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hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in the east. for those who reside in the pro democracy coalition in american politic, today is set to be another clarifying moment in a campaign that has seen one of those after another after another, in which the stakes continue to rise. tonight the four times indicted, convicted of 34 felonies ex-president will accept the nomination for the third time from the republican party. it caps off a con vepgs that not a single crack in the facade of full support for donald trump. s the fact that i alone can fix it, he managed to convince the entire republican party of that, and those who cling to those peskically traditions of

democracy, find themselves in the pro democracy coalition. what's set to happen tonight seemed unthinkable even to some of the republicans in the room. in the wake of that violent insurrection that led to the deaths of two police officers more than 100 others injured, our country's image around the world as a stable democracy thrown into doubt forever. here's how some of the leaders reacted then. >> there's no question. none. that president trump is prakt accomplice and morally responsible for provoing the events of the day. no question about it. >> all i can say is count me out. >> the president bears responsibility for wednesday's attack on congress by mob rioters.

>> trump went down a path he shouldn't and and we shouldn't have listened to him and we can't let that ever happen again. what a difference a few years making here they all are now. >> i support him. he's earned the nomination by the voters across the country. >> i was for president trump. >> i'm standing with president trump. i'm supporting him. >> donald trump has my strong endorsement, period. which brings us back to tonight and the show of unity. with most dissent quells, trump will be in a stronger position

than in his 2017 to 2021 term to follow through on his agenda. by the divisions that sometimes stymied him in his first term, trump would be freer to pursue policies that include mass deportations as part of a crackdown on illegal migration, trade policies and dismissing government officials. it has been clear for years now that any check at all on donald trump and the maga movement he would usher in can only come from democratic elected officials, which is why the debate within the democratic party over the candidacy of president biden, who is beloved, whose long and successful record as president has been overshadow ed about his ability to prosecute the case against donald trump feels important enough to tell you about today. a wave of new reporting today

reveals that president obama, nancy pelosi, chuck schumer, and house democratic leader hakeem jeffries have all expressed doubts about the path forward for biden's campaign in one way or another to him. according to "the washington post," quote, former president obama has told allies in recent days that president biden's path to victory has greatly diminished and he thinks the president needs to seriously consider the viability of his candidacy, end quote. the state of america's struggle between democracy and something far more autocratic in nature is where we begin today. in milwaukee ats the rnc, host of the podcast in politic national affairs analyst my friend john heilemann is here. plus columnist and contributor charlie sykes is here. vaughn hillyard is back with us. also joining us is strategist and professor at columbia university political analyst basil smikle. i start with you on this moment.

where trump four-times indicted, twice impeached, held liable for sexual abuse, referred to the department of justice by mitch mcconnell in that clip there, detested by kevin mccarthy, floated the 25th amendment on a call with republican leaders. they have all fallen in line and here we go again. >> it was when you started at the beginning saying that this is the third time being nominated, you have to think it's not about protecting the country against where we think we might go if he's president. we are here. the republican party is solidly behind him. it is scary. kamala harris laid out the case for why the democratic party is the alternative to the tearing

down of democracy and talking about the economic wins and all of the wins of the biden/harris administration. i kept going back to kendrick lamar. i just wanted to say they are not like us. and i think that's really the theme of it all. that democratic party in this new to coalition that has been create the. it has it as it disposes a coalition and it's true. this party is unlike what the party has dealt with before. it's ten wous. it's fragile, but it's worth bringing together and the nervousness about this time, and we have all discussed it. the nervousness about this time is will the voter see the confidence that the party has in

itself. can that translate to the voter and can that be used to really mobilize everybody to the polls. that's why this moment in time is so critical to be able to instill that kind of confidence. but what we have seen on the stage night after night in this republican convention, i want to be clear. it's not people who evolved. they are people who transacted. they sold something of themselves to be able to stand on that stage. and seth the accolades from donald trump and the rest of the electorate. and it's scary because one wonders what else the he has in store. but if you have any questions, it's laid out in the 900-page instruction manual called project 2025. >> i so appreciate you for all the conversations we have had in the last couple weeks. i have some of kamala harris doing what you just described. let me play that.

>> in recent days, they have been trying to portray themselves as a party of unity. but here's the thing. here's the thing. if you claim to stand for unity, you need to do more than just use the word. you cannot claim you stand for unity if you are pushing an agenda that deprives whole groups of americans of basic freedoms, opportunity and dignity. >> i think in reaction to donald trump, it's amazing how much he still shapes the entire political conversation. people shrink in reaction to him, in response to him. and kamala harris has -- a lot

of the speeches have happened in my hours. and where he's sort of got the republican party sort of slipping into all of his wrinkles and creases, she's sort of elevated the entire conversation about the contrast. it's about everybody. and i think one of the ways that humans have adapted to trump is to say he won't come for me. it won't be me. he's coming for everybody. that's clear in the four years of the presidency and the four years in political exile meeting with the likes of kanye. he will eventually come for everyone that isn't under his tent. what do you make -- explain what you make of how this conversation is shaping up, especially the things she's been pointing to. >> a couple things. there's an incredible mention in the democratic party. there's so many people who are so extraordinary qualified and articulating the importance of this moment to talk about where we have been and where we have to go.

if you focus specifically on vice president harris, one of the things that i have talked about is over the last few years, she's been this administration's secret weapon. she has an intersectionalty embedded within her that can speak to so many corners of the party about the ways in which multiple policies affect all of these communities going forward. whether you're talking about black women's maternal health, whether you're talking about racism, whether you talk about democracy. there's so many ways that she touches so many americans in his story in many ways that jd vance's story, however made up or contrived that has been, may not really speak to who he actually is as an individual. but she has had this ability. i'm just saying one quick thing. i don't know if you had an opportunity to talk about this, but one of the things that struck me about project 2025 and what republicans are doing,

there's a movement across the country to get rid of no-fault divorces. one could say, what's the point of that? why does that even matter? it matters because we have no-fault divorce in this country so women didn't feel particularly in situations where they were abused that they had to stay in a marriage where at that time it was very difficult to get a divorce if the man didn't want you to. when you think about where we come from, then republicans are trying to take that away, tough ask yourself, how low are they trying to go? there's no bottom to the policy depths that they will go to kind of pull back and real back time. i think what vice president kamala harris has been saying is there's no going back. we have to move forward. there's no backsliding. and i think that message based on everything that has been said, that has been brought out, particularly by project 2025, i think it's really laid the

foundation for that and she has been the cornerstone of it. >> john heilemann, you have covered her a long time. you both hail from california. this piece that basil picked out to highlight from the 900-page document is interesting because it does intersect with jd vance's state of positions. in an interview he said, women should stay in marriages, including ones that are violent. tell me of the contrast is shaping up now that it's trump and all things trump plus jd vance and all things jd vance. >> well, honestly, i don't want to jump ahead in the program, but i think the contrast -- i think the contrast would require a degree of focus that, frankly, the democratic side doesn't have. not to critique vice president harris' event today, but

honestly, you have been there in a campaign, not quite this place, but you know what it's like to be under water. when you're having an existential crisis in a campaign, you can go through -- you can be trying to do some things in the world, you might be able to have a good event, you might be able to put out an ad, but in the end, all you're doing is fielding the incoming on the matter at hand, which in this case is whether joe biden is going to end up remaining on at the top of the ticket or not. i think what we're going to come out of this convention with is because jd vance, unlike dougburg ham or marco rubio, who is a very known commodity in american politics, not to say there weren't places to contrast yourself with rubio's policies and points of view, but jd vance was among these three the most

incendiary, the most controversial, the one who is furthest outside the mainstream of american political thought and traditional republican thought, and so there is a lot to go after with jd vance. for those people who think donald trump, this was a risky pick, i say two things. always remembering the bottom of the ticket in the end doesn't really matter. it's not what people vote for. they vote for the top of the ticket. we know this from 100 years of political science scholarship, but it is the case that the vice presidential debate, which the trump campaign now seems to be indicating they are willing to do the debate that the biden campaign wants, whether that's going to be kamala harris or not, that's another question, but the earlier debate in the summer on cbs, not pushing for the later debate on fox news that they originally pushed for, that will be because of the fact that if kamala harris is still on the ticket and has not moved

up on the ticket, that will be quite a thing. a couple of highly trained lawyers who will be able to do some issues, and it might be a place because of a lot of the controversial issues, a vice presidential debate might matter more than they traditionally do. >> let's deal with the injection of sort of reality-based analysis that you started with, john heilemann. there is a sense of paralysis. i wonder if that inability to sort of dig out the crisis mode in terms of donors, in terms of stories, in terms of democratic officials writing letters. it's sering and devastating politically. just tell me your understanding of the state of play. >> look, just to say that in

general, when the other party is holding its convention, although the party that's not holding the convention will try to counter program some. that's traditionally the case. but in reality, the campaign, whatever party has is holding its convention is going to dominate media. so in some ways, this actually isn't the worst week for there to be paralysis on the other side because this was going to be the moment where republicans were going to have robust coverage, especially after what happened with donald trump. the stage is theirs this week. the stage is his. now having said that, i think that for a lot of democrats, whether they are on the side of wanting to see joe biden bow out, or on the side of wanting to see joe biden stay in, a lot of democrats are freaking out on top of the original freak out that we're three weeks into this

now. there's still not clarity. there's still not a resolution. and for all of the people who are going to say, joe biden is making it clear that he's staying on the ticket, i think that we have now seen that that wall -- as you know in politic, you say you're staying in the race until the moment you drop out. that's true across all politicians i have ever covered. everyone insists i'm never going to drop out, and now i'm dropping out. the reason that some people have been skeptical about joe biden's insistence to stay in the race is they have seen political history in nomination fights, and occasionally at higher levels where the candidates will step away have insisted and sworn on a stack of bibles for weeks and months that they would never leave, and then they do. right now even from inside the biden world, and i know there's been some pushback, a public statement pushing back within

the last couple hours, but reporters are now hearing from senior people inside joe biden's world who a week ago maintain that there was no way he was going to step down who are saying things like we get it's over. people who work from joe biden senior people, not at the very senior most levels, not the first lady, not his son, but others who are seeing the write ing on the wall. and i think that for everybody's sake, whether you are on the side of wanting biden to stay in or wanting biden to pull out, i think everyone to the future is, i think the tide has turned against joe biden. if i had to bet, i think having the entirety of the leadership of this party now telling him

effectively that he needs to step aside, it's hard to maintain a candidacy in those circumstances. but he might. either way, the party would be well served at the end of this republican convention week with not very much time before the democratic convention. either way, to know by monday what the sans. >> yeah, and president obama, one of the most careful and deliberate politicians ever being out there today is by people who know him and covered him not accidental. no one is going anywhere. i haven't scratched the surface yet with charlie and vaughn. also still ahead for us, the investigation into the attempted assassination of donald trump. how law enforcement missed multiple opportuniies to stop the gunman. we'll dive into the timeline that's been recreated that tells

us what was happening. that's before the shots were fired. and later, more on what a trump second administration would have in store should he prevail in november. a revenge-filled agenda driven by a leader who has shown over and over again he's more willing to put himself every single time ahead of the interest of the country. "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere.

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woman: [screams] ♪ [explosion] [explosion] ♪ [lock clicks shut] we are back with john, charlie, vaughn, and basil. led ed let me read this from "the new york times" today. on the main stage at the rnc this week, some trademarks have

been missing. no celebrations of the january 6th rioters, no talk of election mules smuggling ballots. even references to democrats cheating in elections are so spare they could be easy to miss. across the street, it's a different story. they are in media row, the right wing activists galvanized by former president trump's lies about the 2020 election was buzzing. podcasters chatted about plans for paper ballots and hand counts, mike lindell, who was one of the most prominent promotors of conspiracy theories about election fraud, gave interviews about rigged voting machines. while more politically pal atable messages take center stage. it's still there, vaughn. we had two on who had a great piece on saturday morning about the efforts to prevent certification of the election in 2024, especially if it looks like trump coming out on top. talk about how that's been

papered over this week. >> reporter: if i may, i think the individual who received the greatest ovation last night was none other than than peter navarro, who came straight from federal prison to the stage to deliver a message that he spent three months in prison because he refused to comefully with the congressional subpoena from the select committee. the invitation to speak on this stage, they told us he was not asked to edit any of the content of his speeches, were notable because unlike the democratic party right now, let's be clear. this is a republican party that is not scared of its own shadow. it is not scared of who it is or who it is associated with. a few moments ago, we saw paul manafort here on the convention floor. he was pardoned in 2020 by donald trump after he was found guilty on federal charges ofback and tax fraud and sentenced to seven years in prison.

you have the likes of roger stone here. he was also pardoned by donald trump. you have rudy giuliani here on the convention floor. you have a number of fake electors on the convention floor. you have sheriff joe -- he was the first to be pardoned from donald trump here. and this is a party that understands it doesn't need paul ryan to win wisconsin. it is not trying to convince john boehner to come on this stage or the likes of john kasich to come and win the state of ohio. it is comfortable with its identity and who it is here. and that's not the case for the last largely eight years, where there was concerns about the stain that some individuals, some of these right wing media outlets may have on the america's view of what this party is. but over the course of 20 months now since donald trump first launched his primary campaign, they have been really a teflon. donald trump has not taken any

political hits. he and his campaign team understand that right now that there's one party that is comfortable in its own skin and doesn't need to try to win over the likes of mike pence to win the general election. instead, it's the democratic party that is concerned over its identity right now and its strength and its concern of its own shadow. >> let me just push back curiously. it hasn't taken any hits. nikki haley was humiliating him as recently as fife weeks ago by winning a percentage of the votes after leaving the race. he saw the polls in its defense, the democratic party sees him as he describes hum. unapologetically associating him with other felons who he pardoned. people were waving mass deportation signs.

if he's so sure he doesn't need the middle, why did he push mike lindell off the stage? >> reporter: two parts of that. it's a good question on the mike lindell front. to be fair, that's a question i should ask. but i would say here at the same time, it's notable when you have nikki haley take the stage. she didn't take the stage ought years ago at the cleveland convention. at the time, we were having a lot of conversations about folks who were republican elected officials who were concerned about the stain that donald trump could have on them. but she tried to beat him. but she came back up on to stage in a great many in the republican party elected officials understand the power dynamic here in 2024. the second part of that is look what they printed on the campaign signs here. it was mass deportations now. there was not some steven miller in the background advising donald trump on what 2025 could look like. but it is printed on these convention signs that were held by the delegates on the floor

that mass deportations now. the crowd here chanting send them back. i think it's at the activist level here of the heart of the republican party today, there's little fear about the pushback on its policies or identities or associating with donald trump here. that's a certain level of strength. as for mike lindell, i'll try to track him down and come back to you tomorrow with that answer. >> i event all of vaughn's reporting as fact. and i think that they feel strong doesn't mean they are strong electorally. i think this is where the whole frame around the process on the democratic side is premature and could end up being wrong. it's a sign of strength that the democrats understand that an effectively prosecuted case against all, that thinking it's good that laura loomer is walking around and everyone is wearings mass deportation signs and getting ready to wave them around in front of the cameras

because they are unashamed isn't the same as being unafraid of being losing. they wouldn't be rigging the certification or suppressing the vote in every way they have. they wouldn't be filing lawsuits to make sure no one can drop off a ballot in a drop box, which is the most secure kind of ballot. so the projection of strength is central to donald trump's brand, but it should never be conflated with political strength. >> it also shouldn't be conflated with anything that's normal in american the politics. we have said this before, but think about where we are tonight. think about where we are this week. lennon said whole decades happen in weeks. sometimes it feels like a whole decade is happening in a day. we shouldn't look away from how bizarre it is that this cob convention is about to nominate a former president who tied to

overthrow the election, who incited an attack on the capitol, who has been found liable for rape and yet they are all in on this. and as was said, they are all in on some of the most extreme elements of this agenda. so i hope that people don't get distracted by the show here or think that tonight donald trump became presidential. because he's still the same guy. and this party maybe feeling the wind at its back right now. there's a reason for that. but also we need to focus on what are you actually saying? and i'm glad he mentioned the mass deportation, because before anyone says we have a new tone or they are moderating it or this was a different donald trump, donald trump has told us who and what he is many times over the last few years. one of the things that this convention is absolutely committed to doing is the forcible deportation of maybe 10 to 20 million migrants.

now that would be one of the great humanitarian crises of our time. they haven't explained how they are going to do that, deploying the military, rounding people up, demanding their papers, separating families, putting them in mass detention camps, putting hundreds of thousands of people in boxcars, so while all the republicans are celebrating how great this moment is, these questions are still hanging over them as is how totally strange it is for a party of law and order to be embracing one convicted felon after another. let's not get distracted by this political moment or this political poll or the mood of the people who are here and forget what the stakes are for the rest of us. >> it's such a good point. i believe it's also the a rather low -- the ratings are pretty

low. i thought after surviving an assassination attempt that a lot of people who might not be every four year convention watchers would be tuned in. the ratings don't suggest that a lot of people are watching. jd vance is a very extreme person in the views that he's expressed as an elected official in a year and a half. there's been nothing projected that suggest they will not barrel the country into the page by page detailed plans of project 2025. no rejection of it. no evidence that's not what's in store. what is your sense of the opportunities for the case that can be made against him once that sort of head to head starts. >> let me start it a different way. we need to recognize the danger here. i think you began this talking about how united the party, how committed they are to this agenda. we need to take it seriously and

take it literally they are going to do this. trump 2.0 will be much more serious, much more extreme than trump 1.0. this is the danger that everyone in the country needs to confront. as a party, and by the way, some of the optimism is justified let's be honest about it. how many things have broken their way. how demoralized and divided democrats are right now. how much angst, we talk about the democratic panic that i think is morphing into terror. and so we need to be very clear eyed about what it would mean to have donald trump in the white house and 53 or 54 really senators. i think one observer said with 53 or 54 republican senators, you have rick grinnell being confirmed as secretary of state. lord knows who would be the attorney general. so anyone who thinks that they are not serious about this is naive, but also, you raised this point, what right now are the

guardrails? what are the limits? the supreme court has told donald trump that, in effect, he is above the law. the law will not deter him if he doesn't get in. he doesn't have to worry about impeachment or republicans pushing back against him. as democrats decide what they are going to do, i think they really need to step back and go, if we really do think this is an existential crisis, maybe we should behave like it. i think this is the decision that joe biden and his small little bubble he's created now are going to have to make very shortly. are they going to risk all of this? i understand his feelings about all this. the risks cannot be overstated. >> heilemann, i know you wanted to get in a quick last word. quick. >> just to your point originally. donald trump is under water.

donald trump is a politically weak figure. and it is -- the reality of the biden campaign has been with a figure who is as unpopular as donald trump has been and always been, someone never above 46% in a national election, someone who has been a political albatross ever since he got elected, the fact that the democratic incumbent hasn't been able to make more headway against donald trump is the reason why those people in their democratic party, nancy pelosi, hakeem jeffries, chuck schumer, i can't speak to barack obama, but why there are so many democrats making the case they are making. they are not making it because they hate joe biden. they are not making it because they take joy in this. what they are making it is a case they don't want to lose the house and the senate and looking at a winnable presidential election.

donald trump is a profoundly unpopular politician, as you have said. there's a large anti-trump majority in america, and yet right now, forgetting about the debate and battleground states across major battleground states, they are at a massive spending advantage. they have been on the air for months. they have not made headway against donald trump. that's part of what is animating this feeling in the democratic party that joe biden needs to step aside. i'm not endorsing it. i'm just telling you that i talked to democrats all day long. when they make the case, this is what they cite. >> everyone sticks around. we want to thank vaughn hillyard for his reporting. up next for us, there's new reporting and video of the warnings coming just minutes before gunfire erupted at donald trump's rally last saturday. we'll show it you, next. lly last. we'll show it you, next.

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it has been five days since the assassination attempt on ex-president donald trump. finally, new details are emerging about the events in the hour before shots were fired injuring him and attending a rally goer. nbc news reports that the gunman was reported as a suspicious person an hour before the shooting, and according to three sources familiar with the briefing for u.s. senators on wednesday, secret service and fbi officials shared a timeline of events that reveals troubling new details about the assassination attempt.

it also raised questions about why secret service officials allowed trump to take the stage at all. and amid the brackdown in communication between the task of protecting donald trump, new video put together by "the new york times" shows supporters were the ones alerting police of the suspect on the rooftop with a gun minutes before he carried out the attack. watch that. >> someone is on top of the roof. there he is right there. >> there were early warnings to police. >> he's on the roof. >> a secret service sniper team abruptly changing position. >> he's got a gun. >> a sudden panic. >> joining our conversation is investigations correspondent tom winter. this is extraordinary. just take me inside the latest understanding of how this happened. >> sure. it was about an hour before that apparently law enforcement started getting concerned about this individual. he had a range finder. it's not necessarily something that sits on top of a gun, but

it's something that you would use if you were playing golf and wanted to know the distance between you and an object. that's what it does. and so apparently, he had this on his person. he's he might have even gone inside. and threw the security area into the actual rattle thely for a short period of time. no indication he was armed a the that point or armed near the check point. so they know they have this person who is suspicious. they are looking for him. and different points they see him and they even radio to the secret service about 20 minutes beforehand that this individual is suspicious. we're looking for him. they are talking to them. and then it's within approximately two minutes that they actually radio in and say this person is on the roof. now the question was, was he armed at that time? we know when he was on the roof at some point shortly before they radio in, he was armed because that's what local police saw. that's what thaw saw with their own eyes and dropped of the roof

as they went to climb up it. the ultimate question, you alluded to the first one, should donald trump have been allowed to go on the stage with people knowing that there was this suspicious person that was out there. and the second question is, what happened in the intervening few minutes or few seconds between the point where they know he's on the roof and he's got a gun and he starts firing. so those are a couple key ones. i think there's a feeling among secret service and some members of law enforcement that, look, these rallies no matter the candidate, attract some people that are a little bit off or a little bit weird. sometimes we have to look into them. they want to directly speak to the candidate and they have something to tell them. some individuals that might have some challenges with mental health. that happens at rallies. that happens at rallies from the presidential level down to your local politician. i'm sure politician watching that are nodding their head at that. the difference is somebody

pointed out to me today, still noting the seriousness of it, there's no golf course nearby. so why is he walking around with a range finder. it's not as if he's got some sign saying things different. he's got something physical that he has only on him and should he have been stopped and questioned at a certain point. there's some reports that he was moving around fairly quickly from place to place. so was it difficult to determine who this individual is. and the ultimate question, and the beauty of hindsight, we have a suspicious person that's in the crowd. you know about that. then you know you have somebody on the roof. and at what point do you take trump off the stage out of an abundance of caution. each day we get answers, the questions we were answering on your show have largely been answered, but it's only yielded more questions. so it's going to be looked at. the long and short of it here, that roof should never have been uncovered. and what was the presence there around that building prior to him getting up on the roof.

that question remains. that's really the big one that needs to be solved now. out of that briefing, we got word from the fbi director that apparently in the course of going over his electronics, he searched both trump event in butler and trump events in general as well as the dates of the dnc. so obviously, not getting us any closer to a moive here, at least as best they can tell. >> thank you so much for that. thank you for being on this story and for being a trusted source of the facts. there's so much non-factual information swirling around. your reporting is vital. thank you. another break for us. we'll be back with more of this conversation with our panel on the other side. stay with us. h our panel on the other side stay with us

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we are all back. charlie, as tom reported and reading this was five days ago, back to your original point that every day feels like about 11. your thoughts on the state of the investigation and even donald trump's own propulsion of the news cycle. i mean, since the shooting he's announced a vice president, he's tried to project this image of his own convention. what are your thoughts about what if anything we'll hear about it? >> well, i mean, there's no question about the political fallout from this. it has galvanized support here at the convention. he's able to portray himself as a hero and a martyr.

and obviously this investigation raises some really troubling questions about -- about the competence of both the secret service and the local police. and of course you know that in our current environment it will 3d all sorts of conspiracy -- lead to all sorts of conspiracy theories. the other interesting thing developing is the closer you look at the shooter, the less clear it becomes that he was politically motivated here. look, i mean, i believe that we do need to lower the tone of political rhetoric. i do believe, and we've talked about this before, violent rhetoric can lead to actual acts of violence. in this particular case, it's not clear what motivated -- what motivated the shooter. and really it -- it highlights how reckless and irresponsible some of the reaction was, some of the things that j.d. vance said shortly afterwards. people like marjorie taylor greene have said.

and i do think that at some point they need to be held accountable for that, as well. at this moment, there's no question about it that politically this has given a lot of momentum to donald trump right here. you can see this. and you're going to see when he walks out later tonight, it's going to be a very emotional, very dramatic moment. and i guess this is where i just say, you know, that we need to separate the show and the moment from the long-term stakes here because this story is changing and evolving very quickly. >> yeah. john, the nature of our politics, i'd say for the last nine years, which is -- is that all the laws seem different, right? january 6th should have changed the entire frame around our politics and political violence. it didn't. the heinous attack on paul pelosi should have changed the way democrats and republicans

talk about each other. it didn't. republicans circulated conspiracy theories, donald trump amplified them. and all of the things that were sacred are gone. and what does that mean? and i guess it's a question i'm trying to get at is how do you -- how do you sort of cover a party that has done more to destroy all the institutions when it became clear on saturday you desperately need all of those institutions? you need a vibrant, well funded, strong, functioning secret service. you need all of the ties into local police, you need that to work, to be bolstered and supported to keep donald trump and joe biden and everybody safe. >> it's a very large question to be asking here when we -- well, how do you solve for the toxic hell hole that our political discourse has become over the course of the last 20 years? look, fromstandpoint, you

have to cover it the same way when we're at our best we've always covered everything which is fearlessly. and rigorously and without fear or favor. and look, it is a thing where -- you know, i'm not an old man, but i've seen enough to tell you that i never thought we would reach a day where someone could lead an insurrection at the united states capitol and still be allowed in polite society, let alone be allowed -- maybe be allowed to roam free, let alone become -- survive and thrive and have a -- have a greater degree of power, persuasion, cohesion, unity, the party reshaped in his image after having done that on january 6th and in the lead up to january 6th after having been

the -- being the first president in the history of the united states to be convicted on multiple felony counts which, again, when i was growing up, back in the old days when i used to walk to school with snowshoes -- snowshoes on in canoga park, california, if you were convicted of a flown, that would be -- a felony, that would be it. you would be disqualified. you couldn't be dog catcher let alone president of the united states. we're in this crazy upside down world. one thing i will focus on, one small thing. charlie made the point and you made the point about the need for all these institutions. charlie made a point about conspiracy theories. the conspiracy theories started almost immediately after the shots were fired. you saw brad parscale, i noticed, former trump strategist, was like -- how did this happen, this must be -- suggesting it was an inside job somehow. and that rhetoric is still out there, and i will tell you that this may not solve it, but i

will say secret service screwed this up. and this is a -- this is a thing where there should be accountability, there should be a deep investigation that points out -- that gets the secret service to say we messed this up, where all the facts come out and someone gets fired or someones get fired. that may not make all the conspiracy theories go away, but it's a start to making the conspiracy theories go away. if there's an investigation and accountability. >> absolutely. john, charlie, basal, thank you for spending the hour with us. we're grateful. next, how republicans have spent four days working to whitewash the four years donald trump spent in the white house as the nation's president. the next hour of "deadline: white house" starts after a quick break. white house" starts after a quick break. and research on pain relief, my recommendation is simple: every home should have salonpas. powerful yet non-addictive. targeted and long-lasting. i recommend salonpas. it's good medicine. ♪ hisamitsu ♪

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then i see the disinfectant that knocks it out in a minute, one minute. and is there a way we can do

something like that -- by injection inside or -- or almost a cleaning because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. it would be interesting to check that. >> that really happened. hi again, everybody. it's 5:00 in the east. i apologize for making you relive that. at this moment in our politics, it's important to remember exactly what we all went through the last time he was president. the suffering, the many, many investigations into him and his own conduct, the damage done to our institutions, the eroding of democracy, the history attempting to be whitewashed this week by the gop at the republican national convention. "the new york times" opinion writes, quote, this week republicans have tried to rewrite the four years of trump's presidency as a time of unparalleled peace, prosperity, and tranquility. but under his leadership the country lurched from one crisis to the next.

from the migrant families separated at the border to the sudden spike in prices caused by his trade war with china to the reckless mismanagement of the covid pandemic, and he showed over and over and over how little respect he has for the constitution and those who take an oath to defend it. and what lies ahead if trump should prevail in november will be much, much worse, according to him. we know this. he has told us it's on paper this time. donald trump has openly talked about implementing the largest deportation in american history. stacking federal agencies with an army of his loyal disciples, going after and pursuing and prosecuting his enemies using the levers of the federal government, withdrawing the country from our global alliances, things like nato. it would mean an end to the america we know and love. we cannot lose sight of that as the ex-president projects whatever he projects this week.

and formally accepts the republican nomination again tonight. it caps off a multi-day event that has presented a choice before all of us, before the american people. it's not grounded in truth or reality. there is not a lot of toned down rhetoric that they promised would come following the tragic attempted assassination over the weekend. "the daily show" points that out. >> word on the street was that the rnc speeches were going to be civil and polite now. so bring on the good vibes. >> the democrats' disastrous record on crime, trade, and regulation has ruined the lives of countless minnesotans. >> your family is less safe. >> biden's violent crime crisis -- >> our children are dying -- >> war on families. >> indoctrination -- >> trampled under foot by the radical left. >> biden and the democrats are doing everything they can to tear down this great country. >> america cannot afford four more years of a "weekend at

bernie's" presidency. ♪♪ [ laughter ] >> i mean i guess this is toning it down. and for the record, it is totally unfair to compare joe biden's presidency to "weekend at bernie's." for one thing, bernie could pass as an alive person, okay. also, that movie got a sequel. >> perilous moment that would be funny if it wasn't so scary. one candidate, current president sick with covid, has calls from his own party to step aside are ratcheting up because the other, the autocrat is too great, too vast. we start with some of our friends in milwaukee at the convention. staff writer for "the atlantic" tim albert a is here. senior analyst matthew dowd is here with us in new york. former rnc spokesperson host of "the bulwark" podcast tim miller. tim albert, you had written some

pieces that when the history of these times are told, what will be in there starting with your -- with your susie wiles, chris acevedo reporting and j.d. vance reporting and dispatches from the convention. so congratulations to you. let's work backward, though. take me inside this moment as we await when has been described as somewhat changed donald trump. >> well, thank you for saying that, it's very kind of you. look, i think the degree to which donald trump has changed has been transformed by this near assassination just a few days ago will really get a glimpse at it tonight. you know, i have covered scores and scores of trump's speeches around the country. i have traveled with his campaign at loefrth the last eight years -- at length over the last eight years. i've seen him in different venues, in different moods, striking different tones.

i've never heard a tonight of humility, of reconciliation. i've never heard a tone of genuine reflection. and according to some people who are close to him and who have spoken with him since the events of last saturday, they have heard traces of that. they have heard hints of that, and i think they are genuinely curious as are the rest of us whether that will come through tonight in primetime as the nation waits to hear from the former president for the first time since he was nearly killed. but if past is at all prologue, i don't know that we should expect a dramatically different version of donald trump tonight. if we see one, then obviously that scrambles sort of everything we know about this campaign, this election, and even potentially the future of the country. but i think to say that we should expect that would be putting the cart way ahead of the horse. >> yeah, a cart that's never been spotted on the planet

before. tim alberta, your reporting is so important and revealing about how they see the race. and your reporting, the line that kept me up all night the day that i read it was that they are in their view, what they're seeing, is a landslide victory for donald trump. i wonder if you can sort of explain then the selection of j.d. vance, and that landslide is predicated on running against donald trump -- running against joe biden based on in your story and reporting. what happens to all those predictions and assumptions and even the j.d. vance pick if that ends up not being who they face in november? >> sure. i'll take the first part and just emphasize that the j.d. vance selection is the clearest indicator of the trump campaign confidence that they're not only winning this race but that they are running away with this race. they believe that they are headed toward a blowout in november. and the j.d. vance pick, as one person close to the president

described it, he said, look, the revolution is on. that's -- that's the only proper interpretation of taking a guy like j.d. vance who has some baggage and who's not necessarily the person that you would select if you're worried about appealing to the suburban moms outside of milwaukee and detroit and philly and phoenix and elsewhere. but j.d. vance does share at some core visceral level the sort of raw visceral populism that donald trump has been successful in selling to the masses, and trump sees in him an heir apparent to the maga empire here. however, it's clear that he would not have necessarily made this selection if we were in a really tight race. but the trump campaign from all of its modeling, the polling they've done, they believe that the race is already effectively over. now if that's the case, if they are -- if they have created a situation whereby midsummer that they've already buried their general election opponents in joe biden, then of course they

don't want to see the democrats change forces. in fact, what i reported from suzy wiles and chris as vladea after spending months with them, this trump campaign more than any other that i've covered is very specifically engineered to run a very specific race against a very specific opponent in joe biden. and at this point, the trump people are basically just praying that he doesn't leave the race because if he does, and if they have to go back to the drawing board, it would force them to have to fundamentally recalibrate everything they've done from the microtargeting, the modeling, the money that they're spending, where they're spending it, the digital campaign that they're running. everything that they have optimized in this campaign to date has been meant to defeat not a generic democrat but joe biden. and so they do not want to see him step aside. >> i mean, matt dowd, the revolution is on in the room, and for all the critiques of

president joe biden being in some sort of bubble -- i mean, the -- i understand the confident read, and i actually appreciate the confident posture having worked on campaigns myself. but the reality doesn't really match that. i mean, the race is fluid, the point on the calendar isn't really, you know, measure for your gold toilet done. nothing's done. there's no fat lady singing. there's a lot -- a lot of politics left to be played. and i wonder how much the public projection of strength and what tim alberta has been able to report may actually factor in either consciously or subconsciously to the very serious sort of pro-democracy alarm bells going off in the democratic coalition. >> i think you raised valid points. let me second tim alberta and what he's done being a fellow michigander and all the work he's done. bravo to him and everything he's done in the course of the last

few years. to me this -- this exuberance about whether or not they're going to win and by how much in a landslide made me think do they think joe biden won in a landslide in 2020? because they're not going win by seven million votes, popular votes. it's just not going to happen possibly. and they're saying they're going to take all the states back, so basically they -- what they're telling us is joe biden won in a landslide in 2020, and they think they're going to repeat that this time. this race is so -- still so fluid, though there are some parameters of it very set. i don't think this convention this week's going to move a single voter. i don't think it's going to cause any bump. the last two or three, four convention that's have been held back to 2012 haven't really moved anybody in the course of this. the only time people get moved if there's a surprise or something major happens in the course of the convention. that didn't happen with the j.d. vance pick. it was just ho, hum, here we go, another sycophant added on the ticket. what i think should worry the

trump campaign is since the debate they have basically had 21 or 22 straight positive days for themselves. basically they've had 21 or 22 positive straight days, and that's allowed them to stretch a lead to two or three points. that should be concerning to them about their candidate, and that should be concerning to them about their policies and their vision and what they're offering to the american public because in the course of a campaign in the summer, when you have 21 or 22 straight days that are beneficial to you and negative to the opposition, and you're only able to move the needle by two or three points in the course of the race shows, one, this race is going to be close, though i do think trump has an advantage today especially electoral college-wise, but this race is never going to stretch past the three or four-point margin scale. it's just not -- the way things are polarized, with how democrats are lined up, it's never going to be beyond three

or four points. and a three or four-point victory in a polarized environment is a significant victory. >> tim miller, let me bring you in on this. i know you had some audio challenges. let me bring you in on this question of the projection of strength rooted both in donald trump's actual standing in the race as the -- especially the battleground polls reflect it today, as well as all the assumptions that they've made. and tim albatter's excellent reporting -- alberta's excellent reporting about it being engineered for a run against president joe biden. that situation remains fluid. but one of the things that would happen if the democrats made a different calculation, if joe biden made a different decision is that the trump campaign would sort of be back at square one. >> absolutely. i think tim's reporting in "the atlantic" was spot on. you know, i think this kind of strong versus weak, alpha versus

beta thing is what the trump campaign is trying to do. if that got scrambled with their opponent, the energy that could be there for the opponent, the potential prosecutor going after him, you know, i do think that would change things and change their calculation. but there's one thing about tonight i think that's worth thinking about in this context because so far i've agreed with some of the consensus, punditry that's been crazy for the first three days, kind of normal crazy if you will. slightly toned down. it hasn't been like some of the weirdest stuff we've seen in the past from trump world. tonight is a little different than that, i think. if we look at this lineup and if you look at it through this frame that tim reported on about strength and how they tie that to this machismo. tonight is a lineup of -- like a freak show of bros on the lineup tonight. it's nothing like anyone convention in the past. and so that's different than the other night. you have tucker carlson who's been advancing extreme conspiracy theories.

he's like russia's great now, as tucker carlson. he did an interview with a gay prostitute that he thinks had an affair with obama. and he's doing racist great replacement theory and all this -- and january 6th trutherism. nonsense that tucker's doing. then you have -- they've added hulk hogan and dana white. dana white is a ufc guy. there's video of him slapping his wife very hard that's going around on the internet. hulk hogan was accused by his wife of domestic abuse. he denies that. but you know, again -- you have donald trump who has been found by juries of his peers to be liable for sexual abuse and who admitted on tape that he likes to grab women by the you know what against their will. that's their bro night tonight. conspiracies, sexual assaults, people that commit sexual assaults, and you know -- to me that feels like a big risk compared to -- the consensus of the other three nights is maybe they toned it back. this lineup isn't toning it

back. this is wwf freak show tonight. >> i don't know where to go with that. what's the followup question? be me. matt dowd, let me come to you. the assumption and -- and tim, you know, reveals this and writes this, the assumption is that they have something locked up. and i just wonder if you can pull on that assumption a little bit more. i mean, the big structural rug that could be pulled out of them most completely, right, would be a -- to run against somebody different. everything about the campaign is predicated on their whatever 77-year-old candidate looking young compared to an 81-year-old candidate. literally everybody else on the menu undermines that. but also this bet that they don't need anyone outside of the j.d. vance-donald trump coalition could also be scrambled. just take me inside the different ways the election could shift and how quickly. >> well, in my view -- and i

think i've written about this -- is if the democrats present at their convention a surprise movement in this race, then it fundamentally alters the nature of this race just fundamentally alters it completely. it goes from people not being as engaged, it goes from not having -- the democrats not having a good communicator right now on the top of the ticket to prosecute the case against donald trump, and also on behalf of what the biden administration has done in the last four years. and so i think if that happens, it fundamentally scrambles in the race, and i actually think when -- if that was to happen that the race would flip-flop completely from where it is today. it would mean that the democrats are now leading, and the democrats have an advantage in senate races, and the democrats have an advantage in house races. it would change the nature of it. i and you and everybody else here has no idea what's going to happen in this, but it shows the fluidity of the race based upon who is leading the ticket and

who is making the argument. and i would say here's an interesting thing i looked at today is the only numbers that have improved for biden of not being replaced in the last 30 days since the debate, you know what grew -- republicans. republicans now by larger margins don't want biden replaced. more democrats now, two-thirds of democrats want biden replaced. three quarters of independents want biden replaced. the only place biden has improved is among republicans. and why do republicans not want him replaced? because their entire campaign is set up, premised on joe biden leading the ticket. >> amazing. tim alberta, i want to come to you on something that you said to rachel maddow two nights ago about all the souls that have been sacrificed in service of donald trump. it seems that this confidence that he's inevitable has infected the sort of once rational minds of people like nikki haley. what happens if they're wrong?

>> what happens if they're wrong? it's interesting, i was talking with some folks earlier today who were delegates to the 2016 convention in cleveland. and that feels like a lifetime ago, of course, because what you had at that convention was a real nasty factional infighting between the pro-trump maga forces that were emerging at that stage, the never-trump forces that were trying to literally remove him or strip his delegates from him so that he could not become the nominee in 2016, and then a lot of people who were caught in the crossfire, unsure of what to make of trump. and i think the consensus that all of them had at that point was, well, he's not going to win in november, right? so either way, come november, once hillary clinton wins, we're going to have ourselves a big knock-down, drag-out fight about what the future of the party looks like. if you would have told those people then that donald trump would be the three-time nominee

come the summer of 2024, they would have thought that you were smoking crack. there's just no way they would have believed it. the reality now that all of these folks have had to accommodate themselves to, is not only is it donald trump's party, but with the selection of j.d. vance in particular, it's clear that the sort of america first, raw, angry, antagonistic populism that has animated so much of the republican party in recent years, it is here to stay. it is a durable phenomenon that will continue to shape the party in significant ways for at least the coming decade. and so i think anyone who wants to be even peripherally relevant in this republican party of the short to intermediate term, they've got to get on board. they don't have a choice otherwise. you see little pockets of resistance like the former vice president mike pence has formed this group that is meant to sort of serve as a bulwark of sorts with apologies to tim miller and

his colleagues. but serve as sort of a new -- a new version of the old heritage foundation trying to be a principled small government entity that can raise some money and do some white papers and push back on what they see as the excesses of the trump movement. but these guys, they can't really even get people to meet with them in broad daylight here in milwaukee because everybody recognizes the risk associated with being seen as disloyal to trump and to his party. >> i mean, this whole idea of risk, too, is something i want to deal with with all of you. to sneak in a break. no one's going anywhere. we'll have much more with our political panel in just a moment. also ahead for us, there are new revelation business j.d. vance's support, stated support for a nationwide abortion ban. one of the most prominent proponents of access to abortion health care. and the dangers posed by the republican ticket to our friends

and allies and partners in ukraine. we'll check in with our dear friend egovernor novakav in kyiv and get his reaction to the choice of such an outspoken opponent of aid to ukraine as the ex-president's new running mate. "deadline: white house" continues after a break. don't go anywhere. don't go anywhere. whoa! how'd you get your teeth so white? you gotta use the right toothpaste! dr. c?! ♪♪ not all toothpastes whiten the same. crest 3d white removes 100% more stains for a noticeably whiter smile. new personal best. crest.

with the selection of his running mate this week, donald trump is also trying to distract people. he wants to direct attention away from his record and his project 2025 plan to suggest that he and his running mate are

going to prioritize the middle class. but we are not buying it. >> we're back with tim miller and alberta and matt dowd. tim alberta, i want to read you the story that just moved in the spirit of political nightmare scenario for the trump campaign. "the new york times" reporting in the last few minutes, quote, several people close to president joe biden said on thursday they believe he's begun to accept the idea that he may not be able to win in november, may have to drop out of the race. bowing to the growing demands of many anxious members of his party, one of the people close to him warned that the president had not yet made up his mind to leave the race. but another said that, quote, reality is setting in, and that it would not be a surprise if mr. biden made an announcement soon endorsing vice president kamala harris as his replacement. an interview based -- an account based on interviews before people close to president joe biden. there's a piece in your story about how their plan may have

peaked too soon. i think as matt and tim and i know, that campaigns are not just about the right strategy but about implementing the strategy at the right time. kamala harris has successfully painted donald trump as being one and the same with project 2025. and i saw some reporting that the campaign manager saying that was a real headache for him. he should have thought of that before all of the trump people went to work for it and at it. tell me what this means and how this scrambles the circuits if the "times" reporting holds up. >> well, first of all, i mean, the president can't delay this decision much longer. this has got to happen in the next three or four days, according to democrats i've spoken with. just the clock is really ticking here. they're running out of time. so if this is going to happen it's got to happen quickly. if it does happen, i want piggyback on the point that tim merl was making in the previous segment which is that, look, the democratic base right now is just entirely lacking for intensity. when i talk with democrat

elected officials in the battleground states, they tell me the same story over and over and over again. they can't find anybody to come out and volunteer for them to do the work that's necessary in a field operation because there's just no enthusiasm. i mean, we hear all the time about the cliche enthusiasm gap in politics. i've never seen an enthusiasm gap like the one we're witnessing in the summer of this election year. i've heard horror stories from people on the ground in michigan, in pennsylvania, in arizona, about just striking out time and time again as local democratic party chapters, county chapters have tried to get people to phone bank, get mail going, knock on doors, they can't find people. to tim's point, if suddenly biden were to be replaced by kamala harris, by anyone else, the jolt of immediate energy, enthusiasm, donor cash that would follow would, you would think, in some fundamental ways scramble the race for both parties because, you know, look,

donald trump -- i think it's crazy to consider the fact that as of eight weeks ago donald trump and his campaign, they were looking at being outraised and outspent in this campaign by a margin of two to one, maybe three to one. they were getting trounced in the finance department. after his conviction and all the money they've raised in the immediate aftermath, donald trump entered the month of july with more cash on hand in his account than biden did. so now the two campaigns are operating at financial parity and that is a percent of the reason the trump folks -- part of the reason the trump folks are confident and even cocky coming into this convention. but if biden were to step aside and if democrats had a new standard bearer atop the ticket, you've got to expect that they would see a massive, historic fundraising surge of their own which is one reason among many that so many elected officials at this point are pressuring the president to step aside. >> tim miller, we should say again that only joe biden will make this decision. but one person trying to

influences that decision -- influence that decision, jamie raskin. the latest democrat to publicly call on the president to consider passing the torch to another candidate was representative jamie raskin of maryland. a key member of the house committee that investigated the attack on the capitol on january 6th. a letter he sent to mr. biden on july 6th and obtained by "the new york times" thursday compared the 81-year-old commander in chief to a tiring baseball pitcher and urged him to consult with fellow democrats about whether to continue his campaign. quote, everything we believe in is on the line in the next 4.5 months, mr. raskin wrote. it's been reported that that same case was argued by nancy pelosi, congressman schiff made that point in an op-ed. congressman jim himes made that argument in an op-ed and interviews on the night after the nato summit officially ended. tim miller, your thoughts just on what tim alberta just reported about the jolt in

energy and volunteers, in urge see and unity -- urgency and unity and donor dollars. >> on the raskin point and rackin, adam schiff i would throw in there, these two men know the stakes. they've been in the wars, they understand the threat that donald trump poses about as well as anybody out there. and nancy pelosi has done this, by the way. i think that should give her a lot of credibility. she did step aside and allowed hakeem jeffries to take over the caucus and to huge success really if you look at the democratic success with that handoff. so those are people with just unimpeachable credibility on this matter. tim talked about the -- you know, the money, the ground game. i think that's important. the enthusiasm gap is just -- is enormous right now. it's a grand canyon, i agree with that. i care less about the money. i think money's overrated in presidential campaigns. everybody has 100% name i.d. in presidential campaigns, this isn't a house race, tv ads have

limited value, but they have some value. what i look at, though, is just from my background is the media and the messaging. i think for kamala harris, whether she's running as vp, running as president, on the issue of abortion and on the issue of law and order. this race gets totally shaken up by her being able to go on offense against j.d. vance and possibly donald trump on those issues, a prosecutor versus a convicted felon, a woman that's protecting people's rights to their own body versus an old man that's trying to take it away, particularly in the j.d. vance case, or the man that wants to take away from women the right to leave marriages if they're violent apparently, and the right to their own body even if they've been raped by a family member to the j.d. vance position. i think kamala harris is well positioned to take that argument on those two issues against the -- the current republican ticket in a way that is a little bit hampered by the current democratic ticket.

>> matt dowd, quick last word. >> well, i would just say the one thing that we realize is that the pro-biden coalition is much smaller than the pro-democracy anti-trump coalition. and that's the situation we're in and why these democrats are trying to get joe biden to step back because they understand if it's all about joe biden, then the democrats lose in the course of this. and to me, kamala harris basically inherits all of the benefits of all of the positive that the biden administration has done for four years without the negative of being held back by a question of competency and age. and that's what i think changes the nature of this race. >> tim, matt, tim, thank you for having this -- this really important rather excruciating moment in our politics, but really important conversation. i'm grateful to all of you. when we come back, if donald trump wanted to pick a running mate in tune with suburban women, he could hardly have made a worse choice than j.d. vance.

new information is coming to light about just how extreme j.d. vance is on the issue of reproductive freedom. reaction to that from amanda zarowski, lead plaintiff against the abortion ban in texas. she's our next guest. she's our next guest . i need indeed. indeed you do. when you sponsor a job, you immediately get your shortlist of quality candidates, whose resumes on indeed match your job criteria. visit indeed.com/hire and get started today.

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in the womb to have the right to life. i think two wrongs don't make a right. we're effective run in this country via the democrats, via our corporate oligarchs by childless cat ladies who are misses rabble in their -- miserable in their lives and choice they've made and want to make the rest of the country miserable, too. i think there's something comparable between abortion and slavery. >> so all that was available. we didn't unearth any of that. all that was available and known to donald trump and his campaign, and they picked him anyway. why? it's hard to believe that j.d. vance could be any more extreme on the single issue of women and reproductive freedom than what you heard in those clips. we don't even have the time to play the one clip where he says women should stay in their violent marriages. he said that. when it comes to trump's maga acolytes, there's always more. yesterday even more sound was uncovered of j.d. vance, this time openly calling for and urging a national abortion ban.

he's not only extreme on women's health and reproductive freedoms, it's racist, anti-semitic, and all around shocking. take a listen. >> i certainly would like abortion to be illegal nationally. i'm sympathetic to the view that like, okay, look, here's the situation, say roe versus wade is overruled. ohio bans abortion in 2022 or -- say 2024, and then you know, every day george soros sends a 747 to columbus to load up disproportionately black women to get them to go have abortions in california. of course the left will celebrate this as a victory for diversity. it's like if that happens, do you need some federal response to prevent it from happening? i'm pretty sympathetic to that actually. >> not much to say, right? he said it all. that was j.d. vance calling for a national abortion ban, as well

as laws to keep women from leaving their anti-abortion states, a state with an abortion ban in place, not letting them leave. going to put chips in them like they do for dogs? that's j.d. vance's views on women in america, in the year 2024. joining our coverage is amanda zarowski. she was the lead plaintiff in the lawsuit challenging the texas abortion ban and a reproductive rights advocate. thank you for being here. you couldn't make up someone who sort of put the eclamation point of donald trump with roe versus wade and the picks to the supreme court. >> yeah. thank you for having me, first and foremost. it is truly remarkable -- i had to fact check myself because i thought i was on some rabbit hole of fake news. it is unbelievable that these are things that he has said multiple times, over and over again. i just -- i don't understand. i don't get it. >> you know, and there are not a

lot of -- there's no data that shows that even republican women support what he's for. i mean, the radical bans that eliminate exceptions for the health or life of the mother are opposed by 93% of all americans. the cases of rape and incest are opposed by 88%, 90% of all americans. they are -- they are -- they are numbers that don't work for republicans. why do you think trump picked him? >> you know, it really boggles the mind. if he was trump's pick to try to appeal to suburban women, i think they certainly missed the mark. i'm a suburban woman, most of my family are suburban women. and let me tell you, he doesn't appeal to a single one of us, and i don't think he's appealing to many women across this country. >> amanda, what is the real sort of lived experience of these brutal, brutal bans?

>> well, as you know for my personally, i almost lost my life as a result of the ban in texas. my future fertility is permanently compromised, and as i'm out on the campaign trail traveling around the country, meeting folks who live in states with similar bans, my story is not unique. i am one of hundreds if not thousands who has been in a similar situation, and it's just devastating. on top of that, you know, we're seeing health care deserts as physicians are leaving their states because they don't want to practice in an area where there's bans. and that's putting a real burden on surrounding states. we see this -- this block in the southeast, right, of many states that have bans. so those folks still need reproductive care. so what they're doing is they're traveling to nearby states where they can get care. now that puts a burden on health care providers in those states because they have this influx of folks. so even in states where abortion is legal, it's still having an

enormous impact. >> you know, there was -- some news reporting that ahead of the convention trump sought to change some of the language around abortion. and it's always about marketing for him. we know where he stands. but in picking vance it seems to undermine even trump's own reptilian awareness that his views on abortion are unpopular. how is the conversation, how are the politics around the republicans' extreme positions playing out in your travels and on the campaign trail? >> well, we're seeing across the country that folks recognize that trump is a liar, right? he has proven this to us over and over again. he's done it again with his vp pick. he has shown us his cards, and i think this attempt to distance himself from project 2025 or say that his views on abortion are not as extreme as he once said is just a ploy to tell the american people what he thinks they want to hear because he

knows that his actual views that he's laid out for us and his plan that he's laid out for us is wildly unpopular. but by picking j.d. vance we know that in his vice president pick he's got a rubber stamper, right, who's going to approve these extreme measures that trump wants to and has told us is going to implement if he's re-elected. >> you know, pundits continue to underestimate the power of taking away a right that women had in this country for 50 years. and the danger it puts all women, including folks like yourself who desperately wanted your daughter willow to come into this world. how do you think the -- the issue has sort of moved beyond and accelerated beyond our ability to ask questions or to poll test these issues? >> well, i think what we're seeing is people are recognizing that this goes beyond the scope of just reproductive rights and

reproductive justice. i think people are understanding that these are basic human freedoms that are guaranteed to us as americans that are being stripped away from us, and i don't think the extreme republican agenda is going to stop with reproductive freedom. we've seen that in project 2025. we know they're coming for more of our rights, and i think people aren't going to put up with it. >> when you look at sort of the state of the race -- and i don't know how much, you know -- i imagine you're a bit of a political junkie. but the battleground polls are ominous, and it's going to be a matter of getting the facts about the differences in project 2025 out there. project 2025 has now seeped into culture with a big help from taraji p. henson. there are -- it's out there. how confident are you that it everyone knows the facts, if everyone knows the stakes that democrats should feel very confident about their prospects in november? >> well, i'm very encouraged

that we are giving so much attention to project 2025 because, frankly, it is terrifying. the more we talk about it and the more people understand what it means and what it wouldn't mean for americans if trump makes his way back to the white house, i think the likelihood of him getting elected is just going to shrink because this -- this outline, this agenda is absolutely terrifying. as far as the polls, i don't really pay attention to them. it's a snapshot in time. i don't think they're indicative of what's going to happen in november. we know it's a long race. we know it's going to be a close race, but the polls are just a snapshot in time. i think in this election between the biden/harris campaign and the trump/vance campaign you have a choice, a very stark choice in two extremely different vision for our future. on the one hand you've got trump and vance who want to take us backwards in time, wants to take away our rights. on the other hand you've got biden and harris who want to move us forward and want to

protect us as human beings and as american citizens. >> amanda zarowski, it was a pleasure to get to talk to you, especially as this campaign comes into focus. thank you for spending some time with us today. >> thanks for having me back. when we come back, moscow couldn't be happier with donald trump's selection of j.d. vance as his vp nominee. that is, of course, awful news for our friends and allies in ukraine. we'll get reaction from a dear friend in kyiv after a short break. iv after a short break.

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with so much hanging in the balance here at home, it's easy to forget our allies and adversaries across the globe are closely watching. that's especially for our friends in ukraine. with a disgraced ex-president has to say about that topic in a few hours may be of some interest. so, too, will be his running mate, jd vance, who has admitted he doesn't care what happens to ukraine one way or another, end quote. joining us is former advisory for president zelenskyy, igor is back. how are you? and how the is family?

>> i'm back in kyiv for a few days, incredibly tired. i'm with my family, with only about four hours of electricity a day. we have it good here, compared to others. trust me, you have it good there, much better than in kyiv. >> tell me how the fight is going. >> well, it's as brutal as it was two years ago, a year ago. it's -- nothing is changing. you know, the result of our soldiers isn't changing. unfortunately because of the delay with the military aid and with, you know, the world's attention dissipating, it's getting more difficult by the day. russia -- russia's fighting cowardly, not only on the front

lines, but you've heard the news about the children's hospital bombed in kyiv. i was in kyiv that day. it's just horrible. what goes through my mind is if you look up the social media outlets of jd vance or president trump, nothing it there. you can send a cruise missile on the roof of the children's hospital, and nothing. >> what does it say to you that donald trump picked jd vance, a vocal opponent of not fighting alongside or friends and eye lies, but simply supporting with military aid ukraine's efforts in the war against russia. >> well, you know, i always use humor as my shield. first of all, you know, thank got it's not tucker carlson. it could be worse. let's remain optimistic.

i also have, you know, as you mentioned in the beginning, he doesn't care what happens to ukraine one way or another. i hate pulling out my "what would jesus say" card. they're all christians or claim to be, and i cannot imagine jesus says i don't care what happens one way or another, yet they claim to be christian. last, but not least, i repain optimistic, this is a man who once compared donald trump to hitler. now he chose to work for him. jesus chose the cross. on the other hand, you know, if -- that's how quickly he changes his mind, maybe, you know -- >> what are the stakes for ukraine in november's election here in this country? >> well, it's not only for

ukraine, but for the free world, i would say. look, what worries me at the moment, you know me, i'm a bit close to american politics. i think it's unethical po me to go into a deep analysis, so i will keep it safe, but what worries me, i didn't get answers to your questions, are your beliefs strong enough long enough to achieve your goals? i opened up twitter, and everyone is fighting, you know -- the russian bots have it, great, they're happy, but everyone is fighting. the question of biden remains or -- you have to remember, that's not the real choice. the real choice is what happens to women's bodies, whether it's women or somebody else, some

random guy? how do you keep your democracy? whether dictatorships rule the world for the next 4, 10, 25 years? those are the real choices. united we stand, divided we fall, is an american saying, and i pray to god that you remember it. >> that's the most powerful add month ya admonition. last word. >> we have electricity about four to six hours a day out of 24 in kyiv. it's nearly 100 degrees fahrenheit outside. air conditioning is considered a luxury, actually frowned upon,

yet we're fatigued. we hate it. at the same time, everyone keeps fighting, everyone keeps donating. everyone remembers you might dislike zelenskyy or his prime minister, or the soldier sitting next to you on the bus. that's not about that. the choice is universal. whether it's freedom or, you know, slavery, whether it's life or death. you should pay close attention to how it works. that's what you're going to face in november. >> wow. as usual, you take it all down to exactly what matters. igor, thank you. another break for us. we'll be right back. another break for us we'll be right back. i'm a flight nurse on a helicopter that specializes in trauma. i've been doing flight nursing for 24 years. i had a fear that i wouldn't be able to keep up.

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