good evening, and welcome to politics nation, live from new orleans. tonight's lead, the trouble with trump.

in about an hour, the largest yearly gathering of black women will hear from vice president kamala harris at this year's essence festival. i greeted the vice president late last night and her timing is crucial. president biden's team continues its damage control, following the debate performance last week. putting the vp out in front in that effort over the last several days, and appealing to black voters who appeared to be, to me, less apocalyptic about the debate than others. that includes the growing chorus of elected democrats, insisting the president must dropout. late last night, he shut the idea all the way down.

here is what he said during an exclusive interview with abc news anchor george stephanopoulos. >> i mean, if the lord almighty says get out of the race, i will get out of the race. >> if you are told, reliably from your allies, from your supporters in the democratic party, and house and senate, that they are concerned you're going to lose the house in the senate if you stay in, what will you do? >> while i cannot dismiss valid concerns about the president's debate performance, i must be clear that this election is about one thing, the preservation of our democracy which faces an existential threat if donald trump returns to the white house. the rest can wait, and as far as i'm concerned, so should we.

joining me now, senior spokesperson and senior advisor for the biden/harris 2024 campaign, adrian elrod. let me go right to it. we hear that the president joined a biweekly meeting with the campaign's cochairs this morning to thank them and discuss their shared commitment to winning the 2024 race, but also at this hour, we are aware of five house democrats publicly calling on president biden to step down. along with the major newspapers, of course. and as i just said, at the top, i believe the vastly greater threat to america is not the president's age but his opponent on the other side whose own debate performance with a string of life and insults, and who openly threatens our democracy. i still don't understand why that, in addition to trump's own advanced age, does not seem to matter.

but what do you say to democrats and independents still disturbed by the president's debate performance a week later, with election day barely 4 months out? >> yeah, thank you so much for having me, it is great to be with you again. a couple of things, first i am glad you mentioned independent voters because what we thought after the debate is that independent voters mcmartin were president biden then donald trump pick they moved away from them, they moved toward president biden. we put this data out in our own polling, we release that information. we also saw today a new bloomberg poll came out that shows president biden is beating donald trump in several major battleground states. is up five in michigan, up three points in wisconsin, he is essentially running neck and neck and other battleground states with donald trump, so the bottom line is, while we might hear the pundits and people on tv and some of the media saying that president

biden should not move forward, that is it direct, stark contrast to what the american voters want. we are seeing independence live in our direction. we also saw after the debate, eight polls came out showing that the race is essentially tied, that we are within the margin of error. i think it is important to keep that in context. that being said, president biden, i don't know how many times he has to say it caminos the debate was not his best night. that is why he is calling members of congress, calling governors and mayors. that is why he is having conversations with some of the cochairs on our campaign reassuring them, making sure they understand he knows he did not have the best night but that he also is the best person to take on donald trump. he beat us donald trump in 2020, he's going to beat him again in 2024, and by the way, since 2020, president biden has a real record to run on because he has done a lot as president of the united states, created over 15.5 million jobs. record unemployment, record gdp

growth. we could go on and on. the bottom line is, he is the best person to take this in he's going to keep doing his job, going on the campaign trail, is going to subpoena to malcolm he will be out on the campaign trail taking his case directly to the voters and that is where his focus is going to be. >> i hear you say it wasn't his best night, i thought it was a terrible night, but notwithstanding that, i think that we cannot have a president. iran for president, democratic primaries as you know, you can't set a president that if a candidate has a bad night, that means they should leave the office. i mean, who decides when it is something that a bad reflects morning on that particular night? but the president was on offense yesterday at a rally in wisconsin, calling out jump's own gaps and lies and saying that he refused to let the debate negate his administration's accomplishments. he probably will do the same tomorrow in a church service in

philadelphia, but until the president has a chance to face trump again in september, at the second debate, how does the campaign cut through all this noise? >> i think you just laid it out perfectly, with how we are going to cut out the noise, we are going to keep traveling to these states, make the case directly to voters. when you compare some of the local headlines, especially as you mentioned, wisconsin where the president just was and gave an incredible speech, to a very excited group of 1000 voters, thousand people from wisconsin, that is how you do it. you look at the headlines that are in the states, the local newspapers, they are far different from what you are seeing in some of the beltway press that are making headlines here in washington, d.c. the bottom line is, he will keep taking the case to the voters, we put out a statement today on

project 20/25 which is not getting enough attention but we will make sure it gets more attention, this is what the republicans want to do, it is a terrifyingly scary agenda that if donald trump sets one foot back into the oval office, will become the law of the land. everything from taking away reproductive rights across the board for women, it is stifling the rights of black americans, hispanic americans, it is doing things that were caused great damage to our economy, this is a terrifying agenda. the president put a scimitar today on this, i think you will hear him talk more about project 2025 and the dangers of this agenda which is a blueprint for exactly what donald trump would do. the dangers of this agenda, how it would affect the american people pick will keep taking our case, we are hitting the campaign trail, i will be with the president tomorrow. he is looking forward to talking to pennsylvania voters, this is how we are going to keep forging ahead. >> i'm going to deal with project 2025 in a few minutes

but i want to ask you about the black vote. in just a few minutes, we will hear from vice president harris here at essence fest, the largest yearly gathering of black women in the nation. 30th anniversary, i have been here all 30 years, and the democratic national convention has had a presence here all week. we also know that president biden has scheduled interviews, this week he had with two radio programs with large black followings. the questions were provided in advance to the host by the white house aides. how would you characterize democrats, blackfoot or outreach right now in the midst of this current conversation? >> yeah, it is obviously something the campaign is very focused on, we are spending millions and millions of dollars to make sure we can reach black voters wrigley where they are and that is one of the reasons why the vice

president is at essence fest. she is going there to talk directly to the voters, going to where they are, where they are living their lives and having direct conversations. essence fest is an incredible gathering of black americans from across the country. they celebrate their families and, you know, how good it is in their lives and the vice president has been there before, she is excited to go back and have these conversations. and, you know, look. the president has done a lot for black americans. it is one of the reasons why he is doing so much black radio, because he wants to make sure that the voters -- black voters understand what he has done. he has created millions of jobs for black americans. record low unemployment -- record small business growth. his agenda for black americans is significant and substantial and he has done a lot for them and he wants to make sure they understand that if he gets a second term, he will do even more.

it is a very important constituency for him, it is a very important focus of our campaign. and he is looking forward to going and directly having more conversations, as you noted, he will be in philly at a church to malcolm he will be after having direct conversations of black voters as well and it will continue to be a focus of this campaign. >> black unemployment is lower than it has been in our lifetime, if not more. and other things, i agree with that even though we have a lot further we need to go, and as you know, i always press the president and others to continue that. but for the first time that i can recall, donald trump and his camp have been relatively restrained about a perceived weakness in a political so. eject the president on social since the debate but he wants him to stay in the race as his opponent because of the democratic in fighting it caused, according to trump's

advisors, at the same time, he is focused more on his online venom toward vice president harris, as her name has been elevated. your thoughts on this, on how he is now pinpointing miss harris? >> it is pretty disgusting. he called her a name that i shall not repeat on your network. but that does not resonate with voters. first of all, president trump, donald trump, sitting at mar-a- lago, where has he been the last few days? president biden is on the campaign trail talking to voters, having direct conversations about how he is going to continue to improve the lives of the american people. donald trump is at mar-a-lago playing golf, we are not quite sure what he is doing. secondly, as you mentioned, he is using whatever time he is doing, downtime at mar-a-lago, on truth social attacking the

vice president of the united states. do you think that turns on voters? do you think independent voters suddenly say he is attacking vice president of the united states? i'm going to go support donald trump? no, that is why he has a ceiling among his voters, why independents are flocking to president biden, because i know he is a proven leader with a strong record, they are flocking to vice president harris because she has done the same thing. these are two people who care about them, care about their families, care about the american people, is that the american people first. and have a proven record and an agenda to back that up. again, i don't think anyone is turned on by donald trump making these accusations. people want to see leadership, they want to see people -- their needs being put first and that is what president biden and vice president do every single day. >> all right, thank you. senior spokesman for the biden/crystal bui 24 campaign. joining me now is the governor of ohio, josh greene my democrat.

governor, thank you for being with us, governor of hawaii. thank you for being with us. your a close ally of the president and earlier this week you joined two dozen democratic governors on a video call with him to address the alarm raised by the debate. i know you, a physician, asked the president directly about his health and his performance last thursday, what you said he blamed on exhaustion and being under the weather. can you elaborate on what else was said? >> aptly, thank you, reverend, for welcoming me on the show. i asked the president directly and he is dear to me and i asked him how he was doing because that was not the president we are accustomed to seeing. he had a bad night, he was exhausted and it is perfectly understandable that if occasionally any of us get sick, we are not going to have a

great night. but he has had a very exceptional several years, that is why everyone to calm down a moment before trying to force the president to a decision that goes against every fiber of his being, because he cares so much about this country and he absolutely knows the former president trump is a sociopath. he does not want to walk away from this if there is any way at all that he can continue to guide the country. the president was very direct, he made a self-deprecating joke which i know is covered by many different outlets and quitting the new york times, but to make a self-deprecating joke about yourself, first of all, you have to have some confidence in yourself and secondly you have to be cognitively intact. the president is old, all right? and the former president, mr. trump, is old. but the difference is, their underlying personalities are completely and absolutely different. this president cares deeply about the country and people come he cares about republicans, he cares about independence, he cares about democrats. the former president, mr. trump, cares about no one

because he is going to narcissistic personality disorder, he is archetypal in that way and that has put great peril into the lives of women. you know, reverend, 57% of african-american women right now have no access to abortion. 57%, because of what former president donald trump did. so, when you contrast the two people just about caring, there is no question. >> let me raise this, though. at this hour, at this very hour, the governor of massachusetts is the first democratic governor we are aware of to publicly expressed doubts about the president's candidacy. staying in a statement, nbc news has obtained yesterday, that he should quote, "carefully evaluate it." a few days ago, massachusetts congressman seth moulton became the third of now five democrats that we know of urging the president to step aside. massachusetts is a solid blue

state that the president won soundly four years ago. what do you take from this? >> every woman is concerned about the president. we are all as governors just people also. we have families and we talk about politics and we listen to our constituents, and everyone gets nervous. look, people have been talking about this for a long time, when we elected president biden, he was 77. is it any surprise he's going to be 81 when we get to the next election? the man has delivered. he surrounded by externally individual the care about our country. and that is the reality. if a couple governors or a couple congressmen or senators expressed concern, it is just like every other coffee shop or whatever. are you not concerned? am i not concerned? of course. but if we are going to apply this kind of test, this, i don't know, gold standard where we are going to put the president to the questions of cognitive function right now

and, should he get an mri scan and should he see a neuropsychologist or neuropsychiatrist? we better send that same message over to the former president and test him because i will tell you, if you turn over that rock, if you look underneath the hood of both president biden and former president trump, president biden, you're going to find he is 81 and he has moments. president trump, you are going to find he is 78 and he has pathology he has so she'll pathology which means he will not put other people's needs ahead of his own. that means all of his policies that you, i am sure, are going to describe this policy but they have got for 2025, are really going to take people's rights away, they are going to take their freedoms away, and they are going to be very awful to people. and i will say we should have an equal standard for everyone. there are going to be, like i said, if you governors that are nervous. a lot of people are nervous because they are

worried based on polling and what will happen, look. if the president is going to go down, he's going to otherwise step aside. if they know that he can't beat trump, he and the first lady care too much about this country, they will discuss it with vice president harris who is phenomenal and they will work something out. because other people don't want to see us lose to these ideologies that mr. trump espouses. give it a little time, make sure that if you are going to test mr. biden, president biden, let's get tests immediately for donald trump also. i am a physician, i have watched both of them, i have served under both of them. i know both of them and through experience, i will tell you, mr. trump, he has some very scary realities in his psyche. i'm sorry to be so blunt. it was very scary watching the

debate too. the two things if you want to compare them, i will take a bad debate over a bad person any day of the week for the next millennium. >> i must be honest, i have said this to several people, i was very disturbed about the president, especially a couple of times he seems not to be able to finish his sentence, but i was more concerned about the sentences that donald trump was finishing and what he was saying. 30 lies he told during a 90 minute debate according to new york times. but governor, organizers around the country are saying that the abortion access is headed to the ballot in three more states. this is -- you're the governor of hawaii purposes after arkansas said they had collected enough support for a petition to enshrine some abortion access in the state constitution. your thoughts about how this can change the conversation back to content.

>> for sure. by the way, hawaii was the first date to make sure that abortion was illegal for women, okay? my grandmother was ahead of planned parenthood in western pennsylvania when i was growing up. so as a physician who believes in a woman's right to choose, that is essential to my life. now, if abortion is the issue across the country, president biden is going to be the presence again in 24, 25, 26, 27. if abortion is the issue, whoever the president designates as a democrat to run this next four months of the election is going to win the election because there are 65 million women of reproductive age right now across our country , 65 million women, check the data, it is correct, every single one of those women would be wise to support a ticket that protects their rights. every single one of them. that means a pensive republican woman who i am close to, many

thousands of independent women who have decided this is their choice and their vote. the sad thing about the debate was everyone got obsessed with the fact that the president did not have a good night. and look, that is why you have got some governors and senators hemming and crying and worrying. but if you get back to principles and you look at the bloomberg polls and you look at the reality, if the president does well over these next four months, or if he chose to hand the donation, because he has earned it, off to his exceptional vice president, we should and will win the election because mr. trump does not care about women. that is he is so she'll pathology that is underneath the hood. and that is what -- >> we are going to have to leave it there, governor rick >> i appreciate you, reverend, thank you for putting me. sorry i am so passionate, i really care about this pic >> i love your passion. hawaii governor joss green, thank you again for being with us.

after the break, donald trump comes out to say he is totally against the controversial project 2025. sort of. i will explain.

[ speaking minionese ] junior. [ laughter ] good job junior.

way to go. [ speaking minionese ] welcome back to, "politics nation." with just four months left until the election, some of donald trump's top supporters are laying out the roadmap if he is reelected. the conservative heritage foundation has released a 900 page guide to transform the federal government, calling it project 2025. here is what the group's president, kevin roberts, had to say this week. >> we are going to win. we are in the process of taking this country back, we are in the process of the second

american revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be. >> joining me now is peter strzok, former fbi deputy assistant director. peter, donald trump disavowed project 2025 just two days ago after roberts made these comments about a second american revolution. trump took to social media to call parts of the plan, quote, "absolutely ridiculous and abysmal." and, says he has nothing to do with the group. however, trump has signaled that he wants a second administration filled with loyalists which expands his authority, basically adopting some of the plans laid out in project 2025. and today, the biden campaign issued a statement saying that trump is lying and trying to hide his connections to project 2025 and that it should scare

every single american because it would give trump limitless power, how concerning is this? >> i think it is extraordinarily concerning. first off, trump said he knew nothing about stormy daniels, he said he knew nothing about carol. he knew nothing about the trump tower moscow deal, he said he knew nothing about the exploding number of covered cases during his first administers and. the practice donald trump says he doesn't know anything about something, you cannot take him at his word. and the second point is, this entire project is made up of trump people. you have got john mcatee affiliated with it, he was venting personnel at the trump white house. you have respite who is the director of trump's omb, you have to stephen miller affiliated with the project. the fact of the matter is, these are trump people who are writing trump's agenda and it is an extraordinarily dangerous agenda. it is talking about a massive tearing down of the u.s. government and replacing it with trump loyalists.

it is talking about extraordinarily dangerous changes to our immigration stance and at every level of the federal government, the things that this project 2025 is proposing are extraordinarily dangerous and they represent exactly what trump would do. >> now, kevin roberts also said that conservatives should feel emboldened by the supreme court decision on residential immunity , which found presidents are immune to, prosecution for official acts. what impact will this ruling have on how trump will govern in the second term has related to the supreme court? as you saw firsthand, how he operates. >> i think it certainly is going to enable him. we don't need to engage in hypotheticals because we know what he tried to do during his first administration. during the summer of 2020 protests against the murder of george floyd, we had, through

mark esper, discussions about trump asking, can't we just shoot the protesters in the legs or something? we know that trump asked for his enemies to be investigated by the fbi, by the irs. we know the trump discussed shooting immigrants of the border these are not hypotheticals, these are things trump tried to do in his first at ministration and what the supreme court has done -- >> let me stop you right there. let me stop you right there because since you are referring to trump's first term, he ordered robert miller, the special counsel overseeing the russia investigation, to be fired. but white house counsel threatened to quit instead of carrying out this directive, this is what he did in the first term, if trump had thought he had absolute immunity, how would the showdown with the doj and the fbi had gone down in his first term? it seems like he would have felt much freer to fight his critics and even more. how could he use it to defy congress or even the courts in a second term on immigration,

policy and dealing with protests and dealing with political enemies? >> i think that is a great question because i think the reality coming out of this up in court decision is, we simply will not know. according to the decision, trump's discussions with his attorney general, with his staff and the department of justice are all absolutely off meds in terms of being able to be used. so as you noted, robert miller devoted the entire second volume about the 10 instances of obstruction. those obstructive acts will be extremely hard if not impossible to investigate, let alone prove if trump were to do it again and what i fear is that in another trump administration, the adults in the room, the people who, whatever you think of attorney general jeff sessions, rod rosenstein, whatever you think of them, they at the end of the day stood back and said we aren't going to do that.

those people are not going to exist and a future trump administration. >> i want your opinion, trump allies are now proposing that the united states will resume nuclear weapon testing if the former president is elected. ending a moratorium that the road's major powers have on it for decades. democrats won -- warn this plan could result in a nuclear arms race that destabilizes the global balance of terror and heightens the risk of war. what is your reaction? >> we have been able to maintain a clear advantage without any testing belowground for decades now. the worry is if we resume testing, countries like russia, countries like china, potentially other proliferators like india or pakistan, israel and others, who may have nuclear weapons or seeking

nuclear weapons will feel compelled to also test and you will get into an escalation back and forth, which the net benefit to the united states will be negative. so there is not a good reason to resume testing if we do it, it is going to lead to a global environment that the u.s. strategic interests are going to come out weaker than they exist right now. >> all right, thank you very much. stay with me. more politics nation after the break. ava: i was just feeling sick. and it was the worst day. mom was crying.

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welcome back to politics nation. president biden is putting a pause on any possibility that top democrats in the house would ask him to exit the race. here is more from an exclusive interview with abc news anchor george stephanopoulos. >> if chuck schumer and hakeem jeffries and nancy pelosi come

down and say, we are worried that if you stay in the rays we are going to lose the house and the senate, how will you respond? >> i would go into detail with him. i would speak to all of them in detail. including jim clymer, and he one of them. they all said i should stay in the race. stay in the race. and of the people said i should leave. >> but if they do? >> it is like -- i'm not going to do that. >> whispering in my political panel, carlyss, former republican congressman, and an msnbc political analyst, michael. democratic strategist and former staffer to congressman hakeem jeffries. michael, what if anything can voters clean from his sitdown interview last night and what happens next? >> if you are a voter looking to figure out whether the president is competent, whether he is mentally able to do the job, the answer would be, yes, if you watch the interview.

if you are someone who didn't want to believe he should do the job and you watch the interview, you probably thought the answer would be no. i think the reality is that he answered the questions the way he needed to answer them, and look, the reality is that he had this terrible debate performance but the very next day in all of his public appearances, he absolutely crushed it, and prove that he was mentally able to do the job. so i think the idea that this guy, with his 50 year track record, who had one bad night, should all of a sudden retire, is insanity. i think we have to be reasonable about the moment we are in, he has delivered as the president of the united states in a number of ways, historically low unemployment, historically low black unemployment historically high stock market for both the dow and s&p, and a litany of other things. so you should run on that versus taking these debates and participating in something that is a complete waste of his time.

>> carlos heard the president at the top there expressing a lot of confidence. what is your analysis of the last 10 days? >> like you, i talked to plenty of people on the hill on both sides and i can tell you this interview did not change very many minds. why? because a lot of democrats understand that as long as 75% of americans do not think that president biden can fulfill the duties of president during the next four years, it is going to be very difficult for him to win. there is one way for joe biden to win this race, it is the way he won in 2020. he has to make this race about donald trump. as long as a spotlight is on him and on the surrounding his mental fitness, it is going to be very difficult to do that, so congressional democrats are understandably worried, not just about the presidency, but about their own jobs, about their own potential majorities in congress. house democrats are just a few votes away from

regaining the majority. they think it's going to be tough to do that, as long as all these doubts about joe biden are circling. >> carlos, staying with you, the president is not responding to trump's claims that he knows nothing about project 2025. he says trump is lying about the plan and affirms that trump's so-called project will destroy america, assuming that most american voters will never read the 900 page book. how hard should democrats push to alert the dangers of this memo? >> well, again, the focus on this race has to be on donald trump and on the people around him. because even a president trump says he does not know about this come about is kind of hard to believe because the people putting it together are all very close to him. the problem is that as long as the focus is on president biden and his struggles to communicate clearly, to perform

in debates, that is going to be taking all the oxygen in the room and donald trump feels very confident right now. that is why he can afford to disavow his allies, he can afford to disavow this project 2025. he does not want to take any risks right now and he is willing to move a little bit away from his base because he feels is so confident as we continue to see poll numbers that show him with a wider and wider lead against president biden. >> michael, it is a crucial week ahead for the president. tomorrow hakeem jeffries will hold a virtual meeting with senior house democrats about a path forward. what do you expect hakeem jeffries will say? and on the senate side, democratic senator mark warner is already trying to assemble a group of his colleagues to get a handle on this.

it seems democrats from all angles are being proactive. is this a problem for president biden? >> i don't think so, i think if you are trying to figure out what the meeting means tomorrow for house democrats, you should view this as a listening session , hosted by peter jeffries where members can weigh in with their concerns and we can sort it out internally as a family as opposed to sort of one by one, people going out and making statements about the president. and so i think the leader wanted to provide a forum for all members to provide their perspective there, on the other side of the capital, mark warner obviously, in critical member of the united states senate and someone who has deep buy-in across the country, my perception there is, i think it is a mistake but it is probably one that has been calculated and has been done in partnership with a number of ceos, and other leaders across the country whom he has relationships with. and so that is the way i would view this.

in the house, it is just eliciting a session, in the senate, i think he has real concerns and he probably has buy-in amongst business leaders across the country. >> now, carlyss, even though it is saturday, i still want to take you to church. extremist pastor and trumpet backed nominee for north carolina governor, mark robinson, extended some not so praiseworthy comments from the pulpit last week. i was preaching in winston- salem north carolina myself last sunday and this man endorsed political violence in a bizarre rant and declared, quote, "some folks need killing ." it was not completely obvious from his remarks, precisely whom he believes needs to be killed, but still, what is your reaction to this, and with trump behind him, what are his chances of being north carolina's next governor?

>> first thing i will tell you some of us catholics are used to going to church on saturday evening, so this is perfect. the second thing i will tell you that this is the culture that donald trump has instilled in the republican party where some republicans think it is okay to express this kind of violence. they think their base will support them. a lot of times their base of support them. where they have gotten into trouble is when it comes time for the general election, a lot of swing voters tend to get squared away -- scared away by the type of rhetoric. i think this candidate, even though he has comes back in, he is talking in such extreme ways that i think he is going to scare off a lot of the swing voters that are going to decide that race. >> all right, we will be watching. thank you both for being with us. up next, why 60 years of civil rights are in danger of being reversed. my final thoughts, stay with us. hey little bear bear. ♪ ♪

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for my final thoughts tonight, as i am here in new orleans to take part in the essence festival, and right before i go to participate in an event hosted by vice president, harris, who i met with last night, it got me thinking about the fact that this week, we celebrated 60 years since the civil rights act of 1964 was signed into law. but as we honor this milestone achievement for our nation, we are faced with the nasty reality that many of our gains and hard won civil rights are under threat once again. whether it is voting rights, access to quality education, reproductive rights, equal opportunity in the workforce, lgbtq writes, or simply put, equality across the board. everything is online at this pivotal moment and that includes diversity, equity and

inclusion. best illustrated by the case of the fund. the first case where a company was sued for fostering diversity by granting and giving grants to women of color to start businesses. this week's anniversary should be a call to action from all, to recommit to an equitable america, respecting the sacrifices of the past while continuing to fight for a vibrant future. our children and their children cannot inherit a country with fewer rights than we had. and what we do in the next months will determine what kind of society we leave it for generations to come. one last thing, in the midst of the debate trauma, i am still insulted and puzzled by donald trump's remarks about black jobs but i finally identified what i had confidently called a black job.

something black people have pursued and protected for centuries, marching for it, fighting for it, dying for it. it is called voting. i will be doing everything i can to make sure we all show up for work in november. be right back. that does it for me. thanks for watching. i will see you back here tomorrow at 5:00 p.m. eastern for another live hour of, "politics nation." katie filling is in tonight hosting, "the saturday show." that starts right after the break. because the research is being shared all over the world.

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