thanks for spending time with us. you can always find me @arimelber.com or sign up for my newsletter. uplifting things about art moving beyond politics or just join me tomorrow at 6:00 p.m. eastern. i'm with you for the week. that does it for us. "the reidout" starts now. ♪♪ tonight on "the reidout" -- >> today nato is more powerful than ever. it's good that we're stronger than ever.

because this moment in history calls for our collective strength. >> i didn't know what the hell nato was too much before, but it didn't take me long to figure it out, like about two minutes. >> right now, world leaders are arriving at the white house for tonight's nato dinner hosted by president biden. and as biden shows actual leadership on the world stage in the face of a democratic party meltdown, donald trump was showing his ignorance about nato and just about everything else in his latest unhinged performance. also tonight, the rise of christian nationalism. insurrection champion josh hawley says he's advocating it and trump's allies are planning to infuse christian nationalism into a second trump administration. ♪♪ but we begin tonight with a deep dive into what donald trump and his sycophants have planned for the department of justice under project 2025. and how they would use the doj to attack american citizens. the 28-page section of the

project's manifesto covering the department of justice and the fbi is a nightmarish play by play on how to turn the doj into the office of vengeance. but first, you should understand who's behind this horror show. this section was written by someone named gene hamilton, who is one of the roughly 30 former senior trump administration officials who authored project 2025. hamilton is currently the legal director of america first legal, the legal wing of the maga movement run by aficionado and former trump stephen miller, the muslim ban. according to hamilton and the folks at the heritage foundation, the department of justice would no longer be independent in a second trump administration. on page 559, hamilton writes while the supervision of litigation is a doj responsibility, the department falls under the direct supervision and control of the president of the united states

as a component of the executive branch. thus, and putting aside skrl prosecutions that can warrant different treatment, litigation decisions must be made consistent with the president's agenda. so just to be clear, a man who was found liable for sexual abuse, a man who tried to steal the 2020 election through a violent clue, a man who stole classified documents and shared our secrets to random supporters, a man who has repeatedly extolled the virtues of vengeance would direct litigation priorities a the department of justice. let's say a bunch of doj officials chose to object to a president trump ordering the assassination of a political opponent and threaten a mass resignation, well, project 2025 has a plan for that, too. they say, quote, the department's leadership is prepared to impose appropriate disciplinary action as circumstances arise. those are the big ticket items.

but there are the other very specific things they have in store for us all. like, deciding what investigations the fbi can conduct. how to use federal laws to prosecute state and local crimes, superseding state officials. recommending initiating legal action against local district attorneys who disagree with trump's criminalization policies. vigorously restricting voting access, ending consent decrees, enforcing the national abortion ban that's already on the books and ending affirmative action discrimination, which is a cute way of demonizing civil rights. and guess what, the fbi will become trump's own personalized armed enforcement service, according to project 2025. the fbi is not independent and does not deserve to be treated as if it were. you may doubt they really want to do this or even if they do do it, that you'll be safe. well, that is where you are entirely wrong.

trump already tried to prosecute hillary clinton. the clinton foundation and james comey, but his previous white house counsel advised against its. and department of justice career officials failed to find a crime. let's not forget his doj literally locked up michael cohen for cooperating in the investigation of trump and writing a book he didn't like. imagine what they could do with a department full of people who have literally chanted lock her up. there would be targets on the backs of people like congresswoman liz cheney, congressman benny thompson and any other member of the january th committee. just this morning, trump accused speaker nancy pelosi of failing to do her job and protecting the capitol from his supporters on january 6th. he said it was criminal. yesterday, in a live -- trump called for the prosecution of, quote, election fraudsteres, including mark zuckerberg. stating that they will be sent to prison for long periods of time. and what does that mean for you? well, you won't have access to

abortion. police will have free reign to beat up and kill people without consequences. you, could be prosecuted for minor drug possession. and they will be enforcing the death penalty, aggressively. god speed if you're a migrant because they have detailed plans for you which include national raids and prison camps. joining me now is melissa murray, co-host of the strict scrutiny podcast and ruth, new york university professor of history and author of "strongmen" mussolini to the present. thank you both for being here. anything i missed in there and anything else we should be concerned about for the average american with that kind of doj? >> that was a really comprehensive list and really does cover most of the 900 pages of project 2025, which is essentially the authoritarian's play book. one point that i do want to mention here, though, is that the supreme court's decision on presidential immunity, announced just a week ago, has really given a major assist to project

2025. one of the things that that decision made very clear is that when the president is communicating with the doj or issuing orders through the doj, because the doj is viewed as an extension of the executive, of the president, those actions are immunized. project 2025 ramps this up, puts it on steroids, makes it impossible, essentially, to prosecute the president or indeed anyone working through the doj for those acts because they are official acts within the perimeter of those official duties. it takes the unitarian executive theory and amps it up and makes the president essentially a king. so the court has laid a foundation to make project 2025 not just palpable but indeed something that will last and be lasting throughout our history of donald trump is president. >> and ruth, how would it be different from say russia or china or any other authoritarian country? >> not much in that the -- you

know, the very definition of authoritarianism is when the executive branch overwhelms or politicizes or you know, hinders from being independent judiciary, the other branchs of government and so -- but what's interesting is all the parts of the project 2025 work together because you also have to have a compliant civil service because, you know, fascists and authoritarians have to destroy to create. they need to take apart the doj as an independent body and make it into something else. that something is a body that will protect the president and his cronies from investigations, from prosecution, but it's not enough for the president to have immunity, you have to have a compliant civil service. so there we have the presidential -- the training academy that's going to create what they call an army. they use that word, of vetted,

conservatives to go to work on day one. and so, all of these things have to come together. when you have a politicized civil service and in the nazi context the desk killers. the people who signed the orders to harass and repress people and, of course, later, you know, in the german context to do the holocaust. but, these -- all these things must come into play. and the last thing that you must do is turn the public against the press, against journalists, so that any claims they make about prosecution, things that might be worthy of prosecution are no longer believed by the public. and donald trump has already been able to do that. >> yeah. and then maybe just start arresting members of the press. let me play something that is in a way funny and absurd but actually deadly serious in another way. this is stephen miller's america first legal organization. this is one of their

advertisements. >> i'm here today with an urgent message. america's biggest corporations and universities are illegally discriminating against americans based on race and sex. these corporations and universities have adopted so-called diversity, equity and inclusion policies that punish americans for being white, asian or male. if you or a loved one were denied a job, raise, promotion or professional opportunity as a result of diversity, equity, affirmative action or other racial preferences, we want to hear from you. >> melissa, it's sort of one part ambulance chaser ad and one part nwawp legal defense fund, right? but what he's doing there is what they -- the civil rights division of the justice department would change into, right? a place where the whole mission would be to defend white privilege. >> that's exactly right, joy. obviously enforcement priorities

shift from administration to administration and we've seen, for example, under republican administrations there's been less enforcement of voting rights, for example, less prosecution of voting rights claims. but project 2025 explicitly says that the office of civil rights within the department of justice and the office of civil rights within the department of education will be dedicated to dealing with what they call reverse discriminations. and dei measures, incorporate america and public institutions and in universities and colleges. basically the real racism to be fought is the racism and the racial injuries that are endured by white men, principally, and those who are outside of what they view as the affirmative action spectrum. >> yeah. and let's go on to the sort of apologist. people who are trying, ruth, to make this sound like it's not this big of a deal. bloomberg is reporting that the ceo of warner brothers has said regarding the presidential election, asked about the upcoming presidential election it mattered less to him which party means as long as the next

president is business. we need a opportunity for deregulation so companies can consolidate and do what we need to do better. they would be fine with having trump. but i just want to remind others the way this works in a country like russia, we would be no different from that, the kremlin has said that stable in a russian prison hospital. we're not sure that is true. a russian play right and theater director was sentenced to prison for writing a play that putin didn't like. and russia has issued an arrest warrant for the widow of alexny navalny who they killed or allowed to die. that's how it goes, suddenly they don't like -- donald trump doesn't like what david saz has on his networks, somebody who is living like the navalnys. >> yeah. but it's way beyond that because, you know, he could say, well, i'm not a dissident.

but, putin's state is kleptocracy, to various degrees most authoritarian states thrive on corruption. by 2018, one out of six of every six russian business person, if their business was prospering the state would come after it, either seize its assets or make money because they would fabricate some tax charge, crime and so they pray on businesses. in erdogan's turkey, the same, the state has plundered and seized assets worth over $40 billion since the 2016 coup attempt, and so, authoritarianism is not good for business. it is the -- often the small businessmen as well as big corporations that come in for the equivalent of hostile takeovers, especially if they're in entertainment or the media, that's what putin did and that's

what orban has done, too. the media including big properties is 85% domesticated now. so these people are misinformed and they're living in a world of illusions if they think that they're going to be safe with these plans at the scale at which trump wants to enact them. >> i will not only did trump earn $1.6 billion while president. mar-a-lago has become the center for the far right and cash machine for trump since he left the white house. trump's d.c. hotel in office raked in $3.7 million from foreign offices while he was in office. political groups spent more than 3 million in trump's d.c. hotel. but now what's happening is that you've got republicans cozying up to donald trump by spending at his hotel they know that's the way to please him and what would happen. melissa, the last word on this. donald trump's threats to jail people like mark zuckerberg, we should take that seriously,

right? doesn't have to have a real charge. he could just do it? >> again, the takeover of the doj makes all of this much more likely to happen than not. again, by redirecting the doj by eliminating the traditional independence that separated the doj from the executive. you basically have the department of justice, the fbi, all of those agencies within that sphere working on the -- it is an arm of the oval office. >> and none of these crimemy friends of his or he himself would have to r worry about being prosecuted against. look how magical that is. thank you both very much. up next on "the reidout," one of the candidates for president is out there ranting about a fictional serial killer and rambling about golf challenges, he is not the one whose party is melting down over his candidacy weirdly enough. more on that after the break. more on that after the break ya know, if you were cashbacking you could earn on everything with just one card. chase freedom unlimited. so, if you're off the racking... ...or crab cracking, you're cashbacking.

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donald trump emerged from playing golf, it would seem to give a totally unhijed unhinged rally in florida. >> i'm officially challenging crooked joe to an 18-hole golf match right here. we don't eat bacon anymore. no more. did anyone ever see the lovely movie "silence of the lambs." did you hear of hannibal lecter? he would love to hear you for dinner. i didn't know what nato was.

didn't take me too long. yes oh yes quickly says president trump. yes oh yes. >> even after that incoherent speech no republicans calling it bad. the democratic meltdown over president biden continues of haste. >> i just think the, the -- this race is on a trajectory that is very worrisome. i think that we could lose the whole thing. >> right now we're on a path to losing. when your tragedy isn't working, you can't just double down on the strategy. >> it's gotten so bad that james carville, the democratic strategist largely credited with is the economy stupid, bill clinton's 1992 campaign is now proposing in an op-ed not millions but two democrats should choose a new nominee. writing that with less than 120 days to go before the election, democrats should throw some cool

town halls. forget the delegates and the 16 million primary voters and just recruit former presidents barack obama and bill clinton to select biden''s replacement. what's up, dog. no paula? joining me now is seen juror adviser to the 2020 biden/harris campaign and rick wilson, co-founder of lincoln project and host of enemy's podcast. now we're in silly season. i don't think people understand that there are actually rules in the democratic party. and that the way you choose the election is that -- it's not that way. you don't throw american idol contest and then have two people pick. let me play what james carville had to say. >> i'm just telling you it's inevitable. he will come to the conclusion. people will get the message to him. he will understand. his family will understand.

they'll pray on it and make the right decision. i'm just trying to stimulate what we're doing right now. to have a conversation about the future. >> is this, in your view, the smartest way to have a conversation and stimulate a conversation about the future? >> listen, i think we have a lot that democrats need to be talking about right now, the existential crisis on the other side which you led into the segment with. it's frustrating for voters to feel as though their concerns haven't been heard. a lot of the ways in which we're having this in-fighting publicly is making both sides dig their heels in and double down and we look just as crazy as the other side, quite frankly. and it's disengaging voters who quite frankly one thing we're not talking about, young voters, black voters, a lot of voters who already had concerns, showing up in the polls in 2024, and so, i think democrats, the elites, the ones on cable news talking all the time, actually need to think about the issues

and think about what it is that voters want and have an open conversation with them about their frustrations. a lot of the frustrations were before the debates. those exacerbating them. how do we have both of those conversations at the same time and stop berating one another and becoming a reality show like the other side. >> yeah. it's embarrassing. let me play chuck schumer. here is chuck schumer's new quotes from today. oh, i'm sorry. i apologize. my bad. i'll read it. privately signaling to donors open to a democratic presidential ticket that isn't led by president biden. schumer has been listening to donor's ideas and suggestions about the best way forward for the party according to three people familiar with what the senate leader has said. hakeem jeffries the upcoming leader in the house, the minority leader, we're having conversations with ourselves. it's a family discussion. that's important. we're a separate and coequal branch of government. we have the right an responsibility on behalf of the people rerepresent to have our conversations with ourselves on

the path forward. that's a change from what he said before. rick wilson, we have george clooney saying biden has to go. and then, he's like -- he wasn't as up to speed as he used to be and i know there were some issues amal clooney had on her gaza stuff happening. you have hollywood moguls of all kinds jumping in and saying things. op-ed writers have fun ideas. what strikes me about this that is weird is when richard nixon, who was a crook, was driven out of the party in the 1970s, he was given more dignity by his party, barry gold water went to him, came out that he gone to him privately we want to spare you the indignity of an impeachment. you need to step down before that happens. a deal was cut to be pardoned by gerald ford. he was given more dignity than democrats are giving their own sitting president who has done nothing much for them except

give them a giant infrastructure bill, paid off student loans, give them $35 insulin. not given them anything to run on and not benefitting from that. that's supposed to benefit them. they need the cook political report to re-do their rankings. and they're like, destroy him. publicly. if they want him to go, isn't there a more dignified way for democrats to maybe behave than to publicly humiliate him. >> joy, this is an example of the difference in the two parties that as a former republican i can tell you if donald trump tomorrow said i'm a cannibal, i love to eat live babies. i barbecue them at mar-a-lago everyday, every single republican would say it's the new fashionable meat. this is what we should all be doing. they would get in lock step. here is why they have a political power house in that unity and that loyalty. is they understand that this is a race that matters.

if democrats think right now their going to have some baroque, bizarre world, candidates switch, flip-flop, they're overlooking two things. joe biden had 14 million democratic voters come out and vote for him in the primary this year. he has all the delegates at the convention. it's not my job to tell joe biden what to do. it's my job and should be everyone's job in the democratic party right now to turn their fire on the one person who will destroy them and the country. donald trump. every single day i wake up and go, what is the best and highest use of my time and my time is best used taking an iron pipe to donald trump's kneecaps. it is best for everyone to remember that if you play this game out past the convention, you will have given donald trump a two-month vacation where he works in on his golf game as democrats sit in a circular firing squad. this has got to stop. the unity -- look, at the end of the day, whether the candidate is joe biden or kamala harris or some guy from behind the bus

station, we're running against a guy who will destroy this country by implementing his project 2025 blueprint. no matter how much donald trump says he didn't do project 2025, it has his revolting dna all over it. this is a guy who if we don't focus on the fact that this is a race against donald trump, a referendum in this country against donald trump, we are going to end up with four more years of donald trump. this is something -- i hope my democratic friends and allies and colleagues will wake the hell up and understand that no matter what your inner party dispute about joe biden is right now, you better turn the machine back on and attack trump every minute, every day, every hour without stop. >> amen. and the other piece -- the last thing i'll say and give you the last word, i think we think alike, even though we come from different ideological spectrum. there's a process and is there a way for donors and thought leaders and people who write

op-eds to force biden out? because isn't this something that behind the scenes one would do more -- would do more efficiently? because there's a process. >> yeah. you would think so. you would think that we would work through the process, right? and have this conversation at the convention and behind closed doors as what rick is saying. we fall in line in public. right? but the thinking i think here is that folks know we love joe biden, president biden. and he digs his heels in and so folks are believing this pressure campaign will work. but it only makes our party platform weak when there's so many things that we need to do to pull all these voters over the line in november. >> yep. and by the way, you know who no one is asking to write an op-ed, the people whose job it is to actually turn out voters. maybe y'all should ask the people whose job it is to turn out voters, what to do? you know, hollywood celebs they're good at lots of things. they turn out vote people?

i'll book them on. you ain't wrong, brother. thank you all. coming up, republicans aren't trying to hide their extreme agenda. senator josh hawley outright calling america is a christian nation. and he's advocating for christian nationalism. that's next. ating for christian nationalism. that's next. u take charge of your health. centrum gives every body a healthy foundation. supporting your - oops - energy, immunity and metabolism. and yours too! you did it! plus try centrum silver, now clinically proven to support memory in older adults. ed gutters. now clinically proven call leaffilter today. and never clean out clogged gutters again. leaffilter's technology keeps debris out of your gutters for good. guaranteed. call 833.leaf.filter today, or visit leaffilter.com. when you purchase a pair of bombas socks, tees, or underwear, you also donate one to someone facing homelessness.

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we've talked about the embrace of religious fervor on the religious right. i mean, on the american right. and why it is dangerous. the republican party in this era of donald trump has allowed a small fringe white christian nationalist movement to control the way the party and much of this country operates. and so now, proud christian nationalists are having their moment, not just creeping into the cultures but seeking to revamp and define it. charlie kirk, professional troll and founder of turning point usa embraces christian nationalism and says things like, christians need to view the election as a spiritual struggle to save western civilization and that trump is crucial to restoring morality in america. right. the convicted felon, sexual abuser equals morality, the kind of stuff that makes your brain hurt because it makes no sense. then, there's the interesting choice by the new york times to platform a far right christian extremist musings why he doesn't vote, which is code for, hey,

maybe you shouldn't vote. matthew wallther writes, why does anyone vote. i ask myself. the answer, cannot be that we believe that by doing so we will influence the outcome of an election. no. actually that's exactly why i vote and why everyone votes. as it turns out, though, "the new york times" has since made a correction after internet sleuths pointed out that this op-ed writer did in the two most recent election cycles, wait for it, vote. not voting, of course, means choosing a devastating agenda for lgbtq people, women and girls, brown and black people, basically anyone who doesn't look like charlie kirk or matthew walther. that is exactly what these statements under the guise of christianity or bad opinion headlines are really about. these guys are everywhere writing creepy op-eds about taylor swift letting down america by not being married with kids or giving commencement speeches. the scarier ones are those that would run the country, offices

on capitol hill, like senator josh hawley, first pumper, insurrectionist and missouri republican who assured the national conservative conference that he is a christian nationalist. >> i'm sure some will say i'm calling america a christian nation. so i am. and some will say that i'm advocating christian nationalism. and so i do. >> what a little phony. >> marjorie taylor greene said it during a turning point usa conference in florida, quote, we need to party of nationalism and i'm a christian and i say it proudly we should be national christians. >> i'm tired of this separation of church and state junk. the republican party is openly embracing the ideology and project 2025 wants to make it part of the next administration. politico reported that influential think tank close to

donald trump is developing plans to infuse christian nationalist ideas into his administration. spearheading the effort is russell vought. has remained close to him. vought cited as potential chief of staff in a second trump administration is president of the center for renewing america, a leading think tank in the conservative consortium preparing for a second trump term. he is also an adviser to project 2025. the dangerous agenda we have been highlighting that would usher in one of the most conservative executive branchs in modern american history. he isn't the one with the creepiest agenda. a wisconsin pastor who is calling for churches to form militias who says being gay should be a crime and who defends the murder of abortion providers. once so fringe he remained in the background. his book is now being, quoted, by politicians and former trump

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i'm 62 now and i'm, you know, in the time that i've lived our country has been on this trajectory downhill. murdering their own sons and daughters through abortion, how depraved can you be. mutilating your own sons and daughters, the ones that are born that you haven't murdered,

we are a wicked country. and we have a wicked government. and we need to call men and our government to repentance. >> that's pastor matt truehella from the mercy seat christian church in milwaukee two years ago was thought of so extreme that two different state chapters from right to life condemned him for calling churches to form militias. today, pastor matt finds himself at the center of more mainstream maga politics crucially providing justification for some of the far right dystopian policies and causes. his story detailed in must read is example of a sharp right turn for republican priorities just 118 days before the election. which includes elevating a pastor who says homosexuality should be treated as a crime, defends the murder of abortion providers and government officials have the devine right and duty to defy any laws or

court opinions that violate what he calls the law of god. joining me now is the investigative reporter who wrote that story, thank you for being here. this guy sounds frankly a bit insane. it sounds very hand maid's tale. where did he come from and what does he want to do to this country? >> so he comes from the anti-abortion movement, the rescue movement of the '90s and early 2000s where people were blockaing clinics. and he had i would say an international reputation, certainly a national reputation for the anti-abortion militantism back several decades ago. in 2013 he wrote a book taking up the 16th century protestant doctrine and using it to argue, as you said, that government officials today in america have a god-given right and duty to defy, law, policy, court opinion

that they believe violates god's law. and since that book came out, the rise of the tea party, the rise of trump and maga, he has been increasingly embraced by republicans on the right from school board members to county commissioners, state lawmakers, governors all the way up to former trump officials. and pastor's goal it's really important to note is that he wants a theocracy and very particular type of theocracy under a strict interpretation of his interpretation of biblical law that emphasizes the old testament and so, as you said, death penalty for lgbtq people. and he tones down his message when he comes and talks to local county groups, county republican parties and not extreme as he is in his writings or church services on sundays. >> he also doesn't believe women should be in politics at all, women should simply be in the home and they shouldn't -- he sort of got a taliban view of

women, yeah? >> women in government to him is sickening and perverse. those are both quotes, almost as sickening as perverse as sitting under the headship of a female pastor. when i started writing the story, people were posting my screen shot -- my screen shots of my head shot saying, quote unquote, matriarchal hell because i was a woman reporting this story. >> of course. i'll note that propublica, in your reporting, you've talked about former president trump's national security adviser michael flynn the one who got messing with the fbi the russians. how to successfully reduce tyranny. jenna ellis, former trump campaign lawyer cited as a solution to government overreach in her 2015 book calling for biblical interpretation of the constitution. the polling is very clear, republicans believe that the bible should have a fulsome influence on the laws of the united states. two thirds of republicans

believe that. they think 33% a great deal some. democrats do not believe that. sharp divide here. so this is become part of the mantra of the party, right? what he thinks is fairly normal in the republican party. >> well, i spoke to people, republicans who were around in the '90s an 2000s for this story to get a sense of what that reputation was back then. some of them said no way, why are you reporting this story now. this guy sounds very fringe. republican party has hosted him twice where he has talked about succession openly and post his book on their website and promote it. it says very clearly that the laws of the nation should reflect the laws of god. and so, you know, walk shaw county is the heart of republican politics in very electoral state in wisconsin. and so, i think this reflects sort of larger fracturing and infighting we see in the republican party where there are

maga folks and people openly embracing christian nationalism and other folks saying that doesn't quite mean -- that's not quite what conservatism means. but certainly he is far more mainstream than extremism researchers who started tracking him 30 years ago ever thought possible. >> excellent reporting. this is a must-read piece. i hope everyone will read it on propublica. well done. thank you very much. and coming up, nato leaders have arrived at the white house for a dinner in their honor as the high-stakes nato summit highlights the contrasting views of biden and trump with trump admitting he barely knew what nato was when he was elected. that's next. hen he was elected that's next. power e*trade's award-winning trading app makes trading easier.

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right now in washington president biden and the first lady are hosting world leaders as they close out day two of the nato summit with a white house dinner. it comes after a busy day of high-stakes meetings for the president. earlier today biden welcomed allies, held a meeting with the british prime minister and participated in a working session where he spoke about the importance of unity in the strength of the alliance. >> this pledge sends an unmistakable message to the world that every nato member is committed to doing their part to keep the alliance strong. we can and will defend every inch of nato territory and we

will do it together. >> but looming over all of this is donald trump and the fear that someone who incited our enemies, praise to dictators and said he would encourage russia to do whatever they want in a nato member country that didn't pay enough, could potentially return to the white house. joining me now is the former supreme allied commander of nato. he is the chief international analyst for nbc news. it is always a pleasure, admiral. let me play for you as a contrast, we just heard president biden. here is donald trump last night. >> i didn't know what nato was before, but it didn't take me long to figure out. like two minutes and the first thing i figured out as they are not paying. i say you have to pay her bills. they say sir, can i ask you a question? if we don't pay our bills will you protect us from russia?

i said you mean you are delinquent? they said yes, let's say we are delinquent. will you protect us? i said, no i will not protect you from russia. >> why ever would nato members fear that? >> it is so outrageous. he thinks that nato is some kind of protection racket where the united states demands a certain amount of money and then we provide protection. it is like he would say as a mafia boss to a small country, hey, you've got a nice little country here. it would be terrible if something happened to it. you know this, that is not how nato works. it is an alliance. we all contribute together and can i do the numbers for a minute? the united states has the largest defense budget in the world. second largest defense budget in the world, the europeans, collectively. their collective defense budget is bigger than china and

secondly they share our values of democracy and third and finally, we, the united states, 25% of the world's gross domestic product. europe is another 25%. so when you put us together it is money, guns, lawyers, values, we really want to be in this alliance. it is not a protection racket. donald trump needs to go to school on nato. >> the last time article 5 was used, it was used for us after 9/11 when nato countries came to our aid and died for us in afghanistan. there is this washington post reporting that nato is moving to trump proof the alliance. what does that mean and how could they do that? >> what they are talking about is simply raising their defense budgets and i agree with that. currently the goal for all nato countries is to spend 2% of

gross domestic product on defense. 23 of the 32 countries are currently doing that. they all need to get there. the reason they are rising in their contributions is not because of donald trump and his threats, it is because of vladimir putin. they're waking up to the challenges on their eastern border and i want to go back to something you said a moment ago. the only time this alliance has been activated in combat is when we were attacked after 9/11 and i commanded the alliance for four years. i signed hundreds of letters of condolence to the nations of nato, not from the united states, whose sons and daughters died in afghanistan because we were attacked. they contributed blood and treasure. we ought to cherish them. this is a valuable alliance.

>> indeed. let me play ukraine's president zelenskyy and what he said about our upcoming election in november. >> now everyone is waiting for november. americans are waiting for november and europe, middle east, in the pacific, the whole world is looking to november. and truly speaking, putin awaits november, two. it is time to make strong decisions work. to act and not to wait for november or any other month to this end. we must be strong and uncompromising. >> what happens to that brave young man and his country of donald trump becomes president and you know makes good on his threats?

>> can i say i love zelenskyy? this guy stood up and delivered for his nation, for nato, for the alliance against putin. we ought to cherish zelenskyy. what happens if trump is elected is not a good thing. trump has been pretty clear that he does not value their fierce loyalty, their fierce courage and i, for one, hope that whoever is elected, they will stand behind zelenskyy. i worry if it is donald trump. >> he could not possibly value courage, because he doesn't have it and when you don't have it yourself it is hard to value it in somewhere in -- in someone else. that is me saying that. retired admiral james stavridis, one of our favorites, thanks so much, sir. that is tonight's "reidout". "all in with chris hayes" starts w.