since ex-president donald trump was found guilty. when asked if she's concerned about a second certainly, here's what stormy daniels had to say. >> shouldn't we all be worried about that? >> worried about it particularly for you? >> yes. >> why? >> because i think that he try to make even more of an example out of me. also, because people -- his followers will probably be even more bold, thinking if they do something, he'll pardon them. >> you can catch me saturdays on the 12:00 p.m. eastern right here. that does it for me. witching you all a happy fourth of july tomorrow. "the reid out" is up next. >> tonight on "the reid out" -- >> we will find out the

conspiracytory. we're going to come after you, whether it's criminally or civilly, we'll figure it out. we're putting you all on notice. that's warm-up trump's top guys, kash patel, back in september. and now this man is doubling down on that threat, warning of violence if the rest of us don't go along with the maga republicans' so-called second american revolution. also, tonight after filling the supreme court with justices, offering depickable lies where democrats stand on an abortion, request a dark future ahead for women, if trump wins. and we begin tonight with hurricane beryl hurdling toward

the caribbean. we're weathering a different kind of storm here at home. on the eve of america's independence day, the leonard lee on six on the supreme court have creed that the american president is, in fact, a king. so all hail king biden, am i right? right now the king is joe biden, also the democratic party's candidate to be president/king again. despite some democrats jumping ship, and the frantic meetings being called, today biden told his campaign staff -- let me say this as clearly as i possibly as i can. i am running. no ones is pushing me out. i'm not leaving, i'm in this race under the end ♪ i am telling you ♪

okay. the truth is, this is basically who democrats are, okay? they're the anxiety people. they're always freaking out, assuming they're going to lose. they are also a normal political party. debating whether an elderly president is the right to beat an american hitler is unsurprising, and honestly pretty politically healthy. and who this democrat nominee is is important, because it speaks to the strategy of how to keep king donald off the iron throne, but real talk, it doesn't matter. no, actually, it really doesn't matter. honestly, any democrat, any of them would be solid presidents, and far preferable to the republican alternative, because all of them believe in the rule of law. each of them would follow the traditional role of the presidency, and not try to be an

american pew edge. none of them would use s.e.a.l. team six to assassinate. none of them would arrest the entire trump family and charge them with treason and put them in public show trials. none of them would round of millions of migrants and put them in camps. none of them would turn this into a christian hellhole and ban books, and not a single one of them would outlaw abortion or birth control. but you know who would do those awful things? that would be king trump. trump. through his weak, spineless party, and the heritage foundation's project 2025 plan. the six on the court saying the president must be bold and rule

by fiat. they'll be his loyal hands to rule us. so, the fantasy football conversation and the mainstream media about the democratic party nominee, okay, go for it. just remember, there is no one on the democratic side, including the super-old guy, who is a threat to american democracy. pay as many attention as you can to the debate. it's a worthy debate, but vote for whoever that person is, and every democrat below them on the ticket, because the alternative? is king trump and project 2025 as the new rule of law. make no mistake u. thanks to this abomination of a supreme court majority, the maga right is so confident they can undo every good thing that was done in the 20th century for people of color, women, immigration, lgbtq people, for everyone they're so confident they can get back to conservative so-called white christian men

rule over anyone else, they're openly saying it, in public. for all you swifties out there, "newsweeks" is a bad role model. why? because at 34 years of age she remains unmarried and childless. welcome to the new 1950s, where about successful as a woman doesn't count. but celebrated for your art doesn't count. all that matters is you're married to a mand and have some kids. them people have a plan, and they're certainly not shy about it. should donald trump be reelected and elected king, god help us all. he will be surrounded by people like this guy, the head of the heritage foundation, the folks behind project 2025, who said the quiet part real loud and

televised. >> we are going to win. we're in the process of taking this country back. we're in the process of the second american revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be. joining mess is the former president and director counsel of the legal defense fund. sherylen my friend, thank you for being here. when i heard him, i thought he's not going to do anything violent. he east be golfing in a country club while others do the dirty work. he likes to talk a lot of crap, but it is still a threat. i took it as a declaration of war, how did you take it? >> well, the gloves are obviously off, and they are no longer afraid to say what their true intentions are.

when i heard it, though, joy, what it made me was angry in a very particular kind of way. i'm not sure who these people think they are, but the idea of some second american revolution, they are the confederacy. they don't get the title of american revolution, her the confederacy bent on destroying this country. if they think that what we have gone through, certainly as black people in this country, as women, as gay people, as the disabled, as people who are poor trying to find their way up to make their children's lives better than theirs, if they think we are about to throw that all off and knuckle under to the likes of stephen miller and this man, and donald trump, they have got to be kidding. i am also from queens. i can tell you the donald trumps of the world, we understood exactly who they were when i was growing up in queen.

no matter how much money he had, he was not fit, not worthy of the love and attention that these people have lavished on him. we will not go back. what's important, joy, is for people -- we have to stand in our power. the idea that this person feels empowered to threat threaten us publicly in this way and that we don't respond -- thank you for your show, joy -- is focused on president biden, and his age, and you know, whether they have been deceived about his health, and so on and so forth. not the fact that once who was fully locked in is threatening us. not with whether or not the united states supreme court has discussed i decided that the rule of law no longer sayses. he is no longer covered, so these are powerful led that we

were be talking about, and we spent right to them and may it clear it's not going to happen. that's going to take strategy and work, and we have to start talking about that. >> on the night of the debate, i got all the texts, reported them dutifully. let me tell you what keeps me up at night, not joe biden being old and shuffling. the heritage foundation's project 2025 said they'll expand presidential power to confirm john roberts ease edict that the president is a king. they're going to reverse the fda approval of abortion medication, condemning women in blue states. they're going to reverse the interpretation of the emergency medical treatment, means women will die in the emergency room.

they'll block gender-affirming health care, and eliminate the epa, they'll dismantle the noaa, means we won't know when a hurricane is coming. beryl is in jamaica. i could go on, sheryl i lynn. the reason i can't -- that's not what keeps me up at night. biden being old is a fact. this keeps me up at night. i wonder how do we get democrats to stop and focus on this. >> those are perhaps whose lives will not be fundamentally changed by us becoming not a democracy anymore, except they won't be able to say the things

they say now when these talk in the briefing room. they'll be in a different situation, but there are people who will truly suffer. our country will truly suffer if just a part of that list that you just described is able to be brought to fruition. it will mean the end of democracy in this very young country. that will mean pain for millions of people. like you, i cannot spend time on president biden being 81, because i knew he was 81 before he started the debate. we saw him at the d-day ceremonies, we saw him do the state of the union, we saw him the day after the debade. we saw all of those things. right now we have to understand and organize this year is about voting for our survival as a democracy.

after we get past that, after we have vanquished the danger that stands in front of us, then we can begin to talk about the other things we need to do to make our democracy stronger, including changing the supreme court, including closing loopholes in the senate, like filibuster, all of these things that also stand in the way of true democracy in this country, but we better wake up. we're not in some position where it can't happen to us. it can, and it is happening if we look at the supreme court's decision the other date. we need to get straight and focused. they have written down their intentions. they have a playbook, a day one plan. they go agency by agency in this report to try to dismantle the very things that protect us. what do people think the federal government does? it protects us. that's what the civil war and the 14th amendment was all about, we needed to recalibrate

protection in this country. we're supposed to be protected by the federal government, whether it's agencies that protect us against unsafe products or drugs or the justice department that protects us against rogue police officers and police departments, that's what they want to dismantle, so they can have their way with us and leave us to the will of the states. we have to focus and fight back against it. >> that's why called neo-confederates. in you've seen in oklahoma the 50th state in the union in terms of their education quality, last place, the edict there in that state that now every school they will teach from the bible. they're picking their own branch of christianity, their version and they're going to -- that is going to substitute for actual education. these same schools are slashing

preschool, letting women go hung remember, die in child bird. texas has an increased child mortality rate because of abortion bans. this is already happening. they know that this majority will ample merging church and state. that's the fight, right? >> it's true. that's why i don't understand the number one consideration is the supreme court. no matter what any democrat does, even if joe biden is reelected, this supreme court that is made cheer what they will do. we have to look at the house and the senate, because supreme court reform has to be the first order of business. >> yes. >> otherwise, no other progressive things that people want will be able to go forward, because the court has made clear.

>> focus, everyone. you need to win more seats. you need the house, the senate and the white house. yesterday michael steele told us he's already hearing five more right-wingers on the supreme court if trump gets in. five more clarence thomases and alitos. thank you, my friend, for joining us tonight. >> thank you, joy. coming up, more on the immense threat that a temp presidency that it poses, and the important of the down ballot races. this is critical stuff, guys. stay with us. this is critical ss stay with us e there is one, others aren't far behind. well that's horrifying. always scavenging... ortho home defense max indoor insect barrier. one application kills and prevents bugs for 365 days. nature is wild. your home doesn't have to be.

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it's not just about the presidential election, you guys. it's time to play chess, not checkers. it's about making decisions that will affect us as human beings. our careers, our next generations to come. did you know it is now a crime to be homeless? pay attention. it's not a secret. look it up. they are attacking our most vulnerable citizens. the project 2025 plan is not a game. look it up! >> chess, not checkers. it's not a game. that is actress taraji p. henson

edging people to look it up. global trends that the guide to authoritarianism for dumbius is surging after the b.e.t. award show. way to go, taraji. thank you both for being here. i want to start with you, tara. wwrd, i know you're a former, but what would republicans do. it's fascinating to see the way the other side operates. literally donald trump could kill a person on fifth avenue, and they would say, so? they're going to triple down on him. it doesn't matter. i halfway think he would pass away and they would say, i'm still voting for him. at this point democrats face a true existential threat.

okay? donald trump, where we're -- they want to consolidate presidential power into the full kingdom that john roberts wants. they said to roll back reproductive rights, gay marriage is on the table. they want to create camps, concentration camps. they want to basically gut climate change, and they want to expand on education and dei programs. that's important, right? that's what we should be running about. >> it's so frustrating watch this circular firing squad coming from democrats, because republicans don't do this. as we have seen, republicans they fall in line. you fall in line behind your guy. i just don't get how, at this point, given president biden's report as president, he has a

record to run on. yet because he had a bad debate, he's a little old, they're freaking out. in america, we're resilient. imagine in the union army started to flip out if they lost after the battle of manassas. that's not what we do. i don't understand what's happening right now. this is a fantasy of trying to switch out president biden for anyone else. it's impractical logistically. meanwhile, on the other size, to your point -- i'm so glad you're focusing on 2025. i've been screaming from the rooftops for months about this. i know how republicans have been stewing on this. this is a fever dream of theirs for years, to basically now have a manifesto that is above the constitution. these are things that are almost not constitutional. they're not aligned with american democratic values.

then as il-lil rule party. i cofounded the seneca project to target moderate women in swing states, they understand what is at stake, so they can tell the stories about how women's rights are on the line. our lives as women are literally on the line here. >> yes. >> when you hear people like the head of the heritage foundation or they rnc delegates that they have to criminalize women if they have to go there life-saving measures, this is what's at stake on top of all the other things, the concentration camps, the public executions and public show trials. donald trump is a sick individual. the republican party is a sick and perverted party that wants to destroy or democracy in favor of some that none of us want to do, but biden is old. it's outrageous.

>> and his britain is mush. >> may i jump in? >> yes, please. >> what's most striking in the clip you played was the confident of the president of the heritage foundation. the reality, based on these recent supreme court rulings, they're two thirds of the way they. they want to give donald trump unchecked power. they want to eliminate major agencies within the federal government. we're already seen that with the chevron ruling. they want to eliminate key components of federal regulations -- abortion, gender, race, equity. these are explicit words marked in project 2025 for complete deletion. they are two thirds of the way there with the chevron ruling and the blanket immunity rulings that the supreme court handed down, understanding this 6-3 composition will only again potentially entrenched further

under another trump term. the only thing, the last third of their equation is getting him elected king. this is where they have the opportunity to stand up and interject in this moment for decades and generations to come. >> yeah. i want to stay with you for a minute, juan knit -- juanita. we need to start thinking about these other races. the senate races that are up. democrats must hold the senate. you must hold the senate, democrats. you need to think about these races. is there an opportunity to pick up something? could you pick up florida or one of these races? is there an absolute nut job runs in places like indiana? do ballot measures give you opportunities. abortion is on the ballot in

multiple states. are those opportunities democrats, where you can make movements among republican voters, republican moderates, and each of you i want to talk about that. where are the keep places for people to focus, beyond the president? >> i am so grateful you put of those abortion ballot initiatives. we have seen voters in 2022 and 2023 cross democrat graphic lines, to protect abortion access when it's on the ballot. i'm definitely looking at arizona, florida and nevada as massive opportunities for democrats to really tap into the energy that voters will be turning out with as it relates to the ballot mosh you are. i'm looking at gubernatorial races, joy. republicans have a slate of candidates who are unhinged. think about the candidate in

north carolina, that wants to go back to the time when women doesn't have the right to vote? think about the bans that a person like that would impose. this is what democrats and voters have to pay attention to. >> last word to you, tara. where should democrats be focusing? >> everywhere there's an election and there's a democrat on the ballot. they have to understand that the choices are binary. people, we've seen, republicans have done this for decades, all the way down to the school board. you built a grass-roots coalition there. this is -- you see what's happening in states individually. donald trump says, oh, no, he wants to send these things back

to the states. well, guess who is in the state in you need to start paying attention. democrats, pay attention and stop this. get behind your candidate, get unified, and make sure you fully understand that our -- and cut it out with all this other stuff. >> vote for that, and everything down the line. this is your job, one job, until that party is normal again and they can reseat and be two normal parties again, you have one job, y'all. juanita tolliver, tara, thank you very much. they're calling for clarence thomas to be investigated for failing to disclose multiple trips. chief counsel joins me next. chief counsel joins me next.

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something that should not be lost amid the outrage from the supreme court ruling, that justice clarence thomas, one of the six who ruled that donald trump should have absolute, if not implied immunity, not only was his own wife part of that effort to overturn the election, alongside the alitos, who flew

an upsidedown flag, but also ruling, he, like alito, was plagued by multiple conflicts of interest. thomas, unlike any prior member of the supreme court, eightlio included, has a long list of ethics issues, having accepted literally millions in what the court might call gratuities. that list grew longer when the senate judiciary committee disclosed undisclosed gift trips from harlan crow. notion a watch d.a. dog group has filed a new complaint to the attorney and chief justice of the supreme court to have justice thomas properly investigated. joining us is donald herming. thank you so much, mr. sherman, for being here. we all know what's happened, justice thomas, we know there

have been even more gifts we found. there's been an exhaustive list. tell me what you think can be done down. what kind of investigation are you looking for? >> thanks for having me on. i think what needs to happen now is we have only gotten surge information in tryingles, because the committee finally decided to see some investigating and put pressure on harlan crow to provided information about how many gifts he and his companies have paid for, and have given to clarence thomas. we need a thorough investigation, not just because the supreme court, including chief justice roberts, have continued to flout congressional oversight, but because the department of justice has different tools, stronger tools to investigate not just harlan crow, justice thomas' other beck

factors, but also to request and get information from justice thomas as well. we are tired of getting this information if fits and starts, in trickles. we need to get to the bottom of just how many gifts he's received from his so-called friend, who he made after becoming supreme court justice, and whether his failure to disclose that information was a crime. >> we know that clarence thomas participated in the koch network donor events, and the koch network is also a party of two things that came before the supreme court. they have quite happy, for instance, that the chevron doctrine was overturned. we've seen the supreme court legalize bribery of the exact time that alito and thomas have been shown to have received. could the justice department subpoena clarence thomas? would the supreme court just

overrule that subpoena, do you think? >> it certainly is possible. again, the department of justice has broad investigative power. i think the reason why they need to subpoena justice thomas is because, if justice thomas -- or if this subpoena goes through the court, if an investigation like this goes through the court, and then justice thomas or other justices sit and hear that case, and provide the same kind of immunity that this court has provided to donald trump, i think it will display for the public just how much this justice and this court thinking that it's above the law. you know, they may lose in court, but you have to take that legal fight to the court, because their behavior -- justice thomas' behavior and

chief justice roberts' continued acquiescence to justice thomas is beyond the pale. >> would you support a criminal investigation of justice thomas and justice alito? >> our complaint has asked for the fbi and department of justice to conduct a criminal investigation. certainly i wouldn't prejudge what they find during the course of that investigation, but if there are -- if there is an intention to hide information that has to be disclosed by law, then certainly there are crimes that should be charged. >> at minimum, clarence thomas, whether or not he's a criminal, is a kept man. i think we can all agree on that. thank you, donald sherman. there's been a lot since the

debate last week. we cannot move on without calling donald trump for his obscene lies on abortion. that and what democrats need to do to fight back, is up next. cr tdoo fight back, is up next

there was so much going on at last week's debate there is almost zero room for policy, with trump deliberately avoiding any questions with any substance, and biden struggling.

this was especially clear with abortion section, after biden said he supported roe v wade. >> he can take the life of the baby in the ninth month, and even after birth, because some states, democrat-run, take it after birth. the former governor of virginia, put the baby down, then we decide what to do with it. he is willing, as we say, rip the baby out of the womb and kill the baby. >> okay. okay. that's obviously a ridiculous claims. there's zero abortions where a baby can possible be killed, after that point it's infanticide. it's legal in every place. the word "abort" means to stop a thing in process. you can't stop a pregnancy once a baby is born, because the woman is no longer pregnant.

so, where does this absurd claim come from? as trump said, it started with ralph northham, made this unfortunate com in 2019. >> if a mother is in labor, i can tell you exactly what would happen. the infant would be delivered, the infant would be kept comfortable, resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother. >> that was entirely unnecessary answer about late-term abortion. once again, this is not late-term abortion. he's tacking about the tragic cases where parents have to decide if they want to take invasive and painful life-saving measures if an infant is born with a low or zero chance of survival. it's literally a parent's worth -- worst nightmare.

now, years later with roe v. wade overturned, republicans are still talking like this. democrats should absolutely be talking about the women who have nearly died since roe was overturned, and both maternal and infant mortality are higher in states where abortion is restricted. the truth is americans support abortion, and the democratic party should be running on that enact, not making excuses. a poll from action i don't/ipsos found that 80% of americans say abortion should not be regulated by the government. while biden did call out trump's lie, his answers on abortion were nowhere near the forceful defense needed. while answering a question, he gave a lot of qualifiers,

depends on the trimesters, and that it was up to the woman, doctor and the state. the entire point of reproductive freedom, choice. trump also claims that overturns roe v. wade means the state got to vote on it. nope. the bans have come from right-wing republican state legislatures and courts. when americans have voted, it's been overwhelmingly protect the right to abortion, or even in red states. the republican parties has done everything it can to prevent the votes from taking place, because they fear the power, and the choices of the american people. trump also claimed that the supreme court had approved the abortion pill, and that he wouldn't block it. nope, actually, the supreme court said that the challenge lacked legal standings, leaving the field wide open for more lawsuits. trump wouldn't have to block the

abortion pill as president. as we've said before, project 2025 directly references the existing comstock act, which would be used to ban the mailing of abortion medication, which currently is the only way americans in a large swath of the country can receive the abortion care they need. there's a lot of uncertainly in the political landscape, but this could clearly be a slam dunk for democrats. throwing women and girls into prison for having an abortion, even a 13-year-old rape survivor. this is that are dysstoppian vision, and this is brought by one of top leaders of the platform leaders of the republican national convention's platform committee, meaning what he thinks will shape the party's official stance on key issues and that is next. it's the easiest call you can make.

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it is an absolute scientific fact that no abortion is ever performed to save the life of the mother. none, zero, zilch. if you been abortion in louisiana, is a doctor who has an abortion breaking the law? yes. should he be punished? yes. i think that seems obvious. what is the punishment? not sure yet. could be criminal. could be a jail sentence. >> he regularly spreads

dangerous lies about abortion on his radio show. he opposes abortion in any situation including the rape of a 12-year-old girl. he is one of the men crafting trumps agenda for a second term. joining me now is president of the national partnership for women and families. let's go through a few fact things. i still recall when you destroyed one of these republicans who were saying silly things about abortion. this person said that never has a woman ever been treated with abortion care to save her life. is that true? >> first of all, always good to see you. thank you for having me. suffice it to say, that is actually just not true. so much of what folks are saying is blatantly a lie and it is intentionally so. this is not a mistake. he is not confused.

this is the way that they want to have a debate because it meets their objectives, but the truth is not his friend. >> if women don't need abortion care to save their lives, why are they are lifting women out of idaho so they won't die? women are be airlifted literally out of the state to save their lives, that was the issue in the supreme court case. what does he think they are being airlifted for? it makes no sense. let's do another one. you were asked to this question and you answered it very well. if i am wrong you are the person to correct me. is it possible to abort a child after it is born, they are born, the baby? >> no, it is not. that is, as you rightly pointed out, it is called infanticide. i know nobody wants that, supports it. it is a ridiculous assertion and it is really designed to

stigmatize people seeking abortion and to have a conversation about abortion in the most stark and troubling way possible. that is the only way they think they can be successful, to say something absolutely ridiculous and not true. >> words have meaning. the word abort has a meaning. you can't abort something that is already done. let's go to the question of whether women will be punished under the trump administration. here is what trump said about that. here he is talking to chris matthews a few years ago. >> do you believe in punishment for an abortion, yes or no, as a principal? >> the answer is there has to be some form of punishment. >> for the woman? >> yeah, there has to be some form. >> if that is the case we are talking about 170,000 patients in 2023 traveled out of state

to seek abortion care. he would put those women in jail. >> well i think we should take him as his word and if we don't believe him we can certainly believe some of the supporters he engages with. who i think very clearly believe that women and anybody who is pregnant ought to be criminalized if they are seeking abortions. i think that is also true for providers and anybody who supports and helps those people. that is why there is so much chaos and fear on the ground. they hear those things and even if it does not materialize, it is enough to make people nervous, make people scared and avoid accessing the care that they desperately need. >> does it surprise you that in states that band abortion, doctors are leaving and abortion rates aren't even going down, women are leaving the state to do it?

>> it's not really surprising. one of the troubling things about the dobbs decision from the beginning was the supreme court majority is really lack of understanding how healthcare works. when folks can't provide care the way that they want to and when patients can't access that care, you are going to create chaos on the ground. doctors are scared by what they can and can't do, so they would rather leave and go to a state that is more friendly or at least that is open to them exercising their medical judgment about the care that is necessary and the same is true for patients. >> absolutely and what you wind up with is fewer doctors for the women who are trying to have children. jocelyn frye, thank you for your expertise, we always appreciate you. that my friends is tonight's "reidout". you can follow me on tiktok and instagram. do follow our show accounts. "all in with chris hayes" starts now.