thanks for joining us today. jonathan capehart will be back here next saturday or sunday. follow the show using the handle and we can capehart and catch clips of the show on youtube. clips of the show on youtube. this is dateline. >> that was all surreal.

it still is. things like that don't happen to small town people. i was very scared. i was worried that i was going to be next. >> he was the friendly farmer about to make it big on reality tv. >> he loved being on tv. >> a success to celebrate after so much loss. his first wife killed in an awful fire. >> i was devastated. this is my sister. she was just this sweet wonderful giving person. >> they called it a horrible accident. but here is the thing, accidents just seem to keep happening, deadly ones. >> and these thoughts kept coming up. an intuition that something was just not right. >> wife number two had a growing suspicion, and she also had a plan. >> i had actually watched an episode of dateline. >> a dangerous mission. was her own life at risk?

>> this is a mystery novel that would not end. you couldn't write this story. hello and welcome to dateline. a young mother in a house fire was too much for her family to bare. and then years later, another devastating accident, and another loved one gone. was this just a string of brutally bad luck or the work of a calculating killer? here is andrea canning with deadly deceit. >> reporter: snapshot of the time gone by. capturing a life that could have been. now all that's left are the burned out remnants of a life that's gone. >> i've seen the destruction to my family. i've seen my parents fall apart. >> i didn't think my life would turn out like this at all.

>> this not come to ahead now, then it would have died down. the carlson family would have always wondered. what really happened? >> the story begins here around the finger lakes. a stunning part of upstate new york. this is where the carlson family put down its roots. >> all right, carl. >> it's here that carl carlson brought his family, christina, to meet his family in 1986. his brother, mike, took her to right away. a very sweetheart of a kid. >> reporter: they met in north dakota where karl was stationed in the air force. when he was discharged, they came to his home to make a life. was she a good fit to the karl

sen family? >> absolutely. and karl the rough and ready country boy. her sister liked the way karl made chris laugh. >> he was a big barrel chested guy. aaron, levi, katie. >> she would be on the floor, instructing them. and it wasn't just her kids. it was all of our kids. >> look at those two lovely people over there. >> reporter: christina seemed happy, but karl wanted more than a life working the quarry. christina's father, art alexander, offered a ticket out. the job of the future working in his heating and air- conditioning company. >> if you ever need a job, just

come on out to california and you'll have a job because you can work with me. >> reporter: so they moved all the way across the country to murphy's, an old mining town in the sierra foothills. karl found them a ramshackle house at the top of this long winding road. >> she went into home decorator mode and started painting, sewing curtains. every time i go up, it's like wow, this looks really good. >> karl? thank you. >> reporter: just a week later, their lives would change forever. it was new year's day, 1991. >> when i came outside, i saw the smoke from the house. i could see where the smoke was. their house was on fire. karl said he was in the garage, but rushed to the house. he pulled the kids out of their bedroom windows where they were

napping, but christina was trapped in the bathroom with the flames raging just outside the bathroom door. the window was boarded shut from the inside. by the time art arrived, the paramedics were already on the scene. >> i got in the ambulance and looked around and said where is chris? and they told me one of the kids said she's with god or she's, the angels took her or something like that. she wasn't there. >> reporter: art could only imagine the terror of her last moments on earth. he then placed one of the toughest calls he's ever made. >> i need to tell you something. he said there was a fire out at chris' house and everyone got out, but chris. and i said are you kidding me? and he said no. >> back in upstate new york, the karlsen family got the

terrible news. so mike and his sister-in-law flew to california to help karl and the children who were all under the age of seven. >> i said tell me what to do. and he was just numb. he was more of a zombie. he just said i don't know. >> are you thinking how in the world is my brother going to take care of these three little kids? >> they had no clue. >> karl spoke briefly with fire investigators. he wasn't sure how the fire started, but he knew why it moved so fast. the pets knocked over kerosene a day or two before. it was hard for karl to deal with anything important. after a while, mike pressed him a bit. >> what do we do? if we stay in california, then you need to arrange for an apartment. you need to get supplies, get the house settled because the kids need some form of

stability here. and that is when he said i just want to go home. >> so four days after the fire, karl packed up the three children and flew back to upstate new york. it was yet another blow for christina's grieving family. >> my sister and i made a pack to each other that our kids were going to grow up knowing each other and then it was stripped in five days. >> all christie e that's father had left of his beloved daughter was this box of charred photos that he rescued from the house. reminders of her and the grandchildren he loved. >> after her death, i was probably more dead than alive. i didn't pay attention to a lot of things that i should have. but i muddled through it. i didn't care. >> hobbled by grief, he also felt a helpless and maybe pointless anger toward his son- in-law and wondered why didn't karl do more to save christina

that terrible day? >> there was a pit laying in front of the tree outfront if somebody wanted to pull a board off the window. >> for the children, art would contain his anger and keep the family peace. but what happened in that little house on the hill would come back to haunt christina's family in the years to come. another painful loss is about to hit this family. one that none of them expected. coming up. >> i don't think he's alive. >> you don't think he's alive? >> no. >> when dateline continues. no tunes today? no. my apartment was robbed last night. took my cable ready tv, vcr, portable cassette player. yup. all the latest tech. if only progressive had renter's insurance like their home insurance. then we could bundle our cars and get the same 24/7 protection. -i think we just invented that. -huh. this is the best day ever.

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♪ andrea canning: the finger lakes region of upstate new york was karl karlsen's family home. and now he was back to stay. here in seneca county, he would rebuild his life-- it was karl karlsen's home and now he was back to stay. here in seneca county, he would rebuild his life among the farms, the fields, the vineyards, and old friends. does everyone in this area know the karlsen family? >> probably most of seneca family would know one or all of us. >> reporter: karl's wife was gone, but he still had his three little kids to think about. >> and he went back to work for a while and saw an opportunity that had just opened. >> was there a lot of concern

for karl? >> that everybody realized this poor guy was not going to do it himself. he was surrounded by a big extended family where they meant something and it all seemed to come together in 1992. >> and he told me he had lost his wife in a fire and was a single dad. >> reporter: cindy got herself an instant family when she married karl in 1993. and between the farm and the glass job, karl was busy. cindy was desperate to have a child of her own. so they went through in vitro fertilization. >> and the happiest time of my life. >> the big kids were happy too when their brother, alex was born. alex said him and his big

brother levi developed a special bond. >> he was always there for me and loved to hang out together. they stayed in touch and even visited. their aunt got to know the girls and got a kick out of levi. >> levi had this little quirky personality and he also had my sister's very sweet spirit. >> reporter: that his life wasn't easy. he would have problem in school and he and karl began to butt heads. >> levi bucked the system a little bit. he was the typical teenage boy who knew all the answers. the more levi struggled in his world, karl held him down rather than try to pick him up. >> reporter: the rift widened. in may of 2000 when levi was only 17, he left home. his uncle mike watched it happen with sadness. >> he dropped out of school, which didn't help things at

all. he jumped and didn't it look where he was jumping to. so he didn't have a job and he floored from house to house to different family members. >> reporter: he eventually met a girl named kasie when disaster struck the family again. it happened in november of 2002. as cindy was remembering it, karl was sitting upside in bed. >> he said oh my god, call 911, the barn is on fire. >> cindy did call 911 and her brother-in-law. >> he mentioned that the horses were still in there. >> they will been breeding belgium horses. the loss of the old barn was devastating to the family. levi exploded. he said some terrible things and he and karl came to blows. >> and levi got in his truck to get away from karl and karl chased after him. i was yelling at karl, just let him go, you know, leave him

alone, let him go. >> but levi was never able to stay away for long. he and kasie include karl and the rest of the family in 2003. the young couple soon had two daughters, but it may have been too much too fast. the marriage didn't last. >> it was just a bad divorce. neither one of them was nice to each other. >> but like many kids, levi started to grow up. he got his ged, started working, and tried hard to be a good dad. perhaps him being a father, his anger with his own father began to soften. >> i think he rounded the corner a little bit. he could see some sort of a path and a direction for his life. >> levi had his own place now, but would drop by the old house to see the family and help karl with some work. on november 20, 2008, levi came over to work on a truck it in cindy and karl's newborn. cindy remembered she and karl had just come home from a

funeral. they had been gone for about four hours. >> karl told me that he was going to go out to let levi know we're home. >> cindy went into the house. suddenly karl came rushing out of the barn. >> he came banging on the window and the door telling me to call 911. >> what's going on? >> the truck fell on my stepson. >> coming up. >> the truck was jacked in a very precurious dangerous scenario. >> yet another deadly accident when dateline continues.

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okay, are you with your son right now? he's not alive. >> is he breathing? >> no. >> he is not breathing? >> no, no. >> another catastrophe had struck the karlsens. leave vie was trapped under a car in the barn. he's probably been under for hours. >> reporter: karl's brother, mike, rushed over. >> they were just springing levi out on the stretcher and putting him in the ambulance when i got there. >> levi was taken to the hospital, but the family knew it was hopeless. 17 years after his mother's terrible death, levi karlsen died at the age of 23. >> he was throwing himself up

against the wall and he was on the ground. so many tears and so many questions. >> how could levi be so careless? the car was jacked in a dangerous scenario with no blocks under it. a flimsy jack holding it up. >> are you thinking levi knows better than this? >> absolutely. >> now once again, karl karlsen had to pull himself out of the depths of tragedies. it would take a while, but this time he seemed to come out of it a changed man. karl got fired up by a new plan to start a duck farm and began raising thousands of ducks to new york restaurants. he and cindy even found themselves starring in an episode of pitching in. a food network canada series. >> i think he had these visions that he was going to be this famous person, rich and famous.

>> cindy watched her husband's ego swell with all the attention and worried that it had been less than three years since levi died, yet karl seemed to be having the time of his life. was that normal? >> just like an intuition that something just was not right. >> she kept thinking about the day levi died. it turns out mike was uneasy about it too. what did karl say to you after levi's death? >> not a lot. i went to the hospital, and i was in the room with levi. karl came in the room. i don't know what i wanted him to say, but he says how do i explain this? >> what do you mean by that? >> i have no idea. >> mike didn't share his misgivings about karl with cindy. she thought that for a while. >> oh my god, i think he did

it, you know? and then i would also talk myself out of it and tell myself, you know, you're crazy. we weren't even home at the time. >> reporter: officials called it an accident and yet? >> and these thoughts kept coming up. kept thinking more and eventually ended up using alcohol as a way to cope. >> cindy confided in a couple of friends. they dismissed her fear, but someone suggest she call a private investigator. that's how she met steve brown. >> she walked in the door and looked frail, physically, emotionally, just sickly weak. >> reporter: cindy told the private investigator about her crazy fear that her husband had killed his own son. and she remembered something. he went to the barn to see

levi. for a few minutes, he was alone there with his son. >> karl wanted to check on levi before they left and karl had come back to the vehicle and they drove off to the funeral. you know, he seemed fine the entire time, normal behavior. >> but when they came home from the funeral, she noticed something else. >> we got out of the car and the first thing i heard was the radio in the barn and it was very loud and it was set on country music, and anybody that knew levi, he would not be caught dead listening to country music. >> whoever turned the radio on, it probably wasn't levi. could it have been karl? the private investigator found the story troubling and it set his mind racing about karl. >> i was pretty quiet the rest of the night dissecting how could that be? how could somebody do something

like that? >> cindy had thought no one would believe her, but now private investigator steve brown did. he set out to examine phone records and insurance policies. but he also wanted to meet karl karlsen, so he and cindy came up with a plan. but it would require her to take a big risk. coming up. >> i had actually watched an episode of dateline. when dateline continues. but this is a not flash. for moderate to severe vasomotor symptoms due to menopause... ...veozah is the first and only prescription treatment that directly blocks a source of hot flashes and night sweats. with 100% hormone-free veozah... ...you can have fewer hot flashes... ...and more not flashes. veozah reduces the number and severity of hot flashes day and night. don't use veozah if you have cirrhosis,

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with the news update. tropical storm beryl is on track to make landfall in the texas coast. the storm expected to restrengthen into a category 1 hurricane and bring life threatening storm surge and winds to the region. we'll be watching that. and france's left wings parties projected to finish first in the second round of the parliamentary election who rode to victory in the first round

of voting last weekend. for now back to dateline. welcome back to dateline, i'm craig melvin. it was a stunning realization. cindy karlsen believed her husband, karl, killed their son, levi. armed with a few tactics, she actually learned from dateline cindy would soon take on a dangerous mission. confronting the situation. here is andrea canning with deadly deceit. >> in november 2011, private investigator, steve brown, decided it was time to meet karl karlsen. he and cindy came up with an audacious plan. >> i said what if i go

undercover and befriend karl if you will as a marketer or promoter for your duck business. >> it was a giant step for cindy and risky. if karl found out who steve really was? >> no clue this was a private investigator? >> correct. >> when he came to the house, i had to pretend. >> where are you now? and karl started telling his vision, his dream for the duck business if you will. >> after that steve said he and karl would drive around the area talking business mostly. the one moment stood out when he was talking about farm animals. >> and he came up behind me and went like this with his hand and he said messy, very physical. i said karl, we are talking about ducks and chicken, aren't we? >> steve didn't want to contact police until he had more evidence. but in february of 2012, the

decision was taken out of his hands when cindy confided in her cousin. >> i told her my suspicions, but i asked her not to say anything. >> despite that, the cousin promptly called the sheriff's office. john clear was the detective who took the call. he wasted no time in contacting cindy karlsen. >> how did that go? >> the first thing she said was thank god you called. thank god you called. i was so relieved. >> detective clear met with cindy karlsen and steve brown and levi never had much money and had taken out an enormous life insurance policy. >> the most useful piece of situation is about an insurance penalty that was paid out. >> they learned on november 3, 2008, karl helped levi sign up

for the policy, the beneficiary, takes out approximately a $400,000 life insurance policy with a $300,000 accident writer about 17 days later. the fatal accident happens. >> the money is suppose to go by to their daughters. >> a whole multitude of things. there were some huge payouts on that. >> reporter: as he dug deeper, detective clear. in 1986, karl's dodge charger caught fire. the fire that took down the barn paid out nearly $115,000. they also learned he had taken

out policies on levi's two little girls. karl had no idea he was being investigated, but cindy still wanted to get away from him, so she moved out of the house. after she did, karl sent a text saying she had heard she had been snooping around that it scared her. >> it was a threatening text. i can't remember exactly what he said, but enough to looked like i couldn't do it anymore. >> she called and had to leave town. she came out to my car and packed all of our suitcases and our dogs and they were in the car. she told me there was an investigation going on because they thought my dad had called my brother. >> they started living in hotels. cindy dodged karl's calls and so did alex. but after a few months of that, sin cindy decided to do things

a little more proactive and had an inspiration. >> i had watched an episode of dateline where this woman was reporting her mother, and i like hit this revelation and i i thought if i could get him to confess, it would show had their lives together. and a small voice recorder tucked under her bra. >> i started telling him that i was considering getting back together with him, but that i couldn't even consider it unless he started telling me the truth. and he said to me it sounds like you want me to say that i had something to do with levi's death. well at that moment, i knew that we skipped right over the

barn fire. i said did you push the truck, was it hard to push? he said no, it wasn't. >> was that a confession? cindy felt like it was. she rushed the reporting, believing her enough. >> andnow she was working with the police to take down her own husband. she got aware with it once. would karl catch on the next time around? coming up. >> i had to convince him that it wasn't a trap. >> but could she when dateline continues. ♪ ♪ with wegovy®, i lost 35 pounds. and some lost over 46 pounds.

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[ speaking minionese ] andrea canning: cindy karlsen was willing to play the sympathetic wife with the man she had come to fear and hate. that's how badly she wanted her husband out of her life cindy d karlsen was willing to play the sympathetic wife of the man she came to fear and hate. that's how badly she wanted her husband out of her life and locked away. when police asked her to wear a wire and meet him for lunch again, she jumped at the chance. >> i was actually calm. >> and it was mid november, 2012. >> so you had undercover officers in the restaurant? >> we had four in there.

>> were they diners, waiters? >> diners. >> there was very little evidence against karl karlsen, so the detectives desperately needed cindy to get him to repeat what she claimed was the confession to his murder, but obviously karl was suspicious. >> a part of me feels like i'm walking into a booby trap. >> i had to convince him that it wasn't a trap. i offered for him to check my purse. >> ten she got him back on the subject of that day in 2008. >> i asked you if you pushed the truck and you said yes. >> i said i had nothing to do with it, but i took a damaged situation. >> karl told me that you didn't set it up that way, but you saw

the opportunity? >> it was after it was happening and i panicked and saw the opportunity. >> detective clear was struck by that exchange. how could a father call his son's death an opportunity. >> at that moment i felt i understood him to a degree. this is someone who doesn't think like we do. >> that said, this exchange with cindy was no confession and the evidence so far was circumstantial. the insurance, the radio, karl's visit to the barn. still they believed they had enough to bring him in for questioning. it was the moment of truth. if he called in a lawyer, the case could evaporate, but he could not resist talking about himself. >> i mean i work multiple jobs and stuff like that and i mean i did. i worked. >> we were talking about his favorite subject, him. >> karl said he found levi dead

after returning home just like he told the police in 2008. >> you went throughout and found him? then we went to the hospital. >> what do you mean you found him? i found him dead. the truck was on him. >> karlsen insisted levi's death was an accident. it couldn't have been anything else. >> you don't kill your self or anyone for money. >> there is not empathy to play to. what do we play to? what does he have in that is the strategy that we shifted to giving him a lot of sympathy and attention. >> it seemed to work as the hours ticked by. karlsen's story began to change. then he dropped a bomb shell. >> version two came out where he admitted that he -- that levi was already dead when he

left. >> i made the decision to walk out on my son and not get him from underneath the truck. >> why? >> at that point, there is no doubt in my mind what happened here. >> detectives continue to push as the interrogation stretched into its eighth hour, karlsen finally broke. he admitted he didn't just find levi under the truck, he saw the truck fall and he may have even caused it to fall. >> i had to get inside. to get into the truck. and when i did, it tipped. it fell over. >> and then he pushed a little more. that is when he admitted that he left his son to die. >> the brutal truth is you did kill him? whatever your intent was -- the action you took caused the truck to fall on him. >> yeah. >> the inaction of leaving him

there. >> contributed or whatever. >> so he wasn't painting himself as a cold calculated killer? >> no. he thought it was a better picture to say i accidentally caused this thing to fall and walked away and left him to die on the floor. >> you're under arrest. i think you knew that was coming. >> karl karlsen was charged with second-degree murder. not long after that, he got a lawyer. when they came to court, karl used a walker claiming old injuries were getting the best of him. his attorney said police coerced karl and the cindy tapes violated spousal privilege, but the judge denied the defense motion to suppress and the trial was set for november 6, 2013. all these years, mike had misgivings. his worst fear was cemented. that his own brother was a killer and now he had a new

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andrea canning (voiceover): in the winter of 2012, as the seneca county district attorney was preparing nein the winter of 2012 as the seneca county district attorney was preparing to prosecute karl karlsen for the murder of his son, levi. new york investigators had become deeply interested in that long ago california fire that killed levi's mother, christina. and they were suspicious about karlsen's behavior that day. and they were certain karl killed christina. jeff arnold was the new york state investigator. he thought so too. why did you take such an interest in christina's death when you're here in new york state? that case is in california. >> it became personal to me because she's just a great human being who had everything to look forward to in life. >> investigator arnold was

asked to help out early in the karlsen investigation and took a particular interest in christina and the fire that killed her. >> just imagine yourself you're in this bathroom taking a bath and you smell smoke. it's coming through your door and there is an inferno sitting outside the door and you would turn to the only window in the bathroom and it is covered with a sheet of plywood. >> investigator arnold said pretty much everything karl karlsen has ever said about the fire is a lie, beginning with the care seen that fueled it. >> he said that the care seen got spilled in the house on sunday. >> and that was a few days before the fire. but the california arson investigator found carpet stains that showed a second care seen spill that happened moments before the fire started. investigator arnold said that could only mean one thing. >> karl poured the kerosene all over the clothes and all over the floor and ignited it within

seconds after pouring it. >> back in 1991, karlsen told law enforcement it could have been a dryer, a heater, or a utility light that touched off the blaze. >> none of these happened. >> arnold learned the arson investigator could find no accidental ignition source. the conclusion? the fire was deliberately set. and the coroner's report said christina died of smoke inhalation as opposed to burns, raising the question didn't karlsen have time to save his wife? >> he's standing on the porch within a foot or two from this plywood covered window where christina is in dire need of his help. he doesn't even reach for one tool. >> reporter: arnold knew christina's family had always wandered about that window and about some other things that happened after she died.

>> she said i heard mommy calling for daddy, but daddy just drove away. and so within an hour, you know, i'm hearing my niece telling me hey mom was alive when he drove away. >> just four days after the fire, karl karlsen abruptly left california with his three kids. aaron, katie, and levi. sources in california told us once karlsen was back in new york, investigators begged their bosses to let them follow him there for questioning, but they were told no. the county couldn't afford it. >> the investigators wanted to go to new york, they would not let them spend the money. >> just weeks after they left, collette learned that karl had taken out a $200,000 insurance policy on christina's life. and the policy paid off. collette agrees that karlsen killed christina for the same

reason he killed levi, money. two decades after christina's death, as karl karlsen dueled with detectives in the seneca county interrogation room, he suddenly had to face questions about that long ago fire from a well-prepared jeff arnold. >> and they were telling me about the fire with your first wife. >> arnold was looking for inconsistencies, lies, and he asked karlsen about the window. >> and what is it that you ordered up the days before? >> months before. >> months before? >> months before. we have a witness of the house. and on the 31st of december, one day part of the fire and that window was not boarded up. >> karlsen told arnold he suffered awful injuries as he rescued his children and that the fire was so intense he

couldn't save christina. >> what happened when i broke the window, i got hit by a fireball and burn my eyelids together and burned the skin off my face, burned my mustache. >> did you go to the hospital? >> oh yeah. >> what hospital did you go to? >> i don't even know. >> arnold had evidence that karl escaped the fire with only a small burn. after he listened to karl talk about the fire, the window, and the rescue of his children, he fired back. >> your wife is in a boarded up room and you hear her calling your name 600 feet away. >> it wasn't calling, it was screaming. >> screaming your name. yet you're blown off the porch, open your eyes, your son is uninjured with this explosion that just took place without a mark on him to take him out of the house, run around, and you

save your two daughters. and with no attempt to board up the home? >> by that time the fire was all the way around the house. what was i going to do? >> karlsen insisted his first wife's death was a tragic accident. that was the same thing he was saying about levi's death. on november 6, 2013, the very day his trial in levi's case was suppose to begin, he surprised nearly everyone and took a plea. >> karl karlsen plead guilty to murder in the second degree in the county of seneca circuit court. taking responsibility for the death of his son, levi. >> it's depraved in murder. >> barry porsche, the seneca county d.a. said karlsen would be given the minimum sentence, 15 years to life. at the same news conference, levi's sister thanked the investigation team. but then erin turned to the tragedy that shattered her childhood and changed her family forever.

>> we've been waiting just about 24 years now for some closure for things that transpired in california. you know, things that i will never be able to forget. things my family will never be able to overcome. >> it appeared someone was listening. in 2014, karl karlsen was charged with first-degree murder in the 1991 death of his wife, christina. he was extradited to calaveras county in california, where he pleaded not guilty. and then in january 2020, the case went to trial. the prosecution made the case that karlsen killed christina for the same reasons he killed levi. >> the life insurance? life insurance for $200,000. >> just three weeks after karl took out that policy, christina was dead. this was his plan, the d.a. said. this was karlsen's deadly m.o. but now it was the defense's turn to fight back. karl's attorneys told jurors

they couldn't draw any conclusions based on karl's guilty plea in levi's death. >> does karl karlsen deserve a fair trial? some people would say he admitted to killing his son in new york. he doesn't deserve a fair trial. and to that i would say if you believe that today based just on that fact, you have an obligation to let the court know you can't be fair. >> and no it was up to the jurors. deliberations lasted two days. and then the verdict came in. >> we, the jury, find the defendant, karl karlsen guilty of murder in the first degree. inside the courtroom, christina's family clung to each other in relief. her sister was there too. >> when they read it, it was a

good moment. >> karl karlsen showed little emotions as he was let out of court. he was later sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. 29 years after a fire took christina karlsen's life, her family finally has answers. but even time they say doesn't heal all wounds. >> i don't think you could put a time when you would miss someone the most. the memories are good. i still have those pictures in my home. i'm not going to take them down. she's in my bedroom at all times. >> that's all for this edition of dateline. i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching. hello, i am andrea canning and this is dateline. >> i didn't se