there is zero of that. you just have this implacable wall on the other side. >> i don't know if the media broodily defined or even americans in general have really been able to grapple with the nature of that closing of ranks around trump. it is, it is really hard to get one's mind around the fact that there is nothing he can do that will really tarnish his standing. >> thank you, i can not recommend it more highly. the most important, great energy transition, thank you, gentleman, both. appreciate it. >> thank you. that is all in, alex starts right now. good evening, alex, good to see

you, happy july 4th. >> is it the 11th? i don't know. >> have not seen you in a bit. >> i appreciate it. upbeat and patriotic. and i like upbeat patriotism. i only like it. >> that is what i got. thank you for that, my friend. we will get right to our big interview with michigan governor, governor whitmer. it is good timing because even before the biden/trump debate governor whitmerwas key in this election and likely in the future of the democratic party. since that debate her name was mentioned with greater frequency as a candidate on the democratic ticket should biden decide to leave this race. we will talk about the election and what all of this means for defeating trump and what is going on inside of the democratic party itself right now where there has been a lot of news today. democrats in the house and

senate met behind closed doors today to discuss the future of the biden candidacy. coming out of those meetings democrats given reporters a variety of responses about where they are. and where they think the party should be as it concerns president biden. >> my answer is, we will see. let's see the press conference, let's see the campaign stops, let's see all of this. all of it is going to be necessary. >> as the democratic candidate biden has my support. >> he just has to step down. he can not win. and my colleagues need to recognize that. >> riding with biden. >> joe biden is our nominee. he is not leaving this race. he is in this race and i support him. >> i have not changed my opinion that there are many other prominent democrats who can prosecute that case better. >> he had a bad debate.

former president trump had a horrific precedency. >> are you all on the same page? >> no. not even in the same book. >> today, new jersey democrat became the 9th member of congress by nbc news count to call on president biden to step aside as a democratic nominee. but it sounds like even the most vulnerable democrats in congress are coming to the realization that biden may not be going anywhere. a group of moderate democrats calling for him to step down is seeing their revolt crumble in what the outlet calls a rapidly disintegrating movement on capitol hill to get biden off of the ticket. president biden for his part, adamant that he will stay in this race and fight on. as evidence of that he has a fairly packed schedule with a slew of public appearances. tonight, the president gave remarks at the nato summit in washington. it follows an interview with abc news last week and a

surprise phone interview on msnbc this week. this thursday, he will hold a press conference with reporters. on friday, he will travel to one of the most important swing states, the state of michigan. now, for several election cycles michigan has been the center of the political universe. but after the debate there was a new reason to focus on the state. the young relatively-popular, two-term governor gretchen whitmer. in recent weeks you might of heard her name in who might lead the ticket. governor whitmersaid she is 100% behind the president's decision to stay in the race and she will continue in the role of co-chair. something that will not be unhelpful. it could be helpful indeed to biden in a key battleground state. remember, in the final years of

the trump precedency, governor whitmer emerged as a hero of the anti-trump coalition, she stared down president trump's threats to withhold key covid aid as people were dying from the virus, with stood threats and domestic terrorism including a plot to kidnap and assassinate the governor herself. and all of that is detailed in her new book. true gretch. what i learned about life, leadership and everything in between. governor whitmer thank you for being here. you picked a doozey of a week to have your book come out. we will get to all of that in a moment. but i want to ask you about the state of democratic politics right now. the "new york times" editorial board has been unstinting in their calls for president biden to step out of the race. together, another op-ed out today. the figure that they put attached the most weight to is this polling number, the latest

polling showing 74% of voters believe that joe biden is too old to serve. that is an increase of 5% points since the debate. what does that number mean to you >>. >> well, i think it is important to recognize the debate did not go well, right? i think we all understand that. what we have seen from the president since then is an aggressive calendar. i went to washington, d.c. with a number of colleagues, sat with him days after the debate. got a chance to see him, i spoke with him last saturday with all of the co-chairs of the campaign. he is in it. he is going to fight like hell to make sure that we continue the work that he has begun in his first term. i have confidence in him and i am continuing to support him. i know it rattled a lot of people. people saw that, it shook them, their worst concerns about, you know, having two very older candidates running for this important office. yet, he has been right on all of the issues h he is ready to

go, coming to michigan at the end of the weekend and i am proud of supporting the president. he has to prove to people he is up to the moment. i think he is going to. >> i do wonder, though, 3/4s of the american public think he is too old. he will not get younger is that something he can outrun? is that a perception he can shift between now and november? >> the only way you shift it is showing people what you are capable of and that is what he is doing and that the right way. flood the zone, show people you are up to meeting this moment. man, he is getting a lot done. he has the receipts and i think it is such a stark contrast. i am feeling pretty solid about where we are. but, obviously, there is a lot of work to do. >> i know you feel solid, reporting today that a group of vulnerable swing state democrats had a meeting this morning and it was characterized as dispond

dispondent and with tears not tears, tears because he staying what is your message to them as they grapple with the prospect of the president staying in the race and think that will decide their fortunes and not for good? >> the only one who will make a decision about if the president is in the race or not it is the president. he made the decision, time to stop ringing your hands and roll up your sleeves. we have work to do. we are capable of meeting this moment. no question in my mind. people are concerned about the cost of everything, we got to remind them, everything joe biden and kamala harris has done is putting money back in people's pockets. supply chains, we have a manufacturing boom happening in this country. not happening under the last guy. happened because of joe biden's leadership. those are good-paying jobs, that is what is at stake. a woman's right to make her own decisions about her body and health care. all of there is at stake. continuing to talk about what

may or may not happen is all based on one person's decision, he made his decision so let's go. >> basically stop your whining. >> stop the crying, dry your tears, i am not criticizing people who are concerned. i get it, but, i also know that our success in november is dependent on all of us doing the hard work that we need to do and that is what i am going to stay focused on. >> can i ask i a question, back and forth a quote attributed to you, that you told biden's chair that after the debate michigan was no longer winnable for joe biden. now, that has been attributed to someone close to a potential 2028 rival for the presidential nomination, i think people have theories about who that might be? do you have a theory? >> i don't have a theory, all i can say it is irresponsible for anyone to publish something from a staff person to another

potential down the road four years now attributing something that happened in a two-person conversation, called me like a lot of people checking in after the debate. id, it is always been tough in mish gap. no one would be surprised to hear it. i have said it every year i have been alive. elections are always close in the state of michigan. we don't clutch our pearls and get upset down two points or celebrate up two points so i would never say that michigan is unwinnable. it is fundamentally untrue. >> do you think it will be narrower than 2020? >> well, in 2016 it was 11,000. in 2020 it was 150,000. when i won two years ago it was, i won by 11 points. you don't win that big of a margin without getting cross over votes without doing the hard work, showing up for people, reminding them what you have done to help make their

lives better. a little easier. that is what this president has done that is what we have, the work yet to do in front of us. i am confident we have a powerful story to tell and it will resinate. >> when you talk about the work that is ahead, i see almost a glimmer in your eye. $is a happy warrior vibe there. -- there is a happy warrior vibe. i am not asking you to give the president advice but what would you like to see from him in terms of a strategy. beyond talking about the great accomplishments with a very, very narrow senate majority. just practically speaking in terms of personality. you used humor to secure your critics. used it against donald trump, how much should he talk about his age and use humor about his age? what is his assessment? >> i think the best advice is let joe be joe. let gretchen be gretchen. i know when i felt everyone was

throwing so much at me it was hard to, you know, show up as i am. that is, that is really important. to be able to connect with people. joe biden cares about people. he dedicated his life to public service. he shows up in the hardest of circumstances his own hard circumstances and keeps showing up for other people and that will be really important. the happy warrior is something that i had to work at. does not come naturally to say this is going to be fun. i love the fight. and . >> i love the death threats. bring it on. let's go. but that is really important to, to show people, we are not afraid. he is not afraid. he has been doing this and dedicated his life of to this work and he will continue it come hell or high water that is the point. >> do you like the postures which is like only the lord ole might segetting out. buckle up, i am in it to win it. >> i thinking it is important for him to show a little swagger.

yeah, he has got the receipts. what can donald trump say about his time as president? well, we had hundreds of thousands of people die from covid. we had an economy that was, that was dire straits. this president, president biden has got receipts he can tell people what he has done for them. and i think that is an important part of it. show a little swagger doing it. >> you know, you have taken on trump in a way that few other people have. certainly as a woman you have been one of the most successful at the dumb nicknames et cetera. you write in the book. i refuse to let the president define me. i took the insult, that woman in michigan is what he called you. i flip today and made it my own. that is the secret dealing with bullies, you take their weapon and make it your shield. how does that apply with trump and what he is doing and the threats they are serious on some level, how do you flip the script, how do you make people to wake up to it and understand

donald trump is not the best man. >> he is a good salesperson. i will give him that complement. his actions do not follow it. he just tried to change a little bit, make it a little softer the platform when it comes to women's reproductive rights but you know, i know, he is the person who is responsible for roe v. wade getting overturned. we know that he put 3 justices on the supreme court who lied to congress, betrayed their oath and ultimately had the dobbs decision because of their work. he took credit for it and boosted it now trying to get softer. give me a break. call it out. use plain language. people are smart, they are busy. they are not consuming information like you and i are. they don't have the time. no fault of their own. trying to get the kids off to school. get to work on time and put

food on the table. we have to help them understand and remember how high the stakes and are what is at risk. >> you bring up the rnc platform in the way they are now saying it is a state level issue, right? it is a change in where the party has been before. i am sensing just in the fact that you want to talk about how to talk about abortion that there is some concern that this republican party strategy can be successful. that it will convince lower end voters republicans are not crazy on abortion, right? states rights or they will hear about the softening of the platform. how concerned should democrats be? that they are playing on it. >> we can not assume people understand the high stakes on this front. we have to make it very clear and connect the dots for people. there is no way women would be

fighting for their lives in some stakes, if it was not for trump. we know that the case can very much come back to life. we know that a reason for not rendering judgment on these cases is all that stands between us and a whole new situation in this country where we can not access medical abortion or contra septionz ception and guess what, stem cell could be in jeopardy. like the right to marry who you love. all of this is at risk. we can not use sight of it. republicans have been really good about saying it is all about the court, all about the court. guess what, when you control the court you control american's lives, the next president will have more appointees and that is what we can not help people lose sight of. >> we are looking down the

barrel of a number of years with this court where there is a conservative roll back of decades of progress. that could go into 2028 when president biden presumably will not be running again. your name has mentioned this week and prior weeks in the context. but it certainly mentioned in 2028. i want to bring up, you write it in your back to is fair game? >> okay. yes. >> you talk about, there is a mention when you are talking about owning your mistakes as an important sort of lesson that you learned. you acknowledge you made a mistake during covid by violating your own states covid restrictions by a gathering in a bar and you point out that governor newsom made a similar mistake and you drew this contrast in the book. gavin and i have had that in common even though he was dining at a three-star restaurant and i was in a dive

bar. the apology is the same. is that the difference? french laundry versus that. >> no, not at all. i appreciate all of the work he is doing. certainly helped me over the years. i am grateful. i just wanted to point out we are all human. we make mistakes on. >> french laundry. i don't know about that. governor governor newsom. he made a mistake, he own today, dignity and did it. i did as well. a different circumstance, you know, i violate covid restrictions at a dive bar but i was making fun of myself. >> maybe it was more work at a dive bar. >> i thinking it is important to recognize we are all human beings and fall short on occasion, the true leaders like newsom own it and apologize for it and that is what he did and that is what i did as well. i think it is important. our political leaders are not perfect. they are not better than us. any one of them that looks down

on people who treats people as though they do not matter or they themselves are flawless, are full of it. and i think that is why i wanted to share that story and i wanted to give him credit for doing what i think was the honorable thing to do in that situation. >> can i ask you one more question, i think it is a really important one. approaching politics with humility and a certain degree of joy and curiosity and enthusiasm, you are someone who has phased a death threat, a plot to kidnap and kill you. and, you note it in the book. you still to this day don't understand why your attempt to keep the people of michigan safe resulted in such a angry reaction. i wonder if not in the case of, you know, this plot particularly, how and why you think the right wing has gotten so incensed, so dangerously violent in the rhetoric around possible officials and the notion of community and our

shared experience and keeping that community safe, what has happened? >> you know, that is what i am hoping to understand. when i talk about these plotters i also in the book talk about my favorite thing to do is engage with people. i am as comfortable in a black church at a bowling alley. there more so than a black-tie dinner. now with all of the rhetoric and the heat and the threats that have happened i am not as comfortable. it is sad. i would like to sit down with one of the plotters and understand. you know, i think ted lasso is one of the wisest people "be curious not judgmental" i am curious. it is not a rational thing to take up weapons and threaten to kill a sitting governor because she told you to wear a mask. what was going on in their live that i can understand or be a better person or better governor and learn. maybe there is nothing. maybe it would not be a good use of time.

i would like to try. i think there is something to learn. >> hard conversations but feels like they are overdue at this point, right isn't. >> absolutely. >> governor, i will leave it there. a big week for you not just in terms of the book. i am deeply appreciative of your time sitting here and answering hard questions about the democratic party. we are all working through it. again, the book is out today, called true gretch. what i learn about life, leadership and everything in between. >> and mentions of tattoos in there. worth reading. >> and shark week. [ laughter ] >> everything including trump likes talking about shark week >> michigan governor whitmer thanks for your time, good luck out there >> thank you. coming up, trump's attorneys have a new strategy for the next phase of his criminal case. will it work? but first, trump weighs in on biden and the democrats as biden and the democrats try to steer the party out of the woods. we talk about that, up next the woods. we talk about that, up next

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. the left democratic party is divided in chaos and having a full-scale break down all because they can not decide which of their candidates is more unfit to be president. sleepy joe biden or laughing kamala. >> laughing kamala. donald trump spoke at a rally today. first major public appearance in almost two weeks signaling after two weeks of semi-silence trump is ready to lean back in. president biden, meanwhile, spent the day addressing world leaders in loner of the 75th anniversary of the nato alliance and hosting the virtual call tonight with democratic mayors as he continues to rally support for his re-election bid. joining me now is jonathan

martin, senior political columnist for political >> if trump's ram bling and unhinged remarks he did challenge biden to another debate. this one without moderators that seems less likely to happen. i wonder if you think another debate is in store for the two individuals? >> biden would like another one if he is still on the ticket this fall. he wants to get a second crack at trump. i am sure he would like to get that do over. alex i am skeptical that trump would agree to a second debate. but it is donald trump so who the heck knows maybe he will do it because he can not resist the camera. but i think his advisories would strenuously advocate he not do that. in all likelihood he will have an advantage the polls and why

give biden a reason to climb it. >> here he is on a stage calling for it. i do want to ask in terms of the biden of it all, right? he is making calls to mayors, he had the meetings with governors, he out reached to the black caucus and what do you think of his strategy to circle the wagons right now? it is effective in some part bus not all. u.s. democratic senators in it is, you know, john tester or brown or michael bennett saying, president biden is going to lose. >> i just, i have just been speaking for most of the last three to four days to members of congress and governors to figure it out. it is deep anger at the president, his family and folks in the white house. democratic party is in a position right now.

obviously he does not want to withdrawal, he wants to stay in. democrats are worried he will lose and by a big marg and i know damage the party on the ticket. if you are a democrat in office right now and saying that biden should leave the ticket and biden refuses to do that, this fall, the republican party is going to throw that statement back at you and say you don't even want the guy in the race. you called for his oyster three months ago. it is a really, really tough spot. the biden strategy, i wrote about it in my column yesterday to replay the 2020 primary that the liberal white elite don't like me but i got the voters, the rank and file working people, black and hispanic folks on my side. you know, i think that is working in some corners for him. he obviously got strong support

on capitol hill. folks defending him. and, so, i think he is trying to ride it out by trying to reprise that strategy of the elite and the rank and file of the party. here is the complication. what happens the next time he has a bad public outing? what happens also when the next wave of polls come out showing him losing and losing considerably and hurting other folks on the tick neat to that end he will be have -- ticket. to that end he will be having a press conference and i wonder what the risk/reward is for that. performance in the abc interview did not squash concern. but how do you, what are the expectations on the part of democrats about the strategy to put him out more even in moments he is not reading from the teleprompter? >> you know when you are driving somewhere and you see a gas station just before a bridge and it says last chance

for gas or liquor, i feel like that press conference is the last chance they have, right? they are going over the bridge. this is it. if you want to fill up your tank before you go to a dry county or state. this is the moment. the press conference on thursday, if he hits it out of the park it will add. if it does not go well you will see another round of democrats trying to get him out. you will see some of the sen tots that have been quiet and talking in the background call for him to step out. i think it is a hot stakes moment. time is wasting, next week. trump is picking a running plate. there is it. there is the week. that press conference i i think, will tell us a lot.

>> you are taking better highways than i have there are signs saying last stop for liquor. have see the last gas. >> you have to drive through more dry states >> clearly. always great to get your wisdom, my friend. more ahead including what is behind the discussions on if kamala harris is qualified to be at the top of the ticket. first, donald trump's delay tactics and the numerous trials against him paid off vaguely. he is not done yet. i will explain right after the break . i will explain right after the break ♪ ♪ have you always had trouble losing weight and keeping it off? same. discover the power of wegovy®. ♪ ♪ with wegovy®, i lost 35 pounds. and some lost over 46 pounds. ♪ ♪ and i'm keeping the weight off.

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♪last week in a 6-3 decision along the lines the supreme court ruled that donald trump has salute immunity for official acts he took while in office. that he can face charges for unofficial conduct. that decision opened the door for u.s. district judge who is overseeing this case to hold hearings or minitrials in the near future. those hearings could feature testimony from witnesses including former vice president mike pence to determine which charges against trump can

survive. today, a new guardian report details trumps legal strategy to prevent any of that from coming to pass. trump's lawyers are ready to argue that the judge does not need to call witnesses to determine if trump's conduct is immune that she can just decide that based on legal arguments alone. even if the judge goes ahead with the hearings he is planning use executive privilege to block the testimony of key witnesses. joining me now to unpack all of this, federal prosecutor who specialized in financial fraud and white collar crime. he is, of course, the senior writer for political magazine. help me understand if it is feasible. she can just do this based on legal theory alone, is that possible? >> it should not be possible. if i was trump's lawyers i would make the saiment argument but if you read the opinion there are a couple things

striking. one, they left open, fairly wide open, sort of how the judge should approach implementing the standard that they created which is nebulous standard. the portion of the indictment that relates to trump's interaction with the justice department that is out of the case. the this is your 6:00 reportedly said it needs to be fact investigation. i think it is striking. part of the indictment that concerns his tweets on january 6th and in and around jan 6th and if you read that portion of the opinion the court says, you know, in order to determine if it is official or unofficial conduct the fact finder may need to learn about other communications around that period, the context of the communications, what else was said surrounding the relevant communication, who was involved in communications, none of it is in the indictment and all of it facts that the supreme court

said. it is an uphill battle for trump to say the supreme court foreclosed for fact finding. >> yes. exactly, and, presumable testimony with the white house officials, no? can they claim executive privilege and said mike pence is off of the table? bill barr is off of table when they are opening, asking the jt to know more about the conversations with some of the same people? >> well, look, i would expect those types of roadblocks to be raised. if i were the justice department i would point to the moments in time which they were litigated. during the grand jury process there were those issues and they were resolved with the justice department. it would be a harder sell to get barr on the stand given the holding of how trump is immune from any prosecution for those interactions with doj and then the accept rat ruling that the

judge did k not sphroa dyings, even if the case -- did that. if suggests maybe bill barr is off limits. there were many other people who were telling trump that his claims of election fraud were false. so, i don't think he is an essential witness for that purpose, at least. >> when you talk about what is happening with the justice department, can you imagine, i mean i know i am asking you to telegraph in a situation you don't happen to be in, but would you imagine that the special counsel's office is trying to trim this indictment so as to not drag out the proceedings even further or? just wait and march to the time line wherever it is laid out? >> i am sure they are discussing that seriously. there are pros and cons. the pro to like filing a

superseding indictment would be in theory you can sort of wipe the slate. trim the environment, file it in a way that is with the supreme court holding. the conis that you would be inviting a new round of motions. motion to dismiss. argue, reset the litigation, reschedule. and the other thing that i would add it is not totally unprecedented for portions of the justice department indictment to be dismissed in pretrial stage or portion presidency of it to be stricken. and the justice department does not need to get that indictment in that situation, they can redact the portions of the indictment and the jury gets a copy or no prevent it. okay. there are options. thank you, you are helpful, getting your assessment how it all plays out. thank you for making the time.

>> thank you. still ahead tonight, kamala harris may be the most obvious substitute for biden should he choose that path. she may be the most cont controversial controversial controversial controversial we will talk about that next we will talk about that next

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. we always knew this election will be tough. and the past few days have been

a reminder that running for president of the united states is never easy. but, the one thing that we know about our president, joe biden, is that he is a fighter. he is a fighter and he is the first to say when you get knocked down, you get back up. [ cheers and applause ] we all know many of us know what that is. >> that was vice president harris today speaking at a campaign event focused on asian american, native hawaii and pacific island communities. today was her sixth visit to nevada. this one was under a considerably bigger microscopes than any of the previous trips, this one comes as prominent democrats have been openly discussing if biden should drop out of the race and if that happens if vice president harris should replace biden at the top of the ticket.

harris, herself, publicly and reportedly rejected the idea of the president dropping out or being the one to replace him. the conversation about whether or not she is a good choice continued any way. it has become a conversation all about race. >> it is her turn. if you don't agree you are racist >> pick kamala or racist. >> just being a minority does not make you president. >> the understudy who they point out was not qualified to be president, that biden picked her because of her color and gender that is the mess they created. >> the problem with coronating harris. skipping over her would be racist or be perceived as such by black democratic voters yet, black voters shown time and time again their interests are

practical and demands are strategic. give us a candidate that will win and that, that is where the intense fixation on harris race falls apart the intense fixation on harris rac of e se fixation on harris rac falls apart falls apart. >> new cnn polling is giving kamala a lifeline. she's the only candidate within striking distance of trump. >> trump beats biden, but kamala harris beats trump, 42- 41. >> the question is, could kamala harris beat donald trump? vice president harris according to those polls, looks like the candidate democratic voters like the most as an alternative to president biden. so the idea she would be picked, as one fox news host put it, simply because of her color, that argument doesn't hold up. nt i will talk to my friend and colleague, simone -- symone sanders-townsend about what

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what kind of country do we want to live in? a country of freedom, compassion, and rule of law? or a country of chaos, fear, and hate? we have the power to answer this question. our last line of defense is the ballot box. >> vice president kamala harris was in nevada today, drawing sharp contrast between the biden presidency and trump presidency. but the spotlight was very much on vice president harris herself as certain democrats call for her to replace

president biden at the top of the democratic ticket. joining me now is symone sanders-townsend, host of msnbc's the weekend and she served as a former senior advisor and chief spokesperson to the vice president. thank you for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> fox news is saying they made it into a referendum. if you don't support kamala harris you are a racist. that ignores that in pulling if there had to be a replacement, harris is pulling the best, but it fundamentally misunderstands the motivations of black voters. a lot of people talk about what black voters want and i sort of wonder in terms of your experience and the voters you have talked to, black voters seem more pragmatic than identity based. >> black voters are extremely pragmatic. i would argue most black women in america are pragmatic, hence why they show up at the alex -- at the ballot box in various

ways. we went to pennsylvania and the suburbs. there are a lot of people like why don't you talk about real black women? i'm sorry, real black ladies live in the suburbs in which they vote. we talked about a range of things and one thing that we talked about, unprompted, was the vice president. we talked to seven intergenerational women. they all say that they like her. there are some clips. one woman posed the question and said how would you feel if they skipped over the vice president and they all said we would be upset. we would not be happy, but democracy is on the line. look at you all. very pragmatic, very practical. so i would argue that first of all, speak -- skipping over the vice president, she is the vice president. she is there if the president can't be the president anymore. whatever, that is what a vice president is for.

there are all these thoughts about what a vice president does, but fundamentally that is what they are there for, so the president selected her because he believed in the event that he would not be able to be president, she would be a good president. so i don't know what people are talking about. at the end of the day, joe biden is at the top of the ticket. it is the biden-harris ticket and i believe that is what it will be in november. >> that is what she is insisting it is. i do think the conversation around her awakens a lot of feelings and preconceived notions and bigotry around women of color and i've got to read this quote from the wall street journal, which is talking about the vice president. this is from the editorial board, so an unnamed writer. various democrats are popping up in the press, noting that much of the party base would revolt if ms. harris was denied the nomination. the suggestion is the party base thinks the first woman of color on a national ticket has

a birthright to move up to the job as opposed to the party choosing the candidate more likely to win. do you hear the dog whistle there? the birthright, of a woman of color who believes she has a birthright? >> the audacity of the supporters of the vice president of the united states of america to believe she should be first in line to the presidency. the audacity. oh my goodness. these people. i hope people hear my sarcasm at home. alex, honestly this is a fundamental misunderstanding as my former boss bernie sanders would say of two things. first, the process, right? it is not the party leaders that pick the representatives, the people pick the representatives and so the process is not that the elected leadership, this small group should be picking who the democratic nominee is, first and foremost. people picked and they picked joe biden. people can have qualms about the primary process and say they didn't feel that it was open. we can't say that the primaries

weren't pad and ballots weren't cast. secondly there is a fundamental misunderstanding, i think, of base voters. of black voters. i was at essence this weekend and we talked to black women. they brought up the issues of health care, of abortion. they talked about the economy. the chief concern for black women in this country are economic concerns and they want a candidate who is going to speak to those concerns and they want the next president to do something about economic concerns and health concerns. for folks who are members of the democratic party and of pledged support to joe biden, i have not heard many black women voters say they are walking away from him, so i think, alex, that is why we have not seen more members of congress come out, because they have heard from some of the constituents. >> that is why biden is talking to the congressional black caucus. >> as he should. i do think they should ask for