comfortable with trump as an individual president. remember, his first trip ever as president uniquely was to the gulf and israel. the europeans are particularly and singularly concerned about a trump administration, because trump does not support a strong eu. in fact, he supported brexit and kept axing the french president, when are you going to leave the eu? if you combine that with trump's willingness to cut a deal on russia, ukraine, whatever that means, and putin coming out the last couple of hours thing, i support that, that sounds good to me. almost every european leader is panic over what that could mean in just a few months, and absolutely, they are coming to washington with that center of mind. guys, out of time. literally, two of the smartest people i know and friends of mine and friends to the show. an award-winning founder, ceo and chief of the tail, and founder of the ratio group and author of "the power of crisis, how three credit threats and

our response will change the world." the supreme court's immunity decision is affecting donald trump's various cases. how it could affect aspects of 2025 and reshape america in a far right direction. i will call to order the week's meeting on the "velshi" banned book club. tim o'brien, "the things they carried." it is a fictional account of his time in the vietnam war. another hour of "velshi" begins now. now. good morning it is saturday, july the sixth. following a challenging week with some democrats with his ability to be donald trump. ballot boxes less than four months away. the state of the election could

not be any higher. a jaw-dropping opinion this week that radically reshape the powers of the presidency and grants the president absolute immunity from criminal prosecution. the prospects of that are chilling. especially someone as undisciplined as donald trump. this is putting the future of all of his prosecutions in jeopardy. within hours of issuing their opinion, he moved to overturn his conviction in manhattan. he succeeded in postponing his sentencing hearing until mid- september. yesterday, his attorneys asked to pause his proceedings and consider how the immunity decision might affect this prosecution. the majority of the justices came to the conclusion that president have immunity or the presumption of immunity for official acts. that is something we will have to dig into. they left a lot of room for

interpretation of what can be considered an official act. they rejected his request to throw out his interference case. they did instruct the judge to do the complicated work of figuring out what can and cannot be prosecutable. one example that is off-limits in that case are his discussions with the acting attorney general. even if that included bogus investigations into election fraud. john roberts reasoned that he cannot be prosecuted for this because the president has exclusive authority over the investigative and prosecutorial functions of the justice department and its officials. during his first term in office, he demonstrated

complete disregard for many of the norms of the office that he occupied. including the process of letting them operate independently. the murkiness on this point in particular is exactly the kind of thing that will embolden him to push the limits of the law if he returns to power. it grants him permission to abuse the investigative powers to go against his enemies. something he has promised since the beginning of his presidential campaign. some former justice department officials are already sounding the alarm. one official told nbc news that the ruling sets him up to do the things he has said, to investigate people and send them to jail. the sweeping decision can help conservatives in advancing this project 2025. a 900 page manifesto.

the right wing manifesto that seeks to transform the balance of power within the government. the court's decision is a full endorsement of the executive theory. the theory that the president has brought control over the executive branch including agencies like the doj. that is a legal concept that is central to the 2025 playbook which is built upon the notion that the president should have more direct control over large portions of the federal government. project 2025 wants to bypass the bureaucratic pipeline so that the president and his administration can implement the most extreme policies without expert input. with the latest decision, the supreme court help them move another giant step closer to achieving that goal.

joining me is the author of 100 books including the constitution of law. and to end the presidency. thank you for being here. i conflated a few things. there were a few decisions that have influence along this. the first one was monday morning. you said you will come on the show and tell us about ways we can push back against this unprecedented ruling. i open the door to you. >> thanks for having me on again. yes, it is important to not rollover and play dead in the face of this astonishing ruling. the ruling itself depends on several things. one of the things that it depends on, the union of the presidency with the prosecutorial arm of the government. in over 40 states, and many

nations, that mistake is not made. the arm is not under the thumb of the chief executive of the nation. one of the things we can do, it is uphill to amend the constitution. begin considering creating an institutionalized independence. i saw an article in the new york times proposing that. the second thing we can do, is address the absurd notion that anyone in this country is above the law. i propose that in addition to creating independence for the prosecutorial arm, that we adopt the amendment that a majority of the country would immediately favor. that is the language that would need to be tweaked. nothing in this constitution

shall be construed to confirm immunity on any individual from the operations of the criminal law by virtue of an office that the individual previously held. a third thing we can do is begin treating the supreme court itself as one of the issues in this election. i am not in favor of the impeachment resolutions that are going to be introduced. against justices, clarence thomas and i think that can boomerang. i'm not sure that they have committed impeachable offenses. i am in favor of taking a close look at supreme court reform. i was a member of his commission a couple of years ago. we studied the court for over a

year and compared it to the apex courts of other countries. the only apex court that is the highest court in the land. anywhere, with anything like this kind of power that has less than 15 members. the court needs to be enlarged and part of project 25 commits the new president if it happens to be trump. replacing the elderly right- wing justices probably replacing the justices. with decades younger far right justices. beyond that, we need to look at term limits and most important, we need to have an enforceable code of ethics. not one that is up to the court

itself to enforce. if there was an inspector general to enforce that code, then they surely would not have voted in two of the major cases this year. one that would've taken him off the ballot. now the one that makes him virtually a king. it is important to realize that the court now has facilitated project 2025 as the aspiration to construct the administrative state. this court, basically, without getting technical, is the alphabet soup of administrative agencies. all of the new deal agencies are now subject to open-ended

review by the federal courts. we now have an imperial judiciary walking arm in arm with the imperial executive. we need to take these things not as given just because the highest court of the land has said so. as inconsistent with aspirations to democracy and to a functioning government. >> all those practical things that you talk about, with the inspector general, what is the most doable in the current political climate that we have? >> the inspector general enforcing a code of ethics is the most doable. we cannot limit to the easiest things. we will never get to the top of the mountain unless we start the journey.

throughout our history, we have treated the constitution, sometimes, too much as a sacred on amendable document. we have to remember that we have in the past amended it to solve serious problems. the amendment process, unlike the legislative process, bypasses the presidency. there is no role for the president in amending the constitution. we need to put those amendments on the table. >> we appreciate the thought that you put into this and that you are not like so many people throwing up their hands and saying, despite how perverse this decision seems to be that there is no road forward. he is the author of the books american constitution of law and to end the presidency. among many others. coming up, the united states has new hope for a cease-fire hostage deal which can help quell escalating tensions but

not everyone involved in negotiations is equally optimistic. the author of the things they carried joints for the bell she banned book club. donald trump openly plots against his enemies and defends some of the indefensible positions. suddenly, he is trying to diss in value this, project 2025, the blueprint to institutionalize trumpism in a second term. i have questions.

♪♪ imagine a future where plastic is not wasted... but instead remade over and over... into the things that keep our food fresher, our families safer, and our planet cleaner. to help us get there, america's plastic makers are investing billions of dollars to create innovative products and new recycling technologies for sustainable change. because when you push for smarter solutions, big things can happen. want to save on some of the biggest names in streaming on because when you push for smarter solutions, the network made for streaming? x marks the spot. now you can add the new xfinity streamsaver™ that includes netflix, peacock, and apple tv+. that's xfinity streamsaver™ for just $15 a month. all your favorites. all in one place. only from xfinity. for more watching and less spending... x marks the spot. do it all on the network made for streaming,

and bring on the good stuff. - [narrator] life with ear ringing sounded like a constant train whistle i couldn't escape. then i started taking lipo flavonoid. with 60 years of clinical experience, it's the number one doctor recommended brand for ear ringing. and now i'm finally free. take back control with lipo flavonoid. those of us that see donald trump as a threat to democracy agree he must be defeated in november. he lost promising to use the force of law to punish his

enemies. project 2025 that lays out a detailed plan for seizing and consolidating power. the danger is clear and present. we seem to have lost sight of all of this in the last nine days. since president joe biden's performance in the presidential debate, there has been debate about his competency to run along with justified anger towards the team that surrounds him. without dismissing the legitimacy of those concerns, this election remains about one thing and one thing only. the threat of losing our democracy. that is where our efforts of convincing one another need to be spent. you can list all of biden's flaws and you would be left with the same conclusion. only one of the two main candidates poses an existential threat to democracy. the debate performance was a collective shock to the system. mounting frustrations in recent

years that reached a climax that evening. since witnessing the mob of extremist overtake the nations capital, it it has shaken the nations -- to its core. book bans, led by extremist judges and forces to roll back civil rights. before we can process one crisis, we are hit with another. we believe that democracy was infallible. these threats can never flourish here. the actions of extremist in recent years has shattered that allusion. leading us to this moment. the current rage and confusion and bickering are all different and valid manifestations of the collective anguish. we grieve that our democracy has reached this precarious

point teetering on the edge of uncertainty. now, more than ever, we must hold our ground. it is crucial that we maintain perspective. whatever happens with biden, if he steps aside, the democratic nominee, any democratic nominee would be a better option than the alternative which is the downfall of american democracy. none of this dismisses the legitimacy of concerns about biden. this does not absolve the media of their failures. understanding how we reach this point demands a reckoning that must occur, american politics right now is a building on fire and discussing if the building had enough sprinklers and is not the discussion for right now. there will be ample opportunity for reflection if democracy prevails. this week we celebrated 248 years of independence from the shackles of a tyrannical king.

before the 50th anniversary of american independence in 1826, thomas jefferson would write his last public letter. he referred to himself as one of the surviving signers of a declaration pregnant with our own and the fate of the world. he continued, it's good to know that our fellow citizens after half a century of it smearing thing prosperity they continue to approve the choice we made. let this return the recollections of these rights and the undiminished devotion to them. this is a paradox word mentioning right now. thomas jefferson was a slave owner. the nation's founding document, which he authored, did not move to abolish slavery. he penned those words, those

rights have been extended to black people and other minorities and women with each generation building upon the last. since declaring independence, the american experiment has been tested over and over again. we have sacrificed many lives to safeguard liberal values both at home and abroad. during world war ii, where america stood, it was clear and stood to exterminate totalitarianism. consider how differently that war may have played out if we had a demagogic steering america off the cliff. today, our great american experiment is at risk avenue collapse. rid yourself of the notion that this is simply a race between two parties. this is a fight to preserve our hard-fought freedoms. we have two candidates. one stands for democracy, one

doesn't. that is the beginning and the end of the realization that voters need to have. biden's condition if it is tiredness or something else is not irrelevant and it is almost irrelevant. 74 million people voted for donald trump in the last election. the failure is that after four years of donald trump, more eligible voters did not vote than those that voted for either candidate. even after four years of his disastrous policies and in the middle of the covid crisis that donald trump made worse than needed to be. this moment, and i am not sure who should be at the top of the ballot. this moment transcends joe biden or any of our feelings about him. our effort now is nothing less than the preservation of democracy. two centuries after the founding fathers rejected tyranny, we find ourselves

summoned to a similar call to uphold the principles of democracy. our job as citizens is to choose democracy. whomever is carrying that flag into the next election. electio (woman) no, no, no, no, no! (vo) you break it. we take it. trade in any phone, in any condition and get a new iphone 15 with tons of storage, on us. only on verizon.

but st. jude has gotten us through it. st. jude is hope for every child diagnosed with cancer because the research is being shared all over the world.

the biden administration says that there is a breakthrough in the hostage deal in the israel gaza war. hamas has made a significant adjustment in their set of commands. which pass the security council several days later. israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu discussed the implementation of the agreement. there is still work to do in the deal is not done until everything is done. yesterday high-ranking u.s.

officials were covering more deliberations with egyptian officials that work as mediators for hamas. gaps remain between the sides and the israeli official says that the talks were the beginning of a process and not a breakthrough. talks will continue next week after reporting that military leadership want a deal. even if it means that hamas will remain in power. despite the fact that the central demand has been the complete destruction of hamas. top generals believe that a deal is the best way to rescue remaining hostages and will calm the situation in lebanon. they have been engaged in an escalating exchange of fire since october which continued this morning. on thursday, firing the biggest barrage yet.

that came in retaliation for an israeli strike. joining me now is a senior diplomatic correspondent for the huffington post. thank you for being with us. i cannot keep track of this. it is a breakthrough, the beginning of a process. biden announced this thing in may. netanyahu shot it down. what is your sense from your reporting, are we closer to a deal or not? >> sure, thank you for having me. i have been on the ground where these negotiations have been picking up. there is contact with all sides. these are extremely delicate. it takes so much trust building which is extremely hard for a number of reasons. there is a lot of doubt that

the u.s. will keep the israelis on the track to a cease-fire. the military has known this for a while. netanyahu's government has said, we do not see that as in our interest. the government could actually collapse on that deal. there is the question of hamas's future. this is a humanitarian situation. anything could take us over the edge. right now, we are in a precipice where one strike from israel into gaza could kill a huge number of civilians and shatter this trust. >> last night president biden when talking about his foreign policy achievements, started by saying who negotiated a peace deal? he said that he hopes he will come to fruition. it sounds like if he was

telling the truth or forgot something, he seems invested in trying to get a deal. it sounds like since may they have been trying to get all the parties to the table. you point out something really important, the leadership of hamas and israel particularly netanyahu are dis-incentivize from having a deal because it could mean the end of both of them. >> right. what is important to remember is the leverage we have is not over hamas. it is over israel. they say, we will not give you weapons unless you come. the biden administration has not wanted to do that yet. now his interest in a cease- fire will change. what we do know is that he is coming to congress in just a couple of weeks. and has no desire to be seen

between the administration and the israelis. that is a risky proposition. this is a moment to remind people that in these brittle negotiations, who you have in the room helps so much. if you have experts that are not seen as incapable or corrupt, that makes a massive difference. the one trump card that the u.s. does have, is that the officials do have a lot of trust still. a trump presidency dealing with this situation, it is unpredictable. >> that is exactly right. thank you so much. coming up on call to order for the velshi band book club. tim o'brien comes to discuss his book, the things they

carried. exploring friendship, the futility of war, and the motivating effects of morality. ♪ punch buggy red. ♪ even say why ♪ ♪ i am, i said ♪ ♪ ♪ lawmakers are trying to shut down planned parenthood. the health care of more than 2 million people is at stake. our right to basic reproductive health care is being stolen from us. planned parenthood believes everyone deserves health care. it's a human right. future generations are beginning to lose the rights we fought for. the rights for ourselves, our kids, and our grandkids. gone. just like that.

i can't believe this is the world we live in, where we're losing the freedom to control our own bodies. last year, politicians in 47 states introduced bills that would block people from getting the sexual and reproductive care they need. where does it end? planned parenthood fights for you every day. but we need your support now more than ever. visit this website, call, or scan the code on your screen, with your $19 monthly gift. help us win the fight for the constitutional right to control our own bodies. truly if planned parenthood had not stepped in, i would not be here today. they saved my life. your support is urgent. our rights and the rights of future generations are at risk. and lives are at risk. and that's why we have to keep fighting. in every state, everywhere. donate $19 a month, or whatever you can afford. and you'll help us fight against laws that block care, and take away our rights.

we fight to make sure everyone and anyone can get the care they need. but we need your help. and there's never been a more urgent time to join. so go online, call, or scan this code now. sign up with your monthly gift today, and we'll send you this “care. no matter what” t-shirt. it is your right to have safe health care. that's it. we won't give up, and we won't back down. we need you now more than ever. go online, call, or scan right now.

if you are a person that cares about democracy in this fourth of july felt a little off. you are not going crazy. this day, meant to celebrate america's independence was coupled with the supreme court granting immunity for crimes. the three judges lamented that the ruling gives the president the power of a king. couple that with a proposed plan by his allies to expand presidential powers even more, project 2025 is a 900 page blueprint. for the next trump presidency. the brainchild of the heritage foundation that promises to

defeat the anti-american left. a restructuring of the department of justice. dismantling the department of education and banning abortion medication. the president of the heritage foundation said that a second american revolution is on the way. it sounds pretty similar to donald trump's own rhetoric. turns out that the comments about a second american revolution may have crossed the line. for the man who incited the insurrection at the u.s. capitol. strangely, yesterday, from distanced himself from project 2025. writing on through social, i know nothing about project 2025, i've no idea who is behind it. i disagree with some of the things they are saying and some of the things they are saying are absolutely ridiculous and abysmal. anything they do, i wish them

luck, but i have nothing to do with them.". so, he does not know anything about it, he disagrees with it. interesting. he claims that he has no idea who is behind it. many involved in the project work with him in the white house and will fill out his administration. he says he does not know who is behind it. kevin roberts, the president of the heritage foundation knows who you are, mr. trump. >> the work of the heritage foundation is to institute trumpism. conservatism that recognizes that by every objective measure, the united states is weaker than it was in 1984. president trump will make decisions about policy. project 2025 will transcend the next four years, the next 10 years. >> trump knows nothing about

project 2025. he has nothing to do with it. they both spoke at the christian media convention where he said that trump deserves all of the credit to carry out the far right's plan. >> project 2025 was developed with a comprehensive policy agenda and more importantly, recruiting people. 20,000 people to go into the next administration to take back this country for you and for your audiences. we want no credit. we want the american people, if president trump is elected again, him and his administration to take credit for that. >> we want no credit for project 2025. trump, you take all the credit. trump, i don't know who this is. at this latest claim to the long lies of trump.

trump lies. he knows what project 2025 is. he knows what it stands for. he is claiming otherwise, it is his cognitive decline we should all be talking about. about. m, i recommend prevagen. number one, because it's effective. does not require a prescription. and i've been taking it quite a while myself and i know it works. and i love it when the customers come back in and tell me, "david, that really works so good for me." makes my day. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. power outages can be unpredictable, inconvenient, and disruptive to your life, posing a real threat to your family's comfort and safety. when the power goes out, you have no lights, no refrigeration, no heating or air conditioning. the winds are not letting up at all here. we're going to see some power outages. number one thing to prepare for is extended power outages. are you prepared? you can be with a generac home standby generator. when a power outage occurs,

your generac home standby generator automatically powers up, using your home's existing natural gas or propane, so your life goes on without disruption. you and your family are comfortable, safe, and secure. stay tuned, to get over a $500 value free on the most popular home standby generator in the world. with the generac, we don't have to worry about whether we lose power or not. if the utility company does not come through, our generac does. having a generac takes a lot of the anxiety out of, there's going to be a storm. after the hurricane happened, we just want to be prepared for anything. generac generators are designed, engineered and built in the usa. 8 out of 10 home generators are generac, and have thousands of satisfied customers. how many times have you heard people say, i never want to go through that again? well, the next time you go through it, don't make it so hard on yourself. have a generac home standby generator.

call or go online now to request your free quote with one of generac's nationwide dealers. special financing and low monthly payment options are available, and if you call now, you will also receive a free 5 year warranty valued at over $500. the call is free, the quote is free, and there's no obligation to buy. call or go online now, so the next time there's a power outage, your home powers up. power your life with generac. call or go online to request your free quote today.

taking turns, they carried the scrambler radio that weighed 30 pounds with its battery and they shared the weight of memory. they took up what others could

no longer bear. often, they carried each other, the wounded are weak. they carried infections. they carried chas schatz, basketballs, vietnamese english dictionaries, insignia of rain, bronze stars and purple hearts, they carry diseases among them, malaria and dysentery. they carried lies and ringworm and leeches and patty algae and various rots and molds. they carried the land itself, vietnam, the place, the soil, a powdery orange red dust that covered their boots and fatigues and their faces. and so begins tim o'brien's classic in every sense of the phrase. a staple in the american public education system and today's velshi band book club feature. published in 1990, a fictionalized account of his real experience as a young soldier in the u.s. army 23rd

infantry division during the vietnam war. at the center of the book are the men of the alpha company. a man known only as -- and o'brien himself. moving back and forth through time and switching between first and third person storytelling, comprised of a series of interconnected short stories. the things they carried explores the futility of war. the power of friendship and the motivating effect of death, shame, morality, isolation, and survival. from the very first chapter, he uses repetition, reflection and frank language to illustrate how inescapable and all- encompassing trauma is. the result is suffocating and

hugely effective. o'brien shows us that when you witness death, that moment replays in your mind again and again and again. the reader only has to endure the way that his face shined in the sun when he stepped on a land mine. for o'brien, that story never ends. for readership that is unfamiliar with the vietnam war, the politics behind and the state of the country in 1969, the things they carried is a revelation. the book is told through flashbacks and memories. in one particularly stirring story, we see him contemplating making a run for the canadian border after receiving his draft notice. the most vivid moments in the book take place in vietnam. in the pages of the things they carried, it is hallucinatory and concrete. surreal and corporeal. he captures what the psyche and

the spirit must do to protect us during the wars of war. the gut wrenching moments of friendship and sacrifice and beauty. from iowa to new jersey, to texas, it has become a fixture in high school english classes. across all those states, it has been challenged for band and removed from shelves for the most common complaint is that it is vulgar and profane. o'brien has an answer in the pages of the book. you can tell a true war story if it embarrasses. if you do not care for obscenity, you do not care for the truth. watch how you vote. send guys to war, they come back talking dirty. what really is at the core of removing a book from an american author from an american library. that is a merit to yourself and a window to other worlds, commentary about what the vietnam war was, what every war is, that is a place that people

do not want to take a glimpse of it all. after the break i am joined by tim o'brien himself. the author of today's velshi band book club feature. the things they carried. carrie. (man) switching all the time... it wasn't easy. (lady) 35. (store customer) you're gonna be here forever. (man) i know. (employee) here is your wireless contract. (man) do i need a lawyer for this? those were hard days. representative. switch! now that i got a huge storage and battery upgrade... i'm officially done switching. (vo) new and existing customers get iphone 15 on us when they trade in any iphone, any condition. guaranteed. (man) i really wished you told me sooner. (roommate) i did. ya know, if you were cashbacking you could earn on everything with just one card. chase freedom unlimited. so, if you're off the racking... ...or crab cracking, you're cashbacking. cashback on flapjacks, baby backs, or tacos at the taco shack. nah, i'm working on my six pack. switch to a king suite- or book a silent retreat. silent retreat? hold up - yeeerp?

i can't talk right now, i'm at a silent retreat. cashback on everything you buy with chase freedom unlimited with no annual fee. how do you cashback? chase. make more of what's yours. why use 10 buckets of water when you can use 1 fire extinguisher. and to fight heartburn, why take 10 antacids throughout the day when you can take 1 prilosec. for easier heartburn relief, one beats ten. prilosec otc. one pill. 24 hours. zero heartburn. dangerous ladders. gutter muck. yuck. no wonder you hate cleaning your gutters. good thing there's leaffilter. our patented filter technology keeps leaves and debris out of your gutters forever. guaranteed. call 833- leaffilter to get started. and get the permanent gutter solution that ends clogs for good. they took the time to answer all of our questions. they really put us at ease. end clogged gutters for good. call 833.leaf.filter, or visit leaffilter.com today.

dave's company just scored the end clogged gutters for good. call 833.leaf.filter, comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. high five! high five... -i'm on a call. it's 5 years of reliable, gig speed internet... five years of advanced security... five years of a great rate that won't change. yep, dave's feeling it. yes. but it's only for a limited time. five years? -five years.

introducing the comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. powering 5 years of savings. powering possibilities. today's meeting of the velshi band book club is underway. i'm joined by tim o'brien , the author of today's banned book

club feature. welcome and thank you for joining us this morning. >> thank you for having me on. >> i want to start with two of the themes that occur throughout the book. guilt and shame. they come up for every character. when a man died, there had to be blamed. jimmy cross understood this. you can blame the war. you can blame the idiots who made the war. you could blame the rain. you could blame the river. you could blame the field, the mud, the climate, you could blame the enemy, you could blame people who are too lazy to read the newspaper. who switched channels at the mention of politics. you could blame whole nations. you could blame god. tell me about this guilt and shame and how it exist more broadly in war. >> well, killing is a nasty thing. when one is immersed in the evil of war, you take it

personally. it is not an issue with politics or communism. you are embroiled in a second by second experience that is horrific. at the end of that experience, when the shooting stops and it is time to turn in for the night, you find yourself rehearsing what you had gone through that day, going through it again and again in your head. in the end, many of us assigned guilt and shame to ourselves. we were not brave enough, not macho enough. we hesitated at times. we were terrified. you can blame yourself for all those things, being terrified. you can also blame yourself for

the deaths of your friends. i was not outside, i did not respond quickly enough. you carry all kinds of emotions in the war. love for your fellow soldiers, love for the life itself. you appreciate things that you had never appreciated before. a mcdonald's hamburger and fresh air and the peace that surrounds you in civilian life in a way you had never appreciated it before. all of these emotions congeal into an experience that i try and do my best to replicate in the pages of the things they carried. it is an emotional book, and honest book, a way of checking out of telling lies that america has fallen in love with. ideological fairytales. some of those fairytales are about war itself. american soldiers and they are

always behaving righteously. they do not cause or use profanity. as a writer, i feel that is my obligation in the pages of a work of fiction to do my best to be the most forthright and honest. you cannot have a soldier saying g will occurs, i've been shot. soldiers do not talk that way. portions of america want that fairytale. >> is interesting. what i read in the introduction about how you addressed how people should deal with profanity. this quote that i just read to you about letting people who are too lazy to read the newspaper who switched channels at the motion -- mention of politics. we could be discussing today. we don't realize the consequences of death, of war, of soldiering. people say it is too much for

me, i don't want to pay attention to it. >> i think you are absolutely right. today it is compounded big time with these fairytales that i mentioned about the world, they are all around us now. part of the job of a writer is to fight back against what seemed to be dishonesty. the chief obligation of any writer, no matter what your subject, war, politics, whatever it might be, love affairs, your obligation is to try to the best of your ability to be honest and forthright. sometimes the world is a nasty place. sometimes it is a joyful great place. when you are writing about war, you do have to be honest about yourself, your own experience, and the fundamental evils of people killing other people.

>> you also write about the idea of healing and storytelling. telling stories is the inevitable process. this is a way of grabbing people by the shirt. how i allowed myself to be dragged into a war. all the terrible things i have seen and done. does anybody have any stories about healing like you did here. >> stories is one of the most powerful human experiences. it takes you out of your shoes and into the shoes of another human being. with the heart of darkness. it lasts in a way that to fax

are diminished over time. a story puts you in a situation where warren killing becomes an abstract thing. war seems to be abstract. it does not encompass the mosquitoes and the mud and the filth of it. not bathing for days. walking into the jungles. just a daily physical pain of it all. a layer on top of that, killing people. that's your job. it takes a toll on the human soul.

head is back in the filth of the war. it is not going to go away, any more than a woman can forget coming down with breast cancer. you are not going to relieve yourself of the memory of that. it stays with you forever. this is a way of bringing that back to life for high school, college kids and future generations. >> you. >> 100 of the best books oo written about war was red bag -- red badge of courage. i reread it a couple of times and it brings me back to something i have experienced, what the civil war was like, the story matters. >> tim o'brien, thank you.