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task of beating donald trump in november. >> are you being honest with yourself as well about your ability to defeat donald trump right now? >> yes. and out of the race and gather on the race that they are not coming down. a handful of democrats are now openly calling for biden's exit from the presidential race. but today the campaign aides are pushing back. >> joe biden is an 81-year-old man, he'll beat donald trump again. he's 81, he's going to restore roe v. wade. he'll make billionaires pay their fair share in taxes. he's 81, he's going to ban assault weapons and high capacity magazines in a second term. he's 81 years old, and he'll continue to bring people together to find solutions for the american people. on the other side, you have donald trump who is 78 years

old and poses a fundamental threat to our democracy, to our economy, and our way of life. >> some breaking news on the trials of donald trump. another delay in trump's classified documents case. judge canaan asked for a stay based on the supreme courts immunity ruling. we'll have a correspondent and former members of congress ready to unpack all these news developments for us. so we'll begin again with alex aly rafah. what is the reaction like for you in the interview? >> reporter: yeah, we know this was the most consequential interview arguably of the president's decades long political career. among nervous donors and his own white house and campaign

staff. whether this will be a repeat of the poor performance or this would help to flip the script. to be able to dispel these growing concerns. the main had takeaways from that interview is really that the president while it wasn't as bad of a performance as that debate, he didn't really do all that he could to dispel these growing concerns. the president continued to say that he thinks he is the best candidate, the most qualified candidate to be able to stay in this race and beat donald trump and he took full accountability for it and here is what he had to say as they asked whether he would agree to take a cognitive test to dispel the concerns that we know from poll after poll is one of the top concerns of voters. listen to what he had to say. >> and i have a chance every

single day. every day i have that test. everything i do. i'm running the world. >> would you be able to have that evaluation? >> watch me. there's a lot of times on the campaign. over 125 days. >> so the right answer right now is no? you don't want to do that, right? >> i have done that. >> reporter: the president also in that interview down playing recent polling showing him behind former president trump saying it is simply not what he's seeing. and he also said that only if, "the lord almighty would he step down on this race." the president is buying himself some time to be able to quiet these concerns. by the same token, that is also buying time for the democratic lawmakers and donors to think more about continuing to support them to give them more time to think of a plan to possibly approach him and ask

him to step aside and also providing more time for voters to really watch every single move, every word that's coming out of his mouth in the next few days and weeks as we expect his public appearances to really ramp up, alex? >> allie, thank you so much. we will see you again. in the meantime i want to bring in two former representatives, donna edwards, and nbc political analyst and republican, charlie dent. good to see you both. so charlie, after the debate, you wrote democrats must replace biden as the nominee. has anything changed in your mind since then? does that do anything to quail your concerns? >> no, nothing has actually changed my mind. i thought the interview didn't do much damage for biden. it didn't help him too much either. this election is about the next four years, not about the last four years. i've been talking to a lot of normal people, and i have not run into anybody who said boy, i'm excited about joe biden, he ought to run again.

they're saying he should not run or that they are very deeply concerned about his condition. it's pretty obvious to me there is too much talk going on in washington among insiders trying to dilute themselves that everything is okay when, in fact, it is not okay. you know, i've been saying for a long time before this debate occurred that most of the american public thought one candidate was too old and the other too dangerous. now they're starting to say one is incapable and one is unimaginable. and they are alarmed by the choice as our leaders are around the world. but normal people are not having the same reaction as a lot of these insiders. so i would say biden would do it to himself and the country a great service by stepping aside, take a bow, and you know, rest on your achievements. he made a comment about it the other day that he needed more rest and not to work as long. that's a good argument for retirement, not for being the president, which is a 24/7 job. >> yeah, well look. if you listen to him though, he's not going anywhere. speaking of the insiders, i

want to get into that with you. in this interview, he spoke about his conversations with the democratic leaders in congress. take a listen. >> and if chuck had schumer and hakeem jeffries and nancy pelosi come down and say we're worried if you stay in the race we're going to lose the house and the senate, how would you respond? >> i would go into detail with them. i have spoken to all of them in detail. every one of them. they all said i should stay in the race. stay in the race. no one said, none of the people said i should leave. >> but if they do? >> it's like -- they're not going to do that. >> and so look because of his experience in the senate, we know the president values the opinion of lawmakers. but do you believe, donna, no one is having these hard conversations with him other than george stephanopoulos? would he listen if they did? >> well i think look, the

president has a record, multi- decades of public service. he always looks out in the public interest and not his own self-interest. there are many democrats frankly who are taking the president and his word that he is taking stock of what people are saying and that he is moving forward. i don't know who charlie is talking to. but the democrats i'm talking to actually think the president should stay in this race and that despite the polling and otherwise he offers the best chance to beat donald trump who many people believe is a threat to the democracy. so i think the president has been reaching out to lawmakers. many of them will come back into town next week, and i'm sure reporters will be chasing everybody around the hill trying to figure out what they think. but at the end of the day, this is joe biden's decision and many of us who will trust them to make that right decision. and while i don't think that interview last night is a be

all, end all, that there will be multiple opportunities over the next several days and few weeks for the president to demonstrate that he's up for the task of tackling the job for the next four years. >> so charlie, comment on what she said to those that are or are not talking to biden and having these hard conversations. do you think he's getting them? >> that he e is having hard conversations? i can't say. i hope he is. i really hope that he is. but look, you are seeing more democrats come out in congress right now. and you know, making some pretty strong statements. look, a lot of people feel like they have been deceived. we've been told that he's fine. he's clearly not at the top of his game and he's having challenges. and frankly many in that white house have been pretty aggressive to people who called in to question some of those

statements and that he was not as quick as he used to be. when he heard that biden had not made progress, they have to be a lot more transparent. my daughter is a neurologist, i talked to her. i would like to hear it from somebody other than people who are shoeing for him. i feel i've been hearing a lot of spin these last few months, and they need to do better than what they're doing now. >> look, this all may be a moot point in a couple of weeks because there's certainly a clock ticking, donna. but can biden win this race? if he steps aside, again, that's a big if, he claims he's not going to, but there's time to see if he ultimately does. if he were to do that and back, vice president harris, does that have to be now? >> look, i think that obviously the clock is ticking to the

democratic convention that's coming up. obviously just the election that's coming up in november. look, i actually believe the president can still win this race against donald trump. it's a climb. it was going to be a climb before the debate. it's a steep climb now. i don't want to speculate what the president or vice president may or may not do, but obviously the clock is ticking. it will be incumbent on president biden to demonstrate over the next days and weeks that he's up for the task. i think he can do that. but you know, time is ticking. >> okay, but to that end, charlie, no president, since ronald reagan, has given fewer interviews than joe biden. does this president need to increase his visibility and build confidence or do the risks outweigh the rewards? >> well, it certainly seems like president biden has been

protected by his staff. you pointed out he's in view press conferences, he's going to have to ramp it up. i agree with donna, there is less of a chance to tell you who will run or lose in this election. but if the constitution is under threat and the international order on people's rights are a risk, then democrats would be wise to put somebody on the stage who can make the argument. and joe biden wasn't able to do that against his nemesis the other night. it was clear he couldn't do it. i don't think this is going to get better. these situations tend to not get better with time. they tend to get worse. so you can tell us whatever you want to tell us, but a lot of people watched that debate and it will be hard to persuade

them. >> yeah, in term its of putting people out there to make the case, they outlined a blitz and that includes every battleground state between biden, harris, the first lady, and the second gentleman. what can those others that i just name do for the outline? >> it is all hands on deck. clearly the president's team has laid out a schedule over this next month. a schedule that's going to have the president out in the battleground states, doing interviews in those unscripted moments. and his allies and surrogates going across the country as well. this is a real opportunity for the president and he'll take advantage of it. >> what about the down ballot

races, charlie? democrats are out polling. if voters decide to stay home on election day, how damaging would that be for republicans across the board? >> it's obvious to me the democratic members. , they're panicking. i have talked to some. they know that joe biden, he can drag them down. if there is a collapse at the top of the ticket and in the senate race. i mean if you are bob casey and some of the others in the tough states and also members from the tough house districts. they have to be concerned if the president collapses in those districts, you know, this will have real consequences. it is likely republicans winning the house. and you think they might be the ones making the call to the president about the severity of

this situation and what is truly at risk because i can assure you these battleground members are enormously concerned about what's happening at the top. they are. >> very quickly, donna. the issue of abortion. can it do in 2024 what it did in terms of the turnout like it did in 2022 in the midterms? >> well, i think it has tremendous potential. abortion is already six states where the issue is going to be on the ballot as well i believe. so i think that democrats are going to use it to their mechanism as the turnout mechanism, and it will have the same consequences in 2024 as it did in 2022. >> okay. charlie and donna, it's good to see you both. let's do this again. thank you. breaking news about the crisis that lies off the coast of texas and is moving closer and closer by the hour. we're back in 90 seconds. or the tacos at the taco shack.

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we have sad breaking news. minnesota vikings quarterback, kyrie jackson, was killed in an overnight car crash. it happened just after 3:00 a.m. when a speeding car tried to change lanes hitting the car that jackson was in. he and two others if that car were killed. jackson had just been drafted by the minnesota vikings in april. this morning in a statement, the team said it was devastated by the news and offered condolences to jackson's family. we also have this breaking news. the national hurricane center

putting parts of the texas gulf coast on alert today. officials say tropical storm beryl is expected to restrengthen into a hurricane this afternoon before making landfall sunday night into early monday morning. residents could face feet of storm surge, yikes, and some flash floods. joining me right now, guad joining us. welcome. how are people preparing for this first major storm of the season? >> reporter: well, authorities in texas have issued a severe weather. two weeks ago they suffered the affects of alberto, a storm that hit mexico, but did bring some wind and weather to that part of texas. and now with the severe weather disaster declaration, more

state resources will be available. this includes the texas division of emergency management increasing their readiness with some of those resources. as everyone waits to see what happens as the storm makes its way through the gulf. one of the main cities in that part of texas is corpus christi. authorities had a lot of flooding to deal with two weeks ago with alberto. they are doing everything they can to prepare. let's hear from the fire chief in corpus christi talking about these preparations. >> our city is coordinating not only with each department, but coordinating with state agencies to ensure we are taking the necessary precautions to ensure life safety and even planning for recovery after any storm comes our way. and life safety is the number one goal, so we're taking the storm very serious and we are asking the community to take

the storm seriously as well. >> reporter: one of the most important things for the community in that part of texas is to keep paying attention to the forecast as we report on storms on hurricanes every year, we have a forecast and we often have a path that will change. and that is why they are so important and if that surge or the storm is coming their way. for now, authorities and counties are doing what they can in the final hours to prepare. right now they indicate that they will be starting to feel the affects of the storm at some point on sunday and again that things could always change because the storm is over the gulf where the water is much warmer and anything could happen, alex? >> and it could strengthen, which is something we don't want to happen. coming up next, a new day, a new delay, and it is all thanks to the ruling by the supreme court.

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breaking news with some new fallout from this week's critical developments in the criminal cases against donald trump. there are new questions about the viability of trump's federal cases. judge aileen cannon earlier today adjusted deadlines in the mar-a-lago documents case after requesting a delay. and they report that they will move forward past the election day, whether or not that he wins. but the hush money conviction has set aseep his july 11 sentencing. and trump is celebrating the immunity decision in all caps, claiming total exoneration. joining me now is the attorney and host of the show here on msnbc. hugo lowell with the guardian, covering trump and the justice

department, and timothy hafee, the former lead investigator to the january 6 committee and all you good friends, i'm glad you're here. what is this ruling? can you break it down for us is? >> i'm so glad that you joined us. and finding them not guilty of the charges as he has tried that in new york and so no, it is not total exoneration. the absolute immunity that is not a new or novel concept that is always existed is just because of that expansion of something that's called presumptive immunity and the idea that now, some of the conduct of the president while in office is going to get the cloak of the protection of immunity until and unless you could look beyond it to determine whether or not that the comic that was done as unofficial and the last classification, which is private conduct like donald

trump for example as a candidate who had lost in november of 2020, trying to overturn them where they are not there and that is not a new legal concept. the quick takeaway that people need to remember is one, the idea that evidence, they could not be used in the course of the prosecution of that official act conduct. meaning if donald trump is to make a speech about how he wants to overturn and that could not be used as evidence and perhaps the fact he was at the time and that could be not immunized and so they cannot be introduced in that course of the prosecution and the fact that now there is extra work that needs to be done and now the judge for even, you know, in florida to make those

assessments and so again, there is a lot of bad takeaways from it, but it's not total exoneration. >> and the implication that's listening to you and the evidence in each of their cases could be thrown out and that is one. and lastly does it give them grounds to appeal that hush money conviction? >> and so the conviction that we know he's challenging it because the certain official of what he calls was being used and allowing them to brief that, they should get a ruling at the beginning. and if it occurred where they were in office and if it occurred. i don't mean physically, right? that he was signing these checks to them at that time and i'm talking about that conduct when they were serving as president and that it is not

just timing that was he doing it with his duties that you're operating within the conduct, alex. was that happening? and that is in florida and that is in new york, alex. that's the common period there. >> and so those charges, they could be dismissed then? you mentioned florida. all mar-a-lago stuff. >> that is why they need to do this analysis and whether or not that the conduct of donald trump was occurring. was that official? was it a part of their official duties as president of the united states to be able to steal and retain the classified documents? and no and what happens after he left the oval office? packing up the classified documents, getting them down to mar-a-lago, trying to get it back to them and that it will be, if not, related to his role as president and that is why they will need to hash out. one silver lining, guys, because he moved really fast on this and that motion was filed

and this morning before they got their days started, he would enter this order. if he's going to do a hearing, he'll doing that hearing and all the evidence that they were not going to hear in november, they will hear in the classified documents case. >> okay, we have them reporting that the doj would plan to move ahead and if the election goes for trump, they'll continue prosecutions right up until inauguration day. what are your sources telling you about this? right before the election, that they could continue all the way through the election day where it is that position for some time and that it is maintaining the position and

notwithstanding the immunity ruling. that's because the council has made it very clear that the rule, the 60-day rule that's being interpreted in more and more kind of weird and wonderful ways these days. the rule that will say the justice department should not take overt action close to an election. and they have said definitively that's with respect to grand jury investigations. and it is not going to apply to the actual prosecutions and going to trial because after all, that's in the per view and the jurisdiction of the trial judge. >> in your latest piece for the guardian, you argue a potential second term trump would be free to abuse core president be issue function without accountability. like what categories of immunity did the court outline? where do you see the most room for potential abuse, hugo? >> and so i actually take a more pessimistic view than katie. this is the core executive

function as the court laid out in the majority of the opinion is immuned. i envisioned the scenarios where, you know, trump as president and in that second term, they could have discussions with the justice department to end the investigations. and the example that i keep coming back to is the special counsel is. and that it was his belief that trump could be prosecuted for obstructing the investigation into that office and that is no longer true under the state of affairs in that country. that there is no way that they will be able to bring this case or bring that obstruction case because they would just say look, special counsel robert mueller, and those conversations with the president, they are absolutely immuned and you can't charge it and so they will go away. >> and with you, tim, justice sotomayor's scathing decent to the seal team six example and

picks a pretty grim portrait, immune, immune, immune. and here is what they say about it, take a listen. >> you can't design a rule that is solely about trump without putting, you know, the democracy at risk and eliminating to the risk that has gotten us through the separation of power and the corner stone of that constitution. and that they are due for those evil conduct that you can't go out to have that effort by the supreme court. >> do you agree with that? >> no, i don't think they got that decision right. they were focused on the rule that as he was just saying sort of applies broadly to executive

authority in the power of the president and not mindful of the immediate threat that they pointed out that you don't want them with that threat that is a bad incentive. in my view, that will create for them to do things aggressively without fear of criminal prosecution. and as they were just saying in order for them to check in and for judge cannon to make decisions about how this opinion actually applies to the evidence alleged, they need to hear evidence and that is what we're looking at with the proceedings at which they would lay out in the detail by calling live witnesses and what that witness is and how they

believe they survive their immunity tests. so they might come out more quickly because of the fact that judges have to apply the supreme court. i think that they will set that scheduling order for the hearing at which they will call them to the stand in a federal courtroom in washington before the election to make decisions about what is in and what is not. >> okay, just so you know there and let me ask you about that campaign, which is drawing attention to the governor who said that south carolina folks need killing of course, the conservative group behind project 2025 said this, let's

watch. >> we're going to win and we are in that process that will remain blood less if they allow it to be. >> tim, how do you interpret the violent rhetoric? can they strengthen their ability to enact plans that have been outlined by the conservative and the christian national backers now? >> yeah alex, look. all i could say in response to that we saw example after example during our investigation of the attack that people take that rhetoric seriously to say that is just rhetorical and it is not rhetorical to a lot of people that were there because they believe that the president wanted them there and that the president's invocation of that you have to fight like hell or you won't have a country anymore that they took it literally. in the polarized world in that country, that kind of rhetoric

very responsible because people will take it literally, not rhetorically. >> trump on social media said here is the quote, i know nothing about project 2025, i have no idea about who is behind it and he did not know anything about it and that is what i mean, saying he's desperate and lying about us. what are you hearing from that camp about the strategy here? is it just another lie? >> and so this is a real interesting thing that went on inside in the last few days. i think the top line is really that they were a little concerned about how close that project was coming to trump and how that would look politically and that it is because the comments there from the president that it will be if they allow it to be and that will really freak people

outside because they thought of it being damaging and what happened with trump going on the record and denying any involvement in it and saying that they were an unauthorized platform where they were creating stuff off their own project 47 agenda and they said that because they're concerned that they will use attack ads against trump and they want to be a dictator and that is the sort of thing they want to do and that it is a loser and they want to be able to foreclose the biden campaign from running those ads and that it was disclosed to me as someone that now that he has come out to say that on the record, that we could send seize and desist orders. it hit back up. >> okay, we've got most of that, but we had a weird little audio thing at the end, but thank you and this is a long chat. i appreciate you being here. stick around for all of this as

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they are worried about you in the country. they don't think you could win. they want you to go to grace and they will cheer you if you do. what do you say to that? >> that is the vast majority

and i don't doubt that there are some folks there. have you ever seen them running for office when they're a little worried? i've never seen that and i have not and the same thing happened in 2020. >> mr. president, i have never seen a president with 36% approval get re-elected. >> i don't believe that is the approval and our polls don't show that. >> president biden repeatedly waiving off polling that shows his growing weakness against donald trump saying he believes the race is still a toss up. joining me now is virginia congressman gerry connolly on the foreign affairs committee. it's good to see you, my friend. what congressman is your takeaway from this interview? did a blunt reaction from the debate at all help or hurt? and keep things status quo and are you sharing the reaction? >> well, i don't think we can

really erase the image of the debate with one interview albeit with george stephanopoulos. so i think there were aspects of it that will allow the president to show his capability and reassure it. but there were aspects of it that were flatly denial and invoking the lord almighty as the only, you know, intervention that could dissway him from running is not really helpful, right? no one could compete with the divine. this is an all too human process that doesn't really involve the divine. we hope ultimately that the divine blesses us, but meanwhile god's work here on earth is ours. and this is going to be a human process with human politicians, stakeholders, family members. the president be himself, members of congress, delegates to the convention, and the american public.

and it has to be resolved with, you know, consultation with all of those circles and to arrive at a rational well-informed realistic decision as to whether to go on or not. i hope the president can go on. >> but you know how we're always saying that you've got to listen to donald trump and believe him when he tells you something and so should we do the same with joe biden? is he not getting out for the divine almighty coming down to do so, which will not happen. you know, is he staying in this race? is all this discussion for not? >> and there are risks in dismissing critical voices. i think the white house has done a bad job of reaching out to those that they've got to know have deep misgivings. by not having that kind of

outreach, you're leaving individuals to their own devices and their own judgment. as we've seen, that has led to erosion of support in some circles. and so if we want to see the president's support and solidify, they will be a lot more aggressive with the rank in file members of congress and other stakeholders in congress. >> multiple debates show trump widening his lead. and more than three quarters saying they would do better with a different candidate. that is reflecting a lot of what you just told me. do you still support the re- election bid? >> i support this president and i believe it has been consequential and he deserves grace, dignity, and respect in whatever process that we undertake to evaluate what happened in that debate. i want to create space in a process that will be fair to

the president and that presumes as is the case that he is absent from the other action that they would speak to the nominee. he earned that and won every primary. you can't just brush that aside because you decided looking at polling data or talk to people that he is not viable. that there has to be a fair process for the president in which he is engaged, we are engaged to have that friendly conversation and we have not had it yet. let me talk about what we know, which you sir, address congress this week, focusing support on bolstering unity and burden sharing. what are the stakes of this summit? and the leader of nato's most powerful member. what does biden have to do in his meetings with the grow ball leaders to ease their concerns about keeping trump out of the white house given the sustain

for nato? >> again, i think his task is reassurance that there is an enormous anxiety among our allies, expressed privately, if not publicly about prospect of donald trump getting anywhere near back to the oval office. and what that means in terms of the u.s. solidarity with an alliance that is 75 years old that we found it and that it is working. in fact proving their value every single day on the battlefield in ukraine. so i think that it will be an opportunity for the president, but it is also a risk as is every public event that he's engaged in this time period post debate. but it's an opportunity for him to show his stuff. it plays to the strong suit for the policy and it is an international stage. it's an important opportunity and that timing is a good one

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new today record breaking heat is scorching many parts of the country with temperatures well into the triple digits on the southwest. nearly 115 million are under

the excessive heat warnings and other alerts. on the west coast and the south and in the mid-atlantic regions. joining us now is from chicago where it is not too bad there is it? i mean look, you have a gene jacket on, so it cannot be that bad. how long will that heat last? >> reporter: not too bad here to do, alex. but the full disclaimer, i'm always cold. so when it is hot outside for other people, it feels great for me. and that is what i'm saying, but we have seen some hot summer days here in chicago and that is not the case today with a little relief enjoying the beach. they aren't as fortunate and we are talking about from the pacific northwest to arizona and more than 50 cities could shatter records, especially out west where they are pushing nearly 120 degrees when you look ahead to next week. this heat isn't going away any

time soon and it could last until wednesday for some parts of the country. that's how long those heat warnings are in place. california has already seen in some parts of that area and las vegas, the high is forecasted for 118 degrees. now i think our viewers are pretty smart and they know health experts say to avoid the peak high temperature moments. but in case you need a reminder to make sure you're wearing your sunscreen if you do decide to go outside and stay hydrated. we are not talking about alcohol or caffeine, but that good old h2o, alex. >> very good advice, and i'm glad that you don't actually have to swelter in that hot heat that you're wired that way. good for you, my friend. any way thank you. in just a few moments, the big story that could hit a

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