welcome back to "the weekend." this week the supreme court cleared the way for donald trump to! the powers of the presidency. this is, of course, if he wins another term. he will be unfettered by the laws of every other person in america. we discussed the bombshell ruling that the conservative majority said president's term you forgot -- prosecution from anything, anything that is an official act. justice sotomayor said he will be insulated from kernel

prosecution. orders enable seal team six to assassinate a political rival? immune. organizes the military to to hold onto power? immune. takes a bribe in exchange for a partner? immune. immune. immune. joining us now's former assistant director for counterintelligence at the fbi, frank figliuzzi, the author of the long haul. and msnbc contributor and a sister watergate prosecutor and general counsel of the armor jill wine-banks is also here and is also the host of the podcast for >> frank, as a quick side, i am loving the book. it is really good. >> thank you, michael. jill, i want to start with you. you wrote a little op-ed in which you talked about i help

prosecute watergate and the supreme court just proved richard nixon was right. worse yet, unlike the opinion in u.s. versus nixon, it hobbles the prosecutor by limiting the evidence that can be used. as well as limiting the evidence that can be used at trial. that ruling is a gift to trump's defense and wholly unnecessary. talk to us a little bit about that in the context of the seal team six hypothetical. because just for me, it seems like the court said to the country, the constitution no longer matters when it comes to the actions of a president. the rule of law no longer matters when it comes to the acts of the president. how do you see it? >> i see it exactly the same way that you do. and it is a gift that richard nixon would have loved. he would have served his full term if the supreme court had

been in power. there is so much to be disturbed by in this opinion. but one of the worst part is as i pointed out in the op-ed is that the evidence that you can use at trial or at the hearing to show that you are rebutting the presumptive immunity for even those things in the outer parameters of official acts, that makes it almost impossible to bring any cases. i think it will limit the indictments that he is already under. it will not kill them. there are still plenty of things that no court and that is you will make the decision is a supreme court, even the supreme court cannot find that the fake slate of electors and other parts of the indictment are within even the outer parameters of official duties and there are three categories. the ones that are responsibilities, like ordering seal team six or telling your attorney general to drop a case

or to bring a case. or to do something else to influence the outcome of the election. those should not be immune. but as justice sotomayor said, immune. immune. dennis jackson said it is a five-alarm fire. >> frank, i want you to take a listen to what the president had to say wisconsin on friday talking about donald trump character. >> the american presidency is about character. character that the president holds the job. because with immunity, that the supreme court talked about, it comes down to that. trump has failed on every one of these character tests. everyone. what's worse, the supreme court has ruled that there are virtually no limits on the powers of the presidency. i know it sounds bizarre, but that is how they ruled. a frightening decision. according to the supreme court, a president is now above the

law. >> we will talk about project 2025 later in the show on the way they want to got institutions including the fbi, but if the president is above the law, wouldn't that mean for law enforcement agencies in this country including the fbi? >> yeah, i think we have to look at the intelligence community and federal law enforcement and here is why. samuel alito has responded to the dissenters in this position and saying, come on, you guys are bringing up extreme hypotheticals, is what he called them as if we will have a good man in place you will always do the right thing. despite having the presumption of immunity. guess what. it is not extreme because all we have to do is look back in history to the early and mid- 1970s when the american people began to find out that their fbi and their doj and their cia was spying unlawfully without court authorization on american people and who were those

american people? anybody j. edgar hoover and the administration felt was a threat. martin luther king, illegal wiretaps and buying. even trying to talk king into killing himself. black panthers, it's a threat. what do we do? we can visit chicago police department and coordinate with him to murder a black panther leader. fred hampton. why? because he is a threat. even when the order came down to chill out on the illegal break-ins and illegal wiretaps, do you know what headquarters said? just keep doing what you need to do. it took the church committee named after senator frank church in the senate, a special committee, sitting for over a year to learn the outrageous abuses of j. edgar hoover and the law enforcement and intel communities. this is what happens when the executive branch literally has no rules and they need to follow and i am telling you, we will see it again because trump is that he will seek revenge on

those he deems a threat. >> i want to follow up on this point you are making, frank. i think it is so important. there has been, understandably so, lots of focus on the seal team six example. or the president potentially under this new supreme court ruling ordering the murdering of anyone but i think what you are describing is actually what we are more likely to see. i mean, nbc news has reported that officials worked for trump and made it easier to use the department of justice to attack his foes for the right, the context is there are two forms of justice department officials who spoke on the condition of anonymously. they said the ruling would embolden trump and give him coverage to pressure the justice department for his own political benefit and prosecute enemies i go easy on an ally basing he was executing his official duties as president. frank, we are potentially, we always talk about how the things that happen from supreme

court and taking us and rolling back, right, but we are going to go back to, potentially, these j. edgar hoover days. if he is elected president but i would argue, any future president, joe biden has been very clear he will not abuse his powers. he understands what the supreme court died and disagrees with it but will not abuse his powers but what about every other president? it's not just donald trump. >> this is why when i encounter someone who says, i like the idea of a strong executive and authoritarian. we need that and i asked the question,, are you good with it if it is a democrat? if it is a party you don't like? are you good with it if it is not illegal to target you and your group and your bible study or your militia group? are you okay with the illegal wiretaps, the illegal undercovers? are you okay with all of that?

in the '70s we had something like that. the counter intelligence program that got exposed by the washington post and new york times and it was about literally suppressing vietnam war protests for example. it's going to happen again. guaranteed. it won't be as dramatic as the s.e.a.l. team killing of a political opponent but it will be quiet wiretaps and break-ins that we will never hear about until it is too late. >> jill, frank gave me a flashback to university when we start talking about the church committee. i remember writing in my first paper and it was on the work of that committee. and what they did to rein in the cia and other agencies. it begs the question, given your proximity to the congress during watergate and understanding the congressional element here, the impression i got from what the court said

effectively and this was particularly true with justice clarence thomas, was y'all can't touch this. there is nothing you can do about it. what we rule is what it will be. help us understand, is the court right or is there some mechanism down the road where congress can come back in, you know what, supreme court. you've gotten a little bit too big for your britches. here's a little check on what you are trying to do. >> it's going to be very hard for the congress to do that. because the congress isn't doing anything. i am just being practical in terms of that. but, you know, first of all, the court is completely wrong and also sexist and commenting by saying they were hysterical. they would never have said that if the dissenters were not female. so that is upsetting. but it also, you don't have to

go to s.e.a.l. team six killing anyone. richard nixon tried to use the cia to stop the fbi from investigating the break-in. so, you have a break-in, issues with the cia, paying hush money , which nixon said, well, it would be wrong except it wouldn't be wrong under the supreme court because it would be his official act. that is why it is so dangerous. we don't have to go to extreme examples to see why someone in office could do all the terrible things. it is not what our country is supposed to be and create a dictatorship. when richard nixon said, if the present does it, it is not illegal, the supreme court has now made that true. it is not illegal and a bad person, a person, you know, joe biden said, it is up to the character. when we vote, we have to keep in mind the character of joe

biden and the character of donald trump and that is what will stop anybody from implementing what the supreme court and project 2025 put in front of us. let's not ignore all that. >> i had a quick follow-up year because i think it is important. mystically, jill or frank, the only way this gets on run is by a future supreme court saying that this iteration of the supreme court went too far. and had too much power to a unitary executive and a president. that the only way this gets -- congress can't do anything and the court will not check itself right now , so, our country is stuck with the madness of an imperial court creating an imperial residency. >> i think you are right. i think there is something that congress can do, for example, about the chevron deference document think that was obliterated and having no power in administrative agencies. congress can pass clearer laws

with clearer delegations and make it clear that m initiative agencies can and must make regulations that you cannot leave it to the supreme court to do it. they can't even tell the difference between nitrous oxide and nitrogen oxide. for an opinion completely missing the toxic chemical and pollutants that were involved in the case. i think you are right. we need a new supreme court. there's a lot of reasons to add three members and there are three more circuit cards -- course every circuit should have. that would help rebalance but really, this is like -- it will be years before we undo the damage of this case. the other thing to do is to vote for someone who has a moral character and not abuse or use of the authority of the supreme court to themselves and to the presidency. >> okay. i have to find something to put

in his coffee after that. frank, jill, stay with us. next on "the weekend," donald trump is running away from, guess what, project 2025. we are going to break this one open next. leaffilter's technology keeps debris out of your gutters for good. guaranteed. call 833.leaf.filter today, or visit leaffilter.com.

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trump is officially trying to distance himself from project 2025. the heritage foundation's blueprint for a possible second trump's term. he claimed to know nothing about the groups plan and criticize the plan, you know, he knows nothing about. it comes days after the president of the heritage foundation that this in the wake of the supreme court's immunity claim >> the left has taken over our institutions. the reason they are apoplectic right now and the reason that so many anchors on msnbc, for example, are losing their minds daily is because our side is

winning. i come full circle on this response i want to encourage you that we are in the process of the second american revolution which will remain loveless if the left allows it to be. >> frank figliuzzi and jill wine-banks are back with us. i don't know her. >> i never met her before. also, was he talking about us when he said msnbc anchors? what's he talking about us? i don't know. he is welcome back anytime to explain this debacle. i want to play the b.e.t. awards after i play it you will understand why. >> time for us to play chess, checkers. it's about making decisions that will affect the as human beings. look it up. they are attacking our most vulnerable citizens. the project 2025 plan is not a game.

look it up. >> she hosted the b.e.t. awards this year and, frank, i was struck by this moment because i don't believe it was scripted in there. but, project 2025 is going beyond the political group chats if you will. so much so that donald trump has moved to disavow it. even though the heritage foundation says he regularly speaks with donald trump about it and it's all about infusing trumpism. talk about, first of all, i see -- i think donald trump has been lying. he is not telling the truth about what he does and does not know. if this plan, it is not hyperbole. right? people should take it seriously because it can be implemented. there's all this talk that, oh, people are being hysterical. but this plan could be

implemented if an administration wanted to do so. >> i am so glad that project 2025 is getting her popular attention because it needs to. it is a plan against america. and everything we know about the checks and balances and our government. i think trump has taken a page with project 2025 and putin's playbook which is putin attacked our -- and try to interfere with our 2016 presidential election. when the special counsel caught him red-handed, these are your guys with the social media propaganda in we caught them and have indicted them. the use of private citizens and oligarchs to do the propaganda within our social media allow putin at arms like this is say, i don't know. they are private citizens. so here we go again. we have the heritage foundation saying, trump is saying i don't know anything about this, and

just like i don't know who the proud boys are. what do you want me to say about them? essentially, it will dismantle the checks and balances. what would it look like in my old agency, the fbi, the doj. instead of, yes we know the present to appoint a new fbi director if he wants to. but guarantee, trump will find a new one who is loyal to him and find a new attorney general was loyal to him but project 2025 goes further than that. it says even down the ranks now they will remove the civil service protections and you can now have residential appointees right down the floors of headquarters of the fbi headquarters and cia headquarters meaning that the people who would rise up and report to ig, say something there is wrong, they will be gone. so, if you have prosecutors brought the country loyal to trump and to choose cases to open and close and it fbi director and several for -- you

replace the general counsel at the fbi which i am sure he will do. the one person who can say, we are not doing this is now owned by trump and you have carte blanche to spy an arrest anybody that the president wants to. >> let that sit there for a second. because that is the new reality, jill, being shaped by the incoming administration as a claim and as they see it. you have trump saying, i don't know anything about this. i have no idea. i've never heard of it. yet, we know that his own personnel from his prior administration are serving in leadership roles in this and other members of his team are >> leadership roles here. how should we certainly and

light of what frank just said, how should the broader community really be looking at this because i think, you know, we played coming in what frank is saying and this is really what this race is boiling down to. we can sit and fixate on how old joe biden's, and worry about that, while at the same time, you have trump and heritage laying the foundation for a dismantling of our rights and the protections under the constitution and fundamentally reshaping how our government -- we were just talking about what happened with the cia and the fbi in the 1970s and how offensive that was to america. project 2025 what they want to do is make that an everyday occurrence government. >> that is true and i think it is up to the media and all of us to start communicating everything that is in project 2025 because frank is right.

you abolish the civil service and make sure everyone who works at the department of justice or any other agency was a loyalist to donald trump. at that is ridiculous that he says he doesn't know about it. he clearly does. all you have to do is read who the authors are. the author of the department of defense is his secretary of defense on january 6th chris miller. i had the opportunity to interview as part of a podcast. all you can say is, how could he have been the secretary of defense? peter navarro is in jail and he wrote the part on trade. i testified before the weaponization committee next to jean hamilton who is from the heritage or the america first foundation who wrote the chapter on the department of justice. his proposals are completely the destruction of democracy and it gives the president the total power to tell who can be

prosecuted and who cannot. something that has long been the norm that you cannot do. we would be in serious, serious trouble. there can be no weaponization committee anymore because it is completely legal to weaponizing. joe biden, how can you investigate him for weaponizing the department of justice? there is nothing illegal about it because of the supreme court. then, you wouldn't even need the supreme court because roger 2025 says all of these things are what should be the government. that is something that people knew what definitely drive their vote and i think it is up to us to start summarizing each of the many chapters to let people know how bad it is. >> jill, to your point, i think we should put up on the screen some of the former officials linked to project 2025. you have paul dance, the 2025

director and chief of staff under trumpeter rick dearborn, distinguishing visiting fellow and deputy chief of staff for trump. -- authored the omb chapter. look at the people on the screen. a former trump doj official and current vice president of america first legal which is the stephen miller group that has been challenging all the things that theadministration is doing. ben carson? how are you going to tell me that donald trump don't know nothing about project 2025 when he went out on the campaign trail with and carson? who are they fooling? who? >> they are not fooling anyone. it is just the thing that donald trump says and his followers believe. they believe anything he says even though none of us does. it is one of those things where you cannot have a discussion

with a trump or because they do not accept reality. they don't accept facts. and in the old days, we used to have discussions about the meaning of facts and the policies that should come from them. we didn't debate them. we all agreed on them. that is one of the more serious problems we have in america right now. that facts are being ignored. >> all right. , jill wine-banks, thank you for joining after ahead, the latest reaction to president biden's prime-time interview. that is next on "the weekend." than tylenol rapid release gels because advil targets pain at the source of inflammation. so for faster pain relief, advil the pain away. announcer what if you could whiten your teeth by simply brushing your teeth? now you can with smileactives,

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the only thing you can do now to samantha for all time and prevent utter catastrophe is to step down and let someone else do this. >> that was illinois congressman mike quigley on msnbc last night calling for president biden to drop out of the presidential race and breaking just moments ago, minnesota congresswoman angie craig became the fifth one to join the list and, quote, president biden is a good man and i appreciate his lifetime of service, but i believe he should step aside for the next generation of leadership. the stakes are too high. our congressional correspondent tequila -- julie tsirkin joins us now. >> as we came on the air, michael noted that angie craig has an interesting -- she's the fifth house democrat , the first front liner, meaning she is in a vulnerable district.

and has been targeted. there are republicans that believe minnesota's second congressional district is a gettable win for them. if angie craig thinking about her politics within the district? and whether she thinks joe biden should step down or not more about angling to defend her seat so she can continue to be successful in november? >> that is a big concern. you have to imagine that democrats have a chance to flip control of the house in november because of all the chaos we have seen from republicans. this is really a moment where frontline democrats are vulnerable and are in full panic mode after the debate. i've been talking to a lot of them privately who did not want to go on the record. they were thinking about circulating a letter to call on the president to step aside. many, however, craig included,

were looking forward to the interview that biden had last night and looking forward to seeing him talking to the american people and see if he has what it takes to be able to beat former president donald trump. i had so many private conversations and frontline democrats, many of them are nervous about going on the record so it is the second that craig took this step. many of them feel that the interview did not do biden any favors. it's important to point out that they respect this man and they just don't want to see his legacy go down the drain and then go down the drain with him in november. >> i can appreciate that. and then ms. of congress are sheepish and shy but senators tend not to be. you have senator fetterman who i think made the point on friday. asked if he was so confident biden could be trumpy said, yes, absolutely. he's the one person who had beaten trump before.

basically, lined up or finish it by saying, everybody just needs to grow a pair. is that a sentiment that other democrats are trying to push as well? to the weaker ones? you just need to hold the line here? do you hear any of that? >> absolutely. democrats are not speaking with one joyce -- one voice which makes us challenging. the chair of the congressional hispanic caucus have been defensive of biden and after we spoke and again after the interview yesterday saying, she understands people have concerns but at the end of the day they believe president biden is the one for this job and the one who is be trumpy for and can't beat him again despite what we saw on the dissipate stage or during the interview yesterday. an overwhelming majority of democrats are disgruntled by his performance over this last week and are nervous and i think you will see more of them

come out calling him to step aside. >> all right. thank you. up next, the campaign communications director michael tyler joins us. you are watching "the weekend." r-o-l-a-i-d-s rolaids' dual-active formula begins to neutralize acid on contact. r-o-l-a-i-d-s spells relief.

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good to see you. >> good morning, michael. the campaign wants to turn the page. you have five members of the house democratic caucus including a front liner saying the president should step out of this race. you have the governors saying that the president needs to carefully evaluate whether or not he stays in the race. how much more difficult does it make to have members of their own party second-guessing the president as you attempt of the campaign to turn the page? >> again, thank you for having me. good morning. i think the president was pretty clear yesterday in madison. he is running and believes he is the best person to take on donald trump and lead this nation forward for another four years. i understand there are some concerns coming off the debate and the president himself understands that and that is

why he spent time talking with governors and members of the help making sure they understand that he understands they are concerned that we are focused now on moving forward with the campaign and defeating donald trump. i think democratic voters themselves also understand that. after the debate we raise $38 million, one of our most successful stresses of the campaign so far. people going to joe biden.com and shipping them because they understand that when you get knocked down you get back up and keep fighting and that is what the president has done since the debate. going to north carolina, going to wisconsin, going to pennsylvania tomorrow to continue to wage his campaign against donald trump. lastly, if you look at the polling, which are has been a lot of consternation over, there has been a consistent trend, that, a, there's not been a shift and this morning the new bloomberg poll shows president biden meeting in michigan by five points. president biden leading in

pennsylvania by three points. a one point race in georgia. two point overall in the swing states. we understand this will be a close, competitive presidential election but president biden is the best person to lead us forward. that is the reason democratic voters nominated him in the first place and why he beat donald trump in 2020 and what he will do it again in 2024. >> michael, lots of conversation coming out of the interview with george stephanopoulos yesterday. we want to get your reaction to respond to some of the criticism that is coming out. the control room will let me know if we have a sound, but george stephanopoulos asked the president if he stays in and trump is elected and everything you worry about comes to pass, how we feel in january? we do have the sound so i will play it for you and get your reaction on the other side. >> mr. present, i've never seen a president with 33% approval elected.

>> i don't think that is my approval rating >> if you stay in and trump is elected and everything you are warning about comes to pass, how we feel in january? >> i would feel that as long as i gave it a mall and did a good job as i know i can do, that is what this is about. >> michael tyler, how do you respond to the criticism that he made it about himself and it is not about him giving it is all it should be about beating donald trump that ate my criticism but enough people are saying it. we have to ask you to respond. >> absolutely. the president is making clear that nobody will fight harder to defeat donald trump and joe biden. that is why he beat him in 2020. he understands the stakes of this election. you were talking about it earlier. 20 -- project 2025 making it clear that if we have a second trump term it will be more extreme and dangerous given the

fact that he will gut checks and balances and consolidate power in the oval office and ban abortion with or without congress. the president understands that and that is why he is getting back up and fighting because no one will fight harder to defeat donald trump. he is the one person that has demonstrated the ability to be donald trump given everybody else was tried and we are confident if we do the work that we are doing right now in the month of july, communicating the stakes of election to the voter, running advertisement and knocking out -- no president, no candidate will work harder and no campaign will work harder to defeat donald trump. >> michael, it's really interesting to me to be quite honest, you know, people complaining that the president gave an answer and made it about himself. who is being attacked here? he is the one who is being attacked by his own people. so, i've got to go back to the

quote that senator fetterman gave on friday. i can't think of a single situation were panicking or freaking out has made the situation better or for god sakes, democrats get a spine and grow a pair. one or the other. at some point, your team has got to figure out how to chill out, and reconnect them refocus the campaign. you have given us numbers that are showing, despite everything we've seen happen since thursday, joe biden is holding his own and gaining ground and in some cases leading in battleground states. there are only five or six states that matter and everyone knows it. so, how do you handle this, the rest of this? how do you stop the bleeding by those members of your party with their little knives and stilettos coming at you, you know, a death by 1000 cuts and to the point that you cannot run a campaign because of the

ignorance is happening right now. people don't understand the threat in front of them. do you shake up your team? what is it going to take to get these people to the hell up and win this election to stop project 2025 and stop the take- over of our country by the supreme court and an imperial presidency. i get it as a republican in this fight to save the country from the stupid, and your whole team is acting like, oh my god, did you hear what he just said? making it all about himself. what the hell? how do you guys get through this? because the rest of us are having a hard time watching it, quite honestly. >> yeah. i making sure people understand this is about the voters. the president is talking about the fundamental stakes for the voters and that is why he will fight so hard. that is why the campaign is doing what it is doing right now. what did he do? he went to a watch party and rally grassroots support --

that is why he got on the plane, flew to north carolina, nearly landed and spoke to the direct -- that is why he got up the next morning, gave a speech, talk directly to the voters and that is why he spoke to the stakes of the election on monday following the supreme court's decision on the immunity case and why he talked about extreme heat and why wednesday he got or he sat down and did two radio interviews and talk to black voters in cities like milwaukee and philadelphia and why he got back up on the stump yesterday and went to madison, wisconsin. that is why we are going to philly in harrisburg. the selection is fundamentally about the voters. will age continue to be a topic of conversation? it will be joe biden is 81-year- old and he's going to be donald trump again.

he's 81 and will restore roe v. wade. he's 81 and will make leaders pay their fair share in taxes. he is 81 and will ban assault weapons and high-capacity magazines in the second term. he's 81 years old and will bring people together to find solutions for the american people on the other side, donald trump who is 78 years old poses a fundamental threat to our democracy and economy and way of life. we will win this election by focusing on the choice and mistake of this election. that is what we will do moving forward. >> michael tyler with a forceful defense of president biden. thank you so much for your time. he is 81, i think i'm going to see that on the internet. appreciate your time, michael. next, we are going to get into the voters and talk about but myself and melissa might learn talking to seven blackman voters in pennsylvania immediately after that first debate. this is a -- this is "the

weekend."

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>> anybody here think joe biden after seeing the first debate that he should drop out of the race? >> i hope that both candidates would drop out. both. i didn't like either one of them. i didn't think they represented the united states well. >> same here. absolutely. i wish they would both drop out. i am worried about biden's ability to run a country. i don't know if he will be able to do it if you select for the next four years >> trump is only a few more years younger than biden? do you fit worry about him? >> that man is unhinged. >> i love this focus group. >> shout out to melissa mary. i want to play one other piece of sound. there was a range of sentiments there. this is the sound from vanessa who talks about the struggles to get another person on the ballot. >> the practicality of having

who the next person would be and getting them on the ballot and raising the money and getting access to the money that has been raised feels impracticable to change course. i think at this point strategically to rally around our guy who is elected through the process and he's got the best shot at beating the alternative. >> a lot of talk about what the voters are saying. michael, this is what a range of sentiments from these black women in pennsylvania who will decide this election. >> i thought that this was a very, very well placed conversation. right in the hard of what we see playing out and what i was trying to convey with michael at the end there. it just is real right now for a lot of people. joe biden ran the country at age 77, 78, 79 and 80.

now here in this 81st year everyone is concerned about his ability to run the country. i think vanessa hit it just right. it is impractical to change course because objectively, there is no reason to. when you look at what he has already done. i thought your raising up this conversation particularly among black women was important. since a lot of people seem to think, you know, others are controlling the outcome of this race. >> i love sitting down with voters. it is my favorite part of every election cycle. whether something you heard that surprised you? >> well, yes. melissa and i are talking about ways to bring the rest of this conversation but the range of sentiments. no one in that room was a professional or political professional if you will. he was were women and marketing, finance and shelley joined us was a teacher. sheila was a veteran. there were so many diversity of

sentiments and one of the young women in the group said, she didn't know who she was voting for but she knew it wasn't donald trump. so, okay. stay tuned. there is work to do. >> that's it for us and "the weekend." be sure to join us tomorrow morning. we have a pack show. we will be joined by california senator alex padilla and we will have the latest on the biden/harris campaign and more. i start tomorrow morning at 8:00 eastern. follow us on social media @theweekendmsnbc and in the meantime, our sd million starts after a short break. don't go anywhere. anywhere.

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