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thank you for watching, it is great to be back with you. and on that note, i wish you a very good night. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late. i'll see you at the end of tomorrow. thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. rachel has the night off xishgs hope you had a great and restful fourth of july weekend, even though it was a little weird this weekend. hard to rejoin normal life after a long weekend. hard to return to work after a little time away, especially if you know that there's some project or issue at work that you're going to have to deal with as soon as you get back. for instance, say you're a democratic lawmaker returning to capitol hill today for the first time since president biden's debate performance sent the democratic party into a panic. here's nbc news audio of the moment that the senate democratic leader, chuck schumer, arrived at capitol hill this afternoon. you'll note that he doesn't even let the waiting reporter get

their fist question out. >> [ inaudible ] >> as i said before -- >> do you have 100% committed support of him running for president? >> thank you, got to go. the senate democratic leader there barely getting his foot back in the door of his office before having to answer questions about his commitment to joe biden as the democratic presidential nominee. no small thing right now to have the highest ranking democrat on capitol hill publicly standing behind the president's candidacy. if it were not clear already, it became clear today that joe biden plans not just to disagree with those in the party calling for him to step aside but to fight them. in a letter to congressional democrats this morning, the president said not only that he is firmly committed to staying

in the race, he implied that fellow democrats urging him to get out are betraying the millions of voter who is cast ballots for him in the primaries that and that their public questioning of his fitness for the campaign is helping donald trump. in a phone interview with morning joe on this network this morning, biden claimed the pressure to step aside is coming from elites while the rank and file of the party who want him to stay in. and he dared any democrat who wants him not to run to challenge him at the democratic convention next month. at least nine house democrats have now said biden should drop out of the race. and tonight the armed services committee chair adam smith called publicly for biden to step aside after it was widely reported that smith had said the same in a private call with top house democrats yesterday. but now that lawmakers are back together in person on capitol hill, these discussions will

presumably only get more intense. the house democratic leader, hakeem jeffries, is gathering tomorrow morning with his caucus at democratic party headquarters for a meeting where cellphones will reportedly not be permitted. presumably in an attempt to prevent leaks of whatever transpires. senate democrats, some of whom have expressed concerns about biden's ability to win but none of whom have called on biden to drop out, are also meeting tomorrow. but for his part, president biden has reportedly been more aggressively reaching out to nervous party members. he reportedly told democratic donors on a call today we're done talking about the debate. and this week will be an opportunity to show don't tell biden's ability to do the job. he's hosting a major nato summit in washington starting tomorrow and on thursday he will hold a solo press conference. as nato marks its 75th anniversary, biden will host nato partners who are deeply worried about the prospect of

trump being reelected as they fully expect a second term president trump would abandon ukraine and leave europe to face an aggressive russia alone. not to mention europe's own fears about its own resurgent far right. but the nato coalition that president biden is hosting this week has gone through some seismic changes of its own in just the last few days. and the way it happened could be something of a preview for how democrats in america go about solving their dilemma here. the uk has a brand new center left leader after 14 years of conservative rule. tomorrow nato summit -- tomorrow's nato summit will be prime minister keer starmer's first overseas trip since taking office on friday. and france's president, emmanuel macron, will arrive fresh off elections in which french voters prevented the far right from taking power. huge crowds poured into the streets in france yesterday to

celebrate the unexpected victory of a left wing coalition that successfully blocked what had been expected to be a far right wing route. the coalition of left wing parties which have deep political and idealogical disagreements with each other came together in just days. they presented themselves as a united front, a dam, they called it, that would hold back the surging far right, and french voters in a shock result went out and gave that united coalition the biggest share of the vote. one french news station showed a split screen of the reaction. on the left, supporters of the underdog left wing coalition, on the right, supporters of the right wing party who expected to win. ouch. the french assembly is now split between the right wing party, president macron's centrists, and this new coalition of left wing parties that until recently hated each other.

this front page today in france sums it up as the headline reads and now what do we do? the rapid move to form a coalition in the face of a potential electoral disaster, it worked. the far right was stopped. the most immediate threat has at least for now been neutralized. needless to say, our political system works very differently. the french national election lasted a few weeks. our election season lasts -- and here once the ticket is set the two names at the top slug it out until november. at least that's how it usually goes. as joe biden digs in against critics within his own party, we're seeing rapid coalition building among democrats. not just the usual coalition building, the democratic party does to push its candidates over the top in the general election, like the obama coalitions of 2008 and 2012 and the biden coalition of 2020, but coalition building to determine who the

candidate at the top is. and in this case, the question of whether biden stays or goes. for the past week some top democratic donors have been trying to pull together a group of house democratic lawmakers to make the case for biden to leave the race, even try to incentivize more lawmakers to join the club by fundraising for lay lawmaker who is say he should go. that effort appears to have been called off. but now another side is starting to speak loudly in favor of biden staying in. politico's jonathan martin reports today that these voices are coming from the parts of the democratic coalition that have always backed biden most strongly, the black community and labor unions. biden is, quote, counting on the support of african american democrats and his union allies as his last line of defense. it's a playbook biden has turned

to in the past, portraying his detractors as mostly elite white liberals who are out of step with the more diverse and working class grassroots of the party. that's what propelled his nomination after a string of setbacks in 2020. biden and his lieutenants are clearly counting on the results being the same in 2024 as it has been in every one of their modern races, the donor class may have their preference, but it's older black women in church pews who will decide the nominee, thank you very much. end quote. and sure enough, there was biden yesterday at a black church in swing state pennsylvania. next week he will address the naacp conference in las vegas. biden's campaign co-chair, frederick richmond, noted to politico that not one african american member of congress has called on the president to leave the race. this morning the chair of the congressional black caucus released a statement backing biden. and biden reportedly called into a special meeting of the caucus this evening, i'll be able to drop it reportedly in just a

moment when i speak to somebody who was involved in that. and speaking at essence fest in new orleans, maxine waters issued a rousing defense of the sitting president. >> we're now at a point in time where people are talking about biden is too old. hell, i'm older than biden. now, i want to tell you no matter what anybody says, it ain't going to be no other democratic candidate. it's going to be biden. we better know it. >> so that's the first part of the pro-biden coalition's message, biden stays. period. there's a second part to that message, according to politico, biden stays, but if he goes, the replacement has to be vice president kamala harris. in fact, the vice president was at that same gathering in new orleans where maxine waters

jumped to joe biden's defense. and though harris herself mentioned nothing, other black leaders in attendance were clear, it's biden, but if it's not, it's harris. joining me now is the congresswoman maxine waters of the great state of california. she just got off that call that president biden held with the members of the congressional black caucus this evening. congresswoman waters, good to see you. thank you for joining me. i appreciate your time tonight. tell me what you can tell me about that meeting without having to kill me. >> well, yeah, i can't tell you very much. but i want you to know i'm not going to talk about what happened in the meeting, but i do want to tell you how strongly i feel about support for biden, how i believe that this democratic party will eventually come together. we don't have that many members who are talking about he should step down. don't forget, there are 213

democrats, and you talk about about nine members. and i don't think we have a long way to go. we're not really divided. and so i am hopeful. and i do believe that we're going to be fine. and i do believe that biden is competent and capable of being and continuing to be the president of the united states of america. and so i'm going to speak loudly and clearly, and i'm going to get on the road and i'm going to go into communities and tell the story about what he has done and how he has accomplished so much since he's been the president of the united states of america. and the black community knows that. they know it's about the hbcus that have been supportive. they understand that we have a black woman vice president, a black woman that was put on the supreme court. we understand what he's done with medicare and with healthcare and the fact that he has placed a cap on how much you

pay for diabetes medicine like insulin, et cetera, et cetera. and so we have a lot to talk about. we've got -- we've got to talk about jobs and the fact that we have the lowest unemployment rate that we have had in years. we have a lot not only to talk about but we trust him. we believe in him. he's a man of character. he's a man who's defined himself, and of course, that's what we need against somebody like trump who has defined himself and we don't like who he is, what he has done, what he stands for, and the lies that he tells. >> let's discuss the strategy of that for a moment. you talked antd how you can go out and talk about these things, what does the campaign need to do now? joe biden came out and said the conversation's over, that's fine. but for a lot of people it hasn't ended. what's the strategy to convince people on everything you just said to me? >> well, the most important

thing is that everybody's who's going to go out and campaign and vote for joe biden needs to be clear about what he's done and how to articulate that. and that strategy must be developed between the campaign and all of the members of congress, the democratic members who will be working on his behalf. we have to be clear. and we have to make sure that the message is consistent. i don't think that we've been able to articulate clearly how successful this president has been. we've got to do a better job at it. again, we've got to be consistent, and we've got to go places where people are interested but they need to know more. and they need to be able to talk about it in their circles whether it is sororities and fraternities, the lawyers, the churches, et cetera, et cetera. >> congresswoman, even people, some people who have called for

joe biden to step aside have articulated what a strong president he's been for many of the reasons that you just stated. in fact, there seems to be no meaningful dispute about that nor meaningful dispute about the fact that joe biden would be a better president than donald trump, where does the issue of project 2025 and abortion and the crazy stuff that donald trump and his allies say they're going to do. put aside the crazy stuff donald trump actually does and the convictions and all of that, but how do you weigh that into the argument? >> i think we have to balance it. at one point people were saying, oh, all you're talking about is trump, what has biden done? and so i think what we have to do is we have to message both ways. we have to talk about what he's done but don't ever stop talking about trump and what a blatant liar he is, how dangerous he is,

how he's aligned with putin in russia, how this man is against women and having control of their own bodies. we have so much to talk about and help people to understand the danger of having just this honorable human being back in the white house. and so it has to be balanced, it has to be both, and we can do that. but we've got to learn how to do it effectively. >> we are talking about a democratic party that is not the old democratic machine, it's a big tent party with a whole bunch of people. that's why i use the french example, because in france they saw this right wing threat, and a bunch of people who don't often day gree with each other came together and said that is not acceptable, so we're coming together to sort this out. is that a message that democrats in america can take in. >> well, absolutely. here's what i believe. i believe when the president talks about if he doesn't win there's going to be violence in the streets, talks about civil

war, he talks about blood shed. i think it's those kinds of issues that bring people together. because he's talking about not only undermining our democracy but he's talking about destroying it. and then when you connect that with what happened on january 6th and they understand that, yes, you know, he really was in the leadership of that. he really is capable of that kind of violence. he's capable of talking about bloodshed. i think that that brings kind of the right and the left and the independents together because in the final analysis, i think that most people, not the right wing radicals, but most people in this country believe that we should be about protecting and supporting our democracy and when you have people like trump and those who follow him we talk about we might as well get rid of the constitution, i think

that starts to bring people together and to have people thinking about how much danger we could be in if, in fact, we don't deal with what we've been told. it's right before our very eyes. he's racist. he talks about what he's going to do in control of the justice department and on and on. i think those issues must be articulated in ways that people not only understand, they are concerned about the economy and all of that, that's very important. concerned about inflation, and we know what that's all about, but we've got to tell both stories. and we've got to do it in a way that will bring people together. >> congresswoman, i thank you for your time tonight. i can stretch it out a little bit if you want to change your mind and tell me what happened in that meeting. >> you know i'm not going to do that. thanks for trying. >> worst trying, right? nice to see you as always, i appreciate your time tonight. >> thank you. >> let's turn now to david,

former campaign manager for president obama who knows about these kinds of situations and knows about these coalitions. david, i mean, i think we have to face facts. from a strategic perspective, the democratic party is a mess here. donald trump was getting convicted and guys went out and dressed like him outside the court. that's not what the democratic party is right now. it's people who have differences. >> we're not a cult. i think we're having a healthy di cushion. it does need to conclude at a point. i believe still today in the battleground states, which is all that matters in our presidential race, that's the windshield we need to all look out, there are enough voters who are parent of that anti-trump coalition. some of those are pro-biden, some are pro-democrat, some are going to be aligned with us simply because they don't want to sew a return of donald trump. now, i think we have to be realistic about where the race is. this time four years ago joe biden led, you know, three to

five points in states. he's trailing by that and maybe a little bit more. so if the race were held today, and it's not, i think we would lose the white house. we'd probably also lose the senate and the house, republican trifecta. we've got time to turn that around, because again, i think there's a majority of voters out there, enough to win. ballots start going out 80, 90 days from now in battleground states. the debate about whether joe biden should be our nominee will continue. you know, i think that, you know, right now it's clear he has no intention of leaving. until that changes, he's going to be the nominee. the real question is if in fact he's the nominee, and i think you have to argue he's going to be, is how is the race going to change. and i think that has to be prosecuting the case better against trump for sure. i don't think it's much -- yes, elections are important, but --

versus donald trump. that can be built on the record, trump's horrible record, biden's strong record, that's important, but the chief issue is voters. not just those that are criticizing voters but rank and file voters have to feel for confident in biden. he's got to really seize every opportunity, because if that number gets better, i think the race gets better, and i think you can then access that anti-trump coalition that clearly exists out there. >> and do you think that that conversation is happening the right way right now? the what has to happen to convince voters to be more confident -- the reason i ask, i'm not talking about the debate performance, i'm talking about inflation. this administration has done a very good job with getting inflation under control, wages are increasing out of inflation, and yet we see polling numbers that indicate to people that inflation's their biggest problem and they hold joe biden responsible for it. i mean, it's not logical, but it's out there. >> well, listen, i think people

are not going to change their view on their paycheck going less far than they would have liked because it's gotten better for a month or two, but the trajectory map, when barack obama won re-election in 2012, he won with an historically high unemployment rate. but things were getting better. i think voters can tap into that. the reason the biden campaign wanted to have the debate is they were losing heading into that debate so. the problem has become worse. every day matter, the democratic convention matter, the ads being run matters. the next debate, assuming that happens, matters. hopefully joe biden will be out doing town halls with voters and primetime television programs. there's going to be great interest in how he performs. xif he can, i think, perform a little bit better, both in terms of, you know, how he fidzically and verbally performs but also prosecuting that case against

trump because there is no doubt we know that 2025 agenda that trump is now trying to run away from, that's a tell. you know, donald trump doesn't run away from anything. he's running away from that. >> he's all over it. his fingerprints are all over it. his people have written chapters. his name's in it. >> yeah, so you got to prosecute that case and say this is what you're going to get. by the way, i'm joe biden, i care about average people. this is what i've done to fight inflation. we've got a manufacturing boom across the country. we're going to invest in healthcare. with trump you get the opposite. tens of millions of people kicked off healthcare. he's going to run away from climate change. project 2025 in all its awful glory will be the new law of the land. like this is we have a lot of material, and so that's the other thing. donald trump is a very weak candidate. he was weak in '16 but won in a black swan event. he lost in '20. it's the reason his party had such a miserable '18 and '22 in part, so this is a guy that can

be beat. but he has to be beat. that sounds like a silly thing to say, but as we valuate this question of biden and hopefully this question of how we run again moving forward, it's not enough to give it a good effort, you have to win the fricking race. and again, i think there's enough voters out there to put this together, but the clock is ticking. the biden campaign is strong, great leadership, great interest groups are going to make the case, great members of congress. i think there's a good supporting cast. but what i've learned in presidential races is it comes down to the central characters. in donald trump we have a deeply flawed, very beatable republican nominee. right now the democratic nominee's not performing as we'd like, and if he fixes that then i think we've got a very good shot to hold on to the white house. but right now we're behind in this race, and we're behind significantly in the battleground states. you can change that, but nobody should make a mistake about where we are today.

>> good to see you as always. president biden began the week with a giant event, welcoming world leaders to washington, d.c. the perils and promise, political and otherwise, when the nato summit begins tomorrow. we'll be right back. summit begins tomorrow. we'll be right back. try dawn powerwash dish spray. it removes 99% of grease and grime in half the time. dawn powerwash has 3 cleaning boosters not found in traditional dish soaps that remove food and grease 5x times faster. and, because it cleans so well... you can replace multiple cleaning products for counters, stoves, and even laundry stains. try dawn powerwash dish spray. brand power, helping you buy better.

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tomorrow president biden will deliver remarks commemorating the 75th anniversary of the nato alliance and kicking off the summit in washington, d.c. not only do those remarks present biden with time on the global stage to shore up his image, the summit overall gives biden the chance to do something he didn't do in the debate, make the case for how disastrous a second trump term would be. nato leaders are primed to hear it. in the lead-up to this week's summit, politico and a german newspaper interviewed nearly 50 people to ask them how they're preparing for the potential of a second trump term.

quote, what emerged from this reporting was a picture of a world already bending to trump's will and scrambling to inoculate itself against the disruptions and crises that he might instigate, end quote. one nato diplomat saying, quote, the biggest challenge is we don't know, and i think nobody knows exactly what trump will do, end quote. the job of an incumbent candidate is to offer certainty as a better choice than the unknown, then the nato summit is a great opportunity for joe biden. joining us now, alexander vindman, former director of european affairs. colonel vindman, thank you for being with us. i've heard a lot of nato people talk in the last couple days, officials, including the secretary general, and they're very cautious. they don't want to say out loud that the parts that they're concerned about because if donald trump does become the president of the united states, they're faced with a problem. what's really going on, because you know these folks. >> thanks for having me on.

so it's interesting. the reception for donald trump around the world is not what you would expect. he's actually embraced, but he's embraced by authoritarian regimes and he inspires fear in our allies. it is not the way the world should be. we should not have a presidential election looming in which our adversaries are rallying and supporting cheer leading for one candidate, notably donald trump, and our allies are fearful. and they've been planning for these contingencies for, you know, i've traveled overseas and i've talked to a number of leader, and they've been planning for these contingencies for months. in ukraine in particular they're really, really concerned about the u.s. completely cutting support for ukraine and then fortunately we have nato in europe stepping up in a big way. nato is actually -- the nato

member states, the vast majority of nato member states, are spending large sums of money to build a defense apparatus. the question is can they coalesce, can they continue to support the security of the alliance after the u.s. so it's a very, very difficult moment. again, nobody's going to say this out loud, but there is a lot of fear and apprehension about the looming possibility of a trump second administration. and they are paying attention to the anti-democratic bent of something like project 2025, whether an effort to impose massive tariff, withdraw from nato, where there is an effort to basically isolate the u.s. and take us off the world stage. so these things are really, really concerning. >> in 25 years when you and i are very old men they will talk about the fact that joe biden not only oversaw the expansion

of nato by two countries but also brought in there are 20 plus countries that are nonnato countries involved in ukraine. that has sent a message to china be careful about taiwan. it sent a message to north korea to be careful. it sent a message to iran to be careful. this is -- this is actually a big undertaking. it may not play all that importantly here for people whose main concerns are domestic issues, but it's a very big deal. >> it's a huge deal. it's, you know, it's one of those big, round numbers that is supposed to -- it's an anniversary and a commemoration of the effectiveness of nato after 75 years. largely effectively preventing large scale war on the european plane up until recently. there was a moment in which our nato may have even lost its way, where there was a deliberation discussion of whether nato should continue to exist. certainly after the collapse of the soviet union. in the 2010s, what is the mission of nato.

there were projects to define nato 2030 and things of that nature. well, what's clear is certainly over the past decade ever since 2014 is that nato's mission is now more important than pretty much at any point since the collapse of the soviet union and maybe even since the end of the cold war. we had during the second world war we had a moment during which nato was established to resist the soviet attack. we now have a moment -- and that was successful -- we now have a moment where nato has to come together to ensure that this war between russia and ukraine doesn't spill over into europe and to deter other aggressors like iran, like china. that's on the agenda not just for the nato member states but for democracies around the world. there are a large number of democratic leaders, south korea, japan, that are playing a role

in this nato anniversary. >> retired united states army lieutenant colonel alexander vindman, always good to see you. thank you for joining us tonight. one week away from the republican national committee. today the republican platform committee approved what you might call a mini platform for the party. we're going to talk about one of its marquee points and the vulnerability it creates for republicans with voters right after this. stay with us. voters righ after this stay with us sed unintentional movements in her face, hands, and feet called tardive dyskinesia, or td. so her doctor prescribed austedo xr— a once-daily td treatment for adults. ♪ as you go with austedo ♪ austedo xr significantly reduced kate's td movements. some people saw a response as early as 2 weeks. with austedo xr, kate can stay on her mental health meds— (kate) oh, hi buddy! (female vo) austedo xr can cause depression, suicidal thoughts, or actions in patients with huntington's disease. pay close attention to and call your doctor if you become depressed, have sudden changes in mood, or have suicidal thoughts. don't take if you have liver problems, are taking reserpine, tetrabenazine, or valbenazine.

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we therefore reaffirm our support for a human life

commitment to the constitution. and we endorse legislation to make clear that the 14th amendment's protections apply to unborn children. >> we support a human life amendment to the constitution and we endorse legislation to make clear that the 14th amendment's protections apply to unborn children. >> there should be a human life amendment in the constitution to give 14th amendment protection to unborn children. >> in every presidential election since 1984, the republican party platform has included a demand for a national ban on abortion. the 14th amendment says that a state cannot deprive a citizen of his or her life, liberty, or property without due process of law. and republicans say they want to extend 14th amendment protections to fetuses and embryos which would effectively make all abortions illegal. that was part of the party platform all the way up until 2020, when of course, you'll recall the republican party decided they just wouldn't have

a platform that year. now this year the republican party platform is back, but this time the promise to ban abortion nationwide has changed. today republicans added abortion language that reads, quote -- life or liberty without due process and that the states are therefore free to pass laws protecting those rights. after 51 years because of us that power has been given to the state and to a vote of the people, end quote. in other words, forget that thing we've been saying for 40 years about banning all abortions everywhere, we just want to leave it up to the states now. many, but not all republicans, realized that their decades long crusade to pass a national abortion ban is a huge political liability for them and they're now doing everything they can to run away from this issue.

but democrats won't let them. last week the biden campaign unveiled a new $50 million blitz. they're using those new ads to shore up hissed by and capitalize on republicans' single biggest vulnerability this election cycle. >> like a lot of families, we experienced a couple miscarriages. i saw firsthand the treatment i received when i had my miscarriages before and after roe was overturned. and it is infuriating. doctors were afraid to give me the care that i needed. what we're seeing here in louisiana is a direct result of donald trump overturning roe v. wade. first it was roe v. wade, then it was ivf, and next it will be birth control. donald trump is going to pass a national abortion ban if he's elected again. this has to stop, and that's why i'm so adamant about supporting president biden. >> in the days since the debate while the democratic party has argued over whether or not to keep joe biden at the top of the ticket, voters in arkansas, nebraska, and nevada submitted or verified enough signatures to put abortion access on the

ballot in this upcoming election. there are now 11 states where abortion could be on the ballot this year, including battleground states like florida, arizona, and nevada. in every statewide ballot initiative since the fall of roe, wet wl brought by supporters or opponents of abortion rights, voters have consistently chosen to protect or expand abortion rights. and the energy behind those ballot measures -- turnout in favor of democratic candidates. it's a good reminder that while parties may debate who appears at the top of the ticket, elections are decided at the ballot box state by state. in just a second i'll talk to one of the most dynamic and insightful state party leaders in the country about what's happening on the ground in a critically important swing state. stay with us. ally important swing state. stay with us

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[♪♪] if you're only using facial moisturizer in the morning, did you know, the best time for skin renewal is at night? olay retinol24 renews millions of surface skin cells while you sleep. wake up to smoother, younger-looking skin with olay retinol24. president joe biden firing back at naysayers with a new ad from the campaign trail. it features him speaking at a rally friday in madison, wisconsin, selling his record on healthcare, climate, gun safety, and more in a critical

battleground state. the rally was biden's fifth campaign trip to wisconsin, his first since his debate with donald trump. and while democrats at the national level are wondering whether biden can recover from his performance on debate night in atlanta, the view from swing state wisconsin might surprise you. the chair of the wisconsin democratic party, ben wick ler, telling reporters last week, quote, he did not believe the dynamic of the race was changed by biden's performance at the debate when he was often groping for words. that remains the case, end quote. joining me now is ben wikler. usually there are turning points in campaigns and there are a lot of people who think the debate was a turning point. within about a week you see the effect that they've had. we've seen this for campaign after campaign. that didn't really happen here. people are largely locked into where they are. there's been some movement, some of it negative for joe biden, in

a couple of instances it looks like no movement, but tell me what you're seeing on the ground. >> i appreciate it. it's great to be with you here. and it was a rough debate, and then our volunteers fanned out across wisconsin, knocked on tens of thousands of doors, and you know what no voters told our volunteers when they were talking to them the weekend right after the the ebait? nobody said that biden seemed so old in the debate that i now want doctors to be jailed if they provide abortions. nobody said biden seems so old that i think billionaires should pay less taxes so that my prices can be jacked up by special interests. nobody said that. the stakes in the debate are still what they were before. in fact, they're higher after the supreme court decision, and our job, our path to victory in this election are to make the stakes for freedom, democracy, for working people the core thing people are voting on in november. >> to the degree that the election is binary, the other side stays the same. donald trump, who this week

tried very creatively -- last week tried very creatively to say i don't know what project 2025 is. don't know what it is, but i don't agree with it. typical donald trump inconsistency. but that's true. i mean, people vote on abortion. people vote on their finances. people vote on their wages. they vote on inflation. they vote on healthcare. they vote on a lot of things. and the debate performance didn't change that for a lot of people. >> that's right. and when voters watch the debate, you know, biden was raspy and sometimes lost track of a sentence and came back and made clear he's on the side of working people. donald trump was very clearly on the side of himself. and there were voter who is hadn't seen trump in a long time who watched that debate and were shocked when trump tried to make it sound like nancy pelosi had organized january 6th. they knew full well that donald trump was the guy who tried to overturn the election and shred our democracy and kick voters in the teeth. so those issues, those issues

that have motivated democrats to victory in wisconsin in the governor's race in 2022, the supreme court race in 2023, those are still right here. and they're right here as the republicans prepare to come to wisconsin for their convention next week. we have the democratic party has billboards and buses all over milwaukee reminding voters about what the stakes are. and the republican party really doesn't have a path to run away from the thing that trump's own team has set out with project 2025, a blue pribt for trumpian dictatorship. >> it's wild. chapter after chapter is authored by somebody who worked for donald trump, including peter navarro, who's in jail. that's the trade chapter in project 2025. that said, i had an interesting conversation with maxine waters earlier today, who talks a lot about the things that joe biden has achieved that don't -- they don't feel like a change in the temperature, right? manufacturing jobs are up, we're

building semiconductors in the united states, infrastructure is being fixed. if you're buying insulin, you're capped on how much you'll pay for it. how much of this should be on biden's record, which is good, versus the threat of donald trump? how do you balance those two things when talking to a voter at their door? >> they're linked in a way they think is not yet visible to people. the argument is just beginning to be made. what we saw with the affordable care act is that it didn't yield political dividends for democrats, but the republicans' threat of taking it away was a disaster. joe biden has expanded health insurance to millions more people. donald trump still wants to repeal the affordable care act and kick tens of millions of people off of their health insurance, remove protections for people with preexisting conditions. the biggest climate investment, now there are big projects going up all over the country. trump wants to repeal it. trump wants to take away the clean energy incentives people are using to upgrade their houses and make their lives bet

exer bring energy costs down. trump wants to shred the progress we've made, and people do not like that idea. they don't like things being taken away. and i think this is the job. i mean, wisconsin elections come down to less than one percentage point over and over. we call it the margin of effort, a quarter of lambeau field. that means if someone volunteers, that org lays out what trump will to to them if he gets in office -- >> and that -- that pivots into the abortion discussion, because it's a rights taken away. there are people who voted against taking rights away in some states that have had statewide votes, who certainly don't want handmaid's tale. >> that's exactly right. and the thing that's terrifying is for whatever trump, you know, if this goes into the national platform of the republican party, his own team has put together project 2025 with its plan for a national abortion ban that doesn't require passing a law. i mean, once you can break the

law and have immunity from criminal prosecution and once you dismantle the machinery of the federal government that's supposed to serve the public and make it personal servants to donald trump, you can crush the freedoms people rely on. that's what trump is promising. the special interests, they know what he's planning, because they wrote the plan. so the more we get the word out about the stakes, the more voters actually come to us, because they don't want their free toms taken away. >> we're going to make sure people understand what is actually at stake here. ben, good to see you, as always. the democratic chair of the party in wisconsin. we'll be right back. party in wisconsin we'll be right back. alright. done. (♪♪) plateau de fromage! [cheering] oh la la! [cheering] don't panic. gift easy with gift mode, now on etsy.

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get the fastest connection to paris with xfinity. this time next week, rachel's going to be back here in her original spot point while she is away, episode 4 of rachel maddow presents ultra is out today. and i promise it will shock you and surprise you. it is available free wherever you get your podcasts. also want to mention one more

thing. that rachel and the whole crew of us are doing in just a few short months. on saturday, september 7th in brooklyn, new york msnbc is hosting a live event at the brooklyn academy of music. this the first of its kind event we are all super excited about it. tickets are still available at msnbc.com/democracy 2024 that is it for us tonight. you can catch us back your on weekends at 10:00 a.m. eastern. time now for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. good evening, my friend. it is good to see you. >> good evening. we have to get straight to some breaking news from the white house. have just released a letter from the president's physician, response to a lot of what we saw. >> it is an important letter. >> today's white house press briefing that really got out of control. we are going to get straight to it, thank you. we just got this letter and if you saw the, any of the white house press briefing today, it was the white house press corps, many of them at their absolute worst in the way they approached pres