advocate for her. he understands. >> he told you that? >> he did. >> we are happy he cannot hurt anyone else. we miss our mom. that courtroom was full of so many people who loved my mom. >> you feel you got justice? >> there is justice for my mom today. >> martin macneill was sentenced 17 years to life but would not serve the time in full. april 2070, martin died by suicide. a dark ending for the story of a family that began with so much hope. >> that is all for this edition of dateline. i am craig melvin. thank you for watching. u for w ( this sunday, pressure campaign. just four months to election day, a defiant president biden vows he's staying in the race. >> i am running and going to win

again. [ cheers and applause ] >> but as his poll numbers plummet and democrats consider vice president harris at the top of the ticket, pressure is building for him to drop out. >> i think it's a legitimate question to say is this an episode or is this a condition? >> he has to show that he can do the job. he does not have a lot of time. >> can the 81-year-old president reassure his party he's still fit to serve? >> i have a cognizance test every day. every single day i have a test. everything i do. >> i'll talk to democratic congressman adam schiff of california. plus, power surge. the supreme court rules former presidents have immunity for all official acts, delaying donald trump's election interference case and postponing his sentencing in the new york hush money case. >> if you don't have immunity you just have a ceremonial president. >> what would it mean for a potential second trump term?

>> i know i'll respect the legalities for the three and a half years, and now any president, including donald trump, will not be free to ignore the law. >> i'll talk to republican senator j.d. vance of ohio, a potential trump running mate. joining me for insight and analysis are nbc news white house correspondent mike memoli. amy walter, editor in chief of the cooke political report. former congresswoman murphy, and matt gorman. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> announcer: from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history, this is "meet the press" with kristen welker. good sunday morning. >> president biden is in an all-out effort to revive his candidacy after that debate performance last week that raised questions about whether he's capable of beating donald trump and serving another four years in office. one veteran democrat tells nbc

news, opinions are hardening in many quarters that action has to be taken, and that action is a different nominee. both democratic leader hakeem jeffries and mark warner are convening groups of their colleagues to discuss a path forward and a growing number of congressional democrats have called on president biden to step aside. >> mr. president, please look at what's happened, recognize that the reality out there may not be the same thing you're hearing from the circle of your closest friends and family, and consider putting our country first. >> the campaign has been very, i think, arrogant in their response. we want to know what their plan is to win this elections and turn these numbers around. if they don't have a plan, we have to move in a different direction. >> it's like talking to a loved one about a tough situation. how do you tell that person you can't do this anymore? >> the decision of whether mr. biden can stay in the race may come down to raw data.

in a poll, former president trump has opened up a six-point lead among registered voters, the widest gap in the survey since 2021. mr. trump leads by nine points among registered voters in a sienna college poll, and his largest lead since 2015. and vice president harris performs slightly better than a cnn poll. within the margin of error, but a bloomberg morning poll shows a key race in battleground states and now an increasing number of big key democratic donors are calling on president biden to drop out. >> the lifeblood to a campaign in politics, the lifeblood is money. >> i talked to a bunch of big donors, and they're moving all their money to congress and the senate. i mean, i cannot believe we're in this situation. >> but the president has been defiant. he is not dropping out. on the trail in wisconsin and in an exclusive interview with abc's george stephanopoulos, president biden insisted only

the lord almighty could make him change his mind. >> if the lord almighty said joe, get out of the race, and the lord almighty is not coming down. >> i agree that the lord almighty is not coming down, but if you are told reliably, from your allies, from your friends and supporters in the democratic party in the house and the senate that they're concerned that you'll lose the house and the senate if you stay in, what are you going to do? >> i'm not going to answer that question. it's not going to happen. >> the interview did not calm the widespread panic throughout the party. former obama senior adviser axelrod said president biden is proud of his record, but he is dangerously out of touch with the concerns people have about his capacities. some democrats have expressed frustration that the president has refused to commit to taking a cognitive test. >> have you had specific cognitive tests and a neurologist and specialist do the examination? >> no.

no one said i had to. they said i'm good. >> would you be willing to undergo an independent medical evaluation that included neurological and cognitive tests and release the results to the american people? >> look, i have a cognitive test every single day. every day i've had tests. everything i do. >> the answer right now is, no, you don't want to do it. >> no, i've already done it. >> on monday the supreme court gave former president donald trump a monumental victory granting him sweeping immunity over prosecution in an extraordinary expansion of executive power. aiming to capitalize on that, the biden campaign is saying the decision is added proof that mr. trump is more dangerous in the second term. >> if you stay and trump is elected and everything comes to pass, how will you feel in jan? >> as long as i gave it my all,

and i did as good a job as i could do, that's what this is about. >> joining me now is adam schiff of california, a candidate for senate. congressman schiff, welcome back to "meet the press." thank you for being here. >> great to be here. >> it is great to have you here. i want to get your gut reaction from friday night. the president trying to turn the page. based on what you saw, do you think he is still the strongest candidate to beat former president trump? >> ultimately, this is a decision president biden will have to make and president biden alone, but i would say this, he has been an extraordinary president. he has created millions and millions of jobs. he has expanded and strengthened our nato alliances and brought back manufacturing in this country and brought about the most aggressive attack on climate challenge change /* /* change. he's done more in one term than most presidents do no matter what they get, and he's running

against someone who is a pathological liar. someone who ran the country into the ground. not only someone who is a pathological liar, but is immoral, indecent and unfit for office, but the performance on the debate stage i think rightfully raised questions among the american people about whether the president has the vigor to defeat donald trump, and this is an existential race. given joe biden's incredible record, given donald trump's terrible record, he should be mopping the floor with donald trump. joe biden's running against a criminal. it should not be even close and there's only one reason it is close, and that's the president's age, and what i would say, kristen, what i would advise the president is seek out the opinions of people you trust. he's obviously talked to his family about this and that's important, but he should seek out people with some distance and objectivity. he should seek pollsters who are not his own pollsters.

he should take a moment to make the best informed judgment and if the judgment is run and then run hard and beat that s.o.b. >> congressman, you watched that interview on friday, and a lot of democrats said it is fine. he certainly seemed stronger and more robust than during the debate, but it didn't put concerns to rest. are you confident he can beat donald trump or do you think he should drop out of the race? >> the interview didn't put concerns to rest. no single interview is going to do that, and what i do think the president needs to decide is can he put those concerns aside and can he demonstrate to the american people that what happened on the stage was an aberration and he can bee donald trump given the supreme court decision now making trump a dictator and a king, it is all the more important, but here's the thing. i think if the president takes the time to consult people and

has an open mind about this, he will do what joe biden always does which is he will make the right decision, and he will make the decision in the best interest of the country and i'm confident that's what he'll do here. >> you heard nancy pelosi say it was legitimate to ask if it's an episode or a condition. >> president biden refused to take a cognitive test. >> do you think he should take a cognitive test? >> i would be happy if both the president and donald trump -- >> so that's a yes? you think they he /* he should take a cognitive test? >> i think they both should be willing to take a test. i think frankly a test would show donald trump has a serious illness of one kind or another, but ultimately the decision will come down to what joe biden thinks is best and if his decision is to run, then run hard and beat that s.o.b., or if his decision is to pass the torch, then the president should do everything in his power to make the other candidate successful. >> let me ask you about next

steps because obviously there are going to be meetings on capitol hill, leader jeffries and mark warner. are democrats in trouble with joe biden at the top of the ticket? >> look, there are concerns on down ballot races. >> is he dragging down down ballot races? >> at present, the down ballot races are all ahead. they are running well ahead of the president, but you can only run so far ahead of the president, and so obviously joe biden will need to consider for his own sake and his own legacy can he beat donald trump, he's the best to beat donald trump, but also that the profound impact of this decision and maybe the most important of his presidency will have on the house, on the senate, on the future of the country. >> you know, congressman, when i talk to democrats, one of the exchanges that frustrated me the most from that interview on friday was when he was asked what happens if you lose.

president biden said it's about whether he gave it his all. is that what it's about? is that answer satisfying to you? >> no, that is the answer that most concerned me, as well. this is not just about whether he gave it the best college try, but rather whether he made the right decision to run or pass the torch. that is the most important decision for him to make right now. this is about whether this country remains a democracy and whether we veer off into some kind of pseudodictatorship. everything is riding on this, and i know people feel an urgency. i feel an urgency, but i would tell the president slow down and take the time to make the right decision here that's best for the country. >> you laid out the stakes right before the debate. you noted that the country is divided. this would be a close election as it was in 2020. i want to play a little bit of what you said. >> you can't discount the chance that if he loses again, when he

loses again that he will go to even greater lengths to try to overturn the results. >> the only remedy, recommend really, is the one in all of our hands, and that is to make sure that joe biden wins overwhelmingly, that this is not even close. >> the only remedy, really is the one in all of our hands and that is to make sure that joe biden wins overwhelmingly, that this is not close. >> congressman, overwhelmingly, can president biden win overwhelmingly by any stretch at this point? >> either he has to win overwhelmingly or he has to pass the torch to someone who can. what the supreme court did in that decision is give the next occupant of that office whether joe biden or anyone else, nearly dictatorial power. >> i want to ask you about that, but let me quickly ask you about the vice president. you saw one polling. polls are doing better against former president trump. do you think she's a stronger candidate to take on donald trump? >> i think the vice president would be a phenomenal president. i think she has the experience, the judgment, and the leadership

ability to be an overwhelmingly great president. >> could she win overwhelmingly? >> i think she could win overwhelmingly, but before we make a decision about who else it would be, the president needs to make a decision about him. i don't think it's good for the party to get into the debate if not him, then whom? let's focus on the fundamental decision. >> i want to get into immunity. how quickly does he need to make it? the next week? next ten days? >> it needs to be made, frankly, but more importantly, the speed is about getting it right. >> in the past, mr. trump has accused you personally of fraud and treason. he's called for members of the january 6th committee to be indicted, as you know. are you personally concerned about the former president's threats against you should he be re-elected? >> of course. i think anyone who is on his enemies list should be concerned? >> what scares you most? what concerns you the most? >> what concerns me the most is what the court just did was to basically tell donald trump you can do anything through the justice department.

you can do anything through the military. these are core responsibilities of the president of the united states. you will have unquestioned immunity for whatever you do and even outside of that you will have such a strong presumption of immunity as to be irrebuttable. donald trump already had very few guardrails. all of the people of stature that secretary mattis has noticed, he drove out and replaced him with utter sycophants. he will start with utter sycophants and no guardrails who so ever. he talked about bringing liz cheney before military tribunal. if there is anything to show the american people that he's unfit to be president is statements like this. >> given the high stakes should president biden drop out and pass the torch to vice president kamala harris or someone else who you believe can win overwhelmingly? >> i think joe biden should take the time and talk to people outside of his immediate circle, people he respects, people with

objectivity, and make the right decision for the country, and i'm confident joe biden has made the decision in the best interest of the country, and it is the fundamental distinction between he and donald trump. donald trump you can always count on to do what's best for donald trump and joe biden will do what's best for the country. >> congressman, thank you for join us and good to have you in studio. when we come back, republican senator j.d. vance of ohio, a powe tenle chal trump running mate joins me next. l tr running mate joins me next

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welcome back. in a landma welcome back. in a landmark decision this week the supreme court ruled former presidents have immunity from their official acts dealing a blow to the special council's 2020 election interference case. chief justice john roberts writing for the majority, quote, the president is not above the law, but under our system of separated powers, the president may not be prosecuted for exercising his core,

constitutional powers. in a scathing dissent, justice sonia sotomayor wrote the ruling effectively creates a law-free zone around the presidency writing in every use of official power the president is now a king above the law. joining me now is senator j.d. vance, top finalist to be former president trump's running mate. senator vance, welcome back to "meet the press." >> good morning. thanks for having me. >> thank you so much for being here. i want to talk to you about the immunity ruling and the implications. this is what donald trump said last year about wanting to target his political opponents. take a listen. >> i will appoint a real special prosecutor to go after the most corrupt president in the history of the united states of america, joe biden, and the entire biden crime family. >> senator, if former president trump were to win, if you were to be his vice president, would you support him appointing a special prosecutor to go after

his political enemies, the bidens? >> well, first of all, kristen, i find it interesting how much the media and the democrats have lost their mind over this particular quote. donald trump is talking about appointing a special prosecutor to investigate joe biden for wrongdoing. joe biden has done exactly that for the last few years and has done far more in addition to engage in political opposition. i think what donald trump is simply saying is we ought to investigate the prior administration. there are many instances of wrongdoing, and the house oversight committee has identified a number of corrupt business transactions that may or may not be criminal and you have to investigate to find out. donald trump is saying let's do the basic work of wrongdoing is a totally reasonable thing for him to do and frankly the biden administration has done far worse.

so if you think what he's proposing is a threat to our democracy, it isn't a -- >> just to be clear. joe biden didn't appoint a special prosecutor. the attorney general did that. trump was indicted by grand juries and was found guilty by a jury of his peers in new york. can we go back to the core question here? would you support him taking such an action? it sounds like you're saying, yes, you would. >> i would support investigating prior wrongdoing, absolute. that's what you have to have in a system of law and order, but joe biden appointed the attorney general merrick garland, who of course, answers to joe biden, can be fired by joe biden. so the idea that the biden administration has nothing to do with the appointment of the special prosecutor, i think, completely betrays an understanding -- misunderstanding of how the system works and of course, kristen, we have to make this point, kristen that the prosecution of donald trump in new york which now has fundamentally been thrown in doubt by this immunity case it was one of the main guise was

a department of justice official of the biden administration who jumped ship to join the local prosecution's office, go after donald trump. >> and yet the doj -- >> the legitimacy of the prosecution. that's a problem. >> that was all of the time, people are appointed from washington, the doj told congress -- >> kristen, it happens -- are you really saying, kristen, it happens all the time that the number -- >> let me just finish this. it reviewed all communications since biden took office and found no contact between federal prosecutors and those involved with that case in new york. can you stick to the substance of the question though? let me just ask because you are -- i just want to stick with this line of theory that you are laying out, which is you are saying it's not okay for joe biden to weaponize the justice department. if it's not okay for joe biden to weaponize the justice department, as you say, which

there's no evidence of that, why is it okay for donald trump to do that? >> well, kristen, first of all, you said that it happens all the time, that the numb bethree person in the department of justice jumped ship to join the prosecution's office to go after the political opponent? i don't think that's ever happened in the history of american democracy and i don't think we should legitimize it. if donald trump's attorney general had his number two or number three jump ship to a local prosecutor's office in ohio or wisconsin and that person went after donald trump's political opposition, that's a different conversation. all he's suggesting is that we should investigate credible arguments of wrongdoing. that's all donald trump is saying. that is not a threat to democracy. that's merely reinforcing our system of law and government. >> bottom line, you are okay for donald trump appointing a 6 special prosecutor to go after his political enemies, it sounds like you're saying yes. >> let me move on to my next question. i want to talk about the heritage foundation.

it's a conservative think tank in washington. it shapes the agenda they would like to see in a trump second term. they said this last week. take a look. >> we're in the process of taking this country back. no one in the audience should be disparaged. we are encouraged by what happened yesterday. the second revolution will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be. >> do you support those calls for a revolution and would political violence ever be justified? >> of course, political violence is never justified, kristen. you'd have to ask the president of the heritage foundation to defend his remarks, if you'd like to do that. look, the heritage foundation does a lot of good work and it does a lot of good things i disagree with and a lot of things that i agree with. it works with public policy, and

it's an important part of how d.c. functions and operates. we'll continue to have conversations with a whole host of think tanks to the right and the left as we craft public policy. that's the way the city works and again, i'm not going to be the person who serve it is the spokesperson for the heritage foundation. i don't have any affiliation. >> it sounds like you're distancing yourself from those comments, that talk of political violence. >> look, kristen, i certainly don't think political violence is justified. that's certainly not what i think kevin roberts was saying to begin with, but have him on your program to defend what he said, and i think that's the best thing to do. >> let me ask you specifically about project 2025 for our viewers so that they know. it's basically a policy blueprint for a second trump presidency supported by the heritage foundation and other conservative groups. the biden campaign has said project '25, quote, should scare every single american. it would give trump limitless power over our daily lives. among the things they are calling for is reversing approval of the abortion pill

mifepristone, but donald trump said he supports access to that pill, actually. do you support access to abortion medication as donald trump does? >> well, kristen -- you asked about project 2025, and i want to be clear here that trump explicitly has said his own transition team runs the trump transition and will run the trump administration. again, you have a whole host of organizations, some of which have god ideas, some of which have bad ideas, and some of which have both, and the trump administration will talk to both as it's crafting an agenda to lower inflation and to bring peace and prosperity back to the world, and that's the whole reason why he and so many others are trying to re-elect donald trump is because the agenda

actually worked. it was his agenda, and i think it will work again for the american people. on the question of the abortion pill. what so many of us have said is look, we certainly -- the supreme court made a decision saying that the american people should have access to that medication. donald trump has supported that opinion. i support that opinion. i think it's important to say that we actually have to have an important conversation in this country about what our abortion policy should be. donald trump is the pragmatic leader here. he's saying most abortion policies will be decided by the states. we want to make it easier and more affordable for young women and parents to have families to begin with. we want to lower housing costs, eliminate the surprise medical bills that so many have after having a baby, and that's the republican approach to this issue. and meanwhile, joe biden wants taxpayer-funded abortions up to the moment of birth. that is crazy to me that democrats frame this as republicans -- >> let me finish, kristen. they frame democrats as being reasonable and pragmatic when in reality republicans are the ones trying to find common ground here. >> as you know abortions, very few abortions take place later in pregnancy almost always because there is a medical emergency. i know trump is trying to distance himself from project 2025, but we have to point out

that a number of people who are involved with it are former trump officials, ben carson, peter navarro, ross vought, and others, but just to be clear, you support mifepristone being accessible? >> yes, kristen, i do, but on the project 2025 issue what the media and democrats are trying to do is attach the most unpopular elements to the trump administration. it's a 900-page document. i guarantee there are things trump likes and dislikes about that 900-page document, but he is the person who will determine the agenda to the next administration. all he said very explicitly is i am in charge of the next administration because i'm the person running for president and it's important to make that clarification. >> let me ask you something that caught our eye. this was something that you wrote in "the new york times" op ed in 2017 about former president barack obama. you criticized his policies, but also said, quote, it is one of the great failures of recent political history that the republican party was too often

unable to disconnect legitimate political disagreements from the fact that the president himself is an admirable man. at a pivotal time in my life barack obama gave me hope that a boy who grew up like me, he could still achieve the most important of my dreams. for that, you write, i will miss him, and and /* the example he set. you wrote that just days before donald trump was in inaugurated. do you still consider barack obama to be an admirable man who you miss? >> well, you know, i grew up in a broken family, kristen. i just wanted to be a good husband and dad and certainly barack obama despite my many political disagreements with him, he's clearly a good husband and a father. i'd say the same thing about donald trump whose children love him and this is the thing the media often misses about donald trump is how devoted he is to his family, to his grandchildren, and how his

messaging and his pro-life view is we ought to make it easier for more american families to have those thriving children and thriving families. so certainly, i think we've been blessed with good examples throughout our country and yes, absolutely was barack obama a good president? no. was he a good husband and father? yes. >> he's still an admirable man? >> that's just what i said, kristen. >> all right. i have to ask you about veep stakes. have you gotten the call from donald trump? has he asked you to be his running mate? >> i've not gotten the call, kristen and i'll certainly maybe not the first person that i'd let know if that happened, but we'll let the media know if i ever get that call, but most importantly, kristen, we're just trying to work to elect donald trump and whoever the vice president is, it's the leadership style that works for the american people and i think we have to bring that back to the white house, and i'm fighting to try to do that. >> well, here we are about a week before the republican convention. before i let you go, can you say

here and now that unequivocally will accept the results of the 2024 election, no matter what they are? >> so long as it's a free and fair election, kristen, of course, we will. we will use constitutional processes to challenge issues if we think there are issues, but if it's a free and fair election we will do what the constitution requires and we will accept the results and i expect the results to reelect donald trump. >> it was a pre and fair election in 2020 and he took his concerns to court and he lost in court and he has not conceded. do you understand that when you refuse to commit unequivocally, that feeds into people's concerns, skepticism about the nation's electoral process? >> well, kristen, i don't agree with that, actually. i think that feeding into people's concerns about electoral process is that one half of america's political segment won't support legislation to allow illegal aliens to vote and they won't support voting without presenting i.dchld, and i think

you have to present i.d. for anything in this country. to take concerns seriously about election fraud -- >> senator it's already against the law for non-citizens to vote, but just on that very point, when you, when others refuse to say, yes, we will accept the election results do you understand how that undermines people's confidence in the electoral system? >> kristen, what i just said is i don't agree with that. what i think undermines people's confidence in the electoral system is when the media is incurious about obvious examples of problems in our electoral system. i think they've gotten great elections, and things could be better in certain states. i want to make it happen so people have greater confidence in their elections and that's what i will keep doing. >> senator, thank you for being here. please come back if you get that phone call if not beforehand. appreciate it. thank you so much. when we come back, president biden is dismissing his critics and vowing to stay in the race even as pressure grows for him to drop out. the panel is next. race even as

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welcome back. the panel is here. nbc news white house correspondent mike memoli. amy walter, editor in chief of the cook political report. former democratic congressman stephanie murphy of florida, and matt gorman, senior communications adviser for tim scott for america. thank you all for being here on what is ostensibly still a holiday weekend. no holiday for us. mike, i have to start with you. take us inside biden world because you heard from adam schiff there's still a lot of concepty sis. about his ability to beat trump and he's trying to turn the page on the skeptics. >> i covered that rally in wisconsin as i did the week before in north carolina. we all watched that interview with george stephanopoulos.

the tone being set by president biden and others in his circle is one of defiance. they're almost challenging the democratic party to take this nomination away from him. i shared with one senior adviser about the president and they said this will not be decided by members of congress. this will be decided by the voters. they are framing this and we'll hear more about the week ahead about the voters versus the pundits, voters versus the establishment. this is joe biden, 50-year politician, establishment of the democratic party if there ever was one who is running as an insurgent against his party. he's 100% in until he's 100% out. he has to be defiant until he chooses to step aside. >> he has been such a part of the democratic establishment for so long. amy walter, take us inside the numbers and just a reminder at the top of the show i laid out the fact that there has been erosion in the polling and yet there is one poll that shows the battlegrounds are still close. where are we right now in this race? >> well, kristen, you know i love me some poll and i love digging into data, but i want to

step away from it because we have to talk about the fundamentals because sometimes we get caught up in the numbers, and the fundamentals today aren't any different than they were before this debate, and these are two unpopular people running against each other. the candidate who is in the spotlight whose liabilities and flaws are in the spotlight is a candidate who is most likely to lose. joe biden went into that debate with the spotlight on him, he wanted that debate to turn the spotlight back into donald trump. not only did he fail on doing that, but out in the spotlight isn't just on his weaknesses as president and it's not just about immigration or legislation, it's now about whether he could functionally do the job and whether he has the physical and cognitive ability to do that, and that is a very different, fundamental that we've added to this fundamental problem for both candidates in this race, and the one other thing i'll say is the challenge of getting beyond this question because it's not just earlier it was about can you get beyond the

frustration about the border? now it is about him personally and when i see where the media is going to be for the next four months, it is going to be focused on every speech, everyone ter view, any slip he makes is going to be highlighted and talked about. >> absolutely. and, stephanie, amy hits the nail on the head with the level of concern, i think, that democrats have in this moment. take us inside some of your conversations. what are the reality checks and how concerned are they about down ballot races? >> they are far more concerned publicly than they've said publicly. it is a plat-out panic at this point. if the biden administration says it is up to the voters, three-quarters of the voters in a very divided america agree on one thing, and it's that he doesn't have the mental acuity to go forward. and the democratic caucus agrees that trump 2.0 would be

dangerous to democracy, and now they're also looking at the potential there are going to be significant headwinds for a down blot, and if we can't hold the house or the senate with the supreme court rulings that expand the president's powers, this puts democracy in a really precarious place. and if you believe that, it's reasonable for you to ask the president to really consider whether or not he is the best candidate and to really consider the consequences of staying at the top of the ticket on the down ballot races. >> that's really the disconnect because president and his campaign have argued donald trump is a threat to the democracy every single day, and if those are the stakes, can they risk that? i have to go to you because there is just growing pressure, also for republicans as they watch this unfold, candidate had this post yesterday where he seemed to sarcastically say, joe biden should stay in the race. are republicans worried about

joe biden were to get out if all of a sudden there's an infusion of excitement? >> well, look, if joe biden stays in this race, to amy's point, this race becomes entirely about him, his fitness for office, bar none. if it's kamala, and i don't think it would be anyone other than kamala, then this would be the race we thought we would run two weeks ago. it's the economy, immigration, crime, and she owns all of it. and one of the first questions is what did you know about joe biden's condition, and when did you know it? a lot of the stories are coming out. there have been issues for about a year now, if not more. you're the one person in the government you can't fire you mean to tell me you cannot say anything about it? >> crime is one of the top issues for voters and also at a 50-year low right now. mike, pick up on matt's point. i mean, are there -- what are the conversations happening around the vice president?

>> we've seen the vice president have a much bigger role since the president announced he was running for re-election. we have seen that times ten in the past week, and they've been very deliberate and intentional about having the vice president with the president in some cases and speaking out and very supportive. you have top advisers in the campaign who have been telling donors west wing type scenarios about how michelle obama comes on the ticket. >> there's been a lot of talk about michelle obama. >> the most likely scenario to accept if there is one that it will be the vice president, and there are a lot of democrats who really like the idea of a harris/cooper ticket. two-term governor and 16-year attorney general, and crime is a big issue that can make the rest of the campaign about prosecuting the case. >> adam schiff said yes, he thought the vice president could win overwhelmingly. >> i absolutely agree with matt that she comes in with the same liabilities which biden does which is that she'd have to answer for the administration

and all the issues about about the economy and immigration. the question is can she now as -- because she doesn't have the same challenges that the president does -- change the conversation back to donald trump? can she make this race about donald trump? can she put together not necessarily the pro-harris coalition, but that anti-trump coalition that has been successful, not just in 2020, but in 2018 and in 2022. >> matt, who is the candidate republicans are most afraid of? >> it's a different race whether it's biden or it's harris. >> yeah. >> i mean, i think we look back and republicans remember the disastrous campaigns we had in the democratic primary. the only other effective communicator on complex issues on a lot of different things and look, she certainly would help the democrats, but she owns the border lock, stop and barrel.

>> one of the things i keep thinking about when i think about the vice president potentially running, is donald trump saying in 2020 she had the best announcement. what do you think? do you think she could win overwhelmingly? >> i think we should have the consideration and we shouldn't repeat the mistake which is not to have a real primary. primaries are a way to road test your candidates, and if there is a way to have a real primary, it gives the democratic party an option, and it helps to coalesce around that person post-convention. >> political reporters have been talking for years about wanting to have a real political convention, a brokered convention and every year it gets pushed aside. this may be the one time where this actually happens. not necessarily brokered, but that this conversation, if it's starting, it can't start the day of the convention. it has to start today. >> but then dems get the chance to bring the attention to their bench and to put forward what america wants which is change. >> one last thought, and then we have to go.

>> i may be underestimating up to this point is joe biden gutting this out and he can thank donald trump's playbook. >> we could see it. we wait with bated breadth. stick around, a democratic president with low public approval ratings and a deeply divided country suddenly withdraws from the race. what his hand picked successor said in the summer of 196 8. our "meet the press" minute is next. 6 8. our "meet the press" minute is next who reached their goal and have kept it off for over two years. golo is a completely different approach to losing weight, and it works. with golo, you can reach your goal weight just like these people. create your own success story with golo. visit golo.com to get started today.

welcome back. the

welcome back. the rising democratic pressure on president biden to step aside has echoes of 1968. the last time a president decided not to seek a second term. that president was lyndon johnson. weakened by the vietnam wash johnson had never formally entered the race and powed out five months before the convention. he was replaced on the ticket by his vice president hubert humphrey who won the democratic nomination, but lost the election. it was before the start of the democratic national convention. >> president johnson seems to believe that if he ran again, this country would remain divided and his move toward peace would be suspect. on the "new york post" identification of his and the administration, what do you think that what applied to him doesn't apply to you also? >> because i have not been president, he's had to make the tough decisions and that is president johnson had to call the shots, so to speak, that has

had to face up to the responsibilities of the management of our affairs and the vice president of the united states does not do that. i knew when i became vice president that we only had one president at a time, and that a ought not to act like the president nor should i try to pretend that i am president. i hope i can go to the country, and i say i hope i can go to the country and to unify and to lead this country to good performance through higher standards. i think i can. when we come back, donald trump claims victory after the historic supreme court ruling on presidential immunity. the panel returns next. to duckduckgo on all your devie

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welcome back. the panel is still here. let's talk about the big ruling in the supreme court. stephanie, which basically gave presidents immunity over official actions that they take while in office. you obviously served on the january 6th committee. your committee recommended criminal charges against former president trump. what was your reaction to the

ruling, and, quite frankly, what are the implications, do you think, to this ruling? >> the context for me is my family and i escaped political persecution when i was just a baby, so i know what a government that is unaccountable will do to its citizens, and i sat on the january 6th select committee, and i saw how our institutions were tested. the ruling, the supreme court ruling basically gives the presidency expanded powers and makes accountability through the justice system very difficult. so what that means is that, one, we have to elect presidents with character and values and morals that align with this country, but we also have to, in this particular election, hold the line in the house. the house is now the last place that can hold a president accountable, and that makes this election critically important. >> matt, you know, former president trump is taking a victory lap, obviously, because it means his court cases will be delayed, but democrats are pouncing on this. they are making the case. this is why donald trump would be more dangerous in the second

term and that's the democrats oral argument. how does that factor in at all? >> i can come back with joe biden is that trump has had the best ten days since he was president. you look at the debate of plunging the democratic party into crisis. that was the albatross, the sentencing is off the table for now, at least. the vp will be a positive news maker, and i think he'll stay out of the headlines this week and, look, this, i think, in large part, has been the best run apparatus in the three times he's run for president. >> there's no doubt. >> politically, the discipline is actually quite remarkable. >> the biden team acknowledges it that they really were hoping that he would come and make a story so that the focus could get off the president.

i agree that this should have been a week where we started the roundtable with -- >> right. >> -- the supreme court case, and instead we're ending it, which tells you all you need to know about how difficult it is going to be for a democrat to make this case for the voters. >> kristen, some of the most interesting comments the president made at the rally on friday were about this. he said president trump could be a dictator on day one. we have to politically exile him because of the immunity ruling and he talked about project 2025 and the problem is they were overlooked because of where the focus is. this is what democrats were saying, to your earlier point. the debate was supposed to put the spotlight on trump and it is really only on president biden. >> someone said to me that the immunity ruling is going to be the new dobbs ruling. democrats are going to just keep hammering it. matt, we have to talk a

little veepstakes. >> of course. >> we just talked to senator j.d. vance about a range of different topics including this immunity issue. we know that he is on the short list. we know this decision has to come soon. senator vance said no, he hasn't gotten that call from former president trump yet. where do you see this heading? >> vance did a great job this morning. he'd be a formidable candidate, and one thing we haven't talked about is he has a military background and the only person with the nominees with the military background and if biden will make the case about trump and veterans that he has in the debate and since, vance could be an effective rebuttal for that and isn't afraid to be on sunday show, it's impressive. >> he's viewed as the future of the maga movement. i guess the question is can he appeal to independents, to moderate voters? can he win those critical voters who are going to be necessary to ultimately win the white house? >> i thought he was very good on your interview with him. he makes some of the more extreme policy positions that he is espousing seem normal because of the way he delivers it, and i think he fits the part for what donald trump looks for in a vice president.

he -- he looks the part. >> do democrats fear a trump-vance ticket, do you think? >> i think they are so focused on trying to figure out who their ticket's going to be right now. >> fair point. that's a fair point. amy, at ease. >> i think that for trump, so much of this is -- as we talked about, the look. also, it's sort of softening donald trump, or at the very least, someone who can come in and look like they can keep him in line, not worrying about he's going off track and this is the person who can do that. that's where doug burgum, i think, because of how low key he is. he's not getting in fights with anybody. he's coming from a very different perspective in that

way. he could be a better pick. >> convention is one week away. mike memoli, quickly. how long -- one-word answer -- will it take before president biden makes a decision? >> this is a consequential week for him. the question is are they themselves hearing it. >> all right. great conversation, you guys. that is all for today. happy july fourth weekend. thank you so much for watching. we'll be back next week because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." ♪♪ ♪♪ was this a bad episode or more of a serious condition? >> it's a bad