hi there, everyone. it's 4:00 in the east. where there's smoke, there's usually fire. repeated denials of any connection between the radical manifesto written by the heritage foundation to send america back to the 1800s and team trump are generating a whole lot of smoke. after the fire brand-new reporting reveals project 2025 are also behind trump's republican party and their official party platform. abc news reports this, quote, in may the trump campaign and the rnc announced their platform committee leadership team, the senior officials tasked with drafting the republican platform, and russ vought and ed martin as deputy policy director, both have ties to project 2025. as we reported on this program

yesterday, vought was a former trump administration staffer, which brings us to the wider point. if you want to look at what trump and his allies plan to do in a second trump term, look at what they sought to do in the first. a key plank of project 2025 is a total transformation of the way the justice department has functioned since the very beginning. it calls for the undoing of the central tenant of the department of justice, independence from politics. project 2025 calls to, quote, ensure the assignment of sufficient political appoint tees throughout the department of justice, that means purge experienced career law enforcement officials, replace them with appointees who will do whatever donald trump asks. experience, merit, ability to pass a background check. none of that will happen. none of that will matter. the altercation for serving in trump's doj, loyalty and acquiescence to trump. as trump has repeated over and over and over again, a key

priority for his second term will be, in his words, retribution and revenge. that means more people will have harrowing experiences like our next guest, michael cohen had. michael cohen was sent back to prison notably four years ago today in a move a judge deemed retaliatory for refusing to back off publishing a book about donald trump. that's where we start the hour with the afore mentioned michael cohen, host of the mea culpa, author of "disloyal" and "revenge." . michael cohen, it's great to see you. >> good to see you, nicole. >> i feel like we are sort of sleep walking into this false noelgs that what trump promises in a second term is new. it's not. it's what he successfully did in the first term, which is to prosecute and jail people who threaten him, people he deems

his rivals or opponents, people like you. tell us what happened four years ago today. >> people like you, too, i in coal, and the president of your msnbc station. donald has been very clear about his enemies list, and there are many people on it, including folks like mark zuckzuckerberg. what they did is lured me down to 500 pearl street, they provided me, i showed this on your program a couple of weeks back, they presented myself and a friend of mine who's a lawyer, jeffrey k. lavine, who i asked to join me because something just seemed terribly amiss, and they gave us this two-page document that is filled with syntax and grammatical and spacing errors. the very first paragraph is a complete and total violation of my first amendment constitutional right in that it prohibited me from speaking to the media, publishing a book,

doing television, anything including friends and family were supposed to be warned not to discuss anything to do with me because it would glamor rise a federal inmate who was on confinement status. it was an absolutely dick cue louse paragraph, again, that was drafted for me. how do we know this two-page document was drafted for me? because it does not contain a federal identifiable number to it whereas the real one clearly does. when i refused to sign it and ask that they tamp down the language because my book, "disloyal" at the time was already with the printer, what they did was instead they had a guy named patrick mcfarland, rrm, residential re-entry manager over at mdc correctional facility, sign a remand order and they had me taken into custody by three marshalls who handcuffed and shackled me. and i say this not in order to

glamorize what happened to me, but really to send a message to the american people, something i've been yelling from the rooftops from every single platform that i can, that my biggest fear is that what they did to me they will do to you. donald already has a blueprint of what he needs to do, and that's weaponizing the department of justice, weaponizing government, which he said he was also going to do, every person that works in government will be working not for the united states government but for him. and they will be required to sign a loyalty pledge to him, meaning there will be no opportunity to file as i did through my other lawyer a habeus corpus petition that had me released from the 16-day solitary confinement bringing it to a total of 51 days of solitary confinement.

nobody will have that option again if donald trump ends up in the white house. >> what impact -- i mean, you know the inside of his brain in terms of his desire to stay just on the other side of criminality, to stay out of jail, to avoid what chris christie used to say, the clink of the door. the supreme court granted him absolute immunity. what do you think he's capable of? >> absolutely anything and everything. you allow your mind to wander into the farthest level of dystopia and then you will finally get a small glimpse into just how far he will push this. look, i want to be clear about this. what he did to me is absurd. it made me the very first political prisoner held by my own country, by the united states of america, for refusing to waive my first amendment constitutional right. the supreme court decision just

gave him immunity from prosecution on this by claiming, and you'll have to do it on an ad hoc basis, by claiming that this was a presidential act, that it was done in furtherance of the office of the presidency. there is no limit to what he and his people who will be there in 1600 pennsylvania avenue will be successful in at least attempting to do. >> michael, he's talked about a televised military tribunal for liz cheney. people laugh it off. what do you think when you hear that? >> i tell you not to laugh. there is -- first of all, there's nothing funny about it. there's nothing funny about a man who is seeking the highest office in our land, who would, in essence, again be the most powerful person on the planet, and he's talking about military tribunals. he's talking about public

executions. he's talking about using s.e.a.l. team 6 to go in to round up his political enemies and opponents and jail, incarcerate them the way that he wants them to do it. now in order to stop -- in order to help to stop this sort of movement, tomorrow in fact in the morning my lawyers are going to be filing a writ of certiari to the supreme court of the united states in order to hear the case, michael cohen versus united states of america, because in that case that's the habeus corpus petition that the judge deemed the reactions of trump, the administration, bill barr, doj was retaliatory. i don't think people understand the term enough, and i don't think it gets enough play, certainly not by this white house that's the biden white house. it was retaliatory by an evil and vindictive individual who will seek to do this again and

again and again and again because of the supreme court decision. he will have unlimited authority and power. whether it's true or not, he will feel that he does and he will take advantage of every single avenue that he possibly can. and my -- my statement that i say to everyone, including joe biden and his family, including hunter biden, including you, including mark zuckerberg, including elon musk, including members of the supreme court themselves, be warned. be very warned. >> say more. be warned of what? i mean, it's in project 2025. what people get wrong is how far he got in a first term. you were imprisoned. andy mccabe was investigated. jim comey, wise counsel, david kelly, frequent guest on this program especially during the

trump trial was his lawyer for years while he was under criminal scrutiny. the irs carried out two investigations into andy mccabe and jim comey. there were wire taps on adam schiff's moment. there were wire taps on journalists from "the new york times." that's just what we found out about at the end. >> yeah. >> say more about what he would do and to whom. >> to who will be anybody that creates some ire, whether you say something derogatory, whether, you know, you try to speak truth to power. whatever it is that you do, you're going to have to think twice about whether or not it is worth it for you to speak this truth to power or to write about this truth to power or to report about this truth to power for fear, for absolute fear that in the middle of the night s.e.a.l. team 6 shows up to your home, knocks down your door, bags you,

tags you, sends you to someplace like to guantanamo bay. a lot of people make fun of donald trump and they say oh, this is all hyperbolic, it's nonsense. he's not sending s.e.a.l. team 6, he's going to send meal team 6 to come in and deliver a mar-a-lago burger. no,ing no. there's nothing funny here. there's no joking around. we are on the brink of losing our democracy, the republic because the man has absolutely figured out what it's going to take in order to dismantle our democratic system, our democracy, to dismantle the constitution. so when he tells you, not me saying it, not you, nicole, when donald trump tells you that he intends to destroy our try par tied system of government, he is going to do away with the legislative branch and the judiciary and confer all power unto himself through the

executive branch, i don't know why -- i don't know why there is a single person in america, regardless of republican, democrat or independent, that is willing to turn around and to lose this 249 year experiment that is the beacon of the world. it is everything that everybody wants to be. we are the beacon that shines brightest on top of the mountain. these folks are willing to give this up to a man who is a con man as the al-jazeera article put it. this guy makes the guy who was selling the brooklyn bridge, the other bridges 100 years ago, makes him look like a novice, a baby. he is no baby. he knows exactly what he is doing. my warning to everyone again, all right, be scared. be nervous. and make sure if you really do care about democracy, that you are fully registered to vote come november and you vote democrat straight down the

ballot. >> michael cohen, i feel like there's one more thing that i want to have you sort of explain and articulate, and that is as someone who was once under the trumpumbrella, what is the lure? why do you think trump is ahead in just about every battleground state? >> first of all, i don't know if all of those polls are exactly accurate. you don't know how people are going to react when they are alone with their conscience. if you are a woman or if you are the spouse or you have a daughter or you have a niece or there's a woman in your life, maybe your mom, that you actually care about and you want to preserve a woman's right to choose her own reproductive decision making, how do you vote for the guy who has a 900 plus page manifesto that says this should be a reenactment of the handmade's tale, that this should go back to some white christian nationalist ideology?

i don't understand how that happens. you will be by yourself in a -- in a voting booth making a decision that doesn't just affect you but it affects many generations to come. so why are people in this spell? it's such a great question. what he does is he speaks like a popularist, and there's a lot of disenfranchised people in this country. they feel dejected and rejected by the system, that they're having hard times. many of them also happen to just be racist and that they are -- fear. they are fearful of brown and black people because they want to continue with their white privilege and they feel that that's being lost as well. there is a multitude of reasons why people are joining this trump cult, why they stay with it despite the fact that they have these racist, sexist,

misogynistic tendencies, islam mow phobic anti-semetic tropes and believes, i don't have an answer to it, but i will tell you what took me out of it and took me out very quickly was the notion, i'm going to jail for another man's dirty deeds. you may remembe i said to george steve nop poe louse, my wife, my daughter, my son, my country have my first loyalty and always will. i'm saying to each and everyone of your listeners, including the ones that are republicans or magas. your loyalty belongs to your family and to your country, and you need to make sure that donald trump never gets anywhere near the front door of 1600 pennsylvania avenue. >> clear and powerful ringing of the bell from you, my friend. michael cohen, let's make this a regular thing. thank you for starting us off today. >> any time. thanks, nicole.

>> thank you. let me -- let me -- before we get to break let me bring in former u.s. attorney, harry lipman and chief political columnist, host of "poll particular for puck" john heilman. john heilman, i feel like we as a media are so slow to adapt to how quickly trump moves the overton window and what was the terrain of extraordinary investigative journalism, during the first trump term, which is figuring out he was trying to get jeff sessions, bill barr, rod rosen steen to do. politicizing doj and be using it for political prosecutions and persecutions is now the rnc position on a website out loud and it is part of normalizing it so that when it happens there's this moment where people say, well, we knew this was going to happen, right? this isn't new. no, no, no, this is new.

this is not normal. and this is absolutely what he plans to do. >> right. and, you know, i think it's one of the -- it's one of the liberating -- i'm saying this ironically, but it's one of the liberating things of becoming a convicted felon. once you're -- once you're lawless, once you're officially in the realm of lawless, you can do -- you're kind of freed of all obligations to still be lawful, at least in your mind if you're donald trump. you know, nicole, you know, people have forgotten that, you know, trump was -- was so new, the things he was willing to do were so new, so far outside the realm of any historical -- any historic precedent in the presidency, it was heroic what journalism did in that period in office because all of it was new. no one had experienced seeing anything quite like that before, and a lot of it was happening in

the shadows, right? in 2020, this is the part people forget, there was no republican platform in 2020. i mean, donald trump had a convention where they just said there will be no platform. whatever trump says is the party platform. it was the ultimate. he was -- he was -- he was the platform. and that again made it difficult because, you know, there was some effort there to hide the ball. now there is no effort to hide the ball. it's all there and it's all out in front of us. so it boasts the responsibility of journalists and all citizens, frankly, to get their heads around what he's proposing. it makes it all that much higher the responsibility, but in some sense it makes it easier because he is really doing us the favor, and again i say that somewhat ironically but not totally, he's doing us the favor of saying you want to call me a criminal, fine. hold my beer. here's the new stuff i'm going

to do that is how far i'm willing to go now that i'm kind of the jesse james of republican -- or national politics. we can see it. the the only question is what we're going to do about it. >> well, and, you know, justice sotomayor writes, harry lipman, in her dissent -- justice ketanji jackson warns of the white house becoming a seat of criminal conduct. the supreme court greenlit that. that's what they ushered in. they don't live on a hermetically sealed island. the case was donald trump versus the united states of america. what should people be prepared for? >> so they have greenlit it, and trump didn't even need green lights before. he went through amber and red ones. that's the stunning point now. he's trying to distance himself as trump from the 972 page plan.

who knows, i doubt he's read even to page 2, but the big points of it mainly, the complete enemy's list of anyone who's ever crossed him and, second, the absolute gutting of the civil servants starting with doj is just a manifest danger for what michael cohen said, but a whole long laundry list, and that is not even slightly hidden. you're right, and i know we'll talk about this more, but the court has really greenlit it or at least insulated it, and we are in some kind of serious situation here going into november. >> right. where the voters are truly the only people that can stop it if they don't like it. the john and harry, i need you to stick around much longer. when we come back, donald trump's assault on the rule of law in america rages on today. he's now trying to suppress any and all damaging evidence from

his federal elections subversion case before the 2024 election. we'll bring you that new reporting next. with the rnc set on an antidemocracy, antivoting 2024 agenda, we'll tell you what republicans are doing at the state level to change the rules and rig as many wins as they can for donald trump. in the next hour, president joe biden will deliver remarks for the 75th anniversary of nato, ahead of major meetings with world leaders and. all those stories when "deadline white house" has a quick break. don't go anywhere.

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the republican nominee for president is plotting another coverup. team trump is trying to brush away an indelible stain. the guardian reporting this, quote, donald trump is expected to launch a new legal battle to suppress any damaging evidence from his 2020 election subversion case from becoming public before the 2024 election preparing to shut down the potency of any mini-trials where high profile officials could testify against him. these so called mini-trials are the result of a supreme court ruling that trump is immune from prosecution for official acts even if official acts were done in furtherance of a coup plot.

they are evidentiary hearings determining how much jack smith's indictment of trump remains intact. they said it's going to put some of the most disturbing elements of the attempted coup on trial for the american people, for the court and the american people to consider. in theory that could potentially include witnesses including vice president mike pence, mark meadows, for example. no surprise then that donald trump would be desperate to prevent these hearings from ever happening. also from the guardian, quote, in the coming months, trump's lawyers are expected toing agu that the judge can decide whether the conduct is immune based on legal arguments alone negating the need for witnesses or multiple evidentiary hearings. if prosecutors with the special counsel jack smith press for witnesses such as former vice president mike pence or white house officials to testify,

donald trump's lawyers are expected to launch a flurry of executive privilege and be other measures to block their appearances. it has been the central issue, what conduct is covered under the supreme court's definition of presidential immunity. team trump will reportedly argue in effect that a coup is okay as long as the president of the united states does it. again, the guardian, quote, trump's lawyers are expected to argue the maximalist position that they considered all of the charged conduct was donald trump acting in his official capacity as president and therefore presumptively immune, and incumbent on prosecutors to prove otherwise. incredibly consequential legal battle expected to start next month when the judge regains control of the case. let's bring in the journalist behind the scoop. tell us more. >> yeah, look. you know, i think trump knows

that the evidence that could come out of these hearings could be politically damaging and legally damaging. there is the political evidence because the stuff about january 6th and trump's efforts to overturn the election don't play well with voters. there's also a legal element here which is if prosecutors can put up some of the best witnesses they have in front of chudkin and say, he was acting in p his capacity as a candidate, not the president, it could make prosecutor's life easier in terms of overcoming that immunity. they have found a way, planning still, but they have found a way to get through this and that is to launch a two-pronged attack. one, to say we don't need hearings at all. if we do need hearings, we can do it only on legal arguments. dry, boring legal arguments and hypotheticals that lawyers raise in court. if jack smith presses for witnesses, then they know they have a bigger problem and they

are expecting to launch a flurry of executive privilege motions. they want to say to the judge that the record is anew. the decisions before the grand jury decision are non-binding. she needs to lit at this gate the privilege issues anew. that is trump's corner stone to make sure none of the damaging evidence gets before the public before november. >> harry lipman, will it work? >> you know, it might. the supreme court opinion is not only incredibly broad in its basic articulation of the immunity principle, nicole, it can change the minds and sinkholes of other principles. here's a very big one. you may not have evidence of immune conduct to prove even your unofficial and non-immune case. so i know there are a lot of people, close colleagues of ours are enamored of this mini-trial

idea. jack smith says i call mike pence to the stand because i want to establish that this was, in fact, not immune. trump says, wait a second, you're not allowed to give any evidence of immune conduct. stop the music. you must decide it first. what does chudkin do now? remember, this is immunity meaning there is interlocutory appeal. so i think at a minimum there is risk for trump to try to block it, take appeals from it and to keep what exactly hugo's talking about, which is evidence. yes, they can do it on the allegations, and that's part of what the court talked about in the case, but can they actually bring pence to the stand or pat sip pollone or anyone of that nature when the court has said you can't present evidence of immune conduct to prove this case? i think there's a whole kind of

obstacle course that the court has set up even before you get to that point and it is damn tricky. >> you know, tom heilman, michael cohen said something in the first block. he said, vote for democrats up and down the ballot if you don't like this. i mean, this supreme court has given the pro democracy pro rule of law coalition such grist, right? because i don't really understand all of the legal things being batted around and weaponized by trump, but it is clear that donald trump, unlike tv, had his supporters go to the capitol, beat cops with sticks, endanger the life of mike pence and he's going to get away with it. i feel like for eight years we've covered efforts by the federal criminal justice system, muller, fdny, jack smith, tonya chudkin to hold him accountable.

a giant goose egg. no one is coming to save anyone from donald trump's criming except the voters. what does this, in your view, look like if successfully argued as a political issue? >> well, i first want to say, nicole, you and i are both -- we have exactly the same amount of legal training, which is to say none, but i think -- i think -- i think that we both have wandered around politics and the intersection of politics and law enough to adduce one important way of thinking about this, which is that the supreme court's really screwed us, you know? and i think that's -- that's, you know, the bottom line here. it's amazing how one decision written the way harry just described but with the land mines that's kind of strewn around, the trap doors, beyond just the headline, the way in which it's having this metastatic kind of effect on all of these potential prosecutions and efforts of legal

accountability is really incredibly dispiriting. it's dispiriting enough for those of us who saw in 2020 how after four years of banging at the guardrails of american democracy and plowing through a lot of those guardrails and showing us all how actually fragile the system of democratic rule and democratic accountability that is america actually was, we all looked up and said, well, man, i'll tell you what, the courts held. the courts held. thank god the courts held. trump waged all of these lawsuits trying to prove the election was stolen. he got knocked down. republican judges, democratic judges, republican states, democratic states. that's one guardrail, the judiciary. what happened with the supreme court with the immunity ruling, it feels like the last guardrail has been knocked down. that's not to say some judges

won't uphold it. when the supreme court knocks it down, that has ripple effects where judges have their hands tied. now they're on uncertain ground. the politics of this, you know, conversation the other day. i think on some level, watching this whole thing, it's as dispiriting to me in terms of the future of the democratic experiment in america, it's as dispiriting as anything that's happened over the course of these last six or seven years. >> right. because it's forever. a supreme court decision is binding until a new supreme court decision reverses this decision. it's done. >> we're going to have a conservative court very long. >> hugo, thank you for inspiring this. we're very happy to talk to you about it. harry, thank you. while depressing, it was

illuminating. john highlyman sticks around for more. the dangerous game republicans are playing with our democracy and voting rights in america starting with the state level trying to rig it in donald trump's favor with new and arbitrary rules, even before anyone heads to the polls. that's next. don't go anywhere. p. where you going? luke's mom: there's an incredible urgency to get your child into services, because the longer you wait, these motor pathways are set in stone. i knew he needed help. he needed these services. i'm almost there. yes, you are. you're so close. you're so strong. i'm gonna say hi. okay! let's say hi. hi! nolan's mom: none of my friends or people in our network have a child with these needs. and then you go to easterseals and it's such a good feeling to feel like you're in good hands. they really understand what you're going through. jaxon: at one point, i wasn't able to walk or ride my bike. the little things that other people take for granted

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number one, i would look out for the positive pro democracy stories which are often in the

states. people in idaho or -- sorry, not idaho. people in ohio or wherever it might be gathering signatures for a referenda, people winning referenda, people trying to reverse gerrymandering, that's ohio. the small fights where people are actually out there already trying to make things better, they don't get enough national coverage. that kind of contributes to the general doom moment we're in where we all think it's coming. maybe it's inevitable. that's not true. there are a lot of people unscripted and who are not attended to and who are fighting this fight. >> a vital reminder that the fight for democracy is happening right now everywhere if you look closely in the states, from the ballot initiative in ohio, to try to put an end too gerrymandering, to the department of justice in the state of georgia to vote

absentee. each fight on the disingenuous voting rights predicated on the big lie. the rnc platform doubles down on the republican party's anti-democracy, anti-voting agenda vowing to make voting harder, including voter id laws and paper ballots. including to democracy dockets legislation tracker, quote, there's currently 60 anti-voting cases making their way through various courts in 21 states and the district of columbia. the gop itself has filed at least 40 active anti-voting lawsuits this election cycle while the rnc has filed 9. joining us mark elias is here, john heilman is here. there's all sorts of things happening in the states. i thought, thank god you draw our attention to it. my worry is what's happening in

the states is not a fair fight, right? republicans fueled by the law that there was fraud in 2020 when there was none have actually made a depressing amount of progress in voting in 2024. do what tim snider said. give me something good. >> sure. my law firm won a case earlier this week in the state of wisconsin in the state supreme court to restore drop boxes, right? there had been ballot drop boxness 2020. conservative majority of that state supreme court struck down or ruled the drop boxes were not legal in 2022. as you may recall, democrats lost a close senate race in that state in 2022, and now as a result of the litigation we brought drop boxes will be back in place for 2024. so that's just one example of good news. i can point to state after state after state where, you know, democracy is on the docket.

democracy is winning. it doesn't mean we win everywhere, but we win more places than people think. it's important for everyone to recognize. the cynics want you to give up on the courts. the cynics want you to believe that it is inevitable that voter suppression and subverters will have their way. it is our job to not just tell the truth about what is happening, which is not always very good news, but to also not bury the fact that we can make a difference when we fight. >> well, i mean, and the despair is a tool of the autocrat as ruth constantly reminds me on this show, that it's not accidental that the party moving towards autocracy would like people to feel that there is no hope and that that helplessness begets the hedging and the giving away power to an autocrat ahead of time. mark elias, weigh in on the conversation we've been having. we started with michael cohen

who described his experience as being the first federal political prisoner of the trump era, sort of patient zero. your thoughts as the project 2025 agenda morphs almost completely into donald trump's convention platform committee? >> yeah. look, i think, a, if you have not read project 2025, you probably have saved yourself a few hours better spent, but you should read a summary of project 2025. democracy docket has a good summary. a number of the news outlets have put out a good summary of project 20 at that. here is what they said. project 2025 is at its core a power grab, a plan for donald trump to seize the control of the entire executive branch. that means not just the department of justice, it means the irs, it means the epa, it means the sec. he wants to seize control. they want to have a plan to seize control of the entire

federal bureaucracy, replace career civil servants with political operatives and then use that power to punish his enemies and reward his friends. it is a sort of cronyism writ large brought to the federal government and that will lead to a lot of really bad policies rolling back roe versus wade, rolling back, you know, environmental laws and the like, but it will fundamentally reorder democracy. the day that donald trump becomes a dictator for a day he becomes a dictator for life. and what project 2025 does is it provides a competent plan. remember, a lot of the conservative concern after 2020 after he won -- i'm sorry, after 2016 when he won was he and his band of misfits were incompetent in seizing power. this is an effort to make them competent in seizing power, punishing his enemies, rewarding

his friends and frankly not giving up power. >> heilman, this is where the story is so different in the second term. we were talking about the great journalism and we were saved by a lot of those revelations. he was both incompetent and hemmed in by some people who -- don mcgann had a notetaker because he wanted to make sure anything illegal he was asked to do was written down and preserved. mark milli had a red line and it was i will not do anything illegal. those sort of guardrails would not exist. >> remember, nicole, right after january 6th in the first couple of months when there was a lot of -- when peoples eyes were opened as to what exactly -- really fully opened exactly as to the scale of trump's ambitions and the dangers of it, somebody wrote a story in one of the -- in one of the big-name high end magazines like "the

atlantic," "the new yorker," a phrase that stuck with me, january 6th was a dress rehearsal, right? it wasn't just an attempted coup, it was a dress rehearsal. you run the play. you figure out what works, what doesn't work, then you do it better the next time. you don't pull it off the first time, you get ready for act 2, the real thing. that kind of it was just a dress rehearsal sort of applies to everything i think about trump's first term, which is maybe it wasn't intended to be just a dress rehearsal, but effectively that's what it was. for trump and the people around him crucially, whatever you think of trump's mental capacity, the people around -- he has people around him who are not stupid. venal, evil, malcontent, malintented, venal, they saw where the brakes were, guardrails were, internal guardrails, external guardrails. they were largely incompetent at

trying to execute a lot of the worst of the policies and procedures and violations that they wanted to undertake, but they learned. they are -- you know, like the rest of us humans, they're learning machines and they were taking notes. oh, if we had done be it that way, we could have gotten away with it. if we had done this. the if we had fired that person earlier, and that is now kind of the game plan for what they plan to do going ahead and it's why, you know, everyone -- i think there's a consensus for those who care for democracy, the second trump term is so dangerous than the first trump term because of the fact they are going to be better at doing the stuff that's going to kill the country. >> and central to having the opportunity to carry out their more competent efforts to end democracy is making sure to rig the electorate. we'll continue to press you, mark elias, how you are fighting against that effort. i have to sneak in a quick

break. we'll all be right back. don't go anywhere.

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we're back with mark elias and john heilman. mark, i want to deal with one of the big lie 3.0, 4.0, whatever lie we're on that's being put out there and give you a chance to talk about it. the gop platform promises to secure elections this way, quote, we will implement measures to secure our elections including voter i.d., highly sophisticated paper ballots, proof of citizenship and same

day voting. democracy docket writes this, debunking the myths around noncitizen voting. first, it's already illegal to vote. second, these requirements do not just keep noncitizens from voting, they also stop eligible voters who don't have easy access to citizenship documents, like passports and birth certificates, that's the most dangerous part of democracy. jimmy carter and jim baker looked at voter fraud after 2000. chris krebs looked at it 20 years later in 2020. they said 2020 was the most secure election in america's history. what is all of this really designed to do in your view? >> this is aimed at making it harder to vote and easer to cheat, and that is the republican plan for 2024. they want to make it harder to vote. when you make it generically harder for everyone to vote, you make it particularly harder for

people who have less experience voting, namely young voters, and also the republican party has a shameful history that, you know, continues to this day of enacting voter suppression laws that target minority voters. in 2013 the state of north carolina controlled by republicans enacted a law that a federal court of appeals found targeted african american voters with near surgical precision, their words, not mine. if they did that then, you can imagine what they were doing in 2023, 2024. these were all aimed at making voting generically harder. they are also, though, setting up a structure to be able to cheat after the election, which is a second part of it. here john got it exactly right. my team and i lit at this gated 6 of 5 cases for president biden after the 2020 election. we beat donald trump in all of those, 64-1.

a lot of hay has been made making fun of republicans. my message to democrats and my friends is that those are not the lawyers they're sending into court today. the lawyers they are sending into court today are -- they may not be the best lawyers in the world, but they are much let better lawyers and they have learned from the humiliating errors that their predecessors made and they are in state legislatures and in state capitols and in courtrooms around this country advancing dangerous theories, both to make it harder to vote now but to later claim if donald trump loses that there were illegal votes because of, you know, this category or the ballot stock was not secure, the paper. paper, whatever the hell that means. there was early voting. there was drop boxes. they are setting up the arguments today to explain why after the election they want to say that these elections were

not fair. >> john heilman, you interviewed president biden's campaign manager. what preparations are they engaged in for this period that mike elias is talking about, if any? >> i'll tell you, a, we did not discuss that matter on the podcast and we're short of time, but i do -- look, i did back in 2020, i remember doing an interview on the circuits with bob bauer about this. there was already concern in october of 2020. >> yeah. >> i am -- i'm certain and have heard that the biden campaign is keyed in on the things mark is talking about. as we get closer to election day, that is going to be a subject that is going to be raised a lot with them. a lot of reporters are going to be asking that question precisely in more detail because i think, you know, not just to

say, again, what mark said but i do think this is an important part of the dress rehearsal is what they have learned on the legal front and i think the biden campaign, which was very prepared in 2020, it has to be doubly or triply prepared to happen again in 2024. >> mark elias, don heilman, two of the best. thank you very much for spending time with us today. coming up for us in the next hour, nato members are meeting in washington for what many fear could be the last time. we're awaiting remarks for president joe biden for the 75th anniversary of this great alliance. the next hour of "deadline white house" starts after a very short break. don't go anywhere. nywhere. and see why pods has been trusted with over 6 million moves. but don't wait, use promo code big25 to save. visit pods.com today.

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if he does not have a filter between his brain and his mouth, and so when he, for example, threatens to get out of nato as he did during his first term and has done since then, i think people better believe it. i think that would be a catastrophic mistake for american national security and the security of the west as a whole. >> hi again, everybody. it's 5:00 in the east. not an empty threat. his former security adviser says he will do it. he said his ex-boss's threats of pulling out of nato are very real. the prospect of the disgraced ex-president and autocratic impulses and written agenda returning to the american white house looms large over this meeting as leaders of the 32 nato countries meet to kick off a three-day summit in washington, d.c., president joe biden is expected to deliver

remarks in this hour. we will bring them to you in their entirety as soon as they begin. president biden will speak on nato's 75th anniversary, an achievement for the alliance be that has only grown stronger under joe biden's presidency. it has added two members, finland and sweden, in recent years and it has helped its democratic ally, ukraine, defend itself against a brutal war and invasion of russia. that war now nearly 2 1/2 years old. the importance of assistance from mate tow members underscored by yet another heinous attack in ukraine yesterday. russian missiles hit a children's hospital in kyiv, likely a war crime. for too long now ukrainian troops have put up a real fight against russian forces. they say, russia is unlikely to make significant territorial gains in ukraine in the coming months as its poorly trained forces struggle to break through ukrainian defenses that are now reinforced with western munitions. "new york times" highlighting the significance of this week's

meeting of nato leaders to ukraine's fight ahead. quote, leaders at the summit are expected to promise new funding for ukraine, announce plans for the alliance to coordinate weapons delivery and a strength and promise that it will eventually become a full ally. moments away from president joe biden's remarks, a time for the president to assert himself on the world stage and reiterate democracy. we start the hour with some of our most favorite experts and friends. ian baskin is back with us and former supreme ally commander of nato, admiral james defriedes is here. michael crowley is here. i start with you. your thoughts, wherever they are today, admiral, as we get ready for this historic speech from president biden. >> point one would be the value of nato. we really ought to continue to

celebrate it and, yes, there are some storm clouds in the potential next president that decries the alliance. can we do the numbers for a minute? these are 32 nations, as you correctly point out, with two superb militaries in sweden and finland. 32 nations. well over 50% of the gross domestic product. second largest collective defense budget in the world is the rest of nato, about $400 billion, and above all, nicole, these are the allies with whom we share our most cherished values. and so as i look at the nato alliance i was privileged to command for four years, and i think about the fact that nato -- the rest of nato came with us to afghanistan after we were attacked, i wrote hundreds

of condolence notes to the families of young europeans who died under my command in afghanistan, hundreds of them. so this is an alliance that is strong and is unified and, yes, there are challenges ahead about everything from defense spending to the potential return in, shall we say, a skeptic in the return of donald trump. there's a lot to celebrate and that's what you'll hear president biden do in this extremely important speech he's about to make. >> i think trump describes himself as more than a skeptic. his own former national security adviser says he would probably get out. what you're saying is important though about the condolence letters because when donald trump first traveled overseas to europe, his first trip wasn't to europe, it was to saudi arabia, but when he first traveled to

europe he refused america's commitment to article 5 and why we're the only country in nato to ask anyone to come to our defense is such a backward read on trump's part. >> yeah. the nato treaty is incredibly short and elegant. you can read it in ten minutes. the beating heart of that treaty, nicole, as you know is article 5 which says fairly simply that an attack on one nation will be regarded as an attack on all nations. as you say and as i eluded to. the only way there has been a need to operationalize article 5 was after the u.s. was attacked. europeans came with us and fought with us and died with us. yes, i am celebrating the alliance today, but i am very

worried about the previous statements of donald trump, the team he has around him that are advising him. i think they have an inarticulate view of nato. they don't see the value in it. i'll conclude with this, nicole, yes, we should be pushing the europeans to collectively increase their defense spending to meet the 2% goal. they've established 23 out of the 32 nations are doing so. the all of them need to do it, and given russia and the exigent threat there, it seems to me the goal that 2% ought to be raised to something around 2.5%. u.s. spends 3.5% on defense. i'd like to see more out of our europeans, but bottom line, this is an alliance that offers real value for the united states of america. >> ian, president joe biden has strengthened nato, that is undeniable, but the autocratic

alliance has also been strengthened. the first ever meeting between vladimir putin and kim jung un has taken place. viktor orban has been shuttling between china and russia. the just talk about the real power struggles set up for the next american president between autocracy and democracy. >> nicole, we all know that history doesn't repeat but it rhymes, and i think this first quarter. the industrial revolution changes in how society functions were incredibly disruptive to civilizations and societies around the world. that disruption caused people around the world to run to extremes, to the extremes of

communism on the left, fascisms on the right. what form of government, what direction was going to dominate the 20th century snp and thankfully in large part because of american leadership the winner of that battle was democracy. and 20th century was democracy's century. and here we are now in the early days of the 21st century, not the industrial revolution, it's the information revolution, which is up ending society across the world and once again that disruption is causing civilizations the world over to look to extremes. you see them rising across the world with extremes coming from the right in places like eastern europe, turkey, russia, or coming from the left in places like venezuela or china. and, again, america is here at the center deciding whether we will lead the 21st century to be

an even stronger century for democracy or whether, if donald trump has his way, we will join those rising forces of autocracy and make the 21st century one where autocracy is the order of the day. i think the stakes are nothing short of that. the. >> yeah. i mean, ian, i'm glad you said that because it feelings like one of the tools or tactics of the authoritarian is to make us so scared and anxious we only focus inward. this alliance is absolutely on the line, on the ballot, if you will, in november. >> yeah. look, nato has been one of the key bullwarks in which there is a rules based order. there are values of freedom and democracy where they are the dominant values of the world. nato was key in upholding that.

donald trump has made it clear that's not what he wants, that he wants to abandon that. am you've seen other corners of his maga world say about things like the u.s. supreme court, that they got the 20th century wrong and they want to essentially repeal the 20th century. you see that domestically and you see that being argued for internationally by donald trump and his allies. that is the question that is, frankly, before the american voters in november, whether we want the 21st century to be one of freedom and democracy or whether we want to go backwards and become a world that is done by might and not right. >> ian gets credit for speaking over the incredible sounds of the pomp and circumstance. we are lucky to be joined by state department spokesperson, our old friend matt miller. matt, just jump into the conversation about the stakes,

import and the moment in which president joe biden addresses the nato alliance? >> reporter: well, i think that's exactly what you're going to hear from the president tonight. the place he's giving this speech is the location where the north atlantic treaty itself was signed 75 years ago. what i think you'll see the president say tonight is to discuss the important role that nato continues to play to keeping america safe, to keeping europe safe. you know, nato is the most important security alliance in the history of the world. for 75 years it's kept us safe. it kept us safe from the russian aggression in the cold war and it keeps europe safe from russian aggression today. you'll hear the president talk about the stakes of supporting nato. he'll talk about what nato has done to support ukraine and what it continues to do to support ukraine. over the next few days over the summit you'll see significant new announcements from the united states and from our nato allies and our partners about what we're doing to support

ukraine and you'll hear those from the president tonight including new announcements to provide ukraine with air defense capabilities to defend itself from the brutal russian attacks like the one we saw on a children's hospital just yesterday. >> matt, the children's hospital brought me back to the brutal slaughter of ukrainian civilians in the town of bucha, where the free world saw those as brutal atrocities and war crimes and vladimir putin was reported to have rewarded the soldiers who carried out those brutal, brutal attacks in bucha. what is the president's view and the secretary of state's view about sort of the competition for attention to the atrocities still being carried out on a near daily basis by vladimir putin in ukraine? >> well, you know, sometimes the world does move on. there's a lot going on in the world obviously and it's hard for people to pay attention to everything at once, but i can tell you those of us in the government have not lost focus on ukraine for one minute.

we've continued to focus on getting the support to ukraine that it needs. obviously we've had a big fight to get the supplemental pass. that did pass much later than we have preferred. we have been surging military assistance to ukraine since it passed. even though we focus on military assistance, that's not the only assistance we're providing to ukraine. we're providing economic and diplomatic assistance. other work we're doing is work to help ukraine stand on its own two feet. you'll see events highlighting the fact around 2 dozen countries have signed long-term security agreements to help ukraine plan a path for its future to defend itself from russian aggression. we know russia isn't going away. russia will be ukraine's neighbor. as long as we can imagine, and so ukraine's going to have to be able to defend itself against russia for the foreseeable future and we're helping ukraine do that. >> matt, you've been part of a

lot of conversations at this table, virtual table i guess these ds since before your service in government. you know, we've spent a lot of time focused on the threat donald trump represents to the rule of law in america, to the norms. i think you were one to first mock our reliance on norms as inadequate when dealing with someone like donald trump, but the only people perhaps equally or maybe more worried about donald trump returning to the white house are our allies, our european allies. what kinds of conversations does the secretary have to reassure them? >> reporter: so the secretary has a line he likes to say where he does policy not politics. i'm going to stick to that here. but obviously in all of our conversations with our european allies, they pay attention to our elections just as we pay attention to the elections of countries overseas, and i will say as it comes to this conversation about ukraine, one of the things i think vladimir putin has bet on from the beginning is that the west would fracture, that the west would lose focus, that the west would

stop supporting ukraine and allow russia to march unchecked through eastern ukraine, through kyiv as far as they've wanted to go. and the thing that we have made clear to them, and president biden made clear this to them before their february 2022 invasion, and he has ma i had it clear to russia every day since, and that's as long as he is president of the united states, the united states will stand with ukraine because it's important to stand up for democracy when it's attacked by tyranny, and it's also important to the united states security because if russia is allowed to continue unchecked, they won't stop at ukraine. they will continue to attack other democracies, other countries in europe, so it's important we stop them now. and i do think you hear -- you always hear from allies, will the united states be there? and what we have shown to date is that we will be there, and i can tell you as long as joe biden is the president, tony

blinken is the secretary, that's where we'll continue to stand. >> matt miller, thank you for carving out time for us. always great to speak with you. >> thank you. >> let me bring michael crowley into this conversation. michael crowley, these are always international news events. this one has an added layer of keen interest among domestic audiences. you may not normally tune in for a speech to nato leaders. your thoughts on what's gone into this speech tonight? >> well, nicole, thanks for having me. there are two different levels on which the speech is happening, obviously. now one is the -- the level that we would be experiencing were it not for president biden's notorious debate performance, and i think the really core messages there are, number one, showing that nato is strong and unified and its largely message

to vladimir putin saying that, you know, you think you can grind down ukraine. you think you can wait out the west. you think that time is on your side, but it's not. our resolve is not faltering. our unity is solid. we're coming up with more and more resources for ukraine and we're not giving up. at the same time, i believe matt's boss, secretary of state antony blinken, i know has said in the last couple of days it's also an opportunity to try to explain to you citizens of nato countries what their money is paying for, why nato is important and what it is achieving, the kind of security that it's providing and the defense of some of the values you've been talking about earlier, democracy and free societies. then, of course, as i tonight have to tell you, the other level on which this is all hang is a kind of perform mative aspect for president biden to try to make up for the ground that he lost in that debate, to try to show he's healthy, he's vigorous and he's mentally acute.

i would just add that that is not only for a domestic political audience, but you better believe the foreign leaders and diplomats here in washington are watching him just as closely as you are, as political consultants, pollsters, trump campaign advisers are. everyone is sizing up president biden because for the nato diplomats and leaders, they want to know what president biden's prospects of re-election are. they understand that a president -- a second trump presidency could be hugely disruptive to nato, hugely disruptive to trans atlantic relations and i think most of them, honestly, are hoping that president biden nails it and he gets back on his feet and they'll never say it publicly, but i believe that most of the leaders and diplomats here with some notable exceptions we can talk about, including mr. orban, are clearly hoping to see president biden regain his stride because they want continuity. they like where things are going with nato, with u.s., european,

trans atlantic situation and they want him to be the nominee and win in november. >> it's such a good point, michael crowley. this is -- if you had to hope for a stage on which joe biden is the most comfortable, is the most joe biden, where his experience is an asset and higgs age is sort of secondary to that, this would be that event. >> yeah. it was kind of a running joke, nicole. when he was vice president and pretty sure when he was out of office president biden was still going to the munich security conference which is this wonky gathering of european and u.s. security officials. they talk about the future of nato, ukraine, trans atlantic relations. president biden loved it. he would never stop going. he knew everyone there. he was on first name bases with all of these leaders and diplomats. i do think this is his comfort zone. he came of age during the cold war. in many ways he's part of a cold war i don't remember.

partly why he's risen to the challenge with russia and vladimir putin, it puts a lot of those pieces back together. the trans atlantic alliance, nato versus russia, the former soviet union. this is his sweet spot. the language he's fluent in. he ought to nail it today. if he struggles in such a comfort zone, that's an indication of a problem. >> we are watching as they watch a video, then i think there's someone ahead of president joe biden. we promise you will not miss a second of the president's address tonight as "new york times" reporter michael crowley is saying, this is president joe biden's crowd. this is president joe biden's comfort zone and everybody in that room and the vast majority of americans hoping that he nails it. we're going to sneak in a quick break as we continue to wait for these remarks to begin at the nato summit in washington. we'll bring you the speech in

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fascination with putin who, of course, is the adversary, really puts in question the viability of nato. now this is -- the problem with that, with these arrangements is that once you undermine the trust in them, the language, you don't have to amend article 5 of the nato agreement, but once people feel that the united states cannot be counted on, is not consistent, and trump actively seeks to undermine that

confidence, then all sorts of terrible consequences can ensue. dictators are encouraged. >> we are back with ian bassin, admiral and michael crowley. admiral, elaborate on that point. what do autocrats and adversaries do in response to trump's constant attacks on nato? >> yeah. let me start with picking up something mike said a moment ago about joe biden, and it gets to the heart of why alliances are more than just treaties and pieces of paper. they are the acts of nations and they are the individuals who lead those nations. i remember hosting a dinner at the allied supreme leaders. the guest was vice president of the united states, joe biden.

vice president biden went around the room and to every one of those ambassadors he would say something meaningful, personal, attached to the leader of that country. that level of experience, that bonded grip between the united states and our european allies was palpable in the room that night. back to where we started this conversation, yes, the president needs to nail it tonight to continue to build and hold that trust. i think he will do so and we'll know in a few moments. final thought, as you alluded to, it's not just our allies who are listening, it is our enemies as well. people like vladimir putin who blows up children's hospitals, puts medals on troops who commit war crimes, who has gone after

the electric grid of ukraine. these are all war crimes, nicole, and all indicative of the evil that this alliance has to continue to confront, and to do so most effectively we need the bonds of trust at the strategic, the national and, indeed, at the personal level. i think we'll see that on display over the next couple of days. >> you know, ian, as everyone has sort of got their eyes and ears and heads in this summit, i -- it feels dirty, you know, to introduce the choice that the american voter has in november. everything we're looking at, this could be the last time we look at this again. i mean, donald trump is against nato. donald trump refused to affirm america's commitment to article 5 even though america's the only country in the alliance to ever cash out. he's so obsessed with cashing in and cashing out. we're the only ones ever to withdraw from that promise in

the treaty, and this could never be something that happens in america again. nato -- nato might go on, but it wouldn't celebrate in america if donald trump withdrew or sought to destroy nato. and the celebration of vladimir putin that donald trump engages in on a near weekly basis, to think about the way he rewarded the soldiers who carried out the atrocities in bucha, and i'm sure the ones who bombed the children's hospital in kyiv will also be rewarded by putin because he admires brutality, that's who's on the ballot. this guy, joe biden, a guy who celebrates vladimir putin who celebrates war crimes. >> well, whether nato endures on the international stage and whether democracy endures in our domestic theater here at home

both hinge on the same fundamental challenge, which is whether you can hold a pro democracy coalition together. democracy is about bringing people together across differences and creating coalitions. you don't need coalitions so much under dictatorship or authoritarianship, but in democracies you have to have coalitions. one of the things joe biden has done extremely well as president, one of his greatest achievements, has been solidifying the international coalition that is nato and be that is the liberal west. he has absolutely revitalized it in the early days here of the 21st century, and now he's facing the challenge at home of holding the pro democracy coalition together here in the united states. and what we've seen over and over again, both at home and abroad, is that when the pro democracy coalition holds together, it can and does defeat authoritarianism. when it fractures, you see

places like poland, hungary, other countries ride to power on plurality support. here at home the pro democracy and high trump coalition has been the strongest force in american politics for the last seven years. it's either won or exceeded in every election including in 2016 including in his victory and he has been successful and right now at a moment where that coalition is currently at odds with itself, it is another challenge for the president to step up and solve. he's got to hold the pro democracy coalition at home together with the same talent and vigor and success he's done on the international stage. >> someone who's carrying a similar message to what you just did, ian bassin, is president joe biden's vice president, kamala harris. everyone is watching her. we have a journalist in the room listening to her remarks. let's listen in. >> trump's advisers have created

a 900 page blueprint be they're calling project 202 detailing everything else they plan to do in the second term, including a plan to cut social security, to repeal our $35 cap on insulin, to eliminate the department of education and end programs like head start. and project 2025 outlines a plan to limit access to contraception and for a nationwide abortion ban with or without an act of congress. if implemented -- if implemented, this plan would be the latest attack in donald

trump's full-on assault on reproductive freedom. >> we won't forget. >> no, we will not. and remember, remember, then president donald trump hand picked three members of the united states supreme court because he intended for them to undo the protections of roe v. wade. and as he intended, they did. the now over 20 states have a trump abortion ban, many with no exceptions even for rape and incest. and trump has not denied, much less shown remorse, for his actions. instead, he proudly, uses the word proudly, takes credit for overturning roe. so make no mission stake, if trump gets the chance, he will sign a national abortion ban to outlaw abortion in every single state. but we are not going to let that happen.

buy are not. we are not going to let that happen because we trust women. we know, women know what's in their own best interests and don't need their government telling them what to do with their body! and when congress passes a law that restores the reproductive freedoms of roe, our president, joe biden, will sign it into law. so ultimately in this election we each, we each face a question. what kind of country do we want to live in, a country of freedom, compassion and rule of law -- >> yes. >> -- or a country of chaos -- >> no. >> -- fear. >> no. >> -- and hate.

>> no. >> and here's the thing. here's the thing. i say this to a group of people who already know this. we each have the power. >> yes. >> we have the power to answer this question. so if the supreme court says the laws do not apply to donald trump. if people like mike pence are not around to stand up to him, and if extremists in this congress continue to bow down to him, our last defense, our last line of defense is the ballot box. >> yes. >> our vote. our vote. in 2020 and 2022 it was the leaders in this room and in this community who showed the power of your voice and your vote, and in 2024 we need you to do it

again. >> yeah! >> so today i ask nevada, are you ready to make your voices heard? do we believe in freedom? do we believe in opportunity? do we believe in the promise of america? and are we ready to fight for it? >> yeah! >> and when we fight, we win! god bless you and god bless the united states of america. [ cheers and applause ] >> vice president kamala harris hitting all of the themes around which this election will turn, the extremism of the republican ticket. the donald trump appointed supreme court taking away a woman's right to choose. this, mike memoli, joining us

from the white house, is the split screen the white house needs every day and needs every day. >> reporter: that's right, nicole. this is the campaign that has tried to respond by raising the stakes of the election. vice president very clearly trying to do this by focusing on, number one, their potentially biggest domestic issue, advantage in this race, which is the overturning of roe versus wade, the dobbs decision. you heard the vice president very clearly once again predicting that president trump would sign a nationwide abortion ban if it were passed by a republican congress. she also according to the prepared remarks, i don't know if we heard that in this excerpt, she was referring to the supreme court decision on immunity saying donald trump wants to turn this country into dictatorship and the supreme court said they will let him do that. this is a message that's directly irrelevant we're about to hear from president biden in a much less pointed, much less

political way. the summit the president is hosting here in washington of nato leaders marking the 75th anniversary is not entirely coincidental in terms of the election calendar. the biden campaign certainly knew this was going to be happening on the eve of the republican national convention next week. president biden has talked so often about how one of his proudest accomplishments in office so far was the way he was able to rally the world, rally so many of our allies in support of ukraine and how he has framed this moment in our history in a global history as one in which democracies versus autocracies are competing for global supremacies. this is a moment the president and his team intended to showcase one of his greatest strengths in terms of his diplomatic resume. often we have heard from the white house in response to questions about his age comes wisdom and experience and the experience he has been able to show, you've been talking about

it with your other great panelists, that he's been able typically with regard to ukraine is a major accomplishment. we can't separate as the white house has viewed this and the campaign a series of major moments that began with the campaign. a spotlight on his performance and the way in which he speaks and can command that audience of fellow world leaders is something a lot of democrats, especially here in washington, members of congress who returned this week who have for the most part rallied behind him, but we had another congressman from new jersey, somebody with her own national security credentials and experience saying she believes the president should re-evaluate and perhaps not run for re-election. this is a moment of import for the president as democrats want to see him continue to show the strength that i believe he can still bring to this commitment. >> mike memoli, the reporting super important.

i don't want to lose the thread of kamala harris. whatever happens, this is a healthy process for the democratic party to engage in. i will support personally any opposition to donald trump. there is something remarkable about kamala harris in this moment. she's a prosecutor prosecuting a case against a convicted felon and there's something so powerful. you could just hear her connecting in that room. i wonder -- i know there's more press traveling with her, mike memoli. some of that is a product of the calendar. some of that is a product of what you just described, the intense scrutiny on the campaign. some of it is a president has to president and the vice president is a normal surrogate. tell us about this moment for kamala harris according to the white house? >> reporter: yes. i spent a few days on the road with the vice president before the debate and be saw this firsthand.

she gave that major speech in the washington suburbs on the anniversary of the dobbs decision. this was a major part of her portfolio before she traveled to arizona but also hitting immigration. it's obvious for anybody who's been following the course of her time in office the fact that she has a much bigger platform in the administration now than she did before the announcement of the president's plans to seek a second term. the biden team aware of, yes, there would be questions around his age and they wanted her elevated. this is a team of advisers who were around vice president biden. i spent time on air force 2 and saw how important it was to have a strong vice president out there making the case consistently. one of the big potential assets she brings to the table, she is a former prosecutor. she was a d.a. in san francisco, she was the attorney general of california for six years.

there is value having her out doing what she did. one of the events i covered on the road with her recently, she laid out almost the rap sheet of donald trump as she was talking about the abortion issue but she did it in a very clever way, talking about how he sort of, in legal terms, admitted his guilt, confession she put it as she was quoting him in his past statements on abortion and appointing supreme court justices who ultimately overturned be that right nationwide, that constitutional guarantee. this is exactly the kind of case that is going to be part of her messaging going forward regardless. there are people who i have spoken to who, as we've discussed the potential future if biden were to step aside, i'm going to preface that the president said he does not intend to do so, but what we've talked about the biden coalition of voters may be more powerful as an antitrump coalition. without the potential distractions around biden's age

and whether he's up for the job, having the vice president then at the top of the ticket potentially with somebody like governor roy cooper of north carolina who himself served 16 years as the attorney general of north carolina before as he was in his final year, eight years of a governor, would represent a strong ticket that a lot of democrats like the idea of in making the final 119 days of this campaign one about prosecuting the case against donald trump and rallying a coalition of voters beyond the typical democratic winning coalition to do just that. >> i want to bring into our conversation the president of reproductive freedom for all, mini timerageau. you are prosecuting the case against taking rights away from women. to hear kamala harris do it, whether she's at the top, whether she's where she is right now, is so effective. and i am thinking back to her taking apart bill barr in

questioning. i mean, this is a position that she is very, very, very effective at and sort of the way in that speech that we listened to, the way the speech mike memoli talked about, her ability to prosecute a case against trump and trumpism, very powerful. >> she's been the leading voice on reproductive freedom since the dobbs decision. having kamala harris on this ticket is so incredibly important and powerful. having her be the voice and the lead on prosecuting this case against donald trump as the person who decimated reproductive freedom, right? appointed the super majority of activist justices who have gutted our freedoms. kamala is so incredibly compelling. she's such an incredible asset to this ticket. i also want to point out, that was a launch event for

asian-americans and the base of this coalition is women and people of color. she is not only embodying that, the enthusiasm, that's her base. that's her community. it's just so important to get her out there with the people who are really driving the work and outside of d.c. >> well, i'm so glad you brought it back to that. it isn't for any of us to decide, right. >> that's right. >> it's for the base of the democratic party to make those decisions. i will vote for whomever the wise people that make up the democratic party decide. mini, say more about the split screen. you've got president joe biden in his comfort zone. you have kamala harris prosecuting the political case. say something about the stakes in your space and in the area of freedom more broadly. >> look. you know, the day of the debate, not going to mince words, it was a tough one. reproductive rights held the leaders. we support the president. we know this administration has

done the most of any u.s. administration on reproductive free doom. we know that the trump agenda, whether it's project 2025 or even the really problematic party platform they put out that purports to soften itself on abortion but actually does some really dangerous stuff around really advancing fetal personhood, treating embryos as a person, the split screen right now that we're seeing, it shows the president in his stature, in his seniority, in his credibility as a leader and the vice president on the stump really taking it to the people and drawing this contrast. donald trump cannot be trusted on a world stage. he is not respected internationally and kamala harris is going to drive it home and bring it to the people. >> president joe biden. ♪♪ ♪♪ >> good evening.

welcome. in 1949 the leaders of 12 countries, including president truman, came together in this very room. history was watching. it had been four years since he surrendered the powers and ended the most devastating world war the world had ever, ever known. here these 12 leaders gathered to make a sacred pledge to defend each other against aggression, to provide the collective security and be to answer threats as one because they knew to prevent future wars, to protect democracies, to lay the groundwork for lasting peace and prosperity, they needed a new approach. they needed to combine their strernts, they needed alliance and here they signed the washington treaty and created the north atlantic treaty

organization, the single greatest, most effective defensive alliance in the history of the world. mr. secretary general, leaders of nato countries, foreign defense ministers, representatives from partner nations and the our repine on, members of congress, distinguished guests, welcome. welcome to the 2024 nato summit. it's a pleasure -- [ applause ] >> it's a pleasure to host you in this milestone year, to look back with pride at all we've achieved and look ahead to our shared future with strength and with resolve. together we rebuild europe from the ruins of war, held high the torch of liberty during long decades of the cold war. the when former adversaries became fellow democracies we welcomed in in a new alliance.

when war broke out in the balkans we intervened to restore peace and stop ethnic cleansing, and when the united states was attacked on september 11th, our nato allies, all of you stood with us invoking article 5 for the first time in nato history treating an attack on us as an attack on all of us. a breathtaking display of friendship that the american people will never, ever, ever forget. through all of this history great changes occurred people would ask, can nato adapt? and every time we've proved we could adapt, and we did, evolving our strategy to stay ahead of threats. reaching out to new partners to increase our effectiveness. and here with us today are countries from the indo pacific region. they're here because they have a stake in our success and we have a stake in theirs. today nato is more powerful than

ever. 32 nations strong. for years finland and sweden were among our closest partners. now they have chosen to officially join nato and because of the power and meaning of article 5 guarantee, that's the reason. the most important aspect of the alliance in 1949 and is still the most important aspect. i'd also note finland and sweden joined the alliance not just because their leaders sought it, but because their citizens called for it in overwhelming numbers. remember, nato's character is fundamentally democratic. always has been and always must continue to be. and fundamentally democratic. always has been and always must continue to be. and today, nato's a better resource than it ever has been. i want to pause on this because it's significant. the year 2020, the year i was

elected president, only nine nato allies were spending 2% of their defense gdp on defense. this year, 23 will spend at least 2%. and some will spend more than that. and the remaining countries that have not yet reached that milestone will get theirs soon. this remarkable progress, proof that our commitment is broad and deep. that we're ready. that we're willing. we're able. to deter aggression and defend every inch of nato territory across every domain. land. air. sea. cyber and space. my friends, it's good we're stronger than ever. because this moment in history calls for our collective

strength. autocrats -- which is by and large kept for nearly 80 years and counting. terrorist groups continue to plot evil schemes. cause mayhem and chaos and suffering. in europe, putin's war of aggression against ukraine continues. and putin wants nothing less, nothing less than ukraine's total subjugation. to destroy ukraine's culture. and to wipe ukraine off the map. and we know putin won't stop at ukraine. but make no mistake. ukraine can and will stop putin. especially with our full collective support. they have our full support. even before bombs were falling on ukraine, the alliance acted.

i ordered the u.s. reenforcements at nato's eastern flank. more troops, more aircraft, more capabilities and now the united states has more than 100,000 troops on the continent of europe. nato moved swiftly as well. not only reenforcing the four groups in the east but adding four more in bulgaria, hungary, romania and slovakia. essentially doubling strength on the eastern flank. together, we've built a global coalition to stand with ukraine. together we provided significant economic and humanitarian assistance and together, we've supplied ukraine with weapons its needs to defend itself. tanks. armored fighting vehicles. long range missiles. millions of munitions. united states nearly two dozen allied partners have signed a bilateral security agreement to

ukraine and more countries will follow. today, i'm announcing the historic donation of air defensive equipment for ukraine. the united states, germany, netherlands, romania, and italy will provide ukraine with the equipment for five additional strategic air defense systems and in the coming months, the united states and our partners will continue to provide ukraine is tactical air defense systems. united states will make sure when we expert intercepters, ukraine goes to the front of the line. they'll get this assistance before anyone else gets it. all told, ukraine will receive hundreds of additional intercepters over the next year. helping protect ukrainian cities against russian missiles. ukrainian troops facing air attacks on their front lines. make no mistake.

russia is failing in this war. more than two years into putin's war of choice, his losses are staggering. more than 350,000 russian troops dead or wounded. nearly 1 million russians, many of them young people, have left russia because they no longer see a future in russia. and kyiv, remember, fellas and ladies, supposed to fall in five days. remember? it's still standing two and a half years later and will continue to stand. all we allies knew before this war putin thought nato would break. today, nato is stronger than it's ever been in its history when this senseless war began, ukraine was a free country. today, it is still a free country. and the war will end with ukraine remaining a free and

independent country. russia will not prevail. ukraine will prevail. ladies and gentlemen, this is a pivotal moment for europe and the transatlantic community and i might add for the world. let's remember the fact that nato remain it is bulwark of global security didn't happen by accident. it wasn't inevitable. again and again in critical moments, we chose progress over retreat, freedom over tyranny. hope over fear. again and again, we stood behind our shared vision of a peaceful and prosperous community. here at this summit, we proclaim nato is willing and able to secure that vision today and well into the future. let me say this.

an overwhelming bipartisan majority of americans understand that nato makes us all safer. the fact that both democratic republican parties are represented here today is a testament to that fact. the american people know with all the progress we've made in the past 75 years, has happened behind the shield of nato. the american -- stand for what happened if there was no nato. another war in europe. american troops fighting and dying. dictators spreading chaos. economic collapse. catastrophe. americans, they know we're stronger with our friend. and we understand this is a sacred obligation. as president reagan put it, and i quote, if our fellow democracy is not secure, we cannot be secured. if you are threatened, we are threatened. if you're not at peace, we

cannot be at peace. reagan knew it then. we know it now. our nation will continue to keep faith with what we pledged in the years to come. now if you'll indulge me, i'd like to end my remarks a slightly unusual way. nato's alliance of nations but also made up of leaders and one person in particular has done an extraordinary job for the last decade. secretary general stoltenberg, would you come forward? so much of the progress we've made in the alliance is thanks to the secretary. he's a man of integrity. and intellectual rigor, calm

temperament in a moment of crisis. consummate diplomat who works with leaders across the political spectrum and always finds a way to keep us moving forward. secretary, you've guided this alliance through one of the most consequential periods in its history. i realize, talking to your wife, i personally ask you to extend your service. forgive me. can you put your own plans on hold when the russian and ukraine war began, you didn't hesitate. today, nato is stronger. smarter. and more energized. than when you began. and a billion people across europe and north america, indeed the whole world, will reap the rewards of your labor for years to come. in the form of security, opportunity, and greater freedom. for these reasons, i'm pleased to award you the highest civilian honor the united states can bestow.

presidential medal of freedom. come forward. reason citation. >> the president of the united states of america awards this presidential medal of freedom to yen stoltenberg. ceaseless defender of democracy, secretary general stoltenberg has guided the nato alliance through the most consequential decade for european security since world war ii. when vladimir putin launched his brutal assault on the people of ukraine betting that nato