this is an nbc news special report. hello, on this sunday morning, it is 4:00 a.m. eastern, i am want to conquer a borough, we are back with coverage this morning, the

aftermath of what the fbi is calling an assassination attempt of former president, donald trump. i want to take you back to the moment shortly after 6:00 p.m. yesterday, when those shots rang out at a campaign rally in butler, pennsylvania. >> if you want to see really something take a look at what happened-- oh-- >> how are we doing, how are we doing? [ screaming ] speckled, hold, are you ready? who? move. move. hawkeye is here. >> are you ready?

are we good? >> sugar is down. shooter's down. we are clear, we are clear. >> oh my god. >> we are clear. >> i got you, circum-i got you muster. >> let me get my shoes. >> let me get my shoes. >> okay. >> watch out. >> usa, usa, usa! usa! usa! usa! usa! usa! usa! usa! usa! usa! usa!

here's what we know right now, donald trump is doing well, according to his campaign. on truth social he confirmed that he was shot with a bullet to the ear. you can see has bloody pace right there. his fist in the air, he was rushed off of that scene, the shooter, who is now deceased, has been identified by law enforcement as 20-year-old, thomas matthew crookes from bethel park, pennsylvania. he is a registered republican, one rally attend he was killed, during the shooting. two other spectators were critically injured. three senior u.s. law

enforcement officials tell nbc news the shooting happened outside the secret service perimeter for this event. president biden, condemning this act of political violence. >> the bottom line is that the trump rally, the rally he should have been able to conduct peacefully without any problem, but the idea, the idea that political violence or violence in america is just unheard of, it is not appropriate we-- everybody must condemn it. >> we are now seeing the first movements of the former president. here, you can see donald trump early this morning, trump eight, margo martin posting this video of the former president in new jersey, with the text, strong and resilient, he will never stop fighting for america. >> he waived, but didn't make any remarks as he returned to new jersey, and joining us now, we have a full team of reporters and analysts standing by.

nbc news investigative reporter, and dealing steen, nbc news correspondent aaron mcglocklin of bedminster new jersey. and nbc news correspondent, george solis of pennsylvania. nbc's senior national political reporter, jonathan allen is still with us, nbc news correspondent, gary is with us as well. as the former justice tops spokesperson specializing in espinoza. former fbi official and counterterrorism christopher o'leary is with us and former u.s. attorney who served in the region where the shooting happened harry littman, so thank you all for being with us this early hour. i know some of you have been going for hours and hours and hours now. i appreciate the dedication here, andy, you are one of them, what is the latest we are learning from the investigation? >> welcome to the 20-year-old suspected gunman is being-- they are doing a full background on trying to get to the immediate timeline, leading up to the shooting, but also, as well, kind of the larger

lead. some of this will unfold tonight, as shack brewster was out of the scene in bethel park, pennsylvania, where they were conducting searches, including with the atf. and obviously, there is the scene that is being processed in -- at the rally site in butler. there's not a lot we know at this point, but what is going to emerge in the coming hours, did this individual have a criminal record or a mental health history. what, in terms of the guns or ammunition that was either at the site or taken from the home? as far as open records and also, how did they physically get there? butler is about an hour north 43 miles from that residence, and so they are going to be looking at that in the immediate aftermath. obviously, the digital

footprint, in terms of everything, from email accounts to postings, comments, apps, message boards, anything that will give them-- starts to fill out a picture of a potential motive here, that, as law enforcement has kind of noted today and other big incidents like this, those have to be careful, because those pieces that may be missing or there may be contradictory things that do not tell us and we may not fully know exactly why somebody did this. >> christopher, the shooter has been identified as a 20-year- old from bethel park, pennsylvania, a registered republican, we don't know a lot more. we don't know the exact type of weapon he used. we don't have a motive, what will investigators be looking to find out about him next? >> welcome i think a couple of things, number one, motive is the most important right now, to understand that, you know-- does he have a-- you know-- is he more like john hinckley

junior when he tried to kill president reagan, or is it an individual acting, because of political belief, and he believes that you know, violence is the only method that can make a change? and is he acting alone? is it something that he came up with by himself? was he radicalized by somebody else online or is he doing this with other people? who helped him get to the event? did anybody help him prepare for it? those are all things that the team-- in the pittsburgh region are doing right now. >> are you surprised, christopher, that this shooter had a clean line of fire? >> very surprised 150 yards is not even it is frankly amazing if he was intended on shooting the president that he did not, especially with a rifle, that is a fairly simple shot for

anybody who has any training i would push back on critics though of the secret service though, because as mentioned many times and it bears repeating they are the finest in the world at protecting presidents and heads of state and, you know, their professionalism was very evident in their immediate actions afterwards from both the close protection personnel and the counter snipers, my assumption is that rooftop was part of their security plan and something broke down. that is not something that the secret service and has great attention to detail that is not something they would ignore. >> how to something like this happen then? >> i think the investigation will determine that. was there something that distracted the-- you know, the police that were securing that?

it is tough to say at this point in time, and that will be more on the secret service side. the fbi side, again, working on what this individual's motivation was, how he got to this location, was he acting alone? and, really, what the underlying ideology is. is he an acceleration us? does he want to, you know, really destroy american society? and if this goes back to-- we heard many people talk about political violence in the past against heads of state, you know, teddy roosevelt got into office because president mckinley was assassinated by a panel guest and subsequently, when, you know, teddy roosevelt was running for reelection as a third-party candidate was shot himself in the chest in a similar manner and then actually continued on with his speech for 90 minutes afterwards. >> yeah, harry, you worked in this area. what is your reaction to a presidential assassination

attempt happening there in butler, pennsylvania? >> look it a stunning and i don't disagree about the secret service's overall professionalism but when you go to stake out an advance, lines of fire are everything, so, you absolutely cover anyone and anyplace that would have a clean shot and crooks somehow managed to get through that. the other thing i would say is the fbi now, which has taken over the investigation is going to be conservative and not want to risk any chance of getting out front of the facts. but i think they have indicated that nothing they have so far said just crooks is anything other than a lone wolf. their number one first priority would be to figure out is there anyone else there who might be involved and i think they have no information to that effect.

that makes him, by the way, an unusual shooter and we don't have the, sort of normal social media that shows him becoming radicalized, western pennsylvania does actually have a hotbed of domestic terrorists. people don't necessarily appreciate that, but he seems to have been all a loan actor and if that is true, the most likely hypothesis is that mental illness issue that totally broke out in the last few weeks. but how he had that line of sight is going to be something that country, that congress and others are going to be really, really focused on. it is just a breakdown. >> and i want to be careful not to jump to conclusions about any motivations or what caused this action, and by this individual, but marsha, the secret service agents we do see created this human bunker around former president and they were so swift they were

decisive, and when we played that video in full it's hard to believe how much happened in such a short amount of time does it look like all of the proper protocol was followed? and what was your reaction to the security in that moment >> my reaction was just complete admiration for the secret service not literally jumped up from out of nowhere. you saw them come from every direction to put their lives literally in front of the former president, to protect him, and that is just a testament to their training and, you know, this group works together, it is called a detail. everyone that works together on president trump's detail. they are highly trained and they have a leader, who was, you could hear from the hot mike, giving clear direction and assessing the team in the next movement. and they just reacted so

quickly and you exactly where to go, they knew what they were doing and got him in the vehicle very quickly, as soon as it was safe. so, you know, those guys are-- they have got listening devices in their ears, they were listening to all of the sights and sounds that are happening and talking to each other and they just move together so quickly as a team and got things in place. now, from the other side of things, we don't have a good view of what happened yet that will come with the investigation, and what the sharpshooters were seen from the tops of the buildings and from what others were seeing from different vantage points, but what chris pointed out i think is important, the secret service needs the security for these events, but they also work with other law enforcement organizations, so it is a multifaceted effort with a lot of different organizations all helping out towards the same goal. >> george solis is on scene, where this rally took place, now, some 10 hours ago, when

the shots broke out the crowd dispersed, what is happening there right now, because we know this is still very much an active crime scene. >> that's right, anna, the same questions a lot of us have are the same questions the residents of butler are going to have as the sun comes up, as the morning progresses. people wondering how this all could have unfolded. as you mentioned, yes, the seniors, still very active. i have to preface by saying, pennsylvania police immediately moving us further away from where we could actually still see the rally stage, saying that we were not safe. they were not get into specifics about that, but saying, we needed to move right away, so naturally we complied. it just tells you the magnitude of what is happening here, the scope of it. moments ago, we saw what looked like a mobile command truck just moving through the area here. so, it is quiet here in the dead of night, but there is still a lot happening behind the scenes. we could see, when we were set up earlier, just that harrowing

image of that empty stage and the flag, the flag just sort of waiting there, very still, very silently, just sort of harrowing in a sense, when you think about what had transpired only hours earlier. so what are we learning about the people that were shot here at the rally? we know there was one fatality and two others critically injured. we know that they are men, 30 still not revealing much more about those individuals. we do know that the campaign, through president trump has also set up a gofundme for those victims. that is something that is happening here in this community, here, where we are, we are next to a church, and on it, you have to imagine that as those services begin here in this community, many will come and start to talk about what happens at the rallies, assassination, the loss of life, those that were critically injured, those that still maybe in the hospital at this very hour trying to recover from their injuries, trying to understand and wrap their heads around this, as so many people around the country and around the world, frankly, are.

we also are trying to learn more about this individual, who carried about this assassination attempt, how close they were in proximity, what their motivations were, obviously. we have a lot of questions. i do want to quickly mention that the governor of pennsylvania, josh shapiro did put an information on x earlier, acknowledging that he wanted to-- he basically expressed his best interest for the former president same, as we learn more from the investigations i am mindful of just how painful and shocking this event is to so many pennsylvanians. i respectfully ask that we treat our fellow americans with respect and join together to universally condemn the unacceptable violence we witnessed earlier today in butler, and i have to tell you, on out, that was a sentiment from a lot of people, some people attending their first trump rally for the first time and they witnessed these harrowing, horrific events, state police handling the investigation, as far as a person that lost their lives in those that are critically

injured, as the fbi investigates the assassination attempt again just so many things, 70 puzzle pieces left to unfold and, as we will see more in the coming hours, as the sun begins to rise, here in butler, anna? >> i know you will be asking those questions every moment you have, in order to have a face-to-face interaction with law enforcement, and people who may have been at that rally. so, keep working, thank you, george. john, two days before the republican national convention this happens. what does this assassination attempt mean for the convention? >> welcome i think you know, it in sort of pedestrian terms, the republican been convention is going to go forward as planned. the trump campaign of the republican national committee said that. already today. i think, you know, in political terms, you are going to look at a republican party that is more unified and energized behind trump, what we have seen in the hours, since this attempted assassination, since the former president was, himself shot

what we have seen is republicans running. i think the longer term, sort of affect of that is going to be energized turnout for him among his base of voters. and that could've been a problem this is the third time that he will be the republican nominee, and so you know, i think we will have to wait a little bit to see what the overall effects are in terms of the outcome of the election, it is a long way away, but i would just say you know, this is really an unparalleled time in modern political history, obviously we have had assassination attempts before and assassinations before, but just think of the last six weeks of american politics, you have donald trump become the first president, former president convicted of crimes, you have the supreme court, basically give broad immunity to presidents, you have had joe biden have a debate performance so bad that some of his fellow democrats were calling on him

to step aside, which, by the way i should note, you may hear some cooling off of that at least for a little while. and then this assassination attempt heading right into the republican convention. never seen anything like this last six weeks in politics. >> it is really shocking and surreal to be living through this right now. it has been decades, since we've had assassination attempts, assassinations, anything like this. aaron, we saw donald trump early this morning there in new jersey. what we know about his injuries and how he is doing? >> well, former president trump is quote, in great spirits, that, according to his son, donald trump jr., who tweeted out that he had the opportunity to speak to his father in the hours following this assassination attempt. we heard from former president trump himself on truth social describe how he had quote very much bleeding, how the bullet

pierced the upper portion of his right year. we have also hurt from his political director, james blair in a memo that went out to staff say that quote, everything is okay, but also calling for that communication lockdown, within his campaign, saying quote, anyone who speaks with the press, even on background or off the record will be found and terminated immediately. refrain from commenting, speculating, posting on social media, etc., complete and total lockdown. that was followed-- just after midnight, about 12:37 in the morning, an aide to former president trump tweeting out a video of him deplaning a new arc, new jersey, the clips that we saw a former president trump assassinating, whisked away by security. he was coming down the stairs, very slowly, very methodically, didn't say anything.

but he did waive. now, where he went from there is unclear. it is possible that he was brought here to bedminster. this is where the trump national golf course is located. it is a place that he likes to go, during the summer. we did see it around 1:20 in the morning. a large convoy of security personnel drive away from the club. it is possible he came through a back entrance. is also possible we saw that convoy followed up by more-- a different kind of detail. so we are still waiting to hear from the campaign, just when we are going to see the former president and hear from the former president next anna. >> i imagine he will have a lot of resting to be done after going through something like that, and obviously getting home extremely late early this morning, gary, what are hearing now from lawmakers on capitol hill? we did play some sound earlier, with representative, don user, who was at this rally. him calling for the temperature to come down for americans to

find common ground, to hopefully use this moment as the catalyst to develop some unity in this country, what other reactions are we hearing? >> that's pretty much what we are hearing, from everyone from senator, bernie sanders, to ted cruz and everyone in between, they are calling for speaking out for lyrical violence at the temperature to be brought down a little bit, all of the lawmaker reaction hits 49 page approval document right now, just to give you a sense of how much reaction there is out there and it is largely to the point you are making, but there are a few exceptions here, and some of them are blaming democrats, blending the rhetoric of president biden for what happened today, one of them is potential vice president nominee, jd vance, a senator from ohio, he says quote, today is not some isolated incident, the central premise of the biden campaign is that donald trump is an authoritarian fascist, the rhetoric led directly to the assassination attempt of donald trump. so, you are hearing that from

folks like jd vance, that is not at all what you are hearing from the trump family right now of course, what you are hearing from the trump family is purely support for their father, from the children and even from folks, like , the former president's former wife, books that are very supportive of the president right now, anna? >> and john, are you surprised to hear that kind of message? coming from a potential vice presidential pick of the former president in a moment as serious and as fragile as this?? >> i am not, and the reason i am not is it has become so much more course, so much more angry so much more bitter, so much more partisan and, you know, just in my lifetime. so, i am not surprised by it. i do think that, you know, that in order to make a charge like that, jd vance has to ignore a

whole lot of recent history, and probably, you know, will be asked about it, as the vice presidential candidate, why he was so supportive of the idea that donald trump had nothing to do with january 6th and storming of the capitol. why that seems to be okay with him as an incitement, but in this case, without any evidence of joe biden actually inciting anybody, he would go out there and say that this is somehow connected to biden, i mean, it just -- it requires some logical gymnastics, however, i think jd vance wants to be vice president of the united dates, he wants to be trump's pick and he is auditioning for it and i think he believes that makes him a stronger pic if he is willing to go be the attack dog against biden, regardless of whether the argument he is making makes any logical sense whatsoever. we heard president biden today denounce political violence, we have heard president biden denounce political violence over and over and over again

over the years. so, i mean, it is just -- it is not surprising, but it is-- it is hard to-- it is hard to put into some sort of reasonable context or reasonable construct how he gets to that position, given some of the other positions he's had. >> christopher, we did hear from law enforcement about four hours ago saying that they have no reason to believe that there is no existing threat out there. but i do wonder, at a moment like this, is there an increased risk of copycats? >> well, there certainly is. you know? historically speaking, copycats is a very common thing. and, you know, again, depending on the motivations and what his associations are, there may be individuals from his network that could act in a similar fashion, or they just want the attention.

it is tough to say, but i think that is what the fbi investigation is going to be focused on and, you know, the fbi headquarters and the response group are surging resource right now. that includes people from ba you, the behavioral analysis unit, trying to get into the mind of the shooter, that includes the laboratory division will be doing ballistics, evidence response teams, every resource that the fbi has is right there right now. it looks like it is more political violence resources will be surging in there as well to determine if there's any other associates, and what his real intent was, whether it was, again, the underlying fact is one thing, but if it was, you know, violence from political change that completely changes the trajectory of the investigation. >> terry, i want to play a

moment from the press conference a few hours go. let's listen. >> is this a lone wolf attack? >> again, i think it is too early to say that. we have one shooter tentatively identified, but we are not stopping there. we are following up on a lot of information. it will be sometime until we can conclusively say or answer that question. >> harry, how is the investigation different if it is a lone wolf or not? >> welcome to the media thing is what you do even before the investigation. so, an investigation, you are putting together all of the forensic details about the shooter. you are actually building the case, but if there are possible associates out there, you are in a prevention mode, you are really fanning out and doing everything you can to subdue and smother and right away.

they don't seem to be doing that of course. you are always looking into it, but you would have seen a different pattern of law enforcement activity if they had some basis for thinking the crux had possibly acted with others. so, it is almost not even part of the investigation, proper, if he is not a lone wolf, but an actual part of the immediate cessation of the risk, so, now they will put together the case and they will separately be an investigation into how it happened, and then, of course, all kinds of mess in congress, but, as i said before, their first look out is, is the rest basically quelled now, and while things could erupt, it is clear that they have concluded that there is no strong risk, that other people, confederates are out there, looking to

follow up. one more quick point is, copycats are always a risk they think about, but that is something different, it is the people who have seen them will somehow emulate the action. you will see a lot of security, extra security that subsequent to events from both trump and biden, but that is a different thing from asking, did crooks act alone? and right now they haven't told us any reason to think that he did not. >> andy, john ellen, gary, thank you all. christopher o'leary and harry litman, please do stay with me, we have much more head on this special report about the attempted assassination of former president, donald trump. we will hear from an eyewitness right after this. stay with us.

this is an nbc news special report. thank you for staying with us, i am anna cabrera in new york as we continue our breaking news coverage of the assassination attempt on former president, donald trump, during his rally in pennsylvania. saturday afternoon. here's what we know at this hour, the former president is doing well, after a bullet pierced the upper part of his right here. according to him and his son, we are getting that readout on how he is doing this morning, one rally attendee however, has

died, two others critically injured according to law enforcement the shooter is now deceased, and has been identified as 20-year-old, thomas matthew crooks. so far, we know he was outside that secret service perimeter, in this event, we know he is a registered republican, we don't know the motive, we don't know the specific weapon, but we will continue to get more details to you. just as soon as we learn any additional information. now, last night, president biden gave former president trump a phone call after this assassination attempt. it follow this response from the president earlier in the evening, to the presence to the american people, let's take a listen. >> it is sick. it is one of the reasons we have to unite this country. we cannot allow for this to be happening, we cannot be like this. we cannot condone this. and so, i want to thank the secret service and all of the agents including the state agencies in making sure that people who-- and more detail to come, relative to the other

people injured in the audience, we don't have all of that detail, we will make that available to you, maybe we will come back a little later tonight and we will put out a statement, if we don't-- if i am not able to-- of it is not in community for you all, but the bottom line is, the trump rally should have been able to be conducted peacefully without any problem, but the idea, the idea that there is political violence or violence in america like this is just unheard of, it is just not appropriate. everybody-- everybody must condemn it, everybody. i will keep you informed, and if i made a little speech to donald, i will let you know that as well. but so far, it appears he is doing well number one, number two, that there's thoroughly investigating in the audience, we have some reports, but not final reports every agency of the federal government, and i'm going back to my phone to speak with the federal agencies that

are being put together again to get you an update briefly if we learned anymore the last couple of hours. so, thank you very much, and i hope i get to speak to him tonight and i will get back to you if i do. >> mr. president, do you think it was an assassination attempt? >> i don't know enough to-- i have an opinion, but i don't have any facts, so i want to make sure we have all of the fact before i make some comment anymore comments. thank you. >> are you worried president-- >> for their security feelings? >> hours after that statement, law enforcement officials did call this an assassination attempt. nbc news correspondent, dasha burns was at this trump rally, covering it for 18. she spoke with a man who says he witnessed the moment one person was killed during the rally. >> as we just learned, joseph, you weren't listening to the

program here, but lester holt, nbc news, just reporting that one of the attendees has deceased-- has died, from injuries as a result of the shooting, joseph, you told me off-camera that you may have witnessed this, and i'm so sorry to be talking to you in this tragic moment, but can you describe what it is that you saw? >> i was attending the rally, i was in the set of features, the very far left of the podium, where donald trump was speaking- - president trump was speaking- - i was there with friends, i heard several gunshots, the man beside me suffered a gunshot wound to the head. was instantly killed. fell to the bottom of the bleachers, another woman looked like she got hit in the forearm or hand, and at that point in time it was rather chaotic at that point, because everyone-- half the people were looking, because they thought it was fireworks, i knew it was gunshots right away. my friend-- you know, hit the deck.

i was looking around trying to see where the shots were coming from. it looked like the shots were coming from behind the bleachers the man got hit in the head from behind, he was killed instantly as far as i could tell and state police of a s.w.a.t. team showed-- they started evacuating the bleachers and i helped carry them in and i was behind the bleachers. >> you helped carry the man yourself. what was his condition when you are carrying him? >> he is deceased. he died. >> how close were you to him? >> a couple yards, you know, it wasn't very far. >> did you know the man? >> no. they put a towel over his head and carried him off. >> and you said there was another woman nearby was also injured? where was he in relation to him? >> i believe she was in the bleachers, either above or behind me adjusted the side of him, but i think she was kind about my flank and she flinched and it looked like she did take a gunshot wound to the forearm and hand.

>> joseph, from where i was standing, weird multiple gunshots, 8-11 shots we have been hearing it replayed on the video here, you know-- can you remember-- i know it was a chaotic scene, but at what point was it immediately when you are the gunshots that he was shot? or was it later on into the fire? >> he was hit with -- he was hit and she was hit within the first seven shots-- counting seven shots. >> what was going through your mind? you are right there. i know it happened so quickly, but what can you tell us about those moments? >> first i was in shock, because i know what gunshots sound like, so i knew there were gunshots, i just couldn't tell where they were coming from, and when i noticed someone got hit then it was well, it seems like they were coming from behind me and it was just pandemonium, and i heard some more shots and i couldn't quite tell where they were coming from him a but i counted the first seven, they were very loud and very close, and it killed one man and wounded another woman.

>> and joseph, you told me that you are a doctor, an ob/gyn. how did that background play into how you were able to assess the situation and know what happened to these individuals and know what was going on? >> i told the police, when i tried to render assistance i told police, they had another position on the emt team, so they kind of took over, so i kind of helped carry them down initially out of the bleachers. i mean, there wasn't-- the man the gun hit-- there was no assistance, and unfortunately his family witnessed the whole thing. seemed like he had several family members in the bleacher with him and they were quite upset. they didn't know-- they were in shock, they didn't quite know what was going on, but the man was definitely killed instantaneously. >> could you tell how many family members or people who knew him or with them, and what was their reaction? >> i thought there was five people there. two of them were hysterical, but they were-- when you took the man out of the bleachers, he went to the tent, there was an 80 tent set up behind the

bleachers where they took the body and they immediately evacuated the family with him, and two out of the five were in shock, hysterical, still trying to process what was going on. >> joseph, from where i was standing, we heard the shots, we heard the president go down-- >> i saw the president get hit. >> can you tell us what details you remember? >> it seemed like his head was off to the side and it seems like he got mixed in that year. >> was that before the secret service took him to the ground? >> right before the secret service is hard to tell-- time dilates-- it seems like it was just a second or two. the first seven shots that went off-- the man got hit, he was killed and was instantly-- the woman in the bleachers, she got hit in the forearm and hand. and in those rounds that were fired again, i was videoing the event, so that is why i saw trump get hit, and it seems to me he was looking to the side and around raised his year, so-- >> could you tell the gentleman that was hit in the head what--

angle he was in relation to the former president, like -- which direction the bullets were coming from and to? >> so it looked like he was facing the president of the very far left portion of the bleachers, so he was directly facing it, can seemed like the shot was coming from the rear behind us, and for me it seemed like the man was away. i guess-- >> in the way of the former president? >> no, it seemed like the man was in the way of the shots where we were shooting the gun and the president, the man that was hit, it seemed like he was in the crossfire. >> and i know-- and i know you are in shock and still processing all of this, it is sort of hard to evaluate our own emotions in this moment, but you just experienced something horrific. what can you tell us about your state of mind right now? >> you know, i've had an opportunity to attend this rally before, this is the first

one i've ever been to, i had time off to go do it, i was excited to do it, but it's -- you know, everyone-- you know, it is something you don't affect the expect to come out of the blue, it is pulled out of the blue and it is just -- it is shocking. you know, the way politics goes in this country it just seems like everyone is really angry. i am honestly shocked fisted happen earlier. i was commenting to my friend, who went to the event with me, i was like you know, the back-- behind the bleachers it is really open, it seems like a really open venue and i got this tense, someone really wanted to do something that could-- i was openly talking to her, i was like -- you know, if something bad was to happen, this is the perfect venue, i just said this an hour before it happened, i was like the perfect place to do it. and surprisingly enough it happened. >> a devastatingly prescient observation from you. let me ask you one more question, because from where i was there was confusion, then trump stood up, and there was some cheers and then people sort of remained-- those that

weren't in sort of the immediate zone where you were-- people were still sort of cheering, talking contract figure out what was going on, how quickly did you know that-- whether or not there was still a dangerous situation, it seems like people sort of tried to move on very quickly, not sure what had happened right? so, how soon did you know whether or not it was even safe? did you want to get out of there? what did you witness in sort of immediate aftermath once the shops stopped? >> everybody thought it was a prank everyone, i think got a sense-- when i looked into the crowd everyone thought-- i think the initial reaction everyone thought it was a prank, i thought it was a gunshot because i just saw a guy get hit. >> for those of us who didn't see, some people were laughing, some people were confused. it wasn't immediately clear to the crowd that witnessed what you witnessed that this was, in fact, a dangerous and deadly situation? >> oh, it was a dangerous and deadly situation, the problem

is a large crowd and when the job gunshots went off, again, my sense was they were being shot from behind, so it sounded more like a firecracker, so i think the initial reaction from the people behind me were like, well, someone brought fireworks. i just knew better, what gunshots sound like. and, when i saw the guy got-- took a gunshot wound to the head and i saw the woman who got hit in the forearm and the hand, i just knew it wasn't fireworks, it wasn't fireworks initially, but i think the majority of the crowd didn't understand it was fireworks. and i think people took it really seriously when the s.w.a.t. team started jumping. so i don't know what to tell you outside of that. >> joseph, i know this-- i can't imagine what it takes to describe what you just witnessed, and these moments, right in the aftermath, so we thank you so, so much for sharing. >> thanks to dosha for that reporting in that interview with joseph.

let's bring our panel back now, marsha espinoza is with us, the former dhs top spokesperson specializing in secret service protection. christopher o'leary, the former fbi official and counterterrorism investigations and harry littman, former u.s. attorney served in the region where the shooting happened, the shooter was apparently outside that secret service perimeter. we have been talking about this but this is the top question on so many minds right now, how did they miss this? was this an oversight? >> absolutely, and a lot of the questions need to be answered and they need to be answered quickly, why is there a line of sight vulnerability, and do protocols need to be changed if there was a failure? and leave the production of these events, but they also work with a lot of local law enforcement and other law enforcement agencies that all come together to protect the site. so-- that's one thing i think

on people's minds is how that happens, it is important to understand that moving forward. >> and chris, we did see the very quick reaction by secret service and law enforcement to try to surround trump but you see him pumping his fist, and he is there in the video, he is mouthing fight, he stand there for several seconds at the very least. are you surprised secret service to try to get him off the stage quicker? >> well, yes, and i am sure they wanted to get him off, but, you know, there was a lot of commotion going on, a dramatic incident just happened it just happened instinctively, but they are also human beings and taking a little pregnant pause there for whatever reason they thought that was okay, and, you know, we are not hearing all of their communications, there is the likelihood that they were told that they were always clear,

they probably would have kept them down on the ground still and they would not have gotten them up and tried to starts to move them unless they thought the pathway was clear. they are not going to expose the president to any additional threat out there. >> terry, reuters reported earlier that the faa cleared the airspace over the hometown of the suspected gunman here in this trump rally shooting. what does that signal to you about where they are in this investigation? >> welcome i first want to mention about the hometown, so often these shooters turn out to be from rural areas, bethel park where he is from is, essentially a community in pittsburgh, it is pretty well to do, he is not a sort of rural loan white male, we have every agency now involved in things, and that is just what the faa does, and i just want

to quickly mention about this line of sight point, because i have been out with the secret service, when you are actually doing an assessment and that is everything. somebody stands where the speaker, where the president will be, and any other people come to the territory to see every possible line of sight. so, that is going to be the focus of the investigation. they acted with alacrity and professionalism, once the shots started, but how was it that someone had a free hundred 50 yard line of sight shot on the president, is going to be a really intense line of inquiry. involving congress, among others. >> we know the political climate has been so tense to say the least, marsha, and we have been reporting on the government agencies reporting the increase in threats against politicians and other public officials. and these threats have been on the rise now in the last couple of years at least. what you think is driving this

and you know, in keeping in touch with people who are still with the different federal agencies, how are they feeling? is it frustration? is it fear? as it gets worse? >> yeah. so, the threats are constant and evolving, and that is what is, you know, national security agencies do, they study these, they-- and they devolve with them and respond with them. but the fbi and dhs have issued intelligence bulletins previously where they notify a local law enforcement agencies to notify them of the threats in the things that they are seeing to be on the lookout for and one of them has definitely been people who have been motivated with extremist messaging and online calls for violence, including you know, their perceptions of the election, and including

infrastructure as well. so, that is something that they have issued bulletins to say, hey, be on awareness for these types of activities that we are seeing that could be a threat to principals or to the homeland. so, we may see that in the coming days as well, if they issue something additional to that. we knew that secretary alejandro mayorkas, and the secretary who proceeds the secret service and secret service director, ken cheadle briefed president biden yesterday, and i imagine that, you know, he's got a lot of questions for them too. so, they are all looking into these issues and trying to get down to the bottom of it as well as looking towards the future and what we need to do to secure events, and principles moving forward, as well as to try to tamp down tensions that can arise because of it. >> yeah, chris, this is obviously a huge wake-up call when those threats come to

actual fruition and become political violence and in this case an assassination attempt against a former president. the current presumptive nominee for the republican nomination. is it even a good idea at this point to host the republican national convention starting tomorrow? given what just happened? or does there need to be a pullback and a reset of some sort? >> i don't think so. we cannot let the threat of political violence change how we act. it should not-- we should not allow it to change our system whatsoever. but the threat landscape is very real for both on the international terrorism landscape, it is much worse than it was before september 11th. to give you some rough numbers, al qaeda was roughly 400 members, before september 11th between isis and al qaeda now, there are roughly 40,000 strong around the world, and when i left the fbi last year half of all fbi counterterrorism

investigations were domestic terrorism investigations. which when i came in two decades before, they were very few in the case of domestic terrorism all but dissipated after september 11th. so, domestic violence and extremism is on the rise there's a finite amount of resources in the fbi across the interagency, and it is a challenge and the last thing i will say is we have to stay focused and committed to the threat, because what has happened is a lot of people have become fatigued with the problem and we have pivoted resources to other priority threats as well. great power competition, china and russia, cybersecurity, there's other things we need to address, but we can't abandon those for terrorism and political violence either. >> is a must:00 eastern now, and rest of her, this investigation is going into 11 our sets. this assassination attempt as the

day unfolds, and the investigation continues. what will you be watching for, what are your top questions right now? >> fbi agents will be interviewing everybody that the shooter knows, i'm trying to build a picture of his life, find out, they are searching his revenues, find out what he was reading, they are certainly doing digital forensics, picking apart every site that he has visited, every chat he has on online chat rooms. we want to figure out what he went from a grievance, potentially to real political violence, that is the thing you want to understand and you want to understand if there is anybody who directed him, or that he potentially influenced, and did anybody tip him to get to the location and the last thing i will say and this is complete supposition, but you have to look into it, did he have access to that site before the event happened? and did he have access and

placement there that placed him in that location naturally, to allow him to easily affect that rooftop. >> and send question to you, marsha, what are you watching and what are your top questions? >> i think the same, how was there a line of sight vulnerability and how-- and what we do need to do moving forward? what are they seeing, what are they seeing after this, you know, there was mention of other people committing similar acts, what are they going to be doing to principals, and the conventions moving forward? >> terry, send question to you. >> three things. the social media, when they find him, what will they get from him? second, does he have any kind of mental illness history and what is that about an third, how did he get the gun, i know it

hasn't been confirmed but at least the "new york times" thinks it is an ar 15 if you has a mentally ill person, how does that happen? those are the three things. >> some questions, not enough answers. harry littman, christopher o'leary thank you all for joining us this hour. please do stay with us as we track the investigation into the attempted assassination of former president, donald trump. we are back after a quick break. hi, i'm jason. i've lost 228 pounds on golo. ♪ changing your habits is the only way that gets you to lose the weight. and golo is the plan that's going to help you do that. just take the first step, go to golo.com.