you. shop our lowest prices of the season with free home delivery when you add a base. sleep number smart beds starting at $999. learn more at sleepnumber.com harlem has everything. but i couldn't find pilates anywhere. so i started my own studio. and with the right help, i can make this place i love even better. earn up to 5% cash back on business essentials with the chase ink business cash card from chase for business.

(♪♪) (♪♪) sandals rhythm and blues caribbean sale is now on. visit sandals.com or call 1-800-sandals. dave's company just scored the visit sandals.com comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. high five! high five... -i'm on a call. it's 5 years of reliable, gig speed internet... five years of advanced security... five years of a great rate that won't change. yep, dave's feeling it. yes. but it's only for a limited time. five years? -five years. introducing the comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. powering 5 years of savings. powering possibilities.

the sentencing in donald trump's hush money criminal

trial conviction will now not take place next week as originally planned. the sentencing hearing will happen now on september the 18th. that's at the earliest. judge juan merchan approved the delay yesterday after trump's lawyers asked for more time to argue the supreme court's recent immunity decision calls for a new trial. former litigator and msnbc legal correspondent lisa reuben. were you surprised by this delay? and, secondly, what do these months now, a couple of them at least, buy judge merchan, buy trump's legal team? >> willie it i wasn't surprised there was a delay of some sort. i thought the judge would allow there to be briefing whether to set aside the verdict after the new york d.a.'s office said they would consent. postponing the sentencing, if it happens at all, the judge's words, not mine, to september 18th. that was the big surprise.

>> and so july 11th originally scheduled and now september 18th and could be later than that. what is the link here as you look at it between the supreme court's decision on presidential immunity and what we're seeing now? what could trump's team argue? could they argue for a new trial? >> they're not even arguing for a new trial. they're arguing to set aside the verdict. the decision doesn't just stand for the president having immunity but even offering official act evidence in any case no matter whether it deals with official acts or purely personal or private conduct. let's rewind back in time to the manhattan d.a.'s trial where even though the gravamen of the case was payments to stormy daniels and the cover-up through business records, there was evidence of things that happened

during donald trump's presidency including tweets he issued in may of 2018 where he admitted he reimbursed michael cohen. there's a financial disclosure trump filed for the year that also admits to that reimbursement and then a slew of other public statements and tweets the president said go to the pressure campaign not to flip. from donald trump insinuating, if you stay in line, we'll take care of you. but, if you turn me in, your life is about to become a living hell and, indeed, that's what happened to michael cohen. the prosecution introduced all of that evidence at trial. the defense now saying none of that should have entered into evidence because it's all reflective of his official acts and, therefore, the verdict should be set aside. i don't think that they'll win

because i don't think any of that evidence was critical to proving the crime but with some of the things they've tried in the past, i would describe as nonfrivolous. >> so rudy giuliani can no long er practice law in new york. he was disbarred in the state yesterday. the order came from a new york state appeals court citing false statements giuliani made about mass voter fraud after joe biden's 2020 victory. the order states that he had no good faith basis to believe the lies that he spread about the election, citing comments giuliani made at his press conference which took place on the day the election was called for biden. giuliani currently faces charges

in georgia, in arizona, and an unindicted in the case against trump. giuliani's law license in washington, d.c. remains under review. and, remember steve bannon is now in prison. your take on this giuliani development. >> my take, mika, is where you were about to go. we continue to see the consequences of participating in the big lie or in efforts to obstruct investigations into the big lie, as in bannon's case, from everybody around donald trump, all of his loyal acolytes will pape the price for their loyalty whether through indictment or other serious consequences like civil liability. rudy giuliani owes two georgia election workers millions of dollars in a defamation case. donald trump will likely escape

criminal accountability for his participation in efforts to overthrow the results of the 2020 election while everyone else around him falls. and that's a lesson not only for all of us but for all of the people who continue to surround him and enable his lies and his attempts at autocracy, mika. >> it's a one-way loyalty oath. msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin, thank you very much. and still ahead, president biden now has his eyes on north carolina where the latino population is growing, but the turnout is shrinking. nbc's morgan radford with her reporting from there and whether the president's messaging is resonating with latino voters. plus, it's time to rip off the band-aid. that's what former democratic congressman tim ryan says, arguing for kamala harris to be the democratic nominee. he'll join us to make that case and tell us why he's lost confidence in biden's ability to

defeat donald trump. "morning joe" will be right back. t back e so many tina feys i could be. so i hired body doubles. 30,000 followers tina in a boutique hotel. or 30,000 steps tina in a mountain cabin. ooh! booking.com booking.yeah

♪♪ ♪♪ beautiful live picture of the white house at 6:50 on this wednesday, july 3rd. just ahead of the fourth of july celebrations across the country.

the biden campaign is ramping up its efforts in north carolina. donald trump won north in 2020, but fewer than 75,000 votes. now democrats and republicans are focusing on north carolina's nearly 300,000 eligible latino voters. joining us now nbc news correspondent our good friend morgan radford. she travelled to north carolina to see whether either party's message is breaking through. morgan, what did you find out? >> reporter: i went back home and we spoke to voters, nonvoters, organizers from both sides in wake county. it's home to the second largest latino population in the state. the best summary came from the leader of the out reach group called -- [ speaking in a global language ] -- which means planting seeds. she told us there's three

choices, joe biden, donald trump or the couch. in wake county, north carolina, the temperature is rising. interest in the election among these latino voters -- >> i don't know who to lean for. >> reporter: -- is anything but hot. >> i don't think people are excited in this moment about this election. >> reporter: nicky leads a voter out reach group called dash [ speaking in a global language ] -- its goal to reach 5,000 voters this election year. a feat they say is harder than it's been before. >> in 2020 i think it was so much clearer to people what we were up against and what the choice was and how the candidates were different. all that felt sharper. >> reporter: north carolina's latino voter turnout has

decreased, lagging in the midterms and 2024 primaries. it's a trend this woman says is due to a misunderstanding of what latino voters want from either candidate. >> if either one of them had a coherent plan that was, like, here's what we're going to do about guns and talk about that, this would be a complete different conversation. >> reporter: another issue here, a series of i.c.e. raids under the trump administration that saw hundreds of people detained across the state. >> they saw the thing happen over and over where people got taken who weren't even the person i.c.e. was looking for. that caused a lot of fear and chaos. >> reporter: an issue that played a role in the state's three most populous counties. it's one one this 19-year-old

woman said she's leaning towards biden. >> the immigration laws have been impactful as to how my family lives. >> you say you're still undecided. are you exciting about voting for either candidate? >> i mean, not necessarily. >> it sounds like you're almost choosing between two options you don't love. >> reporter: a sentiment the state's republican party is hoping to capitalize on. >> what is the number one issue you talk about to recruit voters? >> the economy is the number one issue. >> why? >> we talk about were grocery prices this high when president trump was president, were gas prices this high? are you able to afford a mortgage with the interest rates so high? they say, no, we're having a problem. the rent market is booming, but

the housing market is not. >> reporter: as both candidates try to drum up enthusiasm, voters say there's a long road ahead. >> i don't know who to vote for. no matter what side you go to there's something iffy about it. [ speaking in a global language ] >> what do you think about biden and trump? [ speaking in a global language ] >> you think both candidates are too old and you want to see something new. >> exactly. >> we reached out to the democratic party. they said it's investigating and investing earlier than ever in the state's latino community adding, while trump oversaw a 47% spike in unemployment among latinos, president biden has delivered for the latino communities creating more than 400,000 good paying jobs. they talked about a tv ad

targeted towards latilatinos. they say that spot will air across several battleground states including north carolina just in time for wednesday. >> this group could be decisive in a race that was one point around in 2020. morgan radford, thank you for your reporting. coming up, the biden campaign says it raised nearly $130 million in the last month. senior campaign spokesperson adrian elrod joins us, as the president look toss reassure voters he can beat donald trump in november even after that debate performance last week. "morning joe" is coming right back.

♪♪ why won't scout play with us anymore? he has something called osteoarthritis pain. it's joint pain that hurts him all the time. come on, scout. now, there's librela. the first and only once-monthly injection to control your dog's oa pain. veterinary professionals administering librela who are pregnant, trying to conceive, or breast feeding, should take extreme care to avoid self-injection, which could cause allergic reactions like anaphylaxis. this is the best day of my life!

was he taking any medication that would have interfered -- >> he was not taking any cold

medication. i asked his doctor. that's what he stated. >> after the debate did the president get examined by a doctor or get a neurological scan? >> a neurological scan? look, what i can say is that -- just to take a step back, it was a bad night. we understand it was a bad night. the president has spoken to this. he understands that. and so i cannot speak to anything beyond what i just shared. the president has regular, annual physicals that we release in a thorough report. we'll continue to do that. i don't have anything else beyond that. >> white house press secretary karine jean-pierre pushing back on questions about president biden's health amid his poor debate performance.

welcome back to "morning joe" on wednesday, july 3rd. we have the host of the podcast on brand with donny deutch, eddie junior and susan page joins us. we'll begin this hour with president biden facing growing doubts about his 2024 re-election bid. nbc news senior white house correspondent kelly o'donnell has the details. >> reporter: president biden's political future at the center of the storm, as his only public event focussed on extreme weather and emergency management. for five days the president has not answered reporters' questions. >> mr. president, will you drop out of the race? >> reporter: he has relied on scripted remarks using a teleprompter. >> we invested more than $50 billion. >> reporter: the white house wants to turn the page after a

debate performance crisis that some democrats say raised questions. >> i think it's a legitimate question to say is this an episode or is this a condition. >> reporter: the first public call to exit race from a house democrat. >> we must call on him to give the ultimate sacrifice of saying he'll step aside. >> reporter: another democrat with a warning. >> i just want him to appreciate at this time how much it impacts not just his race, but all the other races coming in november. >> reporter: at the white house briefing -- >> he had a cold and a bad night. i would not see this as an episode. >> reporter: under repeated questioning karine jean-pierre defended the president. >> is anyone in the white house hiding information about the president's health or his ability to do the job day to day? >> absolutely not. >> reporter: "the new york times" reports that in closed door meetings several current and former officials noticed the

president appeared confused or listless or would lose the thread of conversations. nbc news reports that hunter biden joined meetings with the president and senior staff this week in the west wing. reaction from senior staff described as what the hell is what's happening. >> he came back with his dad from camp david. he walked him into the speech prep and was in the room. >> oh, that's a great point, hunter. let's just break this down a little bit, willie. i have a few thoughts after what i just saw. after a moment like this, only president biden can tell us what needs to happen next, or can show us. all this surmising out loud is kind of useless. i know we're in a time crunch. this needs a week or two so everyone can see what they need to see. we can't surmise. yes, there's a lot of criticism

that he's saying it was jet lag. i brought this up earlier. it was flying across 12 time zones when your son was convicted on felony counts that wouldn't bring any others to court, but your son is convicted. that emotional trauma happening while he's abroad. yes, hunter's staying close with his dad right now, showing he's okay, showing there's okay. i don't see any problem with that. compare all of that to the alternative who moved his family in to work in the administration, it just feels like, number one, people need to slow down. this is a very delicate situation and there are fair questions out there, but the noise and the move to move him out when we haven't had a chance to really recoup and see whether there was episodic or not. also, the lack of balance at the alternative where there may be

1,000 reasons why an editorial board would have said that donald trump should step out of the race, and yet that never happens. >> yeah, i mean, without question when you talk about the substance of what we saw last thursday night, donald trump lied from start to finish as we pointed out many times. >> correct. >> it's what he does. most of what he says isn't true. let's be honest. it's also true that people, democrats, people who love joe biden, people were shaken by what they saw. i don't think most people are going to buy that he travelled across 12 time zones, he had been home for 11 days. you're the leader of the free world. you have to be up for it. a reuter's poll shows the race tied. that's the case. i think the struggle that's happening inside the white house

and inside the campaign, they believe that joe biden can beat donald trump. what do you do with that? is confidence eroding for some americans? without question. among donors? without question. they're talking about it in public. if you move joe biden aside and maybe he'll take that step, with a -- what comes next? there's no guarantee whatever candidate comes back would beat donald trump. it's a precarious position for the party and the president. he'll be thinking about it and talking with people around him all weekend through the fourth of july. susan page, through polling from "usa today," the publication you work for, about this is a close margin of error race even after the debate. we'll see if those polls change over the next couple of weeks. there are no easy decisions to

be made here. >> that is certainly true. in our "usa today" poll we had the candidates even in may. now we have in a post debate poll we have trump up 3 points. that's within the march general of error. it's a small shift in movement. what was more significant in our poll, 41% of democrats said they wanted joe biden replaced at the top of the ticket. the point that mika makes about the comparison between biden and trump, i think that sharpens the issue. it's because democrats are so concerned about a second trump term that makes them more worried about who leads their own ticket. if he was running against mitt romney or john mccain, the concern might not be so stark. >> donny, obviously you know this very well, talking to people in your circle, talking to people you see. it's not just a question of donors and elected officials being worried about joe biden. it's voters who are worried.

you can go to the coffee shop, dunkin' donuts, hanging out with parents at a ball field, they're worried about what they saw. if joe biden decides to stay in the race and see it through, how do you overcome that? what is the message that you convince democrats who are worried that he's the one to beat donald trump? >> i want to say i believe in joe biden. i believe joe biden will -- he's always put this country first. he's going to do what he thinks is right for the country. i believe in that. having said that, what wins elections is hope. right now democrats don't have hope. that's what you talk about, democrats heads are down. what wins elections is hope. the question becomes what gives us the biggest hope? can joe biden restore that? if not, the other question is fear, fear of the unknown. fear loses. in order to assess where we are -- everybody is like, this

unknown, it's chaos. maybe there's excitement in that, newness in that, freshness in that. maybe the narrative instead of is joe biden okay becomes this exciting new energy and new -- that dominates the narrative instead of is joe okay. i believe joe biden will do what's right for this country. i'm such a joe biden fan. i also believe hope has to come back to the democratic party. we have to win. we're going to win. i believe that. i'm bullish. i think we've got to be bullish. in order to be bullish, we can't be afraid of the unknown. we have to do whatever gives us hope again. hope is going to win. we have to be honest. >> eddie glod, we haven't seen you since the morning after the debate. you've had some time to really think about it and look at it again. hard to watch. by the way, i think that's what

joe biden did. it's why it's taken a few days to process it. not too happy with himself and if he can, he will turn this around. i think he can. what are your thoughts today? >> well, mika, my thoughts are range. i'm still trying to figure it out, trying to process. it's very clear to me that president biden has to be as transparent as possible. you see them coming up with excuse after excuse after excuse. he has to come out and say, yes, i'm old. i have good days and bad days, but i'm up to not only running for the presidency, but being president for the next four years. how do i prove that? he has to be out there. not only does he have to be transparent, he has to say when you elect me, you're going to elect my team. i have chart around me who are going to help us govern. look at president trump.

look at him. he's not morally decent. look at his team. look at project 2025. i think he needs to be transparent and needs to think that there is not just simply president biden. let me be clear. president biden beat trump. we can say that. but the american people beat trump. the american people beat trump because we're concerned about democracy. whether president biden is at the top of the ticket, whether vice president kamala harris is at the top of the ticket, the american people have to defeat donald trump and save american democracy. that's a way to pick up on donny's point. we can give hope to this election, to this process it seems to me. that's where i am right now, mika. i'm still processing it. i know that president biden needs to be transparent. they can't cover it up. >> amid the calls from some for president biden to bow out of the race former democratic congressman of tim ryan says

vice president kamala harris should replace biden at the top of the ticket. congressman ryan, a long-time supporter of joe biden, argues harris, quote, deserves a chance to go to the american people and show us her metal. former congressman ryan joins us now. great to have you back on the show. in the piece you make clear you're a huge fan of joe biden. you got out of the race in 2020. you were the first candidate to support joe biden. you say he's been great for the country, great for working class people in towns like the one you come from in ohio. why do you think at this point the president needs to get out of the race? >> well, i watched debate, willie. i mean, there's -- we all saw it happening in real time and it was so concerning to me that he's not up to the job. i mean, not just the campaign. you watch donald trump shape

shift covid, the economy, climate. he was able to string a story along that is completely untrue as you just noted, but we have to have a candidate that can push back and call bs on that stuff. there's too much at stake here. you could poke holes in his arguments left and right, but the president was not able to do it. again, i love him, but somebody like kamala harris, i think would be in that position. she would kick trump's rear end in a debate. we have the choice issue out there. there's so much at stake in this election for women especially, but we saw the chevron decision. we saw the immunity decision. i mean, they literally -- the supreme court literally flipped the constitution on its head. now we lose senate, if we lose the presidency, every federal court is going to have a clarence thomas there.

every u.s. attorney across the united states is going to have a radical federalist prosecuting people. that's a scary situation. we can't hesitate here. we have to be decisive. we have to look at the field, see what's going on and make a decision and move on. i just think kamala would have appeal in the midwest. she could prosecute the pro-choice issue. she would kick trump's rear end. most importantly she's a generational change which is what the american people want. >> the argument we've been hearing from the white house, the biden campaign, let's not judge joe biden on one bad night. look at president biden's record. look at what he's done. look at the fact he's already defeated donald trump. how do you factor all that into your calls for him to step aside? >> we all are going to brag in this election that this has been the most successful term of a president in modern history --

the chips act, the inflation reduction act, the infrastructure bill, modest gun reform. it's been a success in so many ways. we want to brag about it. we need a candidate that can brag about that. again, i think it's kamala harris personally who could come to the industrial midwest and brag to working class voters about that stuff. i don't think that it's helpful to try to convince the american people that we didn't see what we saw. i mean, that further separates -- that's why the 41% are calling for him not to run. that's why people are running around with their heads in their hands. you're asking them to not believe what they saw, that their eyes are lying to them. i don't think that's helpful. >> okay. who's doing that? >> we have to be decisive. >> tim, i don't understand who's doing that. everyone says it was a terrible

night. it was a horrible, terrible, disappointing night. no one is saying -- no one's being trumpy here. let's put that aside, although that's really hard because the alternative in this race, donald trump, we could talk for three hours about the destruction to this company. >> please don't make us. >> i know. the alternative is frightening and the immunity ruling and everything that comes -- the criminality of it all is unbelievable. if joe biden can recover from this, and i'm just suggesting that everybody wait a week and see what happens. with the record you were just talking about, the unmatched bipartisan legislative action, the unmatched ability to galvanize on the world stage two hot wars, you know the list. you know he took that ten-hour train ride to kyiv. these are things that most

presidents don't have to do, wouldn't do, maybe wouldn't take the time to do. i would say democrats as well in the past. they wouldn't make the effort joe biden has made for this country. i think he always puts this country first. what i don't get about your argument and i'm curious about it because i respect you greatly, is that you still have kamala harris. she's his vice president. she's on the frontlines of the abortion debate. by the way, we can't even begin to talk about the danger to women that donald trump has put on this country, women whose lives are in danger now because of what he has done. i just wonder, though, what argument are you making to put kamala harris out there, when she already is. >> well, it's -- nobody has the microphone of the president of the united states, the bully pulpit, nobody, not even the vice president. my concern is not so much the

governing. i voted for all that and supported a lot of what he did because it's helping places like ohio and the industrial midwest. my concern and my argument is that i don't think joe biden can make the argument in the next four months. they're going to be about whether or not we can push back on trump's lies and provide a big, new, fresh vision for a new america that we want to create or are we going to allow trump to run rough shot over the democratic argument which is what happened the other day in the debate. that's my concern. when he was talking about the economy being good under him, when he talked about how well he handled covid and there was zero push back -- as someone who's been in the business 25 years, that's frightening. you pop him. you fight holes in him and elevate the conversation about what we've done. my concern in my heart is that the president is not going to be

able to do that over the next four months. that scares the crap out of me. >> we shall see. former democratic congressman tim ryan, thank you for coming on the show. >> thank you, mika. love you. >> love you too. up next, we'll hear directly from the biden/harris campaign. senior spokesperson adrienne elrod joins us after a quick break.

(♪♪) whether you're moving across town or across the country, you can count on pods to deliver when we say we will. which is why we were voted america's #1 container moving company. book your move today at pods.com when was the last time you checked in on your heart?

with kardiamobile, the personal ekg device, you can check it from home using your smartphone. i use kardiamobile every day. sometimes twice a day. every morning i check, make sure i'm in good shape. and it makes me feel pretty good about my heart condition. it's a complete game-changer. i mean, you might as well be in a doctor's office. there's a way i can communicate with patients now in a way i never could before. they have their own ekg in their pocket. with kardiamobile, you can take a medical-grade ekg in just 30 seconds from anywhere. kardiamobile is proven to detect atrial fibrillation, one of the leading causes of stroke. and it's the only personal ekg that's fda-cleared to detect normal heart rhythm, bradycardia and tachycardia. having kardiamobile, it's a peace of mind for me. because you can't see your cardiologist every day, but you can see your kardiamobile every day. checking your heart anytime, anywhere has never been easier. don't wait. get kardiamobile today for just $79 at kardia.com or amazon. when we're young, we're told anything is possible...

...but only a few of us go out and prove it. witness the greatness of anna hall on a connection worthy of gold: xfinity mobile. only xfinity gives you the most powerful mobile wifi network, with speeds up to a gig in millions of locations. and right now, xfinity internet customers can buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. get the fastest connection to paris with xfinity.

i haven't heard a thing from the white house, not a thing, since the debate. i represent, you know, a member of the congressional delegation to a critical state for joe biden, virginia. most of my colleagues, like myself, are processing what happened. we don't want to make decisions in haste. joe biden is a consequential president. he's been a friend of mine. i worked for him for ten years, known him for 45. i'm not going to jetson joe biden based on a 90-minute debate. i do want to be reassured joe biden is capable of doing the job, wants to do the job and he can reassure the public to both

those things. >> that was democratic congressman gerry connolly of virginia expressing some frustration over the lack of communication from the white house. joining us now senior spokesperson for the biden/hair campaign, adrienne elrod. we've been talking about it this morning. a lot of people are concerned about president biden and whether he should stay in the debate. we heard from tim ryan. tim ryan worries joe biden cannot deliver. he says americans needed to see a candidate punching back at trump's lies, repeated lies, over the course of 90 minutes and over the course of 90 minutes he repeatedly struck out, even on basic issues like abortion and some of the basic arguments of our time. to that you say what? to the calls from people like

tim ryan to shake-up the race, what do you say? >> well, a couple things, mika. first of all, good morning. secondly, look, president biden has made it clear -- how many times did he have to say it he didn't have his best night. he said last night in virginia he was tired. you noted on the show, mika, he travelled twice around the world. you know, he was exhausted. he did not have his best night. however, i don't know if congressman ryan saw this but president biden gave a rousing speech in north carolina the next morning where he did make that contrast and talk about the fundamentals of this race, what is at stake for the american people. he talked about the 50 lies donald trump told. he talked about the fact that donald trump lied about women's reproductive rights, he lied about january 6th, he lied about the economy. he lied about a number of things. he also said, mika, that donald

trump has said in his own words that he would lead as a dictator on day one in this country. that is incredibly dangerous. we saw the supreme court's toxic ruling they made this week on presidential immunity. you heard president biden being presidential, speaking from the white house about what's at stake and how dangerous the supreme court ruling is. we have a supreme court that is constantly ruling 6-3, largely against the american people. why? because donald trump put three supreme court justices on the court. the next president of the united states could put potentially two more supreme court justices on. you'll see president biden out there making that contrast. he's meeting with governors today. he's traveling to wisconsin and pennsylvania this weekend. he's doing a number of things. he's being the president of the united states. he's doing his job. he'll continue to reassure the american people he's up to the job. he's speaking to george stephanopoulos on friday.

he's doing what he needs to do to reassure the american people. he's also talking to voters directly. voters in this election will ultimately decide. we've seen from internal poling there's not been much of a shift. we've seen eight public polls that this race remains within the margin of error and the debate didn't shift really at all in these polls. it's important for everyone to take a step back, take a beat. realize president biden is the only person in this country who defeated donald trump and he'll defeat him again in november. >> so there are those who are -- you heard gerry connolly saying they haven't heard from president biden and they want to be reassured. your words sound reassuring. with due respect, i think people want to hear those words from president biden himself, especially top democrats who are sort of waiting to see what happened and to hear from him personally. >> yeah, look, he's making

calls. it's been reported he's making calls to congressional members. i can confirm that. he spoke to leader jeffries yesterday. you'll see him out there speaking to members, reassuring members. he's also the president of the united states. he cannot call all 535 members of congress. he's talking to leadership. he's talking to senate members. he's talking to governors today. again, you're going to see him on the campaign trail. you'll see him at the white house. you'll see him sit down with george stephanopoulos. you'll see him in key battleground states. he's traveling. he's doing what he needs to do to reassure americans and also remind folks what is at stake in this election, how dangerous donald trump is to this country. mika, where is donald trump? haven't seen him much on the campaign trail the last few days. secondly, i don't want to say i'm tired of talking about this, but we have to get back to the fact that donald trump is a threat to the american people.

we're dealing with a court system that is increasingly siding against the american people, increasingly making it far more dangerous if donald trump steps back in that white house. there's one person standing in the way of donald trump getting back in that white house and that person is president joe biden. >> good morning. good to see you. obviously the president hears these calls to step aside and from others around the political spectrum for him to get out. is president biden considering leaving the race? >> no. you heard this in his own words. he's not considering it. he's the president of the united states. he's the person the american people, democrats who voted in all 50 states in the primary, that is who they want to be their nominee. he's the nominee for president of the united states for the democratic party. you know, we can't go against the will of the voters. he doesn't want to go against

the will of the voters. voters want to see him stay in that race. he's the person they chose. he's the person they know can best defeat donald trump. no, he's staying in this race. he's going to continue to make that case, willie, to the american people about what is at stake. again, it's just getting a little silly here that we're talking about one night in this presidential campaign. yes, he had a bad night. why are we letting that continue to make the news about what's at stake in this race when really there's so much on the line for women. there's so much on the line for families across this country. our economic freedoms are at risk if donald trump becomes president again. there would be a national abortion ban if donald trump becomes president again. there's a lot at stake here. we got to get the focus back to talking about the issues that will define this race. what's at stake for the american people? i think president biden is going to make these stakes very clear

when he talks to george stephanopoulos. the american people have a chance to see him on television this weekend making that case on the campaign trail and i think we have to just focus on what's really at stake here and focus on the issues that will drive voters and drive their decisions in this election. >> for a moment let's forget the political class, the donor class. how do you reassure -- how does the president reassure a regular independent voters who watched thursday night and say i don't know if he's up for the job for another four years? they might be saying i like him. i voted for him. i know he beat donald trump. that didn't look to me like a man who is up to the job. how do you reassure that voter who wants to vote for joe biden but has some doubts? >> he's traveling to pennsylvania and wisconsin this weekend. he's going to make the case to

voters. north carolina was a powerful moment after the debate. it would have been a powerful moment regardless. you saw him energetic, drawing that contrast, laying out the lies that donald trump told on the debate stage. you'll see him do more of that. he's fantastic at drawing a contrast, especially when he's out there talking directly to voters. you'll see more of that. willie, i want to underscore the fact -- we put out a polling memo a couple days ago. our results that came back from the polls from the debate show that not only was there no movement among voters, but also a lot of independent voters had a lot of concerns about what they saw from donald trump, the lies he told on that stage. we have to keep in misdemeanor that, sure, president biden made it clear he didn't have a good night, but donald trump didn't have a good night either. the words that came out of donald trump's mouth were

concerning, the way he would rule, the way he wants to be a dictator on day one. there would be a blood bath, in donald trump's words, if he does not win this election. we have to get back to the issues that will drive voters' decisions. that's what president biden wants to do and that's what you'll see him do over the next few days and weeks and months ahead. >> we'll be watching. senior adviser and spokesperson for the biden/harris 2024 re-election campaign, adrienne elrod. we appreciate it. >> thanks, willie. >> susan page you heard there from adrienne elrod and we heard from congressman tim ryan calling for president biden to step aside. what's your sense of where things are right now and where they might be headed? >> it's not fair to say that these critics, these skeptics, including tim ryan, are focussed

on 90 minutes in june. they're really focussed on what the debate performance might indicate about president biden's mental acuity for another four-year term. that's the question that the president needs to answer. i think doing an interview with mainstream reporter like george stephanopoulos is a good idea. i think having a news conference, a full-fledged news conference, he's doing a news conference after the nato meeting next week will help. the only way is to get out there and show he can handle unscripted moments in a compelling way. that's what voters need to see. >> donny, what did you make of what you saw from adrienne elrod and tim ryan? "the new york times" piece about joe biden's state of mind is coming from people inside the

room, not just from the debate, but over the last couple weeks and months. what do you make of it all? >> what separates our side from the other side is we tell the truth. mika brought up a great point. let's not get hysterical. we have to be truthful. the question is who can win pennsylvania, michigan and wisconsin? that's what this is about. let's break that down. i think the truth will come out. i think we just have to be honest with ourselves. i think joe biden will be honest. i believe in the end he will. i think he's a great man. the truth is he's not the answer. >> eddie, some of the subtext of what we're hearing if president biden steps aside is concern about vice president kamala harris, fear of the unknown, fear that donald trump may defeat her and that they'll made a mistake and joe biden may have

won. what are you hearing in some of these conversations? >> well, you know, we have to be honest with ourselves, willie. you remember during the republican primary nikki haley, as she was speaking around the country, saying this was going to be a kamala harris presidency as she was pointing to biden's age. what we heard then and what i believe now is that was a racial dog whistle. we know at the heart of maga trumpism is a racial grievance. some of the doubt, some of the hesitation around kamala harris has everything to do with the way race is organizing, shadowing our politics. we need to be honest about that. that's not me making judgment about kamala harris. i'm talking about the state of our politics in this moment. i think susan is right. reggie jackson said i would rather have roosevelt in a wheelchair than reagan on a horse. i would rather have biden on a

bad day than donald trump on his best days. i'm clear about that. the biden campaign needs to be honest about the current state of our politics. >> eddie glod, donny deutch, susan page, thank you all. have a happy fourth of july holiday. thanks for being on this morning. coming up, our next guest worked in beijing for a decade as a "new york times" correspondent and bureau chief. wasn't until he started research for a book that he uncovered the full story of his father's role in communist china. that's next on "morning joe." we'll be right back. seniors, pets, and homes. go to care.com now to find the care you need this summer. i have moderate to severe crohn's disease. now, there's skyrizi.

♪ things are looking up ♪ ♪ i've got symptom relief ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me ♪ (♪♪) ♪ control is everything to me ♪ feel significant symptom relief at 4 weeks with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements. skyrizi is the first il-23 inhibitor that can deliver remission and visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining. and skyrizi is proven to help deliver long-lasting remission at one year. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. liver problems may occur in crohn's disease. now's the time to ask your gastroenterologist how you can take control of your crohn's with skyrizi. (♪♪) ♪ control is everything to me ♪ learn how abbvie could help you save.

with so many choices on booking.com there are so many tina feys i could be. so i hired body doubles. mountain climbing tina at a cabin. or tree climbing tina at a beach resort. nice! booking.com booking.yeah. (♪♪) (♪♪) beaches rhythm and blues caribbean sale is now on. visit beaches.com or call 1-800-beaches.

welcome back. china is making aggressive foreign policy moves just miles from america's shore. according to "the wall street journal" china has recently expanded its spy bases in cuba, facilities that may be used to eaves drop on u.s. government personnel. the reason, hawkish moves by president xi and the chinese communist party is discussed in the book by edward wong entitled

"at the edge of empire, a family's reckoning with china." edward joins us now. the book explores his own family's history, including harrowing tales of edward's father's time fighting in the chinese army. a lot to talk to you about. i'll ask you about the hawkish moves in just a moment. first, can you tell me what you discovered, what you already knew, what you wrote about in terms of your family connection with communist china and your father's story? >> thanks, mika. great to be here. well, when i was growing up in the suburbs of washington, d.c., my father went to work every day at a chinese restaurant. i rarely heard anything about his past from him. like many immigrant fathers he came here with a sense of trying to build for the future and rarely talked about the past. in my 20s when i was in grad

school, i was learning a little more about my family past because i got very interested in china at the time and had gone there to study. once i completed my tour in china as the beijing bureau chief for the times, i came back and interviewed my parents in depth about their years growing up in china and what the country meant to them and did to them. i learned that my father had gone to the far northwestern regions of china to place that we know now as -- he served in the army under there and had been part of the military occupation of that region from the very beginning. >> what were his feelings about his service and about his -- give me a sense of just how he felt about his past, especially given your future. >> sure. he felt that at the time that he was doing good for the country

and that he was answering a call from mao to build up china. mao had started this project to track industrialized china to make it a country that would be on par with both the u.s. and with great britain and my father felt that he could help build up china from the corrupt rule of the nationalist government that preceded the communists. he felt he was doing good. at the time china was engaged in a war with both south korea and america. mao had pushed this rhetoric of anti-american imperialism. my father was intent on fighting the americans on the korean peninsula. when he first joined the military, which he did right after marching in a parade in 1950 in front of mao, he was put into the air force which was a new and elite arm of the military at the time.

he wanted to train in manchuria. a lot of the nationalism and anti-american sentiment we see in china had roots in that era. >> you write about your father's experience serving in mao's army. let me read from it. he's 91 now and tells me things will never fade from his mind. a night when he slept in an alpine meadow under the stars, a day when he watched fellow soldiers with rifles try to hunt deer on a snowy desert plain. years ago, as we sat together after dinner, he told me he still remembered the words to the "east is red," the anthem that most chinese citizens

learned by heart in the 1960s. father sang the words in mandarin with no hesitation, even though it had been decades since he had last done this. after he finished, he sat on the couch and gave me a faint smile. at that moment he was again the young man in a tan uniform with a red star on his cap riding a horse through the high valleys of the northwest, there at the edge of empire. willie? >> edward, that's beautifully written. good morning to you. your father is 91 years old as mika just said and as you write in the book, he left mao's china in 1962. famine was spreading. having lived in china and outside of china, what does he see in modern china in president

xi, does he see echos of mao there? >> this is a complex story about people that choose to leave china and come to america. he left when the country was in the throws of mao's policy. my father looked at the internal workings of the army, the way he saw the country and mao's powers. one of the big problems was that mao held on to power too long and the party had a structural issue with power and it feared outsiders. it was always looking when my father looks at xi jinping's rule now, his conclusion is that xi is holding on to power too long. the third term breaks against

the norms of post mao china, and his conclusion is power corrupts its force if held on for too long and he sees that with xi, and he was hoping xi my conform the communist party and get rid of the corruption taking place in china. >> "the edge of china" on sale now. thank you for sharing the book with us this morning. we appreciate it. thank you. still ahead, our conversation with lilly gladstone on her new film. we're back in a moment. n a momet delivery when you add a base. sleep number smart beds starting at $999. learn more at sleepnumber.com

♪ i am, i cried ♪ [ laughing ] ♪ i am, said i ♪ ♪ and i am lost and i can't ♪

punch buggy red. ♪ even say why ♪ ♪ i am, i said ♪ ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ welcome back. a look at a couple stories making headlines across the country. the indianapolis star features representative spartz, a gun was found in her bag while going

through the security. a spokesperson for her said the congresswoman did not realize the gun was in her suitcase. the grand rapids press in michigan is covering the rise of covid cases across the country. the number of reported cases has gone up according to the cdc in 48 states with two new variants. the uptick is likely due in part to people congregating indoors due to the heat across the country. and "the washington post" says joe biden should step aside now, and we will talk about that and why one says it's best for

the country.

it sounds like you are not entirely convinced that he has convinced people that he can do it. you're leaving the door open. >> well, i am. it is open. let's be candid. what we saw can't be unseen. that was an unsteady performance and raised questions about his physical condition. that, the campaign itself has acknowledged, and it's important

for us. we have an obligation as a party who is committed to serving the future of our democracy. i have a lot of confidence that president biden, when he makes his final decision, will do it on the basis as he's always done of what is best for this country, how can he best serve. big decisions for the president. >> that was democratic senator of vermont, peter welch, criticizing the biden campaign and saying it should acknowledge concerns about the president's debate performance and not dismiss them, this as he is publicly calling for president biden to get out of the race. we are getting an explanation from biden about his debate performance. also ahead, why judge juan

merchan delayed trump's sentencing in the wake of the supreme court's immunity ruling. we will have all that straight ahead. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it's wednesday, july 3rd. along with willie and me, we have the cofounder and ceo of axious, jim, and the co-host of "way too early," and eli stokeles with us this morning. willie, a lot of calls for the president to make calls, and sources are telling me he will make them simmer, and here we go. >> all this talk around the president, the pressure ratcheting up on him to make a decision, and president biden

made his latest and most candidate remarks last night about his matchup with donald trump during a campaign fundraiser in virginia. the president apologized for his lackluster debate performance blaming it on his extensive travel, and he joked he almost fell asleep onstage, adding, quote, this is not an excuse but an explanation. the president travelled to france in early june and then went to los angeles, and returned to washington on june 16th, 11 days before the debate. "the new york times" is looking at president biden at the weeks and months before his debate performance. his team cut his planned preparation by two days so he could rest at his house, and others noticed he increasely

appeared confused. like many people his age, mr. biden, 81, long experienced instances where he mixed up a few facts, even though he can be sharp and engaged most of the time. in interviews people in the room with him recently said the laps seem to be growing more frequent and worry some. the lapses seemed more likely in a large crowd or tired after a particularly bruising schedule. eli, you are part of a reporting team with politico, and so fill us in a little more in what you are hearing. >> thanks, willie. we talked to more than two dozen people close to the administration and close to the senior staff, and it's understandable after a debate performance after that that

there would be frustration and finger pointing and a lot has been directed at the five or six very senior aides, people who have been with the president a long time, and people throughout the party are blaming them for being in the predicament, for try their best to manage the age situation and mitigate coverage and attacks bite media, and more than anything to come up with the rational that he has to run for a second term. one person told us that was a conversation that never expanded beyond the senior group, all of whom would benefit by the president getting another four years in the oval office and this senior team has been resistant to bringing in other opinions to changing course, and there's lot of decisions, not just about the debate and how the president was prepped, but how the president has not been

able to lift his number. they have been running the campaign from delaware and some from the white house unofficially, and the numbers have not moved and president biden made his numbers worse, and he has the same people figuring out how they are going to deploy the president and the same principle who, you know, despite their up-close knowledge and seeing the president every day and realizing his limitations, they came up with the rational to run anyway, and he has to be the candidate, and now the view across the party, at least among a lot of the people we talked to that that seems to be a self-serving and delusional case for another four years. >> eli, the argument we heard last night from president biden that he had been traveling in europe, that's true, but as i pointed out, he had been home for 11 days and resting at camp david for a week by the time the

debate took place, which reinforces the point, does it not, that he needed 11 days of rest and still argued that way. >> they keep adjusting the argument, which is a tell in and of itself. first it was a bad night, and now i was traveling 11 days before the debate, and those are grueling trips, that's a lot to do right before the debate and some people were nervous about that ahead of time, but the discrepancies here, the sort of changing picture, none of this is reassuring. democrats are really concerns at this point about the sustainability of biden's candidacy. this is an effort meant to keep the trains on track here at at difficult moment.

it's also a huge shift for the white house that for the last 3 1/2 years, up to this point, suggested nothing was wrong, and now that suggestion was dismissed out of hand, and reporters were attacked for writing it and suggesting that the things in plain sight about the president being slow to, say, get in his motorcade, and not take the big steps down of air force one, and all those things, there was so much frustration and defensiveness and dismissiveness about those stories from the white house and now suddenly they are acknowledging the obvious, which is, yes, the president has lost a step, he's not quite how he was even four years ago. >> he's 81. meanwhile, the white house is working to tamp down concerns within the party. president biden is scheduled to

speak with democratic governors tonight. three sources say the details are still being hashed out, but it comes after governors held a phone call on monday to discuss the party's path forward. separately nbc news learned biden's chief of staff will hold an all-staff call this afternoon where he's expected to tell staff members to weather the storm and keep your heads down. the president spoke with house democratic leader, hakeem jeffries, by phone yesterday and it's the first recorded conversation between biden and a member of the leadership since the debate. that comes after a congressman from texas is the first to publicly call on president biden to drop out of the race. here's what he told nbc's hallie jackson about the president's debate performance and what he's hearing from voters in his district. >> i would say the input from my constituents has been 10-1 in

favor of replacing president biden on the ticket. you would think after the kind of performance we saw there, he would be out engaging not with a teleprompter but with one reporter after another to answer the hard questions that are out there. i think that's more important to me than a cognitive test or anything else is to demonstrate that last thursday was an aberration and he's ready to actively engage and answer all the hard questions again and again. that's the kind of engagement we need to have if he chooses to stay in the race. i hope that he will put country first. i know trump would never do that, and that he would put country first and decide to step aside and give us an open democratic with a small "d" convention. >> jim, your piece with mike allen for axios this morning is entitled "democrats raise at biden rises."

explain what you are hearing. >> yeah, we have talked to literally dozens of house members, most of whom will not go on record yet. the ones who will go on record already have. they are furious. they are not buying it. they are madder about the response than the debate itself. they can't believe he's blaming staff about it and this idea that a 11-day jet lag would cause you to have a poor debate performance strikes them -- it's a crazy explanation for it. if you are a member of congress, to be honest, all you care about is your voters first and your donors second. yeah, you like the president if he helps you, but if he doesn't you will turn on him because you care about self preservation, and they are talking to donors and donors are furious, and voters are telling him we want him to step aside. yesterday we talked to people on

multiple members, and nobody said that he should stay in. they want hakeem jeffers or chuck schumer. they believe, and i think they are right, that the biden family and the biden staff are trying to keep anybody who might make that case to biden away from biden. he started to make calls yesterday, you are correct, but it took him a while. there's a lot of people in senior positions that love the man, love the president and have been with him from the beginning who want to have this gut check with him about whether or not he could not only lose the presidency but cost them the house and senate. you toss in the supreme court ruling and you have democrats saying this could be an existential threat to our

country. >> and kamala harris is defending president biden, and harris staunchedly stood by the president. >> speaking about stakes, you just came out of a fundraiser. we know many in your party expressed concerns about president biden's health, and this morning congressman dogit said he's calling on biden to bow out of the race saying there's too much at risk to staking a trump victory. >> look, joe biden is the nominee and we beat trump and we will do it again. >> are you ready to lead the country if necessary? >> i am proud to be joe biden's running mate. thank you. >> harris also acknowledged president biden's poor performance, saying it cannot be decided by one day in june

because the stakes are so high. clyburn who helped play a key role spoke with msnbc's andrea mitchell yesterday, and andrea asked him about a potential kamala harris candidacy. take a listen. >> congressman, how would you feel about if he steps down, if he decides that or the party pressures him into that, and how would you feel about harris? >> i would support her to step aside, and i want to support her going forward at some point in the near future, and i want this ticket to be biden-harris, and we will see what happens after the election.

no, this party should not do anything to work around mrs. harris. we should do everything to bolster her. >> your comments on both of the stories that i just put out there? i am curious what former presidents are saying from the clintons to the obamas to the bush family, since democracy is at stake. it will be interesting in the week to come how this plays out, but as you see, congressman clyburn is standing firmly behind joe biden and kamala harris. >> congressman clyburn has proven to be one of the president, and i would argue, the vice president's staunchest allies in politics, frankly. mika, i was thinking about this this morning. i thought back to 2019-2020, when joe biden had, you know,

swept south carolina and swept the super tuesday states and there were all these calls for other candidates in the race to step down, and then candidate biden, and i staunchly remember him being asked should klobuchar or sanders step out, and he said it's a personal decision that candidates would have to make and he himself had to make that decision in the past and he would never call on somebody else to drop out, and i had to juxtapose that with the onslaught of elected people and folks that have known the president for such a long time privately and now some publicly calling for him to step down. to me it was astounding. i will say, mika, again and again, i think people need to talk to voters. the elected officials and the donors, i think the donors and the elected officials forget it's the voters that put the people in the positions.

the donors help to fuel campaigns and frankly given our party system, it doesn't work without them because of the money need ed, hello, citizens united, and to mayors to, state representatives, much, much focus, i think, needs to be put on the voters and what they are saying. it's them who will decide -- who i think will be the biggest influence on what unfolds. lastly, mika, i think a lot of folks as i have been reading the coverage and talking to folks, i don't think people are aware of the rules of the democratic national convention, and there are rules that governs in a nominee accepted the nomination or then decided to step down, and there's not many rules, nonexistent, frankly, rules

about that, and there's a primary process that already played out. coming up, we will dig into a story we touched on yesterday about michigan governor, gretchen whitmore. that's straight ahead on "morning joe." ead on "morning joe." if you have generalized myasthenia gravis, picture what life could look like with... vyvgart hytrulo, a subcutaneous injection that takes about 30 to 90 seconds. for one thing, could it mean more time for you? vyvgart hytrulo can improve daily abilities

and reduce muscle weakness with a treatment plan that's personalized to you. do not use vyvgart hytrulo if you have a serious allergy to any of its ingredients. it can cause serious allergic reactions like trouble breathing and decrease in blood pressure leading to fainting and allergic reactions such as rashes, swelling under the skin, shortness of breath, and hives. the most common side effects are respiratory and urinary tract infections, headache, and injection site reactions. it may increase the risk of infusion-related reactions and infection. tell your doctor if you have a history of infections or symptoms of an infection. talk to your neurologist about vyvgart hytrulo for gmg and picture your life in motion. reading through your piece

about the inner circle that has been around joe biden, as you write many of them have been at his side for four years, and put them together with the family as well, the advisers and family are the ones that will make the decision ultimately. is there any sense that has built over, let's say the last two or three days where people are saying out loud it's time for biden to step aside, do you get any sense that message has cracked through, has broken through that inner circle? >> well, they are definitely hearing it. they are aware with it. the interview with george stephanopoulos, that's a sign they have heard some of the calls from lawmakers and they know they have to fix it, and they are trying to fix it and reassure people. the outreach has been slow. there were a couple days before biden started to get on the phone and talk to the people who are important here. he will meet with the governors today. he started picking up the phone and talking to members of

congress, as far as i understand. what the conversations are like, hard to say. i think that if the campaign has pointed at this point to polling and saying the debate has not changed the race. we are only starting to get a sense of the public's reaction to what happened on thursday night, what they saw from the president. i think simone is right, the voters are going to have lot to do with the public perception and public support. if the president's support craters and if we are looking at a place like new hampshire and minnesota are suddenly in play for donald trump, that's not a race the president can win. his inner circle, as much as they have tried to circle the wagons around the president in the last week or so they are realisist and seeing the polls, and if they continue to mount, if we hear more calls from more senior members of congress for him to consider stepping aside,

i think that will weigh heavily on the president and certainly on the senior staff as well. >> by the way, that interview with george stephanopoulos takes place on friday, and i said it was today. it only feels like friday on fourth of july eve. and what is your sense of how it might play out over the next several days? a long fourth of july weekend coming up, and if he does, in fact, decide to take the extraordinary step of dropping out of the race, how confident are democrats in what comes next. it's a great unknown, whether it's kamala harris or it goes to the ken -- convention. >> it will be the voters. what you need to watch for are the polls. if you see states like minnesota, new mexico, new hampshire and virginia move

towards trump, that will be df calm one. you will see intense pressure on members of congress to go as a delegation or individually and talk to the president about stepping down. if that will happen it will happen over the next week to ten days. let's play it out. let's say that does happen. there's a lot of democrats that say it will be messy. everything in politics is messy, but if you have to pick a new ticket there are advantages to that. you would come out of the convention with younger candidates, and you would get a hell of attention because it would be unlike any scene in recent politics, and there's lots of money, and if people want to back it, you would get it to them. getting lost in this, trump, he's seeing some benefit in the

polls but it's not people are racing to embrace donald trump. they are racing to say we have deep, deep concerns about president biden and his fitness for office given the debate, and the voters saw what we saw, and you can't unsee what you saw and they know that has an affect on voters because they are human and have grandparents and parents and they see what happens when people get older and tired. the jet lag, 11 days, you wouldn't say that about your parents or grandparents where it would take them 11 days to recover. yes, it would be messy and unprecedented, but it's not like it's impossible. >> cofounder and ceo of axious, jim vandehei, and eli stokele. thank you for your reporting this morning. and then clinching the

presidency for biden in 2020. simone, you spoke with a group of black women voters in the state, and we will hear what they had to say about the 2024 race.

the all new godaddy airo helps you get your business online in minutes with the power of ai... ...with a perfect name, a great logo, and a beautiful website. just start with a domain, a few clicks,

and you're in business. make now the future at godaddy.com/airo (tony hawk) skating for over 45 years has taken a toll on my body. i take qunol turmeric abecause it helpsiness. with healthy joints and inflammation support. why qunol? it has superior absorption compared to regular turmeric. qunol. the brand i trust.

sacred cause? i mean it. this is not rhetorical, abg dem kwrbg or hypothetical whether democracy is still america's sacred cause is the most urgent question of our time, and it's what the 2024 election is all about. >> that was president biden at the start of the year outside the valley forge in blue bell, pennsylvania, in an event that was largely considered the launch of his re-election bid. seven months later, msnbc's

symone sanders sat down with black women from that same town to discuss biden's debate performance and whether the campaign can be saved. and melissa joins us now, and symone, set the scene for us more than i did to give us context of the conversation. this is after the debate, correct? >> yes, mika. thank you so much. the sunday after the debate melissa and i travelled to one of the states that would be critical for both candidates, trump and biden in the 2024 election, pennsylvania. we went to montgomery county, pennsylvania, to blue bell, and we had a wide-ranging conversation with seven women, and they all knew each other, and they all new melissa, which

is how we found the different women in the area. as part of the conversation, melissa and i thought it was important to make sure that we talk about the recent events that happened, the debate, these calls for the president to step down and what these women, these black women in the suburbs who will be deciders in the election, and all across the country, it was about what they think the path should be. it was great. >> let's look at the conversation where the women react to the debate. take a look. >> did anybody here think that joe biden after seeing the first debate, that joe biden should drop out of the race? >> i hoped that both candidates would drop out of the race. both. i didn't like either one of them. i didn't think they represented the united states well, and that's to joy's point, being in a different country -- i travelled outside the country a while ago to visit joy, and i get it. people are looking at the united

states, like, what are you doing, what are you all collectively smoking? it's embarrassing. i wish they both dropped out. >> same here. i wish they would both drop out. i am worried about biden's ability to run a country. i don't know if he will be able to do it if he's elected for the next four years, and he has other options in the party that could step up to carry out similar things he wants to carry out. >> trump is only a few years younger than biden. do you worry about him -- >> that man is unhinged. absolutely. no. i don't trust trump at all. >> symone, and you can take it to melissa, by the way, but i want to know what you both think in listening to the women in looking at the options, and it's

biden and camilla, versus trump and whoever, and that could be more stark whether or not biden is struggling with his age. fair to say? >> yeah, i think it's fair to say. melissa, i am interested in what you gleaned from that part of the conversation. it was a range of views, right? shelly, who also we have clips from the conversation that said she never thought about biden dropping out, but as the time went on and she saw more of the news she thought about the fact that she doesn't think there's an alternative, and she brought up on her own that democracy was on the line and talked about the supreme court and said the president would have a great number of people on his team as well and thinks we should stay with biden, and melissa, i don't know what you thought, but i thought the range of thoughts was very interesting. >> one of the things that i was

striking about the conversation, mika, was how practically-minded these women were, and they thought it was a choice between having a democracy and something like an autocracy. they all thought donald trump was unfit to be president. they just really worried if joe biden had the stamina and the vigor or could make it through a difficult campaign season to ultimately prevail. they said not prevailing was not an option, that this was a fundamental choice between maintaining a democracy and they wanted whatever would allow the country to get through this. >> some of the women actually said president biden should not be removed as the democratic candidate. let's listen to what they had to say. >> for me, my visceral emotional reaction after the 90 minutes was, wow, we need to find another path forward. the practicality of having who

would that next person be, and getting them on the ballot and raising money or getting access to the money raised, it feels impractical to change course, and it feels like strategically to rally around our guy and he has the best shot than the alternative. >> i didn't think about him dropping out, because i thought what is the alternative as being strategic, and somebody who could definitely defeat trump in the fall. as time has gone on, i still think that he should stay in the race because that's the trajectory we are on, and we all -- because he's not -- even though he is old and seemingly feeble, he surrounds himself with other people, and he's not

in there twiddling his thumbs, and once he wins in november we will be okay. >> so the obvious option, if president biden steps aside is the vice president, kamala harris, and this is what they had to say about the potential of her at the top of the ticket. >> i think strategically at this point if we were -- on at least the democratic side, we all know that polling for vice president harris is not as high as we would like, and i can't speak for everybody in here, but i think she's a great vice president, and at this point will that be a sure loss for us if we switch up or do we hedge our bets and hope that biden will pull through at least on the democratic side? yeah, i think both of them, i think, in my opinion, i agree with people that say there should be age limits or term limits on all of our federal

offices. >> including the supreme court. >> definitely. >> first of all, symone, what a thoughtful and dialed in group of women you found to talk to. they obviously understand politics and follow everything. you worked for kamala harris, and you hear in the comments a little trepidation with her at the top of the ticket. was what your takeaway? >> again, these women we spoke to and the range of women, right -- alexis, who was speaking last in the clip, and she's younger and i would argue a younger millennial, if you will, and graduated -- she lives and works outside of blue bell now, but she's originally from that area. she represented the sentiment of a lot of younger voters who say, hey, i am just looking at what is happening out here, my own

experience and these are my thoughts and what i think. i think voters, black women voters, especially, they are extremely pragmatic. none of the women in the group are professionals and not running different organizations, and some of them are in business, teachers, and home makers, and some of the women worked in marketing and finance. i think what we heard is a representative of truly what a lot of black women are saying across the country. coming up, were democrats caught flat-footed by the court's decision on presidential immunity. we will talk about the response to that decision when "morning joe" comes right back.

coming up, our next guest ss a candidate for congress, a democrat that has a new op-ed in the "washington post." the headline, joe biden should step aside now.

adam frish explains that position when "morning joe" comes right back. go to care.com now.

i know you love your dada. of course he loves you, he just doesn't show it on his face. or with his body language. [ cooing ] ♪ sweet child of mine ♪ pop! [ screams ] ♪

it's not just about dancing. it's a way to be together. my mom, she won't miss it, will she? >> your mom ever miss add pow-wow? she will be there. i'm calling about my sister's case. i did speak to the sheriffs. they said the res is federal jurisdiction. >> i didn't come all the way out here to fight. >> why did you come? >> worried about your sister. >> if she doesn't come back soon, the state will take roke.

>> it will be all right! >> just let me talk to her! >> hey, grab yourself. i thought we could head out to the pow-wow. ? >> that was part of the trailer from "fancy dance" starring lily gladstone. she plays an indigenous woman that fights against all odds to find her missing on an oklahoma reservation while trying to take care of her niece. at risk of losing custody the pair lilly gladstone and the film's director, erica tremblay. >> i want to start by asking you, you said this is a love letter to the native communities. tell us about the process of creating the story and why you

think it's important in this moment to time to share it. >> i was studying at a language immersion program so for my native language i was studying for eight hours a day and at night i was writing. i was really inspired by just the beautiful like matrolineal kinship that i saw in the language as i was learning. we lost our last fluid speaker in my community in 1989 so we're trying to reclaim the language. so i had just imagined doing a story of an aunty and a niece, a mother/daughter story, by way of an aunty and a niece. >> lilly, you are a hustler doing what it takes to put food on the table. i'm curious whether there was something about jax's journey that resonated with you personally. >> there was a lot of jax's experience that was familiar with the reservation that i grew

up, even though i grew up in montana, this was oklahoma. there are things that are super similar. i have been people in my family, your cousins, siblings, aunties and uncles are extension of your families. maybe jax is imperfect and making imperfect choices to which i say in opening scenes we can talk grand theft auto when we have the grand theft land conversation first. >> the way you depict both sex work and queerness in the film with such great and humanity, tell us about your personal -- your own personal experience in forming the characters and that part of the story. >> yeah, you know, as a queer native woman i was able to draw on my own personal experiences. i've also, you know, been a sex worker and the film is not like inherently queer or like these topics just kind of like live on the periphery.

jax just is queer as part of who jax is, and i love watching films like that where people are just who they are and then they're doing other things. we tried to apply humanity to everyone in the film in the hopes that you can kind of walk away recognizing why people made decisions even if we don't necessarily agree with all of them. but, yeah, it's great to be able to draw from your own real life experiences and put things on the screen that haven't necessarily been discussed in that way. >> well, there is a scene that we are going to show our audience which, lilly, is the scene where roki informs jax that she has gotten her first moon, her first period, and i could not stop laughing at this diner scene. >> you can have whatever you want. >> really? >> really. >> okay. i'll take the strawberry pancakes, the strawberry

waffles, the strawberry blintzes and whatever that one is. >> strawberry crepes? >> yeah, strawberry crepes. >> all right. >> oh, and do you have anything like cake or pie or dessert or something for when you're celebrating a big event. >> oh, is it your birthday? >> no, it's for my period. >> oh, well, i ant never celebrated that a day in my life, but i will see what i can do. >> these are two women on the run. >> yeah. >> so tell us about the scene and explain the ceremony also. >> you have a moment in the film where the characters are on the lam, where the walls are closing in on jax, where it's very prudent that they keep moving and not linger too long in one spot yet, of course, roki gets her first period, her first moon, which means she's becoming a woman. they're taking a moment to have this ceremony, this way of life that has been passed down since

time and memorial that binds this matrolineal love story, a story of cultural perpetuity and survival. i love that with erica's writing all of it, these immense centuries' old, millennial old allegories, these moments, live within a very small, contained, beat by beat between these two characters' intimate setting. >> i'm curious what the reaction has been from the community, the native community, that has seen it. >> well, i was so lucky to get to take this film to some elders, fluent speakers, and i think the most amazing moment that i have had so far on this is -- you know, and these are 80, 90-year-old elders who are seeing their language on the screen for the first time in their lives, and one of them came up to me after and squeezed

my cheeks and said, good job. and in that moment i was like, okay, i don't need to -- nothing else needs to happen with this film and i can -- i can be satisfied that an elder took me by the cheeks and told me what a good job i had done. and that -- that means -- that means everything. it means everything because -- a distribution deal is wonderful, winning awards, the critical acclaim is great, but when you've got an elder squeezing you and telling you you did a good job you take that in and you hold it forever. >> well, just looking at lilly's face reacting to your saying that, i can see how meaningful it is to both of you. my final question, lilly, is for you. what do you think happened to roki and jax in the end? because this film takes you through so many twists and turns. >> right. >> but i will say that final

scene you are smiling. your audience is rejoicing. so what is their future? >> you know, the same way that you watch thelma and louise take each other's hand and they've won even though they're driving off the cliff and it cuts, the audience knows gravity is going to kick in. the audience knows the gravity of the justice system and all of its inequity, in all of its design to keep these characters apart is going to fall, you know, it's going to come down on both of them in different ways. i hope that if people do want to sit down and try and break down exactly what's going to happen to these characters after that they think about people who are currently incarcerated, they think about kids who are turned into the system and they see these two people that they've grown to really love and root for in this narrative that these are people, these are people who are reacting to the circumstances of the life that

has been handed to them. these are people who love their kids, love their community, doing the best with what they've got. >> "fancy dance" is playing in theaters now and it's also streaming on apple tv plus. still ahead on "morning joe," one senate democrat is reupping calls to expand the supreme court by four seats in the wake of this week's decision on presidential immunity. nbc's is a hitt can a pure joins us with his latest reporting straight ahead on "morning joe." g straight ahead on "morning joe." power outages can be unpredictable, inconvenient,

and disruptive to your life, posing a real threat to your family's comfort and safety. when the power goes out, you have no lights, no refrigeration, no heating or air conditioning. the winds are not letting up at all here. we're going to see some power outages. number one thing to prepare for is extended power outages. are you prepared? you can be with a generac home standby generator. when a power outage occurs, your generac home standby generator automatically powers up, using your home's existing natural gas or propane, so your life goes on without disruption. you and your family are comfortable, safe, and secure. stay tuned, to get over a $500 value free on the most popular home standby generator in the world. with the generac, we don't have to worry about whether we lose power or not. if the utility company does not come through, our generac does. having a generac takes a lot of the anxiety out of, there's going to be a storm.

after the hurricane happened, we just want to be prepared for anything. generac generators are designed, engineered and built in the usa. 8 out of 10 home generators are generac, and have thousands of satisfied customers. how many times have you heard people say, i never want to go through that again? well, the next time you go through it, don't make it so hard on yourself. have a generac home standby generator. call or go online now to request your free quote with one of generac's nationwide dealers. special financing and low monthly payment options are available, and if you call now, you will also receive a free 5 year warranty valued at over $500. the call is free, the quote is free, and there's no obligation to buy. call or go online now, so the next time there's a power outage, your home powers up. power your life with generac. call or go online to request your free quote today.

it is 1 minute past the top of the hour. welcome to the fourth hour of "morning joe." 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. in the east. let us dive right into our top story this hour. president biden and his inner circle are digging in following his poor debate performance last week as a small, but growing number of democratic voices, say

they want him to step aside for the good of the party and the country. nbc news senior white house correspondent gabe gutierrez has the very latest. >> reporter: off camera at a virginia fundraiser president biden apologizing for that disastrous debate, saying he wasn't very smart for traveling around the world a couple times before that showdown with former president trump, and he quipped that he almost fell asleep on stage, adding, it's not an excuse, but an explanation. the president returned to the u.s. from back to back trips to europe, 12 days before the debate. meanwhile, this morning a political dam may be breaking. one of the president's most important allies, former house speaker nancy pelosi acknowledging concerns about the president's debate performance. >> i think it's a legitimate question to say is this an episode or is this a condition? so when people ask that question it's legitimate, of both candidates. >> reporter: adding that both he

and former president donald trump should take cognitive tests. congressman lloyd doggett of texas is becoming the first democrat to call for the president to leave the race. >> we must call on him of giving the ultimate sacrifice that he will step aside, the best way to save our country. >> reporter: as more democrats question whether he should step aside. >> raised questions about his physical condition. >> i don't think he's going to have a leg to stand on for very long. >> reporter: the "washington post" reporting overnight that former president barack obama has expressed concerns, privately telling allies that his former vp's path to the presidency has now grown more challenging. according to people familiar with the conversation. but that obama has offered support to biden. "the new york times" reports that in closed door meetings in recent weeks and months several current and former officials noticed the president increasingly appeared confused or listless or would lose the thread of conversations. >> i've got to say that doesn't look anything like the president

that i know. when i deal with him he's sharp, he's asking tough questions. >> reporter: as some democrats look for a way forward a new cnn poll suggesting that vice president kamala harris may do slightly better in a match up with trump than biden though the difference is in the margin of error. harris yesterday reaffirming her support. >> joe biden is our nominee. we beat trump once and we are going to beat him again, period. >> nbc's gabe gutierrez with that report. joining us for the fourth hour we have senior political columnist for "politico" jonathan martin. white house correspondent for "politico" and co-author of the playbook eugene daniels, host of "majority rules" on two way, lauren leader and president of the national action network and host of msnbc's "politics nation," reverend al sharpton. reverend al, i will start with you. we've had three hours of a lot of debate over president biden's condition. you know, at some point we should do a show on trump's

condition. you know, that one that he has that's so disturbing to so many. i mean, it's kind of a deep-seated condition. i wonder if it's even a health issue, but he can't -- he has trouble like -- he can't -- i tries, but he just can't seem to tell the truth ever practically in a debate. there's not one thing he says that's truthful except when he is truthful it's freaking frightening. it's about revenge, it's about, yeah, i got rid of abortion so women across america can be in agony and possibly bleed out and die. that's me. i'm that guy. so i'm just saying it's weird that no one is asking him to step out of the race. i'm going to leave that to editorial boards to look at themselves in the mirror when they're talking about joe biden right now. i'm not saying we don't have questions, rev. i think it's fair that we all want to see what's going to happen and we all want to hear

from joe biden and we want to see him do press conferences and see -- and see him answering off the cuff questions. and guess what, in the next week to ten days, that's exactly what he's going to do. >> no doubt about it. i think you hit it right on the head, mika. the fact of the matter is that if you're going to raise questions, then you should raise questions to both sides, and they have not raised any questions, not called for donald trump to step aside. not even have we seen him not even remember the name of his doctor that he was claiming gave him a test. can you imagine if joe biden had forgot his doctor's name and was shouting out the wrong name of his doctor? couldn't finish sentences. what is worse, though, is he's backed up by a run away supreme court now that has given him immunity. so there ought to be more concern, more front page stories

on, wait a minute, we have a guy who is not really seemingly in control of all of his faculties that is now backed up by the court and has changed the american body politic. so i really believe that there is an emphasis on the wrong candidate here. president biden is meeting with people, talking with people. we will see what he does with the stephanopoulos interview on friday. but donald trump is not doing an interview on his felonies. >> no. >> he is not doing an interview on the supreme court. so why are we holding biden to a different standard than we're holding trump? >> lauren leader, is this what you talk about on two-way? >> i mean, look, it's -- i think both things can be true and because biden is the sitting president and because there were these questions, i mean, the problem is of course that the trump administration -- or the trump campaign, you know, had been trying -- insisting for months and months that they deflect, right? everything that trump does he deflects and projects on to

somebody else. the more he was crazy, the more he tried to paint the president that way. then the president shows up on thursday night and, you know, seems to reinforce all the things that trump has said about him, they immediately run an ad that shows every time he's tripped or every time he's been physically out of it, et cetera. both things line up to be true. i think the context of the supreme court just adds to the terror among democrats that just like absolutely frightening possibility that trump becomes president again. so the stakes are just so high on all fronts and there is no easy answer. you know, biden was lagging in the polls before the debate. in some places he's doing better, i think he's doing better with independents. we've seen some signs since the debates that undecideds were trending towards biden, he had a good fundraising night, but all of these things are true at the same time and that's what making it so challenging. >> jonathan martin, what is your reporting showing you? a lot of governors are stepping out there and just making sure america sees their talents.

>> what a coincidence that is. >> it's just weird. yeah. >> suddenly we're seeing andy beshear and j.b. pritzger on national television. i can't imagine why they would all of a sudden want to take those hits. >> i just got gretchen whitmer's book. i can't wait to read it, i love her, but the timing is interesting. >> yeah, i wrote a column about governor whitmer yesterday because the timing of this book is extraordinary. now, it's a little delicate obviously because biden has not withdrawn, at least at this point, but, mika, she's going on this book tour starting this month that's going to take her to nantucket, martha's vineyard, san francisco, you know, real america -- well, real america at least in terms of where the donors of the democratic party live. so she's going to get all kinds of buzz i'm sure on this book tour. so that timing is fascinating. but, yeah, the governors, mika, are going to the white house today, some are going to dial in

on zoom, others are going to be there in-person. i think you will see them really sort of give biden a long look. i would be surprised if any of them use that meeting to demand is that biden withdraw because that would leak immediately and nobody wants to be seen holding the political murder weapon, but obviously there's pressure on biden that's coming from democratic lawmakers and governors and i think we're going to see more folks today and tomorrow in the congress, either go close to the line or cross the line of saying that biden should withdraw. >> okay. so that eugene daniel, what i'm also seeing on the hill is a move to kamala harris and a lot of interesting conversations about kamala harris, who, you know, for full transparency joe and i know her well and we really like her and i think she's really talented and i think on debates especially she would be fabulous. i think the former prosecutor in her would come out as it has

before, i'm speaking, and she would do great. and there's also, you know -- i want to be kind of honest of the analysis that i've heard that, you know, okay, there are some sections or voting blocks, maybe republicans who don't want to vote for trump or independents who can't seem to get their arms around the concept of kamala harris, for whatever reason. so is she the right running mate, is she the right whatever, but i'm seeing kind of a push toward her and even in the cnn poll she fared better against trump than biden. and then i hear someone like tim ryan saying let's get all around kamala. and then i'm thinking, eugene -- i'm finally landing my point here -- well, she is there. she's joe biden's vice president. so if you're getting around kamala harris, why throw away what has been an epic presidency with historic wins across the

board, around the world and in congress? >> i mean, i think the reason people want to throw it away as you put it is because they're scared. i think lauren is right, the democratic party is terrified. what we've seen from the supreme court, what they've seen from polling not just recently but for months and months and months gives them pause and has for many months. the idea that all of a sudden the democratic party woke up and didn't want joe biden is not true. that's always been the case, but the party coalesced around him. on vice president harris, first of all, her team does not want this kind of story out there, trust me, i did the calls. this is not something that they are interested in. it doesn't actually, they say, and her allies say help her. it's not beneficial to see her out there kind of compared against her boss, especially after so many years of making sure that his inner circle and him know that she's on his side. so she's made clear to her team that they are supposed to be out there telling these kinds of

stories. that hasn't stopped them, though, right? you have the cnn poll that you are talking about, you have people just kind of looking at the landscape and since thursday it's been a big shift. thursday night, friday, even some of saturday, you weren't hearing vice president harris' name and -- with the governors, right? something happened yesterday and tuesday and it's unclear what did other than the polling that people -- a lot of democrats looked around and said, actually, she's already on the ticket, she can take the money from the biden/harris campaign if he were to step aside it would be a natural bridge for his legacy. she could run on the biden/harris agenda and the wins that you're talking about without the added burden of being too old, which is what voters really have an issue with president biden. she -- her best issue, the issue she's been focusing on the most since dobbs is abortion. that's probably the singular issue that a lot of democrats are hoping this election is going to hinge on. and she has -- she's vetted

already nationally in a way these other governors aren't. so with all of those things people are taking a second look and a third and a fourth look, however, comma, it is really important that all of these folks still see it as kind of a fantasy, right? they see it as something that may not happen, but they think that if it is to happen, if something happens at the convention or before, that she's in a better position than a lot of folks give her credit for. >> okay. i love that, however, comma. it's like you're talking into your phone or you're actually trying to emphasize, i can't tell, but i love it. you've left me hanging. okay. there are growing concerns from down-ballot democrats that biden's struggles at the top of the ticket could cost them in their own races in november and someone sounding that alarm is colorado house candidate adam frisch who posted on x yesterday, quote, for some time i've been worried about the state of the presidential race. neither candidate is fit for

office, but only joe biden has the power and decency to move us forward by stepping aside and passing the baton to the next generation of leadership. and adam joins us now. he is the democratic nominee for the race in colorado's third congressional district. thank you very much, sir, for coming on. why do you feel it's important to say this now and not wait to hear from joe biden again? >> good morning, everybody. listen, i'm not a political analyst, that's your job, but where i can add some value to this conversation is i've driven 57,000 miles in the past two and a half years, first challenging lauren boebert, and now we're focusing on winning this year. i'm hearing -- these are not beltway insiders, i'm hearing from ranchers and farmers and small business owners, independents, republicans and, yes, a lot of democrats that they are very, very concerned. they see the polls, they know they possibly can change, but they're going in the wrong direction and they want to see

this next generation of leadership. and that's a conversation we've been having for years. >> lauren? >> yeah, adam, good morning. it's great to see you. i've followed your race for a long time, we're good friends for many, many years. we've talked a lot about what you have learned in this rural colorado district that you have lived for many years and what you hear from voters who have largely left the democratic party and yet were willing to consider you, you had the closest congressional race in the country in the last cycle. two questions related to that. one is you didn't say it in your "washington post" piece. if the president steps aside, what's the better solution? is it the vice president? do you think that makes a difference in your district? but also more importantly can you talk more about what democrats need to do to win back districts like yours? >> okay. good morning, lauren. always great to see you. hopefully live one of these days soon. listen, i think the first thing is i'm calling for a next generation of leadership. there's 15 people, the vice

president is certainly one of those people, there's a lot of other people that everyone is talking about. let them figure it out. we should have had an open election primary as a republican party had a year and a half ago. it certainly is not ideal, but we need to deal with the situation we have now and get over sunk costs and try to figure out the best way. let the voters decide or the public decide in some fashion. so i'm not here to figure out how to game that out, that's up to the voters. you know, a bigger conversation that we have had for a long time is that let's remember of the 2,000 rural counties in the country, bill clinton won half of the rural counties in 1996. president obama won 25% of them and with due respect to president biden, he won fewer than 10% of the rural counties. i've been saying for a very long time the democratic party needs to do more than 20 big cities, telluride and martha's vineyard. to see that's where the democratic party is. people that are producing steel

like pueblo, people producing food like the farmers and energy producers, that's where the democratic party needs to get back to. >> adam, al sharpton. also don't you think it would be beneficial to candidates, democratic candidates for congress, if they talked about the threat that this supreme court decisions have made in terms of now we're dealing with probably giving a president unprecedented powers that this country was not built on? so there can be debates of whether people agree with you on new generation or not, but everyone i think has to agree that we have a threat to democracy. is that not also something you would advise, adam, that a lot of congressional people should campaign on, which is why we need a strong congress that can counter with the judicial branch of government now led by this -- in my opinion -- run away

supreme court has put us in a very bad position. >> yeah, thanks for asking that, sir. you know, i think the number one supreme court issue that remains focus for people kind of boots on the ground is overturn of roe v. wade and the dobbs decision. i appreciate there's a lot of concerns about democracy. our country is going to survive. i will say this with respect to people on the show and elsewhere, if your top two issues are the climate crisis and the democracy conversation you should feel very lucky you are in a really good position in your life. the people i'm talking to are trying to figure out how to afford health care and child care, make sure if they should buy clothing for their kids or buy more food. to me that is something that the democratic party as well as the republican party as well is missing. they're not focused on what i'm hearing. i've done a 57,000 mile focus group and they're focused on how do they keep their heads above water over the next couple days and months. of course the climate crisis is

real, of course democracy is important but they're trying to figure out how to get by the next month or three. that's something i think both parties especially the democratic party have been missing for a long time. >> well, i mean, i think fair to say a couple of things can be true at the same time because i think some of the people you're talking about that you're hearing from also depending on where they live, some states have them bleeding out in hospital rooms because they can't get the health care that they need. so abortion is as front and center as some of the issues that you're putting at the top. in terms of democracy and climate, but democracy, we kind of need a democracy to be able to give americans the freedoms they deserve. so i don't think you can write it off as not a top issue. it may not be front of mind for people who are trying to get through the week, but the benefits of living in a democracy i'd just say that americans are perhaps inured if you're not thinking about this to the freedoms that we have before us. they're not -- they're not for

free, they're not easy to get and this easily slips away into something terrible. is that fair to say, sir? >> no, without a doubt. listen, freedom is important, democracy is important, but the reason i called for the president to step aside with a heavy heart is, listen, governing is hard, but if you don't win you don't govern. and so i think if the democratic party wants to govern they have to win and right now i don't see anything out there fact based that says that the democratic party is going to win the white house with the current president running, and i say that with a heavy heart. it's not about past results, it's not about how good of a man he is. >> right. okay. okay. okay. thank you. democratic nominee for the house in colorado's third congressional district, adam frisch. thank you very much for sharing your opinions this morning. we appreciate it. >> thank you. all right. senior political columnist for "politico," jonathan martin, and white house correspondent for "politico," eugene daniels, thank you both. j. mart, i just want to ask that

you're looking for in the days ahead, especially as it pertains to joe biden. >> yeah. so i've watched two things, one is the polling data, are there more polls coming out today and tomorrow from independent news outlets that are going to show real movement toward -- toward donald trump, and if that's the case i think you're going to see more elected democrats in congress and in the ranks of the governors call for president biden not to run again, and hear similar calls from top donors in the party. the polling i think is going to drive this and if the polling goes south it will increase the pressure on biden because those democratic lawmakers are going to step forward and do what lloyd doggett did yesterday. coming up, jerome powell says he is satisfied with the progress made on inflation, but has he seen enough to start cutting interest rates? we will play for you his comments. also ahead, while many

countries are toying with the idea of implementing a shorter workweek, one country is looking in the opposite direction. cnbc's andrew ross sorkin joins us with the details behind the push for a six-day workweek. that's straight ahead on "morning joe." workweek. that's straight ahead on "morning joe."

what if we don't get down in time to get a birthday gift for zoe? don't panic. with etsy we can find the perfect gift, and send her a preview right away. thanks guys.

[ surprised scream ] don't panic. gift easy with etsy. - [narrator] life with ear ringing sounded like a constant train whistle i couldn't escape. then i started taking lipo flavonoid. with 60 years of clinical experience, it's the number one doctor recommended brand for ear ringing. and now i'm finally free. take back control with lipo flavonoid. the moment i met him i knew he was my soulmate. "soulmates." soulmate! [giggles] why do you need me? [laughs sarcastically] but then we switched to t-mobile 5g home internet. and now his attention is spent elsewhere. but i'm thinking of her the whole time. that's so much worse. why is that thing in bed with you? this is where it gets the best signal from the cell tower! i've tried everywhere else in the house! there's always a new excuse. well if we got xfinity you wouldn't have to mess around with the connection. therapy's tough, huh? -mmm. it's like a lot about me. [laughs] a home router should never be a home wrecker.

oo this is a good book title. that inflation is moving sustainably down toward 2% before we start the process of -- of reducing how tight our policy is, of loosening policy. that was federal reserve chairman jerome powell on the reluctance to cut interest rates right now. meanwhile, the latest economic data just released pound that private payroll growth edged lower in june. that report is a precursor to the closely watched jobs report which is due out friday morning.

let's bring in the co-anchor of cnbc's "squawk box," andrew ross sorkin, he's also a columnist for "the new york times." andrew, no rate cut? rate cut? what do you think? >> it's very unlikely we get a rate cut in 2024. i think that's the new expectation. maybe we get one if we get one at all would be in november which would be after the election, not before it. i think just the language and the tone and just the way i think jerome powell was talking about it, even the idea of how he expects to get to 2% and how he's sort of pushing out that -- not the goal of getting to 2% but how long it may take into '25, potentially into '26, just suggests that he's not necessarily ready to necessarily to cut rates. i think you would have to see unemployment go up in a meaningful way. of course, we will get the unemployment number on friday from the bureau of labor relations. today the number came in light

but not that light. interestingly, most of those jobs on the positive side coming in leash sure and hospitality, we are still living at least this did you mean s. upper in a yolo word, people are out and about, paying for leisure and hospitality and experiences and that part of our economy does not seem to be slowing down one bit. >> okay. so can we talk about a six-day workweek? >> yes. you want to move to greece this morning? >> is that where that's happening? i have to tell you in the us of a i'm seeing something a little different. i don't know. what about you? >> so the government in greece planning to implement literally it would start tomorrow or i believe in 24 hours. >> whoa. >> a six-day workweek in greece. they believe they need to do this in part, by the way, because they don't have enough skilled labor. there's been something like 500,000 skilled people that have

left greece since 2007. it's created huge pressure on that country. you're right, as we are moving to a maybe three or four-day workweek, often to the chagrin of some of the managers of businesses around the united states, greece seems to be going in the opposite direction. they are desperate for growth, they believe this is maybe one of the only opportunities they have and they have not obviously figured out whatever we think is going to happen to ai and whether it has taken people's jobs, it has not taken people's jobs in greece at least for now at least. it will just be for jobs that effectively require sort of service, you know, all the time. it's not for everybody. and you will be paid more for it. you're going to have a choice between working an extra two hours a day or another eight-hour workday. so you can pick your own, i don't know, hopefully not poison, hopefully you love your job. >> that sounds wonderful. yay, greece. okay. cnbc's andrew ross sorkin, thank you very much. >> you are on the air for four

hours a day, my dear. come on. >> let's just do, what -- what do we do, 20 hours a week? let's add it to 30. >> all the prep and work, there's a lot going on. >> we're fine. we're blessed. thank you very much andrew ross sorkin. >> happy independence day. >> lauren leader and rev al, given the show we have had this morning and the chorus of members of congress and some democrats who think joe biden should step aside, what's his way forward? i mean, what does he need to do? is there a clear path as to what he needs to do to get this behind him? lauren? >> look, i think rev and i both agree it's very unlikely to happen. neither of us think he's stepping down. and i was on a call -- >> i will agree. >> -- with campaign staff you get no sense that this is a real possibility and i actually happen to be in the camp that believes it would be actually terrible for the country if he did and create chaos and all of the rest of it. but there is, i think, a clear

path forward and i think polls change and the thing that's been missing from this campaign from the beginning has been a really clear -- we've been talking about it as like the hope and change message. i want the clear message from the president about what he is going to do and in the context of the supreme court this week, i want to know, is he going to be willing to expand the court? he has said no to that in the past, he explored it when he was running for president president and then once he became president declined. in the current moment what's his plan? i want to know will he override the filibuster for the abortion debate. i think we both believe if he does that, if they can just make a clear case for what he will do that is not just about not trump, but is really about what, yes, biden, i think he wins. >> i definitely agree. i think that if the president comes out and gives a clear

message that this is what is at stake, this is what i want to see done, this is what i've done and rallies the country around those things, specifically, as well as the broad. i take very seriously, i mean, and a lot of people are concerned after the supreme court decision, i think that he can rally -- the one thing, mika, that i think is missing, you know, i was a kid, but i remember in '68 when johnson -- i was about 13 or 14 when johnson stepped aside. there were people protesting, calling for him to step aside. there was masses against the vietnam war. we are hearing insiders in the beltway talking about what biden should do. i'm not seeing masses of people out there saying step aside. i'm not hearing that on my radio show. there's some that are saying it. it's mixed. but if we let polls decide now when somebody should continue

going forward or not, then the last two or three democratic presidents would have never been elected. i think we need to take a deep breath and deal with what it is that we represent to this country and the threat that we now have and then move forward. >> i think it's only respectful to give him a chance to see what -- where this goes and to make that decision for himself with the help of his family, but i don't think there's much of a decision given his record. so we shall see. i mean, i agree with both of you. there's a way forward here and it is much easier said than done trying to come up with an alternative. joe biden has beaten donald trump and he has had a historic presidency. by all accounts on every level. so we'll see. coming up, the white house is weighing its options on how to respond to the supreme court's landmark decision to

grant donald trump widespread immunity. new reporting on what the biden administration is considering next. we will be right back. tion is c next we will be right back. when i'm cold? wait, no, i'm always hot. sleep number does that. shop our lowest prices of the season with free home delivery when you add a base. sleep number smart beds starting at $999. learn more at sleepnumber.com

i used to leak urine when i coughed, laughed or exercised. i couldn't even enjoy playing with my kids. i leaked too. i just assumed it was normal. then we learned about bulkamid. an fda approved non-drug solution for our condition. it really works, and it lasts for years. it's been the best thing we've done for our families. call 800-983-0000 to arrange an appointment with an expert physician to determine if bulkamid is right for you. results and experiences may vary. we're trying to save the planet with nuggets. determine if bulkamid is right for you. because we need the planet. and we also need nuggets.

impossible. we're solving the meat problem with more meat. why do couples choose a sleep number smart bed? i need help with her snoring. sleep number does that. thank you. shop our lowest prices of the season with free home delivery when you add a base. sleep number smart beds starting at $999. learn more at sleepnumber.com

250 years ago america was founded in defiance of a king, under the belief that no one is above the law, not even the president, until now. the same trump supreme court that overturned roe v. wade ruled that the president can ignore the law, even to commit a crime, because donald trump asked them to. he's already led an insurrection and threatened to be a dictator on day one. donald trump can never hold this office again. >> i'm joe biden and i approved this message. that was a new ad from the biden/harris campaign warning of a second trump administration under the new supreme court ruling that gives presidents broad immunity over official acts. the biden white house says it's currently weighing its options on how to respond to that

decision. joining us now with some of those possible plans is nbc news senior national political reporter shahid kapoor. >> the white house is considering options for how to respond to the blockbuster ruling. white house spokesperson ian sam's telling me, quote, we are reviewing the decision and certainly will be exploring what could be done to address it to better safeguard democracy given this dangerous precedent. could that be legal memos outlining or constraining the powers, could it be direct action by the president, policy changes? there are no further details on that yet. congressional democrats have reacted with outrage but their response has been scattered without a clear plan of action. in the senate which democrats control dick durbin said, quote, the court has stripped the justice department of its valued independents and undermined its commitment to the rule of law

but his office said they have nothing to share specifically in terms of a committee response. the justice department declined to comment when asked if they have anything in the works responding to this 6-3 ruling which broke along ideological lines. liberal advocates who focus on the courts are dismayed by what they see as a sloe reaction to democrats. one of them a former chief counsel for a democratic senator telling me, quote, this is a break glass moment for american democracy in the face of this total assault he says on american democracy. democrats have somehow been caught flatfooted, unquote. so what should they do? he is calling for hearings and investigations into corruption of the supreme court which liberals argue is a factor in this decision as well as new legislation to impose ethical standards, a more aggressive message to rally voters behind a vision to react to this ruling and to reform the supreme court. now, remember, democrats' immediate hours are limited. the biden administration cannot bind a future president to its

legal interpretation of this ruling and democrats don't have the power to pass legislation in congress without reel buy-in. the advocates want a message to rally voters behind what they see as an opportunity to channel a serious amount of anger. the one thing president biden is doing is implicitly calling on voters to never let donald trump near these new found presidential powers that the court has recognized. let's take a listen to what biden said. >> i know i will respect the limits of the presidential powers i have had for three and a half years, but any president including donald trump will now be free to ignore the law. >> now, trump for his part has celebrated the ruling saying it's a big win for our constitution and democracy and quickly moved to throw out his felony convictions in new york, citing that ruling. mika? >> of course. nbc's shahid kapoor, thank you very much. coming up, our next guest is shining a light on how women have transformed competitive sports over the years,

shattering misconceptions about female athletes. we will speak with the author of the new book "better faster farther: how running changed everything we know about women." that's ahead on "morning joe." e" that's ahead on "morning joe."

can you do this? as early as your 40s you may lose muscle and strength. protein supports muscle health. ensure max protein has a 30 gram blend of high quality protein to feed muscles for up to seven hours. so take the challenge. ensure, nutrition for strength and energy.

nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid for twice as long as pepcid. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium.

let's see who is going to paris. it wasn't the best start from sha'carri richardson, now sha'carri starts to wind up, goes past jefferson. sha'carri richardson! that was sha'carri richardson qualifying for her first olympic games after winning the 100 meter finals late last month in eugene, oregon. richardson finished in first place with an incredible time of 10.71 seconds. for runners like richardson who will be going for gold at the

paris olympics, their path to success was paved by the many women before them. after all, throughout history a number of men in the medical establishment, media and athletic associations have fought to keep women from running. sometimes literally trying to push them out of the race. that picture, by the way, is katherine switzer who in 1967 became the first woman to officially run the boston marathon despite the race organizer trying literally to throw her out. in her new book entitled "better faster, farther: how running changed everything we know about women" journalist maggie mertens tells the story of katherine switzer and other women who have defied limitations and propelled themselves to the forefront of competitive running. and maggie joins us now. i don't know if you are a runner, but i am, and i love this. i think we need this so much.

what did you set out to do in putting together this book? >> oh, this book started for me, you know, many years ago. i grew up as the only girl in my family, i have four brothers, and i've always been a sports enthusiast, a sports fan and, you know, as a journalist i really started my career writing a lot about -- about women in the workplace and the pay gap and the ceo gap, things like that. >> right. >> and when i started to apply those same findings to, you know, women athletes i was shocked, you know, we are not talking about just like 60 cents on the dollar, we are talking about less than 1% of what their male peers make in some instances. and i was often faced with this response that, you this respons you know, this is because of biology. this is because women are physiologically weaker and slower and less valuable in this athletic marketplace. i wanted to look into the context of that, the history

there, and the myths that women have been told about their own physiological capabilities. >> so in the book you write about the untold stories of ground breaking female runners. is there a favorite that you had in all of this? >> yeah, i had one, florence mcdonald is this incredible runner. she was in the 1928 olympics. she was only an 18-year-old then. that was the first olympic games where women were allowed to have track and field events. there were only three running events for the 100 meter, the 4 by 100 meter relay, and the 800 meter, and there was a lot of myth making and fear mongering around the 800 meter race even before it began because there were a lot of people who said that this was going to be too hard on the female body, these two laps around the track, the 800 meter and, you know, in the aftermath, actually, there were all these stories that said the

women didn't make it or they dropped out or they fainted or needed medical attention afterwards and i was able to kind of piece together florence's story who she was the only american who made the final, and she had never really been quoted in any of this media coverage about what really happened, and i was able to sort of talk to her son who is still alive and find an interview that was done with her when she was in her 90s kind of explaining what really happened in this race and that all of the women actually did really great. >> they made both laps, that's amazing. lauren leader, go ahead. i love this, i love a rewriting of history that fills in the pictures where we've never had it. i was curious about what you feel like were really the big turning points in terms of the elevation of women in the sport obviously. i think about women like flo jo.

how much did title ix make a difference to where women could participate in sports like running at the highest level? >> title ix has made a huge difference in the way that women's sports is perceived. it took time. the women's olympic marathon did not exist until 1984. this is only the 40th anniversary of the women's olympic marathon, and even up to that point, you know, in the 1980s when they were voting on whether to include this event, there were still doctors saying this might not be, you know, physiologically possible for women. this might not be physiologically beneficial for women. you know, there might be undue health effects. so you know, we've had to fight these myths so far along the way. title 9 is one step. there have been so many steps before that of women doing things when they were told they were not able to and when they

had no access. >> so what's next? because obviously now we do have these like big sports stars and the olympics are coming, and a lot of these runners are becoming household names. you mentioned that they are paid very small amounts of money on the dollar relative to their male counterparts. what do we need to do now to make sure that women's sports in the running arena is fair and on par with the men? >> yeah, i mean, i think a large part of it is the way that we talk about it is the way that we, you know, value these women athletes, whether it's running, whether it's basketball, whether it's soccer, all of those things we need to start seeing these physical capabilities as so impressive, as impressive as what these male athletes do all the time and are kind of given the benefit of the doubt. we don't need to be treated as second class citizens when it comes to sports because what these women athletes are doing is just as elite and just as

impressive. i think once we have that conversation where we don't have to push them to the side or the margins, we're going to start, you know, being able to accept women as part of this beautiful piece of humanity that, you know, sports is -- that's the reason sports is so exciting and interesting is we love to see people push themselves to their limits and women are just as capable of that as men are. >> the new book is entitled better, faster, farther, how running changed everything we know about women. it's on sale now, maggie mertens, thank you so much for coming on the show and for writing this book, and for more with maggie, check out our interview with her at knowyourvalue.com. this is obviously a big-time story. we appreciate it. and up next, a look at some of the stories making front page headlines across the country. we'll be right back. be right ba.

a quick look at some of the morning pattern's headlines before we go today, in california the sacramento bee leads with a controversial decision to stop water deliveries to homeless camps. a spokesperson for sacramento county says the deliveries were paid for by money received from federal covid relief funds which have since run out. now activists are asking officials to reconsider their decisions, especially since the area is currently in the midst of a heat wave. and in florida "the orlando sentinel" is highlighting a push from the biden administration to create heat protections for outdoor workers across the country. the proposed rules from the department of labor include requiring employers to provide water and rest breaks when temperatures reach certain thresholds. this comes months after florida governor ron desantis signed a bill barring local governments from imposing such requirements

on businesses. all right, we have just under a minute left. we'll do 30 seconds final thoughts to each of you. reverend al, we'll start with you. >> i think as we go into the 4th of july tomorrow, we ought to think about what the country is supposed to stand for, especially in light of the supreme court decision and make a sober analysis, quite whining, figure out how to start winning for those who want to save democracy. >> solutions, solutions, solutions, focus on rallying americans around the things they care about most, get to work. get to work saving the country. >> yeah. and i'll be watching president biden as he does his first interview since the debate and then i believe heads to the nato summit. the week after he'll be doing press conferences and i think we will have all the answers we need in the days to come. that does it for us this morning, happy fourth, everyone. ryan nobles picks up the coverage