tomorrow in pennsylvania. there's rumors that's when he will announce his vp pick. msnbc contributor mike barnicle, thank you for joining us this morning. we'll talk to you again in a minute on "morning joe." thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" with us on this friday morning and all week long. "morning joe" starts right now. president biden continues to dominate the news. yeah, the whispers about him dropping out of the race keep getting louder. they're getting so loud, biden can almost hear them. >> we also learned today that some biden advisors are discussing how to convince him to step aside. that is not going to be easy. okay, they're thinking about just putting a klondike bar on the string and pulling it slowly down pennsylvania avenue. come on, let's go. come on. >> biden's conference today was a big deal because it was unscripted. like the whole country got invited to our grandpa's level one improv class. >> a look at some of the late night shows talking about

president biden last night. the president hoped to overcome the poor debate performance a couple weeks ago and concerns about his mental acuity with a news conference last night at the close of the nato summit. he did have some gaffes but also showed strong command of key issues, particularly on foreign policy. behind the scenes, though, advisors and close allies are said to be making the case for why he should step aside. we'll go through our new reporting from nbc news. also, on capitol hill, more democratic lawmakers calling on the president to withdraw from the race over concerns he cannot defeat donald trump in november. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is friday, july 12th. i'm willie geist. with us, we have the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire. msnbc contributor mike barnicle. pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate editor of "the washington post," eugene robinson. and president emeritus of the council on foreign relations, richard haass. great group assembled. our reporters coming in in a

moment. let's dive into the president biden's high stakes press conference last night on the final day of the nato summit in washington. as more members of his own party call for him to exit the race, the president took questions from reporters for nearly an hour yesterday and gave no indication he plans to end his campaign. in fact, the contrary. >> how the next two weeks go, will that affect your decision? or are you fully determined on running in november as the party's nominee? >> i'm determined on running, but i think it's important that i lay fears. i let them see me out there. i'm going to be going around making the case of the things i think we have to finish and how we can't afford to lose what we've done or backslide on civil rights, civil liberties, women's rights. that little button we have, control guns, not girls. i mean, the idea we're -- this

is where kamala was so good, as well. we're sitting around. more children are killed by a bullet than any other cause of death. the united states of america! what the hell are we doing? what are we doing? we have a candidate promising the nra, don't worry, i'm not going to do anything. i'm not going to do anything. you have a supreme court that is what you might call the most conservative court in american history. this is ridiculous. >> presidency is the most straining job in the world, and it is 24/7. how can you say you'll be up for that next year, in two years, in four years, given the limits you've acknowledged you have today? >> the limits i've acknowledged i have? >> there's been reporting that you've acknowledged that you need to go to bed earlier, end your evening around 8:00. >> that's not true. look, what i said was, instead

of my every day starting at 7:00 and going to bed at midnight, it'd be smarter to pace myself more. the 7:00, 8:00 stuff, instead of starting the fundraiser at 9:00, start it at 8:00, so people go home by 10:00. since i made that stupid mistake in the debate, i mean, my schedule has been full bore. i've done -- where's trump been, riding around on his golf cart, filling out his scorecard before he hits the ball? >> how can you reassure the american people you won't have more bad nights, whether they be on a debate stage or some matter of foreign policy? >> well, i'll tell ya what, the best way to assure them is the way i assure myself. that is, am i getting the job done? am i getting the job done? can you name me somebody who has gotten more major pieces of

legislation passed in 3 1/2 years? i created 2,000 jobs this last week. so if i slow down, i can't get the job done. that's a sign that i shouldn't be doing it. but there's no indication of that yet. >> you, earlier, explained confidence in your vice president. >> yes. >> if your team came back and showed you data that she would fair better against former president donald trump, would you reconsider your decision to stay in the race? >> no, unless they came back and said, "there's no way you can win." me. no one is saying that. no poll says that. >> the president last night speaking for nearly an hour there at that press conference at the end of the nato summit. eugene robinson, we did have a couple more democrats in the house come out just after that press conference and say that joe biden needed to step aside, despite a performance that i think most people believe was obviously much, much better than the debate performance.

he couldn't get much worse than that, but he looked and sounded better last night than he has recently. so what is your sense? did that do anything to at least buy him some time? did that do anything to change minds of people who were worried about him? >> well, you know, we'll see how much time it bought him. i mean, congressman jim hines from connecticut came out with his statement, calling on president biden to step aside, minutes after the press conference ended. the press conference itself i thought was good. i mean, it was affirmatively good for biden, in that he showed a mastery of foreign policy that he has exhibited for many years. little flubs were the same flubs that joe biden has been making for 30, 40 years. nothing to see there. the problem, of course, is that

he's trying to un-ring the bell that was rung in the debate, and that was a very difficult task. the other problem is that his numbers, you know, "the washington post" poll that came out yesterday showed him tied with donald trump nationally. that was kind of an outlier. most of the polls, the average of polls has him 3 points behind. in 2016 and 2020, when he got to election day, trump voters showed up who hadn't really been found by the pollsters. did a bit better than predicted. four years ago at this point, biden was ahead of trump by nine points. those are also data points that

don't inspire a lot of confidence among democrats, especially democrats on the hill who are worried about their own races. >> so we had, actually a few moments ago, a new poll came out. we talked about "the washington post" poll yesterday that showed the president tied with former president trump. this morning, it is an npr poll that shows joe biden up on trump. the concern, richard haass, is in the swing states where donald trump widened his lead a little bit, in places where, frankly, joe biden has to win. there is no option anymore. the margin of error is so small, he has to win michigan, wisconsin, pennsylvania. obviously, there's no other path to victory. you have called over the last couple weeks, richard, for the president to step aside, to make way for another candidate, because you don't believe that joe biden can beat donald trump. the stakes are too high. what'd you make of what you saw

last night? did it do anything to change your mind? >> short answer is no. but let me tell you how i got there, willie. i thought like you all, the president did a really good job last night on foreign policy. that was a sophisticated, thoughtful, nuanced conversation of some really complex issues. let's just say that. very few people in public or private life could have sustained that kind of conversation. the problem was, though, there were still some flubs, which people have focused on. he still comes off -- the affect is still someone who is old. the voice is what it is. the walk is what it is. also, foreign policy is not a subject that most americans wake up ready to focus on. but i think he probably strengthened the odds, not settled it, but increased the odds he'll be the candidate. still five weeks to the convention, so that pot still boils. the real question to me is should he be the candidate, and there i still have doubts, i'll be honest with you. he can't do anything about the fact he is an incumbent in an

era in which virtually every incumbent recently has lost. if you look, again, at india, south africa, britain, france, it is a very, very rough time to be an incumbent. the issues that hurt him still hurt him, given the history of the border and immigration. given gaza, even if we are nearing some progress there. food prices are still higher than they were 3 1/2 years ago. the age issue is one that you can never, ever put behind you 100%. he is always one flub away, one trip away. if the whole goal is to make this a referendum on donald trump, i don't think he's there. to me, i think other candidates on the democratic side would be better positioned to make this a referendum on donald trump. i'm not sure how joe biden ever turns the corner so this is not a referendum on him. if it is a referendum on him, it's not going to be him to be the next president of the united states. >> the flubs richard is referring to, president biden referred to vice president

harris as vice president trump mistakingly. earlier in the day, while standing with president zelenskyy, introduced him as president putin before quickly correcting it and making a joke about it. there were those moments. yes, he have better than the debate. that's a pretty low bar for a president to clear. the point that congressman himes made last night and others have made is we can't go on like this as democrats and a country, which is holding your breath every time the president speaks or goes out in public. congressman himes believes the stakes are so high, if donald trump becomes president, if republicans win the house and the senate, if there are more supreme court justices appointed by donald trump, the country is changed for generations. many democrats saying publicly now, many, many of them saying privately, they just don't think, and the polls show at this point, that joe biden won't win in a matchup with donald trump. how is the white house, the people you talk to, feeling

after the press conference? >> fair or not, biden will be under intense scrutiny, though those in the white house believe donald trump should be, as well. those in the campaign and white house feeling better late last night and this morning than they have in a couple weeks. they think the president, yes, a few flubs aside, and there was panic over text message when he did make those mistakes, but most feel like he was good last night. he was in command. good control, as richard said, of foreign policy issues, complex foreign policy issues. also, just thought he looked strong. he looked vigorous. he looked like someone who could handle this campaign. but you're right, the democratic worry continues. we'll need to see how the next couple days play out. the president has a campaign event in michigan today. that'll be closely watched. he sits down with lester holt monday for another wide-ranging interview. let's see how he does there. there are still powerful forces in the democratic party that think the party needs to turn the page, it's just simply too soon to say whether or not he stemmed the bleeding.

we should expect more defections from the democrats in the days to come. a narrowing path, the biden campaign put out a memo yesterday where they acknowledge, the president's standing did take a hit after the debate. they see paths to win. they acknowledge it has to be through pennsylvania, michigan, wisconsin. that may be his only path to victory. mike barnicle, we also shouldn't lose sight of what a moment last night was. a moment that i don't know we've ever seen before in modern american political history. a sitting president had a primetime news conference to defend his mental and physical abilities while trying to stave off a mutiny from his own party. >> yeah. what's amazing to me is the amount of attention we pay in the media, all of us, to the flubs. you know, vice president trump instead of vice president harris, things like that. that stuff has come with the dinner with joe biden for 40 years.

we regard it each and every time he makes a flub, it's shocking. it's not shocking. what is truly shocking in terms of balance, and you referenced it, is donald trump's, not flubs, his incendiary rhetoric. rhetoric aimed at dividing the country, at turning one group of people against another group of people, of threatening institutions like nato, of threatening a country like ukraine, things like that. we pay less attention to his rheoric than we do, oh, my god, he called her vice president trump. no, we have to get our act together and balance this thing out. >> well, we do, as you know very well, mike, for four long hours every morning, we talk about donald trump and everything he proposes and all the damage he could do further. we'll do a deep dive in a few minutes into project 2025, as well. let's bring in washington

managing editor carol lee and capitol hill correspondent ali vitali. carol, i want to start with you and your reporting with colleagues at nbc news. the headline of which is this, "no one involved in the effort thinks he has a path: biden insiders say the writing is on the wall." you say the set of democrats who think biden should reconsider his decision to stay in the race has grown now to include his own aides, operaoperatives, and offs tasked with guiding his campaign to victory. what more can you tell us this morning, carol? >> well, willie, what we learned in talking to a number of sources is that there are people who are around the president, it's not just lawmakers outside of the president's circle, it's not just democrats out in states or party leaders, but it is people who are working on the president's re-election effort who, privately, are saying after two weeks since the debate that this just isn't something he can turn around.

their view is they're looking at numbers, looking at money from donors that's dropping off. they're already reassessing to downgrade what their expectations are for bringing in money, fundraising for this month. they're already cutting back on certain fundraisers in terms of the number of people who will be there and how much money they're going to raise. they're looking at this whole set of data and saying that this is not a winnable situation. this is not something that the president can turn around and believe he needs to get out of the race. they also believe he needs to do so rather quickly, that it is not something that can continue to drag out. i think when you're talking about the president's press conference last night, what people like this are thinking is, you know, putting the president out there is something that the white house has to do. this is what democrats say they want, but it is as much part of their solution as it is their problem. when democrats are watching what the president is doing, there's anxiety. they're hanging on his every

word, waiting for something to happen. thinking to themselves, how did it come to this? how are we judging this president and whether he can go forward on him doing a basic thing that comes with the job, which is holding a news conference? then they're asking the question of, is this sustainable? he has to get it right every time for the next four months. that is not something that democrats, including people who are working and like the president and support him and want him to win this race, they just don't believe that he has the capacity to do it over the next four months. they don't think this is winnable. >> add in maybe a slowdown in fundraising, some of the swing state polls tipping toward donald trump. the aides in your piece say it is unsustainable. you matched reporting from "the new york times" suggesting the biden campaign was quietly looking at head-to-head matchups with kamala harris, the vice president of the united states, against donald trump. what more can you tell us about that? >> well, this is the first time

they've done this sort of polling, and it obviously comes at a precarious time. the timing is pretty interesting. now, what officials are saying is that this is -- they're doing this because former president trump has started to attack the vice president. it's based on that. but putting the vice president up against the former president in a hypothetical head-to-head matchup is a significant thing. whatever that data shows, if you draw the line back to what president biden said last night at his press conference, where he was asked, if he was shown data his vice president could beat former president trump, would he reconsider, and, you know, he said he'd look at data. if he was told he couldn't win, maybe he'd consider dropping out, but nobody has said that. all of that aside, the idea here is that this is something that's coming at a time when there are huge questions about whether the president is going to stay in

the race. is the president's campaign doing that? there's frustrations this got out. they don't like this. it's not a narrative they want out there, but they're doing it. >> to add to carol's excellent reporting, willie, the polling about vice president harris, yes, could be interpreted as a hint and possible change at the top of the ticket. the other angle, though, and some have said, is that it could be to determine that vice president harris, per polling, wouldn't beat president trump, and it'd strengthen biden's decision to remain at the top of the ticket. some firmly believe the vice president can't do it, though they feel she's grown as a candidate in recent months and is a valuable ally. they're not convinced she can beat president biden -- president trump, former president trump. there's certainly a number of democrats and officials who do, some even linked to the biden campaign, openly questioning whether or not he can continue. to be clear, his immediate family and his inner circle, the advisors who make the big

decisions around the president, they're all firmly convinced he should stay in. willie, they still think he can win. >> yeah. that's what we saw last night at the press conference. there was no wiggle room, at least last night from the president about whether or not he'll stay in the race. he's in, he says. ali, let's swing up to capitol hill, the place you cover every day. the mood of democrats, as we mentioned, couple more democratic defections yesterday from president biden after the press conference, saying it is time to move on. it is time for him to step aside. let's get vice president harris or a different candidate in there to beat donald trump. they say not because they don't admire and respect joe biden and his administration and the work he's done, but because they simply think he can't beat donald trump. what else are you hearing in the hours after the press conference last night? >> i think this conversation for the last 20 minutes hits on something that's so central to the main point on capitol hill. which is, i haven't talked to anyone who is a staffer, an operative, an elected, who doesn't say some form of the sentence, "i love joe biden but." the electability concerns are so

palpable. this panic has been so protracted. there was just a real sense on the hill yesterday, i think, of despair, both with the people who have come forward, like senator peter welch, to say, i think he needs to step down, all the way to members who have privately expressed their concerns but don't want to come forward publicly. either because they don't think it'll be persuasive to the president so why bother, or because they don't know if they're there yet. they have concerns about who, if not biden, can beat donald trump. again, all roads lead to democrats stressing the need to avoid a second trump presidency. because of things like project 2025. because of the role trump has played and takes credit for on stripping women of abortion protections and reproductive health care access. i think what congressman jim himes, the head of the intel committee says, when he explained why he came out in the minutes after the press conference, why he's coming out and saying biden shouldn't be the nominee, this is part of what he says. there's one other thing he said that i noticed that i think is

an important piece. listen here first. >> i've been with the president on a number of occasions, and i have looked at those numbers. no president has ever been re-elected with the disapproval ratings our current president, love him as we do, has. i will not stand silent as i see a trajectory to an electoral loss that leads to the presidency of donald trump and all that he has promised. i've done a lot of political campaigns, and the one attribute of almost every single losing campaign, and i've seen hundreds of them, is that right up until the moment that the numbers are in and you've lost, you believe that you will win. >> you guys also touched on this, and it is something the congressman later said. it's the idea that everything that president biden does between the debate and election day is going to be picked apart, scrutinized. any mistake will be much more massive. that's something that congressman himes said. this idea that you can't just

jump from presidential appearance to presidential appearance with an entire party weighing whether or not this is the moment they should all jump ship. it's the question that i've been asking lawmakers. how much longer can you guys do this without utterly kneecapping the man who, right now, has decided he is your nominee? i have to tell you, none of them have answered that question. i asked top democratic house member hakeem jeffries yesterday, how much longer can you let your caucus air their grievances and, drip by drip, come out and say they don't think biden should be the nominee? he just said, it is a constructive family conversation. that's been the line all week. none of these lawmakers want to grade the president on a curve, and i can bet you voters don't either. >> as we've been saying this week, ali, this is people of good faith who want one thing in the democratic party. >> exactly. >> that is to beat donald trump. congressman himes is a guy we respect a lot. obviously, a very smart guy. comes on our show all the time. he doesn't believe donald trump can be defeated by president biden. others say, well, joe biden is

the guy who beat donald trump, and he can do it again, despite all the shortcomings we see out in the open. so is there some moment, and who is the person? is it hakeem jeffries? is it nancy pelosi? is it former president obama behind the scenes? are there meetings? are there conversations? is there a moment where the party comes together and says, "this is our decision, this is the plan, we're either standing with the president or the vast majority of us believe he should step aside," does that moment ever come? >> i think it needs to. the goalpost and the timeline keeps moving. first, it was, all right, his first appearance after the debate, see how that goes. then the stephanopoulos interview. then see how the press conference goes. then it's, okay, the rnc, republican convention is next week. democrats come back to the hill. by then, if democrats haven't said all they need to say by then, we'll have to see what happens. there is this moving goalpost and this moving metric, and i think the thing that's so hard is, it is an unquantifiable

thing. every lawmaker i have talked to, i asked the same question you're asking me. okay, do more, what does that mean? when you need to see something, what does that look like? there's no tangible answer to this because really what you're solving for here is vibes, mood. people don't feel good. there is such a sense of despair that has been hanging over the capitol as i've been working the halls the last few days, and that is not something that you can solve by data. it is not something that makes -- it's a feeling. it's not a fact, right? that's what people are looking for. and i have to say, i mean, you look at the fact that top biden campaign officials went to capitol hill to meet with very nervous senators yesterday, and i know senators left that meeting saying, oh, they asked us not to leak. we're not going to give detail. the only thing we did end up hearing about is the fact it got heated when it came to pressing the biden officials on what a path forward looks like. i can tell you, we all know the way lawmakers work. if that meeting had gone really well, they would have said that

it went really well. that's not what we heard in the halls. there were people who said, yes, i felt good going in or i was a little nervous going in. i feel a little better now. the reality is, this race was always going to be close. it sort of feels, honestly, like 2020, when all i heard from voters was, okay, i just want the best person to beat trump, the best person to beat trump. biden got the benefit of the doubt on that, and it's open to see whether or not he gets it again here. >> the truth is, no one knows what happens. both ways are a gamble. staying with president biden might be a gamble. the unknown obviously is a gamble. ali vitali and carol lee, outstanding reporting, as usual, from both of you. thank you so much for being here this morning. ahead on "morning joe," we'll dig into what president biden says he accomplished at the nato summit this week. compare that with hungary's authoritarian leader, viktor orban, visiting donald trump last night at mar-a-lago. you're watching "morning joe." we're back in 90 seconds.

wait, no, i'm always hot. sleep number does that. can i make my side softer? i like my side firmer. sleep number does that. can it help us sleep better and better? please? sleep number does that. 94 percent of smart sleepers report better sleep. and now, sleep number smart beds starting at $999. shop now at sleepnumber.com

at care.com, it's easy to get a break, even if you're not on summer vacation. join millions of families who've trusted us and find caregivers in your area for kids, seniors, pets, and homes. go to care.com now to find the care you need this summer. for those who thought nato's time had passed, they got a rude awakening when putin invaded ukraine. some of the oldest and deepest fears in europe roared back to life because, once again, a murderous madman was on the march. this time, no one cowered in appeasement, especially the united states. in february, some of you

remember, i warned the world that the invasion was imminent. i rallied the coalition of 50 nations from europe to asia to help ukraine defend itself. many foreign policy experts thought as putin amassed russian forces 100 miles north of kyiv, the capital of ukraine, but putin thought it was the mother home of russia, the capital would fall in less than a week. but the ukrainian people, backed by a coalition i helped build, stopped them. today, kyiv still stands. nato stands stronger than it has ever been. meanwhile, my predecessor has made it clear he has no commitment to nato. he's made it clear that he would feel no obligation to honor article five. he's already told putin, and i quote, "do whatever the hell you

want." in fact, the day after putin invaded ukraine, here's what he said, it was genius. it was wonderful. some of you forgot that, but that's exactly what he said. but i made it clear, a strong nato is essential to american security, and i believe the obligation of article five is sacred. >> president biden speaking at length last night about nato and its strengthening under his administration. that was at the close of this week's summit commemoraing the 75th anniversary of nato. meanwhile, hungary's viktor orban traveled to florida to meet with donald trump. orban posted this photo on social media writing, "we discussed ways to make peace. the good news of the day, he is going to solve it." trump also made note of the meeting on truth social, posting, "there must be peace and quickly." it was orban's second time visiting mar-a-lago since march. he has publicly endorsed donald

trump for president, saying trump could bring an end to the war in ukraine. though he does not specify how. orban's visit came just days after he traveled to moscow to meet with vladimir putin and to beijing to meet with xi jinping. richard haass, can we start first with who viktor orban is for our viewers? he is an authoritarian leader, but why is it so significant he'd travel from beijing and moscow directly to mar-a-lago. >> viktor orban is significant, willie, for two reasons. one is domestically, if you look at what he's done inside of hungary, he has dismantled some of the fabric of hungarian democracy and civil society. he represents what's called illiberal democracy. a lot of people see it as a harbinger, almost a model for what donald trump would do if given the chance here. in terms of weaponizing or politicizing the organs of government for his own personal purposes, for changing the

balance between government and society and all that. secondly, orban is a model in a second way in his foreign policy. he also does the authoritarian romance, whether it is china or russia, and he's been remarkably, for all the members of nato, he has been by far, by far, the most sympathetic to putin. almost a neutral between the west and putin, or even slightly leaning toward neutral. who does that sound like? donald trump. look at a lot of people in trump world, they have ties to hungary organizationally and personally. if you want a glimpse of a trumpian future, what he'd do here and there, viktor orban is the place to look. that's why it is so significant. >> could you spell that out a little more, the threat to the existing order, to what president biden and nato are actually trying to do in ukraine, to save ukraine? just off that one photo, victor

-- viktor orban and donald trump at mar-a-lago, the threat it poses to the existing order. >> what was important last night, 2 1/2 years ago, russia went into ukraine. 2 1/2 years later, this has been a remarkable accomplishment. essentially, ukraine has stood up and fought the russians to a stalemate with american and european help. nobody thought this was possible. the question is whether they're going to be continuing to be able to do that. we saw what happened when the house republicans cut off aid. the real question is, can we persuade vladimir putin that time is not his friend? if putin thinks that time is his friend, the west will grow short in its support of ukraine, putin will keep going on. his goals aren't just territorial. the president was right last night, he wants to eradicate ukraine as a western-oriented, slavic country. putin hates the idea of ukraine as an alternative model for a

slavic nation with ties to the eu, to nato. we have to convince him that time is not his friend. we're going to stand by ukraine with as much as it takes for as long as it takes, so putin cannot eradicate it. what's in question now because of people like orban and obviously trump is whether that will be the case. so nothing is going to happen before the american election, but if trump wins, yes, putin is going to say, okay, why compromise, why think about anything? i'll press ahead. the issue then is whether donald trump as a president would give ultimatum to zelenskyy and other s that they couldn't accept, essentially saying, you have to agree. for example, you'd never be a member of nato. you have to give up your territorial claims here and so forth. this would be a real crisis for ukraine, for the west, for nato. that's why this is so important. >> eugene robinson, donald trump always makes a big show of his affinity for authoritarian leaders, whether it is vladimir putin or viktor orban. it is aspirational for him.

he wishes the american president had the powers that those men have inside their countries. if you read project 2025, which we're going to get into in a moment, he may just get them depending on how this election goes. it almost goes without saying that there's been so much focus on style at the press conference last night, it goes without saying that donald trump could not, for a moment, go into the kind of detail that president biden went into last night about, say, china or manufacturing in south korea or the war in ukraine or european munitions. there's a lot of focus on how he did. did he talk slow and all that. that's all fair game with concerns about his age. in terms of fluency about foreign policy, it's obviously no contest. >> absolutely no contest. in terms of foreign policy, specifically toward europe and nato, to the extent that donald trump has a coherent foreign policy, it's the wrong one. it's absolutely the wrong one. i mean, who do you want

determining the future contours of the atlantic alliance and, more largely, the world order? do you want donald trump, vktor orban, vladimir putin, and xi jinping being the architects of that future or not? that's kind of the question in terms of international relations. he's down with -- trump is down with viktor orban and with putin and with xi in their vision of this sort of multi-polar world where russia has a sphere of influence that includes the slavic countries, and they're cut off from europe. it is not only a giant step backwards for the world but kind of a step into the unknown. it destabilizes nato.

our western european allies don't agree with this vision. and it's really, really dangerous. that's part of what is at stake in this election and why it's so important. >> we heard this many times from nato leaders bracing themselves now for the possibility of another trump administration. trump-proofing the alliance so he cannot tear it down. gene, stay with us, please. richard haass, i was going to try to lighten things up, make a joke about the yankees, but i can't even muster a smile, i'm afraid. it's bleak. although, the orioles are helping us out. we're still only two games out. >> willie, i appreciate the thought. the fact that the red sox are as close as they are given where we were here, that's really depressing. >> come on, snap out of it. >> it'll be harder and harder to come in here in the mornings. that's all i can say.

outnumbered. >> red sox ten games over .500, guys. you thought they'd finish in last and tear down the organization. ten games over .500, pains me to say it, but they look good. president emeritus on the council of foreign relations, richard haass, thank you, as always. coming up, a closer look at donald trump's ties to the far right agenda known as project 2025. we'll get into the details of it when "morning joe" comes right back. this summer. snacking. just. got. serious. introducing new $3 footlong dippers. the world might not be ready for them... ...but at $3 a pop? your wallet definitely is.

we planned well for retirement, but i wish we had more cash. you think those two have any idea? that they can sell their life insurance policy for cash? so they're basically sitting on a goldmine? i don't think they have a clue. that's crazy! well, not everyone knows coventry's helped thousands of people sell their policies for cash. even term policies. i can't believe they're just sitting up there! sitting on all this cash. if you own a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more, you can sell all or part of it to coventry. even a term policy. for cash, or a combination of cash and coverage, with no future premiums. someone needs to tell them, that they're sitting on a goldmine, and you have no idea! hey, guys! you're sitting on a goldmine! come on, guys! do you hear that? i don't hear anything anymore. find out if you're

sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com. sure, i'm a paid actor, and this is not a real company, but there is no way to fake how upwork can help your business. search talent all over the world with over 10,000 skills you may not have in house. more than 30% of the fortune 500 use upwork because this is how we work now.

want to save on some of the biggest names in streaming on m the network made for streaming? x marks the spot. now you can add the new xfinity streamsaver™ that includes netflix, peacock, and apple tv+. that's xfinity streamsaver™ for just $15 a month. all your favorites. all in one place. only from xfinity. for more watching and less spending... x marks the spot. do it all on the network made for streaming, and bring on the good stuff.

do you think our democracy is under siege based on this court? do you think democracy is under siege based on project 2025? do you think he means what he says when he says he'll do away with civil service, eliminate the department of education? i mean, we've never been here before. that's the other reason i didn't, as you say, hand off to another generation. i have to finish this job. i have to finish this job because there's so much at stake. >> president biden mentioning project 2025 over last night's news campaign increasingly tri to connect donald trump with project 2525. it is a 900-plus page policy

road map from the heritage foundation, a conservative thinktank. it is packed with far right agenda items, including abolishing the department of education, severe cuts to medicaid. it says health and human services should no longer consider abortion as a form of health care. it expands deportation powers for the president. it would expand presidential powers elsewhere significantly. independent agencies like the department of justice would answer almost entirely to the president. donald trump has tried to distance himself from project 2025, posting online last week, he knows nothing about it or who was behind it. you'll see in a moment why that's not true. he doubled down on a post yesterday, claiming he had nothing to do with project 2025. but many of trump's key allies have been directly involved. in fact, project 2025 is staffed by more than 200 former officials of the trump administration. the former president even spoke about the group's plans at a dinner sponsored by the heritage

foundation in april of 2022. >> because our country is going to hell, the critical job of institutions such as heritage's, to lay the groundwork. heritage does such an incredible job at that. this is a great group, and they're going to lay the groundwork and detail plans for what exactly our movement will do and what your movement will do when the american people give us a colossal mandate to save america. that's coming. that's coming. >> former president trump speaking to the heritage foundation. that was in april of 2022. just over two years ago. let's bring in nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard. he's been reporting on donald trump's ties to project 2025. also with us for the discussion, former aid to the george w. bush white house and state department, elise jordan. good morning to you both. vaughn, flush out a little bit for people who have heard the name, project 2025, they've seen some of the headlines about it. if you can, get into the details

and explain to people what exactly is in this document. it's a big one, almost 1,000 pages long, what it says and really how close donald trump is tied to it. >> right, willie. number one, this is not just heritage foundation. this is a long-time conserative group that claims we did this with reagan in 1980. we had a similar conservative document, handed it over to the reagan administration to implement on day one. that's exactly what they intended to do with this 900 page document. essentially, it is a playbook of how to operate the departments and the agencies. but there's 100 other allied groups that are involved in this project, including the likes of turning point usa and charlie kirk, the claremont institute, john eastman. there are major figures here that are involved. russ vought is the platform committee, a key author of this document. you have the likes of john

mcentee, overseeing the database they are building, during the transition to pull from, in order to staff the thousands of jobs needed to be filled by political appointee. who was he? a close aide to donald trump in the white house and became the director of personnel. in the database, they are currently having conservatives go and fill out an application, answering questions about their positions, and then the database is going to be able to be used to staff the trump white house in 2025. what is unique about this is in two weeks before donald trump left office, he implemented schedule f, which transferred thousands of civil servant jobs and made them political appointment positions here. joe biden on day one of his administration rescinded that. donald trump and the heritage foundation, project 2025, have committed to reimplementing

that. this could be 50,000 jobs or more. civil servants who could be fired and replaced by loyal donald trump supporters. this is vast. it has been in the works for years, ever since 2022 when donald trump made those comments. now, it is ready to be implemented by this next administration. >> yeah, and trump's efforts to distance himself from it don't hold water here in recent days. he knows some of the headlines coming from it with scary. president biden expected to talk about project 2025 during his campaign event in michigan later today. vaughn, let's focus in on what this really is. it's about consolidating power at the hands of the president. the idea the doj would answer directly to the oval office just obliterating all the boundaries and guardrails we've had before surrounding the executive mansion there. talk to us about what that could look like with a potential donald trump with more power and more political appointees at his disposal. >> right. this comes at the heart of why there could be an effort to fire a large part of the civil workforce here.

it is a greater use of the executive branch. because they make the case that departments and agencies have gotten out of hand. that, you know, to hear jd vance describe it, that 90% of the civil workforce in america are liberals. therefore, when conservatives go and try through their own administration to go and implement conservative policies, they're met by roadblocks of liberal federal workers who do not want to implement those policies. so what this document would allow is a greater use of the executive through the department of justice, through the department of agriculture, through the department of labor, to go and more readily be able to replace the civil workforce, and also hand greater power to the executive branch which the folks involved in the project claim is the rightful power of the president of the united states and that he should be able to operate those departments and those branches as he sees fit. unlike in the past decades, they say the president, who would be donald trump, should be able to go enact that. >> elise, you've been an

employee of the united states state department. in listening to this description from vaughn and knowing a little bit about what's in project 2025 just from reading about it, it sounds like the exact kind of package that viktor orban would say, yeah, go for it. it's really good. what would happen within the contours of government if this was implemented? >> you could destroy the infrastructure of government that's taken so many decades to build up. the foreign service, for example, the state department, the civil service at the state department, expertise that could not easily be replaced within generations. but to step aside to the political ramifications of this, this is the best story for democrats right now that they have going and the biden campaign. as much as they can keep putting this in the spotlight, it drives trump and his campaign probably a little bit nuts. because no campaign likes for an outside group to overshadow what they are doing and to say they're going to be the ones in power. that's what heritage has done

essentially right now. they've overstepped their contours, so not only is it a bad story for the trump campaign, it's also really annoying. >> so the justice department, what would happen to the attorney general of the united states under project 2025? >> let's be very clear, jeff clarke is one of the individuals involved in this project. jeff clarke, folks will recall, was the individual who donald trump had sought to make the attorney general right before january 6th in order to help publicly put out there that the election was stolen. jeffrey clarke has made the case that it is within the power of the presidency to go and investigate who you determine. that it is the department of justice of the president of the united states, and it has been a longstanding policy that the attorney general acts separate from the wills of the president. of course, i'll go back to when bill clinton had his tarmac incident. this is one of the moments here where you could look at jeffrey clarke as potentially an

attorney general. these are the individuals building out a vision of the department of justice that donald trump has audibly spoken the words, that he wants to use to go after people like jack smith, people like fani willis, alvin bragg. that's what the department of justice could very well look like. they put it on paper. >> project 2025 and the dangers posed by it have been the democrats' efforts of counterprogramming. we saw the rnc platform has come out. walk us through how it softens some of the stances, but should we actually trust that? it doesn't matter what the platform is when you're president because you are president. >> these are the folks who will be running the administration. these are donald trump's closest allies who put together this project 2025 document. now, the gop platform, it is a little more watered down, right? there is language that was removed from the previous platform which called for a human life amendment to be added to the u.s. constitution.

this new platform that will be voted on by the delegation in milwaukee, it only says that abortion rights decisions should be made by the state. project 2025's 900-page document goes as far as to say the comstock act should be prosecuted upon, which bars the mailing of abortion medication around the country. so this is where donald trump is political, and he understands a majority of americans are supportive of women's reproduction rights. this 900-page policy document that was published first last year, well, it puts everything on paper. he understands that a lot of this, how the department of justice would be operated, right, that is not necessarily popular with the majority of americans. so this is where he has some authors that are from the project 2025 document that are also working on the gop platform. let's be very frank. this is donald trump's republican party. it is going to be donald trump's administration. the folks that are involved in all of this, we should expect them to be on the front lines

come january 2025 if donald trump is back in. >> but it also is a convenient way for old school republicans who aren't in touch with trump's populous vision and aren't on board with it, whereas, they might have had the same ideas about the department of justice and political revenge, but it doesn't mirror what donald trump tends to do or philosophies. it is more of an old school hawkish foreign policy. willie, i just think as long as the biden campaign keeps this in the spotlight and not joe biden's fumbles, this is a good story for them. >> yeah, as we saw, president biden brought it up last night. you're hearing members of the campaign talk about it. jaime harrison, head of the dnc, talks about it a lot, as well. gene robinson, it is interesting looking at donald trump's statement, trying to put some distance between himself and project 2025. although, he clearly knows all the people involved with it and knows all the policy platforms that are in there. he said, parts of it are, quote, absolutely ridiculous and abysmal. why would donald trump say that? because there's a lot in there

about abortion that he knows will harm his campaign among women, among independent voters, in swing states. for example, project 2025 wants the fda to rescind the approval of mifepristone and roll back abortion rights. also takes a shot at the national weather service. wants to scale that back because project 2025 and its authors feel it's been too alarmist about climate change. >> yeah. >> donald trump could try to distance himself, but these are his people pushing forward what could be the agenda of his administration. >> yeah. these are his people. a lot of these are his ideas. remember, he goes on and on about the deep state. this was an attempt to get rid of essentially, you know, to hollow out the federal government. the federal government workforce. it has so many years of deep experience and expertise. look, this is just another

reason why the prospect of another donald trump presidency is so dangerous and simply unacceptable. it could change this country in ways that would take us i don't know how long to recover from if, indeed, we could. that's why the stakes are so high in this election. we're going to be on this knife's edge, i fear, until november. >> eugene robinson, thanks so much. nbc's vaughn hillyard, thank you if your reporting on project 2025. elise, stay with us. ahead this morning, "the new yorker"'s susan glasser will be our guest with her take on president biden's press conference, whether it moved the needle with democrats, with a couple of them coming out after the news conference saying he should step aside. plus, "the atlantic" "trump is planning for a landslide win. tim will explain why the trump campaign is all but traying joe

biden does not drop out. also ahead, former white house chief of staff ron klain joins the conversation on what is happening right now inside joe biden's inner circle. "morning joe" is coming right back on a friday morning. switched to shopify. it gave me so much peace of mind. if we make a change, my site's not going to go down. and just knowing that i have a platform that we can rely on, that is gold to us. start your free trial today. ♪ ♪ not every decision you make will be as good as getting a volkswagen at the savvy vw summer sales event.

2024 volkswagen models cost less to maintain than honda. get 1.9% apr financing or a $2500 customer bonus on a new 2024 tiguan.

according to a new poll, trump and biden are tied in the race. they're polling at an impressive 3%. even though they're tied, the majority of biden supporters think he should step aside.

at this point, i think we can stop calling them supporters. right? are you supporting me? oh, i don't know. the big news today was biden held his first solo press conference since the debate. press conference was scheduled for 5:30 but was moved to an hour later. smart. everyone knows the later it is, the sharper biden gets, you know? just for fair warning, by 7:15, he is in rem sleep, okay? welcome back to "morning joe." it is friday, july 12th. i'm willie geist. jonathan lemire, mike barnicle, elise jordan still with us. joining the conversation for the hour, president of the national action network and host of "politics nation," the reverend al sharpton. nbc news national affairs analyst and partner and chief political columnist at "puck," john heilemann. "the new yorker"'s susan glasser. and investigative reporter michael schmidt. another great group assembled this hour. let's start with president biden's press conference last

night on the final day at the nato summit in washington. the president took questions from reporters for nearly an hour. he did have some gaffes at the beginning, but then fiercely defended his accomplishments and made clear again he has no plans to leave the presidential race. >> in 2020, you referred to yourself as being a bridge candidate for a younger, fresher generation of democratic leaders. i wanted to know what changed? >> what changed was the depravity of the situation i inherited. in terms of the economy, our foreign policy, and domestic division. what i realized was, my long time in the senate had equipped me to have the wisdom on how to deal with the congress to get things done. we got more major legislation passed which no one thought would happen, and i want to finish it, to get that finished.

>> how the next two weeks go, will that affect your decision, or are you fully determined on running in november as the party's nominee? >> i'm determined on running, but i think it is important that i allay fears by letting them see me out there. i'm going to be going around, making the case of the things i think we have to finish and how we can't afford to lose what we've done or backslide on civil rights, civil liberties, women's rights. that little button, control guns, not girls. the idea we're sitting around, and this is where kamala is so good, as well, we're sitting around, and more children are killed by a bullet than any other cause of death. the united states of america! what the hell are we doing? what are we doing? we have a candidate saying he's

promising nra, don't worry, i'm not going to do anything. i'm not going to do anything. we have a supreme court which is what you might call the most conservative court in american history. this is ridiculous. >> you had some discussions over the past few days with your press secretary about the question of health exams. you said you take the cognitive test every day in this job. are you open to taking another physical or test before the election? governor whitmer of michigan, for instance, said it wouldn't hurt to take a test. >> well, look, two things. one, i've taken three significant and intense neurological exams by a neurologist. the most recent in february, and they say i'm in good shape, okay? if a neurologist tells me he thinks i need another exam -- by the way, i've laid every bit of

the record out. i hadn't -- i haven't hidden a thing. you ought to ask trump for his, okay? i laid it all out. and every single day, i'm surrounded by good docs. if they think there's a problem, i promise you, even if they don't think it's a problem, they think i should have a neurological exam again, i'll do it. >> you mentioned that your vice president, kamala harris, would be ready to serve on day one. can you elaborate on that? what is itattributes and accomplishments over the last four years that make her ready to serve on day one, if necessary? >> first of all, how she's handled the issue of the freedom of women to control their bodies. secondly, her ability to handle almost every issue on the board. this was a hell of a prosecutor. she was a first rate person. in the senate, she was really good. i wouldn't have picked her unless i thought she was qualified to be president from

the very beginning. i made no bons about that. she is qualified to be president. that's why i picked her. >> president biden in a news conference that lasted about 59 minutes last night at the end of the nato summit in washington. john heilemann, let's start this hour with you. obviously, that performance was light years better than the debate performance two weeks ago, though that's a very low bar to clear for a president. probably not a great sign when the bulk of the questioning is about whether you should take a cognitive test, whether you're up for the job, or whether he thinks his vice president perhaps could step in for him at some time. we did see some democrats, a couple of them, come out after the news conference. congressman jim himes of connecticut among them, saying he has great respect for biden and everything he's done, but he believes he cannot beat donald trump and, therefore, should step aside. there's reporting we may hear more of that the next couple days from house democrats. what's your assessment talking to your sources of how the party is feeling about the president after last night's press

conference? >> willie, i think there is a -- if you think about the two big media appearances he's done since the debate, one, the stephanopoulos interview, and this press conference, i would say, they both had a similar kind of quality in one since. this was a more impressive performance for sure. his ability to, because there was a lot of -- amid the questions you mentioned, there were policy questions. smart to put him out on the nato stage. he is comfortable there. foreign policy questions, he is nimble and able to carry on a conversation at a level of depth that no one around this table could, and certainly donald trump can't. i don't think from -- if you were taking the temperature, and you mentioned jim himes, a very good example -- the temperature of the resistance to joe biden staying on the ticket or the people who would like him to leave the ticket, it's now based on the falling effects,

consequences of what happened in the debate, which is the numbers. what you saw yesterday prior to this press conference was that, in the house of representatives and the senate, the more data comes across, the more people there are convinced that not only does he have a narrow path, if any path at all to win, and they will go down with him. there is -- the depth of the conviction on that front among democrats, members of the democratic senate caucus, is almost total. in the house, it is not quite as close to unanimous, but it is very high. i don't think the press conference is going to change that. and eventually lead to many more people, some more people, which people to come out publicly or, in cases, privately, what it'll lead them to do the course of the next few days, that i don't know. jim himes said, i thought he did fine in the press conference. i'm telling him he should leave the ticket, but there's nothing to do with this press

conference. he was saying explicitly, i have reached a brutal conclusion, which is joe biden is going to lose and will take the house of representatives with him. i don't think that that's a concern that should be dismissed as the biden campaign and others have on various occasions as being elites, people trying to hold on to their jobs. these are elected representatives who are hearing from their constituents and seeing things in the polls. at 17 now, 17 out of 435 members of congress, obviously a smaller number of democrats, but that's still not a groundswell in the public space. the question comes down to people like nancy pelosi, and it's always been there in my view. i'm not sure the press conference will have resolved anything. that's why i say it was kind of like stephstephanopoulos. not bad enough to drive him all the ticket, but not good enough to turn all the numbers around and allay fears. >> is there anything he can do to allow the fears? people have seen what they've seen with various events. most notably, the debate, of

course. susan glasser, your new piece online this morning for "the new yorker" is titled, "joe biden's less-than-awful press conference does not mean everything is now okay." a little bit tongue in cheek with the headline there, but it makes the point a lot of people made, that less than awful should not be the standard for the man holding the most powerful job on the face of the earth. what are you hearing about the way forward here after last night's press conference? >> well, that's right. you started with the observation that the bar has been set so very low. i think in many ways, this press conference is a preview of what the campaign looks like from here on in for democrats as long as joe biden remains at the top of their ticket. which is to say, every public appearance is going to be accompaied by, you know, holding your breath, wondering how he is going to do. are we one gaffe away from, you know, a whole new round of recriminations and fears around

biden's viability? because i think, to john's point, this is not about any individual appearance anymore. it's about the numbers. it's about the view of an increasing number of serious democrats, people who should be taken seriously, who believe that biden is not in a position to win. remember, that debate was called for by the biden campaign itself because they were not identifiably winning against donald trump, theydynamic. now, they're having a conversation in the middle of the summer of an election year about shoring up their own nervous democrats. they're speaking still to the democratic base, rather than being able to look to how do i assemble a winning coalition in 2020 for -- you know, how do i persuade not just core democrats but independents and even some

republicans? the people who elected biden in 2020, they're the ones who aren't convinced. biden really isn't even speaking to them right now, and i think that's the cost and the consequence of this ongoing internal fight among the democrats. >> rev, that's the point, isn't it? this isn't just about passing performance tests. it's the deep seeded concern that joe biden cannot win based on his performance, based on his age, based on the perception that he is too old to have the job. that's what you're hearing from democrats who, again, like and admire joe biden, think he's done a great job as president, appreciate his service. they just look out on the horizon and say, if he depose goes down, he may take us with him. the house, senate, seats down the road. there is deep concern, and i know you're hearing it, too, that joe biden could lose it all for democrats. >> i'm hearing it, yes. but i'm also hearing, not so fast. because if not biden, then how

do we do a transition that doesn't put us in a more dangerous position? i was in milwaukee yesterday doing a eulogy for a black man killed by some hotel guards. people in an uproar about that are saying to me, you cannot win wisconsin without milwaukee and black turnout. they were saying to me, well, we have questions about biden's age, but where do we go? are they going to try to undermine kamala harris? i think that if we're talking a coalition, you've got to remember the basic roots of that coalition, black, latinos, and labor. you can't just take for granted, we're going to go where some people just want to go and abandon someone who has been with us. i looked at the press conference last night and said, where are the black reporters? i mean, we're looking at all whites questioning biden, and black voters are supposed to get in line? i think that a lot of the people that are stepping out there

taking things for granted. you notice that maybe only one member of the congressional black caucus has said biden ought to step aside. congressman jim clyburn will be on "politics nation" with me tomorrow night. i'll be guided a lot by what he has to say. don't forget, it was the stonewall of the black voter and then the latino vote that put biden in nomination. for us to be out of these discussions i think is offensive and elitist. >> the white house determined which reporters got questions yesterday. >> that's who i was addressing. [ laughter ] >> michael schmidt, no doubt, campaign aides, democrats, white house officials, feel better this morning, but to the point of this conversation, it's unclear what last night's news conference really changed for the big picture for the party. you were part of a team that had reporting that emerged before the news conference about how some biden advisors, maybe not the closest advisors, but some biden advisors are actually

having quiet conversations about how to gently steer the president out of the race. tell us about it. >> yeah. he sort of nodded to some of these issues last night in his press conference. but what these aides have basically come to the conclusion of is that he does have to step aside. to do that, they have to convince him of the need to do that. and the biggest thing they face is basically showing and telling him and convincing him that he cannot win. he is someone who has become even more entrenched in that view since the debate. before the debate, he thought that he had a far better chance than his vice president of beating trump, and that has not changed. that puts this story truly in a standoff. it's a standoff between a president and his party. as we saw minutes after the press conference was over last

night, jim himes, you know, someone of a fairly reasonable member of the house, someone who sees the world very similarly to a lot of other house members, comes out and says that, basically, as you were saying, regardless of that press conference, you know, he has to go. it's because of the poll numbers. i think there's also a deep frustration amongst these democrats that they're not talking about these accomplishments. they did have an enormous amount of accomplishments over the past few years, but, instead, folks like myself who aren't doctors or on television breaking down performances, saying, well, he stumbled three names tonight, and i guess that was better than two weeks ago. we're not talking about the accomplishments. we're not talking about donald trump. one more thing that i wanted to add is that i've talked to one of the 17 that has broken, and what he said to me was interesting. he said, i didn't know what the

reaction would be from my constituents when i did this. i didn't have polling. i didn't have anything scientific or mathematical to tell me what it was going to be. i meant with what i thought. he said that the reaction had been 80/20. 80% of his constituency said, you know, based on his feel, we're okay with it. they thought he had done the right thing. he was a bit surprised by that, i think. he thought he was taking a risk. he didn't know what it was going to be. the backlash was less than he thought. it's just one congressman. it's just one example. it's someone who has lived through the decision of coming out publicly against the president. >> by the way, rev invoked james clyburn's name, one of the most respected congressman in the democratic congress. he said, quote, "we are riding with biden. they're riding with the president. spokesperson for the biden and harris 2024 re-election

campaign, adrienne elrod. great to see you, as always. i do want to start with what we heard last night, sort of a critique but a thoughtful one, one that said brought him no joy, from congressman jim himes of connecticut, when he said president biden should step aside. here's what he said. >> i respect people who have an opinion different than mine, but the underlying thesis here is that we'll turn this around. i've heard for months and months and months, that the problem is we haven't communicated the remarkable legislative achievements, the biggest investment in our infrastructure ever, the fact that, for medicare recipients, out of pocket costs are capped at $2,000. the fact that insulin is now capped at $35 a month. i've heard over and over again, that the only problem is we're not communicating that well. i would just ask, you know, my fellow biden supporters, the people who love joe biden, whether you believe, whether you have evidence that in the next five months, that story will be

so exquisitely told by the president that we will turn around the polling. that we will turn what is, right now, a losing hand into a winning hand. it pains me to say that because joe biden, his legacy is top ten presidential material. >> top ten president, adrienne, that jim himes and a handful of others in the house at this point say should step aside. what's your reaction? >> first of all, congressman himes just gave a really strong case why president biden should be re-elected. he talked about his record of accomplishments. the fact he's lowered insulin to $35. the fact that he's passed four major economic bills. by the way, president biden talks about this all the time, why has it not really broken through in the last two weeks? because there's an obsession in the media that he should step aside. he's simply not going to. willie, who else do we know, frankly in congress, currently serving right now, who could get up on that stage last night at a

press conference for nearly an hour, and talk about a wide range of policy issues, from foreign policy issues, complex foreign policy issues, by the way, to the economy? president biden was at his best last night. he injected some humor into the conversation, but he also showed that from china to the asian pacific region, to the conflict in ukraine and russia, you know, to a number of other situations that we're dealing with in the middle east, he is the man for this moment. he is the person who should be in the white house, taking on the challenges that america is facing both here domestically and internationally. that is the joe biden we saw last night. and i don't know who else, frankly, in congress, you know, in other elected offices who could have done what he did last night. you know, again, he respects, made it clear that members of congress are allowed to have their own opinion, but he is staying in the race.

he is the best person to take on donald trump. he beat donald trump in 2020 and will beat him again in 2024. >> good morning. as you say, the president couldn't have been clearer last night, that he is not going anywhere. but it's not just some members of the house of representatives who are suggesting the president should perhaps step aside. there's been reporting that former speaker nancy pelosi also has grave concerns about the presidency, some of which she expressed on our show earlier in the week. president obama the same. two democrats who carry weight and are well respected throughout the party. >> well, i think, again, president biden's response to that is he's hitting the campaign trail today, lemire. he is going to detroit. he'll talk to voters. we have nearly 3,000 people who will be at this event. he's going too take his message to the voters. i also want to say, where has donald trump been the past two weeks? playing golf with billionaires. president biden has been on the

campaign trail, both serving as president of the united states and traveling across the country talking to voters. he's held over 20 events. donald trump has basically done nothing. lemire, we have spent the last two weeks talking about president joe biden in a way that is not helpful to this campaign, that is not helpful to saving democracy. we're not talking about project 2025. we're not talking about how incredibly terrifying it would be if that agenda was implemented in the united states government. you know, i'm glad you had vaughn hillyard on earlier today talking about the fact that nearly 200 people who have worked for donald trump, who have been affiliated with him, were part of crafting project 2025. so donald trump is trying to run away from it. he can't. a lot of the people who have been part of his orbit, who are still part of his orbit have crafted that plan. those are the issues we should be talking about. instead, we've spent two weeks, not we on the campaign, i'm sitting here in wilmington with the hundreds of people on this campaign who are so proud every single day to be working to make sure president joe biden is

re-elected. we have been talking about these issues, but there's been such an obsession from the media to not talk about the issues, to know focus on joe biden, is he the right president for the moment? stop talking about that. it's time to focus on president biden. he is our nominee. 14 million voters in the prix primary voted for him. convention 38 days away, it is time to get back to the issues and start talking about what president biden is going to do for the american people. he's been talking about it. it is time for that to be, i think, projected on the airwaves and for us to get back to the business of the american people. >> what's also been an obsession, as i think you know, adrienne, of members on capitol hill and everyday people in this country who were very and deeply concerned about what they saw in that debate and want to make sure he is up to the job. maybe they saw someone last night who was. senior adviser and spokesperson for the biden/harris 2024 re-election campaign, adrienne elrod. thanks, as always. still ahead on "morning

joe," donald trump reportedly is planning for a landslide victory in november. we'll talk to the atlantic's tim alberta about what he learned from discussions with the former president's campaign managers. plus, president biden fighting for his political life despite record highs on wall street, cooling inflation, falling mortgage rates. we'll go over the winning week for the american economy when "morning joe" comes right back. while i am a paid actor, and this is not a real company, there is no way to fake how upwork can help your business. upwork is half the cost of our old recruiter and they have top-tier talent and everything from pr to project management

because this is how we work now.

ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or

visit coventrydirect.com. [ put a little love in your heart by david ruffin begins to play ] my bad, my bad. good race. - you too. you were tough out there. thank you. i'm getting you next time though. oh i got you, i got you. down goes jewett. jewett and amos are down. what a lovely sign of sportsmanship. you okay? yeah. ♪ ♪

the conversation about the president getting out of the race, should that conversation continue? >> no, it shouldn't. >> the conversation should be over? >> no, the conversation should focus on the record of this administration, on the alternative to his election, and let joe biden continue to make his own decisions about his future. he's earned that right. and i am going to give him that much respect. if he decides to change his mind later on, then we will respond to that. we have until the 19th of august to open our convention, and so i would hope that we would spend our time now focusing on the record that we will lay out for the american people. >> congressman jim clyburn a few moments ago talking to our friends at the "today" show.

rev, you just mentioned jim clyburn. he went on to say, quote, "i hope we will focus on the substance of this man instead of sometimes misspoken words and phrases, and let's focus on how he has run the country." jim clyburn's voice is an incredibly influential one in democratic politics. what'd you make of what he said there? >> i think it'll have a lot of impact, not only with black voters but a lot of voters. jim clyburn helped bring joe biden to the dance. as i said, he'll be on my show saturday night. i think that if he took a different position, it would be devastating to the president. but i also think that people understand clyburn knows the difference between hype and reality. the reality is that president biden has done a stellar -- has a stellar recor on the concerns of most americans, and he has earned the right to get the benefit of the doubt that is being raised by some people who

are calling on him to step aside. i think that, clearly, the strongest points i saw him make last night, and i thought it was a strong press conference for him, is he wants to finish the job. who was the job for? the job was for people that had been neglected, if not devastated, by four years of donald trump. those of us that wanted to see that job turned around that trump did on us to a job that biden did for us, we'll be inclined to want to see that job be finished. >> susan, you have been a skilled observer of the washington scene and the politics in washington for quite some time. i'm going to ask you your thoughts on last night, on two strands that took place. one was president biden's skillful and understandable observation about politics, global politics, foreign affairs, foreign policy, ukraine, the middle east. the other is the path that he takes and stumbles upon when he

talks about his own future within the american political system. when he feels he is getting in trouble, you get the -- anyway, and he moves on to another topic. what do you see and hear and think when you observe this? >> i think you're right on the mark, absolutely. last night, he was visibly -- i don't know if it was nervous or simply trying to be more careful with his words, but he struggled. he gave actually short answers, not necessarily convincing answers to many doubters when it came to issues around his own age and fitness for office. he visibly seemed to, you know, settle into himself when asked foreign policy questions at the end of the nato 75th anniversary summit. you know, this was the joe biden that we're familiar with. he gave us little mini lectures on the need for a new industrial policy, on the complexities of doing business with china. that was a theme, by the way,

that emerged very clearly, and i think importantly, at the nato summit. this question around how much china has gone from being a sort of rhetorical enabler of russia's war in ukraine to an actual enabler of russia's war in ukraine. there is certainly a sense among european ally, as well as americans, that now is the time to take more concrete steps around china's support for russia. this is what joe biden wants to be talking about, and he seemed very uncomfortable and, therefore, unconvincing on the age. the problem is, age is not a communications problem for joe biden. it is an actual problem. you know, hearing the continued gaslighting this morning from the campaign, as if it's just some fantasy of the media's imagination, you know, the reason he's having this problem is because of voters' concerns

about his age. two-thirds of americans, millions of democrats, millions of biden voters are worried about his age. they're not complaining about his record. i think that's the sort of misleading aspect of this conversation, frankly. >> yeah, susan, i want to ask a question to mike schmidt, but i'll say, this is not just 75% of the country. it's a fact that large majorities of people in the country have been concerned about joe biden's age since three years. this is the third quarter of 2021, we've seen a majority of people and majority of democrats who thought that joe biden was too old to do forward. it's been the biggest political obstacle. it's not something the media made up. mike schmidt, i want to ask you about, you know, the calls coming from inside the house. i do -- this is the thing -- there is an element here i think it'd be helpful to people who don't fully understand the way that the biden -- the way that biden world functions, and people who, in this moment, this pitched moment where the media

is being accused of various forms of conspiracy, talk a little bit about what it means when you say, in the piece you wrote yesterday, that your team put out, the news you broke, about the fact there are senior biden advisors who are not in the innermost inner circle but are close enough to the president, what does that mean? i think there are a lot of normal people reading a story like that and saying, well, you know, of course they found somebody in the white house who said or someone in the campaign. who knows? that could be someone who takes out the garbage who said these things. give some texture to where this concern is emanating. how senior are people in biden world are that have the view that he no longer has a path and should step down. do you think anything will change for them on the base of what happened at the press conference last night? >> i think as we point out, this is not something that, like, hunter or jill or members of the

family who seem to have a lot of sway and seem to be in the room and were hunkered down with the president in the days after the debate are saying. we even say in the story, it's not clear that this has reached the president himself. but biden's world is made up of different tiers of folks that are around him. we would not have written this story if it was just random aides and advisors or surrogates that were out there saying this. you know, we thought that these were -- we know who these people are. they're serious people. this was not just, you know, some idle folks. these were people that have been with him for a long time and understand the political realities of the moment. they are not the family. the question here is, will those people be able to, you know, pierce the president's, you know, thoughts and convictions here and convince him otherwise? that's the standoff that we find

ourselves in as we enter this third week. it's, you know, will -- whether it's publicly or privately or through polling data or whatever, will the president's views change? as you saw last night, he is entrenched. the reporting shows behind the scenes, maybe he is as entrenched as he's ever been. a larger point about the interest of the stories, obviously, the acuity of the president of the united states is hugely important, but it is not something that we deal with a lot. in this country, if there are questions about whether someone broke the law, there's a whole process in the justice department to come in, investigate that, and provide the public with a sense of, here are the facts, here's the law, and here's what we know. this is an unusual situation. we don't have a lot of view into the president's medical care. there's not a department that can come in here and that is going to give the president a clean bill of health that would necessarily give the public the comfort it is looking for.

instead, we're forced to look for different clues. well, how did he perform last night? how many names did he forget? was he able to articulate? he was particularly good on foreign policy. what does that mean? i think that that leads to a lot of people, including myself, sitting back and trying to figure out, okay, like, where is the president in terms of acuity and his capabilities of doing this? you have to rely on anecdotes and rely on people that have talked to the president and what they have seen. that's just different than a lot of other political problems that we see. that's sort of the nature of the crisis and the standoff we're in. >> fascinating piece. it's up now in "the new york times." "new york times" investigative reporter michael schmidt and staff writer at "the new yorker," susan glasser, thank you, both, so much. coming up, key members of the trump campaign do not want joe biden to drop out of the race. "the atlantic's" tim alberta joins us ahead with his new report. "morning joe" will be right back.

(♪♪) with wet amd, i worry i'm not only losing my sight, but my time to enjoy it. but now, i can open up my world with vabysmo. (♪♪) vabysmo is the first fda-approved treatment for people with wet amd that improves vision and delivers a chance for up to 4 months between treatments, so i can do more of what i love. (♪♪) (♪♪) vabysmo works differently, it's the only treatment

designed to block 2 causes of wet amd. vabysmo is an eye injection. don't take it if you have an infection, active eye swelling, or are allergic to it. treatments like vabysmo can cause an eye infection or retinal detachment. vabysmo may cause a temporary increase in eye pressure after receiving the injection. there is an uncommon risk of heart attack or stroke associated with blood clots. severe swelling of blood vessels in the eye can occur. most common eye side effects were cataract and broken blood vessels. open up your world with vabysmo. a chance for up to 4 months between treatments with vabysmo. ask your doctor.

a new piece in "the atlantic" takes readers behind the scenes. tim alberta spoke with campaign managers at different point over the last two months. details the discussions in a piece entitled, "trump is planning for a landslide win." tim joins us now. good to see you. you, as usual, did a deep dive,

spent about six months talking to the people running the campaign. you now say they are preparing for a landslide win. why do you say that? >> hey, good morning, willie. thanks for having me. you know, what's really interesting is that from the opening moments of my opening conversations with chris lacivita and susie wiles, it became clear their confidence about this race was rooted in joe biden, not in donald trump. in other words, they had begun to conceptualize a campaign here that was really built around running a very specific race against a very specific opponent in joe biden. what they've done over the past six months or so is really try to optimize the campaign against joe biden. everything they've done in terms of messaging, targeting of

voters, the internet memes they're creating, everything they are doing as a campaign has really been built around not beating a generic democrat but beaten biden and attacking his very particular vulnerabilities. so when you suddenly, in these last couple of weeks, have a realization inside the trump campaign that biden could be getting out, whether it's kamala harris or anyone else replacing him at the top of the ticket, it has sent a chill through the trump campaign because they recognize that their own candidate is deeply flawed and deeply unpopular, but they felt as though they had basically boxed biden in and were in a position where they were getting ready to run the table across the battleground states and win a very, very solid, maybe even sort of resounding victory in the electoral college, because they didn't think that joe biden would be able to recover from the position he was in. >> you know, we've seen it in

recent days, former president trump attacking vice president harris, perhaps anticipating that if there is a change, she would be at the top of the ticket. he projected confidence about a race against her, but are they actually as confident as they sound about the potential for running against kamala harris? >> you know, i'm not sure that they are, willie. they told me, trump's campaign managers said, look, you know, any democrat who replaces biden at the top of the ticket is going to inherit his baggage. you know, we're going to attack all the same weaknesses. that person is going to have all the same vulnerabilities. but, again, i would just stress, so much of what they've built this campaign around is basically a machine to contrast the visuals of sort of trump's, you know, ability to do rallies

for an hour and a half versus biden and his debate performance. all of the sort of viral memes they're creating, all of the mailers they're doing, the television spots they've already begun to conceptualize, they're focused on biden's age and his capacities. they can't do that with kamala harris. it is a very different situation. they also recognize that some of the targeting of voters that they have been planning would have to necessarily change if kamala harris were at the top of the democratic ticket. so there is just fundamentally sort of a strategic and tactical reset if biden is not their opponent. >> tim, this is a smart and deeply reported piece. i'm just shocked, frankly, that you got the access. because part of the superpower of these two campaign managers, susie wiles and chris lacivita, is they don't talk on the record and haven't been out publicly as

the face of the campaign. how and why did they give you so much access? >> well, at the risk of giving away any of my secrets, i think i would just say that, you know, once these folks realize that you're going to be able to get to everyone else and talk to everyone else and find out, frankly, the things they don't want you to find out, then they start to realize it's probably in their best interest to cooperate and participate and try to at least, you know, control some piece of the narrative, to the extent they're able. so, you know, i had spent quite a bit of time already sort of tunnelling into trump world and knew a lot of the other people involved and had a pretty good accepts sense of what was going on. when i said, listen, i think it is probably in your best interest to have these conversations with me yourselves on the level, they ultimately agreed. >> tim, in this piece, for "the

atlantic," it is an incredible piece of reporting, you write, in part, talking about chris and susie, "they would be remembered for running a campaign that altered the nation's political dna." you also write you were struck by their arrogance. talk about that. >> yeah. look, we've come off consecutive presidential elections. you know, in 2016, donald trump wins the presidency by a combined 77,744 votes in michigan, wisconsin, pennsylvania. four years later, joe biden wins the presidency by a combined 42,918 votes presidency by 49,2 across the united states, and i think we were just expecting, all of us, that this would be yet enough cliffhanger here in 2024, but the trump people from day one have operated under a very different theory. chris las vita looked at the trump campaign and recognized that they were in many ways,

clown shows. they were not well managed. they were not well budgeted. there was not sort of a unified theory of how to attack his opponent. these are two very, very smart and shrewd political operators and frankly they are both cutthroat political operators. these are people who know how to win elections, and what they saw from day one was an opportunity to paint joe biden in such a devastating, debilitating light that they would not just be squeaking by in the electoral college, but that they would be winning comfortably in the electoral college, and that they would be even winning the popular vote, something republicans have only done once in the last eight tries, and what was interesting to see, you guys, is that over the last couple of months, they saw their plans really starting to take form and they were shifting and it was clear what they were doing was working. they went from feeling sort of confident about their ability to

win big. they suddenly got pretty cocky about it and they started talking openly using words like landslide and blowout in some of other conversations. >> those are words that political operatives usually do not use in public. willie, we should also just note that maybe this time will be different, but in the past, donald trump has not reacted well when his aides, when his advisers suddenly get the spotlight and attention. it's not just steve bannon, but his own son-in-law, jared kushner. we'll have to see if there is blowback. >> that's right. he doesn't like profiles of other people on the cover of mag -- magazines other than himself. the new piece is entitled "trump is planning for a land side win." jeff mason asked president biden the first question at last night's news conference. he'll join us with his takeaways. plus, a member of the

member's inner circle. ron klain will be our best on what he's hearing behind the scenes. and as we head to break coming up this weekend, on "sunday today" over on nbc, my special two-part sitdown with the great billy joel out on his native long island, walking the docks, checking out his boats, and talking about 50 years of music. a man who has sold more than 160 million albums. my conversation with billy joel coming up this weekend over on nbc "sunday today," and we'll be right back here on "morning joe." today," and we'll be right back here on "morning joe.

we planned well for retirement, but i wish we had more cash. you think those two have any idea? that they can sell their life insurance policy for cash? so they're basically sitting on a goldmine? i don't think they have a clue. that's crazy! well, not everyone knows coventry's helped thousands of people sell their policies for cash. even term policies. i can't believe they're just sitting up there! sitting on all this cash. if you own a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more, you can sell all or part of it to coventry. even a term policy. for cash, or a combination of cash and coverage, with no future premiums. someone needs to tell them, that they're sitting on a goldmine, and you have no idea! hey, guys! you're sitting on a goldmine! come on, guys! do you hear that? i don't hear anything anymore. find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the

number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com. (♪♪) [smash] picky cat? at chewy, we have cat food for any cat mood. chewy's here! find the food they'll love at prices you'll love. and get it delivered to your door again and again. [thud] [purring]

it's mine. you, ok? yeah, are you ok? we're fine. my serve.

maybe we should stop. this pinewood pickleball champ stops for no one. we got our melons checked. she had a concussion. admitting i was wrong is worse than losing at pickleball. saving your brain is a definite win. don't mess with your melon. if you hit it, get it checked. while president biden was meeting with world leaders yesterday, donald trump welcomed hungary's nationalist prime minister victor orban to mar-a-lago. it comes less than a week after he met with russian president vladimir putin. we will show you that contrast straight ahead when "morning joe" comes back in just two minutes. when "morning joe" comes back in just two minutes. could've held me back. but i'm staying focused. and doing more to prevent recurrence. verzenio is specifically for hr-positive, her2-negative, node-positive early breast cancer with a high chance of returning, as determined by your doctor

when added to hormone therapy. verzenio reduces the risk of recurrence versus hormone therapy alone. diarrhea is common, may be severe, or cause dehydration or infection. at the first sign, call your doctor, start an antidiarrheal, and drink fluids. before taking verzenio, tell your doctor about any fever, chills, or other signs of infection. verzenio may cause low white blood cell counts, which may cause serious infection that can lead to death. life-threatening lung inflammation can occur. tell your doctor about any new or worsening trouble breathing, cough, or chest pain. serious liver problems can happen. symptoms include fatigue, appetite loss, stomach pain, and bleeding or bruising. blood clots that can lead to death have occurred. tell your doctor if you have pain or swelling in your arms or legs, shortness of breath, chest pain and rapid breathing or heart rate, or if you are nursing, pregnant, or plan to be. i'm focusing on what counts. talk to your doctor about reducing your risk. ♪

dave's company just scored about reducing your risk. the comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. high five! high five! -i'm in a call... it's 5 years of reliable, gig speed internet... five years of advanced security... five years of a great rate that won't change. yep, dave's feeling it. but it's only for a limited time. five years? -five years? introducing the comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. powering 5 years of savings. powering possibilities. president bidn continues to dominate the news. the whispers about him dropping out of the race are getting

louder. they're getting so loud biden can almost hear them. >> we're learning today that some biden advisers are figuring out how to convince him to step aside. that will not be easy. they're thinking about putting a klondike bar on a string and pulling it down pennsylvania avenue. come on. let's go. >> biden's conference today was a big deal because it was unscripted like the whole country got invited to our grandpa's level 1 improv class. a look at some of the late night shows talking about president biden last night. the president hoped to overcome that poor debate performance a couple of weeks ago and concerns about his mental acuity with the news conference last night at the close of the nato summit. he did have some gaffes, but also showed strong command of key issues particularly on foreign policy. behind the scenes though, advisers and close allies are said to be making the case for why he should step aside. we'll go through our new reporting from nbc news. also on capitol hill, more

democratic lawmakers calling on the president to withdraw from the race over concerns he cannot defeat donald trump in november. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is friday, july 12th. i'm willie geist. we have the host of "way to early," jonathan lemire, msnbc contributor mike barnicle, pulitzer prize-winning columnist, eugene robinson and president emeritus richard haass. our reporters coming in in just a moment. let's dive into joe biden's high-stakes press conference last night on the final day of the nato summit in washington. as more members of his own party call for him to exit the race, the president took questions from reporters for nearly an hour yesterday and gave no indication he plans to end his campaign. in fact, the contrary. >> how the next two weeks go, will that affect your decision or are you fully determined on running in november as the party's nominee?

>> i'm determined on running, but i think it's important that i lay fears -- i let them see me out there. i'm going to be going around, making the case with things that i think we have to finish, and how we can't afford to lose what we've done or things on civil rights, civil liberties, women's rights, that little button we have. control guns, not girls. i mean, the idea we're sitting around. that's where kamala's so good as well. we're sitting around. more children are killed by a bullet than any other cause of death. the united states of america, what the hell are we doing? what are we doing? we've got a candidate promising saying, don't worry. i'm not going to do anything. i'm not going to do anything. we've got a supreme court that is what you might call the most conservative court in american

history. this is ridiculous. >> the presidency is the most straining job in the world, and it's 24/7. how can you say you'll be up for that next year, in two years, in four years, given the limits you've acknowledged you have? >> the limits i've acknowledged i have? >> there's been reports that you have to go to bed earlier, around 8:00. >> that's not true. look. what i said was instead of my everyday starting at 7:00 and going to bed at midnight, it would be smarter for me to pace myself a little more, and i said for example, the 8:00, 7:00, 6:00 -- instead of starting the fund-raiser at 9:00, start at 8:00. people get to go home at 10:00. have you looked at my schedule since i made that stupid mistake of -- in the campaign -- in the do it debate?

i mean, my schedule has been full boar. i'm filling out a scorecard before it hits the ball? >> how do you reassure the american people you won't have more bad nights, whether it be on a debate stage or it's a matter of foreign policy? >> i tell you what. the best way to assure them is the way i assure myself, and that is, am i getting the job done? am i getting the job done? can you name me somebody who's gotten more major pieces of legislation passed in the last 3 1/2 years? i created 2,000 jobs just this last week. so if i slow down, i can't get the job done. that's a sign that i shouldn't be doing it, but there's no indication of that yet. >> you earlier explained confidence in your vice president. >> yes. >> if your team came back and showed you data that she would fare better against former president donald trump, would you reconsider your decision to stay in the race?

>> no, unless they came back and said, there's no way you can win, me. no one's saying that. no poll says that. >> the president last night speaking for nearly an hour there at that press conference at the end of the nato summit. so eugene robinson, we did have a couple more democrats in the house come out just after that press conference and say that joe biden needed to step aside despite a performance that i think most people believe was obviously much, much better than the debate performance. you couldn't get much worse than that, but he looked and sounded better last night than he has recently. so what is your sense? did that do anything to at least buy him some time? did that do anything to change minds of people who were worried about him? >> well, you know, we'll see how much time it bought him. i mean, congressman jim himes from connecticut came out with his statement calling on president biden to step aside

minutes after the press conference ended. the press conference itself, i thought was good. i mean, it was pretty good for biden in that he showed a mastery of foreign policy that he has exhibited for many years, little flubs were the same flubs that joe biden has been making for 30, 40 years. nothing to see there. the problem, of course, is that he's trying to unring the bell that was rung in the debate, and that's a very difficult task. the other problem is that his numbers, you know, "the washington post" poll that came out yesterday showed him tied with donald trump nationally. that was kind of an outlier. most of the polls -- respectable

polls have him a bit behind. the average polls has him three points behind, and in 2016 and in 2020 when we got to election day, there trump voters showed up who hadn't really been found by the pollsters. he did a bit better than predicted. four years ago at this point, biden was ahead of trump by nine points, and so those are also data points that don't inspire a lot of confidence among democrats, especially democrats on the hill who were worried about their own races. >> so we had just a few moments ago, a new poll came out. we talked about that "washington post" poll yesterday that showed the president tied with former president trump. this morning, it shows joe biden up two points on donald trump in

a national race. that's within the margin of error, and the problem is in the swing states where donald trump has widened his lead a little bit in places that frankly, joe biden has to win. there's no option anymore. the margin of error is so small he has to win places like wisconsin and michigan and pennsylvania. there's no other path to victory. you have called over the last couple of weeks, richard, for the president to step aside, to make way for another candidate because you don't believe that joe biden can beat donald trump and the stakes are too high. what did you make of what you saw last night? did it do anything to change your mind? >> the short answer is no, but let me tell you how i got there, willie. i thought like you all, the president did a really good job last night on foreign policy that was a sophisticated, thoughtful, nuanced conversation of some really complex issues. let's just say that. very few people in public or private life could have sustained that kind of conversation. the president was though, there were still some flubs which people have focused on.

he still comes off -- the affect is still someone who's old, his voice, whatever it is. foreign policy is not a subject many americans wake up ready to focus on, but i think he probably strengthened the odds. not settled it, but increased the odds he will be the candidate, but he's still got five weeks until the convention. that pot still boils. the real question is should he be the candidate, and there i still have doubts. i'll be honest with you. he can't do anything about the fact he's an incumbent in an era in which almost every incumbent has lost. if you look at india, south africa, britain, france, it's a rough time to be an incumbent. the issues i've heard of given the history of the border and immigration, gaza even if we are getting some progress there. food prices are still higher than they were 3 1/2 years ago, and the age issue is just one that you can never, ever, ever put behind you 100%. he's always one flub away, one

trip away, and if the whole goal is to make this a referendum on donald trump, i don't think he's there, and the other candidates on the democratic side would be better positioned to make this a referendum on donald trump. i'm not sure how joe biden ever turns the corner to this is not a referendum on him, and if it is a referendum on him, he's not going to be the next president of the united states. >> jonathan, the flubs that richard's referring to referred to vice president harris as vice president trump mistakenly, and earlier standing with president zelenskyy, introduced him as president putin before correcting himself and making a joke about it. there were those moments. yes, he was better than the debate. that's a pretty low bar. that's a point that congressman himes made. he simply can't go on as democrats which is holding your breath every time the president speaks or goes out in public.

he believes the stakes are so high if donald trump becomes president, if republicans win the house and the senate, if there are more supreme court justices appointed by donald trump, the country is changed for generations, and many democrats saying publicly now, many, many of them saying privately they just don't think and the poll show, at this point, that joe biden won't win in a matchup with donald trump. so how is the white house, the people you talk to every day, feeling after yesterday's press conference? >> well, first of all, fair or not, every time president biden does a public appearance, he will be under intense scrutiny, although those in the white house believe donald trump should be as well. those in the biden campaign and the white house definitely feeling better. late last night, they have in a couple of weeks, they do think the president -- yes, a few flubs aside, and there was panic over text message when he did make those mistakes, but mostly i feel like he was good last night. he was in command. he had good issue, good control of foreign policy issues, complex foreign policy issues,

but also i just thought he looked strong. he looked vigorous. he looked like someone who could handle this campaign, but you're right. the democratic worry continues. the president has a campaign event in michigan today. that will be closely watched. he sets down with our friend lester holt monday for another wide-ranging interview. let's see how he does there. there are still some powerful forces in the democratic party that think that the party needs to turn the page. it's just simply too soon to say whether or not he stemmed the bleeding. you expect more from the democrats in days to come. a narrowing path, the biden campaign put out a memo yesterday. the president did take a hit after the debate. they still see paths to win and they acknowledge it has to be through pennsylvania, michigan, and wisconsin. that might now be his only path to victory, and mike barnicle, we shouldn't lose sight of what a moment last night was. i don't think we've seen before where a sitting president had a

primetime news conference to defend his mental and physical abilities while trying to stave off a mutiny from his own party. >> yeah. what's amazing to me is the amount of attention we pay in the media, all of us, to the flubs, you know, vice president trump instead of vice president harris, things like that. that stuff has come with the dinner with joe biden for 40 years, and regarded each and every time he makes a flub, it's shocking. it's not shocking. what's truly shocking in terms of balance and you referenced it, is donald trump's not flubs, his incendiary rhetoric, rhetoric aimed at dividing the country, at turning one group of people against another group of people, of threatening institutions like nato, of threatening a country like

ukraine, things like that. we pay less attention to his rhetoric than we do, oh my god. he called her vice president trump. no. we have to get our act together and balance this thing out. >> well, we do as you know very well, mike, for four long hours every morning, we talk about donald trump, about everything he proposes and all the damage he's done and could do further and we're going to do a deep dive in just a few minutes into project 2025 as well. let's bring in nbc news kara lee and ali vitali, and let's start with you and your new reporting from your colleagues at nbc news. the headline of which is this. "no one involved in the effort thinks he has a path: biden insiders say the writing is on the wall." you say the set of democrats who think he should stay in the race has grown now to his own aides, operatives, and officials tasked with guiding his campaign to

victory. what more can you tell us this morning, carol? >> well, willie, what we learned in talking to a number of sources is that there are people who are around the president who are -- it's not just lawmakers outside of the president's circle. it's not just democrats out in states or party leaders. it is people who are actually working on the president's re-election effort who privately are saying after two weeks since the debate that this just isn't something that he can turn around, that their view is they're looking at numbers. they're looking at the money from donors that's dropping off. they're already reassessing to downgrade what their expectations are for bringing in money, fund-raiing for this month. they're already cutting back on certain fund-raisers in terms of the number of people who are going to be there, and how much money they're going to raise. they're looking at this whole set of data and saying that this is not a winnable situation, and that this is not something that the president can turn around

and believe that he needs to get out of the race, and they also believe that he needs to do so rather quickly, that it's not something that can continue to drag out, and i think when you're talking about the president's press conference last night, what people like this are thinking, putting the president out there is something that the white house has to do. this is what democrats say they want, but it's as much part of their solution as it is their problem because when democrats are watching what the president is doing, there's anxiety. there's, like, hanging on his every word waiting for something to happen, and thinking to themselves, how are we judging this and going forward, and doing a basic thing that comes with the job which is holding a news conference, and then they're asking the question of, is this sustainable? how can -- he has to get it right every time for the next four months and that's not something including democrats people who are working and like the president and support him

and want him to women this race, they just don't believe he has the capacity to do over the next four months, and they don't think that this is winnable. >> you add in maybe a slowdown in fund-raiing so the swing state polls tipping toward donald trump, and the aides in your piece say it's unsustainable. you also suggested the biden campaign was quietly looking at head to head matchups with kamala harris. the vice president of the united states against donald trump. what more can you tell us about that? >> this is the first time that they have done this sort of polling, and obviously it comes at a precarious time. the timing is pretty interesting. now what officials are saying is that this is -- they're doing this because former president trump that has started to attack the vice president, that it's based on that, but putting the vice president up against the former president in a hypothetical head to head matchup is a significant thing, and whatever that data shows, if

you draw the line back to what president biden said last night in his press conference where he said, you know, he was asked if he was shown data that showed his vice president could beat former president trump and he said, he would look at data and if he was told that he couldn't win, then maybe he would consider dropping out, but nobody's said that. all of that aside, the idea here is that this is something that's coming at a time when there are huge questions about whether the president's going to stay in the race. it's the president's own campaign doing that. i can tell you there are some frustrations this got out. they don't like this. it's not a narrative they want out there, but they're doing it. >> i want to add to carol's excellent reporting. the polling about vice president harris could be interpreted as a possible change at the top of the ticket, and it could be if kamala harris wouldn't beat donald trump, and that would

strengthen his argument to tay atop the ticket. there are people who firmly believe she can't do it, though they feel she has grown as a candidate, but they're not con vinced she can beat president biden -- president trump -- former president trump, and there's certainly a number of democrats and officials who do. some even linked to the biden campaign who are openly questioning about whether or not he can continue, but to be clear, his immediate family and his inner circle, those advisers who make the big decisions around the president, they're firmly convinced he should stay in and they think he can win. >> that's what we saw last night in that press conference. there was no wiggle room at least last night from the president about whether or not he stays in the race. ali, let's swing up to capitol hill, the place you cover every day. the mood of democrats as we mentioned, a couple more democratic defections yesterday from president biden after the press conference saying it's time to move on. it's time for him to step aside, and let's get vice president harris or a different candidate

in there to beat donald trump. they say not because they don't admire and respect joe biden and his administration, and the work he's done, but because they simply think he can't beat donald trump. so what else are you hearing in the hours after that press conference last night? >> i think this conversation for the last 20 minutes hits on something that's so central to the main point on capitol hill, which is, i haven't talked to anyone who's a staffer, who's an operative, who's an elected who doesn't say some form of the sentence, i love joe biden, but -- those electability concerns are so palpable. this panic has been so protracted. there was just a real sense on the hill yesterday i think of despair both with the people who have come forward like senator peter welch to say, i think he needs to step down all the way to members who have privately expressed their concerns, but don't want to come forward publicly. either because they don't think that it's going to be persuasive to the president so why bother or because they don't know if they're there yet. they have such concerns about who, if not biden can beat

donald trump because again, all roads lead to democrats stressing the need to avoid a second trump presidency because of things like project 2025, because of the role that trump has played and takes credit for on stripping women of abortion protections and reproductive health care act set, but what congressman jim himes said, when he explained why he came out in the minutes after that press conference, why he's saying biden shouldn't be the nominee, this is part of what he says, and there's one other thing he says that i notice. listen here first. >> i have been with the president on a number of occasions and i have looked as those numbers. no president has ever been re-elected with the disapproval ratings, love him as we do has. i will not stand silent as i see a trajectory to an electoral loss that leads to the presidency of donald trump and all that he has promised. i've done a lot of political

campaigns, and the one attribute of every single campaign, and i've seen hundreds of them, is that right up until the moment that the numbers are in, and you've lost, you believe that you will win. >> you guys also touched on this, ands the something that the congressman later said. it's this idea that everything that president biden does between the debate and election day is going to be picked apart, scrutinized. any mistake will be much more massive, and that's something that congressman himes said. this idea that you can't just jump from presidential appearance to presidential appearance with an entire party weighing whether or not this is the moment they should all jump ship and it's the question that i have been asking lawmakers. how much longer can you guys do this without utterly kneecapping the man who right now has decided he is your nominee? i have to tell you, none of have answered that question. i asked top democratic house member hakeem jeffries yesterday. how much longer can you let your caucus air their grievances and

drip by drip come out and say they don't think biden should be the nominee? he said, it's a constructive family conversation. that's been the line all week, but none of the lawmakers want to grade the president on a curve and i can bet you voters don't either. >> as we have been saying this week, ali, this is -- people of good faith who want one thing. >> exactly. >> that is to beat donald trump. congressman himes is a guy we respect a lot. obviously a very smart guy. he comes on our show all the time. he doesn't believe donald trump can be defeated by president biden. others say, well, joe biden is the guy who beat donald trump and he can do it again despite all the shortcomings we see out in the open. so is there some moment, and who is the person? is it hakeem jeffries? is it nancy pelosi? is it former president obama behind the scenes? are there meetings? are there conversations? is there a moment where the party comes together and says, this is our decision, this is the plan? we're either standing with the president or the vast majority of us believe he should step aside. does that moment ever come in. >> it really needs to but the i

think the goal posts and the timeline keeps moving because first it was, all right. his first appearance after the debate. let's see how that goes. then it was the stephanopoulos interview. then it became, let's see how the press conference goes last night. how it's become, all right. well, the rnc, the republican convention is next. democrats come back to the hill. certainly by then, if democrats haven't said all they need to say by then, then we'll have to see what happens. there is this moving goal post and metric, and i think what's so hard is it's an unquantifiable thing. every lawmaker that i have talked to, i have asked the same question that you're asking me. you say, do more, what does that mean? when you need to see something, what does that look like? there's no tangible answer to this because really what you're solving for here is vibes, mood. people don't feel good. there is such a sense of despair that has been hanging over the capitol as i have been working the halls the last few days, and that is not something that you can solve by data. it's not something that makes -- it's a feeling.

it's not a fact, right? and so i think that's what people are looking for, and i have to say i mean, you look at the fact that top biden campaign officials went to capitol hill to meet with very nervous senators yesterday, and i know senators left that meeting saying, oh, well, they asked us not to leak. we're not going to give details, but the only thing we did end up hearing about was the fact it got heated when it came to pressing the biden officials on what a path forward looks like, and i can tell you we all know the way lawmakers work. if that meeting had gone really well, they would have said that it went really well, and that's not what we heard in the halls. there were people who said, yes. i feel a little bit nervous going in, or i feel better now. the race was going to be close. it sort of feels honestly like 2020 when all i heard was voters was, okay. i want the best person to beat trump, the best person to beat trump. biden got the benefit of the doubt on that, and it's open to see whether or not he gets it again here. >> and the truth is no one knows what happens.

>> and you can't know. >> both ways are a gamble. staying with president biden might be a gamble. the unknown obviously is a gamble. ali vitali and carol lee, outstanding reporting as usual from both of you. thank you for being here this morning. still ahead on "morning joe," we will dig into what joe biden said he accomplished at the nato this week. compare that with the split screen of hungary's authoritarian leader victor orban visiting donald trump last night. we're back in 90 seconds. donalt night. we're back in 90 seconds

for those that thought nato's tyrant passed, they got a rude awakening when putin invaded ukraine. some of the oldest and deepest fears in europe roared back to life because once again, a murderous madman was on the march, but this time, a coward especially in the united states. in february, some of you remember i warned the world that the invasion was imminent. i rallied the coalition of 50 nations from europe to asia to help ukraine defend itself. many foreign policy experts thought, as putin amassed russian forces just 100 miles north of kyiv, the capital of

ukraine, but he thought -- putin thought it was the mother home of russia. the capital would fall in less than a week, but the ukrainian people backed by a coalition to help build stopped them. today, kyiv still stands, and nato stands stronger than it has ever been. meanwhile, my predecessor has made it clear he has no commitment to nato. he's made it clear that he would feel no obligation to article v. he's already told, putin, and i quote, do whatever the hell you want. in fact, the day after putin invaded ukraine, here's what he said. it was genius. it was wonderful. some of you forgot that, but that's exactly what he said, but i've made it clear. a strong nato is essential to american security, and i believe the obligation of article v is

sacred. >> president biden speaking at length last night about nato, and its strengthening under his administration. that was at the close of this week's summit commemorating the 75th anniversary of nato. meanwhile, hungarian prime minister viktor orban traveled to meet with donald trump. he posted this last night saying, we discussed ways to make peace. the good news of the day, he's going to solve it. trump also made news posting, there must be peace and quickly. this is his second time visiting mar-a-lago since march. he has publicly endorsed donald trump for president saying trump could bring an end to the war in ukraine though he does not specify how. orban's visit comes days after he traveled to moscow to meet with vladimir putin and beijing to meet with xi jinping. richard haass, can we start first with who viktor orban is?

he's an authoritarian leader, but why it's so important he would travel from beijing to moscow and directly to mar-a-lago? >> he's significant, willie, for two reasons. one is domestically. if you look at what he's done inside of hungary, he has dismantled some of the fabric of hungarian democracy and civil society. so he represents what's called illiberal democracy, and a lot of people see it a model of what donald trump would do if given the chance here in terms of weaponizing or politicizing the organs of government for his own political purposes, for changing the balance between government and society and all that, and then secondly, orban is a model and in a second way in his foreign policy. he also does the authoritarian romance, whether it's china or russia, and he's been remarkably through all the members of nato, he's been by far the moat

sympathetic to putin, almost a neutral between the west and putin or even slightly leaning towards it, which again, who does that sound like? it sounds like donald trump, and you look at a lot of the people in trump world. they have all sorts of ties to hungary, organizationally and personally. so if you want to get a glimpse of a trumpian future, what he would do here, what he would do there, and foreign policy, i think viktor orban is the place to look. that's why it's so significant. >> could you spell that out a little more, the threat to the existing order, to what president biden and nato are actually trying to do in ukraine, to save ukraine, just off of that one photo? viktor orban with donald trump in mar-a-lago, the threat that that poses to the existing order? >> look. the only way -- take it one step back. the president said what i think was important last night. 2 1/2 years ago when russia went into ukraine in february of 2022, here we are 2 1/2 years later. this has been a remarkable, remarkable accomplishment.

essentially ukraine has stood up and fought the russians to a stalemate with american and european help. nobody thought this was possible. the question is whether they're going to be -- continue to be able to do that. we saw what happened and the house republicans cut off aid. so the real question is, can we persuade vladimir putin? if putin thinks time is his friend, it'll shorten. he wants to eradicate ukraine as a western-oriented slavic country. putin hates the idea of ukraine as an alternative model for a slavic country that's liberal with ties to nato, with ties to the eu. his goals are much more than territorial. we have to convince him that time is not a strength. we're going to stand by ukraine with as much as it takes for as long as it takes, so putin cannot eradicate it, and what's the question now because of people like orban and obviously trump is whether that will be the days. nothing will happen before the

american election, but if trump wins, putin will say, why compromise? i'm going to press ahead, and the issue then is whether donald trump as a president would give ultimatum to zelenskyy and others that they couldn't accept. essentially saying you have got to agree to, like, for example, that you would never be a member of nato. you have to give up all your territorial claims here and so forth. this would be a real chris for -- crisis, for the west and ukraine. >> richard haass, thanks so much as always. coming up next, a closer look at donald trump's ties to the far-right agenda known as project 2025. we'll get into the details of it when "morning joe" comes right back. details of it when "morning joe" comes right back

(♪♪) with wet amd, i worry i'm not only losing my sight, but my time to enjoy it. but now, i can open up my world with vabysmo. (♪♪) vabysmo is the first fda-approved treatment

for people with wet amd that improves vision and delivers a chance for up to 4 months between treatments, so i can do more of what i love. (♪♪) (♪♪) vabysmo works differently, it's the only treatment designed to block 2 causes of wet amd. vabysmo is an eye injection. don't take it if you have an infection, active eye swelling, or are allergic to it. treatments like vabysmo can cause an eye infection or retinal detachment. vabysmo may cause a temporary increase in eye pressure after receiving the injection. there is an uncommon risk of heart attack or stroke associated with blood clots. severe swelling of blood vessels in the eye can occur. most common eye side effects were cataract and broken blood vessels. open up your world with vabysmo. a chance for up to 4 months between treatments with vabysmo. ask your doctor. it's hard to run a business on your own. make it easier on yourself. with shopify, you have everything you need to sell online and in person. you can have your inventory, payments, and customers in

sync across all the places you sell. it doesn't have to be lonely at the top. join the millions to finding success on their own terms. start your journey with a free trial today.

do you think our democracy is under siege based on this court? do you think democracy is under siege based on project 2025? do you think he means what he says when he says he's going to do away with the civil service? eliminate the department of education? make -- i mean, we've never been here before, and that's the only reason why i didn't say -- hand off to another generation. i've got to finish this job. i've got to finish this job because there's so much at stake. >> president biden mentioning project 2025 in last night's news conference. his campaign increasingly has tried to connect donald trump with project 2025. it's a 900-plus page policy road map from the conservative think tank the heritage foundation. the proposal packed with far-right agenda items including abolishing the department of education, severe cuts to

medicaid. it says health and human services no longer should consider abortion as a former of health care. it expands deportation powers for the president and also it expands presidential powers elsewhere significantly. for example, independent agencies like the department of justice would answer almost entirely to the president. donald trump has tried to distance himself from project 2025 posting online last week, he knows nothing about it or who is behind it. you'll see in a moment why that is not true. he doubled down in a post yesterday claiming he had nothing to do with project 2025, but many of trump's key allies have been directly involved. in fact, project 2025 is staffed by more than 200 former officials of the trump administration. the former president even spoke about the group's plans at a dinner sponsored by the heritage foundation in april of 2022. >> because our country is going to hell. the critical job of institutions such as heritage is to lay the

groundwork and heritage does such an incredible job with that. this is a great group, and they're going to lay the groundwork and detail plans for exactly what our movement will do, and what your movement will do when the american people give us a colossal mandate to save america, and that's coming. that's coming. >> former president trump speaking to the heritage foundation. that was in april of 2022, just over two years ago. let's bring in nbc news correspondent, vaughn hillyard. flesh out a little bit for people who have heard the name project 2025. they've seen some of the headlines about it. if you can, get into some of the details and explain to people what exactly is in this document. it's almost 1,000 pages long. what it says, and really how close donald trump is tied to it. >> right, willie. i think number one, this is not just heritage foundation. this is a longtime conservative group that, you know, claims

that, hey. we did this back with ronald reagan back in 1980. we built a similar sort of conservative document, handed over to the reagan administration to implement on day one, and that's exactly what they intended to do with this 900-page document. essentially it's a playbook of how to operate the departments and the agencies, but there's 100 other allied groups that are involved in this project, including the likes of turning point usa and charlie kirk, the clairmont institute. russ vougt is putting together the platform for milwaukee next week. he's one of the key authors of this document, but you have the likes of john mcatee who is overseeing the data base of personnel they are implementing to pull from, in order to staff the thousands of jobs that will need to be filled by political appointees. who is he? he's a close personal aide to

donald trump in the white house, and then became the director of personnel. so in this database, they are currently having conservatives go and fill out essentially an application answering questions about their positions, and then that database is going to be able to be used to staff their -- trump white house in 2025, and what is unique about this is in two weeks before donald trump left office, he implemented what was called schedule f which transferred several political servant jobs and made them appointed positions. president biden rescinded that. donald trump and the heritage foundation project 2025 have committed to reimplementing that, and this could be upwards of 50,000 jobs. civil servants who could be fired and replaced by loyal donald trump supporters. so this is vast. it has been in the works for years, ever since 2022, and donald trump made those comments and now it is ready to be implemented by this next administration. coming up, former white

house chief of staff, ron klain, is standing by. he remains the top adviser to president biden. he joins our conversation to talk about last night's news conference and also the calls from president biden to leave the race. all of it when "morning joe" comes right back.

in 2020, you referred to yourself as being a bridge candidate for a younger, fresher generation of democratic leaders and i wanted to know what changed. >> what changed was the gravity of the situation i inherited in terms of the economy, our foreign policy, and domestic division. what i realized was my long time in the senate had equipped me to have the wisdom on how to deal with the congress to get things done. i got more major legislation

passed. no one thought it would happen, and i want to finish it, to get that finished. >> president biden in a news conference that lasted about 59 minutes last night at the end of the nato summit in washington. so john heilemann, obviously that performance was light years better than the debate performance two weeks ago, fwhaus a very low bar to clear for a president and probably not a great sign when the bulk of the questioning is about whether you should take a cognitive test or whether you're up to the job or whether he thinks that his vice president perhaps could step in for him at some point. we did see some democrats, a couple of them come out after the news conference. jim himes come out after the press conference saying he believes he cannot beat donald trump and therefore he should step aside. we may hear more of that over the next couple of days from house democrats. how is the party feeling after last night's press conference?

>> if you think about the two big media appearances he's done since the debate, one the stephanopoulos interview and one the debate, they both had a similar quality. this was a more impressive performance for sure. amidst all the questions, there were these policy questions. it was smart to put him out on the nato stage. he's obviously very comfortable there. when he gets foreign policy questions, he's nimble and adroit and able to answer questions certainly the way donald trump can't. the temperature of the resistance to joe biden are the people who would like him to leave the ticket is now based on the subsequent effects, the consequences of the debate,

which is the numbers. what you saw yesterday prior to this press conference was that in the house of representatives and the senate, the more data comes across the transom, more people there are convinced not only that he has a very narrow path if any path at all to win and that they will go down with him. the depth of conviction on that front among members of the democratic senate caucus is almost total. in the house, it's not as close to unanimous, but it's very high. ing i don't think the prss conference is going to change that. whether that leads what people will do over the next couple of days, that i don't know. you heard jim himes come out and say i think he did fine in the press conference. he was saying explicitly i have

reached a brutal conclusion, which is that joe biden is going to lose and he's going to take the house of representatives with him. i don't think that's a concern that should be dismissed. these are elected representatives hearing from their constituents and seeing things in the polls. whether they will at 17 now out of 435 members of congress and a smaller number of democrats, that's still not a groundswell in the public space. the question comes down to people like nancy pelosi. i'm not sure the press conference resolved anything. it's kind of like stephanopoulos. not bad enough to drive him off the ticket, not good enough t allay all the fears. coming up, jared polis of

colorado and kevin stitt will be with us. stitt will be with us.

we planned well for retirement, but i wish we had more cash. you think those two have any idea? that they can sell their life insurance policy for cash? so they're basically sitting on a goldmine? i don't think they have a clue. that's crazy! well, not everyone knows coventry's helped thousands of people sell their policies for cash. even term policies. i can't believe they're just sitting up there! sitting on all this cash. if you own a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more, you can sell all or part of it to coventry. even a term policy. for cash, or a combination of cash and coverage, with no future premiums. someone needs to tell them, that they're sitting on a goldmine, and you have no idea! hey, guys! you're sitting on a goldmine! come on, guys! do you hear that? i don't hear anything anymore. find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com.

coming up, our next guest shares the byline of today's lead story in the "new york times" "biden's isolation deepens as doubters' ranks grow. .

♪♪ it's a beautiful live picture of the golden gate bridge in san francisco. it's 6:02 in the morning. it is 9:02 here on the east coast as we welcome you in to the fourth hour of "morning joe." president biden gave no indication during a preference

last night he's even considering dropping out of the 2024 race despite growing calls from some democratic lawmakers and donors for him to step aside. peter alexander has the latest. >> reporter: this morning, reaction pouring in from president biden's doubters and defenders following that nearly hourlong news conference in which he suggests he can do the job for another four years. >> i'm not in this for my legacy. i'm in this to complete the job i started. >> reporter: also saying other people could win the election. >> other people could too, but start from scratch. >> reporter: would he get out of the race if kamala harris could beat donald trump? >> no. they said there's no way i could win. me. no poll says that. >> reporter: complementally information about his vice

president. >> this was a hell of a probability. this was a first-rate person. >> reporter: with anxious democrats and eager republicans watching every word with increased scrutiny on the president's abilities, his answers to the first question drawing attention when he misspoke. >> look. i wouldn't have picked vice president trump to be vice president but i think she's not qualified to be president. we'll start there. >> reporter: president trump and his allies immediately seizing on that mistake. right now donald trump is using that to mock your age and your memory. how do you combat that criticism from tonight? >> listen to him. >> reporter: it came after a similar misstep earlier in the day while introducing ukrainian president zelenskyy. but that time he got it. ladies and gentlemen, president putin. president putin? he's going to beat president putin. president zelenskyy. >> reporter: president biden was asked again whether he would take at neurological exam, not ruling it out in the future.

>> i'm not opposed if my doctors tell me i should have another neurological exam, i'll do it. >> reporter: and combatting reports that he needed to go to bed earlier. >> it would be smart to pace myself more. instead of starting a fundraiser at 9:00, 8:00. president biden riding on his golf cart filling out the score card before he hits the ball. >> reporter: he touted his accomplishmented at home. >> can you name somebody who's gotten more legislation passed in 3 1/2 years? >> reporter: three more democrats calling for the president to step aside. >> what americans feel in their bones right now suggests not only that joe biden would lose this race, but that he or we we would lose the senate and the house. >> reporter: other democrats satisfied. >> i think he convinced a lot of

people he should stay in the race. >> reporter: president biden's plans to quiet his critics? >> i'm determined on running, but i think it's important i allay fears and let them see me out there. >> peter alexander on the president's day in washington yesterday. joining us, former white house chief of staff for president biden ron klain. good to have you with us. you write, quote, it's time to end the freakout and unite behind the democratic nominee and the only person who has ever beaten trump. what are you seeing in polls? you're talking about the npr poll we mentioned earlier that showed joe biden up two points within the margin of error on donald trump. also the "washington post" poll shows them tied at 46-46 yesterday. of course, that's a national poll. what do you see that says joe biden should stay in the race?

>> we had a democratic process. voters went and voted in primary after primary and they nominated joe biden as the leader of the democratic ticket. this is not like a soccer game where a shadowy group on the sidelines get to run new players at the last minute. since the debate, we've had unprecedented support from grassroots across the country. the president has broad support across the country. he's the right person to take on donald trump. he's the only person who's beaten trump. he stands for working people, his working class roots. those are unique assets he brings to the race. i think he will continue to bring those assets to the race and beat trump this fall. >> there are people of good faith in the democratic party who really like and respect joe biden who are concerned about his age, and that's a reasonable argument, a reasonable criticism

that they worry about not just if he can win but his ability to serve over the next four years at his age. what do you say to those people who are not abandoning joe biden at this point, but who are deeply concerned about what they may see over the next four years? >> look at the press conference yesterday. you saw his command of foreign policy, his explanation -- look at his performance as president. he's brought nato together. it's larger than ever before. more border with russia than ever before to keep it from spreading. he got arab states to repel iran's attack on israel. i think the explanations of the policy issues he gave last night show that he's up to the job, that he's capable of governing and has unique skills.

we saw what chancellor schultz said, it's a mistake to underestimate joe biden. and president macron said joe biden is doing a great job as president of the united states. i think the american people could see his issues and his plans and agenda and what he'll do in the future. >> good morning. that npr poll largely positive for president biden does also contain this cross tab, that 36% of those surveyed think that joe biden has the mental fitness to serve while 50% think donald trump does. certainly the republicans have been hammering on this issue for years. how does the biden campaign combat something that feels so baked in right now? >> most voters in that poll thought joe biden should be reelected president. i think his fitness to serve is

proven by him serving with excellence and distinction and continue leading the world combatting russian aggression in ukraine, bringing prices down here at home, doing more to grow the economy, create jobs. the proof he can be president is that he is president. >> obviously the biden campaign is desperate to turn the page on that debate and get back to drawing contrasts with donald trump. it helps their cause that trump's about to be in the spotlight again. we anticipate he's going to name his vp choice at any time. of course, the republican convention starts monday. what should americans take from donald trump these next few days? >> you're going to see republicans try to run from and hide their project 2025 agenda, but trump's fingerprints are all over it. it's his people, his plan. as president biden said

yesterday, the american people should google project 2025 and what's in that, what donald trump would do as president. they're going to see the republicans speaking at the convention and see the maganess of the republican party. it's time for us to come together as a party, unite behind our nominee and proceed to get ready for the fall election. >> ron, all of these questions over the last two weeks stem from the debate performance that the president had against donald trump on the 27th of june. you were involved in preparing him for that debate. what can you say about the man you worked with in the week leading up to the debate and the man you saw on the stage? was that an aberration to you? were you surprised by what you saw in the debate? that really is what a lot of voters are trying to sort through. >> as the president said, he had a bad night. his practices were better.

he was tired from the back and forth travel across the world and was suffering from a cold that really constrained his voice and he was trying not to lose his voice which was very scratchy and very impacted by his cold. the president is absolutely sharp, fit, on top of his game. you don't have to take my word for it. we saw that in the press conference which is much more typical of what we saw in debate preparations. i worked for president obama. we had a horrible first debate in 2012. i think that sometimes presidents have bad debates. i promise you we'll have a better second debate. i think the president showed what he's capable of last night in this press conference. the voters see it every day as he governed, campaigns around the country. >> can you see why the idea that the president of the united states couldn't perform almost two weeks after he got home from

europe in a 90-minute debate might reenforce the questions about his ability to do his job? >> you saw him do the job. he got through the nato meetings with a new breakthrough for nato confronting russian aggression. the measure of being president is being president. we're not hiring a debater in chief. we're hiring a commander in chief, someone to stand for freedom here at home in the face of republicans trying to roll back women's rights. people see joe biden doing that. i think that's the measure of his fitness to be president, is the way he is president. >> finally, the national polls we looked at that are neck and neck within the margin of error the last two days do show some strength for president biden. there have been questions and concerns since the debate about the battleground state polls. he's still running effectively

with the margin of error in michigan, pennsylvania and wisconsin. what can you tell voters about what you see happens inside those battleground states? >> it's a close election. i said that a year ago. it's going to be a close election right to the very end. it's close in pennsylvania, michigan and wisconsin. he was in wisconsin recently. he's going out to michigan. and he obviously campaigns in pennsylvania regularly. we're going to continue to fight hard in those states. i think joe biden is uniquely suited to those states. he has identified with working people. he has the support of the auto workers which are critical in those states. he's brought manufacturing back to those states after decades of those states losing those jobs. manufacturing is on the increase in the heartland of our country for the first time in a long time thanks to the policies president biden put in place and his advocacy in working people. the man from scranton is taking

on the man from mar-a-lago. in the end he will win those three states as he did in 2020 and win other states as well of course. >> the president out on the road again today. former white house chief of staff for president biden ron klain. thanks so much for your time this morning. we appreciate it. >> thank you for having me. joining us now, jeff mason from reuters. what were you impressions being in the press conference? >> it was a charged atmosphere in the room. right before that press conference started or shortly before he switched up the names of president putin and president zelenskyy. we were all curious to see how it would go. he made a pretty sizable mistake in the answer to my question when he said vice president trump instead of vice president harris.

that was the beginning. it was a 50-minute press conference. he ended up taking on a bunch of questions about policy, about his health, about politics and covered a broad range of issues and sort of took it to trump in a way that he didn't on the night of the debate. i think broadly the white house was pleased with it. the campaign was pleased with it. i spoke with a campaign official last night who said, at the very least, he bought himself some time. buying yourself some time is not necessarily all you want to achieve from a press conference, but it's the reality of the political situation right now that biden faces that he needs some time. he needs to have more opportunities to reassure democrats who have been so worried in the last two weeks. >> let's talk about next steps. there were a few lawmakers who came out after the news conference who also still called for president biden to step

down. those statements were prewritten. that was about letting nato come and go out of respect for the summit that had nothing to do with the news conference. what democrats might go next after watching last night? as you know, the biden team is so desperate to turn the page and start drawing that contrast with trump again as they head into the rnc. what do we think? biden was confirmed last night. for the democrats who want him to go, how much more time do they have to make the case? >> i think you're right on a bunch of those things. certainly the fact that two or three lawmakers came out last night calling on him to leave, i think those statements were definitely ready and written before the press conference. the question is now who else drops? i think the fact that congressman clyburn was to supportive of president biden was a win. it didn't entirely look like

that in the two weeks after when he started talking aboutreassur. a few weeks is probably what he has. >> jeff, thank you so much. we appreciate it. today governors from across the country will gather in salt lake city for the second day of

the national governors association summer meeting. today's meeting will feature a discussion with ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy. he will be there in person in salt lake city to address officials there. joining us now, the incoming chair of the national governors association, colorado's democratic cover jared polis and oklahoma's republican governor kevin stitt. governors, it's great to have you with us. governor polis, i'll start with you and what you expect to hear from president zelenskyy, who's making the extraordinary step of flying across the united states west to salt lake city to be with you all before returning home to ukraine. >> he certainly brings some star power to our gathering of governors. governors have a strong interest in protecting and preserving the global order. governors are often effectively

ambassadors for economic development in our states. i know on behalf of ukraine, on behalf of defending europe, in colorado we collected over 800 bullet proof vests donated to ukraine. i know a lot of other states are strongly supportive of making sure we can defend our european allies. of course it's a moral imperative for democracy, but it's good for economic development. europe is our largest trading partner. making sure we have a peaceful, prosperous europe is not only in the american interest but all 50 states. we're looking forward to the discussion. >> also joining today along with president zelenskyy in a different session matthew mcconaughey. that's some line-up you have today. what is at the top of the agenda as you all sit together, democrats and republicans from states across the country? what are you hearing most from governors and the people in your state? >> thanks.

you know, the nga, we get together in a bipartisan effort to really work on real solutions. the solutions happen at the state level. as governors, we have a unique perspective. we just have to get work done. i tell oklahomans all the time we want the best education system for our kids. we want the best roads and bridges, best health care and then the best economy. i want oklahoma to be the most business friendly state in the country. so really the governors can work together in a bipartisan effort to really get projects done. i mean, that's why we talk about permitting reform. when you talk about all the investments and infrastructure investments that need to be done, we need to get permitting reform done. governors have a unique perspective. we really work in a bipartisan effort. i think that america really likes when democratic governor and a republican governor can sit together and talk about real issues in a bipartisan way. >> let's further that

conversation about working together in a bipartisan way. you're right. governors do it, mayors do it, but it so often doesn't happen on the federal level. governor stitt, how much harder is your job when there's dysfunctional partisan gridlock in washington? >> it makes it tough. we see it just like all of america does. there's not a lot of stuff getting done in washington, d.c. it seems like they're playing politics. we talk about an all of the above approach to energy. we have to let american companies innovate. we need to stop being so partisan and literally just try to meet the needs of americans, reduce inflation by unleashing american dominance in energy. that's oil and natural gas, that's wind development, nuclear, hydrogen. that's the way we approach it in oklahoma, so we can have honest

conversations about that. it's frustrating when you don't see much being done at the national level. it's an election year and we get that and people are driven to their corners. most americans are center right, center left. we can have honest conversations about what's the direction, but we want to make sure the american dream is alive and well for that next generation. that's what governors are focused on. >> governor polis? >> what brings matthew mcconaughey to join us is this conversation about how can governors be effective problem solvers in our state, which we are every day. there's no republican or democratic way to fill a pothole. we all care about schools and the economy. it's also about how can we model a better form of civil discourse and how can we do it in a way that leads to a better outcome in a constructive way rather than the politics of personal

destruction. we've been working with both sides of the aisle to collectively come together so governors can set a positive example for the country. >> governor polis, before i let you go, i know you're hearing what democrats across the country are talking about and hearing, and that is questions about president biden. do you support his staying in the presidential race? >> look, as a democrat, as republicans, we all have our candidates. we want to win this. we want to protect american democracy and freedom. what's clear is something needs to change to win that. whether that's the message, the strategy, the candidate, show us the path to victory. let's elevate the discussion over the differences of the candidates and get out of the basement politics of personal destruction and let the best person win. >> do you think president biden

gives democrats the best chance to win? >> well, again, i think clearly he's made some missteps over the last few weeks. the question is not so much what i think. it's what the american people think. they need to change something up. again, whether it's strategy, whether it's his message, i fundamentally think his policies are good for america. while of course i have my disagreements with both candidates, i have full confidence and i think it's an issue of making sure he can show to the american people that he's ready with a positive vision for america's future for the next four years to make life better for every american family. >> incoming chair of the national governor's association, democratic governor jared polis of colorado and incoming vice chair, republican governor kevin stitt of oklahoma welcoming president zelenskyy and, yes, matthew mcconaughey to salt lake city. we appreciate it. >> thank you. coming up on "morning joe," "new york times" chief white house correspondent peter baker

will join us with his take-aways from president biden's news conference and the way forward for this campaign. plus, we'll go through donald trump's ties to the far-right policy plan known as project 2025. our next guest says trump can try distancing himself, but his extremist agenda for america is written all over it. molly jong-fast explains her piece in "vanity fair." you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. atching "mo" we'll be right back.

it's hard to run a business on your own. make it easier on yourself. with shopify, you can have your inventory, payments, and customers in sync across all the places you sell. start your journey with a free trial today.

want to save on some of the biggest names in streaming on the network made for streaming? x marks the spot.

now you can add the new xfinity streamsaver™ that includes netflix, peacock, and apple tv+. that's xfinity streamsaver™ for just $15 a month. all your favorites. all in one place. only from xfinity. for more watching and less spending... x marks the spot. do it all on the network made for streaming, and bring on the good stuff. should the conversation about the president getting out of this race, should that conversation continue? >> no, it shouldn't. >> the conversation should be over? >> no. the conversation should focus on the record of this administration, on the alternative to his election, and let joe biden continue to make his own decisions about his future. he's earned that right. i am going to give him that much respect. if he decides to change his mind

later on, then we would respond to that. >> did you leave the door open just a little bit for these continued questions about president biden? because he said he made up his mind and you're saying -- >> i took him at his word. that's why i am all in. i'm riing with biden. >> that's congressman jim clyburn of south carolina speaking with the "today" show early this morning. joining us now, chief white house correspondent for the "new york times" peter baker and molly jong-fast. she is an msnbc political analyst. peter, we'll get to the congressman's reendorsement in just a moment. first, let's get your take-aways from last night. president biden, certainly a performance far stronger than at the debate two weeks ago.

in fact, many democrats said if he had been at the debate what he was last night, we would be spared this. do you think he did enough last night to reassure nervous democrats? >> i talked with a number of democrats who said, yeah, they were relieved. they thought he cleared the bar. the bar had been set pretty low by the debate obviously, but they believe he lived to fight another day. doesn't mean that the concern suddenly has gone away within the democratic party. within minutes of his debate, three more house democrats said he should get out of the debate. obviously there's still some churning. but as jeff said earlier, they got a little bit of a break after that. he made some mistakes, but they feel like he looked good on foreign policy. if not calming the waters, at least he didn't stir them any further. when he makes mistakes like

mistaking trump for vice president harris and mistaking putin for volodymyr zelenskyy. >> i think you're right. as unfair as that may be -- because people make mistakes -- earlier today i messed up trump and biden. it happens. but he's being held to a really hard standard, but one that's not going to go away. peter, you were part of the "new york times'" reporting yesterday before the news conference about how some biden officials, people with real stakes in this, people trying to get him reelected feel like he can't win and are having quiet conversations about trying to nudge president biden from the race. >> they were talking about how would you convince a very proud president that he might need to step aside.

you heard him yesterday at the press conference. he said nobody told him he can't win or that the polls are bad. obviously there are enough polls out there they can point to and say that's not too bad, so they don't need to panic here. there are some thinking about how would you convince a proud man to think about stepping aside? three thoughts about that. one, you have to convince him that he cannot win or it's very unlikely. secondly, somebody else can win. thirdly, you'd have to convince him that the transition would be clean, smooth and not chaotic. those are pretty high bars. you heard him last night say that he's not convinced that the polls show he can't win. >> you heard biden mention project 2025.

in the last couple weeks, the biden campaign is really trying to push that to the forefront of the conversation. you've been writing about it. tell us about it. >> so it's a plan by the heritage foundation meant to echo a plan that was put out during the reagan admin that was sort of what we do when we get our guy in there. the idea here is that trump's first term was disorganized and he didn't get the right people in there. these people have a plan for january 2025. it is to go in on day one. what's important about it is it radically remakes the federal government in ways we have never seen. it ends the department of education. if you get federal education stuff, like if you have a kid who has special needs and has an iep, that's over, at least at the federal level. you're not going to be able to get that, free breakfast.

all this sort of federal stuff that beefs up state level education, it basically is a blow to public schools. it has things in it like regulating ivf. it goes to every far set of american life that is seismic. it's sort of undoing all the fdr stuff. they even say this proudly. it's dismantling the administrative state. >> but empowering the president and giving him more control over things like the department of justice, which you can imagine what that would be like under trump. coming up, inflation has cooled for the third straight month. we'll break down the latest numbers from the labor department and what it could mean for interest rates. "morning joe" will be back with that. for interest rates. "morning joe" will be back with that

why do couples choose a sleep number smart bed? can it keep me warm when i'm cold? wait, no, i'm always hot. sleep number does that.

can i make my side softer? i like my side firmer. sleep number does that. can it help us sleep better and better? please? sleep number does that. 94 percent of smart sleepers report better sleep. and now, sleep number smart beds starting at $999. shop now at sleepnumber.com this summer. snacking. just. got. serious. introducing new $3 footlong dippers. the world might not be ready for them... ...but at $3 a pop? your wallet definitely is.

introducing togo's new barbecue beef sandwich. it's piled high with tender beef that's slow cooked and smothered in tangy memphis style barbecue sauce. it's no fuss, no muss. just tons of flavor. the best barbecue beef is only a togo's. introducing togo's new barbecue try one beef sandwich. it's piled high with tender beef that's slow cooked and smothered in tangy memphis style barbecue sauce. it's no fuss, no muss.

just tons of flavor. the best barbecue beef is only a togo's. try one today. welcome back. as we've been discussing all morning, president biden is

fighting for his political life, but it's a week that could have otherwise been focused on some pretty good economic data. inflation in the united states cooled for the third straight month in june, which could inspire the fed to cut interest rates. mortgage rates also falling, and we continue to see record market highs. joining us now christine romans. so this is good economic data. tell us more. >> it was a great week, a meaningful week in the american economy. it started a week ago today when you had a job report that was still sturdy but showing some signs of cooling. then you had cooling inflation. you have the stock market with 35 record highs for the s&p 500. any individual investor who's a buy and hold investor like we all should be has done very, very well over the past four or five years. and you have an economy at a turning point where you see the fed talk about cutting interest

rates for american families. i was talking to a senior administration official yesterday who was saying inflation has been rising faster than wages for a year now. maybe consumers will start to feel a little bit better about things. by and large, a great week for the economy for our pocketbooks after suffering inflation over the past years. >> if americans start feeling better, that's a formula for presidents running for reelection. they tend to win. this is what the biden team has wanted all along. how can they get that to break through? >> historically, of course, this kind of economy is exactly what an incumbent economy like this. ronald reagan would have killed for an economy like this. inflation was in the 7% range, something like that. politics is not working in the same way it used to. put aside the debate.

biden's approval rating was in the high 30s. that's far below what the president with this kind of economy would normally be at. there's a disconnect. people are seeing things through different lenses. they're not evaluating presidents the way they did in connection to the economy. people don't feel it in their own lives. they feel like the economy is not good for them and the people who don't like biden don't give him credit for it. make an argument that the economy, in fact, should be a factor in voters' consideration. >> christine, we know that donald trump likes to talk about how strong the economy was the first time around. we have fact checked him. not nearly as strong as it has been under president biden. but there's been some analysis done as to what trump 2.0 would look like. >> survey in the "wall street journal" this morning of economists shows that trump 2.0

would raise inflation and swell the debt and deficits of this country. remember, his big platform is mass deportation, which economists say would be inflationary and would cause labor shortages in the united states, and also these big new tariffs that would raise prices for the consumers. tariffs are a tax hike on what consumers and american companies pay for. trump has said he will do more tariffs. you have a strong economy now. you have a trump agenda that the majority of economists say could worsen things. he's actually going to go out in front of the rnc and talk about making america wealthy again by doing the very things economists say would worsen the economy. >> christine romans, thank you. peter baker, thank you as well.

you've done yeoman's work for us this week. coming up on "morning joe," we'll dive into the new novel called "long island compromise" which tells the story of a family burdened by its own wealth. the author will join us live here in studio. "morning joe" will be back with that. n studio "morning joe" will be back with that

introducing kardiamobile. with kardiamobile, the fda-cleared smart device, you can take a medical-grade ekg in just 30 seconds from anywhere. every morning i check, make sure i'm in good shape. and it makes me feel pretty good about my heart condition. kardiamobile is proven to detect atrial fibrillation. and it's fda-cleared to detect normal heart rhythm, bradycardia and tachycardia. i mean, you might as well be in a doctor's office. get kardiamobile today

for just $79 at kardia.com or amazon.

the moment i met him i knew he was my soulmate. for just $79 at "soulmates." soulmate! [giggles] why do you need me? [laughs sarcastically] but then we switched to t-mobile 5g home internet. and now his attention is spent elsewhere.

but i'm thinking of her the whole time. that's so much worse. why is that thing in bed with you? this is where it gets the best signal from the cell tower! i've tried everywhere else in the house! there's always a new excuse. well if we got xfinity you wouldn't have to mess around with the connection. therapy's tough, huh? -mmm. it's like a lot about me. [laughs] a home router should never be a home wrecker. oo this is a good book title. this is a story about everything. it's about life and marriage and how young love can become old resentments and money -- >> you can't get one of these for less than ten grand. >> and dissatisfaction. >> i feel like i'm not alive. >> you chose this. >> jealousy, ambition, career. >> i don't even have time to get a divorce. >> parenting, nostalgia and lifelong friendship. >> the world is your oyster. >> that was a look at the fx

series "fleischmann is in trouble." it was based on the best selling novel. her new novel "long island compromise" follows a dysfunctional wealthy family that must move past the kidnapping and release of their father. it's based in part on a real-life kidnapping on new york's long island in 1954. we're so glad you're here. congratulations on the book. >> thank you. >> tell us what drew you to the story. >> i wanted to write the story of the kind of big, messy family that i loved reading. i wanted to write a story about intergenerational wealth, people who are made completely insane by their money, which is everyone, people who have it, people who don't have it, people

who think about having it and ultimately these people who lose it. >> taffy, you and i are buddies. >> we are. >> so very excited to get to ask you some questions. talk to me about -- you write these books that people feel, you know, that we go through as middle-aged people, and so i'm curious, you know, you've been -- you were a straight journalist before that. how does that inform what you write? >> i think that the profiles i would write for "the new york times" magazine and for gq were all in training for this thing which is to get inside the head of people whose heads you are not inside, right? the people i would interview were not always forthcoming, they would not always tell me anything, and that helped me tell the story of, you know, an

addled screen writer, different cocktails of drugs and constantly reenacting his father's kidnapping, or a land use lawyer's son who is so afraid of his own shadow that all he does is accumulate insurances, including the insurance -- do you know that there's an insurance for when all your insurances fail? he has that. >> we do now. >> yeah. yeah. i'm very happy to talk about that. >> i come from neurotic stock so i actually know that. i'm curious, you know, we both have a relationship with my mother and -- >> you are amazing mother. >> so i'm wondering if you could talk about the sort of second generation -- the second wave feminists or the women that came before us, the norah efron's, the women who created this world that we occupy, can you talk about that and your relationship to them? >> yes. they were my heroes and the pioneers because i don't think i was up for inventing anything, so it was women like your

mother, the incredible erica jong, it was norah efron, all of those women who made it so that someone like me could write freely, someone like you could sit here and talk freely in a way that really hadn't been done prior to that. >> let's return to the book. what was this process like coming to this? the first one was such a hit as molly says, meant so much to so many people. was there additional pressure to put this together, and then, you know, and how -- is this -- as this is starting to enter the world and people are starting to receive it, what is it like for a reader that comes up to you and says, this meant so much to me? >> first of all, i can't believe how lucky i am that anybody read my book because we all know that it is a possible outcome that nobody reads your book, but then when somebody says what i'm finding -- what i find the most gratifying is when people come up to me and they tell me not that they read it or that they loved it, but they just start talking about themselves and

fleishman -- after fleishman people would talk about their relationships, their relationship with their spouse, their relationship with middle age and now people are starting to talk to me about their families and the complications and the co-dependence and the sort of -- this sort of craziness around money and around familial trauma and around different generations, around work, around relationships, around love and around breaking down. >> we are excited to read this. the new book "long island compromise" is on sale now. "new york times" best selling author taffy brodesser-akner, thank you so much. >> thank you for having me. >> we will be right back with more "morning joe." me. >> we will be right back with more "morning joe. but my time to enjoy it. but now, i can open up my world with vabysmo. (♪♪) vabysmo is the first fda-approved treatment for people with wet amd that improves vision and delivers a chance

for up to 4 months between treatments, so i can do more of what i love. (♪♪) (♪♪) vabysmo works differently, it's the only treatment designed to block 2 causes of wet amd. vabysmo is an eye injection. don't take it if you have an infection, active eye swelling, or are allergic to it. treatments like vabysmo can cause an eye infection or retinal detachment. vabysmo may cause a temporary increase in eye pressure after receiving the injection. there is an uncommon risk of heart attack or stroke associated with blood clots. severe swelling of blood vessels in the eye can occur. most common eye side effects were cataract and broken blood vessels. open up your world with vabysmo. a chance for up to 4 months between treatments with vabysmo. ask your doctor. switch to shopify and sell smarter at every stage of your business. take full control of your brand with

your own custom store. scale faster with tools that let you manage every sale from every channel. and sell more with the best converting checkout on the planet. a lot more. take your business to the next stage when you switch to shopify.

welcome back. the actress shelly duval best known for her roles in several beloved movies including "the shining" passed away yesterday. nbc news correspondent anne thompson has a look at her life and career. >> reporter: shelly duval was

unique, wide-eyed and wafe thin, she was a distinctive presence in 1970s films. >> the only word for this is transplendent. >> reporter: discovered by robert altman's crew in a houston art gallery, his direction cultivated her talents in "nashville" and "pop eye" as olive oil to robin williams' sailor man. ♪ he may not be the best but he's large ♪ ♪ and he's mine ♪♪ >> reporter: yet it is the role many can't forget. >> i just want to go back to my room. >> duvall as the terrified wife in stanley kubrick's "the shining" a grueling year-long shoot. >> he demanded realism so i had to really cry for nine months out of the year and one month that i was in london to do the film. >> reporter: she would add producer to her resumé in the

'80s. >> i don't think i'm ever going to really grow up. >> reporter: her fairytale theater starred some of hollywood's biggest names, garnering a peabody award. duval left hollywood for her native texas in the '90s telling "new york times" how would you feel if people were really nice then suddenly on a dime they turn on you. when the world saw her again it was in a 2016 interview with dr. phil. the apparent decline in her mental and physical health shocked fans. duval's final film would be another horror movie, 2023's "the forest hills" an accidental actress who learned her craft and shared her talents with the world. >> shelly duval was 75 years old. molly, in our remaining moments let's end the show where we began it, president biden last night delivered a news conference meant to sort of ease the anxiety of so many democrats, stem the bleeding of those calling for him to step aside. these next few days crucial, ahead of the republican national

convention. do you think he did enough? >> so we're going to see. what i think is very smart and what everybody has been asking for, everyone who is asking in good faith has been asking for him to get out there and so he has a number of interviews scheduled, a number of press -- you know, did he this press conference, he showed command of what he needed to show, i thought. you know, the gaffes have always been his issue and so -- but what he did was he was solid on the policy stuff. i mean, you could never imagine trump being able to answer those questions. >> certainly not. and president biden on the road to michigan today and then sits down with our colleague lester holt for an interview with nbc news on monday. that does it for us this morning. we will see you on monday as well. have a good weekend, everybody. katy tur picks up the coverage right now. right now on msnbc reports, return to the trail. president biden heading to michigan after last night's news conference, acknowledging he's still trying to defend his candidacy, while insisting he is