good evening from new york, i am alex wagner here with my friend and colleague, chris hayes. thank you for joining us for our continuing special coverage of night three of the republican national convention in milwaukee. we are expecting to her remarks from north dakota governor doug burgum who along with marco rubio was one of the top three contenders to be donald trump's running mate. trump ultimately chose ohio senator j.d. vance who is scheduled to speak later this evening. the ex-president himself toward the space this afternoon ahead of his headlining speech that happens tomorrow night where he will officially accept the republican party nomination.

we expect trump to appear later tonight as well. meanwhile the future of the democratic nomination is again under scrutiny after we learned president biden has tested positive for covid. even before the latest health scare, two thirds of democratic voters wanted president biden to drop out of the race according to a new poll released this morning and according to a new report from abc news, that has not yet be confirmed by nbc news, we should say, told president biden to drop out in a meeting over the weekend. in a statement to nbc news schumer's office called to report idle speculation, but the office did not deny the conversation took place. saying that aiken viewed his views to the caucus directly on saturday. we have reached out for a statement of our own, but we have not heard back. much like a duck in water it is clear that behind-the-scenes the democratic firmament is

moving quickly, working away. this feels different. we've talked about the pendulum swinging back and forth between a movement to get biden off the top of the ticket and a movement to very much keep them there. i feel like we have entered a new phase of this if indeed leader jeffries and the majority leader in the senate are explicitly having conversations with biden. >> it is the definition of woe if true. i will say that schumer's office has every ability to say this is categorically untrue and what the senator said as he supports the nominee who will beat donald trump in the fall. he could absolutely have said that. he did not say that, which i think suggests that there is more than a little to this report. not only that, they are making calculations about what they are communicating publicly. this is very serious. it is very real.

we have crossed into a new part of this story. for better or ill, no one knows yet. >> i will say it is coming against the backdrop of the rules committee indicating it will not fast-track a nomination and instead will take the month of august to decide who the nominee is going to be. ryan nobles has been doing great reporting on this. he will join us by phone. nbc news congressional correspondent ryan nobles. what is the latest you have on this abc reporting about schumer and jeffries? >> reporter: you know we have been reporting on this for the past couple of days, wanting to give an inside look at this meeting between chuck schumer and joe biden that took place on saturday. it was very much a surprise meeting between the two men. neither side had forecasted that it was coming. schumer traveled all the way to rehobeth, delaware to have this in person meeting with the president. i'm told that the two of them met one-on-one. that there was no other staff in the room, it was just

schumer and biden having a direct conversation about the state of the race and i'm told that schumer presented the president with polling data that reflected the current state of the race and a conversation about the current state of the polling and the impact that it would have on the party going forward. now my sources would not characterize specifically what the polling data looked like. that the majority leader presented to the president. but there is plenty of public polling data that reflects president biden is trailing president trump in the race for the white house and that former president trump is leading in key battleground states. a lot of that is within the margin of error and that is something the white house often points to having these conversations, but there is no doubt if you are having a blunt conversation of someone about the state of the race that you are not talking to them about how lovely and positive the future is. what i tried to nail down for four days is this very direct question about whether or not

the majority leader looked the president in the eye and told him he should consider dropping out of the race. a resource that i have talked to, and these are sources on the record. these are sources close to the majority leader and our white house team has also done this through the campaign and the white house as well. when you ask anyone connected to these men and who has any insight into this meeting, they refuse to answer that question. they will not tell us one way or another whether or not that was made and what they point back to is that this was a one- on-one meeting. there were only two men and then they use that to not entertain the question about whether or not that direct ask was made. if you read into the statement that the schumer team put out on the record today, they say in this statement that leaders

schumer conveyed the views of his caucus directly to biden. i can help fill in the blanks as to what the views of the caucus are, because we have seen countless democratic senators say publicly and privately that they are very concerned about the state of the race and they are very concerned about president biden being at the top of the ticket. like michael bennet who said on the record in interviews that he believes the democrats will lose the race, donald trump will win the race of president biden is at the top of the ticket. peter welch from vermont specifically said he wants president biden to step down. senator patty murray of washington, the senate pro tem, third in line to the presidency. the third ranking member of the senate put out a tough statement saying that she is concerned about president biden being the leader of the ticket. so there isn't a lot to read

into the view of the caucus. the view is that they are very worried about the state of this race and so i think that that is very telling in this statement that schumer's office is providing to us tonight, so i am going to be very honest with you and tell you i do not know specifically if president biden was told by leaders schumer that he should step down. i do not have that specific reporting, but there is a lot we can read into about this conversation. the fact that leaders schumer thought it was important to travel down there. that he was talking to him about polling data which everyone knows is bleak for democrats right now and saying that he conveyed the views of his caucus. we know what the state is right now so there is every indication that this was a conversation where leaders schumer was trying to at least help president biden understand the reality of the race as it currently stands. >> ryan nobles with nbc news, thank you for that. we understand this is a kinetic situation.

chris, i think the timing on this is interesting. this meeting apparently happened on saturday if we believe the reports. against that backdrop it is interesting to think about the interview that president biden did with lester holt where he is remarkably defiant. he says i'm listening to myself effectively in this situation. he doesn't want to talk about leaving the ticket. it is interesting to think about his remarks to the naacp where he is very fired up. the audience is very fired up. after a conversation like that with the leaders in congress, that appears to have not had any affect on biden, if indeed that is the timeline. >> at least not in his public statements. one thing that i think is important to stress about this is just how rare this kind of meeting is. just for folks who are watching this, it does not happen that often that there are one-on-one meetings of any kind. they just don't happen.

the principles meet with staff and have an agenda and the staff is present and even when they are friendly, going down whatever was said, making the pilgrimage to the president of the united states, you know, domicile at the moment, to have a one-on-one conversation as the senate majority leader. people have been comparing to the very famous moment in which barry goldwater and others went to the white house to tell richard nixon he had to resign. this is very different because as i said many times with respect to biden's age or whatever political challenge he faces, he has not done any wrong. there is no scandal here, but the reason people point to that analogy as this was people inside the party saying that this has to happen. this is not quite that, but this is as close to something like that as we have seen throughout this entire story.

>> to that end, the new york times reported earlier this week that biden's kind of inner circle had close drinks and he was not hearing from outside. a very select group of advisors and his family. it is clear that some people are getting through that firewall as well. >> also those precise, same concerns, because you don't go to rehoboth beach to meet with the president of the united states holding with you polling data if you are confident that he is getting a realistic picture of the state of the race. one more thing i would say and this i think complicates the picture a little bit. ryan nobles said the polling looks bleak for democrats and they think that word is true. just to put everything in, you know, sort of context here, we are still talking about a race -- >> within the margin of error. >> it is three points. now joe biden according to the polling is losing, no question, and has a narrowing path to

winning, but i always want to put it in context. there is a tendency to catastrophize everything among democrats generally about the actual state of the race. >> that is why the conversation is where it is. if there was any indicator that was resounding one way or the other they would not be as much back and forth. >> i want to bring into this conversation a democratic pollster who has been inside democratic politics and polling inside politics for quite some time and first your reaction to the news we have now that there was a one-on-one meeting with chuck schumer in which he was talking to the president direct the with no one else in the room about the polling. >> you know, chris, we've talked about this before. i am about to lose my mind with all of the polling talk, i really am. we've got to the point now where whatever narrative you want to drive, this polling data drives the narrative. this is how we got into

thousand 22, the red wave, the red tsunami because of the polling data. no, it is because of the people driving the narrative they want. you have all seen the polling that is public right now and the campaign has polling of its own, but all of the public polling that is out there right now shows a race within the margin of error, kind of like it was before the debate. so here is the other thing. look. when bush was going into his reelection before the convention, john kerry was up a couple of points on george bush. in 2012 before the convention, mitt romney and barack obama were tied, also a tossup in some polls it was mitt romney up a pointer to periods of rest to take the current polling and say the president is down a couple of points, in the overall average, so that is the reason why he should leave the race, i think is a bit ridiculous and instead of us just talking about peter navarro's insane speech he just gave that you just all watch to

give, we are talking about the president and democrats being disgruntled. we are absolutely killing our nominee and our chances of winning. >> let me follow up on that. clearly i can't speak for chuck schumer. we are reporting what happened. i think you would agree that a meeting like this does not happen that often. that clearly there is some genuine, acute concern. i guess the thing that folks, and again i can't speak for chuck schumer, but the people who do seem to be advancing that concern, it seems that the concern is over and above the normal level of handwringing anxiety, which is a combination of two factors. the threat that donald trump's second term poses which i think people feel falls outside the realm of normal politics and the worry about the aging condition of the president, both first order and people's

concerns about that. if that is a sticking point that cannot be overcome with messaging or advertising or things like that, it is in a different category perhaps from whatever weaknesses other candidates may face and those two things are driving what is really an acute sense of worry, which again may be as destructive or maybe is, you know, incredibly important to transforming the trajectory of the race. i don't know the answer. >> let's be clear about something. you know what i do c polling data? i see that voters are hearing more negative information about biden than positive information. that is coming from people who did not watch the debate, but heard about the debate secondhand. all of this is giving republicans what we call in the business earned media hits on top of our ticket than they could buy with $1 billion. again, i would simply point to you. there have been a lot of crazy

things talked about it at this convention. instead of talking about that and how it impacts middle-of- the-road voters and their pocketbooks on the rights, we are talking about democrats in fighting and trying to push the president out. look, i don't have a dog in this fight but i will say there are some 14 million grassroots democrats who voted for biden and the idea that a couple of elites will push amount because of polling numbers, i have to tell you chris, there is a huge downside to that. >> let me respond to that, because i have heard that same characterization from the president and other people. one thing in polling that is clear is if you pull just democrats and again this is a reliable polling result in six, seven, eight, nine polls. it was true before the debate. a majority of democrats now say president biden should step aside. they might be wrong and foolish, but just as an

empirical matter of what we know from the polling, it is not an elite phenomenon, these concerns. >> well it is certainly an elite phenomenon trying to push him out, because you certainly don't have this in the grassroots of the democratic party. look. before the debate there was a majority of people not happy with biden as a candidate as well as a majority not happy with donald trump as a candidate, but they are our candidates. look. when i got to my driveway there is no ferrari in it. i've got to get in what i want to get where i want and right now biden is the candidate and he has the agenda that most democrats want, so we should probably rally around him and stop trying to bring him down because as he says, he's not going anywhere and chris look, they can't force amount. they can't. >> i don't -- i mean, i never say never in politics, but i don't disagree with that. again, i'm not saying what the

path is. we are reporting what is happening. clearly there is tremendous internal dissent happening in the democratic party. inc. you very much. appreciate it. all right, night three of the republican national convention is just getting started. democratic senator mark kelly of arizona will be here. lots to talk about. we will be right back. back. & accessories to gifts for teachers. when you need back-to-school supplies under $40 everyone can agree on... etsy has it. (♪♪) (♪♪) bounce back fast from heartburn with tums gummy bites, and love food back. (♪♪)

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welcome back to our special coverage of the third night of the rnc convention in milwaukee. joining us now is a senior political columnist at politico who, if i am not mistaken, is in the fiserv arena in the great city of milwaukee. jonathan, we have been covering developments, the news breaking about this meeting that chuck schumer had to. there have been other reports about a meeting others had with the president of the united states and you have been reporting on this as well. what have you learned? >> reporter: my understanding is that for the first time internal polling data that folks being paid by the biden campaign has cracked the inner circle. that a couple of democratic sources told me that biden's top aide have seen their own data effectively and it is not appreciably worse than the

public data, but i think that has finally started to seep through and that has been jarring for the biden high command because obviously they have seen national polling that has been pretty solid or pretty stable. the polling has been sobering for them, so that has been an issue there. the polling finally broke through and that has opened the door slightly. that is separate from that schumer meeting last saturday. you guys know this. i don't know if your viewers do, but the news of that meeting broke within minutes of the attempted shooting of former president trump, so that meeting was never fully reported --

>> i think we have some audio issues in milwaukee. >> we lost the sound on you, jonathan, can you hear me? we will make sure we can figure that out. that is a good point that of course the context of that matters because the last few weeks of political news has been so insane. that meeting was happening on the same day as the rally in butler, pennsylvania, in which an assassin came within an inch of murdering, assassinating, former president trump. the news of the meeting came out understandably so soon by the enormity and horror of that. >> and honestly everybody is still trying to process the implications of the attempted assassination on the race and the import of violence more broadly in american culture, which is an ongoing discussion as it were and there is someone we want to bring in now who knows political violence firsthand. senator mark kelly democrat

from arizona joins us now. i want to first get your reaction as we are hearing reports still to be confirmed by our sources with nbc news, that chuck schumer the majority leader had a one-on-one conversation with president biden in delaware on saturday where he appears, it sounds like, took the concerns of his caucus to the president and suggested he needs to step down. what is the reaction to that? >> i just heard that today. meetings over the past couple of weeks of been talking about this issue but i think that the reality of the situation is that president biden and kamala harris are our nominees. millions of americans voted for them across the country and 50 states and territories and we have an election in 110 days and we've got to be focused on that. we have to make sure that we work as hard as possible and not make any mistakes and if we do that i am confident that

biden-harris can be reelected. >> you think that is the view of your fellow democrats in the senate as well? >> i'm not going to get into our internal discussions and i'm not going to speak for my colleagues. i will say that there are differing views. >> let me ask you this, senator. we were just discussing the assassination attempt which happened three days ago. obviously your wife, gabby giffords, was shot and grievously wounded while serving as a united states congressperson. you know firsthand the effects of both gun violence and political violence, what it does, even just at the human level. i am curious to hear how you have reacted to this news. how it landed in your household. >> certainly for me it brought back memories from those days. the day that gabby was shot.

she was serving in congress. she was meeting with constituents. she was a member of congress. at the time i was an astronaut. i had flown a few space shuttle missions. 39 missions in combat. as it would turn out, my wife, gabby giffords, was the person who had the dangerous job and it is sad that this continues. that was 15 years ago and today we still have this kind of political violence and i feel for the president, the former president and his family. certainly for the family members of the firefighter that was killed that day. there is no place in our society for this kind of violence. >> senator, sorry, it is alex wagner again. do you have sort of an assessment of how the republican party has grappled with the attempted assassination of its ticket leader? have you gotten anything as someone who has experienced it himself and has feelings about it and processed it, what you make with how the gop is grappling with it on the whole?

>> i know it has to be shocking for them, to think that this could happen and i am thankful that the shooter was not successful. you know, the former president who is extremely lucky and was only slightly injured -- but we have an election coming up and we've got to tone down the rhetoric. i was on capitol hill on january 6. and when the former president through a political speech sent a mob up there to interfere with the peaceful transition of power and you know that should not be something that is tolerated in our society and i am concerned if this continues that we could have somebody, additional people injured or killed, so i think it is on all of us to try to tone down the rhetoric, to focus on the election, which is a very patriotic thing that happens every two to four years

in our country and we've got to resolve our differences at the ballot box. one thing that really concerns me, alex, is the selection of j.d. vance, somebody that is only in that position as the vice presidential candidate because of his loyalty, his loyalty to donald trump and that he would do what mike pence refused to do, which is to change the outcome of the election. then you add on top of that his issues that he has with women's reproductive rights, which i would be happy to get into with you in more detail. i am really concerned that j.d. vance could be a heartbeat away from the presidency. >> senator, i'm glad you brought up j.d. vance. j.d. vance was one of two senate candidates in the past cycle that were heavily backed by right-wing billionaire peter teal. there is a group of people, elon musk, peter teal and others, very right wing tech

billionaires. >> chris, the other one was my opponent. >> that is what i was going to ask you. you had millions of dollars dumped on your head and you defeated him. >> they are very similar. j.d. vance wants a total abortion ban. when asked about exceptions what does he say? he said two wrongs don't make a right. when is it wrong for a woman who has been raped to want to terminate a pregnancy? he said these were just inconveniences. the fact that a woman could be pregnant after being raped. inconveniences when you get stuck in traffic on your way home from work. i have two daughters. i have a granddaughter. i am really concerned about j.d. vance being a heartbeat away from the presidency and as vice president, being involved in

decision-making that can affect my kids. i mean this guy voted against protections for birth control and ivf. i mean he also, he talks about social security and medicare. he talks about how this is a roadblock. those programs are lifelines for millions of seniors across our country. >> senator, i wonder if you could talk a little bit about what you envision in terms of maga 2.0 if j.d. vance is president. he almost makes maga look moderate in some ways. >> i think with anything, 2.0 is usually worse than 1.0, so i would expect this thing to eventually go off the rails but i think what the american people need to recognize is that their freedoms and their rights are at stake in this election. on november 5. we have got to get voters out, showing up to

make sure that joe biden and kamala harris are reelected. i am really concerned about a future with four more years of donald trump in the white house and what could come after that possibly with j.d. vance. >> senator mark kelly, thank you for making the time tonight. really appreciate it. msnbc's special coverage of night three of the rnc continues live. j.d. vance once told his college roommate that donald trump was somewhere between nixon and hitler and j.d. vance is about to make a speech as donald trump's new running mate. his ex-roommate is here to make sense of how that happened, next. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need... ...without the stuff you don't. so, here's to now. boost. as americans,

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well, there is a lot going on, isn't to there? it is night three of the republican national convention. there is also a lot happening on the floor. we will bring in nbc news correspondent jacob soboroff, doing a wonderful job covering the rnc in milwaukee. what is it like on the floor? >> reporter: it is definitely a change in tone and a change in feeling on the floor as opposed to the first two nights after former president trump came in after surviving that assassination attempt. today is a bunch of familiar faces of the maga universe. the first i saw was the former

acting director of national intelligence who i first saw two days after the election in 2020, when he was denying the results of the election and saying they should be overturned because of thousands of illegitimate votes. we saw peter navarro come out with the loudest ovation i have heard so far, add living beyond the prompter saying there is blood on the hands of alejandro mayorkas and we heard calls for mass deportations. i don't know if there are signs now, but people were holding signs of mass deportation. they want to do the biggest deportation program, bigger than an operation that i can't say on the air. feel free to google it. it is the idea of unity, policies of unity. if you thought that is what you would get tonight, that is not happening. >> nbc news correspondent jacob soboroff at the rnc for us tonight, thank you. >> later tonight we will hear from ohio senator j.d.

vance as he addresses the country as trump's vice presidential pick. today he called his running mate donald trump a real leader and a great president. we will hear much more tonight, but we do not expect to hear anymore of this tonight. critical comments vance made about trump when he ran the first time in 2016. here is a sampling. i go back and forth between thinking trump is cynical like nixon who wouldn't be that bad and might even be useful or that trump is america's hitler. the guy that j.d. vance wrote that text to, his old yale law school roommate and current georgia state senator josh mclaurin joins us now. thanks for spending time with us this evening. the first thing i have to ask you is in your time in the ivy league's with j.d. vance, did you get any inkling of the deep disgust he apparently has four ivy league intellectuals who he now believes are part of a regime that has developed an economic

platform that is distinctly at odds with what is good for quote unquote real america. did you sense that populism when you were rooming with him in the ivy league's? >> hi, alex and chris, great to join you. in a word, yes, but it was limited. so much of this is performance. you have to choose to lay it on thick, but it may come from some legitimate anger that some voters have. there is anger on both sides, but it is a choice to turn that into contempt and i think that is what jd has been doing since getting into politics and why he is an effective communicator and amplifier for the maga movement. i really liked him at first. he is charismatic one-on-one, he is intelligent and he had thoughtful things to say about conservative positions. he didn't just echo the unlimited gun rights talking points. he once told me he thought the second amendment was a paradox because it is law, but also preserving the right of people

to overthrow the government, which is inconsistent with law and order, so he is thoughtful with things like that. he was skeptical and that is one of the reasons we didn't get along as the years went by and really the months. in the future he had a very caustic and sarcastic sense of humor about the law school and some of the people there. i ran the comedy show at law school, so i was trying to have a good time. i think what we are seeing now is the anger he had from childhood. who knows. it kind of doesn't matter. he is now taking that anger and saying he wants to impose that bad feeling, that contempt on the whole country because of his distrust for the caricature that he made out of the media and the left and whoever his political opponents might be. >> you received that text where he calls trump potentially america's hitler. he is now the running mate to that man. i understand the anger and contempt and rage, but to cede your values, it sounds like, if

you are someone skeptical of the second amendment, standing in line with trump shoulder to shoulder, does that make sense? does that comport with the person you once knew? it is a staggering 180. >> we all know it doesn't make sense, so we all grasp to explain it. you can imagine i've had a lot of conversations with old friends and new about this moment and the thing that keeps coming up is when you think your opponent is evil or worthy of contempt then your principles don't really matter anymore. the bigger you make your enemy, whatever principles or thoughtfulness you might've had, you can throw those by the wayside because it is justified by that contempt. i think what we have seen with him as he had a gut reaction like so many of us did to trump. this guy is clearly narcissistic. he is a fraud. he was saying trump was a fraud all the way to 2021. there is audio to that effect, so it is not like he doesn't get it. he was very insightful.

the text he sent me was that trump was the fruit of collective neglect by the republican party ignoring the working class and he was a demagogue exploiting the failures of this party. that is sophisticated analysis that holds true. i think that is what makes him more than an ordinary flip- flopper. plenty of elected officials were against trump before he was for trump, but jd is different and i think more dangerous. rather than being an empty suit parroting maga talking points, i think he let his anger take over his life and i don't think he is going home and having a whiskey and putting his feet up and saying that trump guy is crazy, but i have to defend him on tv. i think at this point he is so angry, so motivated by the spirit of revenge that trump publicly exposed that he is the perfect running mate for trump, which i said recently and also that he is really magnifying the maga moment and doubling down instead of being a

moderate pick. >> on that last point i spent the last few days doing a lot of reading of j.d. vance interviews and things he has written. some of the profiles of him and a lot of his social media and my thesis from afar is that he has radicalized himself. that whatever began as opportunism, this is obviously the path to power and status in the republican party. that is obviously inseparable, but he is a true believer in this in the same way that we saw elon musk basically self radicalizing real-time online. we watched a bunch of these people do this and i am curious what you think of that as a theory because i think a lot of it is the opportunism we've been hearing, but to me i see someone fully committed to this agenda. when he says that the president should fire every mid-level bureaucrat and defy the spring court when they strike it down, i don't think that is posturing. >> i agree. you can think of it in addition to being opportunism for his political advancement. it is also opportunism to be a

jerk, right? that's why i tweeted that i think this is a triumph for angry jerks everywhere. even if he is mostly angry on tv he is creating the same permission structure trump is creating which is ordinary americans can show contempt for one another and nothing will happen to you. it is like what we hear about at schools. bullying increasing. this moment for the whole culture. i think he really underestimates or does not care about the effect of this type of contempt spilling over into everyday life and further deteriorating our political culture. i agree with you that i think he drink the kool-aid wholesale because that is the way to motivate his sincerity when he brings that kind of anger to messaging. >> that is one way to motivate sincerity. georgia state senator joshua mclaurin, thanks for really providing helpful analysis and perspective. really appreciate it. >> thank you. i will be live tweeting

frustrations later if you want to follow along, but it has been an honor to join you. >> thanks for joining us. there is a lot of news we are covering tonight, that is an understatement, as we continue to watch the republican national convention including new reports from top democratic leadership calling for joe biden to step aside, as well as the presidents covid diagnosis this afternoon. we will talk about all of that with claire mccaskill and michelle goldberg, if i can just get their names out, coming up next. mes it's the smell of mildew when water has seeped into the interior walls. or maybe they've spotted mold in the attic. but most often it's the more obvious signs of damage like rotten soffit, fascia, or water pooling near their foundation. you can get ahead of costly damage by protecting your home's gutters today. we're in your neighborhood and ready to help. schedule your free gutter inspection today, call 833 leaffilter, or visit leaffilter.com

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welcome back. just before we went on here tonight around 8:00 eastern we got a recording from abc news the senate majority chuck schumer and house minority leader i came jeffrey both told the president he should bow out of the presidential race is a democratic nominee. the washington post has a similar report that jeffries and schumer, of course, the minority leader in the house are presented senate majority leader that they both privately warned biden he could hurt democrats. adding that he's congressionally to discuss the members professed concern that biden could deprive them of congressional majorities given republicans a mushy dirt path to push the legislation according to four pull briefed on the meetings who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe private encounters. joining us in our claire mccaskill former democratic senator richard and michelle goldberg up on columnist for the new york times. good to have you here. >> thanks. >> well? i feel like --

>> what's happening ? >> can you just give me your phone actually? [ laughter ] >> don't even look at it. >> the most important thing to remember is that i'm not saying this happened. i'm not saying anything that i have information about a meeting what was said. i will say this is a meeting was had -- >> a meeting was had event that meetings tumor expressed to the president concerns it wasn't schumer's concerns. he would be carrying information from his caucus. he sees his job. i know this for a fact. as really a representative of the democratic senators. not that he has judgment that's better than theirs that he should decide himself what if anything the president should do. i believe that he would only be there to convey to the president data. that probably i

would assume would probably be internal data that they have because all the senate campaigns are pulling constantly. they have all the public of the last two weeks. i know that for a fact. i think he would probably be carrying information that his caucus wants him to say. not that he would be out there soloing. >> do you think the mere fact that both potentially jeffries and schumer went to the president even it was just to convey the concerns of their caucuses. doesn't that single that the men themselves have concerns, too. why bring it to biden in this our ? >> that's their job to represent the caucuses. there the elected leader. i will tell you. chuck schumer, he is very good about checking with members of the caucus. i was in the caucus. and so was jon tester. and so was jaron brown.

and and states that we looked at the -- he managed to keep not all the time but managed to keep joe manchin and kristin cinema. unified many moments that really mattered. he is very good about making sure he understands especially the senators have tough races. remember, some of the people that have never expressed any issue with what happened at the debate and aftermath aren't very safe seats. >> right. >> the people that will be most concerned about what impact, you know, joe biden might have on the rest of the ticket are going to be people running a very tough places. those are the ones we are -- that need to win in order for there to be a democratically controlled senate and democratically controlled house. >> i will pause right there just to plant attention at the floor in milwaukee with they have announced a former president donald trump has entered the auditorium. he likes to be there for every

night of the convention. he did that i think in 2016 and doing it again. not traditionally the weight works. the usually to build up. they are way. enthusiasm builds up and they come and get maybe on this would've been ultimate night but trump has been a constant presence. of ashley batey when he walks into the auditorium. of course, meant 78 years old who survived assassin's bullet bike and inch. remarkable turn of events. entering in the arena. let me ask you, michelle. one of the things about -- the something -- there was a level of exasperation i find a lot of folks that i talked to, which is that it feels like the worst of all worlds. it just is drawn out and every time it feels like there's some unity there is some new wave. everyone is looking around me like what are we doing here? >> you have been around biden

or he steps down but you can't do this for four more months where everyone is dead. >> the column i'm planning on writing tomorrow is that people have to hold hands and jump. i think we had some information a majority of democratic caucus in the senate wants a new candidate. they were certainly many more people in the house who wanted a candidate who then were coming forward. so far, biden from his bubble can say, it is one senator and two dozen or less members of congress. he doesn't have to take this seriously as a kind of majority sentiment. this trickle, this low kind of everybody -- everyone waiting for the bottom to fall out. somebody -- i think the people feel a level of despair but they also feel a level of leaderless nest. basically what needs to happen i think is -- i spoke to a member of congress today. what i'm afraid of is that we weaken biden and refuses to drop out. people are paralyzed by that. biden is been weekend -- just as much by this process.

rip the band-aid off. come out and say what you want to happen. if he survives that he survives that. >> and it's over. that to me is what is so key here. from a an analytical standpoint. the prospects of the democratic nominee. has to be unity in the end in the space it has been occupied since the debate. >> i do wonder if you're looking down, you know, the tunnel of maybe an open convention. how much does give you pause. this is the way to oust biden. is largely sort of like protracted somewhat leaderless and has not necessarily serve the party as well as a could have or and confident the selection of a potentially new person would be done more shall we say efficiently. >> first of all, i think this is an extraordinary situation. and really hard. keep in mind all the people who have expressed any doubts about joe biden they are democrats

and care deeply about the man. many of them are his dear friends. and have served with him for decades and decades and love him and love the job he is done. that makes it really hard. the reality is that if this was going to be simple, it would have been simple. but it's not. and our party -- i will agree with you. this needs to get resolved quickly. then we will need to get together and work our tails off for joe biden or work our tails off or have the nominee is. but this protracted process is painful. i don't know how you can make it simple. >> there is no process. that's the problem. there's literally no process. the process happened. it was primary. people trying to boost them and the three leaders of the democratic party nancy pelosi, hakeem jeffries and chuck schumer probably the top three.

>> and jim clyburn. >> they all seem to be moving in one direction. take you very much. that will do it for us tonight. there is much more still ahead. rachel maddow will pick up her coverage of night three of the republican national convention with j.d. vance taking the stage tonight. do not go anywhere. good evening a thank you for joining us for special coverage of day three of the republican national convention. the convention is a four day affair altogether. it means we are nearly there. tomorrow night will be the big finale. donald trump giving his speech accepting the presidential nomination of his party for the third straight residential election. the last time they had a different nominee it was 2012.