that's a great example. teddy roosevelt. it doesn't sway the way, but necessarily nothing does. we don't have the data, the polls are back and forth so we really don't know. and a lot of this is on vibes as much as i love vibes i don't think they're predictive. >> we should take this moment, the polling has stayed very static. even after the debate. yes, president biden took a small hit in the small states but only a small hit. it shows a very wide margin of error. there's a long time. molly jong-fast, thank you. thanks to all of you for getting up way too early on this wednesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. trump changed his schedule to show up earlier to hear both nikki haley and ron desantis. yes. the former president changed his whole schedule so he could watch his defeated rivals forced to

sing his praise. [ laughter ] >> while he drank a diet coke made out of a goblet of chris christie's skull. then we heard from one of those crushed souls nikki haley who said this -- >> i'll start by making one thing perfectly clear -- >> -- i hate myself. [ laughter ] there's no other explanation. thank you. thank you. thank you. [ applause ] >> i know that a lot of you want to meet my little buddy. so, if baby doll could come on out here. [ applause ] >> you fools! you can't have a dog in a same convention as kristi noem, run. run. [ applause ] >> stay away. >> night two of the republican national convention was about party unity. we'll show you the remarks from

donald trump's former rivals. plus, we'll have the latest on the investigation into saturday's assassination attempt with new reporting on where police snipers were. while the shooter was on the roof. also ahead, the fallout from democratic senator bob menendez's corruption conviction, as top members of the party call on him to resign. good morning. and welcome to "morning joe." it is wednesday, july 17th. good to have you all with us. along with joe, willie and me. we have the hosts of "way too early," white house bureau chief of politico jonathan lemire msnbc contributor mike barnicle. u.s. special correspondent for bbc news kat ty kay. and nbc news national affairs partner and chief political columnist at puck john heilemann. >> this lineup is not stacking up to where you wanted to stack up. we are not going to talk with katy about the heartbreak again

of england's national team. >> oh. >> it was a heartbreaker. but, you know, it's only been since 1966. england may do it again, soon. >> i mean -- i mean, do you really need to go back that far, joe? it's hard. it's 6:00 in the morning. i need time to grieve. i need a few more days. i need a few more days. >> that was heartbreaking. >> close. >> very close. very close. but if i see not one -- i see a few boston red sox fans. let's see, what do we start with today -- mike barnicle! all-star game last night and the mvp was -- ladies and gentlemen, boom! jarren durran. >> here we go. here we go. >> there. crushed it. >> oh. >> crushed it. >> boston red sox, thank you, ladies and gentlemen. american league wins the all-star game again. >> ten of the last 11 years, the

a.l. has dominated the midsummer classic. a guy who we discussed on the show a couple years ago was a prospect. looked like he was going to fly out, had tough moments on the field where he would lose track of fly balls on the lights and the grand slam -- inside the park grand slam but he's a legit all-star. doubles, triples, homers this year. last night, thanks to this swing, the mvp. >> the only guy can get base on balls and steal second in the same situation -- boom, boom. >> yeah, i mean, seriously, he's the guy if you walk, it's like giving up a double. you know, willie, you know, the boys and i have been talking abdur ran all year. it's a shame he wouldn't be on the all-star team because he should be on the all-star team.

fans didn't know who he was, but the players did and got in and showed everybody how great he was. >> it was an exciting game. mlb all-star game is fun. ohtani going deep. biggest star in the game going home run. paul skenes, incredible story for the pirates just two months after being called up is starting the all-star game, the rookie, by the way, dating olivia dunn. >> instagram. >> yeah, instagram superstar. >> and the 1, 2, 3 -- >> a 1, 2, 3 -- he did face juan soto. and and a lot of great story lines and soto with the two-run double in front of yankee fans. a really fun game last night. >> really was. and last night, also some interesting events going on at the rnc. >> yes.

>> some people saying that donald trump was a threat to america -- and what else -- nikki haley kept talking about he needs to take a test -- >> well, that's what she did say. but she changed her tune at the very last minute. >> but ron desantis was tougher on him, right? >> well, he used to be. but everyone, all of a sudden, changed. >> really? >> last night at the republican national convention, donald trump's final two challengers for the nomination took the stage giving full endorsements to the former president, calling for unity within the party. and to focus on president biden. >> we should acknowledge that there are some americans who don't agree with donald trump 100% of the time. i happen to know some of them. and i want to speak to them tonight.

my message to them is simple. you don't have to agree with trump 100% of the time to vote for him. take it from me, i haven't always agreed with president trump. but we agree more often than we disagree. >> we need a commander in chief who can lead 24 hours a day, and seven days a week. america cannot afford four more years of a weekend at bernie's presidency. >> wait, didn't we have that with all of that executive time and golfing? was that what he was talking about? >> well, it's hard to say. i'm so confused by what they said in the primary and what they said last night. jd vance, of course, we were

talking, john heilemann said that christians shouldn't vote for donald trump. but tonight that will change. he also said extraordinary and tempered things about him that actually jd vance are now complaining about. so it's fascinating. nikki haley saying basically donald trump was too low and addled to be president of the united states now offering a strong endorsement. >> yeah, jon, look, people in the former party, going back, we saw ted cruz and little marco last night, little marco rubio who said incredibly harsh things about donald trump last time there was a real republican national convention back in 2016. there was a forefight where ted cruz said harsh things as you can imagine about donald trump. this is the story of donald trump, right, where people who have been critical of donald

trump said he was disqualified from being president for one reason or the other then turned around and capitulated to him. so we've seen that turnaround. i would say in the case of nikki haley it's really more egregious than almost anybody. even compared to ron desantis, ron desantis said things about trump in the primary, well beyond what we heard in the parties. kamala harris criticized joe biden back in 2020. but nikki haley was different. you guys remember, i was out there with her in iowa and new hampshire and south carolina where her criticism of trump got harsher and harsher and harsher. we talked a lot about it on the show. nikki haley had found her voice. she was taking a stand. she was going as farce as until respects people in the democratic party said donald trump the way he behaved in a room with vladimir putin. she said things that were not

merely critical but the kinds of things that democrats say about donald trump. but the question of what she was, at heart, was on the table. and i think there was always a school of thought which was, hopefully, nikki haley is all about nikki haley. she wants a future in this party. eventually, she will endorse minimum. people would say. and others would say, no, i think she's really changed. she found her voice. we found out last night, who nikki haley really is. >> so, let's just go through some of these, looking at old articles here, katy. nikki haley told "the wall street journal" that elected donald trump would be, quote, suicide for our country. she call donald trump unhinged. she questioned donald trump's mental fitness and demanded that he take a cognitive test. and here a couple of other highlights, or lowlights of her

campaign against donald trump. >> of course, many of the same politicians who now publicly embrace trump privately dread him. they know what a disaster he's been. and will continue to be for our party. donald trump can't win a general election. >> wow. katty, it's almost like she's carnac the magician and can predict the future. because she predicted her own future right there. after saying donald trump would be suicide for america, after saying he was unhinged. after saying he wasn't all there, he needed to take a cognitive test, that he was too old to be president of the united states. some republicans will say this that work for him quietly then they'll go on to support them. nikki haley meet nikki haley. >> yeah, that february comment is the particularly telling one.

it does represent, you know, everything we've heard over the, what, however many years, eight years of donald trump. all of these republicans who seem to be afraid of him and have grown increasingly afraid of him they think if they don't get his endorsement they won't get elected or re-elected. nikki haley we seem to have a much more agile political athlete. much more confident of her own voice. we saw her last night vaguely trying to thread the needle of saying, well, i don't actually agree with him. i'm not one of those people who i criticized so roundly who says one thing about donald trump and feels another one. because here i am saying i don't always agree with him. but the way, the astonishing thing about the milwaukee convention is the way donald trump has managed to align the party under his vision and auspicious. i don't know what percentage of people there in milwaukee who don't love donald trump but i'm

not sure nikki haley really does represent the majority of the republican party anymore. they've fallen in lockstep with him. of course, this is the crowd that endorsed him. but the people who are speaking one after another, maybe they don't like him in private but you get no sense of that. this is a party that's fallen under donald trump's step. >> mike, you and i stood there in the ball room listening to nikki haley. as john said it's not judicial for candidates to fall in line and support the nominee but the criticism is not on policy. it's that donald trump is diminished. she compared him to joe biden saying he is not the same guy he was when i worked in the administration. he became more unhinged. the line she kept using over and over again don't blame me come november if you nominate donald trump. he's going to lose to joe biden. don't come crying to me. now here she is giving a

full-throated endorsement at the convention. >> you know, when she spoke that night in new hampshire i don't think she realized then and probably doesn't still realize now what an outlier she is in what used to be the republican party. the republican party's brand now is donald trump and has been for quite some time. and, jonathan, you talk to people in washington all the time, there has to be an awareness that this is not only unique in this century, it's unique, maybe, in american political history that one individual, donald j. trump, has so managed to come in from the outside, from the business world, and complete co-op, take over, one of the two major political parties in the country. >> he's taken over the party and he's completely reshaped it. evidence of that, his running mate jd vance, who has become the heir-apparent to the clock.

there's no effort to repeal to a different part of the party. this is pure trumpism. we saw it on display. he is, of course, beloved there in milwaukee. where some were seen with bandages on their ears with support of trump. you heard nikki haley saying i disagree with him, she tried to create this permission structure, you can disagree with him and still vote for him. well after trump was the nominee, there were still republican primaries, willie, where sizes of republican voters were still not voting for donald trump. >> right. >> they were voting for nikki haley or make something sort of protest vote. it's not clear those voters will come to trump. some of those voters during the primary process seemed very open to president biden. even if haley is saying we should get behind him, not clear they will.

particularly since trump has made no effort, zero effort, to try to win them over. >> you're right, nikki haley was getting votes long after she had dropped out of the race. but there was -- it's quite an image, quite a tableau that we're seeing in milwaukee, walking in this parade of candidates who criticized him in very personal ways calling him perhaps a suicide mission as she put it for "the wall street journal" for the country if he's re-elected. saying he's unhinged, misdirected all of these things watching him item to heel. in the case of nikki haley, the hope, the trump campaign is that she can bring with her those people skeptical of donald trump, perhaps some suburban women who will decide the election. >> right. well, we'll see what happens there. three sources tell nbc news president biden is getting ready to endorse significant reforms to the supreme court. the president is weighing

legislation that would establish term limits and an 81 dated code of ethics for justices. any reforms for the high court would require congressional approval. and the democrats' inability to break a 60-vote phil buster in the senate. joining us from "the washington post," tyler pager part of the team for "the post." first to report this story. what more can you tell us? >> good morning, mika, thanks so much for having me. and that's exactly right. this is a significant shift for the president, long and institutional chair, chairman of the judiciary committee has resisted calls from members of his own party to endorse reforms to the supreme court. we're expecting him to formally back some of these changes in the coming weeks. and i think, you know, it's obviously facing long odds of being enacted with new congressional approval.

but it still shows the way in which the supreme court has transformed its public identity over the last few years. biden resisted these calls in 2020 when running for president. he told democrats if he was elected he would institute, or bring together, a supreme court commission to study some of these proposed reforms. they wrote a nearly 300-page report and that was it. he didn't really act on it at all. but as we've seen the supreme court move farther to the right overruling roe v. wade, this decision on trump's immunity. we've seen the public reputation and america's approval of it decline. and we've also seen the president become more critical of it and that has led to us this point where we're expecting him to finally -- democrats have long awaited for him to do this, throw his support behind some of these reforms. >> and tyler, because they haven't gotten the decisions they wanted, over the years, many progressives called for combangs on the supreme court. the president stopped short

here. in what extent is this symbol ig, given the tlekhold that you laid out, 60 votes to do any of this, two thirds to actually get constitutional amendments on some of these things. so that's unlikely, given the way our congress is divided right now. so, is this sort of a symbolic symbol to the progressive base in an election year? >> yeah, absolutely. we're not going to see the president come out in support of court extension. that's one idea he's been long opposed to and remains so. i'm worried about what that would mean going ahead. but this is absolutely a symbolic measure. something where he wants to signal his views on the court. we are, obviously, you know, just a few months away from an election. and this is often a time when we see presidents or major party political candidates roll out new policies or signal their support but i do think it's still significant that the sitting president of the united states is poised to call for these reforms, particularly term limits would be a monumental

change to the workings of the supreme court. and obviously still has long odds of passing congress. but still, a huge shift for biden and for the country as they change their opinions of the high court. >> you know -- and the united states may be, i believe, it's one of the only western democracies, if not the only western democracy, that does not have term limits. >> right. >> for their supreme court justices. there just usually is. and as far as reforms go, mika. right now, i have great reverence for the court, i have great reverence for the judiciary, even though we may not be in agreement with everything that comes down the pike. but that said, the supreme court standing with the american people have fall ton a record

low. the credibility is shot. they're seen as a political institution. a lot of this comes because of the dobbs ruling, a 49-year-old precedent that 75% of americans did not want overturned. you take on top of that clarence thomas and all of the other issues that have been happening as far as people finding out that the supreme court justices just sort of live by their own ethics rules. there are no guidelines whatsoever. and so, the numbers are really getting knocked down. so, an idea like this which may have been very unpopular ten years ago, probably, because of the lack of discipline by some of the justices on the court and how politicized they and their families have become, unfortunately, it cast a bad shadow for the roberts court. so something like this may actually connect. >> yeah. >> not just with progressives but with a lot of americans. >> a lot of ugliness politically

and the dobbs ruling having an immediate and searing impact on the lives of women across america. >> yeah. >> for everyone to see. >> and an immediate sort of jolt to american politics. >> yeah. >> in a way that has damaged those who pushed for restrictions on women's access -- >> taking away 50 years of freedoms. all right. still ahead on "morning joe," democratic senator bob menendez of new jersey has been found guilty in his corruption trial. we'll go over what happened in court yesterday and what fellow democrats are saying. we're also going to be talking about the continued infighting with democrats and going to be asking how long it will last, and to what end, especially when we show you a couple of polls that have been released since this weekend. >> you're watching "morning joe." we'll be back in 90 seconds. (intercom) t minus 10... (janet) so much space! that open kitchen! (tanya) ...definitely the one! (ethan) but how can you sell your house when we're

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i just assumed it was normal. then we learned about bulkamid - an fda-approved, non-drug solution for our condition. it really works, and it lasts for years. it's been the best thing we've done for our families. visit findrealrelief.com to find an expert physician near you. ask if bulkamid is right for you and discuss potential risks. results and experiences may vary. move beyond the leaks. i don't think they can live with joe biden. i think the only way is to find a way for him to say i'm not running and replace him at the democratic convention in august and hope to god that gives him a shot. i frankly can't see how he can recover from the kind of sentiment out there. it's not new and it's only been made worse by the last couple of weeks. president trump has been seen as the stronger of the two men for over a year. and then on saturday night in

that iconic moment when he struggles to his feet, pushes his way through a scrum of secret service agents, in order to -- with blood flowing down his face, raise a fist as an act of defiance and reassurance to the crowd. you saw how the crowd reacted that evening. >> longtime republican strategist karl rove with that analysis yesterday on fox business. democrats remain infrastructured. a group of house democrats want the dnc to delay it's virtual roll call to select the matter's nominee. the dnc plans to hold the vote as early as july 21st, initially moving it up to make sure the party meets ohio's deadline to certify the ticket. but ohio lawmakers changed that deadline pushing it past next month's democratic national

convention. now 20 democrats have signed a letter saying the early virtual roll call is not necessary, citing concerns over the president's concern. >> yeah. now, this is what's so interesting. mike barnicle, i'm going to show you some polls here. because, you know, my feeling, mike, is if they just want to say that joe biden is too diminished and he needs to step aside, then just say that. but instead, they're going, oh, the polls -- you and i have heard this, oh, the polls are so bad. he can't win. he can't win. it's impossible. they're 110, 111 days left in this election. at this point, michael due duekakis is 16, 17 points, at this point, hillary clinton is going on

"saturday night live," mocking donald trump talking about how lucky that donald trump is her republican opponent. and everybody, everybody, let us say a few of us, said there's no way donald trump can win. no way. everybody. go back and look at the tape. in 2020, joe biden was supposedly up by 10, 12 points in michigan, wisconsin, a couple days beforehand, led me to saying i trust no polls. ended up being very tight. in '22, we heard about the red wave that never materialized. it's such bs. and those saying i was the only one saying there wasn't a red wave. really? no. i knew donald trump was going to win? really? no you didn't because we were mocked and ridiculed repeatedly saying donald trump could win in 2016. in 2022, everybody was talking about the red wave. i just don't see it. now, we hear from democrats on the inside, see also obama

supporters, saying there's no way he can win. he's down so low. it's all over. well, hearings the latest morning consult poll taken on monday. taken on monday. last week, before the tragic assassination attempt, donald trump was up by two points. on monday, it's just a snapshot, donald trump up by one point. according to a single day survey, trump leads by one point among registered voters nationwide. that's about 2,000-plus registered voters so a pretty good sample size. that's within the margin of error. in a poll conducted over three days last week, of course, trump led by two percentage points. so it's a one-point race. again, just a snapshot. but here's the deal, everybody, if you're looking at this, don't

look at the margins. look at the fact that it's a tie. this race is tied. and another snapshot poll, this one conducted yesterday. also shows november's election up for grabs. the latest reuters national survey says donald trump lead business two points, 43 to 41% among registered voters. again, a tie. now, let's go -- because people say, well, in the battleground states he's losing by 87 points. oh, oh, we must do something, david axelrod says on cnn. there's no way he can win said the pods, oh, it's all over. okay. let's go there. it's probably his weakest swing state, georgia. a fox 5 atlanta/insider advantage survey has trump winning three points in georgia over joe biden. 47% to 44% among likely voters in a swing state.

mike, that's about as close as georgia has been over the past several months. and in fact, a cbs poll that was out this weekend showed, again, a tie. it was a two-point lead by donald trump over joe biden in georgia. which, again, i saw six, seven, eight points about a month ago. now, let's look, for a second, what's happened. of course, we talked about the tragic assassination attempt. and the tragic killings at his rally. in pennsylvania. we talked about that. we talked ad nauseam about joe biden turning in the worst presidential performance ever in the history of televised debates before that. you know, these same people that are saying he must go were telling me, he's down ten points. i have it on authority he's going to be down ten points on

all of the polls coming out. i have a good authority. down by three. down by three points. we had the lester holt interview, saying, oh, he mumbled like chewbacca at the end. that's the end. we're not going to elect chewbacca, it's done. it's done. we had the press conference, he said president putin instead of president zelenskyy. oh, he said vice president -- it's over, it's done. people factored all of this in, mike. they factored it all in. joe biden, i got bad news for them and for joe biden -- joe biden wasn't good at talking in 1987. when he was humiliated from a race in probably one of the most humiliating endings to a presidential campaign imaginable. 2008, not much better.

the gaffes on the campaign trails, the things that made staff members go aye-yai-yai, what's going on with this guy? so people know joe biden, they factor this in. people know donald trump, they factored this in. now, all of this could change in a week, who knows. but right now, as we said yesterday, we live in a 46/46 country. not a 50/50 country. we live in a 46/46 country. and the democrats have got to either fish or cut bait. like if they can't drive joe biden from the race, they need to line up behind joe biden. because there's no middle ground here. the you're either united -- a house divided against itself can save you. you're either united or your side loses. they've got to make decisions fast. all of these stories about nancy furiously going around trying to

undermine joe biden, it's not working. i mean, i don't even know if that's true. we keep hearing about barack obama, and all of barack obama's people quietly working behind the scenes to undermine joe biden. if they are -- >> that's not helpful. >> -- it's not helpful, first of all. and secondly, it's not working with the rank and file base. after all of these historic moments and republicans are in milwaukee, they know they're going to win. just like, karl rove said joe biden can't win. i understand. he's turned in some terrible debate performance, he has trouble in interviews. he always has. but, again, i want to see the polling that says that. like, i want -- i want to see the numbers that say that. because all i hear is, huh, oh, there's a secret poll. oh, i looked at internals of candidates, and he's down by 87. every public poll that's come

out has this race tied, mike. even after two of the most historic events in recent american political history. >> yeah. you know, joe, i don't know what to believe in terms of polls now, right now, given the volatility out there in this country. i mean, the country was truly shaken to its core over the weekend. that's a given. and each and every day, it seems something happens in everyone's lives that cause them to look at our politics and say, oh, geez, i'm going to stay away from that. but with regard to joe biden, i was watching him speak in las vegas yesterday, and he clearly is going back to an old proven root for democrats. he's talking about issues where people live. and talking about what's going to happen if there's a change in administration. if the trump administration, or the trump/vance administration succeeds him and the losses that people will endure. and losses in terms what's going

to happen to social securitiy what's going to happen to medicare and medicaid? what's going to happen to the civil service function in this society where independent people will go to work each and every day for the federal government. what's going to happen to clean air, clean water, food, regulatory agencies that protect the public and make the public lives more safe, allow it to live more safely because of rules and regulations? what's going to happen to billionaires? are they going to become double billionaires or whatever they call themselves, trillionaires? what's going to have to the tax code with the trump administration next january or february? what's going to happen to people's lives on a daily basis? how much is the ordinary american going to lose after an incoming administration, people that live on the margins, people that live paycheck to paycheck what's going to happen to their lives? are they better off under the

republican administration, proven commitment to rich people in this country, proven as opposed to a biden administration, sort of fdr, jfk, lbj stuff? what's going to happen to people? that's the question that joe biden has to answer and that's the question he was pushing yesterday in las vegas, and he didn't look bad. >> you know, john, in that speech yesterday with the naacp, he said i'm all clear. he couldn't be more clear. he sent a letter to congress, need an answer, he said, i've made my decision, i'm all in. he reiterated that yesterday. those national polls are neck and neck. there has been some slippage, but mostly in the margin of error. trump has made up ground but my gosh those are all winnable the biden campaign will tell you. i think what people are seeing not the gaffs of joe biden in the past. they're seeing gaffs forring a.

but as they say, if he's too old for the job just say that. but you got to point to data saying if he can't win show that he can't win. >> yeah, the polls say he might be too old but the polls show this is a pretty static race. it just seemed so premature there are now pundits on saturday night or sunday in the wake of that shooting saying, that's it. we have this image. defiance image of donald trump fist and game over. it's clearly not. the biden campaign has work to do and that includes fending off voices in their own party. first of all, we're seeing the president go at coalitions. yesterday was black voters, naacp. today, he's got an event, squarely geared at latino voters. and this vote, towards progressives came from a call he had with them in the last few days. he's trying to shore up his bases. because there are still some

democratic lawmakers out there who want to see a change in the ticket. joe, that's why there's been fury in the last day or so about the plan for the dnc to move ahead with this virtual roll call which many democrats say, yeah, it was needed when ohio was trying to game the system and keep him off the ballot, it no longer is because the state pushed off that deadline and to democrats who are opposed to joe biden they feel like rushing that through silences the debate. the biden team simply says, this is the plan, we're staying with it. and listening to the president he's not going anywhere and he can still win. >> he's not going anywhere. and he's not -- let me say again, the day after the debate, i said he needed to consider stepping down. i said, let's wait a couple days see where this goes. if everybody was right, he was going to lose ten points. or if his family and him got together and decided he wasn't up for the job he needed to step aside. well, the guy with 14 million

votes from democrats in the primary said he's going to stay. and i know that may make some people that work in the obama administration angry. i understand that. they didn't like him when he worked in the obama administration. the stories i could tell, but i won't. >> huh. >> i mean, he says he's staying in it. we don't know what's going to happen. he may have another incident, right? but he's got the 14 million votes. he's got about 90% of the delegates. he's decided he's going to stay in the race, even after the worst debate performance -- not only of his life, but that any of us have seen in our lifetimes from a major presidential candidate. even after the tragic assassination attempt this weekend. even after donald trump's heroic response to that even after all of that we're still a 46/46

nation. you can whisper to everybody. you can call all of the big fundraising and all your billionaire friending saying don't give biden any money which is what's going on right now. call your billionaire friends all of those powerful people in media and politics try to push the guy off the ticket you can try to do it. they've been trying that three weeks. it's not working. he's saying he's not going anywhere. and if you look at the poll numbers, the people who actually answer these polls who aren't elitist billionaires in silicon valley. or in the media. or in washington, d.c., or on the upper east side of manhattan, those people are saying, you know what, we're good with the guy from delaware. we're good with a state school guy. we're good. that's what they're saying right now -- again, politics is fluid. it could change tomorrow. it could change the next day. the only thing i'm striking back

against here are people saying it's over, there's no way he can win. it's just 110 days. the only thing they're doing, as i said a couple days ago, democratic pollsters said only thing they're doing is hurting joe biden with democratic voters who marry this from democrats and then pull away from joe biden. >> some maga republicans are a lot of things that perhaps some americans fear in terms of the future of our democracy, but they are unified. and that is something that the democrats are not. and it's -- you know, when that debate performance happened, many, like you, said let's see what happens. let's give it a week. let's see. and the two things that people were focused on were performance and polls. so, let's think about that. the polls haven't really moved, right? so, you think after that debate performance -- >> they've tightened up. >> after that debate performance -- >> i don't know how that happened. it was a horrible debate.

it was just mmiserable. >> the president, i can only name a few, he's been on the road proving himself, that nato news conference which went well past 8:00 p.m., so nobody can make those snarky comments especially on the trump side, watching the president where he didn't do a lot of work daily. but the nato news conference showed the depth of his dynamics around the world as he took reporters around the world. >> police, give me transcript, any transcript from any donald trump conference while president of the united states talking on foreign policy, that is the transcript, the working knowledge between joe biden and donald trump. by the way, it's very funny, david axelrod a couple nights ago was going through when joe biden spoke on sunday night, he cut a word up.

he brings that up. >> i'm seeing that -- >> does david axelrod need to get off -- i mean, this happens. media people keep going -- oh, joe biden confused names. then they throw to somebody and they confuse the name. >> we do that. he also in that news conference talked about his time in the senate and how that experience has led that ability to pass historic bipartisan legislation at a time like right now, where you would think you couldn't get anything through. >> right. >> so, then, after the assassination attempt on donald trump, he held a message to the nation from the oval office telling people to bring the temperature down. i mean, he's doing everything right. he's doing events across the country. crowds are screaming we have your back. the question is, are democrats going to have his back, one democrat, barack obama. because if former president barack obama would step up and

get behind joe biden, that would stop all of this and that would make all the difference. it seems right now, after everything that has happened, it seems that that unity is more important than ever. because the republicans, trump republicans are going to steal that unified message from the democrats. >> right. you know, right now, it is a -- it's a choice. right now, it is a choice. maybe a couple weeks ago there was an idea, because everybody was calling, on the telephone, and talking about a brokered convention. an open convention. that was the dream. or talking about kamala harris, or talking about, you know, josh shapiro, that was the dream. that's not going to happen. unless -- unless really dramatic changes. joe biden keeps telling people, he told al sharpton this weekend, he told lester holt, he keeps telling everybody, i'm not leaving this race.

if that's the case, this race is very clear, a choice between donald trump and jd vance running the country for the next four years or joe biden and kamala harris. so 110 days left. a lifetime in american politics. but at some point, we said it last week, democrats have to come together. they just have to come together, unless they want donald trump and jd vance trolling washington, d.c., and changing the way washington works for the next generation. john heilemann, curious about your thoughts. you've heard the same thing i've heard. oh, the donors, it's all dried. you oh, people are calling saying, you know, saying it's all over. it's all over. i'm curious, your take on all of this, as we look, again, at polls that essentially have shown this race to be a dead heat. at least the public media polls. >> well, joe, i guess i'd say

two things, and one of them is that there's a dimension in the polling which is public that in the discussion you guys have been having so far you haven't talked about it, and i think it's one where -- and again, i'm not advocating a position here. i'm just reporting what -- >> sure. >> -- what democrats, fellow democrats and the president, those who are concerned and see a darkening picture, what they point to. they do -- they acknowledge what you have just been saying which is that the floor has not fallen out under joe biden. the polls are still margin of error. certainly at the national level and in the battleground states as previously determined. what we talked about is the battleground states. i think the dimension that's missing here that a lot of democrats we talked to it about is there are now a bunch of states in play that weren't at play before. you can see this in the public polling, new hampshire, virginia, new mexico, colorado, you're starting to see the

battleground map is now expanding. and it's expanding -- >> hey, john. >> -- it's expanding in a way that's not helpful to the biden campaign. yes? >> so, it's very interesting, minnesota, new hampshire, virginia were already slipping and were already in play before the debate. going into the debate, those three -- we had already seen this sort of slipping. so, again, they can say we made a terrible mistake picking joe biden as the democratic nominee if that's what will they believe because he's not strong against donald trump. but what they can say is those states are slipping because of his debate performance or anything since then because those numbers were going south even before the debate. >> well, i think -- that's true, in some cases. and less true than in others. i'll say this is a concern, right. when you think about where the locust of the concern is it's congressional democrats who are

worried -- i will say, a person whose name has not been uttered so far on this show, jay martin reported in politico this week, nancy pelosi who is still, according to martin's reporting and other reporting is still working the phones. and is working the phones in a way that's doing what you guys are talking about here that you think is deleterious. and nancy pelosi seems to have a feel for politics and polling. if you talk about congressional democrats what they're worried about now, they're worried about losing the house. and they're worried about the notion that the battleground map is expanding not contracting. that this is what republicans here in wisconsin, here in milwaukee are talking about is that there are more -- spreading the field out. and this is where the donor situation comes in, joe. and again, i'm not arguing for what's right or wrong here.

if that is the case, this is something for people inside biden world will acknowledge, if large donors decide they're going to close their checkbooks, for joe biden, he can still rely on small dollar donors and get to halfway where needed but if large donors say, you know what, we need to save the house and start redirecting that money. this is relying on grassroots donations and high dollar. and if high dollar moves over to the house that's going to be a restriction on joe biden's ability to compete. >> yeah, if the high dollar donors, the elites decide to leave joe biden, well, i guess they're contributing either directly or indirectly to trump or jd vance. john, every one of those points legitimate points. they've been legitimate points for the past three weeks. and joe biden has said he's not leaving under any circumstances.

and so, mika, at this point, i'm wondering, do they want to keep complaining? or do they want to start winning? >> yeah. >> you can't do both. >> review the question. >> you can't complain. you can't whine. you either follow, however flawed they consider them to be. follow the quarterback in the huddle, or you don't. and if they don't, that's fine. they're basically giving an in kind contribution to jd vance and donald trump. >> john heilemann, thank you. >> i know we have to go to break, but has anybody seen anything that suggests joe biden has decided to step down? >> no, people just keep asking. >> i think a brokered convention would be a very exciting thing. >> you want to take that risk? >> yeah, i'll take that risk, but it's not going to happen. coming up, the new york police department is warning of increase in political violence following the assassination attempt on donald trump.

the nypd chief of patrol joins us with a look at the new security measures being put in place across the city. "morning joe" will be right back. wait, no, i'm always hot. sleep number does that. can i make my side softer? i like my side firmer. sleep number does that. can it help us sleep better and better? please? sleep number does that. 94 percent of smart sleepers report better sleep. and now, free home delivery on select smart beds when you add adjustable base. sleep number smart beds starting at $999. shop now at sleepnumber.com reminder, bent finger appointment. i don't want to wait or have surgery for my dupuytren's contracture. i want a nonsurgical treatment.

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♪♪ beautiful live picture the sun coming up over new york city. it's 6:54 in the morning. the nypd is on heightened alert this week after the

assassination attempt on former president donald trump. while police stress there are no specific threats to the city, a new memo reminding officers to stay vigilant amid fears of violence. nypd brass has met at trump tower where a number of officers are protecting the former president's new york city residence. joining us nypd chief of patrol john shell and deputy director tariq shepherd. gentlemen, good morning. great to have you with us. chief, i said in the leadup there were no specific threats you all are aware of. when you see something like take place on saturday in pennsylvania. the attempt on the life of one of the most prominent new yorkers, what does that tell you and your thinking in the city? >> okay, the city, everything that happens nationwide ends up coming back to new york city in one way shape or form. when this incident happened i can tell you i was on the phone, i was on the beach, everyone is

calling the police commissioner saying what were we do to move quickly at trump towers, how can we be precautionary just to put up that footprint to keep areas safe in the city. we did that immediately. precautionary, no threats. >> deputy chief, we heard about the domestic threats, they worry about political violence, how much has that matrix changed for you in the last few years? obviously, you're still thinking about i.s.i.s. and extremism from outside the country, how much are you thinking about domestic terrorism? >> domestic extremism and terrorism is something that we talk about all the time. we work with the division, they're always on top of this. you can have plans there will always be vulnerabilities we just got to make sure we stay

vigilant and remind them these things can happen. one of the thins how to improve technology. keeping these plans safe. digital visits how do we use that technology more effectively. we're always looking for cutting-edge technology to keep all of these events and people safe in new york city. >> chief chell, threat level, measuring the threat level, daily incident reports i would imagine, what's the threat level today compared to four or five months ago? >> well, you know, in a city of 8 million people, think about it. even with the threats in the city, we're at a heightened alert because we are new york city. we're in tune with intel bureau, the federal partners. every minute of the day, something could happen. again, we have to move quickly just like going back to saturday, we have to move quickly to put up a posture of a

footprint to keep people safe. in this case, trump property, trump tower, it's everyday. >> can i ask you guys, it's not your jurisdiction, but when you saw what happened on saturday in pennsylvania, what were your initial questions that popped to your minds when you saw the layout, you saw the overhead view of how close that barn was to the stage, what did you think right away? >> i think we had the same questions that everybody else had, i think we have to wait for the interaction. after all of the incidents, what they call a hot wash. they'll go through everything. who is supposed to be where. but you have to remember, this is a multiagency operation. and we don't know enough right now to make a determination of what went wrong. we'll get all of that and incorporate that into our plan in new york city. one of the things i know, we work very well with the secret service. you know, a great partner. very competent people there. the pennsylvania state police. same thing.

we'll just wait to see what comes out and see how we can make new york city better. i do want to say, that sniper should be man of the year, so calm under pressure, ice water running through his veins, and he stopped a lot more people getting hurt out there. so kudos to the secret service sniper because that took a lot of pressure and cool. >> that was. chief chell, what did you think when you saw this? >> from a civilian point of view, who had the rooftop? the support, how were the communications. you hear different reports, 86, 26 minutes, 30 minutes, we have to get the facts together. but to bring it back to new york city when the former president was in the bronx, in the middle of the park, we had numerous --

like tariq said what's the plan, who is covering that. we know what we did, we did it well. how it was in pennsylvania, that remains to be seen. we can fix it. and thank god the former president didn't get seriously hurt. no plan is flawless, i'll tell you that. >> joe has a question. >> first of all, i agree, the countersnipers, it's hard to begin to imagine what the world would look like if they were not the pros that they were. and president trump had more grievous injuries and other people there had been shot and killed. so, i completely agree with you. it's extraordinary job on their part. chief chell, first of all, it's always an honor to have you here, an honor to have you here

for your service, the people of new york city and representing the nypd. who does so much every day to keep new york safe. thank you so much, god bless you for what you do. i wanted to ask you, though, every time something happens where a city or a state or somebody comes up short, and we didn't hear, on october 7th asking -- you know, what in the world -- where was idf? where was the army? why did it take them so long to respond? we always go back to the nypd. and you always have people saying experts. a case happened in new york city, dot, dot, dot -- you guys would have been on it just like that. let me ask you something, just maybe others can learn from what you do, i'd love to hear your insights, what did the nypd do, what did new york city do post

9/11 to become, really, more equipped at counterterrorism and these sort of attacks than most countries on the planet? >> well, we looked at the whole circumstance and what we were lacking. so back then, we didn't have a counterterrorism bureau. our intel bureau wasn't as big. so, you learn from what happens. and you have to look inward and build out and do it quickly. enlist professionals. other countries, and you put the apparatus together. and this is where we are today. so, we're a fast-moving, large agency, that by virtue of what you just asked about post-9/11, we can move rather quickly with good intel and secure locations quickly. but no plan is perfect, but the speed and communication is key to getting it done. >> mr. shepard. >> yeah, same thing.

when you see that we stood up, to what counterterrorism does, put the heavy weapons guys out there. made sure we surveyed the city for what are are the most vulnerable places we need people. but we get a lot of practice in new york city. we have a lot of events. even mistakes we made in the past that people have not seen because tragedy didn't happen we've learned from them. when you come to new york city now, plans are pretty tight, but as chief chell said none of them are without flaws. we have our partners here. we meet with our partners on a regular basis. there's a lot of plans. and we just hope something like this does not take place in new york city. but if there's an attempt or something does happen in new york city, we'll be ready to go. >> hey, chief chell, facts around crime. it's election season, obviously, a lot of bs flying around.

people saying new york city is more dangerous. i have people saying i'd love to go to new york city but it's just so dangerous. i'm like, dude, this is not 2020. this is not 2021. somehow, i dude explanation does not calm their jangled nerves as much as the real deal, the facts. can you let new yorkers and americans watching this show know how crime has gone down over the past three, four years? >> crime has gone down. you just said, we're new yorkers, we're tough. crime is down. do we want to be a bigger decrease? sure. did life change like you just said post-2020? absolutely. but we've stabilized the city. crime is coming down. cops are working hard. if you want to know if you want to come to new york city, just take a walk in times square any night of the week you tell me people come to the city and stay. come on down, 8 million people, joe, you're a new yorker, you're tough. this is what it is. >> yeah, look at our transit

system, january, up by 48%. we're the most adaptable police department in the country. up 48% in january. we sit 8% down now. that's a 56-point turnaround since january. we know what we're doing here and we know how to get it done. >> and reflective to crime rates across the country according to the fbi, crime is coming down in big city, john chell, and tariq sheppard, thank you for your service. we're grateful for you being here. mika. last night at the republican national convention, donald trump's final two challengers for the nomination took the stage giving full endorsements of the former president. of particular note was nikki haley, despite her extreme criticism of the former president late into the campaign. >> we should acknowledge that there are some americans who don't agree with donald trump

100% of the time. i happen to know some of them. and i want to speak to them tonight. my message to them is simple, you don't have to agree with trump 100% of the time to vote for him. take it from me, i haven't always agreed with president trump. but we agree more often than we disagree. >> donald trump was totally unhinged. unhinged. no matter what donald trump thinks he can't bully his way to the white house. it's not going to work.

>> well, i'm not afraid to say the hard truths out loud. i feel no need to condition the ring. >> now, to my fellow republicans, we must not only be a unified party. we must also expand our party. we are so much better when we are bigger. we are stronger when we welcome people into our party who have different backgrounds and experiences. and right now, we need to be strong to save america. this is a defining moment. not only for our party, but for our country. >> with donald trump, republicans have lost almost every competitive election. we lost the senate. we lost the house.

we lost the white house. we lost in 2018. we lost in 2020. and we lost in 2022. the worst kept secret in politics is how badly the democrats want to run against donald trump. >> of course, many of the same politicians who now publicly embrace trump privately dread him. they know what a disaster he's been. and will continue to be for our party. >> donald trump can't win a general election. >> so, she said he's totally unhinged. he's a bully. >> the private dread. >> electing him would be suicide for the country. he's in cognitive decline. he's a loser, on and on and on. you know, katty kay, in politics, you always have people fighting hard in the primary. and they come together at the end of the day. i will say, though, this -- for

everybody, whether it's marco rubio, or ted cruz or, you know, nikki haley, we can just go through the years. and of course, jd vance, his vp pick called -- you know, said he could be america's hitler. just the most extreme attacks against donald trump. and they are, in.wo the words o nikki haley now, all kissing the ring. the question is, is this just like every other political convention? or doesn't this seem a bit more extreme and the criticism of the people -- well, there you go -- somebody there -- lacks the moral center we need in the white house says the speaker of the house. america's hitler. questions jd. and i hate him passionately. so, i'm just wondering, donald

trump is fine with that, as long as they line up with him at the end. he's totally fine. but is this an extreme version of what happens every four years in every party? >> i think it's qualifyively different. nikki haley saying with donald trump on board to give the chance of winning you understand that, right, that would be the normal process of primaries and then into a general election. but it -- what's unique about donald trump is the number of people who have come out on the republican side who at one time or another either because they were running against him or because he's done something so egregious that they feel they should come out and say it have said things that are intensely personal about him. i don't remember anyone on the democratic side comparing barack obama to hitler. or george w. bush to hitler. this is the kind of language that is unique that has been

unique. then what you're seeing in milwaukee is the total folding of all of those people who have said those things who are very extreme in the party of central politics have come out and said we're going to condition the ring and join in this view of dmp dmp. it's an indication where the republican party is, jd vance is a reflection of that, it's not a party of ronald reagan or possibly joe scarborough. >> and jd vance said yes, i said all of those things but he proved he wrong, he was a good president. let's bring claire mccaskill and jonathan mart. i'll start with you, claire, it's not usual for vanquished candidates to rally around the nominee, but how critical. nikki haley was saying he's

diminished. he's like joe biden, he shouldn't be there because he's a diminished guy. mike and i were discussing his closing argument in new hampshire, look at the polls i beat joe biden. donald trump can't beat joe biden. don't come crying to me if you nominate donald trump and yet here we are. >> what makes this so different is feels more humiliating for the people doing this, whether it's desantis or haley. just because you know the depth of their dislike for donald trump. by the way, why are they calling it the republican party? it is not the republican party anymore. they just nominated a guy for vice president who says he doesn't care what happens to ukraine. how does that sit with nikki haley? le she gets that part of it, she gets 9 foreign policy rupture that's occurs that is occurring in what used to be the

republican party. it's the trump party now. there's nothing republican about it. all of the legs of the ronald reagan stool that stood for partisanism, that joe scarborough could speak to it more than i could. it's all gone. it's not the republican party. it's now about a guy, one guy, and his ability to market and the power of his personality to speak to grievance. it's not any more complicated tonight. >> jay martin, tonight is jd vance's night, in milwaukee, the headliner will be the new vice presidential candidate. tell us a little bit about what we should expect to hear this evening as he introduces himself to the nation. but also, as we've been discussing this is a full-on maga pick. >> yeah. >> no attempt by trump to rally any other parts of the party. and seen as a real rebuke to

some of the gop establishment, particularly those on national security, those who believe in defending ukraine and alliances? >> yeah, i wrote a column this morning, just how extraordinary this is to the already boiling national security debate on the coalition. people want to be team leaders, the mitch mcconnells of the world, they're not going to disrupt things during convention week. but privately, it's safe to say the reaganite wing of the party is appalled. jd vance is a true blue isolationist and is going to be trump's running mate and potentially could be in the white house for 12 years. yeah, you picked this up. what i'm already getting guys is early chatter about the cabinet. which to me says two things, number one is concern about vance, wanting to have a counter to vance in the sit room.

and number two, it's confidence they're going to win in november. but you're hearing talk if we're going to have vance as the vp, the hawks need somebody at the table, we got to get pompeo to the defense. so we can counter vance. there's deep concern what having vance means in trump's ear. and perhaps the last person who talks to trump on issues like ukraine. >> yeah. you know, jonathan, you know what's so fascinating, let's just tick through these, if you talked about not just reganism. >> right. >> but the ethos of the republican party even when i was there. >> yeah. i will say, there are some times, as you know, there are some times when we were young pushed back against the idea of just total free markets. 100% free markets. >> yes, sure. >> we didn't talk about free

trade. >> right. >> you know, bailing out other countries, et cetera, et cetera. >> sure. >> so there is sort of that conservative populism there but at the end of the day, it was about free markets. it was about immigration. it was ronald reagan's farewell speech, we have to be a continue that continues to throw if we want to continue to thrive. >> yeah. >> any strong national security posture. >> right. >> where we ensure this greater freedom across the globe. we have donald trump who is supporting massive tariffs. "the wall street journal" editorial page says the biggest tax increases out there being proposed are being proposed on the middle class by donald trump. that's "the wall street journal" editorial page. >> right. >> and again, completely shut down immigration. legal immigration, dreamers, et cetera, et cetera. again, very anti-reagan. and very republican establishment move at least from the past. and the 1930s isolation move.

sorry to take so long, but as claire said, that is not hyperbole, you take the three legs of reaganism and donald trump and jd vance have broken all three. >> joe, i'd actually add a fourth thing which is cultural conservatism. the party is defined especially on abortion rights which was very much a traditional conservative party. and obviously, donald trump has no interest in cultural traditionalism for reasons you talk about at great length here. so, if you add that, too, it's a real departure for what defined the party for really the last generation or so. and i think the pick of vance empathically sends that departure from the gop to reaganite party to the european-style populist national party. anti-immigration, you know, much more isolationist, inward

looking. not really engaged on cultural issues as traditionally defined. and, yes, happy to engage in a massive tariff regime to protect the country itself, instead of expanding markets and trade. it is a vast difference from the party you that served in and you came up with. >> yeah. and, you know, willie, what we're underlining here is not shock in donald trump's positions because these are the positions that helped him get the nomination in '16, '20 and again in '24, it's the pick of jd vance, it's the double down on all of that, instead of the country club types you that and meachem talk about, their hero is vest wearing peter navarro or youngkin, not an easy pick for donald trump, not something he would have been comfortable with but somebody again that would

have expanded the party and made some of these people that are so repulsed by the thought of voting for this ticket would draw them in. donald trump, really, he just -- again, he -- as j.-mart said, we're going full maga, this is not going look like ronald reagan's party. this is donald trump's party. this looks more like right-wing nationalists in europe. >> it's a legacy pick for donald trump to keep the maga movement going for generations. he'll be 40 years old, senator vance next month. he's young by political standards he's young. he's a guy that yesterday donald trump jr. said he should run in 2028. they're already thinking that way. i guess, claire, allowing nikki haley to speak last night. she was not originally scheduled to be there. in the last few days she was

added. i guess is donald trump begrudgingly saying, okay, i'll bring nikki haley into the fold if she's going to have the communities to decide the election. they appear to like her they continued to vote with her in primaries long after she got out of the race. let's bring her on board, we don't have to be best buddies but maybe she can get me enough votes to help me win. >> yeah, i don't think the people voting for nikki haley in those primaries were voting for her as much as they were voting against trump. >> yeah. >> i think there's a segment of the republican party that longs for the old republican party that rejects donald trump because of his nonsense, because of the chaos, because of the incredibly ugly ego, narcissistic personality that he displays every day. so, i'm not sure that happens. but i think the calculation -- first of all, i don't think -- donald trump may give a soft and sweet speech thursday night, who knows but that's not who donald

trump is. that's not how he got there. that's not how he's going to get back there. he believes he's going to get back to the white house through one thing, and that is enthusiasm of his base. and he believes that jd vance does more to help that, especially at the edges of young people, and maybe some people of color that jd vance is going to go after in a way that is all about economic populism. in front of the republican president this week, teamsters president, can you imagine that happening under ronald reagan? i don't think so. i don't think the teamsters president would be there. this is about the fear of what both parties may have of what the other party represents. and i believe that democrats have a much stronger case to make on being fearful of a second trump term than the trump folks have to be making about

joe biden. >> all right. senior political columnist for politico jonathan martin thank you so much for being on. we appreciate it. j.-mart. still ahead on "morning joe," democratic senator bob menendez is vowing to appeal after being found guilty on all counts of his federal corruption trial. we'll show what you other members of the party are saying including congressman and democratic senate candidate andy kim who is opening to win menendez's seat this november. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. when you purchase a pair of bombas socks, tees, or underwear, you also donate one to someone facing homelessness. one purchased equals one donated.

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welcome back. democratic senator bob menendez of new jersey was found guilty on all charges at his corruption trial in new york city yesterday. the 70-year-old was charged with 16 felony counts including extortion, obstruction of justice, conspiracy, acting as a foreign agent and accepting bribes, including cash and gold bars to benefit the governments of egypt and qatar. the jury deliberated for a total of about 12 1/2 hours over three days before returning the guilty verdicts. two other businessmen who faced trial, alongside menendez were also convicted on all counts. the senator spoke to reporters

outside the court. >> obviously, i'm deeply, deeply disappointed by the jury's decision. i have every faith that the law and the facts do not sustain that decision. and that we will be successful upon appeal. >> joining us now nbc news capitol hill correspondent ali vitali. and former u.s. attorney and msnbc legal analyst joyce vance. she's co-host of the sisters in law podcast. joyce, we'll start with you. explain the charges he was convicted of. what was happening here? and how likely is he to be successful on appeal just on what you're seeing? >> so, this is a classic public corruption indictment where there are multiple charges designed to capture all of the aspects of the criminal conduct. that's why you see charges for bribery, for extortion, for wire fraud, for conspiracy, for

obstruction, all in this one indictment. and what that means, mika, you know, in every criminal trial there will be an after-the-fact assessment by attorneys to see whether there's any error. was evidence admitted that was impermissible. were the jury instructions valid in all of their particulars. but with this number of charges it's very unlikely that the defendant will find an argument that will mean all of the convictions will be reversed. this was a strong case brought by prosecutors. and it's a great reminder of how our criminal justice system is intended to work. this case went to trial eight months after it was indicted, despite two superseding indictments. it's a complicated case. obviously, with these 16 different charges. the system still can work how it's intended to. >> so, what does he face in terms of a sentence, or consequences here? >> right. so, criminal sentencing in the federal system is a little

complicated with a lot of moving pieces. it's tough to predict in advance, but a number of these charges he's convicted on carry a 20-year maximum sentence. under federal sentencing guidelines, the judge is very unlikely to sentence that high. but it will be a custodial sentence. and it's likely to be significant for two reasons. one is the dollar amount of the fraud. sentencing in a case like this is pegged to the amount of fraud not just was achieved but the amount of the fraud that was attempted and then there will be an enhancement because the senator abused the public trust to commit these crimes. and the federal sentencing guidelines provide for explicit bumpups in a sentence for a sentence who does that. >> let's turn to the politics of this, ali vitali, watching all of that, where does this go comitt politically, what are the options? >> it's going to be tough once

he comes back to the senate, mika, especially because before this verdict, we had 30 of menendez's democratic colleagues calling for him to resign. that number has gone up by ten. 41 have said the senator should leave his post from new jersey. a stunning proposal for a powerful chairperson who has served in the senate since 2006. he's really been a mainstay in the halls of congress and in the halls of the senate. but two things can happen here just because he's convicted of these crimes does not mean that he has to resign his senate seat. instead, though, what we're seeing from his colleagues is them saying either you do this yourself, or we will expel you from the body. that's something that takes a two-thirds majority in order to do. it's rarely used. in many of the cases where senators have been convicted, as menendez has, their terms have lapsed, and they have not run for re-election. that's the second political question because menendez is

still in the midst of an independent bid to keep his seat. his challenger, of course, congressman andy kim, announced in part because of these allegations now he reiterated yesterday his calls for menendez to step down. >> nbc's ali vitali and former attorney joyce vance thank you very much. willie. >> let's bring in the aforementioned democratic congressman and democratic candidate for senate andy kim. he's looking to oust the senator this november while the incumbent runs. congressman, glad to have you with us. your reaction to the bribery, extortion, acting as a federal agent, conspiracy and certainly counts do you believe that senator menendez needs to step aside? >> yeah, i look at this two ways. one of is i work a job, the senator works a job, we work jobs in the constitution of the united states. that should call upon us to be held to the highest level of

accountability add standard. the second part is for the people of new jersey. 84% of people in new jersey surveyed believe their elected officials are corrupt. how can a democracy function? how can the state be able to manage all of the challenges we face with that much distrust. we have a crisis of trust in government right now in new jersey and around the country. and that compels the senator to do the right thing for us. and allow us to be able to move forward, turn the corner and try to restore a sense of integrity. >> senator menendez's colleague from new jersey said he will help lead the effort to compel bob menendez from the united states senate. chuck schumer came out yesterday for the first time saying, okay, now we have convictions it's time he has got to go away. should senator menendez be expelled from the senate? >> if it comes that way, i expect the senate to move in that direction for the sake of the new jersey and the country the best option is for the

senator to own up to what has happened. he had his day in court which is what he asked for. he had a fair shot at this and the people and jury deliberated and decided he should accept that and on his on volition step down. if that does not happen, i believe that the senate will move forward with that vote. >> and it's very clear that your former colleague will not accept this. he says he doesn't believe it's a fair and accurate verdict and he's going to appeal. he doesn't look like he's going anywhere. >> yeah, i don't even know where to start with this guy. i mean, who does this? who is put on trial for criminal acts as a united states senator. and it's a hung jury, he's not acquitted. then he comes back takes cars, gold bars and cash stuffed in jackets then stands up in the courthouse and acts like he's a victim? the most selfish act possible is for bob menendez not to look in

the mirror and realize for the good of his country --ful he cares about his country he needs to get out of town. by the way, what jerk blames his new wife at the trial. who does that. >> cancer-stricken wife we should add. >> i would use a word right now they would not like me to use in the control room. he is just a word that starts with an an "a" and ends with a an "e." i think they should call the vote next week. and let the republicans stew in the fact that they prosecuted a democratic politician and they maybe want to protect him? what kind of hypocrisy would that be, let's call the vote and kick his amount ss out. >> just with the two vowels i know what the word is. mike. >> but, claire, back to the -- >> sorry, i'm just out of my tree about this guy. >> talking about the institution

itself. congressman kim was talking about the obligation of public officials. and the institution itself once revered not for longer revered. >> that's the other thing, i feel for congressman kim. because, you know, new jersey has had more than its fair scare of scandal around politicians. it really is time. i think the con man represents a new day in new jersey politics. some of the old people have fallen away. there have been other convictions that have occurred. i think it is time for new jersey to move to a new, brighter future without corruption. and, listen, is expulsion extreme? yeah, the people that have been expelled from the united states senate most of them fought for the confederacy, and part of the confederacy, so this would be something that is extreme. but i think it's time for that barnicle. i think it's time for the united states senate to be strong against people who take gold

bars from foreign country it's. or chairman of the foreign relations committee of the united states senate. >> access to classified information. >> all of that. >> a threat to our national security. >> all of that. all of that. >> congressman you're very clear about that. let's get you on another topic you've been talking about this morning, president biden wants to stay on top of the ticket. there's no push for a virtual roll call to officially nominate in a week or so. well ahead of the chicago convention. do you agree with that? many lawmakers, many of your colleagues have spoken out sharply against it saying why are we rushing it, we're still having a debate whether or not he's the best to lead the party? >> yes, the question is what is necessary, given the time lines out there. as far as ohio goes, we've seen the resolution to that issue, in terms of what ohio has done. so, the point here is, when we move forward as a party, we have to do so with unity. right now, we're certainly having our discussions and our

debates. and to try to force something right now, push something that's premature, that's not needed given what we've seen with the resolution, i don't think that's the right way to go forward. you know, i think there's room for to us have tough conversations with each other. we should do it now, as 91 who has lived through that build back better time. i don't think we should be messaging to one another through twitter. i think we should find ourselves in a room, lock the door, until we come up with a strategy and understanding of what it is going for. >> do you believe, congressman, the president should stay in the race? >> well, that's his decision. >> he's made his decision he's staying in. >> and look, i think right now, if he wants to proceed in that direction. >> he does. >> he needs to show we have unity amongst the rest of the democratic leadership. that is something that we don't have right now. so, i do think it's on him to be able to bring everyone together and to be able to have those conversations. lay out the strategy, the conversations we have so far

have not gone to the level of depth that's clearly needed for us to be able to think this through. i respect it. i've worked for him at the white house. i understand he thinks he is somebody that is not going to be pushed into a decision. he's somebody that i think would be better for us to surrender ourselves, have that kind of up front conversation in person. rather than everything that's been laid out in social media. i don't think this process that's happening right now is beneficial for our party. >> he's been clear again and again, including yesterday, i'm all in, i'm staying in the race. it seems like democrats can't take yes for an answer. so what is the conversation that's happening right now among your colleagues? >> well, i think the conversation that everyone wants to know is what is the full strategy going forward? what's going to change coming out from the debate, going forward, in terms of how it's going to be messaged. what his posture will be in terms of public appearances and

other things like that. we just haven't had that conversation. i think a lot of our colleagues, myself included don't feel like we've gotten the full sense of that. and i think there's still room, that's not best to be done through, again, through twitter and social media. i really think at this point we need to be able to show unity. look at what we're seeing right now with the republican national convention. >> right. >> we're seeing a tremendous amount of effort on their end to try to project unity. and unity around very scary and dangerous proposals that will change this country forever. i'm a father with a 7-year-old and 8-year-old. i don't want them growing up in america with donald trump back in office. this is very serious for a lot of us. we want to make sure we're in the position -- trump ran twice. i know what it takes to be able to win tough ideas. i have ideas to be able to contribute. and our party should be able to unite around that approach for what it means for our country at this point. >> joe. >> well, congressman, does that

mean then that the politician and president got 14 million votes in the democratic primary that has about 90% of delegates that he needs to be surrounded with support? i mean, because at this point, he has told everybody he's going to stay in the race. he told reverend al over the past weekend. he's in the race for good. he's told everybody else, he's in the race for good. we've talked about it before. and it's just polls -- you know, i was once a politician. and, you know, i always look at trend lines and polls. i didn't look at the exact numbers but i did follow, i've got to say, every poll i've seen out the last week, even polls after the tragic assassination attempt actually show a tightening race. 43/42.

morning consult, 46/45. what else do we have here? -- ipsos 43/41, georgia race, now within three points. i don't obsess over a lot of things but democrats are -- just out from 538, their projection, joe biden, 277 electoral votes based on all of their polling data. donald trump, 261 electoral votes. and they say that is the highest joe biden since may the 20th. so there's really not a good argument to be made, is there, that what's happened over the last couple of weeks, no matter how bad it's been stylistically has hurt him in the polls? because they've actually tightened up, haven't they congressman? >> yeah. look, i certainly think there's a real path to victory. i believe we can win with the approach we're taking but it's

about how do you close that last gap. how do you get the last few points that can bring you over the top. get the people who are still undecided. and there needs to be a strategy about that right now. i think that's the conversation that needs to happen within the democratic party leadership to be able to get everybody on board and that's not where everyone is at right now. >> congressman -- congressman, 14 million democrats across the country who still obviously support it -- if you look at the polls, 14 million democrats. how would you feel if you won your democratic primary by 85%. and then when you get into the general election campaign you had, like, naysayers and party bigwigs saying, congressman doesn't align. he needs to get out of the race. would you get out of the race? >> look, that's not what i'm saying. this is a decision for the president. >> he's made that.

>> for the nominee. >> congressman, congressman, he's made the decision. he's running. he's in it to win it. >> i'm talking about the strategy, the message, how do we close those final points. that's what i want to hear from him. and what i think we can then say how can we help? what is our role? certainly, what's my role in new jersey, what's the role across the board. so, i think that's the kind of approach that we should be taking. and i think that will help us unify as quickly as possible. >> new jersey congressman -- >> go ahead, joe. >> i'm sorry, willie. nobody knows. nobody knows who's going to win, who's going to lose. nobody knows what's going to happen next week, next month. it's a very volatile race. i'm just saying right now he's made his decision. so, i'm not exactly sure what the two-step is all about with members of congress and billionaire donors.

and media types. i'm not sure what they're waiting for. >> congressman kim, thank you for your time this morning. we're watching your race very closely. appreciate you being here this morning. >> thank you. claire, you've been looking at the polls the ones we've been talking about this morning, curious as an experienced politician what you see there. congressman kim is speaking to something that is very real. there was a call to democrats on capitol hill on saturday that reportedly from a number of sort sorts sources did not go well and then the attempt on the president's life that pushed back concerns. but what are you hearing from your former colleagues on capitol hill? >> i think the circle around the president has gotten tighter which is understandable, under the circumstances. but the members of congress, both in the house and senate, i think, want that circle open up enough that they feel like there's some real communication going on between the biden campaign and those people who

are going to be on the ballot. and let's not forget how important it that the democrats take the house. and how important that the democrats hold the senate. and, you know, the polling that is standing out to my senate colleagues was polling this week in the battleground states where you had an arizona of 15-point swing between the democratic senate candidate and joe biden. and you had a 15-point swing in nevada between the democratic senate candidate and joe biden. 13 points in wisconsin. 15 points in pennsylvania. 10 points in michigan. so that is telling my former colleagues in the senate that the policies are okay. these senate candidates are doing fine in the states that joe biden must win. so they are anxious to hear the strategy about how he overcomes this wide gap between how democrats on the ballot are doing. and now joe biden on the ballot is doing. and i think that's fair. i get that he's made the

decision. i get it that he can win. i get it that this race is baked in. but i think it's fair for these elected officials to want to have more dialogue about it. >> well, claire if -- i'm sorry, again, claire, if any of those candidates were running the senate races and had everybody bitching and moaning on local arizona stations and local nevada stations -- you know what it's like when you run for office. like, you're used to sniping from the other side. but when it comes from your own team, that's really -- yeah, that will drive your numbers down pretty fast. >> well, listen, i'm not sure it's fair to say that the difference in these polling in these battleground states is just because some democrats said out loud what people said in the debate. age has always been an issue in the campaign. >> right. >> it's been from the very beginning and that's not changed. i never said that joe biden should drop out. i said we should have an honest

conversation about the best way to defeat donald trump. that's where the unity is. >> who is "we"? >> when i say "we" i'm really referring to folks i'm talked to that are going to be on the ballot with joe biden. i think they want to be sharpened up enough to have a good plan. by the way, i feel for joe biden, the level of performance required by him is almost not human. that's not fair either. we cannot expect him to say every word perfectly. >> he never has. >> he never has. he's always been a gaffe machine. always been a gaffe machine. i think the expectation put on him it terribly unfairly and the pressure he must feel is unbearable. i think if they reach out to elected officials i think this

can heal itself. i really do. all right. coming up a senior adviser to the biden/harris campaign, former mayor of atlanta keisha laynce bottoms is our guest. we'll get what's happening with the convention and what we can expect in the biden campaign in the coming weeks. "morning joe" is coming right back.

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we're losing our country. under joe biden, millions of illegal aliens flood our borders and fly hamas flags on our campuses and shout death to america. >> joe biden's border's are kamala harris and the senate put the welfare of illegals ahead of our own citizens. they have destroyed our border, and they will destroy america if we don't stop them. >> how did we get here? it happened because democrats cynically decided they wanted votes from illegals more than they wanted to protect our children. >> the democrats have handed over control of my state, arizona's border, to the drug

cartels. because of them, criminals and deadly drugs are pouring in and our children are dying. but the solutions, guys, are really simple. first of all stop the biden invasion and build the wall. >> build the wall! build the wall! >> that's kari lake, one of the chief election deniers getting a primetime spot at the republican convention, and some of the rhetoric there at the convention last night, and mayor keisha lance bottoms joining us. you were watching the rnc last night, and you hear the messaging out of there, and the message is the border is open and people are flood into the

country and the economy and inflation is too high, and you heard the argument. what is your response? >> so much for the unity message, right? it's the same old rhetoric coming out of this maga republican party. it's about making people afraid. it's about attacking immigrants in this country. it's about all of these false narratives that really aren't helping move the needle in this country. it's very disappointing because this is a party that used to represent something other than hate and fear. what i have watched the past couple of nights, there has not been a shift, just a smile with it. >> mike barnicle, what all of those people said, illegal

immigration and border crossings are down, and everybody knows fentanyl is shipped in so walls won't stop it, and this is the 300 gop elephant in the room, we had the toughest control bill order in our lifetime drafted by a hard core conservative, oklahoma senator, james langford, and donald trump said kill this bill, because it will help joe biden, and kill the bill because we want to win the election. everybody up there if they are in elected office, they are the ones that killed it for political reasons. they wanted to keep the border

open, so they did. >> the leader of the choir of negativity was speaker johnson, and the senate already had the message to vote the bill down. mayor bottoms, how do we reach the people with the truth and about immigration, and bigger, how do we reach the people in the country, payroll to payroll, about what the biden administration has done for them and what will happen to their progress under a trump administration? >> the president has to do just what we have seen him do over the past week or so and that's take the message directly to the american people. i give the example of extremes even in my own family. if i want to reach my mother, we will turn on the television and she will watch me this morning on cable news and she will get

the information where she needs to be informed. if i want to reach my son, we have to take it to social media. it's hard to break through but this is why the messaging is important across all platforms, continuing to tell the truth, continuing to get out information from trusted news sources, and then just talking to our fellow americans and reminding them what this administration has done. over the past week or so i have been asking everyday people how they are feeling about the election. what they are saying to me, we want joe biden as our nominee. people need to leave him alone. we need to move forward. this is what everyday folk are saying, and we hear washington and the discussions around immigration and we heard it coming out of the rnc, and we have talk to each other and tell

the truth to each other. >> and so president biden joke in las vegas yesterday where he slammed donald trump where he claimed migrants come into the country illegally are taking, quote, black jobs. >> i love his phase, black jobs. tells a lot about the man, and about his character. folks, i know what a black job is. it's the vice president of the united states. [ applause ] >> i know what a black job is. the first black president in american history, barack obama. i was vice president to barack, and she is my vice president.

i nominated the first black secretary of defense in american history, and doing one hell of a job. i nominate the first black woman to the united states supreme court. it mattered. it mattered! and i promised myself, and i promised america, that my administration would look like america, and i am proud we have the most diverse administration in all of history, and we tapped into the full talents of our nation. that's who we are. >> jonathan lemire, very powerful message. it's a powerful message because, yes, you have these examples, vice president, of course, he talked about president obama who he served under, and also talked about the first black woman to

be on the united states supreme court. that's all pretty inspiring, but you look at the number of u.s. attorneys, look at the federal judges appointed, and it's almost a complete switch from donald trump who, you know, the first couple of years basically pointed to white men, the overwhelming number of white men, a disproportionate number of white men, so there's quite a contrast between the two sides. >> it's noteworthy that was the president's first campaign event since saturday's shooting, and we have seen polls and campaign officials acknowledge privately, there's a slip in support, including black voters for president trump, and they are showing a little more towards donald trump or a third party candidate or they might stay

home. that was a fiery speech yesterday, but what else can the campaign do to say, he's still your guy? >> we have to remind people what this president and administration has done, and polls are a snapshot in time, and there were concerns about the red wave that didn't happen, and even going back to 2020 during the primary season, there was a concern that joe biden wouldn't be the nominee. he proved them wrong. what we saw at the naacp convention, joe biden does best when his back is up against the wall, and we have to remind people what the administration has done and then it will be easy to make a decision between two candidates, and we look at what has been pouring into the cities, infrastructure dollars and the list goes on. you all know what has happened

with the administration, and we have to continue to remind people how it has made a difference in their everyday lives. >> you know, mayor, getting young people to show up will be part of the challenge here. i think the vast majority in the country reject donald trump and his view of america and what it means in their lives, but getting them to show up. if you were with the biden campaign, what is the one issue that they could use to motivate young people and the stakes are so high they have to turn out to vote in the election. >> it's hard to talk to young people and break through, and they often don't listen until the last minute, and then sometimes they dip out on you and come back in. when senator warnock was elected, we took it directly to the young people, talking about student debt loan forgiveness is

a huge issue with young people in georgia, and also talking about the opportunities that are now before them that they didn't have under the previous administration. this is an inclusive administration that sees all of us. it's frustrating, and as frustrating with the discourse as this is happening, whether or not the president should move forward, and those are private conversations. as we remind people we want their choices heard, we need a president that listens to them, and biden has shown that repeatedly. >> senior adviser to the biden campaign, keisha lance bottoms.

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last night, also interesting events at the rnc, some that said donald trump was a threat to america, and what else -- nikki haley kept talking about he needs to take a test -- >> well, that's what she did

say, but she changed her tune at the very last minute. >> but ron desantis was tougher on him, right? >> used to be, but all of a sudden it changed. last night at the republican national convention, they called for unity within the party and a focus on president biden. >> we should acknowledge that there are some americans who don't agree with donald trump 100% of the time. i happen to know some of them. and i want to speak to them tonight. [ applause ] my message to them is simple. you don't have to agree with

trump 100% of the time to vote for him. take it from me, i haven't always agreed with president biden, but we agree more often than we disagree. >> we need a commander-in-chief who can lead 24 hours a day and seven days a week. america cannot afford four more years of a weekend at bernie's presidency. >> didn't we have that with all that executive time and golfing? is that what i remember? >> i am confused about what they said in the primary and what they said last night. j.d. vance, of course, will be talking tonight, and he was the one that said christians shouldn't vote for donald trump, but tonight, of course, that will have all changed. he also said extraordinary

things about him, and nikki haley said donald trump was too hold to be president of the united states and now offering her endorsement. >> joe, look, the people in the -- in your former party who going back, we saw ted cruz and little marco, little marco rubio that said incredibly harsh things about donald trump the last time there was a real republican convention in 2016. there was a floor fight where ted cruz said some of the harshest things you could imagine about donald trump. this is the story of the trump era, where people have been publicly or privately of donald trump and said he was disqualified for being president for one reason or another and then turned around and capitulated to him.

in the case of nikki haley, it's really more egregious than almost anybody, because even compared to ron desantis, ron desantis said critical things about trump in the primary, but they are within the bounds we heard in nomination contests, and kamala harris criticized joe biden back in 2020. nikki haley was different, and you guys remember, and i was out there with her in new mexico and south carolina, and her criticism of trump got harsher and harsher, and we talked about it on this show. nikki haley was taking a stand, and she reported the way he behaved in a room with vladimir putin, and she said things that were not merely critical, but the things that democrats say about donald trump. the question of what she was at heart was on the table.

i think there was always a school of thought, which was, ultimately nikki haley is all about nikki haley, and she would eventually endorse him. and others say, i think she changed and she found her voice. we found last night which -- who nikki haley is. >> let's go through some of these. i just looked at old articles here, katty. >> she said donald trump would be suicide for our country, and she called donald trump unhinged. she questioned donald trump's mental fitness and that he take a cognitive test. here are a couple other highlights or lowlights of her campaign against donald trump. >> of course many of the same politicians who now publicly

embrace trump privately dread him. they know what a disaster he's been and will continue to be for our party. donald trump can't win a general election. >> wow. >> katty, it's almost like she is a magician, and she can predict the future right there. after saying he was unhinged and he was not all there and needed to take a cognitive test and was too hold to be president of the united states, and some of the republicans that say this that work for him, and then quietly go on to support him. nikki haley, meet nikki haley. >> yeah, that february comment is the particularly telling one, and it represents everything we have heard over almost eight years of donald trump, all of these republicans that seem to be afraid of him and have grown

increasingly afraid of him because they think if they don't get his endorsement they won't be elected or re-elected, and with nikki haley, we noticed it, became much more confident of her own voice. we saw her there last night vaguely trying to thread the needle saying i don't always agree with him and i am not one of those people that i criticized so roundly where i said one thing about donald trump but now saying another, and i don't always agree with him. the stunning way about this convention is how donald trump managed to align the party under his visions. i don't know what percentage of people there in milwaukee don't love donald trump, but i am not sure nikki haley does represent the republican party anymore. this is the crowd that adores him, but the people who are

speaking one after another, maybe they don't like him in private, but you get no sense of that. this is a party that has fallen fully under donald trump's thumb. >> you and i stood on the eve vote, and nikki haley compared him to joe biden and said he was not the same guy he was when i worked in the administration and became more unhinged than before, and the line she kept using over and over was, don't blame me come november if he vote for donald trump, he will lose to biden, don't blame me, and now here she is at the convention giving a full throttle endorsement. >> i don't think she realized

then and probably still doesn't realize now what an outlier she is within what used tobt republican party. the republican party, its brand now is donald trump and has been for quite sometime. jonathan, you talk to people in washington all the time and there has to be an awareness that this is not only unique in the century, it's unique maybe in the political american history. donald trump has managed to come from the outside, the business world, and completely co-opt and takeover the party. >> he has taken over the party and reshaped it. evidence of that, his running mate, j.d. vance, seen as the maga apparent, and this is pure trumpism. a couple rally conventiongoers

were seen with bandages on their ears to support donald trump. she tried to create a permission structure, you can disagree with him and still vote for them. it was not that long ago, republican primaries, there were still republican primaries where a sizeable percentage of voters, willie, republican voters, were still not voting for donald trump and they were voting for nikki haley or making a protest vote. it's not clear if those voters will come to trump. some during that process seemed open to president biden. if haley is saying, hey, we should get behind him, and it's not clear if they will because trump has made zero effort to try and win them over. >> nikki haley was getting lots of votes, mika, after she dropped out of the race, long after she dropped out in some cases.

but it's quite an image last night that we are seeing there in milwaukee where donald trump walks into the hall and watches the parade of candidates that criticized him in very, very personal ways, calling him perhaps a suicide mission, as she put it for "the wall street journal," saying he's unhinged and diminished and all of these things, and watching him come to heal and supporting donald trump. haley says the hope is that on the trump campaign she can bring with her those skeptical, perhaps suburban women that will decide the election. >> we will see what happens there. three sources tell nbc news president biden is getting ready to endorse significant reforms to the supreme court. the president is weighing legislation that would establish term limits, and an updated code of ethics for justices. any reforms to the high court would require congressional

approval, which remains unlikely given republicans control the house and the democrat's in ability to break a filibuster in the senate. joining us from the post, tyler pager. he was the first to report this story. what can you tell us? >> thank you for having me. this is a significant shift for the president, who has resisted calls from members of his own party to endorse reforms to the supreme court. we are expecting him to formerly back some of these changes, you know, in the coming weeks. i think, you know, it's obviously facing long odds of being enacted would need approval, and it shows how the public court changed its identity in the last few years,

and in 2020 when biden was running for president, he said he would study some of the proposed reforms. wrote a nearly 300-page report and that was it, didn't enact it at all. this decision on trump's immunity, and overturning roe v. wade, and we have seen the public's approval decline, and we are expecting him -- democrats long awaited for him to do this, throw his support behind some of the reforms. >> tyler, because they have not gotten the decisions they wanted over the last few years, many progressives called for an expansion of seats on the supreme court and the president stopped short here. what is significant to this that is symbolic where you have to get 60 votes to do any of this and two-thirds to get constitutional amendments on some of these things. that's unlikely given the way

our congress is divided right now. so is this sort of a symbolic signal to the progressive base in an election year? >> yeah, absolutely. this is not -- we're not going to see the president come out and support of court expansion, and that's one idea he long has been opposed to and remains so worried what that would mean going ahead. this is absolutely a symbolic measure, something where he wants to signal his views on the court. we are obviously just, you know, a few months away from an election, and this is often a time when we see presidents or major party political candidates roll out new policies or signal their support. but i do think it's still significant the sitting president of the united states is poised to call for these reforms, particularly term limits would be a monumental change to the workings of the supreme court, and obviously still has long odds of passing congress, but still a huge shift for biden and for the country as they change their opinions of

the high court. >> you know, the united states may be, i believe it's one of the only western democracies if not the only western democracy that does not have term limits for their supreme court justices. there just usually is. so as far as reforms go, mika, right now, i have great reverence for the court and for federal judiciary, and it continues to act as a level even though we may not agree with everything that comes down the pike, but that said, right now the supreme court standing with the american people has fallen -- >> credibility is low. >> and their credibility is shot. it comes after the dobbs union,

a 50-year precedent that 60% of americans did not want overturned, and clarence thomas, and as far as people finding out the supreme court justices short of live by their own ethics rules and there are no guidelines whatsoever. the numbers are really getting knocked down, so an idea like this, which may have been very unpopular ten years ago, probably because of the lack of discipline by some of the justices on the court and how politicized they and their families have become, unfortunately, it casts a bad shadow for the roberts court so something like this may actually connect, and not with just progressives but a lot of americans. >> a lot of ugliness politically. the dobbs ruling having an immediate and searing impact on the lives of women across america for everyone to see. >> and an immediate sort of jolt

to american politics in a way that has damaged those that pushed for restrictions on women's access -- >> taking away 50 years of freedoms. still ahead on "morning joe," bob menendez has been found guilty, and we will see what fellow democrats are saying. we are going to talk about the continued infighting with democrats and going to be asking how long it will fast and to what end? especially when we show you a couple polls that have been released since this weekend. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be back in 90 seconds. ♪ ♪ and reduced fatigue with rinvoq. check! when flares kept trying to slow me down i got lasting steroid-free remission with rinvoq. check! and when my doctor saw damage, rinvoq helped visibly reduce damage of the intestinal lining. check! for both uc and crohn's: rapid symptom relief

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i don't think they can win with joe biden. i think the only way is to find a way for him to say i'm not running and to replace him at the democratic convention in august and hope to god that that gives them a shot. i frankly can't see how he can

recover from the kind of sentiment is out there. it's not new and only been made worse by the events of the last couple of weeks. president trump has been seen as the stronger of the two men for over a year, and then donald trump pushes his way through secret service agents and raises his fist as defiance. >> karl rove with that analysis yesterday on fox business. as the republicans present a united front at their convention this week, democrats remain fractured. a group of house democrats want them to delay the roll call, and they want to move that up to

make sure the party meets ohio deadline to certify the ticket, but the ohio lawmakers changed that deadline pushing it past next month's democratic convention. now some have signed a letter saying the roll call is not necessary, citing concerns over the president's campaign. >> this is what is so interesting. mike barnicle, i will show you some polls here, because, you know, my feeling, mike, is if they just want to say that joe biden is too diminished and he needs to step aside, then just say that. instead, they go, oh, the polls -- you and i have heard this, the polls are so bad, he can't win, it's impossible. there are 110, 111 days left in this election.

at this point in '88, mike ducacus was 16 points ahead, and hillary clinton was mocking donald trump, and everybody -- everybody -- i would say a few of us said there was no way donald trump could win, no way. everybody. go back and look at the tape. in 2020, joe biden was supposedly up by 10, 12 points in michigan and wisconsin a couple days beforehand and led me to saying i trust no polls and ended up being very tight. in '22, we heard about the red wave that never materialized, and it was bs and i want to use a much stronger move. i was the only one that knew there was not going to be a red wave? really, really?

no, no, you didn't know. in 2022, everybody was talking about the red wave. i just don't see it. now we hear from democrats on the inside, see also obama supporters saying there's no way he can win. he's down so low and it's all over. here's the latest morning consult poll taken on monday -- taken on monday. last week before the tragic assassination attempt, donald trump was up by two points. on monday, it's just a snapshot, and donald trump up by one point. according to a single day survey trump leads by republican voters nationwide, and it's a good

sample size and that's within the margin of error. in a poll conducted over three days last week, trump led by two percentage points. it's a one-point race. again, just a snapshot. here's the deal, everybody. if you are looking at this, don't look at the margins. look at the fact that it's a tie. this race is tied. another snapshot poll, and this one conducted yesterday and also shows the election up for grabs, and in reuters, donald trump leads by two points among registered voters. again, a tie. people say in the battleground states he's losing by 87 points, oh, we must do something, david axil rod says, and oh, no way he can win, said the pod bros. oh, it's all over!

it's probably his weakest state, georgia. and trump is leading by three points in georgia over joe biden. 47-44% among likely voters in the swing state. mike, that's about as close as georgia has been over the past several months. in fact, a cbs poll out this weekend showed again a tie. there was a two-point lead by donald trump over joe biden in georgia, which, again, i saw six, seven, eight points about a month ago. now, let's look for a second what has happened. of course, we talked about the tragic assassination attempt and the tragic killings at his rally in pennsylvania. we have talked about that. we have talked ad nauseam about

joe biden turning in the worst presidential debate ever, and people are saying i have it on good authority he will be down ten points in all the polls coming out, and ended up being down by three, down by three points. we had the lester holt interview. everybody telling me, that's the end, he bumbled like chewbacca, it's done. it's done. we had the press conference. oh, he said president putin instead of president zelenskyy. he said vice president trump. it's over. it's done. people factored all this in, mike. they factored it all in. joe biden, i got bad news for them and for joe biden, joe biden wasn't good at talking in 1987. >> he has a stutter.

>> he was humiliated and driven from the race in probably one of the most hue hue mill eighting. it made staff members go, what's going on with this guy? people know joe biden and factored this in. people know donald trump and factored this in. this could change in a week. we live in a 46-46 country, not a 50-50 country. we live in a 46-46 country, and the democrats have got to fish or cut bait. if they can't drive joe biden from the race, they need to line up behind joe biden because there's no middle ground here.

you are either united -- a house divided against itself can't stand. you are either united or your side loses, and they have to make decisions fast. and all these stories about nancy frantically going around and trying to undermine joe biden. that's not working. i don't even know if that's true. we keep hearing about barack obama and barack obama's people quietly behind the scenes trying to undermine joe biden, and if they are -- >> that's not helpful. >> that's not helpful. and certainly it's not working with the rank and file base after all of these moments. republicans in milwaukee, they know they are going to win. karl rove said joe biden can't win. i understand. he has turned into a terrible debate performance and had terrible interviews and he always has. i want to see the polling that

says that. i want to see the numbers that say that, because all i hear is, oh, there's a secret poll, and oh, i have looked at internals of candidates and he's down by 87. every public poll that has come out has this race tied, mike, even after two of the most historic events in recent american political history. >> yeah, you know, joe, i don't know what to believe in terms of polls now right now given the volatility in this country. the country was truly shaken to its core over the weekend. that's a given. each and every day it seems something happens in everyone's lives that caused them to look at our politics and say, oh, geez, i will stay away from that. with regard to joe biden i was watching him speak in las vegas yesterday and he clearly is going back to an old proven

route for democrats, and he's talking about issues where people live and talking about what's going to happen if there's a change in administration, if the trump/vance administration succeeds him. what will happen to social security, what will have to medicare and medicaid and what will happen to the civil service in the society where people go to work for the government? what will happen to clean air and clean water? what will happen to the agencies that allow people to live more safely because of the rules and regulations? what will happen to billionaires? are they going to be double billionaires or trillionairs? how much is the ordinary

american going to lose under an income in a republican administration? people who live on the margins, people that live paycheck to paycheck, what is going to happen to their lives? are they going to be better off under a republican administration, a proven commitment to rich people in this country -- proven, opposed to a biden administration where it's a combination of truman and lbj stuff. that's the question president biden asked yesterday and he didn't look bad. the nypd's chief of patrol joins us ahead with a look at the new security measures being put in place across the city. "morning joe" will be right back.

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alert this week after the attempted assassination of donald trump. nypd brass has met with secret service stationed at trump tower where an increased number of officers are protecting the former president trump. now joining us, deputy commission of public information and chief shell. good to have you with us. i said in the lead up there there were no specific threats you all are aware of, but when you see something like that take place on saturday, an attempt on the life of one of the most prominent new yorkers, what changes? >> well, when this happened on saturday i could tell you

immediately our leadership team was on the phone. i was on the beach making a call to the police commissioner and everybody involved to see what could we do now to move quickly, and trump towers, how could we put up that footprint to keep areas safe in the city, and we need that immediately. no precautionary threats, but that's what we have to do in the matter. >> we have heard now the threats they think about more than they used to, is the domestic threats and the political violence. how much has that matrix changed in the last few years? you obviously think about isis, but how often do you think of domestic violence? >> the bottom line is that you can have plans, and there will always be vulnerabilities and we

have to continue that our officers stay safe, and dignitary and political visits, how do we incorporate technology into that, and how do we use our drones more effectively. we are always looking for cutting edge technology to keep the events and people safe in new york city. >> the threat measuring the threat level, and what is the threat level today compared to four or five months ago? >> in a city of 8 or 9 million people, we always have some sort of threat level, and we are always at a heightened alert because we are new york city and we always have to be in tune with our intel bureau and federal partners. any minute of the day, something

could happen and we have to move quickly. going back to saturday, we have to move quickly to put up a posture, a footprint to keep the city safe and vulnerable targets, and trump tower here, so it's every day. >> when you saw what happened on saturday in pennsylvania, what were the initial questions that popped to both of your minds when you saw the layout, you saw sort of the overhead view of how close that barn was to the stage. what did you think right away? >> we had the same questions everybody else had. we have to wait for the after action. after all these types of incidents, they will go through a hot wash and figure out who was supposed to be where. you have to remember it's a multi-agency operation and we don't know enough right now to make a determination of what went wrong. we will get all that and we will incorporate that into our plan in new york city. we work very well with the

secret service. a great partner, and great people there, and the new york state police, same thing. we will see how we can make new york city better, but that counter sniper should be man of the year, and great under pressure, and kudos to the secret service counter sniper because that took a lot of courage and a lot of just cool under pressure to do. >> yeah, it was. chief, what did you think when you first saw it? >> well, from a civilian point of view, who had the rooftop? where you're hearing different reports about different things, 86 seconds, 26 minutes, 30 minutes. we have to get the facts before making an assessment. to bring it back to new york city when the former president was in the bronx in the middle of a park, we had numerous interactions with the secret

service. we have a great relationship like tarrik said in going over what's the plan, what's the line of sight? there was a building by the pond, who is covering that. we did it well. how it worked in pennsylvania, i guess that remains to be seen and then if something did happen wrong, what was wrong, let's -- how do we fix it? thank gods the former president didn't get seriously hurt and just become better. no plan is flawless, i will tell you that. coming up, a look at the lineup on this third day of the republican national convention. nbc's garrett haake is live in milwaukee and he brings us a preview straight ahead on "morning joe." head on "morning joe."

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summer the paralympics at age 27 which some say is old for swimming. 27. don't let age get in your way, do you know what i mean?

katie, age is just a number, kid, and i -- and i can't wait to welcome you back to the white house with more medals -- medals from team usa. i really mean that. that was president biden welcoming our next guest to the white house back in may. we will speak with seven-time olympic gold medalist katie ledecky about her new book and the countdown to the summer games in paris when "morning joe" comes right back. mer games in paris when "morning joe" comes right back.

meanwhile, last night at the convention trump made a surprise appearance and it looked like he had a little trouble staying awake. watch this. >> and guidance for our beloved country. please bless our people with wisdom as they vote in the upcoming election and please bless with humility, honesty,

skill and integrity. >> yep, the 2024 election is blinky versus sleepy. welcome to the fourth hour of "morning joe." it's 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. in the east. we're going to get to the very latest from the republican national convention in just a moment, but we begin this hour with the investigation into the assassination attempt of former president donald trump. questions are mounting about the role of the u.s. secret service and how they let a gunman get within striking distance of the former president and the republican presidential nominee. nbc news correspondent stephanie gosk has the latest. >> reporter: in the weeks leading up to donald trump's rally in pennsylvania we're now learning there was already increased security around the former president, after u.s. officials obtained intelligence that there may be an iranian

plot to assassinate him. the national security council emphasizes there's no connection between the alleged iranian threat and saturday's shooting by gunman thomas crooks. >> he's on the roof. right there. flat on the roof. >> reporter: from the republican convention eric trump vented his frustration over the security operation at his father's rally. >> there was a breakdown and they better get to the bottom of it. >> reporter: according to multiple officials who have spoken with nbc news, there were warnings about crooks before he opened fire. butler township manager tom knights said one of his police officers locked eyes with the gunman on the rooftop. >> he was able to pull his head up over the roof, he did, in fact, see an individual on the roof with a weapon. >> reporter: knights said that officer was responding to a report of a suspicious person and that other police officers helped boost him up to take a look. >> and what did the shooter do? >> turned towards him, had the

barrel of his weapon pointed at the officer. >> and at that point the officer is hanging on? >> yes. >> to the side of the roof? >> yes. >> unable to pull a gun out. >> unable -- >> unable to defend himself, unable to reach his radio. >> any of that, yeah. yeah. strictly defensive movement for him to lower his head, duck. >> reporter: knights says butler township police department was not the local agency responsible for securing the rooftop. the secret service says the building was outside their security perimeter and was primarily the responsibility of local law enforcement. secret service director kimberly cheatle telling abc news the agency decided to secure the building from the inside for safety concerns because of its sloped roof at its highest point. >> nbc's stephanie gosk with that report. and we just learned the department of homeland security's inspector general says it has opened up an investigation into the secret service's handling of security

during former president donald trump's saturday rally. joining us now with new reporting on this is national investigative reporter at the "washington post" carol loennig. >> thank you for being with us. we've talked about some secret service problems in the past. >> she's written a book on it. >> you've obviously written a book about the secret service. i'd love for you to help provide context to exactly what happened on saturday. first of all, the clear shot to the president of the united states, former president of the united states, possible future of the united states, again, for people looking at the overhead shot it just -- it's dumb founding. and i will say -- let me show you this video from the "wall street journal," put up on their instagram. one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten -- >> okay. take it down now. >> nine seconds. so nine seconds, ten seconds

they leave -- they leave the president open for a second, third, fourth shooter. they have no -- somebody said, oh, they said shooter is down. well, the assumption always is that there may be more than one. >> totally. >> and i'm just surprised -- >> totally, joe. >> we heard the story about dick cheney being lifted up out of the white house and shoved down stairs. we've heard the story about george w. bush yelling about getting back to washington, the secret service saying this ain't your plane, it's our plane, we will tell you when you can go back. there are a lot of republicans, independents and democrats wondering why didn't they do what secret service people always do, put the protectee's head down, cover him up and shove him into a car? >> well, joe, and mika, you both zeroed in on the two most important things, but let's put them in order. the first one is that building and that line of sight. for more than 50 years the

secret service agents who plan the advance for any public event lose sleep for days before that event thinking about where can there be a spot on high ground where somebody could get a clear shot at the president? or whomever i'm protecting, as the secret service, and that may be, in this case, the former president donald trump. that's what they think about. i was interviewing a s.w.a.t. team commander yesterday who was not directly involved in this event, but has been involved in other pennsylvania events in that region, and he said, ma'am, 140 yards from the stage, your grandmother could shoot donald trump from there. it's just sort of stunning that no -- nobody was on the roof and that the director of the secret service is saying nobody was on the roof and posted around it because it was sloped and, therefore, more dangerous. i don't know if that's right or wrong, that it's too dangerous to do that, i'm not an agent, but i've heard from about two

dozen agents in the wake of this who said that's preposterous. we should have locked down this building one way or another and it's not the locals' responsibility to make the plan for how to secure it. the second thing is you mentioned donald trump first pumping. that's another thing agents currenter and former are pretty upset about. upset because there could be another guy on the horizon after the countersniper amazingly with one shot takes out matthew crooks as soon as his weapon is raised. it's amazing that that guy is basically neutralized almost instantly, not fast enough, but almost instantly upon being determined to be a threat. but there could have been another person. but in donald trump's security bubble, he -- you can hear him on the video saying that he wants to get his shoes, you know, he's like saying, wait a minute, wait a minute, let me get my shoes, let me do this. those agents are putting their biceps and their shoulders in front of his face trying to cover him, but they're also

deferring to him and that is so different, joe, than what you describe about that moment with dick cheney, right? his agent lifted him by the belt loop and said we're gone, sir. sorry, no more time to talk. >> so, carol, i'm reading your new piece titled "police snipers were inside the building as trump rally shooter fired from the roof" and you get at something very important is you've established now that local police were in charge of that building, a lot of people second guessing that, as you say, as well, but that they actually noticed a man -- i'm just reading from your piece now -- local police spotted a man acting furtively from inside that building, he was walking back and forth with some gear and they radioed a secret service command post to alert them, officials said. so at that point he's still outside, the police see him, presumably it took him some time to get up on to the roof with that gear. how do you explain the lapse between the time when local police according to your reporting did spot this guy and

the time the shooting took place? >> so there are a couple of things there which are really important to notice, willie, which are, one, remember the secret service makes the plan and we have heard a lot of different reports, some of which we're trying to sort of nail down right now, but one of the things i heard last night from people who were on the ground was that the -- that the individual local police officers stationed inside that building -- by the way, they were countersnipers -- they complained, look, we're countersnipers, we are not a lot of use if we're not on high ground looking over the whole place. it's hard to be a countersniper inside a building. but they were stationed there and there was a concern that they couldn't essentially leave their post, hence their communication, we have a suspicious guy, just want you to know. i have confirmed that the secret service command post was listening to radiofrequency about local police engaging with a suspicious individual who

turned out to be crooks, and the countersniper, whose name we are not sharing at this moment, the countersniper actually had crooks in his sights during this moment, was trying to assess is he a threat? does he have a gun? with the slope of the roof off in the distance, they couldn't -- the sniper was still trying to discern is this just a person? is this an hvac repairman? you know, what is going on? trying to figure out is this person an actual threat to the stage and to the former president. and when the gun was lifted and shot. that's when the countersniper took him out. but the radiofrequency at the time for the command post was alerting the countersniper teams to this suspicious activity at the agr building, again, that very obvious risk 140 yards from donald trump's stage. >> and, carol, let's just make a

bad situation even worse for the secret service. they knew -- we found out yesterday -- they were made aware of an iranian plot to assassinate donald trump. so they were on notice that other than, you know, domestic threats, that you had the iranian government planning to assassinate donald trump. and even with that knowledge, their performance on saturday just all the more shocking. >> you know, i would like to say you're absolutely right about how shocking it is, but i -- you know, i know enough agents and i know enough about the secret service to know they work their tails off. they try their absolute hardest. one thing that i'm looking at

and examining is the advanced security plan potentially having some major vulnerabilities and flaws, mostly involving in outside building that wasn't very outside, wasn't very far away. remember, my grandma could have killed trump from there. but these guys and women work like crazy during a campaign season. are they getting the support and the resources they need? you know, i was told that the countersniper units are down below 20 individuals right now because of attrition and retirement. i was told the counterassault teams -- remember, there were only two secret service counterassault agents, those are the black tactical gear guys who jumped up on the stage, had he ever i will armed to cover trump so that the detail could whisk him away, only two of them there. i'm told the counterassault team is down below 35. that means there's only really three, maybe full counterassault

teams in the secret service right now if these sources are right, and i emphasize if these sources are right, and that means the service is once again stretched too thin, which is exactly the finding of both house oversight committee run by elijah couple minutes and jason chaffetz in 2015 and the findings of a blue ribbon panel appointed by president obama. that the agency just didn't -- was operating on duct tape and staples, especially during a campaign season. that running from pillar to post is what these guys and women are trying to do and they just don't have enough backing to get this job done. there's one other element which is they really relied heavily on local police here for some of their tactical purposes and those officers who were countersnipers from the local area inside that agr building, how useful is it for them to be inside the building? they're in there because the

secret service instructed them to be there. they wanted to rely, it seems to me, on their own team, but if you don't have enough teams, that's a worry. >> national investigative reporter at the "washington post" carol loennig, thank you very much. we appreciate your reporting and analysis this morning. so the republican national convention continues today in milwaukee. last night donald trump's final two primary challengers gave their full endorsements and tonight trump's newly picked running mate, senator j.d. vance of ohio, will be the headline speaker. joining us from milwaukee nbc news senior capitol hill correspondent garrett haake. garrett, what is senator vance hoping to accomplish with his keynote address tonight? >> reporter: mika, senator vance is so new to national politics he has never attended a national party convention before, much less been asked to give the keynote speech like he will be doing tonight.

my sources say he's going to lean heavily on his own personal biography here, try to link it to the experience of trump voters out in the country, and also try to introduce him to his own particular bland -- blend of populist conservatism. watch. donald trump's running mate j.d. vance so far seen but not heard at the republican convention, set to take center stage tonight. a largely unknown figure nationwide, vance is already a celebrity in the make america great again movement where he's now seen as mr. trump's political heir apparent. >> what does the selection of dwrans as donald trump's running mate mean for this party? >> it means that maga has now an enduring battle plan. j.d. vance is young, he is brilliant. >> reporter: two his supporters vance's selection helps cement the trump wing as the future of the gop where the freshman snafrt has been one of the loudest voices on capitol hill opposing additional fund u.

funding for ukraine. >> we don't want to micromanage a foreign conflict thousands of miles away. >> reporter: vance's populism includes support for a higher minimum wage and backing mr. trump's aggressive trade policies, including higher tariffs on imported goods. vance has long been an outspoken opponent of abortion, an issue mr. trump avoided highlighting. the biden campaign seizing on vance's past comments including this in 2021 about exceptions for rape or insist. >> look, i think two wrongs don't make a right. >> reporter: vance has said he would support some reasonable exceptions. vance has also embraced some of mr. trump's controversial proposal, including mass deportation of undocumented immigrants. >> we have to deport people. we have to deport people who broke our laws and came in here. >> reporter: oaking the former president's false suggestions of widespread fraud in the last election. >> if i had been vice president i would have told the states like pennsylvania, georgia and so many others that we needed to have multiple slates of electors

and i think the u.s. congress should have fought over it from there. >> reporter: and the key plank of project 2025 a conservative think tank's plan for a second trump administration, to overhaul the federal government by replacing civil servants with trump political appointees, potentially firing thousands of government workers. >> if those people aren't following the rules then of course you've got to fire them. >> reporter: mr. trump has dis ansed himself from project 2025 and vance has said only donald trump will determine the next administration's agenda. vance's turn to shape the party his backers say will come later. >> this is about winning elections down the line in '28 and beyond. >> reporter: other speakers tonight in addition to vance include donald trump jr. kimberly guilfoyle and peter navarro just released from prison this morning. i think we're going to hear a lot more red meat on the stage behind me tonight than perhaps what folks at home saw last night. >> without a doubt. garrett haake at the site of the

rnc in milwaukee. thanks so much. joining us now mark leibovich and contributor at the conservative website the bulwark tim miller. good morning to you both. tim, i will start with you. what did you make of what you saw last night? we've been talking a lot about nikki haley and ron desantis who had obviously extraordinarily harsh things to say during the campaign, deeply personal things they had to say about him and now at the rally which is not unusual for people vanquished in a primary to get behind the candidate. this did feel different and there was a sense of donald trump sitting there in his box and watching people, you know, come to heel before him politically. >> it's a little unusual because the personal attacks were like racist and the nikki haley case and in ron desantis' case very personal, his manhood and these sorts of things. and then having trump sit in the box, i think it's noteworthy also who was in the box with him? it's j.d. vance, how now the vp pick, night one tucker was in there. you saw, you know, some of the most extreme members of the

florida delegation in mr., matt gaetz, corey mills. >> marjorie taylor greene. >> right. so it shows you that like the power center is the maga, right, and the more traditional old school republicans like nikki haley are on stage kind of saying that we're making -- we're coming to terms with it. so i think that's notable politically. i think it's also notable politically garrett said maybe we will see more red meat tonight. maybe we will. personally speaking i was pretty nervous following the assassination attempt, you have this huge gathering on monday and tuesday that there would be a lot of vengeance, a lot of red meat, a lot of blood lust and there hasn't been in the first two nights, there also hasn't been a clear message and i think that shows the fact that the rnc had a planned message then this happened and they had to kind of change the speeches a little bit. it's been a little disjointed in a way that is on the one hand i think hurts their message, on the other hand is good, though, because you didn't want this gathering to turn into something that could have escalated the

rhetoric. >> mark, you're there in milwaukee, obviously the message we heard this on sunday morning after the attempted assassination of donald trump is unity, unity within the party, not necessarily nationally perhaps given some of the rhetoric we've seen since then, but what is the feeling there among republicans about how this is going so far? >> well, certainly confident. i mean, that is an overwhelming feeling here. look, i mean, a lot of people, including me, i mean, we were here in 2016, that was not a unified convention. there was no convention really in 2020, but, i mean, any splintering, any sort of sign of resistance to donald trump that we've seen kind of crystallize over the years is absolutely gone. i mean, to your point about the speeches from the runners up, the nikki haleys, the ron desantiss, i was looking in trump's box, too, and he kind of was looking on almost like one of those like kind of stern gymnastics judges, kind of nodding to see -- like approving at certain points. reminded me of how he was

sitting during that infamous cabinet meeting in 20 -- i guess it was 2017 when they just kind of went around the table and people took turns praising how great the president was. i will say, though, that the meat got a little redder last night, especially around immigration rhetoric and i agree with tim, i mean, i kind of expected more of kind of an edgier tone. so far. we might get that tonight. >> and, you know, jonathan lemire, i know you have a question for mark. i'm just curious if you're hearing what i've been hearing from everybody i talked to in milwaukee which is not a lot of red meat up on stage, more so last night, but even among the attendees that are walking around, there is a feeling of supreme confidence and also this person said just a surprising lack of anger, there is not -- nobody is talking about retribution. they all -- they all are in a very positive place right now.

they believe donald trump was saved by the hand of god. they believe that he is the candidate of god and they believe they are destined to win this november. >> yeah, people i talked to who are there echo that, echo what mark said. it's not just confidence, it's overwhelming confidence. there is almost a certainty that they are going to win. certainly sense president biden's faltering debate performance a few weeks ago and then the events of the last couple weeks, the gift of supreme court gave donald trump, then the classified documents case in florida goes away, and of course most of all that he had a brush with death over the weekend and survived. so they feel really, really good. also the platform got watered down a little bit, trying to make it more palatable to the moderates or undecideds who may be deciding between these two candidates. mark, preview for us what we expect to hear from j.d. vance tonight. this is his -- you know, sort of introduction to the nation in most ways. people know him -- some of them -- people know him as the

author of "hillbilly elegy" but don't know much about him as a politician. tell us about why you're hearing trump picked him, how he's being received in milwaukee and what we might hear tonight. >> i do think one of the reasons trump picked him is he just sort of likes the look and feel of him. he does on some ways operate on a very superficial kind of showman's vibe around him. i think vance tonight will be very heavily biographical. he's got to introduce himself. most people still don't know him. he can obviously do that. he wrote this memoire and he's got -- he is a writer, his bio ads when he was running for senate were tremendous, i mean, it was a really good -- he's a very good storyteller so i think he will lean heavily on that. i'm interested to see if they kind of airbrush all of his -- certainly his abortion views on this, and even his election denial views on this. we haven't heard that much or barely at all from that, but if he's actually saying he wouldn't have certified the january 6th election, is that going to be a

theme at all? we know obviously that trump loves this issue, he will talk about it whenever possible. i'm pretty sure that the people who are putting the speeches together don't think that that's an issue that they need to be emphasizing right now. but i suspect he will do a good speech and i think he will be received very warmly because there is, again, the vibe is to unity and that hasn't really stopped. >> so this morning vice president kamala harris is out with a new video addressing senator vance's selection as trump's running mate. >> hey, everyone. so donald trump has picked his new running mate, j.d. vance. trump looked for someone he knew would be a rubber stamp for his extreme agenda and make no mistake j.d. vance will be loyal only to trump, not to our country. and unlike mike pence, vance said he would have carried out trump's plan to overturn the 2020 election. he supports a national abortion ban and voted against protecting ivf. and if elected, he will help

implement the extreme project 2025 plan for a second trump term, which would target critical programs like head start and medicare. but we are not going to let that happen. >> biden campaign was expecting j.d. vance to be the pick and he was, so obviously ready there. we should point out that vice president harris and senator vance had a cordial phone call described by both that way yesterday and j.d. vance said he appreciated the call from vice president harris. so there is confidence in milwaukee, tim, there is no question about it. they're coming in there with a swagger, especially after the former president survived an attempted assassination. they believe it's ordained at this point. should they be as confident as they are when you look at it on the other side of it which is that joe biden has had a rough three weeks? >> yeah. >> debate was three weeks ago last night, kind of shined a big light on a question that people have had about him for a long time and that is his ability to perform under pressure, to

perform in the most important job in the world, especially over the next four years. how are you looking at this race as we sit here in the middle of the rnc? >> on the confidence point before biden, after the biden debate last week i was actually in joe's old congressional district, down by pensacola at a matt gaetz event where he had kyle rittenhouse there which is gross on some levels, but i couldn't find anybody there who was concerned at all. they were brimming with confidence then. there was religious elements to that is correct multiple people tell me that we're having an awakening in the country again, and that was before the failed assassination attempt. so like, you know, it's off the charts levels of confidence. i think they have good reason to. you know, i heard what was happening, the discussion the last hour of the polls, but if you look at the numbers, there really is a joe biden problem in the numbers, not a democratic party problem. if you look at virginia there is a poll that had biden tied internally down three publicly with tim kaine winning. if you look at pennsylvania,

biden is down in almost every poll, bob casey is up in almost every poll. wisconsin same story, tammy baldwin is up, arizona, nevada, the story is the same in every state. it's not as if the people in the polls are telling us there's a democratic problem or some bias against democrats, it's that there is some percentage of voters that are saying they don't have confidence in biden in particular and so the question is can he turn that around? haven't seen a lot of it since the debate. >> all right. contributor to the bulwark, tim miller, and staff writer at the atlantic mark leibovich. thank you both very much for your analysis and insight this morning. coming up on "morning joe" we're going to dig into the new reporting on the network of tech billionaires who helped j.d. vance rise to power in the republican party. plus, elon musk is planning major moves for two of his companies. cnbc's andrew ross sorkin joins us with insight on call all of that next on "morning joe." us with insight on call all of

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beautiful live picture from the top of your building at rockefeller center in midtown, manhattan. 9:31 in the morning on the east coast. let's bring in the co-anchor of "squawk box" andrew ross sorkin. a big day on the market yesterday. but let's talk about this push in silicon valley led by none other than elon musk of now public support for donald trump. how has that coalesced and what got them there? >> look, i think, you know, elon musk has been a very powerful voice, like it or not, not just in the valley, but around the country, and has really shifted the calculus in terms of politics. silicon valley was a long-time hot bed, if you will, and criticized for being a hot bed of liberal democrats. elon musk being one of those people.

we've talked about it on the podcast many times, but very early on in president biden's administration he decided to invite all of the big ev makers, electronic vehicle makers, to the white house and yet decided not to invite elon musk to the white house and to effectively put on a pet stool some of the other folks in large part because they were union shops and tesla was not. that led to a remarkable shift and you could call it petty, you could call you what you will, but in terms of how i think elon musk thought about -- thought about the white house and then, of course, has been very vocal given his ownership of x about his politics and a complete political move towards republicans and specifically trump in this case. he's been playing what seems to be an increasingly larger role behind the scenes in all of this. and then just yesterday i should tell you that mark andreessen who developed net scape, the

first web browser along with his partner put out a video saying that they were planning to support trump, also suggest that go they didn't believe that biden was progressive enough, if you will, as it comes -- as it relates to regulating cryptocurrencies, but also taking a shot at biden's plan around taxing what's called unrealized gains. so one of the things that biden has in his tax proposal would be to tax at a minimum of a 25% rate gains that are made effectively in the stock market or in other places if they are not -- even if they are not realized, meaning you haven't sold your shares. that would have a big impact oddly enough specifically in silicon valley where startups and others are trying to build businesses. if you can't sell the shares and you still have to pay taxes on them, that is a very big issue. so you've really seen a sort of complete sea change in just how silicon valley is thinking about politics and clearly it seems to

be making some waves today. >> andreessen and horowitz for people who don't know is arguably the most powerful venture capital firm out there. >> yes. >> one of the most powerful in the world and two very smart guys who have made the calculation that donald trump is better for business for them anyway than biden. >> interestingly you should know that ben horowitz on the podcast was apologizing multiple times to his mother. >> i saw that. >> he said my mother is going to kill me. right at the top and right at the end, he said my mother is going to kill me for saying this, but we're taking these positions, they were arguing on the business cases. i should also say elon musk's view of this is not just business, he also has some sort of social issues, i don't know if you saw this morning, x and tesla he's moving to texas from california in large part over this gender identity bill that just passed in california. >> yeah, there is also a stream of sort of what they would call anti-wokism among those goes out in silicon valley that's pushing them toward donald trump. let's talk about donald trump saying he would allow jerome powell to serve out his

term as fed chair. what more should we know there? >> well, there's two ways to see that, one way is to say that there is stability in the system, if you will, through some time to 2026, given that jerome powell will be there in that role. the other thing, though, to read underneath the language was this idea that trump was saying he'll keep him in that role if he thinks he's doing a good job and not acting against him and that he thinks he has the option to fire him. i mean, that was the implication. it is not clear that he has the option to fire him given the idea around the independence of the fed. so that i think might make some people a little bit nervous this morning, but at the same time he is saying that he does plan to keep him there at least for now. >> yeah, he said in an interview he will allow jerome powell to serve out that term which runs, as you said, through may of 2026. cnbc's andrew ross sorkin. andrew, thanks so much as always. we appreciate it. still ahead, we are just over a week out now from the

summer olympics in paris where seven-time gold medalist, the legend, katie ledecky hoping to make history again in the pool. katie joins us just ahead on "morning joe." ust ahead on "morning joe." protect against rsv with arexvy. arexvy is a vaccine used to prevent lower

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that's a live picture of the eiffel tower in paris at 3:40 in the afternoon, we are just nine days away now from the opening ceremony of the paris summer olympic games and the mayor of paris went for a swim yesterday in the seine, fulfilling a promise to show the river s in fact, clean enough to host swimming competition during the summer games. nbc news international correspondent meagan fitzgerald has more from paris. >> reporter: this morning kicking off with a splash in paris. mayor hidalgo showing the world the river seine the centerpiece

of the olympic games is safe. the mayor taking the plunge joined by the president of the paris 2024 games and other enthusiasts. >> it's very cool, very -- very nice and it's amazing, it's amazing, a dream. >> reporter: it's an olympic games that could turn back time. the seine once a watering hole for appreciations has been banned to the publish for over a century, exceptions made for some organized events including the triathlon test. making it safe again has been a mission nine years in the making with a price tag of more than a billion dollars. with a massive cleanup effort and huge undergroundwater basin that catches rain water to reduce pollution, paris officials say their efforts have been working. france's sports minister saying we've been dreaming of this, waiting for this. and some americans testing it out for themselves. >> so i've come back here to

take a swim in the seine before the olympics. i'm very impressed with everything the french have done. >> reporter: although the quality of the seine has occasionally been unswimmable after heavy rains, so the pressure is on with two olympics events, the marathon and the swimming leg of the triathlon expected to take place in the river, along with an epic opening ceremony with athletes parading in boats down the seine, the first time it's taken place outside of a stadium. an impressive endeavor that could make this year's games one for the ages. >> the proposal, the plan for that opening ceremony, it is stunning. wait until you see it in nine days. nbc's meagan fitzgerald reports from paris. while our next guest will not have to swim in the seine she will be swimming in the summer games. chasing olympic history, katie ledecky. three medals away from becoming the most decorated american female athlete in american history. lid key who won her first medal

in 2012 in lond an at 15 years old have add the title of new york best telling aught err. her memoire "just add water: my swimming life." that is the book and the seven-time olympic gold medalist joins us now. so great to see you. i was speak being that first gold medal, i was there in paris in 2012 -- excuse me, in london in 2012, you were 15 years old, thinking about the world suddenly knowing your name, everybody having these incredible expectations for your career, and you having somehow lived up to all of that. when you think back to those first games and winning that first gold, what do you think of that 15-year-old girl? >> well, it feels like yesterday to me in many ways and i wrote about it in my book, some of the memories that i have from that race, flipping at the 600 mark, knowing that i only had 200 meters left to win olympic gold and get my hand to the wall first. so that was a very memorable

start to my international career and i'm really happy that 12 years later i'm still competing at this level and getting to represent team usa at the highest stage. >> and yet now here you are moving over to paris 12 years later, this is your fourth olympic games. how are you feeling now as sort of the veteran of the american olympic swimming team and the competition you will be facing this time around in paris? >> i'm feeling good. we've had a great couple of weeks of training camp together as a team, the swimming team. we're in croatia right now and headed to paris in a few days. so we're gearing up and i'm happy to help some of the younger swimmers, the rookies on the team, get a feel for what the olympics is like, give a little bit of advice, but they seem really confident and they seem really ready and to just be on this team is so hard just to make it through the olympic trials so they're well-prepared and i'm excited to see what we can do as a team.

>> katie, of course, good luck, we will all be rooting for you but as you detail in your book, i mean, swimming is so hard, it's often solitary, it is physically and mentally demanding and yet now this is 12 odd years just of olympic competition, obviously you swam long before that. how do you keep yourself so motivated to keep doing this? >> well, my answer to that question is the book. i detail what i love about the sport and really all the people in my life that have contributed to my life in the sport and my life out of the sport. really just that balance that i've been able to have in my life that has allowed me to continue to compete at this level and enjoy the grind, enjoy the training every day. i have the best teammates, the best coaches, best family. that's my mom, mary jen, who swam growing up and she was the one that got me into the pool along with my brother. my brother michael, he was the

one i followed into the pool and on to the team and they've been part of my journey ever since day one. >> so, katie, in the book you explain the mental edge that you have as a distance swimmer and you write in part this, it comes down to how you're made. i've known i had an engine since i swam my first mile, when i was probably 11. i remember swim that go distance for the first time and walking away from it like, that wasn't so bad. mentally, i've learned that i'm wired as anaerobic swimmer. i embrace routine. i lean into the regularity. the endless laps become a kind of meditation. it's a bit like walking through those spiraling zen gardens, a way to calm the noise of the world and let the consistency and predictability of swimming back and forth wash over you. i don't have as many fast twitches as the sprinters and i don't have the technique to be a 50 meter freestyler, but

psychologically i'm built to endure. i love that and i love how you look at your work as sort of a mindfulness routine instead of work. i'm curious, is that also where you get your confidence? and what about days, if you have any, when you're not feeling that confident, how do you cope with that? >> yeah, it really is something that i see as something that's taught me so much, the sport has taught me so much about determination, resilience, how to get that confidence and really for me i get that confidence from my training, from pushing myself every day, from having my teammates and coaches push myself -- push me, and really just that drive comes from within and really i'm proud that i've never hit the snooze button once in my life. >> wow. wow. >> no.

>> my mom made me good snacks for morning practice that got me out of bed, but i always loved those car rides to the pool with my family and my parents, they were -- they were our chauffeurs growing up to and from the pool every day and i owe a lot to them and, again, all the people around me. >> it truly does take a whole family. >> nice. >> let me say you truly are built differently if you have never hit the snooze button, katie. extraordinary. >> i know. we will hit it for you. >> one of the things people lover about you is your humility so this might be a hard question for you to answer, but we watch you swim and we watch how much you win by and we go, now she's doing that against the other greatest swimmers on the face of the earth. there's no one better that you could be competing against. so to what do you attribute that? why are you heads and shoulders above the rest of the world? is it a physical thing? is it a mental thing? what is it as you think about

it? >> i think it's a combination of a lot of factors. i think first off there is a lot of great competition out there. i'm going to be facing some really tough competitors these next few weeks so i'm excited for that, but really i think the goal setting that i've been able to do my entire swimming career has allowed me to break these records and continue at this level and i kind of had a knack for goal setting from the start. i would -- and i would write them down even for my 8 and under races when i was first starting to swim. so i've continued to do that, continued to set bigger and bigger goals for myself and that's what motivates me, continuing to believe that i can achieve these goals that i set my mind to. >> it is so much fun for the rest of us to watch. the new book is titled "just add water." it's on sale now, "new york times" best selling author and

seven-time olympic gold med lis who has never hit the snooze button, katie ledecky. good luck in paris. we will see you over there. >> thank you, go usa. >> the opening ceremony for the paris olympic games is next friday, july 26th. coverage begins at 7:30 p.m. eastern on nbc and streaming on peacock. coming up next, nbc's jacob soboroff takes us to the county in wisconsin that could signal the outcome of the presidential election. he'll explain next on "morning joe." joe.

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[ put a little love in your heart

by david ruffin begins to play ] my bad, my bad. good race. - you too. you were tough out there. thank you. i'm getting you next time though. oh i got you, i got you. down goes jewett. jewett and amos are down. what a lovely sign of sportsmanship. you okay? yeah. ♪ ♪ with welcome back. with most 2024 polling still showing a dead heat between president biden and donald trump, one county in wisconsin might serve as a bellwether for what will happen after it went for the winning candidate in each of the past six presidential elections. nbc news national correspondent jacob soboroff reports.

>> welcome to door county, wisconsin. around here people call it the cape cod of the midwest. it's not hard to see why. over the course of the last six presidential elections voters here have accurately picked the president every single time, and that means three republicans and three democrats. >> my grandparents came over from norway, and then he sailed on tugs. >> reporter: tom and sue own melody charity orchard. >> two native wisconsinites, two door county members, with cherry pickers. >> how does it change over the generations you guys have been involved in cherry picking? >> it's always like a wave, some years you'll make great money and then it goes town. >> what do you guys think people need to know about what life is like, what really matters out here? >> what really matters is that people need to work, you know, they just need to work. >> what work means on a cherry farm is much different than when tom and sue's family started in

the business. >> this is what shakes it. >> first time on a cherry tree shaker. let's go. ready tom? >> yep, you come on up. >> the shaker does the work of what used to be hundreds of migrant farm workers. it's a pretty good place to talk about politics too. >> it seems like people here in door county are reliably in the middle. it's a pretty purple place. >> i've never said i'm a democrat or a republican. i don't do that. >> what is it going to be that helps you decide? >> a coin. >> say that again, really is it like that? are you going to wait until the last minute or when are you going to make up your mind? >> when this is done. >> when cherry season's over. >> it's not on my mind right now. >> the choice in november is very much on the mind of amelda. >> at 15 years old you were picking cherries and apples on the farms here in door county. >> in door county, yes. >> she was born in texas. since returning here she spends her days helping immigrants.

>> there's so much population that we got in from last year from nicaragua, el salvador and honduras and guatemala. >> immigrants are a danger to the community. what is it like for you to hear that, knowing the people you've helped over so many years? >> it hurts me when these people are working out there, hardly rest one day to see their families. they're not taking jobs away. >> have you figured out how you're going to vote this time around? >> i haven't made up my mind. >> this year she's uncertain. >> do you feel like politicians understand the way of life out here? >> no, they don't. no, they don't. they haven't lived in these people's shoes. i've been through that already. >> you lived that life? >> yes. >> and now you're trying to help people. >> yes. >> who are living that life? >> yes. >> themselves. mm-hmm. >> nbc's jacob soboroff with that report, and that does it for us this morning. we'll see you tomorrow at 6:00

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