uncomfortable truth in your party is the one through line. it's something that can bring a lot of heat. i'm not that surprised. on the other hand, the fact that nine, was the latest number, democrats have spoken out, that's unprecedented. that, in some ways, does seem like a lot, you know, given where we are in the campaign cycle. >> it's nine and then a number of people who have made implicitly clear that they are uncomfortable with the current situation. tim miller, i appreciate you. thank you very much. everyone should check out "the bulwark," a plug there. thank you for getting up "way too early" with us on this tuesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. the media spent almost two weeks calling on a candidate to drop out of the race, and, somehow, it's not the convicted felon. biden is brushing everyone off. he's like, hey, people have been telling me not to run for president since 1988. i think i know what i'm doing. i think i know what i'm doing.

>> good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is tuesday, july 9th. good to have you with us. along with us, we have u.s. special correspondent for bbc news, emeritus on the council of foreign relations, richard haass. "washington post"'s eugene robinson. managing editor at "the bulwark" and also "way too early" duties this morning, sam stein is with us. >> you know, it is incredible, what has been happening. oh, by the way, i found out this morning, "wall street journal" editorial page, you and i were relieved the president didn't say they were elites. turnip truck, i'm a man of the people. katty can confirm. oh, also, i just -- >> oh, now, okay.

>> let's vent at the top of the show. >> let's get some organization here. >> i hope you and mika are okay. apparently, some right-wing something said that we were fighting each other over joe biden. >> no. >> you got really testy. >> we had a semi-vigorous debate. >> you should see at home when she tells me to take out the trash at 10:00 at night. that's when it gets testy. >> no. i mean, seriously, we've had bigger debates. >> we have had bigger debates. we're fine. can we hug each other on air? >> no. >> no, she does not like that. >> no. >> katty, coming into this week, i've been hearing, oh, my god, from source after source after source that this was the week, like, the biden campaign, the white house, democratic leaders, press people, those who have known joe biden for a long time, family members all said last week, this coming week is when it is going to get really ugly

because there's going to be mass defections, there are going to be letters. democrats are going to come out by the dozens and speak out against joe biden. we're taking this day by day by day, but i must say, yesterday started with a letter. he came on this show and called donors. i do think by the end of the day, the white house had to be thinking, all right, we stopped the dam from breaking. there were, like, eight or nine defections in the house. the senate is still kind of grumbling. but day one, they seem to at least hold serve, so to speak. >> yeah, i spoke to several people yesterday who said they kind of wished he had done what he did yesterday, starting on your show, with the letter to congress, and reach out to donors earlier. my reporting is that the president himself was pretty rocked by that debate performance, and it took time for him to recognize what he needed to do. i don't know that we can say the

dam has totally held or will completely hold permanently. there are certainly a lot of people who are allies of the president, supporters of the president, who still have questions about his long-term capability of prosecuting this race in a way that would give the democrats the maximum chance of beating donald trump in november. i don't think those questions have necessarily stopped. i've spoken to some people up on capitol hill who don't love the comments about the elites and are slightly dismissive tone, as they'd characterize it from the campaign, about members of congress. but i think everybody still wants reassurance that joe biden is the best democrat to run against donald trump. that's the bottom line. i mean, it is very messy, right? you've been hearing this, it's messy. i love your characterization of this as therapy. this is cheap therapy if everyone would like to listen. >> exactly. >> but it's messy, and i'm not sure that we are in a position where we can say it is

absolutely clear that joe biden is going to be still the democratic nominee or that democrats are necessarily happy. it's not just elites. i mean, we've had these polls for months and months and months, showing that the american public has concerns about his age. i'm in europe. europeans have concerns about his age. >> yeah. >> but he did yesterday what a lot of democrats had been asking him to do. >> right, yeah. by the way, speaking of europe, for your reading list this morning at home, folks, "the new york times" has a great column on what happened in france on sunday was nothing short of shocking. jerry baker with "the wall street journal" talks about what conservatives can learn from labour's massive victory. two really good articles, and we'll be talking to katty about that a little bit later on.

i will say, gene robinson, you know survival is one thing. stopping an autocrat from becoming president of the united states and upending 240 years of constitutional norms is quite another. and i will say, you know, again, taking a lot of calls. took a lot of calls from angry democrats. now, they were donors. they were elites, what joe biden would rightly call elites. by the way, that is a perfect positioning for joe biden. if you've been in politics 54 years and you're 81 years old and you've been a politician since you were 29, you can run a campaign against elites, come on, take that, baby. >> yeah. >> that's a great thing. but that said, there are some really angry people. we'll read an op-ed from "the economist," came out and

straight said he was lied to by the biden people, lied to by jeffrey katzenberg, lied to by everyone. hollywood raised $30 million for joe biden. there is anger out there. "the new york times" editorial page once again saying, "step down, mr. president." we'll read from that. so, yes, joe biden can survive, but there's a lot of work to do in a little bit of time. >> yeah, there is an awful lot of work to do. i mean, you're right that the idea of joe biden, who has been, you know, a major political figure for his entire life, running against the democratic party establishment is, i think, the technical term is malarkey, kind of crazy, but he is doing it. we're going day by day. he won the day yesterday, clearly, because there was not even a trickle of new

defections, to say nothing of a flood. the dam did not break. so it held, and he gets, today, to fight another day. he probably gets a bit of a respite. he has the nato summit going on the next three days. it is hard for me to imagine a lot of people, a lot of democrats really relishing the idea of attacking the sitting president while he's doing a nato summit, while he is conducting foreign policy. >> exactly. >> that's -- >> gene, i'm glad you brought that up, really quickly. underline that fact, okay? so he gets through today. now, a nato summit takes the middle of the week. there is no way anybody is going to undermine the president in their own party while he is meeting with nato leaders about the future of freedom in europe. >> yeah. >> so maybe that has bought him

two, two and a half more days. >> exactly. look, that brins him to the press conference he scheduled on thursday, at which he needs to perform well. he needs to perform a whole lot better than he did in that debate. that will not be enough for all the people who say it's time for joe biden to withdraw, to step aside, perhaps for kamala harris, perhaps for some sort of more open process involving delegates. it won't be enough, but it will be enough for some. again, it'll buy him more time. he just reminded everybody with that letter and his appearance on "morning joe" yesterday morning that he does hold the cards here. i mean -- >> he holds all of them. >> -- this is his decision. he holds all of them. so, if you're going to get him out, you're going to have to push. you'll have to convince. you're going to have to push.

but he is going to have to make the decision, and his decision right now is he's in the race to stay. >> yeah. well, i mean, joe biden before all of this happened was 81 years old and people had concerns about his age. he's still 81 years old, and people have concerns about his age no matter what he does. before the debate, donald trump was crazy. he had dictator type tendencies. to quote the president, he is a pathological liar, a fraud, a proven fraud, a bigot. i mean, all those things are still the same today, yet, we're spending all of this time. it's got to be frustrating for those who actually believe in this race and believe that there are very two clear choices here to hear this conversation going on and on. having said that, following his letter yesterday to congressional democrats in which he forcefully affirmed he is

staying in the race and called in for an interview with us on "morning joe," president biden looked to reassure donors. in a call with the biden victory fund's national finance committee, the president thanked his biggest contributors and urged them to move past last month's debate and focus on donald trump instead. saying, quote, we can't waste any more time being distracted. the president told the group he is the best person to beat trump and that he is not going away. biden also spent a few minutes answering questions, including what his strategy will be for the next debate. the president responded, quote, attack, attack, attack. >> which is what democrats want to hear. >> yeah. then there is the congressional hispanic caucus, which is reaffirming its support behind had the biden, though some caucus members have either called for biden to drop out of the race or have said they are concerned. the caucus as a whole released a statement that reads in part, quote, "we stand with president

biden and vice president kamala harris. for the last year and a half, the biden-harris administration partnered with the congressional hispanic caucus' initiative to take chc on the road. through that initiative, we have worked to empower latino communities across the country." a meeting between biden and the congressional hispanic caucus is reportedly in the works. there's no word yet on when it is supposed to take place. a meeting did take place last night between biden and members of the congressional black caucus. biden spoke with the group virtually for about 20 minutes and touched on issues such as uplifting black america and growing wealth, housing and taxing the ultra wealthy. members reassured biden they still support him amid his debate fallout. here is how cbc chair congressman horsford described the meeting. >> president was clear that he is in this race to win. we have one objective, and that

is to win. this president is fit and prepared to continue to serve. he is civil, and he is experienced. the opposite side offers us nothing but chaos and extremism. to be clear, president biden is our nominee. the vice president, kamala harris, is his running mate. they are the team that will ensure that we move america forward, and there will be no other nominee than president biden. later this morning, house democrats are set to hold a caucus wide meeting. here's some of what key leaders and members are saying about biden's candidacy ahead of the gathering. >> i made clear publicly the day after the debate that i support president joe biden and the democratic ticket. my position has not changed. >> but that's biden and the democratic ticket. do you support biden on the ticket or just biden and whatever the ticket is? >> same answer.

>> listen, we had a great president. he has a -- working with us -- a great record of achievement. and i'm hopeful he will be the next president of the united states. >> i have spoken to the president over the weekend. i have spoken with him extensively. he made clear then and he has made clear since that he is in this race. the matter is closed. he had reiterated that this morning. he has reiterated that to the public. joe biden is our nominee. he is not leaving this race. he is in this race, and i support him. >> i really do believe that the more members of our caucus who speak directly to him, the more confident they will feel. so i have encouraged the white house to make sure that the president does as much outreach as possible -- or not the white house but the campaign, that the president does as much outreach as possible. >> listen, i'm not here to give advice to my colleagues. they all have independent

districts and things they feel like they have to do. i do think that we should continue to have whatever conversations we need to have with our constituents, with our colleagues, we should have them in private. >> you know, sam stein, the last comment may have sounded, you know, like she didn't want to answer the question or tried to have it both ways, but that is politics. that's the thing that hit me this weekend. when people said, oh, the house democrats are going to go back and push joe biden out, i started -- i mean, you know, i was, last week, i said here, a couple places i was driving, car windows down. i had democrats yell, "hey, take it easy on biden, joe!" you look on twitter, which has been a hotbed of angry, far-right reactionaryism over

the past five years or so. it's changed, man. there are some angry democrats out there. so all of that anecdotal, but i found in politics from a very early age, enough anecdotes usually leads to pretty good data eventually. i was just thinking about the house members. what are they hearing from their constituents? chances are good they've got a lot of pissed off constituents saying -- >> yup. >> -- be loyal to the president of the united states. perhaps that may be why we're seeing more house democrats freeze. what are you hearing? >> it is anecdotal, but, eventually, they pile up to become something close to empirical, right? one house member went home over the july 4th break. he said he had -- of all the conversations he had with democratic voters, it was something like an 80/20 split of people who really thought biden

was getting an unshare shake here and should not be pushed out of the race. of the 80%, predominantly african-american women. as you know, that is the bedrock constituency with the party. it is notable that not a single member of the cbc has said anything about biden leaving the race. nor does it seem like they're going to. it's maybe more notable, i think, that you have some of the progressives, like alexandra ocasio-cortez saying they want to see biden stick it out. he doesn't have much credibility among progressives, right? they've been incredibly disheartened with his handling of the israel-hamas war. for some of them to say, "look, stick with this guy," that is a huge help for him going forward. this doesn't mean he is in the clear. i think we're all very cognisant that, you know, there's incredible pressure on him to prove that he has what it takes to bring the fight to trump. >> right. >> there's going to be a lot of

eyes on the thursday press conference, you know, just the timing of it is incredible. >> yeah. >> but if you're the biden folks, this has gone about as well -- the last two days, i would say, have gone about as well as you could have hoped. you called the party's bluff. you've made the outreach. you've seen the most important lawmakers that you need say, "stick with joe." >> right, yeah. we're going to get to richard haass in a second who has a decidedly different point of view than our own mika brzezinski. but, gene, i want to circle back to you for a second and talk parallels. >> mm-hmm. >> this is the -- i mean, for different reasons, but this is where joe biden was in 2020. >> yeah. >> people say, "get out of the race. you're terrible at this. you're too old. you're out of it. you can't win." how many times have we heard joe biden can't win, you can't win? he's going to have to step aside

after '22. again, people out there saying, you know, because i know i get the emails. i'm just stating facts here. i'm not saying what ought to be. i'm saying what is. gene, that's how it was in 2020. jim clyburn, and as i've said for years, and black women pro dominantly stepped up, saved joe biden's candidacy, and helped him win in places like wisconsin, philadelphia, atlanta, places that mattered, detroit. here we are again, gene. you look, black women, the congressional black caucus, something different now, again, anecdotally, but this is going to bear itself out in polls i suspect, older white people in wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania, rallying to a man that a lot of them are saying is being unfairly attacked.

>> look, you and mika were there that morning in 2020. >> yup. >> the morning of the new hampshire primary. joe biden came on "morning joe," and he was done, right? he was done. he was finished. he was never going to be president. >> yup. >> we all knew it. it was kind of in the air. nobody quite said that, but that's what was going to happen. it was finished. then a couple weeks later, he was the presumptive nominee. i mean, he was on his way. >> yeah. >> we saw then that democratic voters can be extremely sort of cold-eyed and pragmatic. they made a decision, led initially by jim clyburn and african-americans in south carolina, but democrats across the country decided, you know, this is the guy. this is our safest choice. this is the guy who can beat donald trump. so they went with joe biden, and

he beat donald trump. now, you know, past performance does not guarantee future results, but that has been the pattern with joe biden. he gets counted out, and he somehow comes back. that's kind of the judgment of a lot of pretty important actors in this play right now, that biden is still the safest alternative. but, again, things can change. we're kind of still in a day-to-day situation now. one more major slip by biden, and that could open the floodgates. >> exactly. >> that could create all these scenarios that are kind of, you know, seeming really wild and unlikely but could unfold. we'll just take it day by day for now. >> right.

that's really -- gene underlined the greatest concern with those who love joe biden but believe he should step down. because there is, you know, one more meltdown like we saw debate night, and it starts all over again. it's all over. their concern is, what happens if that comes in september? what happens if that comes in october? what happens if it comes on thursday, this thursday? if something like that happens at the press conference, this conversation begins anew. so there is a, right now, a bit of a perilous march toward the nomination and beyond. >> well, "the new york times" editorial board is out with a new piece entitled, "the democratic party must speak the plain truth to the president." the board writes in part, quote, "the 2024 presidential election is not a contest between two men, or even between two political parties. it is a battle for who we are as a nation. president biden clearly understands the stakes.

but he seems to have lost track of his own role this this national drama. as the situation has become more dire, he has come to regard himself as indispensable. he does not seem to understand that he is now the problem and that the best hope for democrats to retain the white house is for him to step aside." >> richard -- >> uh -- >> what's wrong? >> you know, i would think that also not saying on the debate stage that you're willing to accept the election results would be a reason to white an editorial saying that you are not fit to serve and to run for president again. but -- >> you know, the thing is, again, right now, the issue is what happened the night of the debate on joe biden's side. >> that happened, as well. >> that did happen, as well. it will be covered in time. it needs to be covered more. again, "the new york times" syntax blog probably -- you know, the obsession, because people feel guilty about not seeing this early on doesn't

mean they have to overcompensate for the next five months. but, richard haass, i'm glad you're on that side of the screen. i will throw it to you and have you comment. do you feel any different than the last time you were on, or do you agree with "the new york times" that, for the good of the country, joe biden needs to step down? >> yeah, it is actually one of those rare moments where i do agree with "the new york times" editorial page. i think there is a difference between asking whether the president will be the candidate. i think he probably will, joe and mika, if he decides to hang tough. should he be the candidate is obviously a different question. i think a couple of reasons not. one is the structural moment. this is a bad, bad time for incumbents. look what happened in south africa, india, france, and britain. four big elections. in each case, there is an

anti-incumbent mood. if you see donald trump as the threat you do, there is a strike against him. look this morning. if the whole idea is to make trump the issue, his past record as president, his congenital lying, his own physical and mental fitness for the job, i think it's going to be extremely hard for joe biden to press that case. as you said, any minor slip, any imperfection, again, joe biden is going to be the issue. if the whole idea is to make this a race about trump, which i think is necessary if trump is to be defeated, i do not think joe biden is the person to accomplish that. you know, many of the other potential democrats would be better placed. also, let's be honest here, i just don't see how a person that's 86, 4 1/2 years from now, joe biden would be 86 going into the last three months of his presidency. i'm just hard-pressed to see how he would be in a position to do the job. this is not an anti-joe biden rant. i've respected him, have been

friends with him for 50 years. i think he's done a good job as president. to me, the question is, is he the best candidate to beat donald trump? i would say not. >> right. >> is he in a position where he could serve effectively four more years? i would say probably not. mika, the argument that, somehow, the people have spoken, let's be real about the campaign. there was tremendous pressure from the white house, pressuring other democrats not to get in the race. the whole argument was, that will weaken joe biden against donald trump. a lot of people took that to heart. i don't think now you can use the argument that other people didn't get in the race to say people had their chance, and joe biden is the nominee. i just don't think that's fair. i think that a lot of democrats would have gotten into the race but were worried about somehow looking disloyal to weaken the democratic frontrunner. >> well, i never said that. i just believe that joe biden knows how to do the job. he's proven he can do the job. he's had an historic presidency. he can go on for about 20

minutes listing what he's done and wouldn't be finished in terms of his accomplishment, including bipartisan legislation, so on and so on, and managing these two international situations, two hot wars. it is joe biden and his team who believes he's the best person for the job. oh, by the way, he has beaten trump before. there's a record on every level. that's hard to compete with. >> right. katty kay, though, just wrapping up the segment, richard is right. if this campaign is about joe biden, donald trump wins. if this campaign is about donald trump, joe biden wins. it's that simple. right now, because of the debate performance, not because of any conspiracy, mika, but because of the debate performance, joe biden's own debate performance, inexplicable debate performance, conversation is about joe biden.

donald trump literally doing nothing, staying at home. i think he called into sean hannity last night. no events. he's gone completely dark. they are keeping him in a sealed caddyshack. >> he's had a rough spring. >> that's your public appearances count, 10-0. this reminds us all, of course -- i find it hilarious. regardless how you feel, oh, joe biden needs to go to sleep at 8:00. barack obama went up at 6:00 every night. >> donald trump never worked. >> george w. bush went up at 6:00 every night. watched espn most nights, i'm sure. allies were like, it's not -- yes, it is true. donald trump, i mean, remember those -- he averaged 2 1/2, 3 hours of work a day in the white

house. remember the executive time? he did nothing. again, all of this is very legitimate, but so many arguments that are used against joe biden just don't hold water if you're a supporter of donald trump. if you're in the media, it holds water. if you're a supporter of donald trump, it holds no water because no president has ever done less in the white house than donald trump. >> look, i don't think anyone is debating, certainly on the democratic side, that joe biden would be infinitely preferable from their point of view to donald trump. in europe, joe biden would be infinitely preferable for donald trump. i think everyone is agreed on that. the question is, and mika is right, he was 81 before the debate, 81 after the debate, but there is a sense that the debate has revealed something that perhaps was having shielded from the american public or being shielded from the press or being shielded from members of congress. i have heard from them saying they didn't feel they were

getting a clear picture from the campaign about joe biden's abilities before that debate. the question is not whether it is joe biden or donald trump. the question is, in this election in november -- and this is is simple question -- who is the best democrat to take on donald trump in november? people who had felt that, before the debate, they were totally on board with joe biden, some of them are now questioning after the debate whether he is really the best person to take on that campaign. it's -- i don't know that there is a clear, simple answer, and i don't think denigraing those who are raising these questions is particularly helpful from the campaign's point of view because you risk alienating more people. i understand why joe biden is doing that. it is a very clear tactical, political thing to do, and anyone would probably do that in his position, put yourself against the elites. but it doesn't necessarily make the questions go away. the single thing that i'm hearing, exactly what you have just said, joe, is that there is a real concern amongst people who are die-hard allies of joe biden's, who have been with him

for decades, that between now and november, there will be another incident like that debate performance, and that will cost democrats what is already a very close election. >> i think you're right, denigrating people who are raising questions is not a good play. questions are fair to have. >> right. >> at the same time, really important to push back against narratives that don't make any sense or are not true. like joe biden was hiding for months and months and months. did anyone see him hiding? i believe you spent three hours with him running all over the place, doing acrobatics. >> well, but, but -- >> i believe he went to the g-7. i believe he went to normandy. i believe he went to a state dinner. i can think of the things he did in the weeks before the debate. i did not see this man hiding. i saw him on the world stage. by the way, the alternative on the world stage, let's talk about the campaign. let's talk about donald trump on the world stage, and think about

every single time he showed up on the world stage and the mess he made. i'll just put it that way. for america. >> yeah. >> it's frustrating when there are naratives like he is hiding, he's hiding something. he's mangled his words for years, people, okay? i'll be the first to say it. >> so sorry, alex, we'll have to continue this. this is critical, then we'll go to break. gene, let me go to you. like me, you're a little older. maybe we've been around, you know, our parents and others who have gone through whatever they've gone through. so mika is right, and i've said this before. i was with joe biden this spring. i think it was april. >> you came back tired because he was running up so many stairs. >> i haven't talked about the whole thing.

we spoke two, two and a half, maybe three hours on foreign policy. we talked about economic policy. like, this was deep stuff. what is bill burns' strategy, you know, getting this war to come to an end in russia and ukraine and whatever? he, of course, couldn't tell me the classified stuff, but he went deep. it went deep wherever i went. i said, okay, what you're doing, again, hemming in china. he talked about what he was doing. what they'd done in guam. what they were doing with japan. what they were doing with australia, the strategies. i came home -- i haven't said this on the air, but it was one of the most impressive tours around the world since i had the honor of being able to talk to dr. brzezinski when he was alive. he then said, have you ever been around, you know, the white house? i said, no. you know, most presidents hate me, mr. president.

he walked me up to the second floor, showed me around there. i said, okay, this is great. i'm an old guy. he goes, let me show you what's on the third floor. walks me up. holy cow. i saw where donald trump put his makeup on every morning. it was exciting. >> covered with bronzer? >> yes. >> you know, he would spray it. >> he takes me up to the top. he shows me the balcony. i'm thinking, i'm tired. the guy is walking up all these stairs. you know, i'm trying to exercise. i'm an old guy, but i'm coughing and wheezing. >> he'd been hiding. >> there's all of that, right? three hours. he's vigorous. he is slow, no doubt. he is slow. his movements are slow. but mentally, he is vigorous. physically, he's doing what a lot of people couldn't do. but that begs the question to me, right? >> yeah. >> he's there. i've gotten some calls late at

night when he disagreed with some op-eds i've written in the past. so, yes, that's really positive, but it still begs the question, if he is that with it there, what happened? >> what happened? >> the night of the debate. >> right. >> by the way, i've talked to other people that spent a lot of time with him, that don't work for him so, you know, they have no skin in the game. spent a lot. their experience the same as my experience. so the enduring mystery here is, to me at least, because everyone is saying it's a coverup. well, let's find out who covered it up and fire them. the media should fire anybody that covered up joe biden's infirmities. even when "the wall street journal" tried to write an article, they had to lead with kevin mccarthy, who told the staff he was vigorous and a great negotiator.

gene, doesn't that -- i'm not going to say i find it more troubling, but more vexing, if that's the joe biden i saw and that others have seen, what happened that night? >> well, and that's the question. the joe biden that i had seen up close and personal in the not-very-distant past was the joe biden you are describing. he sounded a lot like the joe biden who called in yesterday. he mangles a few words. not every sentence, you know, lands where it was initially supposed to land. he was obviously, you know, not just coherent, but forceful and purposeful in what he said. clearly with it. so what happened on debate night? i think the question that is not

yet answered and that needs to be answered is was that a one-off, or is this -- does this happen on a regular basis? are these bad days? he said it was a bad night. he keeps saying it was a bad night. how many bad nights does he have? how many bad days does he have? is this something new? i -- we don't know the answer because i, for one, have not seen that joe biden that we saw at the debate. >> right. and he has answered. he said he was sick. by the way, all the lack of hiding made him sick. he needs to hide a little bit more. he's always out there. you saw him in normandy. people are all over him. he needs to pull back and not get sick. he has told you he was sick. he has told you he was sick. and nobody likes the answer, but that is the answer. still ahead on "morning joe," the latest from ukraine after a russian missile strike

hit a children's hospital in kyiv. >> oh, my god. >> vladimir putin is now targeting children's hospitals. >> it comes as nato leaders get ready to meet -- >> by the way, this is who donald trump says is brilliant. by the way, which is who donald trump loves. this is who donald trump wants to be like. this is who donald trump wants to emulate. vladimir putin, a guy -- by the way, has donald trump condemned vladimir putin for targeting a children's hospital? >> he says he was chatting with him recently. you would think he would have something to say. plus, how britain's new prime minister beat the far-right and far-left by addressing real voters' problems. "the atlantic's" anne applebaum joins us with more on that. so much ahead. you're watching "morning joe." we're back in 90 seconds. botox® prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine before they start. and treatment is 4 times a year. in a survey, 91% of users wish they'd started sooner.

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but parents? well... care.com makes it easy to find background checked childcare that fits your summer schedule. from long term to short notice. give yourself a break this summer. go to care.com now. we will celebrate our alliance this week, the 75th anniversary, but we will also make decisions for the future on deterrence and defense, ensuring that we have the forces, the readiness, the capacity we need to detur an aggressor, and to ensure our allies continue to carry their fair share of the burden. we have good numbers, 23 allies are now spending at least 2% of gdp on defense, up from only 3

allies when we met back in 2014. >> that was nato secretary general stoltenberg at the summit. it kicks off today in washington, d.c. the war in ukraine will be a major topic among allies, and, yesterday, russia launched a wide-scale missile attack across ukraine which caused massive damage to a children's hospital in kyiv. video of the aftermath shows emergency crews trying to dig survivors out of the rubble of the destroyed building. ukraine's security service accused russia of launching a missile directly at the hospital. russia denying that, saying the damage was caused by a falling air defense missile launched by ukraine. joining us now, senior fellow at the washington thinktank, the atlantic council, ian brzezinski. staff writer at "the atlantic,"

anne applebaum. we'll give katty kay the first question. >> anne, a year or so ago, we were looking at the situation in ukraine and seeing this as a moment of validation for nato. nato had been kind of in the daldrums. the images from the hospital attack are heart rendering. you look at russia's position in ukraine and some of the political fractions within nato. how does nato, as it celebrates its p 75th birthday, how is it standing and looking to you? >> so the point of this summit is going to be to show putin that nato will remain unified, and i think despite the various, you know, politically headwinds you've just described, despite the recent election in france, despite what's happening in the united states, i think the nato -- i think it is incredible how unified the alliance is. the idea is to put some money

into a basket for the future. what nato needs to do now is deter russia and show that there will be a price to pay for continuing the war. of course, there will be a price to pay if the war spreads farther. that's the purpose of the summit. remember, this war is a kind of psychological game. putin is actually running out of soldiers. he is losing equipment. he can't keep doing this forever. what he is trying to do is hold on just long enough for nato to break up. the point of the summit is to show that it won't. >> richard, sam stein here. i mean, the backdrop of all this, of course, is what we were talking about earlier in the show, which is joe biden and his inability at this juncture to inspire confidence, both domestically and on the world stage. we've talked. we've seen european diplomats basically act as if he will not be president by next year. i'm wondering if you're picking that up, too, and sort of how that colors the summit. do people who support ukraine

sense that there is a shortened window here to get something done or even produce some sort of resolution because trump may come back into power come january? >> sam, you're right. the reality of this summit is that there's the formal agenda and the real agenda. the formal agenda is the bridge to the future for ukraine. they'll talk about greater european defense effort. it's all necessary. by the way, there's a lot to celebrate with nato at 75. it's been history's most remarkable, successful alliance. but there is a but. one is the specter of donald trump hovers over the proceedings, in part because trump is a candidate who, unlike most presidential candidates, indeed, any presidential candidate in the modern era, doesn't share any of the foreign policy consensus. any other candidate imaginable, just about, would be a supporter of nato. he's not. people there can read the polls. there's also real concern about president biden. people at the summit are going

to be putting him under a microscope, to watch everything he does and says and how he walks. essentially, they're looking for reassurance. the hidden consensus is they'd overwhelmingly prefer continuity, and they're frightened of change. let me turn it to ian. one of the bzezinskis i haven't disagreed with this morning, so it is important to spread it around the family. what do you think nato is prepared to do, and do you think it is prepared to do enough, either on the amount of spending but also on how the money is spent? nato spends a lot of money if you add up all the national budgets, but the whole is less than the sum of its parts. you don't get that amount of collective defense effort. how serious are the europeans about a collective european defense effort? >> thanks, richard. good to see you. good to see mika and joe and anne, of course. let me just say that, you know, the pictures we saw, those were

war crimes committed by the russians. that is unjustified brutality. at this summit, the issue is how is the alliance going to respond? will it provide, will it present a strategy that will enable ukraine to win quickly, decisively, and on its terms? to your question, you know, does nato have the resources to apply it? i'm not entirely convinced this summit is going to provide that strategy or the resources. they're talking about shifting the contact group that provides security assistance from u.s. control to nato control. that's useful and helpful but not decisive. they're talking about nato doing more training outside of ukraine. helpful but not decisive. they're talking about $40 billion just over the next year, uncertain what will happen after 2025. that's helpful but not decisive when it comes down to enabling ukraine to do what is necessary to win on its terms and quickly. because time is not on ukraine's side in this war. there's just too much of an

imbalance of economic and military power between ukraine and russia. this is a moment for the alliance to act with decision. it's underscored by the fact that the atrocities that russia is committing against the ukrainians just yesterday. >> anne, earlier this morning, we talked about a "wall street journal" op-ed by jerry baker about how labou won a crushing victory, in part because populists and conserve tys conservatives couldn't become aligned in britain. your piece is fascinating and a lesson that -- a critical lesson, going back to what you've been writing about for years. that is, how to defeat populism. you talk about two types of populism, actually, that labour was able to defeat. how did they do it? >> so, and this is relevant to the nato summit, too, of course.

what the labour party did was reform itself. led by keir starmer, who is now the prime minister, they moved it away from far-left positions that it had under the previous leader, jeremy corbyn, who lost a couple elections with those. they moved it not just to the center, but they moved it to economic, local, domestic issues. schools, hospitals, you know, what people think about when they wake up in the morning. they tried to reconnect it with ordinary voters. they talk about working people. they talk about service. you can hear it in all of their language, every labour politician i met last week, everybody i interviewed uses the same kind of language. at the same time, they use that language to fight the legacy of the previous tory governments who had used populism, nationalism, fear of immigrants

to create a kind of hysteria about the need to -- you know, for britain to defend itself from europe, from institutions. by refocusing on what people care about and by saying they want to show that labour is a reliable partner, it's a part of the world, we're going to trade normally with our neighbors, by doing that, they made labour a trustworthy party again, and they won. it's not an exact parallel to the u.s. at all. there's different voting systems and so on. but that instinct, what really matters is how we talk to people, why we should vote for us, you know, making yourselves electable in the best possible sense, is a way to defeat both this kind of sometimes madness on the left as well as the really dangerous right-wing populism we now have everywhere. >> ian, i guess the counterpart, again, in the american example

to what anne was outlining there is that the republican party has basically abandoned the sort of, you know, traditional conservative neoliberal economic agenda and gone full in on the populism. yet, the polls going into the election here in the uk showed labour way ahead. the polls in the u.s. show the republican party and its standardbearer, donald trump, and joe biden almost neck in neck and continue to do that. does the american voting public, traditional republican public, have they jettisoned those principles of economics, as well, unlike voters in the uk, or do you think we'll see something in november that suggests more of a uk model? >> you know, when you look at polling, it's clear that the maga elite, leaders, donald trump and his senior advisors, bring a certain nativism to their policies and their

outlook. for example, on nato, since we have the summit coming up. when you look at polling broadly, including in the republican party, most americans are transatlantic in their outlook. polling just came out from the council, the chicago council on global affairs. 80% of americans think we ought to sustain our commitment to nato or improve it. mac thiessen has a great piece in "the washington post" that focused on the maga population, those who support donald trump. they're actually transatlantic in outlook. so when you look forward, whoever wins this election is going to be resting on an american population that's internationalist in outlook and very committed to nato. now, what the elite does in that context is a little bit uncertain. we'll see, and it'll depend on what the election is. if it is biden, there will be continuity. if it is trump, even with this american outlook, we could have a rocky time in the alliance.

>> you know, what's so fascinating is, in donald trump's first term, you had him saying, obviously, hostile things about nato time and time again, always trying to apologize for vladimir putin. again, i await a statement of him harshly condemning putin for blowing up children in hospitals. we'll see if that happens. but you had a republican senate that maintained a very hard line against russia and against putin. there's good reason to fear that wouldn't be the case -- >> right. >> -- in the second term when you see what people like marco rubio and others are saying. jd vance. they actually seem to be moving further and further away frombe life, and their party believed. as ian said, nativism, donald trump talking about tariffs.

"the wall street journal" talking about donald trump's tariffs. anti-immigration. i think republicans, myself included, have always been against illegal immigration. even expanding what republicans have always wanted, what ronald reagan talked about, being a nation of immigrants for economic reasons as well as spiritual reasons. regarding the spirit of this nation, it just doesn't exist in donald trump's republican party. >> senior fellow at the atlantic council, ian brzezinski. and "the atlantic's" anne applebaum, thank you, both, for being on this morning. >> thank you. >> thank you for previewing the summit this week. coming up, fans may or may not have been booing novak djokovic during his fourth round win at wimbledon yesterday. we'll explain the last name of his opponent, which may have been to blame. that's straight ahead on "morning joe."

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welcome back. seven-time wimbledon champ novak djokovic breezed by rune in straight sets last night. >> rune! >> then admonished the crowd over perceived boos during the fourth round match. >> to all those people that have chosen to disrespect the player, in this case me, have a good night! >> i'm hoping they were just commenting on rune and that they weren't disrespecting you. >> they were. they were. they were. i don't accept it. no, no, no. i know they were cheering for rune, but that is an excuse to also boo. listen, i've been on the tour more than 20 year. i know the tricks. i know how it works. it's fine. it's okay. >> i mean, what a whiner. >> rune's supporters stretch out

his name when cheering for him, which sounded a lot like booing. i'm with him. i agree. >> oh, come on. >> they were doing it to goad him, in a goading manner. i know exactly what that's like. >> rune, rune. they were not. >> yeah, they were. to distract him and stuff. >> just win. >> he did. >> yeah, but just win and, like, smile. >> he did. >> tip your hat to the crowd. still ahead, congressional black caucus chair congresswoman yvette clarke will be here to talk about last night's meeting with president biden. plus, national security spokesman john kirby with a preview of what to expect today when nato allies visit washington, d.c. for a historic three-day summit. we're back in 90 seconds. the moment i met him i knew he was my soulmate. "soulmates." soulmate! [giggles] why do you need me? [laughs sarcastically] but then we switched to t-mobile 5g home internet.

and now his attention is spent elsewhere. but i'm thinking of her the whole time. that's so much worse. why is that thing in bed with you? this is where it gets the best signal from the cell tower! i've tried everywhere else in the house! there's always a new excuse. well if we got xfinity you wouldn't have to mess around with the connection. therapy's tough, huh? -mmm. it's like a lot about me. [laughs] a home router should never be a home wrecker. oo this is a good book title.

seems like joe is staying in the race. today, the president proved his resolve by sending his doubters in congress a letter. yes, a letter. if that doesn't work, he'll follow up with a strongly worded telegram. i am not going to stop. stop. so stop. stop. to keep his energy up, biden told the group he now plans to stop scheduling events after 8:00 p.m. 8:00 p.m.? so the state dinners are all

going to be early bird specials? also, which 8:00 p.m., sir? east coast, west coast, moscow? the world does not stop at 8:00 p.m. is kamala harris going to have to clock in as night president? >> all right. welcome back to "morning joe." it is tuesday, july 9th. katty kay is still with us. joining the conversation, we have katty's co-host for the podcast, "the rest is politics u.s." managing partner at skybridge capital, anthony scaramucci. author of the new book entitled "from wall street to the white house and back." also with us, special correspondent at "vanity fair" and host of "the fast politics" podcast, molly jong-fast. she is an msnbc political analyst. >> molly, i love your take on what happened yesterday, specifically the buildup, obviously, being was congress came back into town, they were

going to pressure joe biden out of the race. for now, again, using sort of wimbledon speak, the president seemed to hold serve at least for a day. nato summit is coming into d.c. i doubt democrats are going to undermine him while world leaders are with the president. so where are we? where is the biden administration? where is the democratic base on this? >> so, again, look, this is all a question of data. we don't really have amazing data. we're all going on polls here, so we certainly see a groundswell of base that has voted for joe biden in the primary and feels that he is theirseeing that. it is a real phenomenon, a pushback. in a weird way, we're seeing a sort of -- i mean, what he was talking about when he called in yesterday about anti-elitism, it's not as much elitism as it is sort of anti-mainstream media. i take no pleasure in saying this as a member of the mainstream media, but you're seeing a pushback to editorial

boards, which we saw, you know, and i think that's kind of interesting and worthying about for a minute. we don't have crystal balls, can't predict the future, but for now it seems joe biden made a really good case to the people around him he is the person to do this job. again, we all have to be clear-eyed. the goal here is to resist authoritarianism. the goal here is to avoid another trump presidency. >> right. >> so the question is, who is the best person to make that case to america? joe biden thinks it's him. >> anthony, as two people that grew up in the republican party, we're used to our party going after the liberal media. it's very interesting, and i think maybe a successful play by a lifetime politician, to go after the media like joe biden is right now. he's got another "new york times" editorial this morning calling for him to get out of the race. how do you think it plays, and

what's biden's next move moving forward? >> well, we both grew up in the republican party, but we're also old enough to remember new coke. remember new coke, joe? >> yes. >> they launched it, said it was going to be a better flavor. i'm sure "the new york times" editorial board thought it tasted better than pepsi. but there was a revolt. what i was saying earlier today is that this is like the 1944 election got married to the 1948 election and had the baby of 2024. what do i mean by that? an ailing president, many don't think he can make out the term. he is running anyway. like harry truman in 1948, truman felt like he was under the gun as a result of the polls and the media the entire time, and then he goes on to beat governor dewy. i think it'd be a mistake. i'm in the stu stevens, former republican camp, to pull the incumbent. even though he may be 86 when he

gets to the end of his term, i just think if you pull him now, given the resistance he's provided. if he had said after the debate, i'm out. let's open up the convention or let's give it to vice president harris, it is a totally different story. but you guys know this. he is going with his instincts, and i think the party has to go with him as a result of that. i don't see any way out of that at this moment, joe. even if he has another verbal flop somewhere, i don't see any way out at this point. >> katty, nato meetings happening in washington. how concerned with foreign leaders about joe biden's health? >> i have heard some concerns. there were some concerns around g-7. there were some concerns in more normandy, as well. one european ally i spoke to just yesterday, elite from the country, said, look, it's like we're in a rock and a hard place. we really don't want donald trump re-elected. we have concerns about joe

biden's age and his ability to win the election in november. but the priority for most of america's european allies is not to see a return of donald trump to the white house. they, like everybody else, are sitting and waiting to see this play out. there are concerns, and i've heard this from european diplomats in washington, that all of this is being watched very closely by moscow and being watched very closely by beijing. chaos in the united states, whether it is not being able to pass a budget, whether it is not being able to keep the government open, whether it's not being able to rally support for ukraine, is a victory for president xi and for president putin. this is chaos in the united states. a white house physician is seeking to clarify questions swirling over president biden's neurological health. white house doctor kevin o'connor released a letter last night stating that president

biden had not seen a neurologist outside of his annual physicals. nbc news previously confirmed reporting from the "new york post" that said a parkinson's expert from walter reed national military medical center visited the white house at least eight times in eight months, according to public visitor logs. the visits by expert dr. kevin canard had raised questions that white house press secretary karine jean-pierre left largely unanswered during her daily press briefing yesterday afternoon. she confirmed that the president has met with a neurologist three times, once per year during his presidency, but wouldn't confirm the names of specialists that came to the white house, citing privacy reasons. that sparked this exchange with reporters. >> it's a very basic, direct question. >> wait, wait, hold on. hold on. wait, wait. >> he's come to the white house

eight times or at least once in regard to the president specifically. >> wait, hold on a second. >> something you should be able to answer at this point. >> no, no, wait a minute. ed, please. a little respect here, please. guys -- >> unless the white house answers the question. >> hold on a question. there is no reason to get -- go back and forth and be this aggressive way. >> we're a little miffed around here with how information has been shared with the press core. >> what are you miffed about? >> what he talked about. >> i also answer the question you asked. >> we have to incorrectly come back and -- >> i was asked about a medical exam, a physical. that was in the line of the questions i answered. >> the president himself denied any neurological disorders, like parkinson's, during our interview yesterday. here's what i asked him. >> mr. president, if anybody in my family had a night like that, like if my joe had a night like that or my kids or anybody, i

would probably want to do some sort of workup and make sure he's okay. have you been tested for any age-related illnesses, pre-parkinson's, or anything like that that might explain sort of having a night like that where you couldn't finish sentences? [ laughter ] >> look, i had before -- i was feeling so badly before the debate when i came back. they tested me for -- i thought maybe i had covid, maybe there was something wrong. i had an infection or something. they tested me, gave me the tests. i was clear. but, look, i had a bad night. the fact of the matter is, look at what i'm doing. let me put it this way. if there was something that was wrong that night, it's not like it's one night and it goes away. that's why i've been out. i've been testing myself and testing everywhere i go. >> okay. >> going out and making the

case. >> as for that letter released by a white house physician, kevin o'connor last night, it states that president biden had a physical in february and that he showed no signs of any neurological disorder, including parkinson's disease. the letter also detailed parkinson's expert dr. kevin canard's background as a neurology specialist and noted that he has been the neurology consultant to the white house medical unit since 2012. it also noted that dr. canard examined biden for each of his annual physicals, including the most recent one in february. nbc news has reached out to the doctor, and he has not yet responded to news outlets that have reported this story. so there goes that. any thoughts? >> well, i mean, it's -- molly,

questions just remain. you know, i'm not exactly sure, it sounds like the white house was fairly definitive, saying they've -- that parkinson's doctor met joe biden three times for the annual checkups. but i do wonder, and, again, it's maddening that democrats would have to be held to a different standard than republicans. donald trump, you know -- >> i have a lot of questions about his mental health. >> well, and -- >> i have a lot of questions about his mental health. >> you'll remember his doctor that did the independent medical evaluation. he was jeff bridges in -- >> i have questions about his criminality. >> okay. anyway, double standards. >> legitimate ones. >> it seems the logical thing to do would be independent medical evaluation. i suspect that won't happen.

but if that doesn't happen, how does the president get this behind him? >> so here's the fundamental question, right? are democrats being held to a different standard? they did release this letter, which was really good, i think. it said he'd been seen and showed no, you know, whatever, signs of a disease. but i think it is interesting, if you think back to 2016 and hillary clinton. there was an entire news cycle devoted to, does hillary clinton have parkinson's? it was not the news cycle devoted to, does hillary clinton have pneumonia. i want to point out that these are tropes, so many of what's happening here. again, i can't speak to his health. i have not done a medical exam. i don't know what's in the president's physical life, whatever that looks like, but i just want to point out, like, a lot of these -- we have seen a lot of these news cycles before, right? i mean, remember, there was a whole hillary, did she pass out? was she carried to the car? >> right. >> there was a whole thing with

that. i do think there is a fair amount of recycling going on here. that said, he is very old and, you know, he did stumble at the debate. you know, the man is not a gifted orator. but i think it is worthy thinking about how there's a lot of recycled stuff coming on. >> i know. it is not breaking news that he mangles words. >> well, he -- >> he doesn't speak eloquently. >> he's been doing that a long time. i do want to say, also, like, this job is a 24 hour a day job. >> yeah. >> we understand that. you know, when joe biden said that he needed to get upstairs and needed to, you know, rest -- >> show discipline. >> -- at 8:00, that's called discipline. with our little job, we have a very rigid schedule. you have to have a rigid schedule. white house is 24 hours a day. >> hard job. >> i said barack obama went upstairs at 6:00.

george w. bush went upstairs early. yeah, they watched a lot of espn, but they were also taking phone calls. they were also working. it's a 24 hour a day job. it's 24 hour a day job whether, you know, you're a republican or a democrat, whether you're, you know, 48 or 81. joining us now, the vice chair of the congressional black caucus, democratic congresswoman yvette clarke of new york. president biden met with the cbc last night to solidify the caucus' support for his candidacy. thank you so much for joining us this morning. tell us how the meeting went, and where does support lie for the president in the cbc? it appears to be pretty strong. tell us about it. >> great to be with you, joe and mika. let me just say that president biden was in rare form last evening. i think he was comfortable with the membership and the relationships that he has built

over his career with many of the members. certainly, presented the case for why he is staying in the race and asking for our support. i think that members were extremely receptive. i know that i'm team biden/harris. you know, we will move down the road supporting biden/harris and bringing them to victory. >> congresswoman, what conversations are you having with fellow members who are not in the congressional black caucus and who have expressed doubts about president biden staying in the race? what conversations are you having with them about why he should stay in? >> well, first of all, there are many members just coming back from recess, but we've had a number of conversations about what it means to look at a contested battle at this stage of the election cycle.

we have a lot of accomplishments that have been gained in the biden/harris administration. we just need to make sure that the american people are aware. certainly, the contrast is glaring between what the biden/harris administration has done for the american people, with respect to donald trump and his failed presidency. there's no doubt that when we hit the road, when we come out of our convention, the electricity that will be in the air will give us the momentum we need to bring this victory home. >> congresswoman, if you could, explain to our viewers about joe biden and the special affinity, the special connection joe biden has with so many black americans. we've talked about it on this show repeatedly, of course. everybody talks about jim clyburn in 2020. but we always talked about the

black women of atlanta, the black women of philadelphia, the black women of detroit, the black women of milwaukee, who literally, for those of us who believe donald trump is the existential threat to american democracy, who literally put this democracy on their backs and carried it across the finish line in 2020. i'm wondering, what is it about joe biden that now has even the congressional black caucus out front saying, this is our leader. we will be with him shoulder to shoulder. >> i think that it's the fact that joe biden came from the working class. his lived experience has been in a variety of spaces where black women, black families have been alongside him. he's had an opportunity to see the struggles, the challenges, and has been a leader in our nation for decades now. he has seen how we've gone

through the civil rights movement, how we've gotten to the point where we're making a more perfect union, and standing alongside joe biden in doing this have been many civil rights leaders along the way. so we know our histories have been tied with someone who gets it, someone who understands that, you know, we are americans that love our country and that want to do everything we can to bring justice, fairness, to bring equality to a civil society that is multi-cultural, multi-racial, multi-religious. joe biden gets it, and we feel that. we've seen that, and it is very evident through the policies that he's pursued along side the congress. >> all right. vice chair of the congressional black caucus, congresswoman yvette clarke, thank you so much for being with us today. we greatly appreciate it.

>> good to have you. >> we appreciate your service to america. >> i appreciate you two, as well. have a wonderful day. thank you. >> you too. thank you so much. anthony, i think this is an appropriate question for you. willie and i always talk about how there's this -- and this is something anne applebaum said, there's always sort of this simplification of what a trump voter is. it's somebody that walks out of, you know, their trailer and gets on their old harley and, you know, blue collar, tattoos all over the place, blah, blah, blah. they hate this. they hate that. willie and i say, you know, and anne always says, that's a gross oversimplification of who populists are. we talk about, willie and i, about a lot of our friends, and also people we know in our communities, you know, that will

drive their, you know, range rovers or they'll drive the maseratis or porsches. >> mm-hmm. >> they'll get out at their country club richer than they've ever been, richer than they've ever been, just beyond their wildest dream. they're golfing and making hundreds of thousands on the market, record high. saying, he's a socialist, this and that. so of that subset, and i know some of these people, too, there are double haters in that group of people you that. they say, oh, i hate donald trump. he's such a jerk. i don't know if i can vote for joe biden. the election is going to hinge on moving those people out of the middle toward joe biden. based on all you know, based on your experiences, based on who you talk to and what you see in that community, tell me, what does a biden campaign need to do

to move the double haters in that area, in that demographic toward joe biden? >> i'll say three quick things. number one, i was there, joe. 2016, i supported president trump, and i did the cursory analysis that some of the silicon valley billionaires are doing related to donald trump. they're going to get this woefully wrong because of his nature and what his real policies are. he tries to disavow project 2025, but all of his team is on it. it's a dystopian idea for america. so we have to impress that upon them. i think really, for president biden and his team, i'm going to be in washington tomorrow with mark cuban and ro khanna discussing with members of his team the cryptocurrency strategy. i would just recommend to the team to just get in the middle. the american people want centrism. the american people want policy that's based on right or wrong

as opposed to hard left or hard right. joe biden, frankly, president biden has represented that for five decades. so my message would be, stay on that message. hammer that home. you'll get enough of those people. i just want to finish with this one thought. trump is like a kaleidoscope. those people you mentioned that have the tattoos and the range rovers, they're a part of his story because of the way he speaks. he's the only person in american politics that can say two contradictory things simultaneously and get away with it. so we have to ask ourselves how he is capable of doing that, and is there a way to undermine him with those groups that are still fence sitters or sort of not sure which way they want to go. >> katty kay, are you still -- you still able to work with anthony all right? has he -- how many scaramuccis has it been now that the podcast

has been going? >> it's been six scaramuccis, joe. i was prepared for that. six scaramuccis. >> every single one has been a winner. look, it is going great. i'm loving doing it with anthony. he is generous. my sister texted me, who knows nothing about american politics. she texted me last night, and i'll show you, anthony, saying, the podcast is perfect. she loves the way anthony calls me katty kay. there is something endearing about it. i think it may be distinguishing from any other kattys on the program. >> i like the alliteration. it sounds cool. >> it's great. >> okay. >> i love it. >> anthony scaramucci, thank you very much for being on this morning. >> podcast is incredible. >> we love the pod. ahead on "morning joe," white house national security spokesman john kirby joins us with a preview of what to expect as president biden welcomes world leaders to washington today for the nato summit. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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brave men overcome obstacles that seem insurmountable and forces that seem overwhelming. men with courage and vision can still determine their own destiny. they can choose slavery or freedom. war or peace.

i have no doubt which they will choose. >> that was then president harry truman speaking to world leaders at the nato signing ceremony back in 1949. today, leaders will gather in that same auditorium in washington, d.c., to mark 75 years since the world's most powerful security alliance was formed. >> with us now, white house national security communications adviser and assistant to the president, retired rear admiral john kirby. admiral, thank you so much for being with us. what is your top goal? what is the president's top goal to get accomplished in this nato conference? >> probably the most important thing that they're going to accomplish here over the next couple of days is reaffirming collective nato support to ukraine and for the fight they're in on the european continent. the largest conflict since the end of world war ii. it's really important that the world see them, mr. putin sees,

that nato is not going anywhere. nato is a defensive alliance. we're going to stand united. we're going to continue to bolster our capabilities. we're going to continue, as an alliance, to make sure ukraine has what it needs. >> well, you know, admiral, it had seemed, we'd been hearing great news last year about european governments agreeing, as well as japan, agreeing to pay more of their budgets in defense spending. we heard more and more had reached the 2% threshold. yet, a lot of reports leading into this nato conference that europe is lagging woefully behind, especially the germans. you know, right after the invasion, we'd heard the germans saying they were going to step forward and actually spend more on their defense budget than the russians. that's not happening. the u.s. is still carrying the disproportionate share. what needs to be done? how much closer to their

doorstep does this have to be before all european countries start carrying the burden anne long with the united states? >> joe, i'd argue that they are stepping up. now, there are about seven or eight of the nato allies that aren't at the 2% level of spending on defense, 2% of their gross domestic product, but most of them, almost all of them have a plan to get there. they're working their way to it. that includes germany. when the president took office, nine ally, only nine nato allies, were meeting the 2% pledge. now, today, 23 of them are. there's been progress made. now, i don't want to sound pollyannish, joe. obvious, there's more work that needs to be done. more of the countries need to spend an appropriate amount on the defense. the alliance is more relevant and stronger than ever before, and i want to keep it that way. one of the messages you'll hear from the president at the summit this week is obviously gratitude for those nations who have

stepped up but urging those that still haven't got therein to make sure they do. >> admiral, obviously, the backdrop among many, the two wars, israel but also the latest news out of ukraine. among other buildings, a children's hospital was obliterated. i'm wondering what tangible results, what tangibly can be considered at this nato conference to shore up ukraine at a time like this? >> one of the things we're going to be focusing on very keenly this week is air defense, mika. you're going to see some announcements here in the next day or so from the alliance, from allies in particular, and from the united states, about what we're going to do to increase air defense capabilities for ukraine. particularly long-range air defense capabilities so that they can better defeat these attacks. the death toll, you just saw the number this morning from those attacks over the weekend, have risen to about 46 known killed.

that will probably run a little bit higher. what mr. putin is doing is consistent with what he's been trying to do now the last couple years, terrorize the ukrainian people, go after their infrastructure, go after their energy grid, with absolutely zero concern about the civilian casualies he is causing. it is part of the playbook, to cause casualties to break the will of the ukrainian people. what you'll see from the allies this week is every effort we can put forward to help them get the capabilities they need to defend themselves. >> admiral, when you look at the pictures from ukraine, those awful pictures of the hospital, it's understandable why the ukrainians would like to have some kind of timeline guarantee for their succession to nato so they can get the security umbrella nato offered. that's what president zelenskyy would like to get out of this meeting, an actual timeline. why do you feel the nato body and the white house can't give him that timeline now? >> well, there's a war going on.

i mean, it is difficult to provide some kind of set schedule when he and his forces and his people are still fighting for their very lives and their livelihoods, for their country. the focus rightly has to be on helping them win the conflict. i'll say a couple other things. you will hear a very strong reaffirmation by nato allies this week about the fact that the alliance is definitely going to be in ukraine's future. no question about that. you're going to hear about what the bridge to nato is going to look like, more specifically. just as critically, you're going to see the countries, all of them who have signed bilateral security agreements with ukraine, including the united states, just did it a couple weeks ago, meet together to flush out plans to make real the bilateral security agreements, to make tangible the commitments we're making to ensure ukraine's defense after the war is over. however the war ends, whenever it ends, and we don't know when, they're still going to have a long border with russia. they'll still have a very

significant defense need with an aggressive neighbor next door. they'll need to know, and they will, the international community will stand beside them and continue to provide them the defense capabilities and the ability to improve their defense industrial base to meet that need. >> really quickly, admiral, before we let you go, we know you've got a tight schedule today, but you look at the fact that the united states and our nato allies have a combined gdp of $54 trillion. $54 trillion annually. compared to russia's 1.3, 1.4, $1.5 trillion. with a little bit of work and a little bit of investment, i mean, this -- >> yeah. >> we can still, democracy still can prevail here. again, what's the president's message to our allies? >> that they need to continue to improve their defense spending. they need to meet, if they can,

and exceed the 2% pledge. they need to continue to stay strong and united in the face of putin's aggression. and, quite frankly, we need to start investing -- >> is germany doing enough, admiral? >> germany has -- they can do more, joe, no question about it. they've said so themselves. chancellor olaf scholz said it himself, they have a plan. all the countries not at 2%, almost all of them, have plans to get there, taking it seriously. they're looking at what putin i security landscape? they're trying to step up. >> communications adviser and assistant to the president retired rear admiral john kirby. good to have you on the show. >> thank you so much. >> thank you for coming on. >> thanks, guys. good to be with you. coming up -- thanks. "new york times" best selling author daniel silva. >> this is big, baby! >> joins us for a new murder

mystery. >> come on! >> the 24th book in his spy series. >> you know what they call him, other than a writer and former journalist? >> what? >> the godfather of "morning joe." >> good lord. >> it was daniel. it was daniel and his lovely wife. >> the godmother of "morning joe." >> who called phil griffin after we were on the air for about 15 minutes. >> oh, boy. >> 17 years ago. said, "i don't know what you guys are doing, but sign them up fast." >> 17 years? >> this show -- yeah, jamie and daniel said, sign them up now. >> we'll be right back.

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♪♪ welcome back to "morning joe." >> it's 43 past the hour. "new york times" bestselling author daniel silva is out with a new mystery, "a death in cornwall." it follows the murder investigation of an art history professor that leads spy and art restorer, gabriel, to uncover unsavory secrets about britain's conservative government. >> daniel joins us now. it's probably been a decade since we told this story, so you need to tell the story about how -- >> to a new generation of "morning joe" viewers. >> of those suffering from "morning joe." >> we're sorry. >> that you're responsible for people having to listen.

>> jamie is. >> you want me to tell the story, to go back in time? >> yeah. >> we were talking about it a moment ago. it has its origins. the origin story is the don debacle. don't need to relive the details. the network was left with a big hole in its morning programming. i was a fan of this program that was on at -- i think joe's program, "scarborough country" was on at 8:30, the worst start time. >> you watched "scarborough country"? >> on saturday nights. i recognized in joe this fluent conversation, this irony. >> see? >> i thought he was a perfect morning host. i paired him with this one, and that was my pick. >> can you say what you said to me during the break? >> i don't know. [ laughter ] >> i don't know, molly.

>> you said mika was the perfect foil. >> the perfect foil. >> yeah. >> it was a perfect match, the two of them, and it worked instantly. >> it is. it is. >> now, here we are, all three of us back together. >> feeling kind of old. >> 17 years later. and she is. it is wonderful. wherever i go, anywhere in the country, people come up and go, "oh, it is so great to meet you. where's mika?" she's not here. "well, we like you. we love mika." >> come on. >> like you said, perfect. not just perfect foil but perfect leader of "morning mika." katty kay, like the rest of us, is a massive fan, but she insisted that she have the first question. katty? >> gabriel back for the summer. this is the day i welcome forward to every summer.

i'm a huge fan of yours. it's like the dan silva book of the summer is always waited for in my house. did you call rishi sunak and say, call up an election and the conservative party is out of office. i'm doing a spy book on money laundering in london. >> the timing was fortuitous. when i was writing the book, i wrote it with the assumption that it was going to be a fall or winter election. but i did have a sneaking suspicion that rishi might go ahead and pull the trigger for the july election, because i thought he really faced the possibility of being run out on a rail. i thought that that might influence his decision to go early or not. i missed it by, i guess, five days. i did get the election call

right. it was a complete and utter annihilation. you know, unheard of in british political history. as you know, katty, this is not some fringe party we are talking about. this is the conservative party, the oldest, most successful political party in the west. it has governed britain for two-thirds of its existence. really, this book was inspired by that chaotic period in 2022 where we had three british prime ministers in a period of seven weeks, as you remember. unprecedented turbulence in british political history. i wanted to capture some of that in the book. >> i haven't read it yet, obviously, dan, but it sounds like it is kind of more a political book than some of your others. i want to ask about gabriel alan. i can't believe there are people who haven't read your books, but there may be one or two.

what is the enduring secret fascination and appeal of success of that character? >> there are two unique and different sides of his character. he was both an intelligence officer and that his cover job was that he was an art restorer. he is a world-class art restorer. he operated for years under an assumed identity. i made a subtle shift in the book the last few entries where he is an art restorer who used to be an intelligence officer. it is a small but subtle shift. this book is -- he is operating, you know, outside his old intelligence service, working as, in effect, a consultant to the british police, helping with a murder investigation. it gets him in the middle of a conservative party political scandal.

>> daniel, you were a political journalist, producer. >> i was. >> explain to us how that job influences what you do now. just this sort of synchronicity. >> i think that there's no question that my background as a journalist has influenced my writing to a tremendous degree. my books are set in the real world, one or two steps removed. i feel most comfortable writing about current issues. i think that, for better or worse, this little series of mine has chronicled the crazy first 25 years of this millennium. it's gone from the collapse of the oslo peace process, through 9/11 and the global war on terrorism, the rise of putinism, which gabriel was on the front lines of that, the rise of isis, which he was on the front lines of that. i really managed to, i think, you know, use him as sort of a

viewpoint or window under our current history. current history. great to have you. could the presidential election be determined by one man in nebraska? we'll explain who that is and why his vote might make all the difference in november. that's next on "morning joe." we're back in two minutes. the world might not be ready for them... ...but at $3 a pop? your wallet definitely is.

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nebraska republicans might try to make the state winner takes all when it comes to awarding electoral votes in the upcoming presidential election, which could make biden win mathematically difficult. nebraska lawmakers are set to address property taxes in this upcoming special session, but the state's republican governor

is signaling he will see if he has the votes to take up the issue of changing nebraska's atypical system of splitting its five presidential electoral votes. if biden wins, key battleground states, wisconsin, michigan, and pennsylvania, an electoral vote from nebraska would give him the 270 electoral votes he needs to win even if trump takes all the other swing states. if they change to the winner takes all system, the math becomes much more difficult for biden. editor at large at news week and cnbc founder tom rogers has a new piece on this issue. he joins us now. >> tom, didn't the legislature take a pass at this earlier in the year, or maybe within the last year, and it failed? >> yes, joe, you are absolutely right. earlier in the year they took a

shot at this. it didn't work. two key things have changed. one, it really does look, whether it's biden or another democratic nominee, the path to victory for the democrats is you've got to win the blue wall, michigan, wisconsin, pennsylvania. that only gets you to 269. the one additional electoral vote that lets to the magic 270 has been assumed to be nebraska second electoral district. that's no easy task. omaha, the major city in that district, a has a republican mayor. the district has a republican congressman. what's really dire is the other thing that changed. the other thing that changed is a democratic state senator by the name of mike mcdonald changed his party affiliation since then to republican. and that gives the republicans the 33 votes they need to stop a

democratic filibuster. and with that they would have the ability to get this done and existential threat deprive the democrats of a path to win. >> explain to us sort of the minutia here of how there is a way to push back on this, that citizens have an opportunity. explain that to us. >> well. >> there are two citizens organizations, civic nebraska and nebraska votes, which are circulating petitions that need 120,000 signatures run by a former democratic state senator by the name of adam, who has his finger in the dike here. if they are able to do that, they would be able to keep this going into effect for this election cycle. but there is a countermove, and the countermove is the republicans can pass an emergency clause. so even if they get this done sooner than the 90 days

necessary usually, they would be able to change the system for this election. that's really serious because the same 33 votes to cut off the filibuster would be effective there. so they need a lot of support to try to influence mike mcdonald and maybe a couple other retiring republican senators who might be willing to vote against an emergency clause. there is one other move, and that is maine. maine is the only other state that has this system of allocating electoral votes by congressional district. and they have a republican congressional district that if they went winner take all like nebraska's planning to do, republicans would lose that electoral vote that they have had for the last couple of elections. if that were -- for that to happen, they have to move by august 4th. maine has been reluctant to move. there is very little time left. so all of this may be a function

of whether more feld and his groups exert enough pressure on a few senators, one in particular, to keep this emergency clause from happening. if they don't, i am really, really worried, no matter who the nominee is, and everything we are talking about, the democrats can't win. and with everything going on, nobody has their eye on this, and it could be the entire election. >> we will be reading the new piece online now for news week. tom rogers, as always, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> for coming on this morning. take care. thank you, molly. still ahead on "morning joe," a live report from capitol hill as president biden seeks to reassure democratic donors and lawmakers he can beat donald trump in november. plus, our conversation with actor bestselling author and

rock & roll hall of famer stevie van zandt, who is calling out the fbi for what he sees as a gross miscarriage of justice. he will explain that ahead. we are back in two minutes with a packed third hour of "morning joe." here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need... ...without the stuff you don't. so, here's to now. boost.

the media has spent almost two weeks calling on a candidate to drop out of the race and somehow it's not a convicted felon. biden is brushing everyone off. people have been telling me not to run for president since 1988. i think i know what i'm doing. >> good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is tuesday, july 9th. along with us we have u.s. special correspondent for bbc news caddy kay, richard haass is with us, pulitzer prize-winning columnist of the "washington post" eugene robinson and managing editor at the bulwark,

also way too early duties this morning, sam stein. >> you know, pretty incredible what's been happening. by the way, i found out this morning, "wall street journal" editorial page, we were relieved to say the president didn't say we were elites. dumb country lawyer. i mean, come on. nothing elite about me. katty kay can confirm. also, let's just try to get some organization here. >> people coming up going, i hope you mika are okay. some right wing something said we were fighting each other over joe biden and got testy. >> we have a semi vigorous debate. >> you should see at home when she tells me to take out the trash at ten at night.

that's when it gets testy. >> no, i mean, seriously. we have had bigger debates. >> we have. all right. we are fine. could we hug each other on air? >> no. >> so katty, coming into this week, i have been hearing, my god, from source after source after source that this was the week. like the biden campaign, the white house h democratic leaders, press people, those who have known joe biden for a long time, family members all said last week, this coming week is when it's going to get really ugly because there is going to be mass defections, there are going to be letters. democrats are going to only out by the dozens and speak out against joe biden. we are taking this day by day by day. i must say, yesterday the letter, then he came on this show, he called donors. i do think by the end of the day the white house had to be

thinking, all right, we stopped the dam from breaking. there are eight or nine defections in the house. the senate is gum lipg still, but day one they seemed to at least hold serve, so to speak. >> yeah, i spoke to several people yesterday who said they wished he had done what he did yesterday starting on your show with the letter to congress and reach out to donors earlier. my reporting is that the president himself was pretty rocked by that debate performance and it took time for him to recognize what he needed to do. i don't know that we can say that the dam has totally held or will completely hold permanently. there are certainly a lot of people who are allies of the president, supporters who still have questions about his long-term capability of prosecuting this race in a way that would give the democrats the maximum chance of beating

donald trump in november and i don't think those questions have necessarily stopped. i have spoken to some people up on capitol hill who don't love the comments about the elites, a slightly dismissive tone from the campaign about members of congress. but i think everybody still wants reassurance that joe biden is the best democrat to run against downtown. it's very messy. if you have been hearing this, it's messy. this is chemotherapy if everyone would like to listen. but it's messy. and i'm not sure we are in a position we can say it is absolutely clear that joe biden is going to still the democratic nominee or that democrats are necessarily happy. it's not just elites. we have had the polls for months and months showing that the american public has concerns about his age. i am in europe. european allies have concerns about his age.

yesterday he did what a lot of democrats had been asking him to do. >> speaking of europe, for the reading list at home this morning, folks, the "new york times" has a great column on how what happened in france on sunday was nothing short of shocking and jerry baker with "the wall street journal" talks about what conservatives can learn from labour's massive victories. we will be talking about that later on. gene robinson, you know survival is one thing. stopping an autocrat from becoming president of the united states and upending 240 years of constitutional norms is quite another. i will say i, again, taking a lot of calls, took a lot of

calls from angry democrats. they were donors. they were elites. what joe biden would rightly call elites. and by the way, that is a perfect positioning for joe biden. flash flood you have been in politics 54 years and you're 81 years old and you have been a politician since you are 29 and you can run a campaign against elites, come on, take that baby. like, that's a great -- but that said, there are some really angry people. we will read an op-ed from the economist, just came straight out and said he was lied to by the biden people, lied to by jeffrey katzenberg, lied to by everybody, you know, hollywood raised $30 million for joe biden. so there is anger out there. "the new york times" editorial page once again saying step down, mr. president. we will raerd from that. so, yes, joe biden can survive,

but there is a lot of work to do in a little bit of time. yeah, there is. >> you're right that the idea of joe biden, who has been a major political figure for his entire life running against the democratic party establishment is, i think the technical term is malarky, kind of crazy. but he is able to do it and he is doing it, and we are going day by day. he won the day yesterday, clearly, because there were not new -- there was not a -- even a trickle of new defections to say nothing of a flood. the dam did not break. and so it held and he gets -- today he gets to fight another day, and he probably gets a bit of a respite. he has the nato summit going on the next three days. it's hard for me to imagine a lot of people, a lot of democrats really relishing the

idea of attacking the sitting president while he is doing a nato summit, while he is conducting foreign policy. >> exactly. gene, that's a great point. i am glad you brought that up. underline that fact, okay? so he gets through today. now a nato summit takes the middle of the week. there is no way anybody is going to undermine the president in their own party while he is meeting with nato leaders about the future of freedom in europe. so maybe that has brought him two, two and a half more days? >> exactly. that brings him to the press conference he is scheduled on thursday to have, which he needs to perform well. he needs to perform a whole lot better than he did in that debate. and that will not be enough for all of the people who say it's

time for joe biden to withdraw, to step aside. perhaps for kamala harris. perhaps for some sort of more open process involving delegates. it won't be enough, but it will be enough for some, and again it will buy him more time. and he just reminded everybody with that letter and his appearance on "morning joe" yesterday morning that he does hold the cards here. i mean, this is -- >> yeah, all of them. >> he holds all of them. and so if you are going to get him out, you are going to have to push. you are going to have to convince. you are going to have to push. but he is going to have to make the decision, and his decision right now is he is in the race to stay. >> yeah. well, i mean, joe biden before all of this happened was 81 years old and people had concerns about his age. and he is still 81 years old and

people have concerns about his age no matter what he does. before the debate, donald trump was crazy. he had dictator type tendencies to quote the president. he is a pathological liar. he is a fraud. a proven fraud. a bigot. all those things are still the same today. yet we are spending all of this time -- it's got to be frustrating for those who believe in this race and believe that there are very two clear choices here to hear this conversation going on and on. having said that, following his letter yesterday to congressional democrats in which he forcefully affirmed he is staying in the race and his call-in interview with us on "morning joe," president biden looked to reassure -- reassuring donors n a call with the biden victory fund finance committee he thanked his biggest contributors and urged them to move past last month's debate and focus on donald trump instead, saying, we can't waste

any more time being distracted. the president told the group he is the best person to beat trump and he is not going away. biden also spent a few minutes answering questions, including what his strategy will be for the next debate. the president responded, quote, attack, attack, attack. >> which is what democrats want to hear. >> yeah. then the congressional hispanic caucus, which is reaffirming support behind president biden, though some caucus members have either called for biden to drop out of the race or said they were concerned. the caucus as a whole released a statement that reads in part, quote, we stand with president biden and vice president kamala harris. for the last year and a half, the biden/harris administration partnered with the congressional hispanic caucus' initiative to take the chc on the road. through that initiative, we have worked to empower latino communities across the country. a meeting between biden and the congressional hispanic caucus

has reportedly in the works. no word yet on when it is supposed to take place. a meeting did take place last night between biden and members of the congressional black caucus. biden spoke the group virtually for 20 minutes and touched on issues such as uplifting black america and growing wealth, housing and taxing the ultra wealthy. members reassured biden they still support him amid his debate fallout. here is how the meet wags described. >> president was clear he is in this race to win. we have one objective, to win. this president is fit and prepared to continue to serve. he is civil and he is experienced. the opposite side offers us nothing but chaos and extremism. to be clear, president biden is our nominee. the vice president kamala harris is his running mate. they are the team that will

ensure that we move america forward and there will be no other nominee. than president biden. >> and later this morning, house democrats are set to hold a caucus-wide meeting. here is some of whatever key leaders and members are saying about biden's candidacy ahead of the gathering. >> i made it clear publicly the day after the debate that i support president joe biden and the democratic ticket. my position has not changed. >> that's biden and the democratic ticket. do you support biden on the ticket or just biden and whatever the ticket is? >> same answer. >> we have a great president, working with us, a great record of achievement. and i'm hopeful that he will be the next president of the united states. >> i have spoken to the president over the weekend. i have spoken with him extensively. he made clear then and he has

made clear since that he is in this race. the matter is closed. he had reiterated that this morning. he has reiterated that to the public. joe biden is our nominee. he is not leaving this race. he is in this race and i support him. >> i really do believe that the more members of our caucus who speak directly to him, the more confident they will feel. so i have encouraged the white house to make sure that the president does as much outreach as possible, not the white house, but the campaign, the president does as much outreach as possible. >> i am not here to give advice to my colleagues. they have independent districts and things they feel they have to do. i think we should continue to have whatever conversations we need to have with our constituents, colleagues. we should have them in private. >> and sam stein, the last comment may have sounded, i know, like she didn't want to

answer the question or try to have it both ways, but that is politics. and that's the thing that hit me this weekend when people said, oh, the house democrats are -- house democrats are going to go back and push joe biden out. i mean, you know, i was last week a couple -- i said here a couple places, i was driving. my car window's down. some democrats yell, hey, take it easy on biden, joe. and you look on twitter, which has been a hotbed of angry far-right reactionaryism over the past five years or so. it's changed, man. there are some angry democrats out there. so all of that anecdotal, but i found in politics from a very early age enough anecdotes usually leads to pretty good data. eventually, i was thinking about

the house members, what are they hearing from constituents? chances are good they are saying be loyal to the president of the united states. and perhaps that may be why we are seeing more house democrats freeze. what have you heard in your reporting? >> same thing. you're right. eventually those anecdotes pile up to become something close to empirical, right? i talked to a house member. he said of all the conversations he had with voters, democratic voters, something like 80/20 split of people who really thought biden was getting an unfair shake sheer and shouldn't be pushed out of the race. more importantly, of the 80% predominantly african american women. that is the bedrock constituency of the party. it is notable not a single member has said anything about biden leaving the race. nor does it seem like they are going to.

it's maybe more notable i think that you have some of the progressives like abimbola "abel" osundairo alexandria ocasio-cortez saying they want to see biden stick it out. he doesn't have much credibility among progressives, right? they have been incredibly disheartened with the handling of the israel/hamas war. look, stick with this guy. that is a huge help for him going forward. he is not in the clear. we are cognizant that there is incredible pressure on him to prove that he has what it takes to bring the fight to trump. there is going to be a lot of eyes on that thursday press conference, you know, just the timing of it is incredible. but if you're the biden folks, this has gone about as well -- the last two days, i would say, gone about as well as you could have hoped. you called the party's bluff, made the outreach and seen the most important lawmakers that you need say stick with joe.

coming up, "the new york times" editorial board is doubling down on its call for president biden to leave the race. we'll talk to richard haass, who also believes democrats need a change at the top of the ticket. "morning joe" is back in a moment. (kev) yo, yo what's up everybody? how you doing? (reporter 1) kev! kev! can i get a response to the trade rumors? (kev) trade? trade means movin' man...we talkin' about moving? moving means contractors, inspectors, strangers judging my carpet. we talkin' about staging? we talkin' about a faux ficus? a faux ficus? nobody's gonna bring a faux ficus into my house... (reporter 2) you could use opendoor. sell your house directly to them, it's easy. (kev) ... i guess we're movin'. (reporters) kev! kev! (kev) whatchu gonna ask me about next, man? practice?

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"the new york times" editorial board has a new piece, the democratic party must speak the plain truth to the president. the board writes in part, quote, the 2024 presidential election is not a contest between two men, or even between two political parties. it is a battle for who we are as a nation. president biden clearly understands the stakes, but he seems to have lost track of his own role in this national drama. are as the situation has become more dire, he has come to regard himself as indispensable. he does not seem to understand he is now the problem and that the best hope for democrats to retain the white house is for him to step aside. >> yeah, richard -- what's wrong? >> okay. >> what? >> i am just, you know, i would think that also not saying on

the debate stage that you are willing to accept the election results would be a reason to write an editorial saying you are not fit to serve and run for president again. >> well, you know, the thing is, again, right now the issue is what happened the night of the debate on joe biden's side. >> that happened as well. >> it did happen as well. and it will be covered in time. but it needs to be covered more. "the new york times" blog should, you know, the obsession, bus people feel guilty about not seeing this early on, doesn't mean they have to overcompensate the next five months. so, but richard haass, i'm glad you're on that side of the screen. i will throw it to you and have you comment. do you feel any different than the last time you were on? do you agree with "the new york times," for the good of the country joe biden needs to step

down? >> it's one of those rare timesty do agree with "the new york times." it's different than asking whether the president will be the candidate. he probably will if he decides to hang tough. should he be the candidate is a different question. a couple reasons not. one is the structural moment. >> this is a bad, bad time for incumbents. you look at south africa, india, france, britain. four big elections. each case an anti-incumbent move. if you see donald trump as the threat many of us do, there is a big strike against him. look at this morning. if the whole idea is to make trump the issue, past record as president, congenital lying, his own physical and mental fitness for the job, i think it's going to be extremely hard for joe biden to press that case. as you said, any minor slip, any imperfection, joe biden is going to be the issue.

if the idea is to make this race about trump, which i think is necessary, if trump is to be defeated, i don't think joe biden is the person to accomplish that. anyone, you know, many of the other potential democrats would be better placed. also let's be honest here. i don't see how a person that's 86, four and a half years from now joe biden would be 86 going into the last three months of his presidency. i am hard pressed to see how he would be in a position to do the job. this is not an anti-joe biden rant. i respected him. i have been friends with him for 350 years. he has done a good job as president. is he the best candidate to beat donald trump? i would say not. is he in a position he serve effectively for four more years? probably not. the argument that the people have spoken, let's be real about the campaign. there was tremendous pressure from the white house pressuring other democrats not to get in the race. the argument was that will weaken joe biden against donald

trump. and a lot of people took that is to heart. i don't think now you can use the argument others didn't get in the days to say people had their chance and joe biden's the nominee. i just don't think that's fair. i think that a lot of democrats would have gotten into the race but were worried about they would look disloyal to weaken the democratic frontrunner. ahead, the latest from ukraine after a russian missile strike hits a children's hospital in kyiv. it comes as nato leaders get ready to meet in washington today with the ongoing war as a big concern. plus, how britain's new prime minister beat the far right and left by addressing real voters' problems. more on that. you are watching "morning joe." we are back in 90 seconds. we are back in 90 seconds.

we will celebrate our

alliance this week, the 75th anniversary. we will also make decisions for the future on the defense, showing that we have the forces, the readiness, capabilities we need to continue to deter any aggressor. and also ensure that allies continue to carry their fair share of the burden. and we have good numbers. allies are spending 2% of gdp on defense. up from three allies when we met back in 2014. >> that was nato's secretary general, the 75th nato summit kicks off today in washington, d.c. the war in ukraine will be a major topic among nato allies. yesterday russia launched a wide-scale missile attack across ukraine which caused massive damage to a children's hospital

in kyiv. video of the aftermath shows emergency crews trying to dig survivors out of the rubble of the destroyed building. ukraine's security service has accused russia of launching a missile directly at the hospital. russia denying that, saying the damage was caused by a falling air defense missile launched by ukraine. joining us senior fellow at the washington think tank, ian brzezinski and staffer writer at the atlantic i can anne applebaum. >> let me start with you. a year or so ago, we were looking at the situation in ukraine and seeing this as a moment of validation for nato. nato had been in the doldrums. we had sweden and finland joining the alliance. as you look at it today, those images from that hospital attack are just heart rending and you look at russia's position in ukraine and look at some of the

political fractions within nato, how does nato as it celebrates the 75th birthday, how is it standing and looking to you? >> so the point of this summit is going to be to show putin that nato will remain unified, and i think despite the various political headwinds that you just described, despite the recent election in france, despite what is happening in the united states, i think the nato -- i think it's incredible how unified the alliance is. the idea is to put some money into a basket for the future. what nato needs to do now is deter russia and show that there will be a price to pay for continuing the war and a price to pay if the war spreads farther. that's really the purpose of this summit. remember this war is a kind of psychological game. putin is actually running out of soldiers. he is losing equipment. he can't keep doing this forever. he is trying to hold on just

long enough for nato to break up. the point of the summit is to show it won't. >> richard, sam stein here. the backdrop of all of this, of course, what we were talking about earlier in the show. joe biden and his inability at this juncture to inspire confidence both domestically and the world stage, we have talked, seen european diplomats act as if he will not be president by next year. i wonder if you are picking that up, too, and how that colors the summit and supporting ukraine sense there is a shortened window to get something done or produce a resolution because trump may come back into power come january. >> sam, you're right. the reality of this summit is there is the formal engine agenda and there is the real agenda. the formal agenda is the bridge to the future for ukraine. they will be talking about greater european defense effort.

there is a lot to celebrate a nato at 75. it's been a successful alliance. there is a but. one is the ghost or spector of donald trump hovering over the proceedings in part because trump is a candidate who unlike most presidential candidates, any presidential candidate in the modern era doesn't share any of the foreign policy consensus. any other candidate imaginable just about would be a supporter of nato. he is not. and people there can read the polls. there is real concern about president biden. so people at the summit will be putting him under a microscope to watch everything he does and says and how he walks. essentially, are looking for reassurance. they would prefer continuity and they are frightened of change. let me turn it to ian. i one of the brzezinskis i haven't disagreed with this morning. what do you think nato is

prepared to do on -- do you think it's prepared to do enough either on the amount of spending, but also on how the money is spent? nato spends a lot of money, if you add up the national budgets. but the whole is less than the sum much its parts. you don't get that amount of collective defense effort. how serious are the europeans about a collective european defense effort? >> thank you. good to see you. let me say that those pictures we saw, those were war crimes committed bit the russians. that is unjustified brutality. at this summit, the key issue is, is the alliance going to respond. had it provide, will it present a strategy that will enable ukraine to win quickly, decisively, and on its terms. to your question, does nato have the resources to apply it, i am not convinced they will provide that strategy or resources. they are talking about shifting

the contact group that provides security assistance from u.s. control to nato control. that's useful and helpful but not decisive. nato doing more training outside ukraine. helpful but not decisive. $40 billion over the next year. uncertain what will happen after 2025. that's helpful but not decisive when it comes down to enabling ukraine do what is necessary to win on its terms and quickly because time is not on ukraine's side in this war. there is too much of an imbalance of economic and military power between ukraine and russia. this is a moment for the alliance to act with decision. it's underscored by the fact of the atrocities that russia is committing against the ukrainians just yesterday. >> yeah. so, anne, earlier this morning we talked about a "wall street journal" op-ed piece by jerry

bake better how labour won a crushing victory in part because populists and conservatives couldn't become aligned in britain. you write -- your piece is fascinating and a lesson, a critical lesson going back to what you have been writing about for years, how to defeat populism. you talk about two types of populism, actually, that labour was able to defeat. how did they do it? >> so, and this is relevant to the nato summit, too, of course. what the labour party did was reform itself and led by keir starmer, now the prime minister, they moved it away from the -- from far left positions under the previous leader who lost a couple of elections with those. they moved it not just to the center, but they moved it to economic, local, domestic issues. so schools, hospitals, you know,

what people think about when they wake up in the morning. they tried to reconnect it with ordinary voters. they talk about working people. they talk about service. you could hear it in all of their language, in every labour politician that i met last week, everybody i interviewed uses the same language. the same time they use that language to fight the legacy of the previous tori governments who used populism, nationalism, fear of immigrants to create a kind of hysteria about the need to, you know, for britain to defend itself, remove itself from europe, remove itself from institutions. by refocusing on what people care about and by -- saying they want to show that labour is a reliable partner, it's a part of -- it's a part of the world, we are going to trade normally with our neighbor, by doing that they made labour a trustworthy party again and they won.

and it's not an exact parallel to the u.s. at all. there are different voting systems and so on. but that instinct that what really matters is how we talk to people, you know, why they should vote for us, you know, making yourselves electable in the best possible sense is a way to defeat both this kind of sometimes madness on the left as well as the really dangerous right wing populism we have everywhere. coming up, nato in our fourth hour. when the prime minister of denmark joins our conversation. a preview of president biden's appearance at the conference. that's straight ahead on "morning joe." ning joe." i always wanted to know why i am the way i am. my curiosity led me to ancestry. it was amazing to see all the traits that i've gotten from my mother in my dna. it's a family thing. it's a family thing.

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native american activist leonard pelletier denied parole last week. he served nearly 50 years in prison after being convicted for the killing of two fbi agents. he maintains his innocence. fbi director christopher wray praise the decision saying, quote, he has been afforded his rights and due process time and time again and the weight of the evidence has supported his conviction and his life sentence.

let's bring in right now rock & roll hall of famer stevie van zandt. he is the author of a new opinion piece about pelletier's case titled a i deeply respect the fbi. it's in that spirit i say they are getting this very wrong. thank you so much for being with us on such an important topic. and i must say, what is so interesting is your respect. you have great respect for the fbi, for cops that you have met through the years, by people who are protecting us. so that's why when you write something like this and take a stand like this it really does -- it really does grab attention. talk about this case and how you got involved in it. >> well, i have been involved now, i wrote -- i did the research back in the '80s and i wrote a song, did a video around 1989. so i am like six presidents in on this thing. joe, it's the most outrageous

miscarriage of justice. short of an innocent person being executed, this is the most outrageous case i have heard of. 50 years next year in jail without one shred of evidence keeping him there. i mean, you know, the evidence was falsified. the witnesses were coerced. the ballistics tests showed his rifle did not fire the weapon that wasn't allowed into the case. and i just, i don't get it. the hoover fbi back then was a very, very different fbi. and i think christopher wray did a wonderful job, and merrick garland can take credit on turning the fbi around to one of the most respected organization into one of the most respected organizations in the world right now, something we can be proud of. no one talks about the context of this case. people act like two policemen

showed up in uniform, opened the door and somebody shot them. in 1993 the tribal chairman hired a bunch of vigilantes to go after the american indian movement and the traditional indians who were fighting for their rights like usual, and 60 indians were killed. i mean, it was a war going on. including my friend john trudell's house was burned. the hoover fbi was seeing a threat to democracy around every tree trunk and going after every progressive organization from

the american indian movement to the black panthers to the young records, you name it, cesar chavez. what confuses me is why would christopher wray feel like he has to defend the hoover fbi from those days? i don't get it. they were not the same organization that they are now. >> we have reverend al sharpton with us. rev has a question. >> stevie, thank you for talking about this issue. i think the way you frame it is people today don't understand the fbi of '73. they went after martin luther king. i mean, they were bugging martin

luther king. you're anti-what was done in that area and peltier is part of that. elaborate on that. >> i identify as an independent law and order liberal. hoover was just completely out of control in those days. the black panthers had a free breakfast program for the kids, as you know. they saw that as a threat to democracy. they put a microphone under martin luther king's bed to

destroy the civil rights movement. why would anybody want to defend that? i don't get it. this is a whole different fbi now. they are thwarting all kind of terrorism and keeping us alive, and we certainly appreciate that right now. i don't understand why they feel it necessary to defend an fbi that tried to literally destroy the civil rights movement, not just progressive movements. they shot fred hampton and mark clark in bed. it was just outrageous what was going on back then. it's very hard for people now -- i mean, how old was christopher wray, like 9 years old when this was going down?

the environment going on back then was very, very different than now. >> yeah, different context, different time, different place and radically different fbi. rock 'n roll hall of fame musician and activist stevie van zandt, thank you for being with us. you guys are lighting it up all across europe. it's crazy. european, european fans, you'd think they were all born in jersey. >> we're still getting bigger over here. it's a wonderful thing. you can't take it for granted. i appreciate it every single day. could i just say one more time, joe? >> sure.

>> you know, recently they released leslie van houten, a murderer who stabbed people. they released a couple mob guys that killed 11 people. they released the brothers who killed a forest ranger. how are we to think of this than as presidents against native americans? they're holding this guy with the flimsiest evidence in history. and multiple murders are being patrolled. how is it an 85-year-old man on a walker with medical programs isn't being patrolled? how else do you frame that than prejudice against native americans? n prejudice against native americans? surance policy of $100

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a growing number of democrats want biden to drop out. if he doesn't, their only plan is to tie a bunch of balloons to the white house and hope he floats away like the old man from "up." welcome to the fourth hour of "morning joe." it's 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. in the east. white house doctor kevin o'connor released a letter last night seeking to answer why a parkinson's specialist would visit the white house. >> reporter: the presidents doctors saying in a letter that the neurologist has examined

president biden for each of his annual exams, adding the president has not seen a neurologist outside of his annual physical. all of it following a tense white house briefing. >> is he being treated for parkinsons? no. >> reporter: the administration under pressure to explain why kinnard visited the white house eight times in eight months. the presidents doctor held regular neurology clinics. it comes as president biden is trying to put an end to the post debate drama and issuing a challenge to those who say he should drop out. >> i'm getting so frustrated by the leaks. if any of those guys don't think i should run, run against me. >> reporter: the president also calling a meeting of the

influential congressional black caucus and alexandria ocasio-cortez. >> joe biden is our nominee. he is not leaving this race. he is in this race, and i support him. >> reporter: so far nine congressional democrats have called on the president to leave the race. >> i think he should step aside. i think it's clear he's not the best person to carry the democratic message. >> reporter: former president trump saying he believes president biden will stay in the race. >> he's got an ego and he doesn't want to quit. >> reporter: mr. trump adding he expects to face vice president kamala harris. >> we wanted to see what they're doing, to be honest. >> joining us now, reverend al

sharpton, ashley parker, lauren leader and ali vitali. ali, you're outside where the house democratic caucus is meeting this morning. what are you hearing? has anyone gotten there yet? >> reporter: thank you for taking pity on me, because, yeah, it's hot out here. i imagine it's going to get pretty hot in that room. it's not where democrats typically hold their weekly caucus meeting. we're watching them trickle in on the path behind me, not taking questions, saying they're here to get a sense of where the full party is before they make their next steps. they arrive at the door behind me and staffers say, can i have

your cell phone? congressman jim clyburn is walking up right now. we're live on "morning joe." any message going into the meeting? >> stop 2025. >> reporter: you hear congressman clyburn saying we've heard from democratic members, saying they would like to turn the page with this back and forth with president biden, saying he should focus on project 2025. we've also seen some members walk in and vehemently support and defend president biden. we've also seen some members walk in and potentially say they're going to make the case to their colleagues behind closed doors here that joe biden should no longer be the nominee for president. you also see some republicans trying to take advantage of the moment, asking the question some

democrats have told me they're asking, which is, is joe biden still fit for office? what's such an important inflection point is when democrats can all get in a room and talk, there could be some more resolution, whether that means en masse people jumping and saying biden should no longer be the nominee or doing what leadership has done over the past week and a half saying they support joe biden as the nominee. the debate performance is still a week and a half in the rear view, but still having ripple

effects in this democratic party. >> what feedback are you getting from the moments? >> they felt he handled it well. he was direct. they seemed to be on board in terms of the president is fit and ready to go and they can win with him. no member of the congressional black caucus came out and said he should not continue. i think that's very telling, because that's a large part of his base. the enthusiasm there is something he's going to need. a lot of people are saying, wait

a minute, we're not just going to let you kick the guy around like that. we think he is in many ways benefitting from some of his base support. >> here is how the "washington post" describes the deep divisions between president biden and other democrats. quote, where they see polls depicting political calamity, he sees a dead heat. he sees no problem that can't be fixed with a display of energy and force. where they see a 90-minute debate that shows the state of his mental acuity, he sees it as a bad night and fending off a jet lag-induced cold. >> you talk about something that is critical to the outcome of this election. that is where the focus of the

voters are. will it be on donald trump? will it be on joe biden? the fact that everybody's now talking about the democratic candidate obviously is a political problem. >> that's right. that's what the president's own team would have told you, that if this is a referendum on the sitting president, they lose, and if this is a referendum on the former president, they win. they knew he needed to change the dynamic of the race and make it a referendum on donald trump. the theory is once people start to pay attention to trump and remember who he is and remember everything they disliked about the four years he served as president, president biden will prevail. of course, the debate did not go as planned.

as much as they wanted that debate to come early to make it a referendum on trump, they conceded, we also want it early in case biden stumbles, in case biden has a bad night. even in the back of their mind, there was a sense of we might need the rest of the summer and the fall to try to recover from a debate. >> we talked about the house. let's move to the senate. chuck schumer made it clear he is standing by the president, saying as i've said before, i'm for joe. however, a number of democratics are couching their support. quote, we need to see a much more forceful and energetic

candidate on the campaign trail in the very near future in order to convince voters he's up for the job. senator john tester, who's in a very close senate race, released a statement saying president biden needs to prove to the american people that he's up for another four years. sherrod brown of ohio briefly spoke with reporters. [ indiscernible ] >> senator joe manchin, who is not running for reelection, gave a more nuanced response. >> i'm anxious to hear from them and their conversation with the

president and see what happens. i think everyone just calms down a little bit and waits for this week. my main concern is the health and well-being of the president. he says everything is fine, so let's see how that goes. >> yesterday senate democrats were supposed to meet to discuss president biden. they'll gather today for their regularly scheduled caucus meeting. senator mark warner of virginia, who is spearheading yesterday's meeting, appears to have backed off his criticism. >> the most important thing we can do is defeat donald trump. if we don't do that, we will set back america a generation. i'm looking forward to the chance to talk face to face with my colleagues. i've had tough campaigns during my time. sometimes asking questions, at

least in my case, made me a better campaigner. i think a lot of folks are raising some questions. but at the end of the day we've got to beat donald trump. >> they've got to beat donald trump. for me listening to those democrats, even though who think joe biden perhaps should step down, i feel like it's a missed opportunity. whether they think joe biden should step down or not, it's an opportunity to talk about how strong this presidency has been, what an incredible team is in this administration and how democrats moving forward should be not only banking on that success but building upon it. there is a long list, lauren leader, of historic accomplishments out of this presidency. it just seems like some of these democrats are playing small ball with sort of day trading minute

by minute, quite frankly, like republicans do, instead of the big picture and the strength of this party, the strength of this presidency and why we might want to save democracy. >> right. it's incredible we're now five, six days from the republican national convention. there is no republican vice president that trump has selected. the republicans released their platform yesterday which has some really extraordinary platforms . they tried to eliminate abortion from their overall platform, but replaced it essentially with the 14th amendment, which sets up a big conversation about the republican commitment to fetal personhood. the list goes on. every member of congress that gets asked about the president at this point needs to be turning the conversation to talk about what's happening on the other side and to reenforce why the president's policies are more in line with the majority

of americans. it's also about their own legacies. a big part of this is going to speak to whether or not they can get reelected, guys like sherrod brown. they need to turn these conversations around. the president's answered the question. every day that they keep doing this, they're dragging themselves down. >> i agree completely. i really think that whatever questions they have when they are in front of reporters and cameras, there's an opportunity to talk about the strength of the party and the strength of this presidency. it's been missed every time for day trading. >> did you hear what jim clyburn said about project 2025? that obviously is an issue that democrats are really focused on. donald trump, obviously they've done the polling and they see how poorly all the items rate with voters.

he says, oh, i have no idea who they are. >> sure. pathological liar. >> he's not telling the truth. from the pictures and the press reports, they have a pretty big footprint at the rnc. talk about what republicans want to focus on at the convention and what the platform suggests. >> one thing that's been interesting is that president trump himself has displayed a rare bit of discipline in allowing the democrats to be in disarray. he is just as happy to allow them to sort of day trade bit by bit on should joe biden step aside, would vice president harris be a good replacement or does she have problems too? that's what we're seeing in the run up to the convention.

trump sort of was denied that moment he really wanted of just pure triumph at his first convention in 2016. you may recall senator ted cruz pulled a stunt on the floor with his delegates. one thing trump himself likely wants is sort of just four days and four nights of ratings and buzz and triumph and to have the emphasis be on his policies and himself and maybe his running mate if he's chosen them by then, which we expect he will have. but not necessarily some of these scenes the democrats want to highlight, like when he said he would be a dictator on day one like what he did on january 6th. >> really the people in the democratic caucus that keep raising issues about the president are playing into their

own challenges. they ought to be running on what the party has done under this president and on project 2025, because they risk -- as long as they make donald trump the issue, they risk even some of those facing insurgents trying to take them out. you can't run on the president at the head of the ticket needs to go and not impact your own race congressionally, because your local constituents want to know, well, what have you done? and you can't answer that by saying, what i've done is trying to get the head of the ticket to step aside. not an appealing message. >> i don't know how disciplined the president is actually being. he's been playing golf for nine straight days. you have one candidate out barnstorming the country trying to bring their message. i've been critical of the

president's campaign style. i do think they need to have a clearer message about what they're going to do in the second term that's not just talking about donald trump. you have one campaigning and the other one playing golf for nine days. we'll see what happens next week. there's no question that a lot of the republican platform, when americans start to really look at it, i think it's going to raise a lot of concerns. it is out of touch with the mainstream of what americans make. >> the parallel that you make of the golfing president versus the working president, you could go a lot farther and deeper with that, lauren. you have one president who's a proven fraudster, liable for sexual abuse, the list goes on, convicted felon, all of that. most importantly, you have editorial pages across the country asking joe biden to step down, but they won't ask the guy

who just the other night refused to accept the outcome of this coming election, okay, i don't know what makes him disqualifiable. apparently, to most editorial boards across the country, that's not, and i don't get it. lauren leader, thank you very much for being on this morning. and ashley parker, thank you as well for your reporting. we appreciate it. coming up, nato members are gathering in washington today for a three-day summit to commemorate the 75th anniversary of the military alliance, with russia's war in ukraine a major topic of discussion. the prime minister of denmark is in town for the meeting, and she joins us next on "morning joe." e joins us next on "morning joe. with its customizable options chain, easy-to-use tools, and paper trading to help sharpen your skills, you can stay on top of the market

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president biden will gather with foreign leaders to kick off this year's nato summit, which marks the 75th anniversary of the alliance. this evening will be an official opening event in the melon auditorium where the north atlantic treaty was originally signed back in 1949. the war in ukraine will be a main focus of the meeting. white house officials tell nbc news president biden and america's nato allies will roll out a series of measures to bolster ukraine's war machine. ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy is set to attend, and one of ukraine's most vocal supporters in nato, the prime minister of denmark, meta frederickson joins us now. tell us what you hope will be accomplished in this 75th anniversary meeting of nato.

>> first of all, good morning. it's great to be here. i, of course, hope and i expect for different deliveries of this nato summit, first of all, unity, trans atlantic, nato is the most important alliance for many of us countries to show unity and commitment and deliveries for ukraine. i think we have to stop talking about a war in ukraine and start to talk about a war in european, because russia has attacked not only ukraine but the entire world order we have built since world war ii. unity and concrete deliveries, because you cannot win a war against russia on your own. so we have to speed up and scale up donations. >> madam prime minister, of course, the backdrop is this

horrific attack that included the obliteration of a children's hospital in kyiv. that happened in the past 24 to 36 hours. you talk about complete delivery, scaling up and speeding up and having complete delivery to ukraine. delivery of what? what needs to be stepped up? what don't they have right now? where do you think we could do better, nato? >> to be very frank, i think we can do better in many different areas, unfortunately. i'm very proud of everything we have been able to do collectively since the beginning of the war, but it's not enough. that's my main message these days. it's not enough. when you ask about concrete deliveries, where do we need to focus, it's of course on air defense. as you were just explaining, we have seen attacks now on a

children's hospital. i mean, how cruel can it be? you cannot defend a country without air defense. the most critical point is air defense. they have asked the ukrainians for seven, eight or more systems, and we have only been able to deliver two from allies with ukraine. so we need more air defense. we need more ammunition. soon our f-16 fighters will be in the air in ukraine. of course, that is also extremely important for them. >> prime minister, we often talk about an iron dome over israel, protecting israel from missile attacks from hamas and other enemies. why is it not possible for nato to come together and do just that? i know president zelenskyy has

asked that question. why can't that be done? is it possible that perhaps we can move closer to that where the skies over ukraine will be protected from just savage, inhumane attacks like we saw yesterday? >> you're absolutely right. we have seen just recently in israel what it means to have an air defense system that is actually functioning and working. when you're asking me why we're not able to deliver what they need in ukraine, there is no right answer to that question. because we have the systems. we have the systems in the u.s. we have the systems within european countries. i think the general secretary of nato was very clear already weeks ago, saying that it's better to have the air defense systems in ukraine than to have them in other european countries. i have to say we have the concrete numbers. we know exactly where they are placed. just to give you an example, we

decided many, many months ago to give our entire artillery system to ukraine, because as a danish government we said, well, it's better used in ukraine than it's used in denmark. we have to work in the same way of thinking when it comes to air defense. of course we need air defense systems in the rest of europe as well, but we have all the time to consider ukraine as a part of the entire defense and deterrence of nato and u.s. so we have the systems. we have to deploy them. it's very easy to deploy patriot systems. so we have to deploy them to ukraine. it can be done if we have the political will. i hope that will be the very concrete result of this nato summit in washington. >> final question about how our nato allies in europe are

looking at us americans. i often hear real concern about the upcoming election, that president trump was hostile to nato, president biden has been a big supporter of nato, and now the fear that trump may be hostile again to nato if he gets back in office. is there anything nato countries can do to preserve the alliance even if donald trump comes into office? >> well, first of all, i would like to say that i have worked both with president trump and president biden. i am as a european extremely grateful about what the americans have done with this war in ukraine and in europe. when we are facing real challenges in europe, we always ask you to help us, u.s. it has been like that since the second world war, and it will probably always be the case in

the future. but when i'm listening to american presidents, not only joe biden, but also trump and actually also before trump, they have all been putting the same message on the table for europe. europe, you have to do more on your own. you have to step up and you have to scale up, and you have to be able to defend yourself and you have to be able to do more internationally. and to be honest with you, they have all been right. when i became prime minister in denmark, we were spending 1.3 on defense. now we are spending 2.4. this is not only about the war in ukraine. europe is a rich continent. we cannot rely only on u.s. my strong hope and my strong belief is that u.s. and europe will always be connected in nato, trans atlantic. but at the same time, as europeans, we have to be able to do more on our own with the

u.s., but on our own. so i think that's the best way forward, to step up, to scale up and show the political willingness to protect not only ourself but all the things we believe in together, our common values. >> i think most americans would agree with that. >> prime minister of denmark meta frederickson, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. coming up, what we are now learning about a boeing jet that lost a tire after takeoff from lax. we'll show you what a passenger captures from inside the plane. that and a look at some of the other stories making front-page headlines across the country. "morning joe" will be right back. ♪♪

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37 past the hour. most students at johns hopkins university's medical school will no longer have to pay tuition. that's because former new york city mayor michael bloomberg announced yesterday a gift of $1 billion for medical students to attend free of cost. starting with the fall semester, the school will offer free tuition for students from families that earn less than $300,000 a year. the gift will also help increase financial aid for other students in the university's schools of nursing and public health in addition to other graduate programs. bloomberg is a graduate of johns hopkins and said the high cost of medical school and gradual school, quote, too often bars students from enrolling, especially when the u.s. faces a shortage of medical professionals. >> boy, this is so important.

you've seen a few other people do the same. now mayor bloomberg doing this at his alma mater, what a great -- as he said, we are facing a shortage of medical professionals, of nurses. so this is critical. a look now at the morning papers across the country. the columbus dispatch has a front page feature on a bill that would allow students to leave school for religious classes. under the bill, public school students can attend an off-campus course with written permission from a parent or guardian. current ohio law allows students to be excused for religious instruction, but does not require districts to have a specific policy in place. the orlando sentinel reports a cyber attack has caused a backlog of death certificates.

the electronic system has been offline for over a week, leaving funeral homes scrambling to complete the forms for burial by paper. hackers gained access to potentially sensitive information. it's not known when the system will be back up and running again. the times union is spotlighting new york's move to ban tiny hotel toiletries. hotels with 50 or more rooms will no longer be able to offer shampoos and moisturizer in an effort to ban single-use plastics. the record of new jersey leads with a $6.8 billion federal grant that will fund the largest rail restoration project in the country. the gateway project aims to

rehabilitate an amtrak tunnel damaged during hurricane sanity and build two new tracks under the hudson river. a portion of the funning comes from the biden administration's infrastructure and investments job act. and in california, a united airlines boeing jet lost a tire yesterday while taking off from los angeles. the second boeing aircraft to do so in the past four months. nbc news correspondent tom costello has the details. >> reporter: it happened in the air monday morning. >> 1001, we were just told a tire came off your aircraft. >> reporter: a united airlines flight departing from lax losing a tire during takeoff. >> the tire came off that 75 that took off. we saw it rolling past bravo seven, bravo eight. >> reporter: with passengers and crew on board, the jet continued

to denver, its destination, landing safely. one of the passengers complimenting the crew for the landing. >> there was one bump, and it was a normal bump. you didn't hear any brakes or unusual screeches or noises. >> reporter: in a statement, united tells nbc in part, a wheel has been recovered in los angeles and we are investigating what caused this event. it all comes just a few months after the faa's scrutiny of boeing. a united flight headed from san francisco to sydney forced to turn around mid flight after fluid was seen spewing out of landing gear. there was also this march

incident in san francisco. >> the last departure lost the wheel on departure, so we're going to have to shut the runway down. >> reporter: a united 777 headed to japan lost a tire which landed in the parking lot. all of the flights, including monday's, landed safely. >> even though you do your best to try to keep things up, i still consider flying in the u.s. a very safe thing. >> nbc's tom costello with that report. coming up, you know them both from "succession," and now they're taking on broadway. actors peter free man and sidney lemon here to discuss their new play. lemon here to discuss their new play

♪♪ welcome back. a new play is coming to broadway that examines the corrosive effect of social media on people's mental health. it's entitled "job" and hits broadway after a run off broadway that drew rave reviews. it's set in a san francisco therapist's office. the two-person drama follows jane, an employee of a tech company who was placed on leave after a video of her having a mental breakdown at work went viral. now it's up to her therapist, lloyd, to determine whether she is fit to return to the office while he wrestles with a dark past of his own. wow. joining us now, the play's costars, peter friedman and sydney lemmon. the two met while working on

hbo's hit show "succession" of which we are both massive fans. >> i can't wait to see this play. >> "succession" is like our favorite show ever. >> this story is not only ripped from the headlines, but also from personal experiences. in all the media that we do, you know, sydney, we always say, oh, it will be easy to find somebody that can do online work. but it is so grating and so grueling. your character does content moderation for a facebook-like company. i have yet to talk to somebody who's doing a job like that that doesn't feel the emotional grind of it. talk about how that sets up your character for all the drama that unfolds in the play. >> yeah.

i mean, you're right, it's a grating job, but i think the people who have the tenacity to take on work like that are able to sort of separate their work from their life in pretty astonishing ways. our play kind of looks at when that separation kind of bleeds and you're no longer able to sort of keep that line distinct. >> right. i was going to say that it does, in fact -- there are some people who are able to separate that and do a great job. jane has some problems, which we'll let you all explain a little bit later. peter, i'm always great job. peter, this is -- i'm always mesmerized and so impressed by writers, by playwrights, that are able to take us into one

room. and just for -- and one -- one room for everything. i was always -- >> one therapy session. >> one therapy session and one room. i'm always, you know, for, you know, like "cheers," the old '80s comedy, it was in a bar. but there is great writing that kept you engaged. here, far different topic, far different venue. but it is the same thing. just one therapy session. >> yeah. and that's what scared me reading it at first, how do you make that live? and i learned by working with our director and sydney that there are corners that are built into it where you can -- where you can create -- where you can keep the tension going. and that's, i feel, what our director michael horowitz has brought to it. it is very clever what he's

done, sorry. >> talk about the challenge, both of you talk about the challenge, though, as actors, as you look at, you go, my god, we're doing this in one room, one therapy session, what do you as actors have to bring to the table to really keep that pacing up? >> well, you know, when the writing is as good as the writing is with this play, it is really just about surrendering to the text and to the actor that you're with and giving over to the circumstance that has been written out for you on the page. so, honestly, it is just about diving in and letting go, it doesn't take too much when the writing is good. >> there are questions that the therapist asks the patient that may sound casual, but it is our job to never let it be casual. >> i'm curious what drew both of you to this script and to this play and, peter, i'll start with

you. what, like, what was it that made you feel a connection with it, that made you want to do this. >> when you hit some good writing, you know it. you know, when there aren't any bumps, when you don't want to say this doesn't make sense to me, those are the things you hold on to and things you pursue. this one had some really smart stuff in it. and the two runs that we have had, the audiences have responded to it in a way that i haven't seen before, especially the younger audience that came, because it was like a party, it was great. >> wow. sydney? >> yeah, for me, yeah, you read it, you think, wow, this has teeth and i have no idea how this is even possible to do. and looking ahead at a challenge like that, it is really exciting because sort of that's still how

i feel almost every night before we do it, like, this is impossible, how are we going to do it today. how are we going to do it tonight? it is exciting. >> wow. >> peter, you, as the therapist, you play a role where you say you feel like this was your reason to live. and her character is her reason to live. is it part of the thing that we get out of the play is that we all feel we have a reason to live that may not be able to reconcile with others are feeling, of why they're living and how do you make the two work or can you make the two work or maybe that's what the play makes us ask ourselves? >> wow. i hadn't thought about that. but i'm trying to draw a connection toward the end of the play to us to ameliorate the tension and i say that we are both doing things that are a reason to live, but i see your

point. >> interesting. >> and, sydney, talk about -- just talk about the journey that jane takes through the play, and why audiences have responded as strongly as they have. >> yeah. you know, i think i really relate to something that jane feels and i think a lot of people my age feel, a total identification with their work and that their work becomes their life and sort of their whole personality. i think a lot of people can relate to that, and so when the thing that you do to make money becomes your whole, like, really sort of goes beyond what's normal or accepted, it becomes sort of an obsession, that was a really exciting. i think audiences can relate to that and -- but also they get to

watch someone on stage do it in the most extreme possible way, a way that they probably feel some catharsis, sort of getting to witness, yeah. >> yeah. all right. >> the play "job" makes its broadway debut on july 30th at the hayes theater, co-stars peter friedman and sydney lemmon. thank you, both. congratulations on the success of "job." take care. thank you so much. and that does it for us this morning. we'll see you tomorrow morning, 6:00 a.m. eastern. ana cabrera picks up the coverage after a quick final break. brera picks up the coverage after a quick final break. this summer. snacking. just. got. serious. introducing new $3 footlong dippers. the world might not be ready for them... ...but at $3 a pop? your wallet definitely is.

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right now on "ana cabrera

reports," democrats meeting behind closed doors on capitol hill, as president biden looks to tamp down a revolt within his party. in just moments, i'll talk to former congressman cedric richmond, co-chair of the biden/harris campaign. do they think they made a strong enough case? plus, after an unprecedented silence, donald trump is weighing in, what he is saying about his opponent's ego. yes, you heard that right. and the former president's shadow looming large over the nato summit happening in washington. why it is not only a big test for the alliance, but for biden too. and devastation from beryl. it could be weeks before some parts of texas get power back on with scorching heat, what are people supposed to do? hi there. it is 7:00 eastern. i'm ana cabrera reporting from new york. today, president