there's always a new excuse. well if we got xfinity you wouldn't have to mess around with the connection. therapy's tough, huh? -mmm. it's like a lot about me. [laughs] a home router should never be a home wrecker. oo this is a good book title. good evening. tonight on ayman, defiance.

the president vowing to stay in the race as more democrats call on him to bow out. award-winning film director and producer michael moore is here. plus another biden appointee quits over the israel hamas war. the former special assistant at the department of the interior is here. and she stood in solidarity with her black students and florida republicans put a target on her back. amy donofrio fought back and joins me live. i am ayman mohyeldin. let's do it. last night, president biden tried to allay democratic fears about his candidacy in an exclusive interview with george stephanopoulos. take a look. >> i was exhausted. i didn't listen to my instincts. and i had a bad night. i convinced myself of two things. i am the most qualified person to beat him and i know how to get things done.

>> reporter: if you can be convinced that you cannot defeat donald trump, will you stand down? >> it depends on if the lord almighty comes down and tells me that, i might do that. >> reporter: if you stay in and everything you are warning about comes to pass, how you feel in january? >> i feel as long as i give it my all and i did as good a job as i know i can do, that is what this is all about. >> as long as i give it my all. i'm sorry to say this, but this is not a pickup basketball game. the interview does not appear to be quelling democratic fears. this morning democratic congresswoman angie craig became the first battleground house democrat to call for biden to withdraw from the race, joining four other democrats from safe districts. meanwhile the washington post is reporting senator mark warner is assembling a group of democratic senators to ask president biden to exit the

race based on fears he is headed for a defeat. senator warner's spokesperson did not deny this report and even more troubling for president biden, his normally tight ship is springing leaks seemingly every hour. nbc news is reporting on a growing feud within biden world between his family and his senior staff. one source told nbc news it is, quote, shakespearean and the report goes on to describe the finger-pointing as ida's family gets more involved. the dramatic turn in the race, biden's refusal to listen to anyone except the almighty, all started with president biden's disastrous debate performance. should have taken that long to see the warning signs? they have been blinking bright red since before the debate, most notably on the issue of the war with israel and gaza. countless voices have warned

biden and democrats to change course. they have questioned biden's judgment, his humanity and regularly being emasculated by prime minister benjamin netanyahu. time and time again those voices have been dismissed and met with intransigence. state department veteran josh paul became the first official to resign over what he called blind support for israel, which countered american interest and would go on to lead to the devastation of gaza and since then at least 11 more administration officials have resigned over gaza. many of them appearing on this program to issue their warnings, but it is not just government officials. in january more than 1000 black pastors representing hundreds of thousands of congregants demanded the biden white house push israel for a cease-fire. they also warned that his policies on israel could cost him his reelection bid. that was way back in january

and of course the loudest voices of dissent have come from millions of americans, many of them young and people of color, taking to the streets and forming a movement or setting up encampments on the campuses, all calling for the biden administration to stop funding what the international court of justice has called a possible genocide. regarding calls for cease-fire, biden first dealt with those stubbornly. here he was in november. after months of pressure and tens of thousands more deaths, he started to change his tune. did this february promise, ice cream cone in hand, inspire any confidence? >> my national security advisor tells me we are close. we are close. we are not done yet. my hope is by next monday we have a cease-fire. >> my hope is by next monday we will have a cease-fire was back in february. we are now in july.

from his redline and rafah getting trampled by israel to sharing this information about october 7 that his white house would later have to walk back, president biden's behavior surrounding the war over the past nine months has given us a small but important window into his questionable judgment, which we saw on the debate stage june 27 and his inflexibility. his unwillingness to budge or heed calls from trusted allies that we have seen since then. just like his stubborn support of israel, he is now meeting calls for a graceful exit with more stubbornness, ordering on denial. academy award-winning filmmaker michael moore is not only calling on president biden to drop out of the race. he writes that it is time for biden to step down and for vice president kamala harris to take the race. he is also host of the rumble with michael moore podcast and he joins me now. it's good to have you back on the show. you have some harsh words in this piece that you wrote, not

as much directed at biden, but at those around him. explain why you see it that way. >> well, thanks for having me on. first i want to say, i have been sitting in the green room, the virtual greenroom here at msnbc and the lord almighty is actually back there, sitting in the room. and he will not tell us anything about what is going on. he is only weirdly concerned with the slump the yankees have been in for the past month. i am like, lord, lord, biden said last night, you are the decider. you decide if he stays or goes and he is like, leave me out of this. want me to walk on water? i can do that. want me to turn a bunch of loaves of bread and fish and feeding thousands, i can do that, but don't ask me to get involved in this crazy

election. listen, yes, i need to start by saying and of course i have been very critical of president biden, especially since october with the war. i am very disappointed, but this individual has been the most progressive president that we have had in my lifetime. 3 1/2 years. you just look at the record. i hope i don't need to go over it. what he has done. how he got us through covid. he got us through covid by using science and vaccines. he removed, and i said this back in the green room, he removed the devil in 2020. i mean, just go down the list, but the problem here is that i think there is a form of elder abuse going on here where the democratic party and the people that are part of the apparatus pushing and pushing him to stay and then he comes out and says i am staying and the family says

i am staying. i don't know about you, ayman, but in spite of my criticisms with biden, watching the debate a week ago was heartbreaking. it was like imagine that was your father up there. i'm thinking, why isn't anybody doing anything? why did they let him go out on the stage in this condition? who is looking out for him? who is looking out for him right now? george asked those questions and he had to ask three or four times, will you just get a checkup? a medical evaluation, a neurologist. something does not seem right and we are not doctors, but each of us, all of you watching this right now have had or have in your life for grandparents and two parents. there are only six. you have step parents. we all have seen the decline of

the people we love as they get older. it is normal, it happens. that is not to say that somebody shouldn't be able to be president at 81. i don't believe that. look at ben franklin. look at all the people throughout our history that did quite well into their 80s. nancy pelosi is older than biden, so clearly this is not an ageist attitude. something was wrong that night. we all saw it. we can't and see it and as richard pryor and before that, chico marx, said, who are you going to believe? me or your own lying eyes? my eyes were implying and yours weren't either. >> it is an important point to bring up because i think there is another elephant in the room and in all of the calls for president biden to step aside, the issue of what was happening in gaza has not been mentioned.

it has taken a backseat, would you address gaza in your piece and should biden's decision have been a warning sign long before his bad debate performance? it is something i was looking at as well, saying there is something off in the decision- making here if you are seeing what is happening across america and still being intransigent and pursuing the same policy with no change of course. >> i've been saying it since the last week of october. i've set it on this network that there is a real problem now and i don't think people understand what the problem is. not only losing young people. you see, the thing about young people is they don't like war, they don't like anymore. probably because they are the ones that have to go fight the war, so they are generally against war to begin with. i come from a state, michigan, where there are 200,000 to 300,000 voters were of arabic descent or are muslim.

200,000 to 300,000 arab or muslim voters and the last week of october when the real attack and slaughter started in gaza, and that showed, with four states that have arab populations, michigan, florida, pennsylvania and virginia, and the poll said that people, biden got about 60% of the arab vote in 2000. as of the last week of october, that had dropped to people saying for the november election coming up, less than 20% of arab-americans are going to vote for biden this time. that was the end of october. they did another pole at the end of may, a month and a half ago. same number. down less than 20%. you cannot have, in the state of michigan, 300,000 voters

that are arab and muslim and they are telling you. not only that, vast numbers of them are saying they are not even going to show up to vote and the funny thing about trump's numbers in the same pole, he got one third of the vote in 2020, trump. today, by the poll in may, he is still at one third. he has not gone up or down. but the fact that biden -- they did a poll with young people recently and it said 12% of them are going to vote, but they are not going to vote on the top line for president and in michigan in 2016, the year that trump won michigan by two votes per precinct over hillary, and in 2016 there were 75,000 michiganders who actually showed up to vote, but refused

to vote on the top line and they were mostly people from democratic precincts who didn't want to vote for hillary. hillary lost michigan by 10,000 votes. >> you make such a compelling point about the politics, which is something joe biden has prided himself on being, an astute politician. somebody who says with his age he has learned over decades of experience that you have to be an astute politician to thread the needle. politico reported that the governor of your state, michigan, gretchen whitmer warned the white house that the critical swing state is no longer winnable. as soon as it was reported whitmer's team denied it and said biden would win michigan and again you were just saying this, but you warned famously in 2016 that trump was going to win the white house by winning michigan, wisconsin and pennsylvania. should the alarm bells be going off in the white house?

forget the argument about age and about gaza. >> the moral argument about gaza. >> right. i'm just talking about politically. >> this is what is so bizarre and governor whitmer, maybe she feels differently, i don't know, but it is how most people who follow politics in michigan believe, that it is almost unwinnable now. michelle goldberg in a column three months ago, the headline was lose michigan, lose the election. she spent a number of days in the detroit area, in dearborn, talking to a lot of arab- americans in michigan and it was clear to her, very clear, that this is a lost state for biden. it did not have to be that way. he won by over 100,000 votes in michigan in 2020. the fact that he would lose and possibly lose this number of arab and muslim votes and young

people. young people did the same thing on the campuses all spring in michigan. the differences between michigan and columbia or ucla is governor whitmer didn't send in the state police to beat up students. didn't tear that tends down. eventually it went to court. eventually it had to come down, but not until pretty much the school year was over. she knows and this is what i don't get about biden. in any politician's mind, what is their number one job? get reelected. no matter what. >> right. >> and the fact that he would decide to hug netanyahu, to go and tell him, as the tape showed in november. people want a cease-fire, that's it. no, he goes no. this has, i think, really rattled people in my state and

why he would purposely do this is another sign that something isn't quite right, because his political instincts are off. i just don't know. i think that we are in a lot of trouble now. if you asked me, ayman, a year ago this week if i was on your show then and how i think michigan will go, i would have said not only do i think this about michigan, i think biden is going to get reelected. i don't care where the polls are at. i just think that trump lost not by 7 million to biden. there were 10 million. you have to throw the third party voters in. 10 million americans who said we don't want trump. for trump to win this time that means he has to convince at least 5 million of them to switch their votes. that ain't happening. or convince them to stay home. well, now after the debate, after what he has done in

palestine, now there is a problem and i would not say to you that this is a sure bet, that trump is not going to be back in the white house. that is my personal, number one job, to stop trump. to make sure he does not come back to the white house. we are in deep trouble if that happens. >> i want to squeeze in a quick break and we will talk about how to do that after that break. michael moore, stay with us, please. please.

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michael moore. i will pick up on a point i wanted to raise. it was a soundbite i played earlier of president joe biden talking about the stakes of the election in 2024, when george stephanopoulos basically asked him what do you say f donald trump wins and everything you have been warning about comes to fruition? he said i did my best. i did my goodest actually, i gave it my all. >> i swear to god, this sounds like a -- i had a colonoscopy a couple months ago and they put you out and as you are counting backwards from 10 i looked up at the doctor and they said i'm going to come back, right? he said well, i'm going to do my best and give it my all. i am like, what? a month later i go to my nieces wedding and i'm walking on the plane. i always say hi to the pilots. i stick my head in and say how

is it going in there? how's it going today? the pilots as well, i'm going to give it my best. i will give it my best shot. no, no you don't say something like that when you are the president of the united states. there is more at stake than to say at least i will feel like i gave it my all. by the way, the colonoscopy doctor, the pilot, you know. i just think msnbc every now and then should be a moment of comedy. but i am serious, though. i am so upset. >> i know and listen, that is why we highlighted it, because it was also a moment that i felt was beneath the moment we are in in this crisis. you have project 2025. you have fascism at the doorstep of america. it is not about giving your all, it is about making sure this country survives every possible chance that you have. you know, it is why i am

worried about it. it is why i am worried that our country right now at the doorstep of what we are experiencing with donald trump is not taking that threat seriously and the low approval ratings for president biden. you also have a challenge for others. what do you see is the right way to go forward? is it kamala harris who gets elevated to the ticket? should she be the nominee? should this be settled quickly or go to an open convention? >> no, this has to be settled in the next week. this can't go on any longer. there are less than four months to election day. we need every day in the next 120 days, we need every day, all of us, out there doing our job to make sure trump does not reenter the oval office. there is no messing around with this. this decision has to be made. all that george asked him to do is would you just have a neurologic test? i can't believe a week has gone by and this hasn't been

demanded by congress, by a majority of americans. i am not calling, necessarily, biden. i'm not a doctor. i'm not saying you have to step down because you are not right. all i know is i watched the debate and something was wrong. i have had grandparents. everybody who watched this knows what i'm talking about and there is something. there has been a diminished capacity. please, white house and campaign staff, please get him to the doctor. i would prefer actually a team of independent doctors, not the one that works for him at walter reed, the army hospital. he is the commander-in-chief. he's the boss. that's not the doctor. we need independent doctors or a doctor that will do a neurological exam, a medical evaluation. why don't they do that? if it is all good it will put to rest so much of this and then they can say he had a bad night, but they are not doing

that. why are they risking our country? oh, i think biden did a great job, so i have to stay behind him because he worked with my auto workers in detroit with the strike. no. you did a lot of good things, president biden. it will never be forgotten. if you have to step down the most american thing you can do, and the founders were so smart. they knew presidents would make it for four years so they set up the office of the vice president specifically for this. by the way we have only had 45 presidents before biden. nine of them, 20% have not made it to the end of their term. that is a lot. it is what happens, but we are used to it happening and there has always been a peaceful transition of power. if he does have to step down, he should step down as a heroic thing to do. it shows it is a selfless act, because he is a selfless person

and then kamala harris will be the incumbent president. let's give her for four months so we can all be behind her and help her get this going. you showed a poll or someone at msnbc did from last week that showed what if it was biden versus trump and trump was ahead at that point by three points. then add the question, what if it was harris versus trump? it was the same three points. it did not go down. it was the same for harris and others were at war points or whatever. two candidates there was only a two point difference between them and trombone that was gretchen whitmer of michigan and cory booker of new jersey. >> let me ask you finally, and we are almost out of time -- >> sorry. >> no, not at all. it is not just donald trump that has americans concerned. you also have the heritage foundation that put together this project 2025 master plan.

do you think democrats have done a good job of warning people about the state of project 2025 specifically ahead of the election? >> no, but your network has. thank you for that. look, it is 900 pages so i don't expect people are going to read it, but leafed through it and it is a frightening document of what they are planning to do. trump says i don't know anything about this, which may be slightly true. ultimately for him it is not whatever the policymakers are writing up, it is about his desire for revenge and his belief in an america that we don't believe in. not his america. so yes i think that it is a critical thing. i am worried that nobody is going to please take president biden to the doctor. that we go so far right now. and if that is not the case, i

think, look. one of the things he will be remembered for his he gave us our first woman in the oval office. another great example of his values, of who he is. the foresight he had in picking her. if that is where we end up. it is not only not the end of the world, trump is defeatable. you've got to ask yourself of the 10 million who did not vote for him four years ago. oh yeah, they changed their mind. no they have not. you have had people on this network that say they would vote for a dead cat over trump. they would vote weekend at bernie's when they tried to keep bernie alive in the movie. and in missouri, a few years ago, do you remember this? the election for the senate race and the candidate died and nobody wanted the republican,

john ashcroft. and so the dead guy one, the democrat. the governor of missouri decided the fair thing to do, people wanted the dead guy over the alive guy. so he appointed his wife, his widow, as the senator from missouri. so we have a history of voting for the dead guy over the bad guy. so people, don't give up hope. do not despair. we are the majority. we are, the republicans have only won the popular vote once since 1988. that is the last time. from 1988 to now, what is that? 36 years. i'm sorry for the math. i am just saying. democrats have seven of the last eight elections by the

popular vote. >> you would not know that based on the way the supreme court makes decisions. exactly. we will talk a little bit about that later on. >> in 2018, the voters passed a constitutional amendment making it a felony to do gerrymandering. it is against the law now in michigan and once we got rid of gerrymandering, because michigan is a democratic state. every election the democrat -- people voting democratic come out ahead of the republicans and yet until the last election, until we have a constitutional amendment, the majority of members of congress from michigan have been republican. even the republicans have the minority vote. not anymore. that's not a democracy. >> let's hope we save our democracy. let's hope we save our democracy in november. let's hope we save our

democracy in november. i appreciate you joining us. take care, michael. thank you so much. next up you will hear from maryam hassanein, the seventh biden administration staffer to resign over the israel hamas war. stay with us. (man) every time i needed a new phone, i had to switch carriers... (roommate) i told him... at verizon, everyone can get that iphone 15 on them. (man) now that i got a huge storage and battery upgrade...

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four years ago, maryam hassanein was eager to vote for now president joe biden and part of the eagerness was seeing biden represented hope and even justice for muslims, arabs, and other marginalized groups in this country. now the dehumanization of arabs and muslims has made it clear that she has no place in the biden administration. this week she publicly resigned from the administration, becoming the youngest government official to do so and the third political appointee overall. she is now part of a group of at least a dozen resignees to publicly callout the unfettered support of military operations in gaza. many of them have appeared on this very broadcast to discuss

their concerns. this week they released a joint letter, urging the biden administration to change course. maryam hassanein joins me now. maryam, it is great to have you on the show. i want to start with this letter you and several of your colleagues signed. you have policy proposals and a message to colleagues working in government, encouraging them to step forward and speak out. for our viewers can you explain what you are urging the administration to do and the significance of posting this letter the week of july 4? >> thank you first of all for having me and really i believe that our joint statement is in aim of showing where this current policy in regards to israel and palestine has gone wrong. in showing that there are far better approaches that the administration can take when it comes to alleviating the crisis

and prioritizing the safety and well-being of palestinians. and i think really, mainly, some of those approaches include upholding international law and not discrediting international courts who have called out israel and israeli leaders in carrying out these atrocities that we have seen in gaza. that is one thing and another thing is truthfully and meaningfully expanding humanitarian assistance. we've seen the administration and congress cut funding when it is really needed most. and the significance of doing so, releasing a statement on july 4 is to show, the week of july 4, is to show that we continue to be dedicated to service in this country and we

really believe in the countries and the administration's potential to uphold its values of justice and freedom. when it comes to this crisis that we are seeing in palestine. >> did you at all try through whatever channels you could as a political appointee to express your dissatisfaction or urgent change? i know there are many layers to where you are and where the decision-making is taking place, but walk us through the efforts you tried to do within the administration if you felt there was even a place for people like you to express concerns and demand change. >> among all of us resignees there have been efforts to make our voices heard on this and to advocate for palestinians and a

better policy. i personally did not get the opportunities to make my voice heard through specific channels, but at the state department there are distant cables of course and you know, i attempted to really join in on open letters when possible and join in on other efforts that we, as a collective of federal employees, have put forth in order to commit to advocacy where possible. >> where do you think it is that most americans do not know about, just from being inside government, what is at the most americans do not know about why america is so strongly committed to israel in this war

and the way it has been conducting this war, despite as you said, growing international concern, international courts. pressure from americans inside this country on college campuses and elsewhere. >> i think what we have seen is really just this complete tied to anti-arab and islamic phobic sentiments that are really within, very present within foreign policy. i think that is what is really driving a lot of this disregard for palestinian lives. we have seen more than 37,000 palestinians killed at the hands of israel and really i think i point to those sentiments that the administration is doing absolutely nothing to really nip in the bud and really do more in terms of condemning and in terms of instead of perpetuating these tropes, they

are continuing to platform them themselves and allow others to platform them. i think a lot of it is that and a lot of it is this complete commitment to potentially foreign lobbying groups, right? i think that has a lot to do with it as well. so i think it is really a culmination of things. >> all right, maryam hassanein, thank you so much for joining us. i appreciate your time and insights this evening. next up, proof that you can fight florida's war on woke and win.

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florida is where woke goes today. >> that was the desantis administration doubling down on the promise when the state decided to go to war with a florida teacher who refused to take down a black lives matter flag. amy donofrio was a beloved teacher at the then named robert e lee high school in jacksonville, florida. she fostered a safe and welcoming environment for the schools black students. so much so that her students were empowered and compelled to advocate for stripping their school of its name, which honored a slaveholding confederate general. not surprisingly the calls to rename the school were met with a hostile response by locals who showed up to the school waving confederate flags, demanding the name stay. donofrio and the teaching staff were told to stay neutral on all controversies including the name change. but like always her students came first and in the aftermath of george floyd's murder in 2020 she displayed a black

lives matter flag outside her classroom. it sparked the saga at the school. the assistant principal suggested she remove the flag. she did not. months later a new policy was instituted. she was told to remove it or, quote, it will be taken down for you. again she declined. the next day the flag was removed and she was reassigned to work in the district warehouse. she would later be targeted by the desantis government, which filed an administrative complaint aiming at taking away her teaching license. despite threats and harassment, donofrio fought back after winning a lawsuit against the school board. she launched a legal battle to save her teaching license. last year a judge ruled in her favor. in short, the so-called free speech desantis government did everything she could to punish her for showing her support for the black community and students. their efforts failed. amy donofrio one and she is going to join me next. next.

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don't stop your asthma treatments without talking with your doctor. tell your doctor if your asthma worsens. headache and sore throat may occur. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. get back to better breathing. get back to what you've missed. ask your doctor about fasenra, the only asthma treatment taken once every 8 weeks. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. my next guest became a target by the desantis government when she displayed a black lives matter flag outside her classroom. she fought back. amy donofrio joins me now. let me apologize for mispronouncing your last name. i'm so sorry for that, but i really appreciate you joining us and i hope i will get it right going forward. let me start with this reaction to this judge ruling in your

favor. after all of these threats, how does it feel to be vindicated at this point? >> it is an overwhelming emotion. there is relief. i am so thankful that truth was upheld and affirming black students is our responsibility as educators, not something that should cost us our license. also there is a sense of grief from three years of fighting and our students and community having to go through this. >> as i mentioned you were not just targeted by parents. you had the state government going after you. i want to play a quick clip from then education commissioner richard corcoran and what he said about you in 2021 after you were reassigned. >> i am getting sued right now in duval county, jacksonville, because it was an entire classroom memorialized two black lives matter.

we made sure she was terminated and now we are being sued by everyone of the liberal left groups for free speech issues. >> what is it like to hear officials in that capacity, people with power all the way up to the governor of florida, mischaracterize, lie, disparage and demean what you are doing? >> it was devastating. it changed my life forever, frankly. it was terrifying. at that time i was actually still employed and the state investigation is open. soon after i spoke up about it, both changed. i want to clarify there were no parent complaints. there was not a single parent complaint. not a single student complaint. in fact parents were very much vocal about wanting the flag. about one to me in the classroom. there are a lot of things that are concerning, but we talk

about parent rights and i said before you have to ask yourself, what parents? i just saw again and again and again that the voices, the desires of black parents or their children, disregarded over and over and over. and that is just not right and i think we have to take a good, hard look at our self in the mirror as a state and really think about why that is and how we fix it. >> why do you think this is happening? i guess broadly speaking, now that you have been on the receiving end of this, how is it possible in this day and age that government agencies, the education system and certainly the florida and leader of florida would go after you in a way that is supposed to have a chilling effect on the broader discourse in society, right? ron desantis was clear about this. he says this is where woke goes

to die and they were trying to portray this. i want to get your thoughts having gone through this experience. what is your take away as to why florida is doing this to you and to others? >> i've been thinking about this question and what i can come up with is really concerning. people forget, 64% of public school students in the state are students of color. supporting their needs is not woke, it is just basic humanity. it is a really scary place to be as a society. in the state that i love. that we would find something controversial about simply saying, you matter. we care and we are here for you. but that is where we are. >> let me go back to the point

you were raising about the parents and students. talk about what you received from your students. i understand when you were reassigned they collected 18,000 signatures on a public petition calling for your return. talk to me about how and what that felt like. >> like every teacher i have the best students in the world, it is just that simple. i have amazing students that have achieved incredible things. prior to my removal, my students cofounded an organization. with very little resources or funding and run by students who are faced with all kinds of challenges from homelessness to incarcerated parents to murdered loved ones. they decided to do something to create positive change. they met president barack obama. they presented at harvard university. we have presented at the white house, given a ted talk, done all these things.

and instead of encourage students and applaud students, when it comes to black students in the state of florida, it is hard to talk about because i have thought about it so many different ways. the only thing i can say is the level of racism our black students is up against, definitely in jacksonville, florida, definitely at robert e. lee high school where i was, but florida in general, is terrifying. any person with any bit of humanity your heart should be concerned and should be vocal. my students, they knew how to mobilize. they knew how to use their voices and they knew before they had me as a teacher. i am really proud of them for standing up and speaking out for what they believe was right. >> we thank you for everything you are doing and for being so courageous. amy donofrio, thank you for making time for us. thank you for joining us. a new hour of ayman starts after a quick break.

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