it couldn't. >> reporter: tom costello, nbc news washington. >> and we are hoping for a safe return as soon as possible. and on that note, folks, i wish you a very good night. i'm in for stephanie ruhle who will be back tomorrow. you can catch me on saturday and sunday mornings on my show with my cohost on the weekend. from all of of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thank you so much for staying up late and i'll see you this weekend. for the last two weeks, donald trump has been kind of quiet. kind of it.

he is keeping a low profile. then last night, donald trump got back on the mic. >> a waitress came over. a beautiful waitress. and i never talk liking about physical. she is beautiful inside. because you never talk about a person's looks. ever. you never mention. the other day i got very angry. some man called chris christie fat and i said sir, and then he said he was a pig. i said sir. chris christie is not a fat pig. please remember that. he is not a fat pig. take it back and the guy is looking like me. no, we have to defend people. you can't call people fat. i said about nine times he is not a fat pig. >> trump veered wildly from topic to topic saying i would never say the thing i'm about to say. to both object few a objectify

a service worker and attack an opponent. that moment is a good reminder of the character and temperament of donald trump and a reminder of what trump did to the republican party. chris christie used to be considered a rising star. he was a popular republican governor who managed to get reelected in a blue state. but chris christie refused to bend the knee to donald trump and now he is a pariah. trump demands absolute loyalty. and dissenters have a choice. they can be humiliated by trump or one day humiliate themselves. most of trump's rivals choose the second option. trump's most influential opponent in the 2024 republican primary was former governor nikki haley. trump called her a bird brain. he insulted her husband's military service. and he made thinly veiled racist comments about her indian heritage. two months ago, nikki haley said she would vote for donald trump.

and this week, she announced she would be turning over her delegates at the republican national convention to donald trump. another act of submission and personal humiliation. trump's second biggest rival for the nomination was florida governor ron desantis. trump referred to him as meat ball ron. and after rumors began swirling that desantis wore lifts in his shoes, trump decided to compare desantis to a quote ten-year- old girl walking around in her mother's heels. trump's superpac even released a 30-second ad of a fake desantis smearing his face in chocolate pudding based on an anonymous anecdote about governor desantis allegedly eating dessert with his fingers. the ad was called pudding fingers. the day ron desantis dropped out of the race, what did he do? he endorsed donald trump. today, we learned that governor desantis will be speaking at the republican national

convention in yet another act of fealty to donald trump. as well as an act of personal humiliation. a party where people who absolutely loathe their candidate who have been publicly humiliated and shamed by him must pledge to support him and they do. now compare that to the other major political party that despite its faults that does not use retribution. where people can voice dissent and do. today was yet another day of big developments in the democratic debate over whether president biden should remain the party's nominee. it began with nancy pelosi declining to say whether or not she believes president biden should still be running. >> it is up to the president to decide if he is going to run.

to make that decision, because time is running short. >> he has made the decision. he has said firmly this week, he is going to run. do you want him to run? >> i want him to do whatever he decides to do. and that is the way it is. >> not exactly a ringing endorse. the impact of her comments was released by a new op ed from actor and democratic donor george clooney. in the new york times, clooney wrote we are all so terrified by the prospect of a second trump term we have opted to ignore every warning sign. as democrats we collectively hold our breath, our turn down the volume when we see the president whom we respect walk off air force one or walk back to a mic to answer an unscripted question. is it fair to point out these

things? it has to be. this is about age. nothing more. but also nothing that can be reversed. we are not going to win in november with this president. on top of that, the past 24 hours has seen a flood of concern from democratic senators. >> i'm deeply concerned about joe biden winning this november. >> i'm very concerned. >> this race is on a trajectory that is very worrisome. i think that we could lose the whole thing. >> and then there was this, from the only sitting democratic senator to have ever been on a presidential ticket. >> i have complete confidence that joe biden would do the patriotic thing from the country. and he is going to make that

decision. he never disappointed me. >> tonight, peter welch became the first democrat in the senate to publicly call for president biden to step aside. two additional members of the house, pat ryan and earl blumenaur called for the same. biden must not stay at the top of the ticket. whatever the outcome here, it is clear that these calls are making the biden campaign concerned. politico reports the biden campaign has been calling colleged delegates to the democratic national convention to make sure they still support biden and they are discovering cracks in that coalition. it is clear the democratic party is not united but what is lost in the dems are in disarray headlines is these disagreements are in a way a feature and not a bug. they are a sign of a party that has not given up on the small

democratic principle of open and respectful debate. they are a sign of a party with a very large tent and with lots of ideas and with a whole lot of energy. one of the central challenges we face as a country is proving that democracies can hold their own in a world where authoritarianism is on the rise. and that is also the challenge for the democratic party. right at this very moment. to prove to the country and to the world that a system where people can respectfully voice their disagreement is capable of producing the best outcomes for everyone. joining me now are tim miller, writer at large for the bull work. and mark, staff writer at the atlantic. i wanted to talk to you about the semiemerging strategy in

the party. even though in a very clearly worded letter, two congressional democrats, the president said my decision is i'm staying in the race. is that, first of all, what do you make of that strategy and do you think it is going to be effective? >> well look. the senators that served over joe biden over what the most effective strategy is to encourage joe biden to do the right thing. in nato for the private entreaties might make more sense. that's possible. i will defer to them. i have never met joe biden. i met him one time in a picture line so i don't know joe biden

personally. what i could encourage them to do, everyone has been talking about this in the democratic party. is if he is going to stay in the race, which as he says he is, i would hope it would encourage him to have a much more forward leaning strategy toward targeting donald trump. it was just yesterday that we saw i think the first time the words project 2025 come out of the president's mouth. we have been talking about it since last year. you have been talking about it for months. the amount of things that donald trump is going to do that is a threat it is hard to focus on that right now. so i think part of that is because of the uncertainty and the big debate you are talking about. i agree there is some healthiness happening in the

debate. the campaign is not focusing on that and that creates frustration. >> i do want to talk. and i'm not suggesting that anyone knows what outreach is going to work with joe biden. but i do think that everyone can talk about how this moment is unfolding inside the party. and you know, it is clear that elected democrats who would like to see him depart the top of the ticket are not going to be aggressive but there are other people outside of the elected office who are being very clear about what they think should happen and you are one of those people, mark. this is from your piece in the atlantic. it is now obvious that president biden has in no way internalized the disaster toward which he is defiantly ambling or leading his party and his country. he seems fully indifferent to any consideration beyond his own withered pride and raging

ego. can you talk more. i am sensing frustration and anger on your part and i wonder if you could talk a little more about. you are seeing this as an inherent character flaw. not someone quietly personally deliberating about the best choice for the country. >> i will say this. compared to tim t i probably met president biden three or four times in the receiving line. a level of authority tim could never dream of. before we move on from elected officials, people get caught up in the body count, how many people have called for him to step aside. i think these very, very kind of hostage video like endorsements from all these senators and nancy pelosi and any number of other people are extremely damning. it reminds me of mitch mcconnell a few weeks after january 6th saying i will support the nominee.

a real bare minimum. really damning giving what we have been led to believe was some relatively affection they had for the president. yesterday, what is interesting about this is over the last two weeks, we have been told that the next 48 hours, the next 72 hours will be key. and you know, we are now two weeks in. and what's kind of happening here, biden never comes out. we had a stephanopoulos interview. but yeah, you would think that he would be in a matter of days just out in front of this whether it is to talk about project 2025 or something else but it seems like he is being led around by events and it seems with every passing day, democrats are getting more and more nervous and possibly moving away from him. >> do you think, mark, you mentioned the press conference, he will not be on a teleprompter but answering

questions live. they will be televised. we will have it on this network. could that be an inflection point in all of this? >> i think it is. as far as what this week will bring. i think it is going to be obviously a nato theme. both theoretically, a nato press conference. other leaders will be there. but clearly this is given over to questions about his fitness and age. he will get a lot of curve balls and it will be a really i guess in some ways a dramatic environment and challenge to his nimbleness and ability to think on his feet. he is not going to know what is coming. this will be the first test of how he is going to handle this. so yeah. democrats at least another week

or so will be locked into this. >> when you talk about the times of wasting aspect i believe the quote is it is already disastrous. one of the sources close to biden's campaign. the money has absolutely shut off. to the sources that they are on a path to be down in terms of fund raising members by possibly half. or much more from large donors alone. i wonder your assessment about how crippling this is to a campaign. >> i don't think the campaign ads are what is at stake. everybody has talked about it. not just on cable news but

sports talk an at barbecues. everyone is talking about this. this is not like the house race where people don't know the candidates. joe biden has been on tv in all of these states. running ads. while biden had a huge cash advantage in the spring. and early summer. while trump has not been running ads. and it is done basically nothing for him. like he is still behind in the polls. so to me, i don't think that is the problem here. the problem for the biden campaign is they don't have a clear message. they don't have a message resonating with people. he could get a lot more attention than any 30-second tv ad could get him. by going out tomorrow and banging donald trump over the head with a clear and crisp contrast message about why joe biden and not donald trump. and he didn't do that in the

george stephanopoulos interview or the debate and we haven't really seen it. since the debate. that is what is missing here, whether it is joe biden or somebody else, there would be a ton of attention. there is plenty to work with. so to me, that is the thing i would be worried about. >> have you worried about when trump was laying low, that he was trying to establish himself as a more norm core candidate by softening whatever perniciously the republican national platform on guns and abortion and saying i don't know anything about project 2025. are you worried at all that

works? >> i think it is working now but it doesn't have to work. we were out there saying trigger trump. it is so easy. troll him. right? remind people that the real crazy conspiratorial trump. if you just read his, he has been kind of quiet but sending crazy things on his social media about the evil susan glasser, he sends insane things every day if people just read them. there is plenty of time not just next week but after the democratic convention. to remind people how insane and extreme this man is. if there is a campaign and a candidate that are willing and able to do it. >> just a lot of crazy you can pack into 120 days. thank you guys for your time.

i appreciate it. coming up, kanye's ex- girlfriend, a bulldog. new details on the cast of characters slated to speak at the rnc next week. and what it tells us about trump's inner circle if he wins a second term. but first, what is really happening on capitol hill behind the scenes as president biden and his party try to figure out the future? that's coming up. that's coming up. what does a robot know about love? it takes a human to translate that leap in our hearts into something we can see and hold. etsy.

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have family discussions over president biden's political decision, hakeem jeffries has told worried lawmakers that he plans to relay their concerns directly to the president himself. president biden has spoken to a group of law mange makers including the black caucus that voiced support. there was reportedly tension among members who feel it was released without the group's complete buy-in. the president has spoken to certain individual lawmakers but as of now, he is not planning to call into a meeting with senate democrats tomorrow afternoon. instead, he plans to send his campaign chair and senior advisers to speak with the senators instead. joining me now is jackie allemany. a lot of us who don't cover the

hill are kind of confused about the dynamics. if there is a sort of engine for either the key biden in movement or take him out, it seems headquarters among the members of this party. i wonder if you think what transpired yesterday when it seemed the movement to oust biden had gone quiet an when nancy pelosi came on the network suggesting the deliberations were not over. >> yeah alex. it has certainly been an emotional roller coaster for these lawmakers especially in the house. as they have been really agonizing over this debacle in the weeks since joe biden was faltering and disastrous debate performance. but if the stakes couldn't have been higher, nancy pelosi raised them this morning with her comments on morning joe. they were subtle but deliberate and very precise and a very

significant reframing of a delicate but urgent conversation happening not just among lawmakers but everywhere in the party for democrats. but what pelosi really did was she sort of reframed this conversation. she is an institutionalist at the end of the day so her making these comments was highly significant, especially as a number of lawmakers who were privately grumbling about biden and his unwillingness to hear from members, hear their concerns firsthand and maybe reconsider his decision. this is someone they heard from who might now have opened the door for people to sort of have the flexibility to potentially change their minds when it comes to biden's performance thursday. there is a lot of talk on capitol hill about whether or not he is going to deliver a performance. and is going to finally allay a lot of the concerns that we are

seeing. and there is sort of an expeggation he is not going to be able to. what is the path forward? there is a feeling that the former speaker is now making the way, paving the way for lawmakers to have an exit ramp. >> do you have a sense of the sort of dynamics between the democrats in the house and the senate on this topic because up until literally a few hours ago when peter welch became the first senator to say biden shouldn't be at the top of the ticket, it had felt like typically the senate was taking a sort of moredlylative path on this. but that sort of seems to have flipped in the last 12 hours. calling for biden to step down and their pockets of support for biden among the black caucus and among the congressional house caucus. how are those dynamics playing

out? >> there is one commonality between the chambers, both have been feels like in the absence of robust communication and response that is satisfying to lawmakers in the house and in the senate. that they have lost even more confident in biden and the operation around him. they were expecting sort of the full court press individual calls out reach from biden and his team. they haven't seen that. one house aide told me today and this felt similarly in the senate, if one of the top leaders in the party called the white house switchboard and tried to get through to president biden, they are not sure anyone really could at this point in time. all of these concerns have been compounded on both chambers by the awful polling that lawmakers have seen in the few days. i don't think it is a surprise you have seen a handful of new york lawmakers in the house suddenly tweak their previous statements and change their minds. representative pat ryan came

out and the eighth or ninth lawmaker to ask biden to give up the ticket. this lack of communication is something that both sides are struggling for. struggling with. and i think there is also this dynamic of hakeem jeffries. and chuck schumer are dealing with as well. which is, there are still some divisions. there are still some members who feel like yes, joe biden is an imperfect candidate. but never impressive. and this is our lot. and by coming out publicly and continuing to criticize him, we are just making our electoral chances worse. we'll see, though, just how far those people are able to hold their ground within their caucuses. >> yeah. jackie, when you talk about holding their ground, it feels like the people we hear most from and again, it is sort of hedged conversations and hedged statements, are the people who appear skeptical of biden

staying at the top of the ticket. i'm struck by the lack of passionate support for this president given, especially what the white house says is a vast number of supporters out there for him. does that surprise you? >> it doesn't. i mean, i know we have talked a lot about this public versus this private conversation. but i will say overwhelmingly, my colleagues and i have spoken to dozens and dozens of lawmakers this week. and even ones who are upbeat publicly have articulated concerns in private. there is this resignation if joe biden stays the top of the ticket, he is facing defeat against president trump. as one senior aide told me we have no path to take back the house if biden stays at the top of the ticket. nancy pelosi lives and dies by the house and at the end of the

day, her priority is the house so she didn't feel democrats were in danger of missing the opportunity to recapture the house. i don't think we would be seeing this commentary and milk toast support from her. >> jackie, thank you. >> thanks alex. still ahead tonight, do you remember meatloaf? do you remember clint eastwood's speech to an empty chair? if you thought the last few republican nominating conventions were weird, just look at who is talking now. that's next. is talking now. that's next. what does a robot know about love? it takes a human to translate

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don't stay home in november. stand and speak and vote your conscience. vote for candidates up and down the ticket. who you trust to defend our freedom and be faithful to the constitution. >> back in 2016, ted cruz, one of the prime time speakers at the rnc urged republicans to vote for someone other than donald trump the day after donald trump became the official republican nominee. ted cruz was the man without a party that year. the 2016 convention was an inflection point for the gop. it was a sign that a new era had begun. >> we do not need a reckless

president who believes she is above the law. lock her up. that's right. that's right. lock her up. >> it was the first time a national party used the jailing of a political opponent as a crowd pleaser. and by the time the gop held its next convention, it almost seemed quaint. day one of the 2020 republican convention revealed that the party had gone full maga. the speakers list included patricia and mark mclosky, a saint louis couple who two months earlier got famous for pointing their guns at racial justice protesters. >> they are not satisfied with spreading the chaos and violence into our communities. they want to abolish the suburbs altogether. no matter where you live. your family will not be safe in

the radical democrats' america. >> here is how the rest of that week went. >> joe biden is basically the loch ness monster of the swamp. >> this is preserving america as we know it and eliminating everything that we love. >> ladies and gentlemen, leaders and fighters for freedom and liberty and the american dream, the best is yet to come! >> so what happens this year? when the 2024 republican national convention heads to milwaukee? the rnc is finalizingist list of speakers. the full lineup isset to be this weekend. here is what we know so far. a 62-pound english bulldog named baby dog is expected to take the stage alongside its owner jim justice, west virginia's governor. and kari lake, an election denier who urged voters to strap on a glock to prepare for

the election and marjorie taylor greene, a spear theorist who insists the january 6th investigation was illegitimate and some school shooting victims were scripted actors. both of those women have speaking slots. and then there is amber rose, a model and former girlfriend of kanye west who spoke against donald trump's candidacy back in 2016. and is now in her maga era. while explaining her current endorsement of trump, she says he supports the most reasonable compromise on abortion. it ain't cats but it is certainly cast like no other and there is certainly a lot you might read into what kind of party invites these speakers and what candidate keeps this kind of company. the new york times published a fascinating piece about how mar- a-lago has been transformed into the nerve center of the most extreme elements of the maga movement. one of the reporters on the

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♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, ♪ ♪ liberty. ♪ next week, the republican national convention kicks off with four days of pageantry for donald trump but the maga spectacle we are expecting will just be a taste of what goes down at mar-a-lago on a daily basis and a glimpse of what is second trump white house might look like. mar-a-lago has become a gathering place for some of the most extreme factions of the

right wing. the analysis found that events hosted by ultra right organizations and political fundraisers now dominate mar-a- lago's calendar and even officially non-political events can feel like rallies. in this guilded echo chamber, mr. trump enjoying unwavering devotion and collects the staggering price of admission. joining me now is david who is an investigative reporter for the times and his buy line is on this amazing and interactive new reporting. david, thanks for joining me. a lot of people wondering how the maga sort of world view has come to be crystallized and it feels like mar-a-lago plays an instrumental role in sort of cementing the trump narrative in trump's own mind. and rallying the maga troops. who is now populating the halls of mar-a-lago from your reporting? >> it has been a huge shift. as recently as 2017, most of what happened to mar-a-lago was sort of palm beach society

balls. red cross, salvation army. that year, 2017, because of what trump said about the rioters in charlottesville, that there were fine people among them, a lot of the society clients left. there was a hole there. but that has been filled by a whole new set of people. some of them are political campaigns including trump's own. a lot of them are just non- profits or other groups aligned with trump's politics. non-profits started by his administration alumni. with people like mike flynn. people who basically are taking the conspiracy theories that sort of trump's voters believed in before. where you are right, physically, they start to infuse the republican mainstream. >> we are talking about fringe

ideas including the pizza gate theory which i would love for you to expand upon. and other looney tune ideas that don't make any sense. but inside the walls of mar-a- lago, that is what actually happened. that's fact. >> this is not just somebody talking in the corner somewhere. these are people on the stage speaking in mar-a-lago's ballroom. often with trump there. that the 2020 election was stolen. january 6th was somehow set up by the feds and pizza gate is real. if you don't remember that, that's a conspiracy there is a pizzeria here in washington, a place where democrats molest and eat and kill children. a an outlandish conspiracy theory. it is a place where you can deny reality and find a bunch of people to deny it with you. >> i think for what should bring chills down everyone's spine, this is not just

relegated to mar-a-lago. donald trump is the presumed nominee. this is a place where his aides gather and where this kind of conspiracy fear mongering is affecting other republicans. do you think like the trump hotel in washington dc, mar-a- lago is representative of the sort of trump project and the people who are in mar-a-lago now talking about pizzagate. how january 6th was an inside job. those are the people you will see at 1600 pennsylvania avenue. do you get the sense that these are the loyalists that trump will want to bring with him if he goes back to washington dc? >> i do and that is important to remember. when you think about trump in a potential next term. there was a lot of craziness in his first term, but he didn't have anybody who was mirroring his ideology. he brought a lot of people who were sort of just republican

mainstream people. keeping things mainstream. this would be a very different administration. and you're right, the people that are around him in mar-a- lago now, they are there because they realize that is what he like. they realize he is malleable, and if he gets elected again, they can be the ones who get in and start making policy. so it is important to look at who is around him physically and who is at mar-a-lago. they will not make that mistake again. they will be there in the white house, making policy. >> is there anybody sounding the alarm inside mar-a-lago? sort of the reality bell, is anyone ringing it? >> the people who were there, some all time members who have left. but that's the reaction. i think people just go elsewhere. people have selected, a crowd of people who want to be there and trump. so no. i don't think there is anyone

trying to change. they will just leave. >> for anybody who hasn't seen it, there is video, there are pictures. it really brings to life a terrifying subculture that could very well be in the white house in 2025. it's essential reporting from the new york times. david, thanks for your time tonight. >> thank you. still to come this evening, we have new polling about what democrats want in their presidential candidate and what they are willing to do and it is a lot to defeat donald trump. that's next. defeat donald trump. that's next. my name is brayden. i was five years old when i came to st. jude. i'll try and shorten down the story. so i've been having these headaches that wouldn't go away.

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trump out of the white house, 75% said yes. joining me now is a democratic pollster and political analyst. these numbers are confusing. help me understand. those this explain why biden is reluctant to do anything here? democrats think they should not be at the top of the ticket but they will vote for him anyway. >> you are right, the numbers are schizo but the reason for that, it can be entered into words, donald trump. the fact of the matter is, whoever the democratic nominee is, democrats will vote for the individual in mass, the only thing that matters is who the republican nominee is. the idea that there is a lot of

questions, that is immaterial because there is a focusing on the mind. once we are past the point of no return, whether that is biden or somebody else mistakes will become clear that this is a election that is a choice between -- or a conscientious movement to a autocracy. >> to your point it could be biden, it could be harris or any democratic governor unnamed as of yet. the resistance to trump, the fact that he poses a threat to democracy is strong enough that democrats will basically go with whoever's at the top of the ticket. >> there is no doubt, the poll i conducted yesterday, to meet there was a stark number there,

a be the most important one. one that democrats should take part of. do you think if trump is elected to another term, will he and his administration represent a grave threat to american democracy continuing in the u.s.? 53% of all voters including 22% of republicans answered yes to that question. so if the democrats can again make this case and make this selection choice a referendum between what biden would represent or whoever the democratic nominee is, which is continuing the way the country has been the world's superpower is a functioning democracy republic or this dictatorship authoritarian project we see other areas articulating that would commence in the trump, that choice will ultimately them defined around.

>> i would ask you a question i do not know if you know the answer to, you say there are 22% of republicans that find trump this tasteful and alarmed by trump, they think he poses a grave danger to the republic, do you think that sense of alarm as as powerful as the democratic sense of alarm that republicans will pull the lever for whoever is in trump in november? >> the question you mentioned earlier, regardless of what happens if biden is the nominee, if he shows signs of advanced aging and is unable to complete a full four-year term, only 40% said they would do that just to stop trump. that is received the other question or 53%, the majority are saying they believe trump is a threat to democracy so you do have folks in the middle. a lot of them are probably not

watching this program candidly. we are the junkies here. everybody watching tonight knows the stakes but those voters that 80 are not as attuned to the process may have concerns about trump of course but at the same time they look at some of the issues around biden, it is not enough for them to necessarily vote against trump when they see the concerns about biden. >> it is hard to understand, aside from the reality of the calendar, it is hard to understand. given the sense of alarm or this taste of trump, that seems baked in, i wonder if there is a point at which the democratic conversation needs to finish in terms of public support for the party itself. >> it is take good question with a clear answer, once the convention is over and we have our nominee as a party that is

when the conversation will come to a complete halt and i anticipate at least at that point democrats will come together as a democratic family and get behind the nominee. the question is, between now and then there is a opportunity weather again it is biden or somebody else, that decision is not defined and that is why you have this consensus. if this happen later in the process you would still see the democratic party in lockstep behind biden. the reason why this anxiety exists is because under no circumstances could trump be permitted to take the election because of a grave threat he would represent. >> thank you for helping down seemingly impenetrable numbers. that is our show for this evening. now it is time for the last word. good evening, we have a winner i believe on craziest most dangerous republican running for governor in the country and that is of course in north carolina. the democrat josh stein running against that candidate will

join us tonight