only person charged under count 16. guilty again. count 17, conspiracy to commit obstruction of justice. it only pertains to senator robert menendez. he has been found guilty. count 18, obstruction of justice, senator robert menendez found guilty again. according to our colleague adam reese in court all counts pertaining to the senator of new jersey senator robert menendez are guilty. guilty across the board for menendez. guilty across the board for all of the individuals that have been charged in this case. the judge now telling the jury foreperson to be seated. they're going to ask for the jury verdict sheet, which is what i've effectively been reading from here. we've been filling it in electronically and reading it to you. and then i'm sure they will poll the jury, which you'll remember from all of our recent trial coverage means the judge will ask each individual juror if in fact this is their verdict. but it is obviously unanimous according to adam reese who's viewing this -- these proceedings.

he says that senator robert menendez's attorney is patting him on the back. but again, for the senator who's been in public office since the late 1980s as our colleague steve kornacki has just been talking about, he's been a member of the united states congress since the early 1990s. the 70-year-old senior senator from new jersey, the former chair of the powerful senate relations committee charged with acting on behalf of a foreign government, not the government he's supposed to represent and he's been found guilty on that. just like every other count that he's faced. katy, andrea? >> just really quickly, tom winter, and this involved egypt and qatar, both of those countries. just very briefly, what are the potential penalties? we don't know what range he might be -- obviously he's going to appeal. but what is involved in 18 guilty convictions? on all of these. >> the potential for decades in prison. but of course those are the statutory maximums.

and as you well know, andrea, there's no violent crime alleged here. we'll have to see what federal prosecutors go for. the obstruction of justice hits are not particularly good for him. that can be something the judge can look at negatively. he is probably facing, though, at least several years in federal prison. >> thank you so much, tom winter. thanks to katy tur. chris jansing picks up right now. good day. i'm chris jansing live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. and we continue to follow that news that just broke minutes ago. senator robert menendez guilty on all counts. 16 of 16 counts at his federal corruption trial. a sprawling bribery case that now represents a huge fall for a man who held one of the most powerful positions in the u.s. senate. menendez and his two trial co-defendants, snj new jersey nj

businessmen, could face decades in prison if prosecutors proved to the satisfaction of the six men and six women on this jury that the senator accepted cash, gold bars and a mercedes-benz convertible in exchange for official favors. joining us now former sdny deputy chief and msnbc legal analyst kristy greenberg. former federal prosecutor glenn kirschner. former prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst charles coleman. charles, guilty, guilty, guilty 16 times. >> indeed. >> guilty as well, the prosecutors proved their case across the board for the other co-defendants. what do you make of this verdict? >> well, chris, there's a reason that the federal government has such an immaculate record when it comes to prosecuting cases. they usually do not take shots that they cannot make. and in this case you saw they went for everything that they had and they got the convictions that they expected to get. federal prosecutions have an enormously high conviction rate because very few of them go to

trial simply because most defendants know and understand that they do not have a good chance of winning at trial. senator menendez took the trial in this case and he went up against the evidence that the doj had and he lost. and that's just as simple as it was. the prosecution had a very strong case with the amount of physical evidence that they were able to put forth. they put forth a very solid case. and it's not a surprise to me that they ended up getting the verdict that they did. the fact that the jury deliberated as long as they did is a curious matter to me but i think that could be a number of different things including the different defendants, the different charges and whether they were going to find each defendant guilty of all of the charges on the indictment. but ultimately, this shapes out the way that i would expect. when the federal government decides to bring a case, when they decide to go to trial, it's because they believe very strongly that they can win, and they often do, and we see that that's what happened here. >> let me go back to tom winter. tom, you have followed this case as closely as anyone. there is the legal aspect of it, but also there are two other parts of this that drew a lot of

attention. obviously the fact we mentioned he was an incredibly powerful new jersey senator who had once before gone on trial and it was a hung jury. but also just the details of this case, that they executed a search warrant and they find money and they find gold bars and they find them stuffed in clothing and boxes and a safe. talk about this case, the strength of this case and the challenges that faced the defense. >> i'll get to that in just a second if i can, chris. we are getting some color and some new information from our colleague adam reese who's viewing the proceed gds. the clerk is currently reading the verdict form back. but apparently menendez has his chin resting on his clasped hands. attorneys are upset. and apparently his family, the senator's family is wiping tears from their eyes. again, there is all according to our colleague adam reese. the jury has been polled and they have confirmed their verdict. that's when the judge turns to each individual juror and says is this in fact the verdict that

you came to. the judge is now reading from the bench saying your duty is now complete and is thanking the jury for their time. obviously a two-month-plus trial here. 12 1/2 hours of deliberations. speaking to the evidence that the jury witnessed, chris, as we've been talking over the past several weeks, in this case the new york field office of the fbi, the largest field office of the fbi in this country had to call in additional agents because of the amount of cash and the amount of things that they were finding at the menendez home. they needed to call in one of those cash counters, the types of things that we see in movies, in bank robbery movies and all sorts of other fimtz where they put the stacks of cash in and count them up. nearly half a million dollars in cash. you're looking at some of the individual bills found in the

course of the search. obviously the gold bars we're looking at now. the evidence against the senator particularly damning when he looked up the price of gold bars within days of allegedly receiving them. now no longer allegedly. and on top of that the evidence of the conduct here. a united states senator, the senior senator from new jersey, the powerful chair of the senate foreign relations committee. this is the committee that determines the type of support that our allies or maybe not so much allies receive from the united states. billions of dollars to help advance our interests and their interests when they are aligned. that he was apparently working on behalf of egypt. and i'm using old language, not apparently. in fact, the jury says he was working on behalf of them when he fed information about the amount of diplomats at the u.s. embassy in cairo. and you might be sitting there saying who cares how many diplomats are at the u.s. embassy in cairo. but if you were a foreign

government, and i'm going to remove cairo from the example and egypt from the example for a second. if you were a foreign government and you knew just for sake of conversation the u.s. assigned 100 diplomats to a particular embassy and they put them in five apartment buildings and you conducted surveillance, and you can bet these foreign governments do, who's coming in and out, who's associated with those diplomats, and you counted, say, only 90 in that building, in those five buildings, you would p want to know where the other ten diplomats are because are they working for the u.s. intelligence services? why are they not staying where all the rest of the diplomats are? what is the u.s. up to? are they taking secret meetings with people in our country? it is potentially very damning information, or very i would say challenging information for the u.s. in keeping our people abroad. so that's one of the things that stuck out to prosecutors. that's something they really hammered home in their closings and their rebuttal as we've been

listening to those proceedings over the past week or so. and this jury came to the conclusion that in fact it was the senator that did those things. we're getting more information from the court and then i'll send it back to you. the judge has asked for all parties to be seated. he's set a sentencing date for october 29th at 2:00 p.m. for one of the new jersey businessmen who's been charged here, wael hana. 2:45 for fred daibes. he's the developer. and then the sentencing date for senator robert menendez will be october 29th at 3:30 p.m. right now they're going through what the various bond and detention orders are. we're not getting anything new as it pertains to the senator. and some of this is some material pertaining to the other defendants. i'm going to send it back to you, chris, until we get more information about that. but again, the news that's coming out of the proceeding now is that the sentencing date for senator robert menendez will be

october 29th at 3:30 p.m. and obviously that's before the election. chris? >> thanks so much for that. just raise your hand to our control room when you get more information from inside that courtroom. but let me go to you, glenn, because we now have the sentencing date, october 29th, 3:30. for right now, though, would you expect the prosecution team to oppose bond in the meantime? >> you know, ordinarily when charges this significant -- and it includes convictions for not only criminal conduct but for obstructing justice, trying to cover up, trying to misdirect, trying to get away with your crimes and committing more crimes in the process. i mean, that poses a potential risk if somebody is put on release pending sentencing. but what i will say, chris, is ordinarily i've seen what i would refer to as a disparity in

largely white-collar cases where defendants are allowed to remain on release pending sentencing whereas, you know, if they're not sort of privileged, connected, influential and wealthy they are often remanded to custody after a really dramatic series of guilty verdicts like that. so it's an open question as to whether the prosecutors will ask that he be remanded or step back pending sentencing. but i was furiously writing down the numbers, the exposure that he has as tom winters was reading off the verdict. and i think by the time we hit the 11th or 12th guilty verdict he was already facing in excess of 100 years in prison. now, as tom mentioned, that's the statutory max. obviously the federal voluntarily sentencing guidance will come in significantly lower. however, based on this clean sweep of guilty verdicts i would expect the prosecutors to ask for a fairly lengthy jail term

for senator menendez. >> so cresty greenberg, what happens between now and that sentencing date? what are both sides working on and the judge? >> well, so the next step in this process is there will be an interview from the probation office of senator menendez and the probation officer will then prepare a report. that report will include a summary of the offense conduct as well as information personally supplied by senator menendez to provide a more complete picture of who he is, his background, his family connections, his health. just anything he thinks could potentially be helpful because ultimately that probation officer will make a recommendation about sentencing. both the prosecutors and the defense will look at that recommendation and have the benefit of that report, which is confidential to the public. but both parties will get it. they will look at it and

determine what sentence they seek to recommend. obviously, you're expecting senator menendez's team to ask for no jail time. i will say that i've worked with these prosecutors. these are among the best public corruption prosecutors in the country, and they are aggressive. so i would expect based on their participation in past public corruption cases at sdny that they will be seeking jail time for senator menendez. >> and i would expect also as well, charles, an appeal. do you see strong grounds for an appeal? >> you know, at this point i don't know. i think that there are a lot of different things that can occur at a trial, chris, that will be grounds for an appeal. but to answer your question, whether it's strong or not i do anticipate that we will see an appeal from senator menendez's team if only for the purposes of trying to buy time. and i think that's something that people need to understand, that they may be able to file an appeal and ask that the ultimate sentencing be stayed until the appeal is decided or at least

until some point in the future. and that may be a tactic that they employ. it may not necessarily work. but in any event, you lose very little by filing an appeal in a case like this, particularly because senator menendez is up there in age. this is something i do expect we will see from his defense team. >> yeah, i think he's 70 years old now. tom winter, you have some new information for us? >> yeah, just a quick heads-up. we've been told we are going to get a statement, a press statement. unclear if he'll take my questions from u.s. attorney damian williams and his team. he's the u.s. attorney here in manhattan. his office racking up several significant legal victories of late. sam bankman fried, guilty plea there. guilty verdict i should say. obviously a number of crypto cases that have gone there that have been successfully prosecuted. and then of course now the senator from new jersey who's been prosecuted here with the previous case ending in a hung jury and a mistrial. and then because of some of the way that the case was put

together and some supreme court rulings ultimately those charges were not refiled. that was in new jersey. so interesting here that a manhattan new jersey, not a hometown jersey for the senator found him guilty. but we do anticipate a statement from him. the timing on that is a little bit tbd. they are now dealing with this court -- and all this is coming from our great colleague adam reese. the menendez defense team is talking to the judge and i think it sounds like the senator will be free to go. that's at least the way it reads to me. and it looks like at this point the judge is about to wrap it up. so i would expect -- typically we've seen the senator leave through those doors, those revolving doors, 10 to 15 minutes after proceedings. but of course today with the jury coming in with the verdict, 16-0 guilty against him, he may take a little longer in court. court has now been officially

adjourned. and so we are now concluded with the proceedings and we'll see what happens from here. but i would expect some sort of a press statement within the hour if not half hour from the u.s. attorney's office. and then we'll see what happens when the senator leaves. he is free to go. >> charles, what do you make of that? >> chris, there's been a lot of conversation about the two-tiered system of justice in america and about political prosecutions. i think one of the things that needs to be taken away from this is that you have a democratically appointed usa attorney who made the decision to prosecute this case in brooklyn -- in the southern district. you have a democratic department of justice, if you will, appointed by a democratic president. this is something that cannot be labeled a political prosecution. and that's important to understand. but with respect to the two-tiered system of justice, as a former prosecutor typically if you have charges of a serious nature like this you are typically going to ask that the defendant be remanded. you're going to ask that at least there be some level of bond. so to have senator menendez walk out publicly, at least for right

now, as a free man who's been convicted of a felony does in some respects fly in the face of what it is to have a system where everyone is treated the same way because typically a defendant of this nature would not be able to just walk out of the courtroom. so i think that's important for viewers to understand. as we continue to have this conversation about how justice functions with democracy and political prosecutions for everything that we've been having this conversation about on both sides. >> let me bring in steve kornacki, who for many, many years covered new jersey politics and the rise really of senator menendez. we started this hour by talking about what a huge fall from grace this was, how powerful he had become as the head of one of the most powerful committees in the u.s. senate. was it six years ago that he was tried before. it was a hung jury. he was defiant. he always said he did not do what he was accused of then. he has always said he did not do what he is accused of now. but talk about this. the trajectory of robert

menendez to one of the most powerful positions, political positions in the country to now. >> it really is an extraordinary arc. and there really are in some ways politically two bob menendezes. you're talking about the bob menendez on the national stage. the chair of the senate foreign relations committee. as you say. you go back to the year 2000, bob menendez was a member of congress from new jersey. sort of a rising star politically. al gore was the democratic presidential nominee in 2000. a member of house democratic leadership back in 2000. actually suggested menendez as gore's running mate that year. the idea being cuban american, florida, votes down there. you look at history that might have been significant. didn't happen. wasn't under serious consideration. but that's the kind of reputation he sort of began with nationally. but bob menendez has also been throughout his political career a practitioner of very hard-nosed sort of new jersey, old school new jersey style politics. new jersey known for political machines. political machines that still

exist. bob menendez is the product of a political machine in new jersey. one of the most powerful democratic machines in the country. that's the hudson county democratic organization. he's from union city. hoboken, jersey city. we're talking about that part of new jersey right across the river from manhattan. and bob menendez ran the hudson county democratic organization essentially for years. even as a member of congress. my first memories as a reporter, we're going back more than 120 years ago, with bob menendez a member of congress dealing with weighty issues then like the war in iraq as i said, the 2000 election floated as a vice presidential nominee. dealing with a political war with the mayor of jersey city. and it had to do with who the county executive in hudson county was. and this was an outright political war. the first call as a reporter that i ever -- i remember this, that i ever received on my cell phone from a member of congress. i'm 22 years old at the time. was from bob menendez. and bob menendez was irate because he did not like the story i wrote about the mayor of

jersey city and the hudson county executive. so this was a man very much with sort of his feet in two very different worlds. and i think one thing -- >> but not shying away from a political fight. >> that's the thing. if you remember, when he got that hung jury in 2018, he came out of that courthouse and the statement he gave was i am going to remember who was with me and i'm going to remember who was against me. and that is bob menendez. that's the new jersey bob menendez in a nutshell. and one of the things i think people have found so hard to believe in new jersey is that he caught the break of a lifetime in 2018. he got indicted by the feds. he got tried. he got a hung jury. and then he got re-elected to the united states senate that same year. and it didn't stop. and here he goes. indicted a second time. and this time convicted. a lot of people think, you know, look, menendez, there's a lot of theories about how he ended up in this position. sort of organizing his

activities this way. but you would have thought a lot of people after that close call in 2018, that would have been it for him. and it wasn't. >> so we are learning now, this is breaking news, that chuck schumer, the leader of the senate, is now calling for bob menendez to step down, to resign from his seat. it may surprise a lot of people to know that a convicted felon is allowed to serve. it does not mean he has to stop being a sitting senator. i want to bring in nbc news ali vitali on the hill. tell us more about that. and the pressure that will be brought to bear on bob menendez to step down. >> it's going to be significant, chris, especially because it was already significant even before this verdict came down today. more than 30 democratic senators called for menendez to resign. you'll remember that in the aftermath of these allegations he resigned his seat atop the senate foreign relations committee but that didn't stop many of his colleagues from saying that he had lost the public trust and that he should

resign his seat. among those who did not take that position and who were staying quiet until the end of the trial was senate majority leader chuck schumer, though in the last few seconds as you point out, chris, schumer has since come forward and said he believes menendez should do what's right and resign his senate seat. that is significant. and it's something that we've been waiting for as we track the reaction here in congress. we already knew what senators were saying before. of course we'll wait to see whose positions have changed after. but i think it's important too to highlight the process here. you point out what i think might be surprising to many of our viewers, which is that just because you're convicted of a federal crime does not mean you can no longer serve in the senate. there is, however, a process to remove lawmakers. it requires a 2/3 majority vote of the senate. and they would also have to go through an ethics inquiry in order to have something to vote on. the ethics committee of course at this point will likely begin that process. they are typically, both on the house and senate side, a very muted and sort of shrouded in

secrecy group of lawmakers who don't like to tip their hand until they're ready to make a recommendation one way or the other. of course, we are out to the senate ethics committee to see what their next moves will be. but i also think it's important for us to note the defiant posture that menendez has take en. i'm so glad steve points out the 2018 reaction that menendez has because i remember covering that re-elect after the mistrial and even talking to voters who remained skeptical of menendez's innocence even after he came out in such defiant fashion and continued to be the senior member of the new jersey delegation here in the u.s. senate. now of course we're looking at menendez already facing a challenger in the form of democratic congressman andy kim. kim for his part has already come out calling this a sad and somber day and reiterating his call for menendez to step down. i imagine, chris, we are going to be hearing a lot more about that. the pressure will continue to mount on the new jersey senior senator. >> thank you, ali, for that. we are watching, as you can see

on the left side of your screen, the doors in new york city of the courthouse. we are waiting for the u.s. attorney who was the lead on this case, damian williams, to come out. we now know that sometime in the coming minutes he will come out and have something to say. kristy greenberg, what would you expect to hear? >> well, these kind of statements are very typical for a u.s. attorney to make after a significant conviction of a high-profile case. so i expect him to talk briefly about the evidence and about the import of such a conviction. again, just taking a step back, this was quite an extraordinary case for one of the most powerful members of the senate to essentially claim that he had been duped by his wife and that he really had -- she cooked up this scheme to collect money completely behind his back. it was -- the guilty verdict here is not surprising just given how extraordinary that is. and when you look at the fact of

what the charges are, the bribery, the conspiracy, the obstruction, and you know, working as a foreign agent, as a sitting member of congress, a charge that has never been leveled before. these are incredibly serious charges. and i expect damian williams to speak to just how serious they are. how strong the case was. and you know, really to make the case to the american people why this was prosecuted in the first place. it's important, i know there's a lot of narratives talking about the weaponization of doj. this is a prime example of where that has not happened. this was about following the facts and applying the law to those facts. and that's what he did. and i expect he will stick to that and really explain that to the american people. >> let me go back to what's going to happen between now and sentencing if i can, glenn kirschner. and what are the conversations like within the prosecution team about what their recommendation will be?

>> so they will survey -- we ordinarily did this as federal prosecutors. sort of survey all loosely analogous cases. now, i would say that senator menendez in many respects is in a league of his own committing all of these felonies, committing obstruction of justice to cover them up, and then acting as an agent of a foreign government as a sitting senator. so there may not be many analogous cases. but ordinarily we'll do a pretty broad survey to try to come up with something that we believe is appropriate, that you know, we want the sentence to fit the crimes but we also want the sentence to fit the criminal, the person who is being prosecuted, who's being sentenced, and as other panelists have discussed this is not senator menendez's first criminal rodeo. he was prosecuted previously. he managed to win a hung jury. for whatever reason the

prosecution opted not to retry him. i would say in my experience ordinarily we would retry a case if we still believed the evidence could sort of reasonably result in a guilty verdict. but so now you're going to have the prosecutors putting together a memorandum in aid of sentencing that lays out everything they believe is an aggravating factor that milita militates in favor pf prison p the defense will be asking for the lowest possible sentence. i don't believe there's any statutorily mandatory sentence attached to any conviction. all of that will be presented to the judge together with what will be a pretty complete presentence report. ordinarily, chris, judges don't know much about a defendant when they preside over the defendant's case. now, when the defendant is a public servant with a long career, particularly in elected

politics, the judge may already know more about that defendant before going to sentencing than a judge ordinarily would. the presentence report will do a full deep dive into senator menendez's background. there will be collateral interviews conducted. it will all be packaged up and presented to the judge. i want to give charles for a moment the hallelujah chorus where it really feels like a bit of a letdown that somebody who was a sitting united states senator convicted of bribery and extortion and wire fraud and obstruction and acting as an agent of a foreign government gets to walk out the front doors and enjoy the comfort of his own home and his own bed tonight when i think other defendants might not be so lucky. >> listening to the two of you, charles, i also want to ask you about what the defense will be able to present as what they consider to be mitigating factors against a long prison term. age, 70, is that a factor? i'm sure there will be many

people given his long career of public service who will attest to the good that they believe he has done. >> correct. i think those are going to be two of the things they harp on most when they talk about trying to present to the judge factors that would either lend for probation or lower jail sentence. i don't necessarily know they will be effective. and part of the reason why is when you are someone who's in the position of the public trust and you commit crimes like these and you're convicted of crimes like these that violate the core, the very core of what you're entrusted to do. this wasn't something that was a private matter. this was connected to the actual responsibilities of your job as a united states senator. and so when you have a conviction on crimes like these, the judge is going to be less likely to be lenient because it sends a message as to the severity of what it is to violate the public trust in such a brazen fashion. this is such a big issue when you're talking about the particular charges on this indictment. and i think that that is going

to be reflected in what we hear from the judge. despite what i do anticipate as you've already mentioned, that the defense attorneys are going to talk about his very long career in electoral politics. they're going to seize upon many of the things he has done for the state of new jersey as well as for the united states. but that is very much so countered by the convictions here and the nature of the charges. that's going to be the biggest problem that his defense team's going to have to overcome in pleading for a lower sentence. >> so we are already seeing members of the prosecution team, of the u.s. attorney's team who are lining up. there are seven of them in total led as i said by damian williams who is the u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york who we expect to speak. we see they're making their way over to the microphones. as we wait for them to come, steve, until they do let me just follow up on what charles was just saying as someone who covered new jersey politics for so long. here's what he's done for bob

menendez, for the country, for the state of new jersey. every single office in senate and the house has constituent services. there would be people who would line up to say good things about bob menendez. >> certainly. the interesting backdrop to this too, i think you've talked about it, is look, this is an election year in new jersey. and the senate race in new jersey for menendez's seat, which is up this year, is not expected to be competitive. but we've got some indications from polling at new jersey and we see this in a few other blue states. closer at the presidential level perhaps than people were expecting. that's not to say a battleground state. but menendez has so far filed to run as an independent. the democratic primary's over. andy kim is the democratic nominee. menendez, even though he's convicted, can continue running as an independent candidate -- now i see -- yeah. >> let's listen to damian williams. >> my name is damian williams and i'm the u.s. attorney here in the southern district of new york. moments ago a jury in this

courthouse convicted senator robert menendez of corruption and national security offenses p. case has always been about shocking levels of corruption. hundreds of thousands of dollars in bribes in the form of cash, gold bars, a mercedes-benz. this wasn't politics as usual. this was politics for profit. and now that a jury has convicted bob menendez, his years of selling his office to the highest bidder have finally come to an end. i want to thank the career prosecutors and law enforcement agents and analysts who meticulously investigated and prosecuted this case. their work is the reason why this shocking corruption has finally been unearthed and brought to an end. they are the best of the best. i'm enormously proud of them and proud to serve with them. thank you. >> will you seek the maximum sentence, sir? >> good afternoon. i'm christie curtis. i'm the acting assistant director of the fbi's new york field office. today is a day of victory and a

victory for justice. public corruption investigations like this hold our leaders accountable and ensure they serve the public's interest and not their -- they ensure they serve the public's interest and not their own. this conviction comes after careful investigation and hard work by the fbi, irs and the u.s. attorney's office. the fbi's pursuit of truth and integrity was instrumental in securing this conviction. when an elected official betrays the trust placed in them, it undermines the foundation of our democracy. thank you. >> my name is manuel -- i'm with fbi criminal investigations. assistant in charge in the field office. thank you to u.s. attorney damian williams for hosting us today. it is a great commitment and collaboration between irs criminal investigations, the fbi and sdny that today's verdict

was possible. i would like to recognize the work of the fbi public corruption c squad, the sdny public corruption unit, trial attorneys and paralegals for the tremendous effort in presenting this case and the sdny tax attorneys. i want to specifically recognize the irs c.i. special agents who worked this case in tandem with fbi special agents. today's verdict is a reflection of all their hard work. job well done. >> thank you, everyone. >> mr. williams, will you seek the maximum -- >> you're getting just a taste there of the breadth of this case that was out there. not only all the lawyers that you see but everything from fbi special agents who did the investigation to tax attorneys. and kristy greenberg, i'm guessing given your background you might even recognize some of the people who were involved in prosecuting this case. >> i do.

so i prosecuted cases with dan richenthal, who's the most senior prosecutor on that team. i've prosecuted numerous cases with him. i tried cases with him. also worked with paul monteleone who gave the closing argument in this case. and from my experience working with both of them it's exactly as u.s. attorney damian williams said. they are meticulous. they're among the most meticulous prosecutors that i have ever worked with. and so i think the reason that the u.s. attorney highlighted that is again to say this is not about politics, this case was brought because the evidence was there and because these prosecutors along with federal agents worked their tails off to really build this case and to follow the evidence wherever it may lead and to again bring a case that was clearly, based on as you can see the guilty verdict across the board, a very strong case. so these are excellent career

prosecutors from the department of justice who are not motivated by politics. here they're motivated by doing their jobs. >> if i can go to you, glenn kirschner, that statement by damian williams was short but it was powerful and it was scathing. he said this is corruption at a shocking level, that he sold his office to the highest bidder. i wonder what you make of that string of comments you heard from people who were involved in this prosecution. >> you know, chris, i think that's exactly right. when we elect people, whether it's to go to you are o'local city council, to be our mayor, our governor, to go to washington to be a representative or senator right up to the president, it's such an obscenity. right? it does such violence, figuratively speaking, to what our elected officials should be doing. they should be doing the work of the american people, the work of the people who voted them into office because the people trusted them.

and they looked to them to implement policies and laws that made our lives better, that made our country stronger. and instead you have bob menendez, you know, who was obviously in it for himself taking bribes, gold bars. and you know, when i was watching the trial unfold and the reporting, some of the evidence was so sharply incriminating and frankly viscerally appealing, when you find hundreds of thousands of dollars in a senator's home hidden away in various locations, you have gold bars throughout his home and he might try to blame it on his wife but there was evidence introduced that he, bob menendez, was googling things like the value of gold bars. and i think it's an added obscenity that he tried to blame his wife, push it off on her, and his wife, nadine menendez, will be facing a trial in the future on similar charges. you know, i think u.s. attorney williams was exactly right to

highlight just how damaging this is to the public trust and to our government. and i hope he gets the sentence that he so richly deserves because that's the only way to deter others from going down the same self-enriching criminal path that somebody like bob menendez chose to go down. >> and i want to talk in a little bit about nadine menendez, but we did just get a statement from governor phil murphy. he is the governor of new jersey, the state that bob menendez represents. and he wrote, "today's verdict finding senator bob menendez guilty on 16 counts demonstrates the senator broke the law, violated the trust of constituents and betrayed his oath of office. it also shows that in america everyone, no matter how powerful, is accountable to our laws." the statement goes on for multiple paragraphs, but he says, "i reiterate my call for senator menendez to resign immediately." steve kornacki, we were talking earlier about the defiance that

bob menendez showed the last time there was a hung jury. i know that we are keeping a camera up outside the courthouse. what do you think the chances are that the senator might come out and decide to make some comments? >> remember what he said as we were talking about when he had that hung jury in 2018 and he came right out and he said he would remember who his enemies were. and i think that's worth keeping in mind right now again because of the backdrop against which all of this is happening. an election year. a presidential election year. menendez's senate seat on the ballot in new jersey. and the other thing in new jersey too, there's lots of county offices, there's lots of local offices on the ballot this year that somebody like governor murphy is deeply iested in and deeply concerned about the outcome of. and you look at menendez and you look at as i describe the political nature, this is a bare-knuckle politician whose style has been you claim your turf, you fight anybody who has any threat on your turf, you fight them off and you make sure they never have a chance to come at you again.

he's in the position now where he was startled, he was surprised, i would say he was shocked when these charges came out originally and he was indicted for a second time, that new jersey's democratic leaders turned on him and turned on him publicly. they did not do that back in 2018. they did that this time around. now facing a situation where they would like him out of the way, they would like him to ez arine his seattle, they would like him to make himself a past tense political figure. i suspect menendez is not in the mood to do anything right now that would be helpful to the new jersey democratic party or to its leaders. so one of the questions becomes with schumer making that statement would there be a move in the united states senate potentially to expel him. because the last time a senator from new jersey was convicted of federal corruption charges it was harrison williams, it was 1981. it was the abscam investigation. williams was convicted. he pursued an appeal, vowed to keep his seat and eventually, it did take about a year for this process to play out, but the senate moved to expel him. it was only facing expulsion

that williams resigned his seat. menendez's seat right now only has a few months left on it. i don't know if the senate would move that quickly. i don't know if there would be a consensus in the senate that it's worth doing it that quickly. you'd suspect a lot of democrats would like that. again, menendez has been making this -- it's more than i athreat. he has filed to put his name on the ballot in new jersey in the general election as an independent senate candidate. that does not mean he has much of a chance or really any chance of winning. but could menendez siphon 5% of the vote, 10% of the vote as an independent candidate in the senate election? could his presence draw people away from the democratic party just because of his long-term association with the democratic party? these are things that have democrats worried in new jersey. they're not quite worried about the actual senate seat yet. it's been 52 years since a republican won a senate election in new jersey. but things are volatile right now. they'd like bob menened ez to go and to go quietly. and everything about bob menendez that we know from 45 years in politics is that's not in his nature. >> ali vitali, let me go to you

because we are in a fight. a fight for who's going to control the senate obviously in addition to the fight for the presidency and the battle over the house. and everyone is looking for messaging ammunition. this is without a doubt ammunition for republicans. new jersey seems to be a solid seat. solidly democratic seat. really senator menendez running as an independent was not considered a real factor in this race. but in terms of the messaging, the ammunition, part of the reason that surely many members of the u.s. senate and democrats in general would like this to go away. >> and part of why we saw already, chris, more than 30 of them well before the trial began when these allegations first came out, more than 30 of these senate democrats came out and said this man should resign from the senate, including -- and our senate producer frank thorpe and i were just talking about this. senator cory booker, who i remember in 2018 was steadfast behind menendez but now of

course was part of the people that you see on your screen who initially called for him to resign. so all of that is important as we then turn to the political side of this equation where the person who was already running against menendez whether he was in this race as a democrat or an independent or if he zblsh i'm going to interrupt you, ali, because senator menendez is coming to the microphone. let's listen to what he has to say after his conviction. >> i have every faith in the law -- [ inaudible ]

[ inaudible ] >> -- we disagree with it and we believe today as we have since day one in bob's innocence. there are grave appellate problems with this case and with this verdict, and we're going to pursue all appellate avenues aggressively. and we do expect he will be vindicated. thank you. >> so we obviously had audio problems there. not sure what happened. but you heard at the end adam feen making the statement that really supports what we've been talking about and the expectation that there will be appeal. he sees grave appellate problems in this case. we couldn't -- none of us reads lips. don't know what senator menendez said. i thought he seemed to say that he had every faith the law and the facts would not sustain this

verdict at the beginning. but don't hold me to that. we'll try to see if we can somehow get a clean copy. but it seems like there was a bad feed there. but the whole idea, charles, of grave appellate problems is a pretty strong statement. >> it is. and i think that on the heels of a trial and a jury verdict that does not go along with what you may have wanted that's the type of rhetoric you would expect to hear. you don't want to appear to the public downtrodden, particularly because you're talking about someone who has such a strong publicly facing outward image. but i want to underscore the importance of this verdict, chris. if we zoom back for a minute. our system of justice in america has been under attack and under such scrutiny. if you think about earlier this week judge aileen cannon, for example, dismissing the case against donald trump. people have had serious questions about the credibility of our justice system. if you think about the decisions that have come down from the supreme court, a lot of people

have not had the same amount of faith that we have normally had in one of the bedrock institutions of our democracy, and that is our justice system. a verdict like what we saw today helps to restore that credibility just enough, just a smidgen, for people who thought it may have been on the ropes. so in the broader context it's important to understand how critical a decision like this is in terms of at this juncture the importance of restoring our confidence in one of our core institutions of american democracy. >> we now have the audio of senator menendez. so let's listen and hear what he had to say immediately after being found guilty. >> good afternoon. obviously, i'm deeply, deeply disappointed by the jury's decision. i have every faith that the law and the facts did not sustain that decision and that we will be successful upon appeal. i have never violated my public oath. i have never been anything but a

patriot of my country and for my country. i have never, ever been a foreign agent. and the decision rendered by the jury today would put at risk every member of the united states senate in terms of what they think a foreign agent would be. i know my attorney wanted to say something, and then we'll get going. >> so senator bob menendez describing himself as a patriot of the country and denying that anything happened that was illegal. let me go back to you, tom winter, because again you've been following this case every single day, every night i get in my inbox the transcript of the day's events. and i thank you for that. but we now have an appeal -- we have a sentencing. we have clearly what his lawyer thinks are grave appellate problems in appeal. and what we have not talked about at all, and that is still an undetermined trial date for

his wife, nadine menendez, who when prosecutors put out this case they put them together as people who took money, who took gold bars, who took a car. talk about that part of what happens next and where we are. >> of course, chris. and we haven't heard from a jury yet, but perhaps it's the communications between the two. the text messages and the messages back and forth that were put into evidence that was so helpful for the jury to get to the verdict that they were able to get here today. this trial was originally severed. so the two -- nadine menendez and robert menendez the two of them their trials were severed not because of the ultimate diagnosis that we heard about nadine menendezes health, that she has cancer and she's getting treatment for it, severed because the two effectively wanted to offer defenses and elicit testimony which would have been prejudicial to the other, meaning they would have gotten testimony that would have

sunk the other one's legal chances before the same jury. so the judge agreed with their defense attorneys because the defense attorneys for menendez and for nadine menendez telegraphed the fact that they were going to take this tactic. so the judge agreed, you know what? it would be wrong because you've got senator menendez effectively testifying or eliciting testimony and evidence against his wife and vice versa. it would be difficult for them. so their trials were severed. and then later on we heard her trial would be postponed because of the diagnosis of cancer, for which we're now being told that she's been receiving treatment and she's been receiving treatment for the past several months. just this morning we got a decision or an order on the docket saying that her trial has been postponed indefinitely. i pulled up the filing while you were speaking. and while steve kornacki was emptying the encyclopedia in his head of new jersey politics which i always enjoy, but the judge effectively saying yes,

this matter is adjourned indefinitely, there's a couple of dates put on the docket for when her defense attorneys have to reply, but that's it. so we don't know the specific reason for that. and of course we hope just from a health perspective she's doing okay. >> we do indeed. and so a guilty verdict on all 16 counts against senator bob menendez after a jury of his peers, six men, six women, deliberated for 12 1/2 hours over three days. we do expect an appeal. i want to thank all of our guests. steve with your encyclopedic knowledge. i second that. charles, obviously tom winter and kristy and glenn, we thank you all. we're going to continue to stay on top of this story. but up next, a christie, thank . we're going to continue to stay on top of this story, but up next, a stunning new interview. i can't emphasize this enough. a stunning interview from nbc about the police officers who confronted donald trump's would

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some shocking new details today about the minutes leading up to the attempted assassination of donald trump. local police responding to reports of a man on the roof of a building couldn't see on to the top of the roof. so one officer boosted another to try to get a look. what was going on up there. this is what the township manager says happened next. >> when he was able to pull his head up over the roof, he did in fact see an individual on the roof with a weapon. >> he saw a shooter. >> he did. >> and what did the shooter do? >> turned towards him.

had the barrel of his weapon pointed at the officer. >> he pointed his rifle at the officer? >> yes. >> at that point, the officer's hanging on to the side of the roof? >> yes. yes. >> unable to pull a gun out. >> unable to -- >> to defend himself, reach his radio. >> any of that. yeah. yeah. strictly defensive movement for him to lower his head, duck. lost his own grip, right, fell approximately eight feet to the ground. >> so why wasn't the secret service involved at that building where there was a direct line of sight to the podium? that's a question a lot of people have been asking including members of congress. in a new interview, secret service director admitted before trump took the stage that the building where the shooter took aim was a potential vulnerability. >> said that roof has been secured. period. >> that building in particular has a sloped roof at its highest

point and so you know, there's a safety factor that would be considered there that we would want to put somebody up on a sloped roof and so you know, the decision was made to secure the building from inside. >> so she confirm what had a local official told nbc on sunday. that local police were in that building and local police were responsible for the outer perimeter of the building. stephanie gosk is reporting from butler. also here with us, retired atf special agent in charge and msnbc contributor, jim cavanaugh. stephanie, this is an extraordinary interview that you did. it answers a lot of questions we've been hearing from experts, members of congress, from people who were there on that day who felt like they were lucky to have gotten away without being shot themselves. tell us more about what you heard that the officer got hurt

after dropping eight feet? what else? >> reporter: it's important to say the secret service has said it's primarily the responsibility of local law enforcement to protect that building. we don't know which agency. there were s.w.a.t. teams. state police forces. we still don't know who was supposed to secure that building. the township said to me, it was not the responsibility of the butler township police department, which is a very small police department, to secure that building but these officers, four of them, who earlier was responsible for escorting to motorcade to the rally, they heard there was someone suspicious on the roof. so they went to the building. couldn't find a way to get on top of the roof so they boosted one of their officers up to take a look and that officer saw the shooter, was holding on to the

side, the shooter turned around and aimed his rifle at him. he was not in a position to defend himself and he fell to the ground. what the manager told me is they then immediately radioed the information that it was not just a suspicious person on the rooftop, but that it was in fact a gunman and here's a critical piece at this point and the question that remains unanswered. how much time between when that team radioed to a what we are told was a channel that even secret service would have been across, that there was a gunman on that roof. how much time had lapsed between that radio transmission and when the shots were fired from that gunman. we just don't know. obviously, the investigation is going to be asking some of those questions, chris. >> let me ask you just to be clear. so, they radio to say there's a gunman on the roof. did the officer go up before or after that radio transmission went out? do we know?

>> reporter: before, chris. what happened exactly was they heard there was a suspicious person. they weren't sure. they couldn't see the roof so they boosted one of their officers up to the rooftop. that's when he had the rifle turn on him. they dropped to the ground. we are told that officers, those officers then radioed over a transmission that the secret service would have been across. that there was a gunman on top of that building and what we don't know is how much time elapsed between that radio transmission and when the shooter opened fire on the former president. >> i know you have to go and you've been very generous with your time because you've been waiting to talk to us as we were reporting the bob menendez guilty verdict. but has the manager who you spoke with, did he tell you if he's spoken to any investigators to tell you how this happened? >> reporter: the fbi is on the ground today and they are interviewing the police

department and police department officials. this local butler township police department. it's worth reemphasizing. there were a number of agencies on the ground here. the secret service said it was primarily local law enforcement responsible for securing that building. what we still don't know right now is which agency was responsible for that building. why was it that a small team from the butler township police department was the team that actually responded to that original call that there was someone suspicious on the rooftop. >> stephanie gosk, thank you for that. jim, let me bring you in to respond to this, how this might have happened. it's a known place. you know you have a line of sight from that roof and yet you don't have anybody, apparently, with eyes on that roof. and i guess beyond that, the idea from tim, the hd of the secret service that well it was sloped. so there was that issue. >> well, it's not going to play