it makes. it feels like if he makes it through this week, i think he'll be their nominee and very quickly there they will all have to get in line. >> you wrote about that on msnbc.com. i agree. if he gets through the next couple of days, the odds of him not being the nominee really, really shrink. >> appreciate your analysis, and thanks to all of you for getting up way too early on this wednesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. s wednesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now in 1949, the leaders of 12 countries, including president truman, including together in this very room and created the north atlantic treaty organization, the single greatest most effective defensive alliance in the history of the world. >> i didn't even know what nato was too much before but it didn't take me long to figure out, about two minutes. >> the american voters understand what would happen if there was no nato. another war in europe. american troops fighting and

dying. >> everybody has, they call it arthur spot, where water comes out. they don't have anything from me. >> it wasn't inevitable. >> it was inevitable in critical moments again and again we chose union over disunion. >> sir, chris kristie is not a fat pig. i said, no i will not protect from you russia. >> freedom over tierny. >> when people who love our country protested january 6 in russia they become hostages. >> hope over fear. >> let's look at the jefferson memorial, let's look at the washington monument, let's go and look at some of the beautiful scenes and you end up getting shot, mugged, raped. >> make no mistake. >> ukraine can and will stop putin. >> i had -- a very good relationship with putin. we talked about. it was the apple of his eye. >> this was a pivotal moment for the world and the transatlantic.

>> did you ever hear about hannibal hechter. >> that's terrible that trump is rambling. yes, owe so that president. >> that was president trump at his first. >> wow. >> wow, wow, wow. >> at his first campaign rally in nearly two weeks compared to president biden speaking to world leaders at the nato summit. it is a contrast. the biden campaign wants to push in hopes of putting the focus back on his opponent rather than his own mental acute. meanwhile on capitol hill, there are still serious concerns within the democratic caucus about the president's re-election chances, and now we're hearing publicly from a democratic senator who says biden's campaign would lead to republicans winning both chambers of congress. we'll talk about all of this. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is wednesday, july 10.

willie is back. joe is off. along with willie and me we have host of was way too early" jonathan lemire, msnbc contributor mike barnicle and former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst steve rattner. so willie, that was an incredible parallel yesterday side by side. trump very smooth, very smooth talking about chris christie being a fat pig, never really knowing what nato was, the j6 hostages, the people who defecated on our capitol are now in his mind hostages. he was smooth saying that as well, and he did not mangle his words at all when he talked about his close relationship with putin. it was good that we could clearly understand that. >> j6 hostages, also people who beat up police officers and went to jail and were convicted by a jury of our peers in the legal system. that is the way, the moment that the biden campaign has been waiting for.

donald trump has been effectively in hiding, strategically for almost the [ laughter ] two weeks now since the debate and let this play out with joe biden and with democrats and what to do about his future in this campaign. now he's back out there and the biden campaign says remember that guy. here's the contrast they have been looking for. all of this while congressional democrats now are largely falling in line behind biden despite reported panic behind the scenes. according to the "new york times," top democrats have settled on a strategy that some concede could be dangerous. do nothing at least for now. "the times" notes the consensus among many democrats is that biden himself is the problem, and their unwillingness to say so is reminiscent of the way republicans could mock him in private and support him in public. party officials said they are hoping for another public misstep by president biden to persuade reticent members of

congress to speak out or to convince president that he should leave the race on his own. democratic senators met yesterday for their first caucus luncheon since returning to the hill where they discussed the viability. president's campaign. speaking to reporters after that meeting, democrats remain tight-lipped about what was said inside the room and by whom. >> well, concerns are whether or not that was a one-off situation or if there's more to the issue. >> how confident are you that president biden will be the democratic nominee in november? >> i'm confident at this point, but i will tell you, it remains to be seen the way he campaigns and the effectiveness of campaigning whether he continues to be the flag bearer for our cause. >> senator, do you still support president biden? >> yes, i think it's really important that we focus on the fact that president biden has been a really excellent president. he had a bad debate. former president trump had a horrific presidency. >> you don't have any concerns about his ability to serve of

four more years? >> no. >> do you want him to be democratic nominee? >> i think if president biden feels that he's in the best position to know that he can take on and beat donald trump, then, yes, i certainly do, and that's what the president is going to do. >> we had a conversation that was constructive. >> is the conversation over? >> no. >> stand beg hind the president but not with exactly ringing endorsements. meanwhile, one democratic senator did step out publicly to talk about his doubts about president biden's chances to beat donald trump in november. a sourceful with yesterday's closed door meeting told sneerz senators michael bennett, jon tester and sherrod brown all voiced concerns about the president winning the election. senator tester later did not deny the report but referred nbc news to a statement in which the president's debate performance raised questions and senator

brown's spokesman declined comment and senator bennett went on cnn last night and stopped short of staying the president should drop out of race. >> well, it's true that i said that, and i did say that behind closed doors, and you guys and others asked whether i said it, and that is what i said, so i figured i should come here and say it publicly. >> why do you think he can't win in november? >> i just think this -- this race is on a trajectory that's very worrisome if you care about the future of this country. joe biden was nine points up at this time the last time he was running. hillary clinton was five points up. this is the first time in more than 20 years that a republican president has been up in this part of the campaign. donald trump is on track i think to win this election and maybe win it by a landslide and take with him the senate and the house, so for me this isn't a question about polling. it's not a question about politics. it's a moral question about the future of our country, and i

think it's critically important for us to come to grips with what we face if together we put this country on the path of electing donald trump again. >> joining us now nbc new capitol hill correspondent ally vitale. good to see you. senator bennett went on to say he believes joe biden is one of the best presidents in modern history. >> what senator bennett is doing that so many other senators are no is putting his name on publicly on things he's saying privately, to his colleagues and friends and to potentially reporters. i think that's also why this story has such a dissonance

between the public and private. i know there are some, and i've heard these complaints that the media, that reporters are making too much of this, and it's largely because there is still a large number of democrats behind the scenes who are greibing, who are panicked and saying it to their colleagues and actively weighing whether or not now is the time to come forward and saying publicly that they have concerns as senator bennett was saying or that they want joe biden to step down. right now the public numbers on that are only at nine on the house side. there are no senate democrats saying that joe biden can no longer be the nom naand needs to step down. bennett and senator patty murray are the only ones who have gone so far to say they have questions and to bennett's case the outright questioning of the ability to eleathernecks elect the president. the question is whether or not people who have private concerns are willing at this point to make them public. you bring up the you other two senators in that room yesterday

saying that they have concerns about biden's ability to win. both of those senators are in key senate seats that are needed. they are essential for democrats to have any shot of maintaining what they have in the senate, let alone even think about growing it. if those two people start stepping forward, then i think you have a really different dynamic here, but the senate is also a different beast than the house. i think on the senate side many of us are looking to the ways that senators will handle this moment in large part because joe biden was a member of their ranks for so many years as a senator. it's a body that he pays close attention to. it's a body that he respects, and those are the colleagues i think in my conversations who could have more of an impact on the president if they were to try to make a final push to try to get him to renounce himself as the standard bearer of this party, by think by and large yesterday what could have been an infliction point sort of just

ended with a collective sigh and a sense of resignation that it's sort of getting close to turn the page on this and you've got to come together and unite and support the nominee. >> the front page of "the new york times," the piece we just referred, to top democrats swallow fears and back biden, so for the most part the biden campaign and the white house has done its job of keeping democrats on board over the last almost two weeks now since the debate. some vigorous support and some less vigorous from democrats. you had chuck schumer on the hill yesterday answering every question about this i'm with joe, i'm with joe. they are publicly standing by joe biden, but it does feel tenuous. they are hoping that there is not another moment in public from president biden that may change the way they have to deal with this. >> yeah. there's no question that the sense is there's a difference of public versus private. there's a lot of apprehension about president biden.

and there was a sense that the white house wasn't doing nearly enough to tamp that down and even finally when he sat down for this interview with george stephanopoulos on friday that didn't ease too many nerves. this week has been different. the president has far more aggressive had public appearance after public appearance and public calls with the democratic mayors saying he's not going anywhere, a message he delivered earlier on the show this week as well. that's the strategy from the biden inner circles, say, if you want him out, put up or shut up. put your name to and it let's do this, and so far very few democrats have, and i think there is a sense this is a reluctance to challenge someone who has been a good president, a faithful party member for so long, also concerns about what the real alternative would be though it's not president biden though we're seeing the vice president's poll numbers pick up as of late and there is a sense from my reporting speaking to highly -- to top biden officials that if they can get through

this week, the odd of president biden remaining the nominee go up dramatically. there are a few infliction points that could still happen. one is you mentioned senate majority leader schumer. people believe if he were to change his mind, if a number of senators came to him and said we'll lose this house, this chamber if biden stays at the top of ticket, president biden will listen to that and schumer has shown no sign of doing that and nancy pelosi is another one who carries a lot of weight but she's not called for president biden to step aside. we'll talk about nato later but a chance for president biden to show, not just democrats, the those eyes watching around the world that he's up to the job and the news conference tomorrow which will be since the debate his first big moment of, unscripted moment where he has a chance to show americans he can still do the job, if that goes well and lawmakers come and go from washington this week without a rebellion, the biden team thinks he'll get through

it. >> it's interesting. you talk about, you know, what the alternative may or may not be, and that is an area where i think democrats are self-destructing. i'll get to that in just a moment, but here's one democrat who believes that joe biden should step aside. this is congresswoman sherrill of new jersey. >> i spent the week hearing from my constituents. there's strong concerns about prosecuting the case against donald trump. i heard people talking about the supreme court decisions, concerned about women's reproductive health and just advocating as sternly as possible that we have someone who can really take that case strongly and energetically to the voters. >> congresswoman sherrill there. you were at that meeting yesterday. you saw it. >> yeah. >> i'll go to this notion.

two things can be true at once. a lot of democrats are being trans parent about this, this notion that they are acting trumpian saying there's nothing to see her. the senator from new hampshire saying this was terrible. they tear president biden down and don't offer an alternative and right now the alternative is donald trump, so if they have questions about joe biden's ability to run on this campaign and a lot of them do, and the questions after the debate, hello, are clear, they are very clear and people have made them. what happened? was it a one-off? was it episodic? everyone is asking that question. no one is hiding and pretending nothing happened. we all saw it. kind of hard to avoid. having said that he also has a record that is historic.

he also has a lot of things to say about why he should perhaps remain on this campaign, and he also is raising a lot of questions, but the opponent right now is donald trump. the opponent right now is arguably certifiable in terms of the things he says on stage. he may say them smoothly and get a laugh out of them, bull they are crazy or cruel or anti-democratic or downright criminal, okay, the j6 hostages, oh, right he's a convicted fellon. i think democrats need to stay focused on who the opponent is, what the questions are about biden but don't forgot his accomplishments. you know, we can do several things as once but i wouldn't cruzify the one candidate that you have right now unless somebody has an incredible alternative that is just a shoo-in that would fit perfectly, that it works with the process and it represents what the american people wanted,

then go for it, but i'm not seeing it, and i'm seeing a president who is extremely accomplished who is running for re-election who had a terrible night and is raising some questions against the opponent that i just described. you were at the meeting yesterday. what's your reporting out of the meeting? is anybody stepping up and sort of seeing the parallel here? these two guys running against each other. >> a lot of them see the parallel and a lot of them see exactly what you're talking about. we focus on the penal who are shaky or who might come out or who have come out, like congresswoman sherrill and rightly so because many are looking to see if this is an infliction point, but even for the people who have been critical, and someone that i think about is congressman jerry nadler who are reported to us privately and then outside this message this is what he said.

>> the president said the president is running and to me that's dispositive and we have to support him. >> do you have concerns of him being on the top of the ticket? >> there there are concerns or not that's beside the point. he's going to be our nominee and we have to support him >> has he done enough to ease your concerns over the last few days? >> he's made very clear he's running, and that is -- that's dispositive for me. we must get behind him and must support him. donald trump's election would be extremely destructive to american democracy. >> i feel like that conversation actually encapsulates so much of the conversation that i've had with democrats broadly on the hill is that they are engaging with the premise of our questions about the debate, about what it means going forward. that's very untrumpian if we're trying to draw some kind of parallel that i personally don't see that exists here, as someone

who has reported on democrats and on republicans at tense moments where people aren't exactly excited it a talk it a reporters about it. republicans will hipically not engage with the prime minister and say they didn't see the tweet, didn't see the comment. that's not what democrats are doing here. they are engaging in a real painful process both amongst themselves ant in the media about what to do with the person who is going to lead their party at a critical juncture for this country. no one is not aware of the stakes here, and i think the thing i've heard from democrats is the concern that if this continues to drag out, and i'm interested in seeing if once we come to the end of the week we don't see some sort of end to this hemming and hawing pros ed, but we're far from there yet. it's only wednesday. a lot can happen, but at the same time i do think the longer this drags on, the concern that i've heard from democrats who however reluctantly are in the president's corner they end up wunkd their nominee who is their

nominee at a point they need to be building up up and making him stronger, not as we turn our attention to the republicans and the contrast the convention will bridge. i think it will be start and through the summer they don't want to be talking about alternatives. they want to focus on the road ahead and make sure that their standard bear ker do it, too >> congressman nadler, there it is in a nutshell. is he up to a sigh and long pause, he's going to be the nom northeast. kind of where democrats are. >> ally vitale covering capitol hill for us so much. mike barnicle, what's your sense inside the biden campaign? we're almost two weeks now since the debate. they do seem to have gotten, democrats, to say things like that in public which is i may not be thrilled about the prospect but i believe that joe biden is still our nominee. i still believe he can beat donald trump as he did in 2020. i am looking at these battleground polls just this week that show it's still a margin of error race in some states, though there have been some gains by donald trump.

they still believe, at least they say so publicly, that joe biden is the guy who is going to beat donald trump. >> well, if you're in the biden campaign, you can sort of walk yourself back from the ledge a little after watching donald trump at the top of this hour, and that would give you hope. now, for several weeks trump has been fairly disciplined and trump for the first time in his life has a campaign run by true professionals who pose a lethal threat to the biden candidacy. susie wiles and chris slasovita, they are very, very good, in so far presented a disciplined donald trump to the nation. that did a completely unhinged and unpolice dind donald trump that we saw, chris christ yes is a fat pag and the j6 hostages. that's what you want if you're the biden campaign. that's a sense of optimism that you would have this morning watching that take place.

>> by the way, this big strategy over the last two weeks has been to hide donald trump, go play golf for two weeks. >> which he was. >> and then they bring him back out. >> steve rattner. let talk about democrats on capitol hill. we've been talking about the voters and the pog. let's talk about the donor class in the democratic party which does have a lot of say about how how this all turns out. what's the overwhelming sentiment right now about the men and women, democrats for most of their lives, who have supported joe biden over the last several years? where are they right now after that debate performance? >> look, willie, there's nothing that the donor class that i'm in touch with than the large donors want more than to beat donald trump. that is the rallying cry. that's the existential question. we just want to win. the debate performance did not go well, shall we say, and it's really changed the dynamic among the big donor class, and i think there's anecdotal evidence. there's obviously people i

talked, to a few numbers floating around, and it feels like the big donors are to a considerable extent going to get chair checkbooks closed, at least until they get convinced that the president is up to the job. that may take the convention and a great convention speech and a great convention. it may take the next debate on september 10 i think it is, but that's a long way away and the campaign has to raise money to get there. you know, money is the air supply for any campaign real, and if the air supply gets cut off you have problems, and so the donor class is real quite unhappy, and i have to also just add quite frankly that the president's comments, i think it was on this show on monday when he talked about that millionaires and the billion ards i won't be pushed around by them didn't go so well among the donor class. nothing thinks there would be nothing better than campaign finance reform and would like to get out of writing the checks but right now the system is what

is and the money has to be raised and the donor class is important to an election. can i say something about the previous part of the conversation? >> yeah. >> i've been talking a lot to electeds up on the hill and i would underscore from direct conversations what ally and jonathan were saying, a lot of folks are saying one thing in public or nothing in public and something else in private, and there's nothing that's happened to my knowledge in the past week that has fundamentally shifted the attitude of the senators and congressmen about the state of the campaign and about the president's political standing. they think -- they are terrified that he cannot win. they would -- i would venture to say that had a majority of the senate caucus, for example, if you took a vote, would vote for a change but there are no votes. the problem with this is it's a revolution without a leader. that unless and until schumer, hakeem jeffries, pelosi, maybe obama weigh in on this thing, the president is going -- has

been successfully -- successful at keeping it in his corner, and that's likely to be what happens unless something else dramatic happens, but i don't want to suggest -- i don't have any sense that there's been a fundamental shift in mood on the hill, only more of a sense of inevitability, and therefore you want to navigate your way through it if you're a senate or congressman without blowing yourself up, but i think the sentiment that there's going to be a change in direction here from the president to something else is -- is not high. >> so just back to the donors for just a moment. if they are waiting to see some kind of a change, joe biden is suddenly not going to become 51. he'll be 81 for the rest of this campaign, so if they don't see what they want to see, talking about the donors again, what comes next? is there there some kind of a plan? are they trying to rally other candidate? what do they do? >> if you want to talk about cap little as a bit of an amovous thing. the donor class doesn't have

leader. donors do what they want to do. what you'll see did, first of all, if the president does well, let's say, in the next debate, then they will come back with perhaps some of enthusiasm, even if he doesn't do great. the donors want to win. they want to beat trump. they don't have a plan. i think you'll see a bunch of them coming back once it becomes clear that, a," joe biden will be the nominee and, "b" that he's in the game, so to speak, but if it's not a reagan-like performance, at least it will clear the bar, and they can support him. >> steve, stay here. we'll get to your charts after the break. donors like everyone else in this conversation don't appear to have a great backup plan. they know they have concerns about joe biden. >> yes. >> they are just not sure what to do about it. >> yeah. i think that's what i was trying to say. >> yeah. >> right now this is what we, have and there's a lot to say about it. we have a packed show ahead. former house speaker nancy pelosi will join us after democrats huddled behind closed

doors yesterday to discuss president biden's candidacy. plus, michigan governor gretchen whitmer will be our guest. she says she has a complete confidence in joe biden. also ahead. 37d forcefully defends nato as he kicks off a summit marking 75 years of the alliance. we'll show you what he has to say and bring in retired general james savritas when we return. s savritas when we return. disease symptoms develop, worsen or if you had a vaccine or plan to. serious allergic reactions can occur. ask your doctor about taltz. the future is not just going to happen. you have to make it.

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welcome back to "morning joe." it's 28 past the hour. a beautiful shot of the white house. as we mentioned at the top. president biden addressed allies at the start of the 75th nato summit being held in washington, d.c. here's more of what the president had to say yesterday. >> today nato is more powerful than ever. 32 nations strong. for years finland and sweden were among our closest partners. now they have chosen to officially join nato, and because of the power and meaning of article v guarantee that's the reason. the most important aspect of the alliance in 1949, and it's still the most important aspect. my friends, it's good that we're stronger than ever because this moment in history calls for our

collective strength. autocrats trying to overturn global order which has by and large been kept for 80 years and counting. terrorist groups continue to plot evil schemes, to cause mayhem and chaos and suffering. in europe putin's war of aggression against ukraine continues, and putin wants nothing less, nothing less, than ukraine's total subjugation to end ukraine's democracy, to destroy ukraine's culture and to wipe ukraine off the map. we know putin won't stop at ukraine, but make no mistake. ukraine can and will stop putin. today i'm announcing an historic donation of defensive equipment to ukraine. the united states, japan and

italy will provide ukraine with equipment for five strategic air defense systems and in the coming months united states and our partners intend to provide ukraine with dozens of additional air tactical air systems. >> president biden speaking yesterday. joining us now retired four-stash admiral james stavritis. what did you make of what you are saw yesterday of this -- this alliance that has been so critical over all these last 50 years being stronger -- 75 years, excuse me, being stronger than ever today? >> yeah. it is stronger than ever, and our motto when i was the commander was stronger together. both those things are so true

and just move beyond the words let's do the snumgss numbers for a minute. this is an alliance anchored by the united states with our $800 billion defense budget but here's the punch line, willie. the rest of nato's budget is $400 billion collectives, the second largest in the world. it's bigger than china's budget. it's four times the size of russia's budget so you put it all together. name ore has ten times the military budget, for example, of russia. number two. three million young men and women underarms, almost all volunteers, 800 ocean-going warships, 15,000 combat aircraft. it's a remarkably powerful military alliance, and then secondly if you go to the gross domestic product, ask steve rattner about it, you add up the united states, 25% of the world.

the rest of nato probably 20%, 20% of the world, close to 50% of the world's gross domestic product represented by the leaders here you're showing next to me right now, and third and finally, this really is the strength of it and the strength of the speech that president biden gave, at the beating heart of this alliance is article v, a guarantee that if one nation is attacked, all will respond. that is -- that article v has been evoked exactly once in the history of nation. not during the cold war against the soviet union. it was evoked on 9/11 when we were attacked. europeans came with us. they fought and they died in afghanistan after we were attacked. as the commander of that mission, as the nato commander i signed hundreds of young leaders to european families where their

families sacrificed. bottom line, that is venerable, powerful and capable alliance that faces a real challenge and threat today, but overall we're very lucky to be the leader of this alliance. >> admiral on monday the russians -- a missile attack on a children's hospital in ukraine. >> yeah. >> the ukrainians feel that it was targeted. they think they can prove that it was targeted so my question to you is in terms of ukraine's ability to counterattack with their weapons systems into russia, why is the chokehold put on ukraine so much about attacking within russia? >> i think the conventional answer to the question, mike, is because we don't want to escalate with a nuclear power like russia. personally i disagree with that. i think it is time to unshackle the ukrainians, provide them with longer range missile systems, and i guarantee you the ukrainians would not be striking

russian children's hospitals. they would be appropriately go after after military targets and the bases from which attacks like there are launched. the ukrainians would responsibly use the systems. we need to provide more of them and more importantly we need to allow them to extend the reach of military targets far deeper into russia. i think you're on point. final thought. this will come to a head with the addition of the f-16 fighters which dozens of them will be joining the ukrainians. ukrainian pilots trained by nato. that's a weapons system, that fighter, the f-16. the fighting falcon or the viper as it's called colloquially can do that kind of air-to-ground mission at deep range. we're going to have to grapple with what restriction, if any, we want to put on those.

there's no reason to be afraid of our shadow with vladimir putin. >> admiral, world leaders and diplomats alike have gathered here in washington for the nato summit, and there's a trio of moods sort of in the air here. one is certainly celebratory, another is alliance. another is resolved in terms of helping ukraine though there are some differences in terms of how to do that, but there's a real uncertainty and anxiety hovering over this summit in part because of the european elections that we're seeing and also november's u.s. election and the fears that donald trump could be president again. i know you're still so plugged into this world. what's the latest you're hearing, just tell for us, please, the level of anxiety from these leaders as to what would happen if trump comes in and what it could do to the future of this alliance? >> there's deep concerning and i get that at every level from very senior political actors to

very senior military, former and current, convey to me concern, and it's legitimate. it's based on the things former president trump has said. you showed clips of it. one in particular sticks in the european's mind. it's he may decide to let do whatever the hell it wants, to i'm quoting here. those are very chilling comments to our european check. they were -- by the way they gave a collective sigh of relief last night after a very strong speech by the president. i am told he is going to be in a variety of meetings today, and i think he'll represent our nation very well in every respect, and it will help allay some of those concerns, but it won't a lot the concern about a return of an video who has been so deeply skeptical and verbally critical of the alliance.

having said all of that. the silver lining may be will be that the europeans will spend more on their own defense which they need to do, and if so there is every opportunity that this alliance will emerge even stronger, but, yes, the shadow of a trump presidency which is one that is -- that has been clearly stated to be potentially anti-nato is a real concern. >> retired admiral james stavridis. coming up, concerns about president biden's fitness for office. dr. zeke emmanuel will join us with his take. plus the data doesn't lie. job growth under president biden continues to outpace that under

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capitol hill. it's 6:43 on a wednesday morning on capitol hill yesterday. federal reserve chairman jerome powell hinted an interest rate cut could be coming soon. powell telling lawmakers on the senate banking committee that holding interest rates too high for too long to jeopardize economic growth. he did not specify when exactly that cut might come. let's bring back in steve rattner. we're taking a look at the economic records of president biden versus that of donald trump. let's start with job growth. what are you looking at? >> well, look, this election is obviously going to be fought on the economy like many elections, and donald trump has argued that president biden has delivered the worst economy in history. so let's look at a few metrix that might suggest the facts are actually something different. you mentioned job growth. we can start with job growth. this is job growth across presidents going back to reagan but let's focus on trump versus biden andets be fair and strip out the effects of covid which

obviously hurt donald trump and ultimately helped joe biden during rhett discovery so that's the darker bars. you can see even stripping out covid donald trump created an average of 182,000 jobs month, joe biden created an average of 268,000 jobs a month, and that is not only more than donald trump, that is more than any president going back to somewhere before reagan. we go back to reagan here so even clinton, even reagan. joe biden created x covid more jobs. the president has been talking a lot about manufacturing jobs. let's talk about the record on manufacturing jobs. it is true that manufacturing jobs began to come back under trump and not surprisingly they went off a cliff but joe biden has brought them back. we have more manufacturing jobs than we had in 2008. obviously we would like to have some more, but manufacturing is a very tough sector for us, and

this is a pretty impressive performance. >> job growth bide enunder joe biden objectively. let's move over next to your next chart which is the growth of gdp and wages and the money people are making. how do the two stack up? >> gdp is a measure of a good economy. the faster you group, the better off you'll be. again, let's be fair and let's strip out covid from these results and take a look at what we see. under trump, gdp growth averaged 2.6% annual rate during his presidency, not including covid as i said. joe biden averaged 3.6 boston during his presidency. 1% on an economy that's well over $20 trillion is an enormous difference in the terms of amount of economic activity -- extra economic activity that you're creating, and so this one isn't even close. look, we all have to acknowledge that inflation has been tough. there's no doubt that we went

from a very benign inflation environment to a considerably higher inflationary environment. some of that was driven by supply problems. when you had supply chain problems, shortages, prices tended to go up. a lot of it was driven by the federal reserve and not addressing that quickly enough with interest rates and, yes, some of that is on the biden administration with the american rescue plan which most people in retrospect thought was too much, but look what's been happening in the last year that people don't realize this. first of all, inflation has come way down and very close as jerome powell suggested in his testimony yesterday it's getting very close to where the fed could cut interest rates as soon as september, and secondly for more than a year wage growth has been higher than inflation. the black line higher than the green line, and so we are making up ground, and it is moving in the right direction. >> one of the arguments we've heard, steve, and we heard again last night from donald trump is that effectively if it weren't

for covid i would have had the greatest economy in the history of america, and in fact he said last night until covid hit i had the strongest and best economy ever. the data you just put up there accounts for that. you said let's be fair and consider covid. is there any accuracy to what donald trump says there? >> no. i think -- i think it is right here. it's right here. he not only didn't have the greatest economy ever. he didn't even have the greatest economy of the last two presidents. 2.6% for donald trump, 3.6% for joe biden will i'll tell you is a completely honest and fair removal of covid from the statistics. >> all right. third chart, steve, is about debt. we hear from conservatives about concerns over the debt. those concerns seemed to have disappeared for four years while donald trump was president. what do you see in the chart there? >> more in donald trump said we were getting ready to pay the debt and moving in the right direction on the deficit and all this kind of stuff.

again, it's not true. forget about covid for a second. again, donald trump comes in and the deficit is here at about $3750 billion and in his first three years he increased the deficit because of his massive cut which tis important to say went mostly to the wealthy. covid did blow the doors off of it, no question about it but he was on a traektgy for that to keep going. joe biden had to do the same thing, he's drought it down a bit and needs to go down further. this is one of our great challenge. take a look at the records all together. stripping out of covid being fair to both of these guys, donald trump added $2.8 trillion to the national debt through deficit spending, joe biden has added less than half of that, $2.2 trillion to the national debt, and so it's in fact joe biden who has the far better record on budgetary matters than donald trump even though he goes out on the campaign trail and claims the opposite.

>> steve, do you have any idea of why the biden campaign, not the biden administration, the biden campaign is not showing the american public charts like these and talking about the differences between four years ago and today? >> mike, i leave a lot that have to the political experts, but, you know, they did go try this bide okay mix things and it didn't work for whatever seen of reason. i think the inflation numbers i showed you over on the other chart play a significant role. people simply believe that they are worse off than they were three and a half years ago, and, you know, things like gdp growth and budget deficits are a little bit abstract when you go to the grocery store and you're finding that food prices are in fact up 20% over the last four years, so they have really kind of given up on the idea that they can go out and sell the economy today. what they are selling now is his

ability to continue the progress into the next term. >> steve rattner bringing cold hard data to these conversations about the economy. steve, thanks so much. as always we appreciate it. still ahead, co-chair of the biden/harris campaign, michigan governor gretchen whitner will join the conversation, and speaker emerita nancy pelosi and also ahead actor michael douglas will be here to discuss his new film "america is burning." a stacked lineup just ahead on "morning joe." a stacked lineup n "morning joe."

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welcome back. as questions continue to swirl around president biden's neurological health stemming from that debate performance two weeks ago. one doctor is saying age is not the issue. former obama white house adviser for health policy, vice provost for health initiatives at the university of pennsylvania dr. zeke emanuel has a new article for of "the atlantic q."there are exceptionally sharp octogenarians. biden isn't one. he wrote that the president biden's problems stemmed from an exhausting travel schedule and a cold. such explanations do not inspire confidence. yes, it's common for elderly

people to bounce back more slowly from stressors, but even if jet lag and illness exacerbated normal cognitive limitations, said limitations remain, ready to surface again, and who knows when the next life and death decision will be need to be wait. crises don't wait patiently for presidents to be fully prepared. someone whose cognitive competence sis can be compromised as badly as biden's were by travel and a routine cold may be able to live a normal life but would be hard pressed to the rigors of negotiating with congress or foreign leader much less making multiple rapid decisions when some future domestic or global disaster emerges, and i should point out that president biden is right now at the nato summit hosting it, and zeke joins us now along with nbc news medical contributor dr. ben gupta. zeke, wouldn't we have seen

more, for what you were saying, more issues, wouldn't they have come out in the past? some people are saying that -- >> well -- >> -- that there's been some hiding going on. >> yeah. i think that's been suggested. joe biden's had fewer spontaneous interactions than other presidents, much fewer. there's -- you know, you talk to people who have been around the president, and for several months if not for a year there has been a noticeable shift from the mental agility, the acute, good give and take and perceptive questions to after the summer of 2023 where that's declined, and we should say this is normal aging, and there's -- it doesn't have to be any disease here. this is what happens as people

age and their fluid intelligence, their verbal fluency declines and ability to problem solve. >> the let's talk about normal aging for joe biden, zeke, and ben, i'll get to you. stand bit. over the past six months he attended the g-7 summit in italy. he traveled to normandy to mark the 80th anniversary of d-day and had a rousing speech there, delivered the commencement address at morehouse college, and met with prime minister benjamin netanyahu in develop reef and traveled for a war cabinet meeting on october 7. visited to baltimore to survey the damage at the collapsed francis scott key bridge. he visited palestine, and he went to the border to push for a bipartisan border deal which the republicans turned down, actually trump did. they had a deal that they never would have had an opportunity to get but he put it out there which was politically smart of

him. just yesterday he hosted nato. of course, we know he's taking the press conference tomorrow. he's made stops in 21 states for both presidential duties and campaign events, so, i mean, this is aging? >> those -- those -- those are the rigors of a normal presidency in the 21st century. let's be clear, and let's be clear. joe biden's been a terrific president. can you go down the list. whether the american rescue plan, the infrastructure plan, the -- the infrastructure bill, the chips act, trying to relieve students of debt and managing two wars i think admirably. those are the rigors. and many of those presentations and speeches and events have been with a teleprompter, and we have seen him at the state of the union do great. >> right. >> but zeke, i want to put this in context. those are the things joe biden is doing while he's aging, and

so, too, donald trump is age, is he not? look at his age. >> as -- >> let me ask you. what do you think donald trump's sort of -- would you consider him to be mentally fit to be.? can i have your opinion on his brain? >> well, i'm not judging the brains, but i do trump has many of the problems of aging. he has an inability to concentrate. he meanders when he talks. he doesn't problem solve. he goes back to the same things over and over again, and his problem is he lies over and over blatantly and that's even worse. this is a critical election, the most critical election in american history since the civil war, and i think if you ask me now, i'm voting for joe biden. there's no question. the policies of donald trump are terrible, but this is also not

the best options that the american public has. we're a country of 330 million people, and we have a lot of really talented people in the country. >> dr. ben gupta, what's your take on what has become really the story, the only stow of the day it seems and that is joe biden's mental acute? what do you make of the debate, and what do you make of his recovery from it? >> well, you know, mika, you laid it vut very nicely. from the a cardio vascular standpoint and from a mental acute, take last night you mentioned with the nato summit, there's going to be days that are better. there are days that are not as good. cardio vass carley he's in good shape. i think he's actually quite high functioning as an octogenarian

and keeping up that schedule. what i see clinically i think joe biden is quite robust relative to what we see normal aging at 81. more broadly what i would say is exactly to your point. we don't talk enough about his opponent. there are signs of forgotfulness and saw that last night he gave in flamp the exact same things we're scrutinizing the president about. this has now become a bad phrase and i learn about that. less than 65% of individuals seek out support. there's hypothyroidism, vitamin deficiency.

maybe they have had a recent concussion. it's important that we talk about this in a ways that's not significant tiegs as a country, as a broader media because people can get help for their brain and we need to be normalizing brain health just like we talk about cardio vascular health, and i worry that the impact that this dialog is having across the country on something that's critically important to people's aging. >> so dr. zeke emanuel, thank you very much and vin gupta would i love to have you back to focus on moments of concern to donald trump just to bring balance. breaking news. both candidates are old, and i appreciate both of your insights very much. thank you, doctors. willie? >> joining our conversation, michigan government democrat gretchen whitner the author of the new book "true gretch,". good to have you in new york.

welcome. >> thank you. >> i want to get to our reaction. we had senator michael bennett of colorado coming out publicly last night and saying he doesn't think joe biden can win this election. he says he thinks joe biden has been a great presidents. he thinks he's been one of the best presidents in modern american history and doesn't think he's the guy to do it. do you believe that joe biden can defeat donald trump in november? >> i do, and i'm a co-chair of the campaign. i can tell you the debate was a lousy performance. there's unanimity on that one, but fact of the matter is the president is i think showing that he is up to this moment, up to the job, up to the rigors. speaking with nato. he's touring the country. he'll be in michigan this week. he have's in it to win it, and i have been a longtime supporter of this president and vice president and that's not clanked. >> your state may well decide this presidential election. it's one of two or three that will. what are you hearing from voters in the two weeks since the

debate? obviously they are concerned, but do you see them hoping for an alternative at this point? >> well, let's be clear. this is not fantasy football. we're not clearing the state and everyone is picking who they think could be, you know, potential candidates. we have a choice between joe biden and donald trump, and any vote short of an affirmative vote for joe biden is a vote for donald trump and we need to be very clear about this. this is a high stakes election. as i think about people in mish mix i think what is the person in the grocery store thinking about? guess what, they are north thinking about the debate. they are thinking about how do they make sure that their children are set up for success? how do they ensure when i drop my child off at school that they won't be a victim of a mass shooting? how do we make sure that they have a clean environment and air to breathe and climate change? there are a lot of different pieces, affordable housing that this president has receipts on that the other guy never did a damn thing about so that's why we have to stay focused in

what's really going on in american's lives? that's how we've always won in michigan. we talked about showing up and meeting people where they are asked and fixing the fundamental so that everyone has a real shot at success. >> your name always comes up when they say what does joe biden do next? your name always comes up. if he does step aside, a big if, is it a job you'd be interested in? >> i'm not going down that road with you, willie. appreciate the question but the field is set. joe biden is the only person who is determining whether or not he stays in this race. he's made his decision. he's communicate that had decision and it's time to get going. we've got a high stakes election and all this continued talk and fretting and hang-wringing that people are doing only sets us up for a disadvantage going into this important election against donald trump. you said michigan is going to play a big role in this.

it's going to be a close elenchlgts -- election. don't celebrate if we're up a few points or don't be down if we're down a few points. >> you mentioned people at the gags station and shopping. governors are far more in touch with their constituencies than is the president of the united states obviously. the president of the united states, unfortunately, is -- has had whatever is going on with him diagnosed on tv by pundits. not the two doctors we just, by pundits every single night. what impact do you think that's had on average people who watch tv don't think about the elections a lot and watch tv and see people talking about, geez, is president biden senile, is he losing it and stuff like to? what impact has it had in michigan? >> i don't think it's had a huge impact yet, mike. to be honest, people are good hard-working people. they expect their government to be as good if not better than

they are and work as hard if not harder than they dorm. they are not able to consule all the information that we're able torque right, because they are just trying to get through the day. get the food on the table. get to work on time and make sure their kids have what they need for camp right now or school in the fall and that's the daily concern that the average person has so this kind of inside conversation that we're having. i'm not dismissing it. it's important, and i think there are legitimate questions that people have raised, and i think the president is proving he's up to this moment but average person wants to know that this onshoring of manufacturing jobs is going to continue because it's meant good paying jobs for michiganders. they want to know that there is someone in the white house that actually does something on infrastructure and rebuilds the roads. that's what we're doing in michigan. that's what the average person is thinking about, and that's why we have to make the case to them. when this president delivers insulin, you know, at a much cheaper price, that's more money

in your pocket to be able to deal with inflation and the high cost of it. one person can't control global inflation. but we can have someone that cares, puts more money in your pockets and make sure we get good paying jobs and that's what joe biden has done. mika? >> governor, i want to ask you about your book t.actually applies very much to the situation that the campaign is getting to today, and i'll get to that. i love it. reading it as a woman in politics, running for office as a woman, the focus on your physical appearance, all the different situations that you've been in including threatening ones on trump focusing on you, and i want to ask you about something that you share in the book and you've talked about in your state that's deeply personal but it really applies to some of the challenges that women are facing today in the age of trump. women who now don't have the freedom that we had for 50

years, the right to abortion health care, freedoms that our daughters don't have anymore because of former president donald trump. here is you on december 11, 2013 speaking on the senate floor about being assaulted. take a look. >> so i'm about to tell you something i've not shared with many people in my life, but over 20 years i was a victim of rape and thank god it didn't result in a pregnancy because i can't imagine going through what i went through and then having to consider what to do about an unwanted pregnancy from an attacker, and as a here with two girls the thought that they would ever go through something like i did keeps me up at night. >> so you talk a lot more about

this in the book. can you tell us about why you felt it was really important to talk about this experience and what it means today and if you could talk about the moment this country is in when it comes to abortion health care and the presidential campaign. >> it was really hard. giving that speech is not something that i had planned to do, but the republicans had decided to the to let a single person testify about this bill that would have required everyone to pre-purchase coverage for abortion care, you know, pre-plan for the unplanned event which is ridiculous and i decided to share my story. i talk about it in the book because some fights are worth having. some fights are worth having because you know you can win them. that happened ten years ago. i was incredibly demoralized after it. i lost the vote, but by the next morning i'd heard from so many

who had reached out to share that they, too, had lived through something similar to me and they were thanking me for telling my story and doing the best that i could. ten years later as governor i was in a position to sign the repeal of that bill. it took ten years. it was a long hard fight, but we won it, and so that's what this book is really all about, sharing some lessons i've learned in my life, giving people a little inspiration or maybe get a laugh at my expense or maybe it's just some light reading in what is another heavy time but abortion rights are very much on this ballot in november. abortion rights are at risk. we know that one in three women in this country live in a state where they don't have basic fundamental ability to make their own decisions about their body or access the health care that they need, so the next president will make more appointees to the supreme court, will decide whether or not to sign additional legislation to take away or make it harder to exercise the rights that we should be able to expect as american women.

>> you also write the harrowing account -- about the harrowing account with your family when you were attack. people tried kidnap you. i'll read from it. it's just incredible, and it's important to remember that this actually happened. a crowd of people armed with semiautomatic weapons showed up at our home. our security detail was there, too, but they tend to stay out of sight so when we first started hearing yelling, chanting and music blaring outside just my husband and i just looked at each and we were like what the lell? we peeked out a window and saw a couple dozen people at the gate and quickly closed the blinds again. we wanted to see what was happening but didn't want to be seen. the only window we could do that was a guest bathroom at the front of the house so mark, the girls and i crowded into the bathroom with our dog. we peered out the window. we could see people with ar-15, american flags and maga signs,

and there was a huge trump float that had been appearing at rallies all over michigan. can you talk about that time in your life, not just for yourself, but for your family? >> yeah. well, you know, the -- i think we all saw what happened on january 6 with our own two eyes, right? we saw it happen a lot earlier in michigan. there was a gridlock demonstration. there's a picture in the book that i took from my office of someone saying half whit which is one of the slights that president trump sent my way is the reason why we need the second amendment. that picture was in the book. i took with my own camera where there were protesters with the gun. my girls came out trying to figure out what on earth was going on because we were all staying home to stay safe in the middle of covid and yet all of these threats continued. each time that the former president came into or mentioned even the state of michigan, we would see a measurable increase in the threats that i was receiving. i think it's important to share

this -- these stories because every one of us has dealt with a bully at one point or another. every one of us makes a decision every day how we show up, who we engage with and talk with and in the book i share. at some point i would even like to sit down with some. men that were a part of the plot to kidnap and kill me because i want to understand. people think that's really strange, like why would you want to do that, but, you know, i feel like the only way we can understand one another is if we're talking to each other. it's part of my governing philosophy. it's a part of how i've operated as a legislator and now as a governor. we've got to always seek to find common ground. it's really hard in these times, especially with the violent rhetoric that's become more normal but people of goodwill on all side of the aisle have to recognize that and hopefully lead us back towards that moment, and i think that's what i'm trying to accomplish in the book. >> just to close, i'm curious if you could finish the sentence for me. a second trump term would mean

what? y. >> we've failed as a country. a second trump term would mean that, that we'll see rights eviscerated, the institutions that have sustained this democracy undermined. we'll see abuse of power like we've never seen before, especially with the newest supreme court ruling, and so i think that -- i think about my daughters the way i know that you think about yours. this is a high stakes moment, and their generation is important to this moment but is also counting on all of us in this moment. >> governor, we've had the same conversation with your democratic colleague in pennsylvania which is you govern a state that is a swing state, a crucial state. you won the first time you ran for governor by six points. you wouldn't last time by almost 11 points, very comfortably, so what lessons have you learned about governing a state with such diverse points of view and views of the world and winning the way you've won? what lessons can you pass on to the biden campaign, for example about, what you need to do in a

state like michigan? >> well, michigan is the most diverse of all the swing states. it is a great part of our legacy. people came from around the world for a job in the autoindustry, and that's why we've got this rich diversity. it's a wonderful thing. it also means that you have a got to be showing up and talking to people and listening. one of the things that, you know, i do regularly is i engage with people all across the state. when i ran for office i went into all 83 counties. during the reproductive freedom fight we sat and had roundtables all across the state. even fix the damn road sat with farmers in a more conservative part of the state. we've got to stay focused on what we can do to help people. listening is a superpower i talk about that president biden has. he cares about people. he's a human being who has dedicated his life to serve vinagre others and that's the most important thing, you know. it's easy to get all the voices and people and stats in your head and lose sight of that, but at the end of the day that's

what it's all about, and i think that's a great strength that he has because it's genuine with him, unlike the other guy. >> finally governor, how are you grappling with fact that yes michigan is the national champion but you're a michigan state graduate? mixed emotions? >> not all all. i'm the mother of two wolverines into that university to claim a little bit and we all came together around the lions. >> lions looking really good. bright future. >> everything is getting better. detroit, first population growth in 70 years. a lot of great stuff going on in the state of michigan. >> it's happening. the book is "true gretch," what i've learned about life, leadership and being a democratic governor in michigan." thanks for coming in. >> thank you. nancy pelosi joins us to talk about all the questions been the party but first the

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takes place in washington. this comes following last week's landslide victory for a labor party that resulted in a complete government take yore after nearly a decade of conservative control and joining joining us now from the nato site in washington is britain's foreign secretary david lammy. thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. a lot going on across the pond. a new government and, of course, nato summit right now. you're set to meet with the secretary of state, and this morning you'll also be attending the bit laterally agreement with the new prime minister today. what are the goals of the nato summit first? >> well, the united states and the uk share a historic special relationship. we are the corner of the nato alliance, and my party, the labor party is responsible for

setting up the nato alliance, the strongest military alliance that the world has seen in modern times. we look forward meeting joe biden, conscious, of course, of war in europe, reaffirming our support for zelenskyy and make sure we encourage nations that aren't committed to spend on defense and we come into this summit having made a commitment to get to 2.5% of gdp. we have to stand with ukraine and i look forward to working with tony blinken and the new prime minister looks forward to meeting with joe biden over the coming months. >> mr. secretary, i want to ask you about the presidential election here in the u.s. in a 2018 ot-ed you wrote about then president trump are. you committed to be one of the tens of thousands on the streets

protesting against our government's capitulation to this tyrant in a tubee, and you said trump is not only a woman-hating, neo-nazi sympathizing sociopath. he is also a profound threat to the international order that has been the foundation of western progress for so long. if president trump is re-elected how will your nation deal with what you follow a neo-nazi sympathizer? >> look, the relationship between the uk and u.s. is described as a special relationship for a reason. the global community needs us to be firm, whoever is in them ten. whomever is in the white house through a whole roster of presidents over the 20th and 21st century. we work closely together.

you saw that over the red sea just a few months ago. you saw that working together with drones falling over israel and jordan heading from iran just a few months ago, so that's the importance of the relationship. look, we've just come out of a mavis democratic exercise in the uk. we wouldn't think kindly -- i certainly wouldn't think kindly to americans commenting on our election, and the truth is they wouldn't do that because they will work with whomever the democratic process throws us, and, you know, i feel the same. i'm not going to get drawn on the rich democratic issues here in the u.s., but i would say this. let us make a distinction between democratic countries having hard and fast debate and the authoritarian states that we see around the world, an axis

that is hugely worrying. putin meeting with north korea, working with iran. let us act against us that and stand firmly together. that is what the nato alliance is about. >> so mr. secretary, one of the top topics of conversation here at the nato summit, of course, sue crane. we saw that just a couple of days ago, that horrific strike on a children's hospital there with casualties. we've heard from president biden committing more support yesterday. talk to us about where the efforts stand as we do barrel into an election where there may be a leadership change. how confident are you this alliance will stand behind ukraine even if donald trump does win november? >> well, let us be clear. it is in our interest to stand up to the new imperialism that we are seeing from vladimir putin. if we allow large countries to

ensaid and take over small countries, trust me, it will not end with ukraine, and despite the rhetoric, when you look at the figures. under donald trump's presidency more troops were sent to europe. under donald trump's presidency the javelins were sent to ukraine standing up to putin back in 2014, so, yes, of course, there's a lot of noise in our systems, but i think it's well understood, and i have spent time on the hill with republicans and democrats alike. the firmness and importance. alliance is understood. we'll come out of the alliance to make sure that putin knows that we are in this for the long haul. >> all right. british foreign secretary david lammy, thank you so much for coming on the show this morning. >> thank you. >> it's great to have you. thank you. >> thank you.

and coming up, we'll continue our conversation with the nato summit and the war in ukraine with former house speaker nancy pelosi along with the leader of the democratic opposition of belarus. "morning joe" will be right back. f belarus. "morning joe" llwi be right back

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autocrats on overturning global order which has been bay and large kept for 8 a years and counting. terrorist groups continue to plot evil schemes, to cause mayios and suffering. and in europe putin's aggression against ukraine continues and putin wants nothing less, nothing less than ukraine's total subjugation and to wipe ukraine off the map. we know putin won't stop at ukraine. make no mistake. ukraine can and will stop putin. >> all right. that was president biden yesterday at the start of a nato summit warning that russia's vladimir putin seeks nothing less than the total subjugation of ukraine. during his speech, biden announced a deal to provide air

defense systems for ukraine in coordination with america's nato allies. joining us now speaker emerita, democratic congresswoman nancy pelosi of california, and the leader of the democratic opposition of belarus svetlana skeneskya. lukaschenko declared victory and that widespread reports of being rigged in his favor, sound familiar? svetlana and pelosi are the kee authors of "nato is a bulwark of tyranny." thank you bet for joining us.

speaker pelosi, i want to start with you on president biden first because over the past 24 hours behind the sooents there's been a lot of depression among democrats. the phone lines burning up, concern about his candidacy around whether or not he can win and some even out loud are even shaky at best about president biden, whether or not he should step out of the race. the headlines, the polling, is all feels very dark. how do you think the president is doing in light of his poor debate performance? can he do more, and what do you say to democrats in congress and even members of the senate who are beginning to waiver in their support? >> good morning, mika. that's one version of the story. what i do want to say is that yesterday i was honored to be present at the president's speech for -- at nato. he was absolutely spectacular.

he was received over and over again with ovations for what he had to say and the force with which he said it, and then he gave the presidential medal of freedom to jens stoltenberg, the secretary-general of nato as one who has received it jens getting it brought luster to that honor. it was a beautifully received energetic presentation by the president. politics is politics. people have their interests in terms of their own region and the rest so we're the democratic party, a party that is, shall we say, not lock step but this president has been a great president, and i can tell you firsthand as a person who orchestrated many of the pieces of legislation that the president takes great pride in, and he should, because he was

there at the table chapter and verse very conversant with a vision, a purpose, with the knowledge of the issues, with values underlining it all, and, again, always asking the question what does this mean to working families in our country? so any thought that he wasn't able to deliver on all of those is i can just say didn't happen. >> madam speaker, you just went through the president's record, but let me ask you about the current moment. does he have your support to be the head of the democrat ticket? >> as long -- it's up to the president to decide if he is going to run. we're all encouraging him to make that decision because time is running short. i think the overwhelming support of the caucus, it's not for me to say, i'm not the head of the caucus anymore, but he's

beloved. he is respected, and people want him to make that decision. not me. >> he has said he has made the decision. he has said firmly this week he is going to run. do you want him to run? >> i want him to do whatever he decides to do, and that's -- that's the way it is. whatever he decides, we go with. i think it's really important, and i would hope everyone would join in, to let him deal with this nato conference. that is very big deal. over 30 heads of state are here. he is the host of it, and that means not just hosting it. it means orchestrating the discussion and setting the agenda, and he's doing so magnificently, and i said to everyone let's just hold off. whatever your thinking, either tell somebody privately, but you didn't have to put that out on the table until we see how we go this week. but i'm very proud of the president, and i'm very proud to

be here with sfest lana. >> and i've been on this show a number of times and it's such an honor to be with her a champion of democracy, a courageous leader in a very dangerous situation, so i'm looking forward to hearing from svetlana. >> let's turn to you now. thank you for being here. tell us. what did you hear at the nato summit? what's your overall message? >> what we are waiting for nato countries now is people who are fighting against dictatorship and against atrocities in our country and imperialism threats from russia. the task of dictators is to deplete the democratic world and to divide, you know, not purr -- pursue them and not to provide assistance to those nations who are fighting to dictatorship so we need unity and decisiveness

because very often i see undecisiveness percepted by dictators as weakness and they cross red line after red line like thinking when will be the answer from the powerful democratic world, and we need leadership of the usa. we need countrieses, nations who are fighting. we don't have enough strength to fight against dictator and we need leaders. >> owe on that point, mad ham speaker, on american leadership, there's real concern among some of the heads of state here and military leaders about what would happen to nato if donald trump were to be elected again. what is your level of anxiety about that? >> well, i think there's reason to be concerned for certainlior several reasons. first of all, when he was president, sad to say, when he was president, he said -- he cast doubt as to whether he would honor our mutual defense commitment that is in nato, and now -- and then you've heard him say if people haven't -- if countries haven't paid their 2%,

then putin can have at them. i mean, this is insane. i think we should be spending a lot more time paying attention to what this prospect is for our own national security. joe biden has expanded -- been a part of expanding nato, strengthening nato in a really remarkable way in, a way that -- that commands respect for our country to being respectful of other views and timing, and so it's -- the difference -- well, the contrast is so great, but in terms of our national security which is our responsibility to keep people safe, that means globally and locally in every way, donald trump is a danger to our country, and people should understand that, and when he goes off and cozies up to putin, his buddy for whatever reason, you know, when i left that table with that point to him, i was

saying with you, mr. president, all roads three-day putin and it still is true. what's the connection? i don't know, but whatever it is, it's dangerous. it is a dangerous to the american people and global security. >> i would like to ask svetlana about that. you know, donald trump has said he wants to lead like a dictator or be a dictator or whatever. he has cozied up to speaker emerita are and even in contact with him now is what he's bragging about. he has promised retribution to people who he feels has crossed him. so i'm wondering if you could explain what that would look like in the united states of america. what's the warning that you have for the american people of a presidency like that and also do you fear america's steadfast commitment to nato and freedom

will waiver if trump is elected? >> so, first of all, i want to appeal to americans that it's such a huge luxury to be able to honestly choose your future president because today 30 years when lukaschenko is governing belarus. 30 years we don't have such feeling that we don't know will be the next president of the country, so you have to cherish this, but, of course, now is such a huge turbulence in the world, and you have to think twice before choosing your future leader because the world has to be based on the values that your country is based on. it's the rule of law. it's democracy. it's justice. this is what we are like in our countries, and we need democratic leaders. we need democratic countries that based on this principle,

not business around policy but values around policy and we accept nato as military alliance but also political alliance and we, of course, need to promote this alliance to belarussians for whom -- for many, many years it was declared that nato's threat to our countries, and we need to explain to belarussians that it's an alliance of the democratic world, of democratic country whose main aim is peace and security in the whole world. >> mika, if i may. knowing of your commitment to recognizing the role of women, courageous women in the world, when svetlana ran for president in belarus, hundreds of thousands of people were in the street, largely women in the street supporting her candidacy. now she, of course, is under

arrest by the lukaschenko government, and today we fund out that yulia, the wife of alexei navalny is under arrest by the russians and perhaps you'll speak to that, not being unusual in your situation. i'll say this. i'm on the board of the munich security conference, and when svetlana comes, the response to her, the initiation of praise for her is so great, she is a global celebrity in terms of democracy and women and leadership and very courageous in terms of the dangerous nature of lukaschenko. >> yeah. dictators are learning from each other very fast. i was sentenced to 15 years of jail in absentia. now yulia navalny and dictators need to be stopped. they cannot be at peace. they cannot be re-educated. they can only be fought.

we need strong leaders to fight dictators. >> putin has been terrible to women and children, raepg of women and children, using rape to denortherlyize people in terms of the war effort and -- and putin is a war criminal in that regard, and it all goes back to him. the russian troops they turned into animals. look what they are doing to women. people say to me, make no mistake. russian soldiers do what they are ordered to do. ordered to do, so this is -- the role of women in all of this is very important. women in security, and as i say svetlana is a global heroine in that regard. hero. >> speaker emerita nancy pelosi and leader of the democratic opposition of belarus, and i -- and i want to thing you so much

for your leader and for speaking out, especially under the conditions that you are in and giving a warning of what fascism looks like, what dictatorships look like, what happens when democracy falls apart. still ahead -- >> thank you both very much for being on this morning. we'll get a live report from capitol hill followed by meetings from senate and house democrats on president biden's campaign. also ahead, we'll be joined by the mayor of atlanta on-of-andre dickens who was on the phone last night with the president and nearly 200 other democratic mayors. "morning joe" is coming right back. democratic mayors. "morning joe" is coming right back last night with the president and nearly 200 other democra "morning joe" is coming right back. >> i didn't even know what the hell nato was before, and it didn'tre take me long, two minutes, and a lot of them were

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♪ ♪ still ahead on "morning joe," one democratic senator saying now donald trump is likely to beat president biden in november, and the house and

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countries including president truman came together in this very room and created the north atlantic treaty organization. the single greatest most effective defensive lines in the history of the world. >> i didn't know what nato was too much before, but didn't take me long to figure out. about two minutes. >> america don't understand what would happen if there was no nato. another war in europe, american troops fighting and dying. >> every country has a watermark spot. >> we chose unity over disunion. >> sir, chris christie is not a fat pig. remember that. >> progress over retreat. >> freedom over tyranny. >> when people on our country protests on january 6th in washington, they came hostages.

>> hope over fear. >> let's look at the washington monument and look at some of the beautiful scenes and you end up getting shot, mugged, raped. >> make no mistake, ukraine can and will stop putin. >> i had a very good relationship with putin. we talked about it. was the apple of his eye. >> this is a pivotal moment for the world. >> they say it's terrible trump is rambling about lecter -- yes, oh, yes. >> that was donald trump yesterday, willie, at his first -- yeah. wow, wow, wow. at his first campaign rally in nearly two weeks, compared to president biden speaking to world leaders at the nato summit. it's a contrast. the biden campaign wants to continue to push and put the

focus back on his opponent rather than his own mental acuity. there are serious concerns within the democratic caucus about the president's re-election chances. now we are hearing publicly from a democratic senator that says biden's campaign could lead to republicans winning both chambers of congress. we will talk about all of this. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it's wednesday, july 10th. willie is back, and joe is off along with willie and me, we have the host of "way too early," jonathan lemire, mike barnicle, and "morning joe" economic analyst, steve rattner. that was an incredible parallel, willie, side by side. trump, very smooth. very smooth.

talking about chris christie being a fat pig, and the people on january 6th are hostages, smooth, and it was good that we could clearly understand that. >> ja, j6 hostages were those that beat up officers, and they were convicted by their peers. donald trump has been in hiding strategically for the last almost two weeks now since the debate and let this play out with joe biden and democrats and what to do about his future in the campaign. now he's back out there and the biden campaign says, remember that guy? here's the contrast they are looking for. and despite reported panic behind the scenes, according to the "new york times," democrats'

strategy could be dangerous. biden himself is the problem and their unwillingness to say so and long-time party loyalists say they have been reduced are hoping for another public misstep to persuade more to speak out or convince the president he should leave on his own. democrats met yesterday for the first caucus lunch before returning to the hill, and speaking to reporters after that meeting, democrats remained tight-lipped about what was said in the room and by whom. >> well, the concern is whether or not that was a one-off situation, or if there's more to the issue. >> how confident are you that president biden will be the democratic nominee in november?

>> i am confident at this point, and it remains to see the way he campaigns and the effectiveness of his campaigning whether or not he continues to be the flag barrier for our cause. >> it's really important that we focus on the fact that president biden has been a really excellent president and had a bad debate. former president trump had a horrific presidency. >> we don't have any concerns about his ability to serve four more years? >> no. >> do you want him to be the democratic nominee? >> i think if president biden feels, and he's in the best position to know, feel that he can take on donald trump, then, yes, i certainly do. that's what the president has indicated. >> the conversation was constructive. >> is the conversation over? >> no. >> standing behind the president but not with ringing

endorsements. and then a source familiar with yesterday's closed door meeting said some voiced concerns about the president winning the election. senator tester did not deny the report but referred nbc news to a statement in which he said president biden's debate performance raised concerns, and michael bennet stopped short of saying he should drop out of the race. >> it's true i did say that and i said that behind closed doors, and you guys and others asked whether i said it, and that's what i said. i figured i should come and say it publicly. >> why do you think he can't win in november? >> i just think that this race is on a trajectory that is

worrisome. joe biden was nine points up the last time he was running, and hillary clinton was up, and donald trump is on track, i think, to win this election, and maybe win it by a landslide and take with him the senate and the house. for me this is not a question of polling and not a question of politics. it's a moral question about the future of our country. i think it's critically important for us to come to grips with what we face if together we put this country on the path of electing donald trump again. >> joining us now, capitol hill news correspondent, ali vitali. and it's good to see one of the senators saying president biden was one of the best presidents in history, and his personal belief is that joe biden can't win the election.

is that reflective of what you are hearing privately when you talk to democratic lawmakers on the hill? >> good morning. kind of. what senator bennett is doing that so many others are not is coming out and putting his name publicly on the things he's saying privately to colleagues, friends and potentially to reporters. i think that's why the story has such a dissonance between the private and the public. there's still a large number of democrats behind the scenes who are griping and panicked and saying to their colleagues and actively weighing whether or not now is the time to come forward and say publicly either that they have concerns, as senator bennett was saying, or that they want joe biden to step down. right naught public numbers on that are only at nine on the

house side. bennett and senator patty murray are the only ones that have gone so far to say they have questions, in bennett's case, to outright consider the electability of the president. you bring up the other two senators who are in that room yesterday saying that they have concerns about biden's ability to win, and both of those same senators are in key senate seats that are needed and are essential for democrats to have any shot of maintaining what they have in the senate, let alone even think about growing it. if those two people start stepping forward, then i think you have a different dynamic here. the senate is also a different beast than the house. i think on the senate side, many of us are looking to the ways senators will handle this moment in large part because joe biden

was a member of their rankings for so many years as a senator. it's a body that he pays close attention to. it's a body that he respect. those are the colleagues, i think, in my conversations that could have more of an impact on the president if they were to try and make a final push to try and get him to renounce himself as the standard bearer of this party. yesterday there was a collective sigh and sense of resignation that it's sort of getting to be time to come together on this and support the nominee. >> the white house has done its job since the debate, and you have vigorous support and less

vigorous support, and they are publicly standing by joe biden, and they are tenuous hoping there's not another public moment where they have to change their opinion on this. >> yeah, and it's different what we are hearing public versus private. there's a sense that the white house and the re-election campaign last week was not doing nearly enough to try and tamp that down. when he finally sat down in the interview with george stephanopoulos on friday, that did not ease too many nerves. this week is different, and he has had a lot of public appearances and private calls where he made it very clear he's not going anywhere. obviously a message he delivered on this show earlier in the week as well. that's the strategy from the biden inner circle saying, look, if you want him out, put up or

shut up. if you want him out, put your name to it. few democrats have. there's a sense to be reluctant to challenge somebody that has been in their party so long, and what would be alternate be, and poll numbers have picked up as of late. top biden officials feel if they can get through this week, the numbers for support go up dramatically. you mentioned senate majority leader, chuck schumer, if he makes the pitch to the president, maybe he would listen, and so far schumer makes no effort to do that. nancy pelosi at this point has not called for president biden to step aside, mika. there's this week here where we

will talk more about nato later, but a chance for president biden to show not just democrats but eyes around the world that he's up for the job, and the news conference tomorrow, and that will be since the debate his first big moment, unscripted moment where he has a chance to show americans he can still do the job, and if that goes well and there's no rebellion, the biden team thinks he will get through it. >> it's interesting when you talk about what the alternative may or may not be, and that's an area where i think democrats are self-destructing. i will get to that in a moment. here's one democrat that believes president biden should step aside. this is congresswoman from new jersey. >> i spent the week hearing from my constituents about their strong concerns about prosecuting the case against donald trump, and i have heard

people concerned about supreme court and concerned about abortion, women's reproductive health, and advocating as strongly as possible that somebody would take that case strongly to the voters. >> you were at that meeting, and i will go to you with this notion. i think two things can be true at once, and a lot of democrats are being transparent about this, the notion saying they are acting trumpian, saying there's nothing to see. biden had a terrible debate night but president biden had a terrible presidency. democrats are being destructive if they tear president biden down, and they don't have an

alternative, and the questions after the debate -- hello -- are clear. >> yeah. >> they are very clear and people have made them. what happened? was it a onoff? was it episodic? everybody is asking that question and nobody is hiding and pretending nothing happened, and we all saw it and it's kind of hard to avoid. we all said that. he also has a record that is historic, and he has a lot of things to say about why he should, perhaps, remain on this campaign, and he also is raising a lot of questions, but the opponent right now is donald trump. the opponent right now is arguably certifiable in terms of the things he says onstage. he may say them smoothly and get a laugh out of them, but they are crazy or cruel or anti-democratic or downright criminal, okay? the j6 hostages.

right, and he's a convicted felon. i think democrats need to stay focussed on who the opponent is and the questions about biden, but don't forget his accomplishments. i wouldn't crucify the one candidate you have right now, unless somebody has an incredible alternative that is a shoo-in that would represent what the american people wanted, then go for it. i'm not seeing that. i am seeing a president that is extremely accomplished running for re-election and had a terrible night and is raising some questions about the opponent that i just described. you were at the meeting yesterday. what is your reporting out of the meeting? is anybody stepping up and seeing the parallel here, these two guys running against each other? >> a lot of them see the parallel, and a lot of them see exactly what you are talking about. we focus on the people who are

shaky or who have come out like mikie -- >> the president made clear yesterday that he's running, and to me that is dispositive that we have to support him. >> do you have concerns about biden being on the top of the ticket? >> we have concerns, and that's beside the point. he's going to be the nominee and we have to support him. >> has he eased your concerns over the last few days? >> he's made very clear he's running, and that's dispositive to me. we must get behind him and support him.

donald trump's election would be extremely destructive to american democracy. >> i feel like that conversation actually incapsulates so much of the conversation that i have had with democrats broadly on the hill, and that's that they are talking about the debate, and there's a parallel that i don't see that exists here for somebody who has reported on democrats and republicans on tense moments when people are not excited to talk to reporters about it, and republicans will not engage with the premise and say they didn't see the tweet or comment, and that's not what democrats are doing here, and they are engaging in a painful process about what to do about the person leading their party at this critical juncture. what i heard from the democrat sz the concern if this continues to drag out, and i am interested

in seeing once we come to the end of the week we don't see some sort of end to the hemming and huhhing process, but we are far from there yet. it's only wednesday, and a lot can happen. at the same time, the longer this drags on and the concern that i have heard from democrats who are reluctantly in the president's corner, they end up wounding who is their nominee at a point when they need to build him up and uniting behind him and making him stronger, and not just as we turn to the republicans and what the convention will bring. they want to be focused on the road ahead and they want to make sure their standard bearer can do it, too. >> thank you. the next guest served as nato commander, four-star admiral weighs in on the 75th anniversary of the alliance, and the summit is now underway in

washington. "morning joe" is back in a moment. fastsigns. make your statement™. (♪♪) with wet amd, i worry i'm not only losing my sight, but my time to enjoy it. but now, i can open up my world with vabysmo. (♪♪) vabysmo is the first fda-approved treatment for people with wet amd that improves vision and delivers a chance for up to 4 months between treatments, so i can do more of what i love. (♪♪) (♪♪) vabysmo works differently, it's the only treatment designed to block 2 causes of wet amd. vabysmo is an eye injection. don't take it if you have an infection, active eye swelling, or are allergic to it. treatments like vabysmo can cause an eye infection or retinal detachment. vabysmo may cause a temporary increase in eye pressure after receiving the injection. there is an uncommon risk of heart attack or stroke associated with blood clots. severe swelling of blood vessels in the eye can occur.

most common eye side effects were cataract and broken blood vessels. open up your world with vabysmo. a chance for up to 4 months between treatments with vabysmo. ask your doctor. at bombas we make the most comfortable sock in the history of feet so comfortable you'll wish you had more vist bombas.com and get 20% off your first order mike barnicle, what is your sense inside the biden campaign? we are almost two weeks since the debate, and they do seem to have gotten democrats to say something like that in public, that i am not thrilled about the process but president biden is still the nominee, and i believe

he can beat donald trump in 2020, and there have been some gains by donald trump, and they still believe -- at least they say so publicly, that joe biden is the guy that is going to beat donald trump. >> if you are in the biden campaign, you can sort of walk yourself back from the ledge a little after watching donald trump at the top of this hour, and that would give you hope. now, for several weeks trump has been fairly disciplined. trump, for the first time in his life has a campaign run by true professionals that pose a lethal threat to the biden candidacy. susan wildfires and chris lasveter is his name, and they are doing good so far having

trump -- and that's a sense of optimism you would have this morning, watching that take place. >> the strategy in the last two weeks has been to hide donald trump. >> now you see why. >> we have been talking about democrats and the voters and the polling. let's talk about the voter class in the democratic party that has a say in how all this turns out. what is the overwhelming sentiment right now about the men and women, democrats for most of their lives have supported joe biden after the last several years, and where are they now after the debate performance? >> there's nothing about the donor class wants more than to beat donald trump. that's the rallying cry and the objective, we just want to win. the debate performance obviously did not go well, shall i say, and has changed the dynamic

among the big donor class. there's antidotal evidence and the people i talk to, there's a few numbers floating around and the big donors are going to keep their checkbooks closed until they make sure joe biden is up to the job, and it could mean until the next debate on september 10th, and that's a long way away and the campaign has to raise money to get there. money is the air supply for any campaign, really, and if the supply gets cut off, you have problems. i have to also add, quite frankly, the president's comments on this show on monday when he talked about the billionaires and millionaires, and i will not be pushed around by them didn't go over so well by that donor class. we would all like to get out of the business of writing these

checks, but as long as the system is what it is, the money has to get raised and the donor class becomes important to the election. can i say something about the previous part of the conversation? i have been talking a lot to senators and congressmen, and i would underscore what ali and jonathan were saying, you have a lot of folks saying something or nothing in public and something else in private. there's something that has shifted the attitude about the state of the campaign and the president's political standing. they are terrified they cannot win. i would venture to say that a majority of the senate caucus, for example, if you took a vote would vote for a change but there are no votes. the problem with this is it's a revolution without a leader, and unless and until schumer, hakeem

jeffries, pelosi, maybe obama, weigh in on this thing. the president will be success in keeping it in his corner, and i don't want to suggest there has been a shift in the mood on the hill, and you want to navigate through it without blowing yourself up. the sentiment that there's going to be a change in direction here from the president to something else is not high. >> so just back to the donors for just a moment. if they are waiting to see some kind of a change, joe biden is not suddenly going to become 51. he will be 81 for the rest of the campaign. if they don't see what they want to see, talking about the donors again, what comes next? is there a plan? are they trying to rally other candidates? what do they do? >> if you want to talk about

capitol hill has a bit of morphing, they will come back with perhaps enthusiasm, and even if he doesn't do great, the donors want to win. they want to beat donald trump. they don't have a plan, but a bunch of them will come back once it's clear that, a, joe biden is the nominee, and that he's in the game, so to speak, and if it's not a reagan-like performance, at least he will clear the bar and they can support him. coming up on "morning joe" -- >> democracies last on average 250 years. in only two years america will celebrate its 250th birthday. will we make it to the party? >> you might recognize the voice

narrating that new documentary. it's oscar winner, michael douglas, and he joins the table straight ahead with a powerful new look at why america is burning. "morning joe" is back in a moment. ♪ ♪ because your basic things should be your best things. one purchased equals one donated. visit bombas.com and get 20% off your first order. sure, i'm a paid actor, and this is not a real company, but there is no way to fake how upwork can help your business. search talent all over the world with over 10,000 skills you may not have in house. more than 30% of the fortune 500 use upwork because this is how we work now.

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♪ ♪ as we mentioned at the top, president biden addressed allies at the start of the 75th nato summit being held in washington, d.c. here's more of what the president had to say yesterday. >> today nato is more powerful than ever. 32-nations strong. for years fin hrupd and sweden were among our closest partners.

now they have chosen to officially join nato, and because of the power and the meaning of article 5 guarantee, that's the reason. it was the most important aspect of the alliance in 1949, and still the most important aspect. friends, we are still stronger than ever and it calls for our collective streets. autocrats, overturned global order and by and large was kept for years and counting. in europe, putin's war of aggression against ukraine continues, and putin wants nothing less, nothing less, than ukraine's total sub yao investigation, to destroy ukraine's culture and to wipe

ukraine off the map. we know putin won't stop at ukraine. make no mistake, ukraine can and will stop putin. today, i'm announcing a historic donation of defensive equipment for ukraine. united states, germany, the netherlands and italy will provide ukraine with equipment for five strategic defense systems. in the coming months, the united states and our partners intend to provide ukraine with air tactical defense systems. >> joining us now, retired four-star navy admiral. it's always great to have you with us, and particularly on the topic near and dear to you, which is nato, the growth and strength of nato over the last couple of years since russia

launched its war inside ukraine. what do you make of what you saw yesterday about the alliance that has been so critical in the last 50 years -- excuse me, 75 years, and being stronger than ever today? >> yeah, it's stronger than ever, and our motto, when i was the commander, it was stronger together. both of those things are so true. just to move beyond the words, this is an motto anchored by the united states with the defense budget. here's the punch line, willie, the rest of nato's budget is $400 billion collectively, second largest in the world. it's bigger than china's budget. it's four times the size of russia's budget. you put it altogether, and nato has ten times the military budget, for example, of russia.

number two, 3 million young men and women under arms, almost all volunteers, 800-ocean and combat aircraft, it's a powerful military alliance. if you go to the gross domestic product, ask steve rattner about it, you add up the united states, 25% of the world, the rest of nato, probably, 20, 25% of the world, and close to 50% of the world's gross domestic product represented by the leaders here showing next to me right now. third, and finally, and this is really the strength of it, and the strength of the speech that president biden gave at the beating heart of this alliance is article 5, a guarantee that if one nation is attacked all will respond. that article 5 has been evoked exactly once in the history of nato.

not during the cold war against the soviet union. it was evoked on 9/11 when we were attacked, europeans came with us and fought and died in afghanistan after we were attacked, as the nato commander, i signed hundreds of letters to young europeans' families, and it's a challenge and overall we are lucky to be the leader of this alliance. coming up, our next guest, the mayor of atlanta, georgia, andra dickens, straight ahead on "morning joe."

♪ ♪ on capitol hill yesterday federal reserve chairman, jerome powell, indicated there could be an interest cut coming soon, saying holding interest rates too high for too long could jeopardize economic growth. he did not specify when that cut could come. let's bring back steve rattner, and we are looking at the records of president biden versus donald trump. >> donald trump argued president biden has delivered the worst economy in history, so let's look at a few metrics that might suggest the facts are something different. we can start with job growth.

this is job growth across presidents going back to reagan, but let's focus on trump and versus biden, and let's be fair and strip out the affects of covid which hurt donald trump and helped joe biden during the recovery. that's the darker bars. and even stripping out covid, joe biden created an average of 268,000 jobs a month. that's not only more than donald trump, that's more than any president going back to somewhere before reagan. we go back to reagan here. even clinton and even reagan, joe biden created ex-covid, more jobs. let's look at the record on manufacturing jobs. it's true manufacturing jobs began to come back under trump. not surprisingly they fell off a cliff. joe biden has brought them back to the highest level they have been at since during the financial crisis.

you have 186,000 more manufacturing jobs than we had in 2008. obviously we would like to have more and manufacturing is a tough category for us. >> let's go to the growth of gdp and wages, how much money people are making. how do those two stack up there? >> the gdp is the holy grail of any economy, and the faster you grow the better off people will be, and let's be fair and strip out covid from the results and look at what we see. under trump, gdp growth averaged 2.6% during his presidency, and jobe averaged 3.6%, and 1% on an economy that is well over $20 trillion, and that's an enormous

difference, and this one is not even close. look, we all have to acknowledge that inflation has been tough. there's no doubt that we went from a very benign inflation environment to a high inflation environment. some of that was driven by the supply chain problems, and when you have shortages prices tend to go up. a lot was driven by the federal reserve and not addressing that quickly enough with interest rates. yes, some of that is on the biden administration with the american rescue plan, and in retrospect, many thought that was too much. first of all, inflation has come way down, and it's close as powell suggested in his testimony yesterday, it's getting close to where the fed could cut interest rates as soon as september. secondly, for more than a year, wage growth has been higher than inflation. in other words, the wage growth, the black line, higher than the

green line. we are making up ground and it's moving in the right direction. coming up, how the white house is managing president biden's schedule in light of last month's debate. politico's eugene daniels is standing by with that, and he joins us live straight ahead on "morning joe." it's pods biggest sale of the summer. save up to 25% on moving and storage for a limited time. and see why pods has been trusted with over 6 million moves. but don't wait, use promo code big25 to save.

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as questions continue to swirl around president biden's neurological health, stemming from that debate performance two weeks ago, one doctor is saying age is not the issue. former obama white house adviser for health policy vice provost for global initiatives at the university of pennsylvania dr. zeek emanuel has a new article for the atlantic entitled, there are

exceptionally sharp octogenarians, biden isn't one. he writes the white house and the biden campaign suggested the president's problems at the debate stemmed from an exhausting travel schedule and a cold. such explanations do not inspire confidence. yes, it is common for elderly people to bounce back more slowly from stressors, but even if jet lag and illness exacerbated normal cognitive limitations, said limitations remain, ready to surface again. and who knows when the next life and death decision will need to be made? crises don't wait patiently for presidents to be fully prepared. someone whose cognitive competencies can be compromised as badly as biden's were by routine travel and a mere cold may be able to live a normal life, but they would be hard pressed to endure the rigors of negotiating with congress or a foreign leader, much less making multiple rapid decisions when some future domestic or global disaster emerges.

and i should point out that president biden is right now at the nato summit, hosting it, and zeek joins us now along with nbc news medical contributor dr. vin gupta. zeek, wouldn't we have seen more, for what you're saying, more issues, wouldn't they have come out in the past? some people are saying that maybe there was some hiding going on. >> yeah, i think that has been suggested. joe biden has had fewer spontaneous interactions than other presidents, much fewer. there is, you know, you talk to people who have been around the president and for several months, if not for a year, there has been a noticeable shift from the mental agility, the acuity, the good give and take and the perceptive questions to after

the summer of 2023 where that has declined. we should say, this is normal aging. and there is -- doesn't have to be any disease here, this is what happens as people age and their fluid intelligence or ability to problem solve, their verbal influence sy declines. >> what is your take on what has become the story, the only story of the day it seems and that is joe biden's mental acuity, what do you make of the debate and what do you make of his recovery from it? >> well, i thought you laid it out there really nicely, to say i care for many octogenarians and i would say from a cardiovascular standpoint and what we have seen from a mental acuity standpoint, last night, you mentioned it with the nato summit, there is going to be days that are better, there are going to be days that are not as good. cardiovascularly he's in excellent shape. i think he's actually quite high

functioning as an octogenarian and keeping up that schedule and so, you know, just from -- this is a subjective conversation, zeek is offering his opinion, i can tell you what i see in my own clinic and what i see clinically, i think joe biden is actually quite robust, relative to what we see normal aging at 81, more broadly what i would say is exactly to your point, we don't talk enough about his opponent. there are signs of forgetfulness, judgment issues, we saw that last night in the speech he gave in florida, the exact same things that we're talking about and scrutinizing the president about certainly we're seeing symptomatic in former president trump. more broadly, it is really important how we -- let's forget the 2024 election, let's just focus on cognitive testing. this has now become a bad phrase and i worry about that. less than 20% of individuals 65 years of age and older, mika, actually voluntarily even seek out any type of brain health support. there is many reasons that are reversible if somebody is

experiencing age-related decline. like hypothyroidism, vitamin deficiency, maybe it is a recent concussion. there are ways to talk about this that is not stigmatizing because people can get help for their brain and we need to be normalizing brain health like we talk about cardiovascular health and i worry the impact that this dialogue is having across the country on something that is critically important to people aging. coming up, according to one senate democrat, donald trump is poised to win in november. and possibly by a landslide. we'll go live to capitol hill for the very latest on president biden's efforts to tamp down those concerns among members of his own party. that's straight ahead on "morning joe." that's straight ahead on "morning joe." i felt like disconnecting. i asked my doctor about treating my td, and learned about ingrezza. ♪ ingrezza ♪ ingrezza is clinically proven for reducing td.

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congressional democrats gathered behind closed doors to talk about biden's future and one of them called a come to

jesus meeting. no, no. do not let joe come anywhere near jesus until november 6th. walk away from the light, joe. get away. >> some describe the meeting as very positive. while others say the room was filled with sadness. so, basically our government has the same plot as "inside out 2." >> all right, welcome to the fourth hour of "morning joe." it is 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. in the east. jonathan lemire, mike barnicle still with willie and me. joining the conversation, we have the host of the podcast don brand with donny deutsch, donny deutsch, msnbc political analyst and publisher of the newsletter the ink, anan giardis, eugene daniels and nbc news capitol hill correspondent ryan nobles is with us this hour. president biden continues to work behind the scenes to shore

up support for his re-election bid, and earlier this morning, speaker emerita nancy pelosi joined us on "morning joe." and i asked her whether or not president biden should drop out of the race. she went over a litany of his accomplishments during his first term. and so, jonathan lemire followed up with this question. >> madam speaker, you went through the president's record, let me ask you about the current moment. does he have your support to be the head of the democratic ticket? >> as long as the president has -- it is up to the president to decide if he is going to run. we're all encouraging him to make that decision because time is running short. the -- i think overwhelming support of the caucus, it is not for me to say, i'm not the head of the caucus anymore, but he's

beloved. he is respected. and people want him to make that decision. >> he has said he's made the decision. he said firmly this week he is going to run. do you want him to run? >> i want him to do whatever he decides to do. and that's the way it is. whatever he decides. >> ryan nobles, we had governor gretchen whitmer on the show earlier. and her support of joe biden staying right where he is was much more full throated. what are you hearing? >> reporter: yeah, mika, i think it is what speaker pelosi didn't say that was most revealing in that interview that you guys conducted last hour. she had the opportunity to say definitively that, yes, she believes that joe biden should be the leader of the party. and she chose not to. and, honestly, her view in that interview reflects a lot of the ambivalence we're seeing on capitol hill after the series of closed door meetings that took place here yesterday, it did seem on monday as though

president biden had stopped the bleeding in terms of congressional support. but inside those meetings we know that there was a lot of tense conversation about the path forward, people really concerned about whether or not joe biden has what it takes to take on donald trump in the fall. and as a result, you saw more and more congressional democrats, either come right out and say they think he should step down or others stating publicly for the very first time that they don't believe that he can win in november. for the first time, a sitting democratic member of the senate saying out loud what many of his colleagues are saying privately. >> donald trump is on track, i think, to win this election, and maybe win it by a landslide and take with him the senate and the house. >> reporter: senator michael bennett of colorado echoing what he and two other senators, jon tester and sherrod brown, told colleagues in a closed door meeting. they don't think joe biden can win. >> i think that we could lose the whole thing and it is

staggering to me. >> reporter: coming on the same day as another house democrat, congresswoman mikie sherrill, joined the group calling for biden to step aside. >> i spent the week hearing from my constituents about their concerns about pressing the case against donald trump. >> reporter: but most democratic party heavyweights still backing the president. >> i'm with joe. >> riding with biden. >> reporter: the president remaining defiant and his allies urging support. >> every minute we spend focusing on questions and concerns about his debate rather than questions and concerns about trump's leadership is a day that we are missing. >> reporter: some democrats have concerns behind closed doors. describing biden as shaky, and expressing real doubts he has what it takes to beat donald trump. one democratic house member telling nbc news, quote, people are very frustrated that the president appears defensive and in denial. but many are not speaking out publicly. >> are you on the same page? >> no.

>> what do you mean you're not on the same page? >> not even in the same book. >> reporter: one of the democrats who privately called for biden to withdraw now saying he'll support biden. >> with concerns or not is beside the point. he is going to be our nominee and we all have to support him. >> reporter: i think it is also important to point out that even those democrats who say that they're with joe biden do so almost reluctantly. the senate majority leader chuck schumer, i was in the press conference with him yesterday, he was asked a series of questions about his support for joe biden, all he would say is i'm with joe. he wouldn't talk about his concerns. he wouldn't talk about anything else related to the campaign itself. just didn't want to touch the topic. and so, many of these democrats that i talked to say that they are really looking forward to this press conference that the president is going to hold on thursday, a solo press conference as part of the nato summit. there is a real belief the president has to have an ace performance in that press conference to assuage some of these concerns that they have,

but right now, you know, willie, it is a weird situation because in many ways it is a worst case scenario for democrats because they're leaving the president to twist in the wind as to whether they dither on whether they stick with him long-term. at some point they have to make a final decision whether or not they're all in or all out and that seems to be running out. >> what an extraordinary commentary on where we are, that the president of the united states must have a perfect press conference tomorrow for democrats to continue to support him. it is amazing. and i have to point out, ryan, that he sent a letter to congressional democrats saying in no uncertain terms i'm staying in the race, and yet you still have former speaker pelosi and other democrats saying, well, we need to wait and decide what he says. he has said he's staying in the race, and yet it seems like they're giving him space to maybe change his mind. is that fair to say? >> reporter: i think that's exactly right, willie. i think jonathan lemire really pressed her on that. he's already made his decision.

he said it time and time again, if you're on the text messages that his campaign sends out trying to elicit fund-raising support, they constantly say over and over again, i am in this race, i am not going anywhere. the posture of the white house and the campaign is that the decision has already been made and yet you hear prominent democrats like speaker pelosi saying we need to wait for him to make that decision. that would indicate that there is wiggle room there, that there is still an opportunity for him to step aside and that they need to see more at the very least it just le leaves him in a weak position in a time where he needs to be a strongest. >> ryan nobles on capitol hill for us this morning. thanks so much. jonathan lemire, you were seated next to speaker pelosi there in washington, talking to her in that clip we showed. it is not the first time she has sort of left that door open, and did an interview last week where she said these are legitimate questions about the president's mental acuity. we need to explore these and see if he's the right guy going forward. not inspiring a lot of

confidence in her support for the president in your conversation a short time ago. >> what is striking here, willie, is the timing. there was a conventional wisdom around washington and among democrats that if the president were to step aside, or be pushed aside, by congressional leadership, it would have to be this week. and this week started with, yes, a few voices saying he should go, but most democrats seemingly falling in line, seemed like the white house, biden re-election campaign had sort of tamped down the opposition. former speaker pelosi knew what she was doing and as ryan said, it is what she didn't say. she opened that door wide open again. and seemed to kick the can down the road a little bit, extending this timeline, saying, let's get through nato. let's see how this week goes and that includes the news conference tomorrow, meaning that she and democrats would give the president some more time and those that want him to step aside might be willing to wait over the weekend into next week to see if they can get the president to budge.

the white house in response to our interview with former speaker pelosi, the campaign put out a statement, the president said he's in, he told congressional democrats as much in the letter this week, give us more reaction you're getting and how they attempt to game plan what seems like maybe a few more days into next week of uncertainty as to whether or not democrats will fall in line. >> irritation is the word that i keep hearing from people in biden world, right? they look at this, this statement from former speaker pelosi, but also other democrats who are kind of waffling or giving not clear answers, kind of passive aggressive, my husband is from the midwest, now i understand what passive aggressiveness is and that's what you're seeing, right? it is up to you, i made the decision, well, just make the decision i want you to make. and that is what you're seeing. a couple of people that i talked to today texted about how, you know, no one pushed speaker

pelosi out when she wanted to be speaker one more time, that was a conversation happening within the democratic caucus. the idea that at this point president biden is going to be -- is going to change his mind, there is no reporting, you're talking to people i'm talking to that has not changed whatsoever. i think all it does is up the ante for this press conference tomorrow. he can't do the normal two reporters ask two questions thing, right? it has to be as karine jean-pierre called a big boy press conference, we don't know what that means, how big does this have to be and does it have to be like the first press conference he did when he went over, i think, like an hour and a half at least taking questions from almost everybody inside that room. and as you move forward, the timing -- it is not only that the timing this week is running out, next week they're out, congress is out. they didn't do anything last

week when they were out. they could have made a plan, those that want him to move aside and there is a lot of them that do and aren't saying it publicly, it could come on monday to congress having a plan, but they didn't do that. and they're not just running out of time, it seems they're running out of steam, but the conversation is never going to go anywhere. and last thing i'll say is that no matter what ends up happening, if president biden continues to be the nominee, every time he stumbles or has a normal joe biden lapse he's been having for 50 years, folks are going to have this conversation again, we're going to ask every democrat running for office around the country about it, so it is not going away for four months and at this point it could be a damage to his candidacy. >> for democrats saying so much is going into this press conference tomorrow, what constitutes a satisfactory performance by the president? what would make them happy? what would convince them he should go forward? it is unclear. according to a new aarp poll out of wisconsin, donald trump leads president biden 50-45 among

likely voters there. what is telling is that the same time the survey shows incumbent senator tammy baldwin leading her republican opponent by five points. so, basically the president running ten points behind senator baldwin there. meanwhile, a trusted election forecaster has shifted its projections in donald trump's favor following the debate. the cook political report moved the states of arizona, georgia and nevada from tossups to lean republican. minnesota, new hampshire and nebraska's second congressional district, cook changed the races from likely democrat to lean democrat. those all were states and districts won by president biden in 2020. a republican has not won the state of new hampshire since george w. bush in 2000. and republican hasn't carried minnesota since richard nixon in 1972. take all that and take this

conversation we're hearing, you heard speaker pelosi in our last hour talking to jonathan lemire, not exactly a full throated endorsement, said we're waiting for his decision, he says i made my decision, i'm staying in, where are we in this process right now? >> you know, if you become a student of history, every society before they have fallen into dictatorship, this kind of acquiescence and there is resignation, feels like if we continue with joe biden that's what we're doing. i do not believe in my heart of hearts, saying this on my children, that joe biden can beat donald trump and that's all that matters. joe biden is a great man and he's been a great president. but we have to have the courage right now to look at the unknown. right now it is a blank piece of paper. let me say what the alternatives are. vice president harris, john shapiro, wes moore, gretchen whitmer. those i believe in my heart of hearts give us a better chance. interesting, you mentioned the times report, top democrats swallow fears and back biden. no. you can't swallow your fear. the generations before us, they were great.

they stormed normandy. right? we don't have to do that. we're just going to be judged if we have the courage to take on the unknown and it is going to be messy and scary and we have to break the furniture. by the way, if we end up with biden, it will be a great stress test. this is the time and if everybody behind the scenes does not feel that joe biden can win, let's say it out loud. it doesn't mean joe biden is not a great man. he's not the solution now. we can't be governed by fear and i just feel right now we're afraid of the unknown. the unknown can be exciting. and scary at the same time. let's not be fearful. >> senator michael bennett came out on tv last night and said what you're saying, i love joe biden, one of the best presidents in modern history, but i don't think he's going to beat donald trump in the fall. what is telling you that? why don't you think joe biden -- >> very simple reason. the narrative, and joe said this the other day and i said it and other people have said it, if the narrative is about joe biden, we lose. if the narrative is about donald trump, we win.

three hours into the show, i think we're a dictatorship has been mentioned once about donald trump. that's what has to happen. we're staring in a dystopian society, the hand maid's tale. we can't run from fear right now. a billion dollars is going to be spent basically saying joe biden, run the clips, people can't unsee what they saw. and we're giving people permission to vote for donald trump. i see that billion dollars coming at us, i see every day the papers, i see every day -- i don't know how to turn that narrative around. that's where i'm coming from. i'm coming from my heart. i'm coming from what everything i know about communications and messaging, i think that the ship has sailed. and i think we have to be brave enough to acknowledge that. >> and then we saw michael bennett last night on television saying that he thought that joe biden would lose. we have seen other democrats hinting that they are unsure about the future. but there is a huge, huge difference between pushing someone out and allowing someone

to step out on their own. so, in your view, given human nature, what is the difference between pushing someone out and allowing the president to make his own decision on his own time and how much time do you think he has to make that decision? >> yeah, i think it is a really important point. i think, first of all, just in the way people are talking about this, it has become so hostile, hostile online, hostile interpersonally, i say at the beginning, this is a -- this is a family fight, families do fight and it is a fight within the pro democracy movement in this country. and it is an honorable argument. and i think we should first of all not be demonizing people who are landing in different places in this argument. and there is a lot of dismissal of the concerns that are being raised that are real concerns. concerns that the people who publicly are saying there is no issue are privately acknowledging there is an issue. in terms of the issue you raised, we just have a post up at the inc. today about what i

see as biden's three choices. i think, you know, and i broke them down according to the human response to threat, fight, flight, or freeze. and i'm not making the choice for him. no one else is going to make the choice for him as you say. but i try to handicap what the choices are. and i think when you talk about coming back from this, it would have to be the fight option is coming back twice as alive as any president living or dead. if you truly want to come back from this moment, if you want to prove donnie wrong in what he said, you have to show, not tell. i bet johnny would -- donnie would happily retract what he said now if a joe biden came back and presented a level of vigor, presented a level of fight, laid out a second term policy agenda that dazzled all of us into silence, that came back when the supreme court declares the rule of law doesn't exist in this country anymore, came back within minutes with a forceful statement about packing

the court, going to battle with that court. if we saw -- if joe biden wants to come back, it is not just a question of status quo come back or go, it is a question of how would you come back in a way that would make people forget your date of birth. i think that's a possibility. you have to want to do that. then we get to the other option, if joe biden is honestly looks at that and says, you know what, i actually at a stage in life where i don't want to do that. i don't want to have to be twice as alive as any president living or dead, that is honorable as you say. and i think there it is really crucial to understand this point. i learned this point when i was writing in my last book about aoc, she talks about learning from her mentor in texas, the golden gate of retreat. you have to give people the golden gate of retreat. you have to give people an honorable way out. and i think that's going to be really important here. i don't think he's going to be humiliated into a decision. i don't think he's going to be cornered into a decision. i think this has to be the kind

of george washington move that you say good-bye to save democracy, to strengthen democracy, to establish an idea of democracy. what better act of optimism would there be in the future of this country, in the fact that it doesn't all depend on one random guy that actually you are so confident in the extraordinary bench of talent in this country that you feel like you can do the george washington thing. and finally, the option -- the third option i laid out, freeze. that is the truly catastrophic option. i think america can get through one way or another with the fight, stay and fight, or honorably flight. the freeze option is neither going big nor going home. it is staying in, staying in the status quo, and kind of -- a low energy, low ambition way muddling through, not delivering a second term agenda that would

dazzle young people, dazzle other people who have legitimate concerns now into stunned silence, the freeze option, the staying in and muddling through option, that is catastrophe. and so i want to know if the president plans to stay, can he stay and truly fight? and be almost a version of joe biden that we have never seen yet. >> so i think joe biden's probably -- if he were to be watching now it would be like i have said i'm staying. i'm not going anywhere. which brings us back to fight. and i just want to respond to a couple of things that have been said here, anand, so beautifully, and before you as well. there is a lot of hostility. there is a lot of hostility. and america has become open to this type of behavior over the past four to eight years and that's something to keep in mind. there are behaviors that are

acceptable to americans that once never were. most of them, behaviors conducted by former president donald trump, who is a convicted felon. donnie said, you know, we haven't heard the word dictatorship on the show at all. we had the opposition leader of belarus on the show this morning. and she gave a flat out warning to americans of what it would look like if trump were to win a second term and she said it in the starkest of terms, and i urge our viewers to pull that up because we're not headed in the direction of democracy if trump wins the election. gretchen whitmer came on the show and i asked her what a second trump term would mean for america, and she flat out said, it would mean america has failed. as in this democracy ceases to

exist. this democracy falls apart. america will have failed. that's pretty stark. admiral stavridis was on the show this morning talking about the strength of nato under president biden, something he has done single-handedly after trump worked to tear it apart and promises to do so again and cozying up to putin. so, yeah, this is what, it is true what a dictatorship looks like, when it is coming at you at 100 miles an hour. and people do get really scared and they act in way they never expect. and i think we ought to take a close look, especially democrats, at ourselves, because there is a bit of self-destruction that is happening here. i really disagree with nancy pelosi, with her remarks and i have tremendous respect for her. she is a close family friend. but joe biden is the president of the united states and he says he's not leaving, those are his

words, i suggest somebody think about, consider, believing him. and look at what he has to consider, anand, because he has to look at his record, and that's the record he's presenting to the american people, and it is a record that is by any measure historic. and he also feels that with his wisdom and his experience, both winning and losing throughout his life, that he's the best person for the job. and so i'm just curious about what you think about democrats who are sort of not taking a moment to recognize that, even if they do have questions. look, i'm the first to say the debate was an unmitigated disaster. i'm not blind of that. it does raise questions. i wonder. is there a condition. i'm wondering the same things everybody else is. at the same time, i'm not

wondering whether or not he can do the job. that's not just not a question i have. others do. that's fair. but i wonder why he can't answer the question for himself. i think he deserves that right. >> well, he is answering the question for himself, as you say. >> people aren't listening. >> in a democracy, you know, not -- it is not -- doesn't matter who comes on the show and gives their opinion about it. but very large percentages of voters have been airing these concerns that were kind of crystallized by the debate for a long time. this is ultimately his decision in the system we have. but people are using their voice to lobby one way or another. your point on dictatorship is important. if there is one person who i'm certain who should drop out of this race, it is donald trump. donald trump is the person who should drop out of this race.

first and foremost. the argument that is being had now among democrats is an honorable, loving argument, sometimes not conducting in a loving way, about what would best save democracy. and i think joe biden's decision ultimately will be about whether he would best save democracy by staying, which he might conclude, or leaving, which he might conclude. but i think the most important thing here that is not being talked about enough is -- it is not just important what the decision is, it is important how this process is carried out, in drawing a contrast, with the maga cult. right? the maga cult is based on lies. so i think it is incredibly important that democrats going through this process on all sides of the argument lean into truth. and that hasn't always been happening. the maga cult is built on gas lighting. so i think it is really, really important that democrats on all sides of this argument don't do this thing about brow beating people, about what people are seeing with their own eyes, what they struggled with their own

parents. this maga movement is based on a cult-like fealty to the dear leader. it is important that the democrats embrace dissent and embrace dissent as a loving thing that people do within movements, within causes, and not stigmatize people who are raising legitimate concerns, not call them bed wetters, not call them, you know, davos elites when millions of americans are feeling these concerns. i would say the maga cult is built on demonizing the media. i think people going through this process on the democratic side should not demonize the media. us having this conversation on "morning joe" is not the problem in the country right now. and finally, that maga cult is based on putting the dear leader ahead of the country and i think democrats should go through this process, whatever they decide, in a way that shows that they care about the country more than any leader, any party, any election, they care about the country. show people that. >> anand, the new piece is up at the dot ink.

thanks so much. donnie, this is -- part of why this is so difficult is it is a gamble. he stays in, it feels like a gamble to a lot of people. this is not a question of elites speaking out against joe biden. this is how people are feeling. you feel it at restaurants and you feel it at the dry cleaners and all over the place. the other gamble is, okay, he steps aside, then what? there is no guarantee anybody comes along and wins either. >> it is more risk averse to stay the course. i love that mika and i disagree on this. that's all i'm asking for. this is the time we have the discussion. this is the time we break the furniture a little bit. if joe biden comes out of it the candidate, he's going to be stronger, people won't have doubts. this is the moment in time we put it all on the table. and as i said before, i love joe biden, he has been -- he belongs on mount rushmore. i don't know if he gives us the best chance to win. i think mika and i care about the same thing and feel the same thing.

it is just how do we get there. but i do know this, right now is the time we mess things up a little bit. we'll recover if it's not right. >> i'm ready to mess things up. let's do it. let's do it. let's do it. joe biden has an historic record. he had a terrible night. he has picked himself up and so far seems cogent and is going to do a press conference this week. we'll see how that goes. but, this is the known entity who has beaten trump, who has the experience to have a successful presidency. what is your alternative? >> my alternative is the unknown. and the unknown is this, vice president kamala harris or some of the up and comers we can create excitement about. i'm not saying it is not scary. i'm not saying -- i'm just saying that right now the only way we win this election is if we make it 24/7 about donald trump. and i'm concerned with joe biden, the perception of joe biden, i don't have the tools in

my toolbox to turn that around and too much is going to be on biden and not enough on trump. the unknown gives us a better chance. if it is joe biden, i'll spend 24/7, every bone in my body, he's a great man. you're asking me, i think in this case the unknown gives us a better chance. >> president biden said in no uncertain terms including in a letter to the democrats in congress he is in the race. he's staying in the race. yet we hear this, well, we need him to make a decision. what would change the thinking of the biden campaign and the people in the building behind you, what would get them off of their current position which is he's in the race, through election day? >> yeah, there are a couple of things that could possibly change. and i want to caveat this with that. the inner circle believes that he is the only person that can beat donald trump. they believe that in their bones. it is a commandment within biden world. one would be polling showing that someone else beats donald trump, right? right now we're seeing polling

that shows that correspondent kamala harris might do better, but she's losing. we see polling that it may be gretchen whitmer, but she's losing. and those are the things -- that's the polling aspect of this. the other aspect of this is strong conversations with speaker -- former speaker nancy pelosi, hakeem jeffries, chuck schumer, jim clyburn, coming to president biden and telling him in no uncertain terms that they believe he needs to step aside. it can't be, like, we want you to make the decision, we love you, think of the country, they have to be clear about that. those are the four people that folks have said -- that aren't in his family that have said could move president biden, dr. jill biden, and his sister has a lot of sway with him as well. unless those things happen, it is very difficult to see how he does that. they don't care. this has been said to us over and over again about a lot of front liners who have been saying this.

he may not like to hear it, but that's the truth of the matter at this point. those two things are the only things i think at this point that could change this. >> all right. white house correspondent for politico eugene daniels, thank you, and donny deutsch. >> i love you, i love your passion. that's what it is all about. let's have the discussions now. i love you too. the mayor of atlanta -- >> don't let anyone hear that. the mayor of atlanta andre dickens is standing by to tell us about president biden's call last night with democratic mayors. we'll ask him if the meeting moved the needle. also ahead, two-time oscar winning actor michael douglas will be our guest to discuss his new documentary "america's burning." "morning joe" will be right back. burning. "morning joe" will be right back now, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are looking up ♪ ♪ i've got symptom relief ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me ♪ (♪♪) ♪ control is everything to me ♪

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later today, president biden will meet with the nation's top union leaders. biden will sit down with the executive council of the afl-cio, the country's largest federation of trade unions, 60 union leaders who represent 12.5 million working americans are expected to attend. he will also hold a rally in detroit on friday, where the united autoworkers union is headquartered. president biden's outreach to shore up support for his candidacy continued last night, this time with democratic mayors. he met virtually with nearly 200 mayors to discuss the stakes at the 2024 elections for cities across america. he also addressed how he had fallen short as he put it during the debate two weeks ago calling it, quote, a lousy night. and joining us now, one of the mayors who was on that call, atlanta's andre dickens. thank you so much for coming on the show this morning. we appreciate it.

let's get right to it. i'm wondering, mr. mayor, how president biden seemed on the call, how did he do? did he seem fit for the presidency? >> yeah, i mean, joe biden came on to the call and we had a great discussion as mayors, you know, hundreds of mayors across the country, were able to hear directly from president biden. he's fired up. he's ready to defeat donald trump. he was on there talking about the wonderful things he's done already over the past three and a half years as president of the united states. he also doubled down on how he supported cities throughout his presidency. as mayors, we work directly with the white house because of his leadership. this administration of the president biden and harris administration has given mayors direct access to them, and so the american rescue plan act dollars they came up with, they came right down to cities, the bipartisan infrastructure law came right to cities, he talked directly to mayors because he understands our job is on the

ground, working with people in businesses right in our communities. this is a fired up call, with him talking directly to us and saying, he's going to run right through the finish line and still be our president. >> mr. mayor, we have heard donald trump repeatedly vilify cities, paint them in the harshest of terms. what would it be like in your estimation for your city and cities like yours were trump to win the white house again this november? >> well, donald trump has already talked negatively about atlanta at every chance he can get. and that's, you know, primarily because he was arrested here and booked in his mug shot came about at the atlanta -- in atlanta at the fulton county sheriff's office because he has to stand trial here for trying to steal an election. so, no wonder donald trump doesn't like atlanta and doesn't like cities in general because cities actually work on the ground in reality.

the things that mayors come up and do directly affects people. donald trump has never lived in a world of reality, which is why when you look at things like project 2025, you have to be scared of what you see in there. he's an extremist. and he wants to be a dictator. and it is hard to be a dictator when you got to face people face to face like a city does, a mayor does. so it will be very difficult to go from the biden administration that gives us direct access, i have, you know, somewhere around 8 to 10 people i can call daily at the white house or in that administration to what i heard in the trump administration of the past, you don't get access to these folks. and they don't really want to talk to democratic cities or mayors in general. so, being cut off from communication with the white house and federal funding is a fear of mine and a fear of many mayors. >> mr. mayor, in the meeting yesterday, three of your colleagues were given permission to ask a question of the president. he was asked three questions by the mayors, one on gun violence, the other was about the future

of democracy, and the third was how can mayors help the campaign. i'm wondering did immigration come up as an issue that was discussed with the president and what is the cost, if any, to atlanta of the burden of immigrants taking care of immigrants in atlanta and other american cities? >> during that call, no mayor asked any questions about immigration and so that didn't come up. a lot of the things you mentioned did come up around gun control, around the economy, around various issues that are very germane to mayors and cities. that did not come up and right now the city of atlanta received about $10 million directly from the federal government to support the immigration -- the migration that has occurred. ours hasn't been as broad or as large as we have seen in some other major cities. we received the funding we need to be able to handle 9 the

situation at hand. >> atlanta mayor andre dickens, thank you for coming on the show this morning. we appreciate it. >> thank you. all right. take care. and still ahead, the new documentary "america's burning" examines the causes for our widening political divisions. academy award winning actor michael douglas is an executive producer and narrator for the project and he joins us straight ahead on "morning joe." d he joit ahead on "morning joe. [both] because i said cologuard®! -hey there! -where did he come from? -yup, with me you can screen at home. just talk to your provider. [both] we'll screen with cologuard and do it my way. cologuard is a one-of-a-kind way to screen for colon cancer that's effective and non-invasive. it's for people 45+ at average risk, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your provider for me, cologuard. here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein,

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coming up, a new documentary explores the roots of hate and division in america's current political climate. it is narrated by oscar award winning actor michael douglas. and he and director david smith join us next with a preview of "america's burning." "morning joe" will be right back. "morning joe" will be right back n my way.

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democracies are fragile. they fail when people stop believing in their common destiny. why is this happening? there are many reasons for today owes division. the one sullivan mentioned is economic. >> the traditional route to wealth and success has been cut off for many americans. >> capitalism has become an insider's club, giant multi-national corporations under both parties are killing the american dream. >> this was supposed to be the land of opportunity. >> the middle class is shrinking and weakening economically. >> where is the dignity in realizing that you're about a payment away from being evicted? >> a look at the new documentary "america's burning." the film examines the connection between the united states economy and the future of democracy, arguing a system of capitalism run amok is partly to blame for a widening political divisions. joining us now is the executive

producer and narrator you heard, academy award winning actor michael douglas and the writer and director of the project david smick. great to have you here. >> good morning. >> the man who lost no one on an academy award saying greed is good is the one narrating this film. what brought to you this project? >> watching over the years how things were getting more divisive and vitrioloic and longer than the persons running for office and then david smick was kind enough to introduce me to his project that he was writing, and i thought that this was a very interesting point, really crucial about how economics is playing such an important role. it's not talked about enough, and i was very, very happy to do it, proud to do it. >> david, where do you trace the things of things beginning to run amok which is the game being rigged for the wealthies and for

thes have and not lifting up everyone with it? >> part of this is personal. i grew up in baltimore, blue collar baltimore, as we call it. blue collar neighborhood. my next door neighbor drove a cement truck and my best friend's father was a plummer and he's a plumber. i've lived in two worlds and i've set up a company for financial advisers for some of the best traders in the world. george soros was my first client and i'm living in this dual world, and it dawned on me that we've had an experience of wealth creation, 40 years, which is the envy of the world, and yet only half the country has been able to participate. the half that owns stocks because the wealth has been distributed via the equity markets, and so if you're a wage earner, you have -- you barely kept up. and i'll give you two figures and then stop, but if you -- we

were just talking about it. if you look at the stock market, the dow from 1980 to the present, 3,800% increase. we should be -- the rest of the world sen vious. they wish they had that. the only problem if you look at wages, real wages, according to the st. louis fed, you're talking about a total of 16%, so i can't get that out of my mind. i mean, we're giving all these explanations for why we're divided as a country, and very few people talk about economics, and the difference with me is i don't think there's an alternative to capitalism. this is not -- bernie sanders went that direction. we have to fix capitalism. we have to -- we to invite half of the country to be -- to have a ticket to the party. >> you know, michael, listening to david and his roots, i come from a long line of plumbers,

but we somehow seem to run away from the class distinctions in this country created by the wealth gap. i mean, there's a specific group of people and families in america who carry the load in iraq and afghanistan fighting for america. there's a specific group of people in this country who got absolutely crushed in 2008 by the collapse of the economy and are still on their knees trying to get back up on their feet. do we know, do you think, do you know who we are as a country, as a people? >> well, we know how important the middle class is. i did a series a while ago playing ben franklin and discovered really that ben franklin was sort of the founder of the middle class in this world, and we have lost it. it's decreasing, and it's not rising up. it's going down. middle class used to be something you were proud about. you could afford your kids going to school.

you had a living. would you take a holiday and a vacation and now the middle class is struggling paycheck to paycheck, so i think that's the issue that david is speaking about, and we have to increase the hourly wages to a degree. i remember in my lifetime the first time somebody was a billionaire. now you've got a contingent of groups that own over $100 billion. these are numbers that are just staggering, and i think we should really have to address it because it's getting out of whack. >> david, this actually is an optimistic film. people should understand that. let's watch a clip where you hear people who still believe in this dream and about america's future. >> look, and this is the polyanna in me. people are fundamentally good. people hurt for each other. america is a good example. there's no country on this earth more philanthropic than america.

>> they believe in the american people. we all have our politics. we all have our hates and you're fears, and deep down there is a love of country that i think prevails. >> every time i hear that the american dream is fading, i look at the latino community. we're making progress. maybe not as fast as we want. maybe not as good as we want, but we're making progress. >> so you say, david, we can do it again. we can save the middle class. >> larry summers is in the film, and he makes a very persuasive argument that we have a history of resilience. we botched civil rights. we came back. we have a history of resilience in so many area, and we can do it again if we -- but what bothers me right now is we are so fixated on the current situation so we have this -- we have these two candidates, but we have these issues.

let's call them x, y and z. on january 20th one of these guys is going to win, and we're still going to have x, y and z there. we're not digging deep. we're not looking at the root causes of how we got into this mess. why we hate each other so much, and so i'm -- this -- this film is an attempt to you either dig deep or a 30,000 foot observation, but that's part of the reason to get to us think long term what kind of america we love. >> i do love, michael, that this film is really for 980% of americans who don't hate each other, who aren't screaming on tv, on social media. we are the country that ken langone is describing there. we are the country that leon panetta describes. has that been your experience and the country giving you the life that you have? >> it's extraordinary. my brother is on the other side

of the ticket. we don't talk to each other anymore. the divisiveness has become ridiculous, and it's really an issue of party before country, and i would really hope with this lead-up that we have find those things that bring us together and solve this economic question because i think that will ease up a lot of the pressure. >> amen to that. the new documentary is called "america's burning." it opens in theaters nationwide on friday and you can visit america'sburningfilm.com for locations. executive producer and natator michael douglas and writer and director david smick. congratulations. thank you. that does it for us. we'll be right back here tomorrow morning. ana cabrera picks up the coverage in just one minute. a ce coverage in just one minute. tsi. the "help protect your privacy" store. and the "give your business a real street address" store. so while you're juggling everything else like the boss you are,

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