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eastern for special coverage. right now ari melber, joist reid and jen psaki start the next hour. ♪♪ welcome to on you special coverage. you are watching this final night of the republican national convention. you can see the festivities outside, you can see the delegates starting to fill in for tonight's address by rep nom kneel donald trump. i'm ari melber, along with joy reid and jen psaki for the final night of the convention. there will be some trump administration efforts in an effort to tap culture by hulk hogan and kid rock. we are through the bulk of these speeches this week.

they have addressed unite and amid the reports of toning down rhetoric, that's a project that's not prevented slashing attacks on the democratic ticket. >> the democrats' economy is of, by and for illegal aliens. >> if you are looking for racism today, you find it in cities run by democrats. >> the sexualization and indocket runation of our children. >> the democrats have handed over control of my stays, arizona's border, to the drug cartels. >> today their policies are a clear and present danger for america. >> if they can come for me, if they can come for donald trump, be careful. they will come for you. >> send them back.

[ cheers and applause ] [ chanting ] >> you can see the type of remarks do show republicans on offense. the convention has also hit some other note. in jd vance's debut, he talked of hope and god. he opened with a somber reference to the assassination attempt. as he spoke about it, nominee trump looked on. vance encouraged americans to watch that terrible attack again and behold what he called trump's defiant reaction, which tees up his first speech since that failed assassination. this address is significant and historic, a former president, who is extremely close to an assassin's bullet and death,

returning to address his party and the nation. that is true, regardless of one's views of trump, his policies or politics. it's true even for critics who note he has not always extended sympathy or proper gravity after political violence targeting others. that kind of debate is about whether other people uphold these civic and peaceful traditions, whether we do that regardless of what others do. the at the is ultimately about us. for those who wants to continue to uphold our civic values and peace and justice, it's a different path. they are not like us. that's the serious context for tonight's address, in a nation that's lived through so many attempted and completed assassinations. as for the politics, if we step back from that very serious

reality we have lived there for the weekend, the rnc is reaching the crescendo. the two nominees really could not be in two more different positions, something that rachel and our panel of anchors was discussing tonight. biden worries about his delegates revolting, resulting in a push for him to drop out of race as he isolates for a covid today. there are reports stating the democrat senate and house leaders have both urged president biden to now drop out of the race, in extraordinary one-on-one meetings that have been reported. that means unless president biden himself was the person leaking this, it means those democrats are now escalating a previously private coordinated plan to push president biden out at this late stage. there's also a rare leak suggesting that obama himself

thinking that biden is now likely to lose, and must consider dropping out for the good of the party and the country. that hits hard inside a white house where biden wu backed up obama, and it's the kind of move now leaking that may or may not -- we're just covering the fact for you -- may or may not impact president biden's thinking time. the primaries are over. right now tonight, the public fact remains that president biden is the nominee, and if that were to change, he is the only person who can change that. this pressure is not designed to alienate president biden. it is designed, now by schumer, jeffries, pelosi, partially possibly obama, it's designed to ask joe biden to be the first president ever to quit a campaign this late until these circumstances.

it's the toughest public push since those early days right after the debate, and it's a remarkable contrast tonight as trump readies his return. >> tonight is the big night. >> joe biden off the campaign trail, but the pressure isn't going away from inside his own party. >> donald trump's acceptance speech has promised a message of unity. >> as the white house -- people went nuts. >> these number of timeser are devastating, yet he's still digging in. >> the -- >> we ride or died with donald john trump to the end. >> it's not about the hopes or expectations that they have it in the bag. >> the only shot up is lit real take the board and throw it up in the air. >> all eyes or jd vance. >> the democrats can't even fun fit their own white house. >> the reason they're having the

conversation is the threat of donald trump. >> barack obama has privately expressed concerns about biden's candidacy. [ sighing ] >> that's a lot. some serious and scary developments, some baroque, some with intrigue, there are people noting how literally unbelievable this feels, like, can you believe this? like, is this a movie? or as think say nowadays, is this a simulation? some are coping through humor, one writer joking, this series finalist of america is getting weirder and weirder. these are the kind of tweets and memes going around. i have one more. a magazine writer saying, if the

past search days were an episode of "the west wing," it would be panned for being too over the top. that sounds about right. there have been many absurd plot twists on top of plot twists, and much of this now packed into this week, and it's only thursday. not thursday night, not thursday primetime. it's really just the end of thursday on the east coast, as we head to the rnc's time night. this is not a simulation, not a movie, as best i can tell. this is not "the west wing." there is a debate over the real west wing, and the choses america has, as there may be in the days to come, for who should occupy the real west wing. we have two experts with us, sometimes we go out to reporters. we have many lined up. we're going to get to them. joy and jen are here. jen, i tried to cover some of

what's going on. that's ohm some of it. what did we mitt? what do you think is in the mind of the president? you served president biden. >> i think it's important for everyone to understand, nobody knows what's in the mind of joe biden, except for joe biden and a handful of people he's talking with. there are things we know from excellent reporting. we know about the position of well-respected people, like former speaker pelosi, chuck schumer, hakeem jeffries. we've seen some polls, though not all of the polling that's been referenced. we don't know where all the delegates are. the money is reportedly drying up, but we don't know where joe biden is. ultimately this would start with him making a decision. my understanding from people talking close to him is he's not made a decision yet.

that's important for people to know and understand. >> i'm going to draw you out a bit. i don't mean to be annoying. >> you're not annoying. we've known each other a long time. >> when you say he's not made a decision, that opens the door more than what biden allies and his own staff were saying last week, up until yesterday, he's already made a decision that it's over, but that sounds more open than a week ago. >> i think that's true, but the reporting i think again we should rely on the excellent reporting, we could be mindful of anonymous source saying torment or three to five days. some of that may be reflective of what people want. they have a right to have a position or timeline they want. the dynamics have clearly shifted. there are factors here that including things were frozen, of course, during the horrific shooting of former president trump. things were frozen a bit,

efforts within the party to move joe biden. it felt like nobody knew what to do for a couple days. they picked up again. that's another shift that's change. we have seen a shift in terms of intel conversations becoming public, even though they've been going on for a period of time, an openness to reviewing polling on kamala harris. another thing i would note is that there are people in the democratic party -- it's a big umbrella. there's lots of people who want different things. that's one of the reasons the party is great. there are people who may not want kamala harris. everyone i have talked to, she is the option that anybody is talking about for a range of reasons, including she's been very effective in prosecuting the case against trump. she's very effective on abortion rights she also could take in the entire operation as well as all of the money. the other factor here, i think

is, if and when the president decide to not run, and we don't know if and when he will make that decision. i will reiterate that. there's a lot that needs to has been. if you're in the biden campaign right now, if you're on the convention team, on the campaign staff, there's always contingency planning. everybody loves contingency planning. you plan for scenarios that will never happen, right? but you need to align that. as you both know, you have a moment where it's former president biden, his report and what he's doing, what it means, and then very quickly it goes to what is next? >> the other piece i would add is all of the fantasy scenarios in this simulation or episode orb the worst version of "the west wing" ever -- it could not

get picked up by netflix or anyone else -- anyway, there are rules in the democratic party. there is a structure to the way you become the nominee. >> sure. >> a lot of the fantasies in op-ed have nothing to do with those rules, number one. there's no magical way to replace joe biden. as you have perfectly said, he can replace himself. there's a magical way to do it. there's a delegate process, it's orderly, you can't change it, by the way, if you did try to change it, be sure republicans would use that as an opportunity to sue the democratic party. the second piece is of the candidates being floated around, only one of the people's names have every actually functionally done a job close to the president of the united states. only one person has been sent to the middle east to discuss with

world leaders the day after gaza. only one person on that list has been sent to europe to meet with world leaders to advance the agenda of the united states and of this administration. only one person is the one that was on the phone with alexei navalny's widow when he died, whatever murky way inside a gulag in russia. only one person has been sent to central america to represent the united states on border policy, taking all of the hits for that. only one person has come close to functionally doing the job of president of the united states. that is kamala harris. she is, per the constitution and per 80 million voters in the year 2020, the vice president of the united states. so, all of the other people who would have to be vetted, vetted as political candidates, she's been vetted as the closest thing to the president of the united

states that we have besides joe biden. she's the only one. so, all of the other options don't make functional sense from that point of view. it's not that you would be setting aside a black woman. many black women, 1400 of them, said you cannot skip this woman. it would send disrespect to the most loyal part of the democratic base, black women, who voted the highest percentage of americans, 90% for democrats. set that aside. set aside you would then be asking groups to go door to court for a random candidate you picked out of a magical hat that doesn't align with the actual rules of the democratic party, and then you guys go and sell that door to door. find a way to get black women to

vote. that will not happy. second of all -- said aside you would be dissing the first black women -- that would send a message to women, african americans, quite a bad message for the democratic party, but again, forget all of that. she's actually doing the closest thing to the actual job. she's the only person who's been vetted to be president literally per the constitution. >> for hardcore viewers, when rachel maddow blew through the breaks, no surprise, i'm no rachel maddow. >> none of us are. i was told to take a break, but the fact it's a hot bench is this is a lot of big news. we're going to get jen psaki's other side, and rumbling about whether president biden remains

a nominee or not, a former party chair dnc party chair, howard dean joins me coming up. stephanie ruhle is live on the rnc floor. also jen psaki's response to joy reid. we're with you for two hours tonight, as we look as extremism as well on the floor of this party's convention. >> there is a religious war going on in this country. it's a adult rule war, we must take back our cities and take back our culture, and take back our country. culture, and take our country. if you have chronic kidney disease you can reduce the risk of kidney failure with farxiga. because there are places you'd like to be. farxiga can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract, or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection

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♪♪ so, we're seeing here footage of the republican national convention where former president donald trump will be speaking later this evening. we're, of course, back with special coverage of the last night of that convention. let's go to stephanie ruhle. she's been on the floor since yesterday. a big speech coming up tonight. there have been lots of reports about him editing the speech, verbally dictating lines in the speech. there were reports about him changing the speech to be unifying. what are you expecting? and what are people on the floor

and in the room you're in, hoping to hear? >> i'm listening to you all, and what i hear you talking about is joe biden's physical health, the health of his campaign, what's happening, the opposite of what i'm hearing here. absolutely no one is talking about those things, why? they want all attention to be on donald trump. they want joe biden to be his opponent. they said a weakened, sick joe biden. that's interesting. what's more interesting is the other thing they're not talking about is their policies. you have to wonder why. they are not talking about cutting taxes for the rich or extending the corporate tax cut. they are not talking about the crowning achievement, which is overturning roe v. wade. we're not talking about ending support for ukraine. the question is, why? the answer is those polling that

stands for are not popular with the majority of the american people. obviously the people here will vote for trump, win, lose or draw, but there's not enough to win the presidential election. president biden nose this, jd vance knows this, so the question is are you get to educate people to say their pop ulist message, the blue-collar worker message isn't reflective of what the policies will be. news flash, the republican party does not support unions. so my question is going to be, is there every going to be a connection between the message that -- >> it's a big question. stephanie, you've been thinking about this. you did quite a fact check this morning on jd vance, and we'll have you next hour to go through

that. despite trump trying to project a kinder,endler maga -- >> the former president trump loses, it will be why? >> it will be why? well, i would say cheating. >> we've got to campaign and vote like we are in last place, because the democrats are going to cheat. >> democrats sinically decided they wanted votes from illegals. >> we never want what happened in 2020 to happen again. keep your eyes open. these people want to cheat. they do cheat, and frankly it's the only thing they do well. >> joining us now is former republican governor john kasich. he is not at the convention by choice. so, governor, i just want to start with this big lie hanging over the party, hanging over a lot of what we have seen at the convention that was just in that introduction there. there have been reports that

some of trump's advisers have been telling him, stop talking about that the big lie. i doubt he has that self-control, but what are you expecting in that regard in the speech tonight? >> it will be interesting, jen. will we see a different donald trump? he's been talking about love and talking about compassion. you know, a lot of people are skeptical about it. biblically speaking, there was a guy named saw out there persecuting christians on a damascus road, with a rethinking of everything, and he became st. paul, writing most of the new testament. even when paul was transformed, people didn't believe it until they saw what he did. if trump is going to talk about love, unity, all that other stuff, which is a great thing if he would do it, we have to see if that's for real. we'll see it over time. words are one thing, actions are

another. they're playing it down the middle. i do think they are very unsettled by the prospect of joe biden not being the candidate. i wanted to ask you about this unity, though, the republican party is unified. there are a lot of people who are not there, including many people who worked for president biden in the past, who had quite critical things to is a, there are republican officials who aren't there.

by and large, it's been pretty good. they have controlled some of the rhetoric. what's going to be really interesting is what kind of convention will the democrats have? i've had democrats call and ask my opinion on certain things. if they go to a convention, maybe not totally wide open, but exciting and different, that would be something that would be much different from what you're seeing with the republicans right now.

>> ith think there's been some speakers upsetting the applecart with their rhetoric, so to speak. you mentioned a moment ago there's unlast night governor dewine was quite muted they have not been talking about sleepy joe and other comments they make. what does that tell you? >> i think they've been attacking kamala harris quite a bit. look, they really believe if biden is the candidates, it will be a repeat of the debate where they're very confident that they can win. the uncertainty about him being replaced by camera harris or through some process -- it's

interesting, you've even heard jim clyburn talking about a mini convention, or something like that -- that uncertainty gets republicans very nervous. you mean, they're not going to come with biden? who are they going to come with? what is the messaging? what will they say about us? i think, jen, there's concern in the republican party about what might happen in the next few weeks. i don't believe that biden will be the nominee. i said about a month ago on the air there was great reason to think he wouldn't be. i think now this is about preserving his legacy, taking himself off it, giving an opportunity for someone else. when you have schumer, pelosi, jeffries, and these candidates like schiff. when you have these people, they realize their future depends on this. the pressure is building. i think at some point he will actually leave. it will be interesting to see how and what the process is once he leaves, and who they turn to.

if it's kamala harris, who does he pick as a running mate? there will be interest in that, different from what we've seen in this election. >> john kasich, thank you. coming up, more on the melting pressure we're all seeing on president biden. howard dean will join us next. n. howard dean will join us next. ♪♪ it finds payments i already make like, insurance, streaming, phone, to build my credit, and it's from the experian, the credit experts. more ways to build credit. download the experian app.

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♪♪ just hours before donald trump accepts the gop nomination, there's growing pressure on president biden. take a look. >> president biden is telling alous that biden needs -- ser his near to consider the vibrancy of the candidacy. >> hakim jeffries, basically the same thing. >> reports he was more reseptember inning about accepting aside. polling shows he cannot defeat donald trump. they're finally realizing it's a when, not if. >> we're working through scenarios where he's not the top of the ticket.

washington is out from earlier in the day. pelosi has told house democrats that biden may soon be persuaded to exit the race. joining me is howard dean, governor of vermont. governor dean, lucky to have you. you did spend some time as the chair of the democratic national committee, so i want to talk to you about the rules. a lot of the talk about joe biden not being the nominee belies a very important point, which is there's a process. if somehow president biden were to step aid aside, let's say today. what would then happen to the nearly 3900 delegates that are pledged to him, but haven't formally voted for him. >> in theory they could vote for whoever they wanted to, as long as they were nominated. i agree with your conclusions

the last half hour, that kamala harris would be the nominee. there's a lot of reasons for that. first of all, she's doing better in the polls. secondly, she has the experience, as you pointed out, but thirdly, she would have immediate control over the biden/harris money that's available for campaigning. while you could get around that problem, it would be a bit awkward. all the money would have to go to dnc, and then there's restrictions about coordination, so forth. >> so there was supposed to be a virtual vote of the delegates perhaps as early as the 21st of july. members who want president biden to step aside pushed to delay that vote thinking they would get more time if they had more time to persuade him, and they wouldn't mind, to be honest, of having an open convention.

if, in fact, president biden were to go through the process of getting the delegates to vote for him, and he got the 1976 delegates, and effectively was the nominee, does that give him more leverage if he wanted to confer his delegates, or at least ask his delegates to support one person in particular? >> i don't think it does even after the vote is made, the president just doesn't have the choice of naming his own successor. look, i signed that letter with terry mcauliffe and donna brazil, to move of a virtual vote. it had nothing to do with keeping biden in the nomination, it had to do with the skull buttery that the republicans will try. you know donald trump cheats. he always accuses others of what he's doing, that is cheating. they would sue is in ha

heartbeat if there were any weakness in our nominating process. so the idea of having the virtual vote so republicans in ohio who have threatened to cut off the election process after the 7th of august would be able to go to court. i have no doubt the republicans would do that. they've been in court for four years trying to overturn trump's last loss. >> you make an excellent point. i'm looking at a letter that laying that out exactly. >> right. >> not only ohio, where the republican governor signed a bill, they still have a 90-day process -- >> exactly. >> -- that's unclear in whether or not they could make the deadline and whether that would other republican states to at least attempt to try and say, well, we're going to keep any democratic name off the ballot. so, given all of that, what do you make of this campaign to try to convince president biden to try to step aside, but also not

being open about saying who they want? people aren't being specific. also, there is some -- and i've talked to plenty of members, who have definitely been recipients of a campaign to have it not be camera harris. >> look, that's the problem with all of this stuff, joy. one of the things i love about the media is you're going to take the most outrageous stories. as you we know in politics, those who say don't know, and those who know don't say. so all of this gas baggery, including congressmen who thrive in gas baggery -- first of all, i think president biden has done a terrific job in the last four years. the only person that can decide to leave is biden. if the polls show it can't win, it would be an act of great

statesmanship to step aside, and give the chance to someone who might. this is a matter of his control. only he can make this decision. there's a lot of stuff in the papers today about who's talking to him, who's making what suggestions, nobody really knows the answer to say that. it's all conject tur and whispering. we just have to wait and see. >> governor clean, i couldn't agree more. there's a lot of people talking to the president. we'll have to wait and see. there's been fewer people in the weeds with all of these roles than you have. i was reading about the state ballot deadlines. virginia, washington state, a lot of them are in the early days of the convention.

we're trying to understand what this all could mean. logistically, could there be an open convention fight, where we don't know who the nominee is before the first day of the convention? >> i wouldn't advise that. first of all, i can't why understand why the dnc put the convention so late. these deadlines have been known for a long time, for years. my personal opinion is we ought to be having it now or next week. i just don't understand what happened, given this is the law in all these states. we know republicans like to try to cheat, as trump has been doing the last four years. so, we're not going to have an open convention. we'll have either joe biden or kamala harris will get the nomination. that's going to be up to joe biden. he has every legal right to be the nominee. he pointed out himself he has

won the votes of most of the delegates. he is the one who gets to decide that. >> governor howard dean, thank you. thanks for all of your experts 'tis. we'll be relying on it in the days and weeks ahead. still ahead how the trump/vance ticket is appealing to a billionaire base. aling to a billionaire base. your gut is like a garden growing both good bacteria and bad. that balance is key to a healthy gut environment. benefiber's plant-based prebiotic fiber gently nourishes the good bacteria, working with your body to help your gut, and you, flourish. effortlessly. every day. grow what feels good. with benefiber.

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if they can come for me, if they can come for donald trump, be careful. they will come for you. i am your wake-up call. peter navarro there speaking last night. our whole panel is still here. we've heard from the former dnc chair tonight, we've had heard from reporters, we've heard from each other. now, as we prepare to hear from donald trump after that horrific assassination attempt over the weekend,trump's campaign manage in 2016. welcome. how are you doing tonight? >> i'm doing great. how are you guys? for i'm good. i want to get to the speech and to mr. navarro who spoke. first on the news of the

evening. you are a trump ally. you have run a trump campaign with your colleagues. you usually have to figure out who you're running against. that's campaign 101. what are you picking up on the ground out there? what can you tell us is the view? are people aware of and following the intrigue on the democratic side, and do you think right now the trump campaign is preparing to face off with biden or increasingly preparing for an alternative? >> there's been so much coverage on it obviously by you and others, and it's on social media, so i think a lot of the crowd is aware of the talk. and the possible timelines that are being reported. but for my colleagues back in the campaign itself, i'm sure they're probably not worried too much about the name on the bumper sticker because the policies aren't going to change. i don't see kamala harris, gavin newsom, josh shapiro, gretchen whitmer suddenly saying drill, baby, drill, and lowering the price of gas or doing something

for the border. so the plan, what they were doing to run against joe biden, will be the plan they run against any of these democrats because it's the same bad policy. >> you're the strategic communications guy, so i don't know if you'll tell 100% truth, but my job is to ask the question. do you think harris could be a stronger, weaker, or same level foe as the current president? >> she's about the same level as the current president because not only do we have the policies, obviously, she's had struggles in the past in her own campaign for the white house in 2020. didn't make it to iowa. she's got those issues to overcome. she's also starting with one hand tied behind her back, meaning you're going to find out you're the presidential nominee 100 days before the election. so there's a lot of challenges there that she would have to overcome. and she's already coming an uphill climb because the map clearly favors donald trump right now. >> all right, wanted to get you

on that. it's big in the news. we talked about what the messaging has been and we'll keep an eye on the former president tonight. one area where the rnc may be on defense or is ceding ground is that regard extraordinary development of convict peter navarro leaving prison in the morning to stock the stage at night. i'm curious how you explain that or what message it gives to the rest of the country. that's a party that used to talk a lot about law and order and said they were on the side of police and prosecutors, not convicts. you have to admit that's a big change. i'm going to show a little bit of navarro last night and the old conventions. take a look. >> this morning, i did walk out of a federal prison. in miami. i went to prison so you won't have to. >> congress don't want to close legal loopholes and keep criminals behind bars but i

will. >> mark, forget keeping them behind bars. what about promoting them right up to the main stage? what message do you think the rnc and trump campaign is sending by that embrace of recently freed inmate? >> well, i think it's clearly showing the two levels, the two systems of justice we have in america, where peter navarro is sent to a federal prison for defying a congressional subpoena, yet when democrats and the biden administration defy congressional subpoenas, the justice department looks away and doesn't do anything with it. and so it's just another example, something that if you're going to hold people accountable for defying congressional subpoenas, then it applies to both sides, not just the one side, and not the other. >> well, as you know, mark, this justice department just completed a successful prosecution of a democratic senator, the president's own son. it's not as if there is any evidence for a disparate political treatment. what is disparate is democrats are talking about getting bob

menendez out of their party. we have no reason to think at this juncture he would speak at the convention, and this rnc convention made a very dechoice, no? >> i guess there's not a comparison between peter navarro and bob menendez. what i'm talking about is why our members of the justice department defying legal congressional subpoenas from a house republican led investigation. they can do it and not go to jail, but when peter navarro defies a democrat-led investigation, he's got to go to jail. it's either all subpoenas are treated equal or we're not going to treat any of them. >> i have 30 seconds left. your thoughts on what you're expecting from donald trump's address tonight. >> i think he's going to highlight all of the main topics they have been focused on, monday, the economy. tuesday, the border, wednesday, foreign policy. i have seen reporting that he's not going to use the president's name in his speech tonight.

>> you have done this work inside the campaigns. you know what these big nights are like. appreciate you giving your perspective. >> good to be with you. >> we have claire mccaskill coming up, more jen and more joy. we're of course coveric the president of the united states, joe biden, and how he's responding to pressure as well as donald trump making his return to public life. his first speech since the assassination attempt. that's coming up tonight. upset stomach iberogast indigestion iberogast bloating iberogast thanks to a unique combination of herbs, iberogast helps relieve six digestive symptoms to help you feel better. six digestive symptoms. the power of nature. iberogast. - so this is pickleball? - pickle! ah, these guys are intense. with e*trade from morgan stanley, we're ready for whatever gets served up. dude, you gotta work on your trash talk. i'd rather work on saving for retirement. or college, since you like to get schooled.

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welcome back to our special coverage of the republican national convention. i'm joy reid along with my colleagues ari melber and jen psaki. the two big stories that we're following, the final night of the convention with donald trump speaking later tonight to accept his party's presidential nomination for the third time since 2016. and the ongoing drama surrounding president biden's hold on the democratic party nomination, as he is off the campaign trail recovering from covid. we begin with some of the hottest fashion trends at this convention. like the texas delegation. they bring cowboy hats every year. this year, we're seeing some republican delegates give another stylistic show of

support for their presidential nominee, donald trump. white bandages on their right ear. just like the one donald trump is wearing to cover the wound he received saturday, which we still know very little about. this is not the first time that delegates at a republican convention have used a bandage to send a message. but it's quite different from the one we saw 20 years ago, that managed to take away 2004 democratic nominee john kerry's advantage over incumbent president george w. bush at the height of the iraq war. namely, that then senator kerry had served in combat in vietnam as a swiftboat captain, while bush, whose father was a u.s. congressman in 1968, wound up serving stateside in the texas air national guard. a group called swiftboat veterans for truth bankrolled by a republican mega donor emerged to smear kerry's service record and the injuries that earned him

one of three purple hearts. the 2004 republican convention, some delegates wore band-ages with purple hearts on their faces to mock what they called a self-inflicted scratch kerry had sustained. it didn't matter it sold a lie about combat veteran kerry, amplifying a baseless charge that kerry was somehow dishonorable, while george w. bush sold himself as a war-time president, albeit one who conveniently avoided combat and the war that defined his generation. now, 20 years later, a similar kind of wholesale misrepresentation is taking place at this republican convention. a lie that donald trump and jd vance are working class heroes. you know, just a couple of populists looking out for the little guy rather than a failed new york real estate mogul grifting white working class voters in order to stay out of jail, and tech bro peter thiel acolyte who got famous for writing a memoir that's little more than a distrac about his own family and the apalachian

people he claims to be speaken for. according to republicans, union joe, who pushed through the largest infrastructure bill in history and walked through a picket line is an elite washington insider. as for donald trump, he's expected to give a more personal speech later tonight with a focus on trump personally highlights the great shift of the republican party in real time. the party of reagan/bush is now the parto of trump/vance. from hawks and tough guys to america first isolationists looking no further than who is speaking later tonight. top jd vance cheerleader and putin apologist tucker carlson. he's back in his own time slot next hour. joining us now is msnbc political analyst david jolly, former republican congressman who for some reason i cannot fathom is no longer affiliated with the party. one day we're going to find out

why. david jolly, you know, the old switcharoo is not new, but this is a doozy. give me one instance where donald trump or jd vance cares about the little guy. can you think of one? >> no, but what donald trump realized when he was shopping around for a political party from which to mount a run for the presidency is populism is a very powerful drug and saying you're fighting for the little man matters. i think they have fashioned some form of economic policy within what is essentially a cultural movement and a white culture movement. if there's any eeth esthat sounds republican, it's within this notion of equality of opportunity. what republicans always fail to realize is to advocate for equality of opportunity actually requires policy changes here in the united states. that you're not actually born with the equality of opportunity in the united states. it actually takes policies to change that. republicans kind of missed that

second part. and so i think as you see kind of the billionaire class and the vc class and the jd vance/donald trump class making this push, this real push and making progress in this push for white working class voters, it's not actually around the economic message as much as it is a cultural message about your ability to control your own life and control your own destiny. and i would also say we can't ignore that they really are speaking about the white american economy. >> yeah -- >> they really are. this is the white american economy they're speaking to. >> and white american economy for men. it's a man's world. you know, i think about the fact that richard nixon, his big push to try to win over white voters in the south was to say, hey, race. the government, the federal government is taking everything from you and giving it to the blacks. you know, ronald reagan had a sort of similar message for white working class people, it isn't about sort of creating economic opportunity for you.

it's taking it away from black people and saying they're stealing your money. this message has grown in intensity over the decades, but donald trump has kind of taken it to its apotheosis at this point. >> he just doubles and triples down on them. this idea of the white culture war, the white economic class, everybody else is coming for you. your way of life is now being held in suspense. that thread runs from the economy all the way to january 6th. because if your way of life is being taken from you, if it is under threat, if something is being stolen from you, which is the root of donald trump's message going back ten plus years, whether it's immigrants or elites or whatever the villain is, in this case donald trump is making, if it's being taken from you, you get to fight back. we saw it in butler, fight, fight, fight. we saw it on january 6th, go to the capitol with strength, not with weakness. we see it in the demonizing of democrats by donald trump, by jd

vance, and by republicans writ large. it's a very simple message. unfortunately in the united states today, our elections are decided by very small margins and it's enough to move the margins. >> butler was not january 6th. >> butler was an attempt to disrupt democracy by a bullet. we don't know the motive. >> right, so it's like justifying self defense. someone saying in the moment they want to defend themselves is different from january 6th. fight fight fight as a message that day made more sense. >> it's important to be clear with our words when we talk about butler and january 6th. here's what i would say the thread is. in each instance, you had someone trying to disrupt democracy through violence. in butler, it was clear. it was someone with a gun who was trying to take out a leading party nominee. on january 6th, it was actually hang mike pence, disrupt the u.s. senate through the use of violence to prevent democracy from transitioning to the

lawfully elected president. those threads are exactly similar. now, i'm not assigning blame one way or the other or creating equities where they should or shouldn't be. what i'm saying is this dangerous moment we're living in, the peril we're living in and the radical absurdity that somehow donald trump is going to be the unifying candidate to solve all this, donald trump is a criminally convicted fraudster. he was convicted in new york for fraud. he's facing trial now in the january 6th case for defrauding the american people. and the notion that somehow a candidate who has been convicted of fraud and is standing trial for fraud is going to be the person that unifies the american people is an absurdity. he tried to incite violence to disrupt democracy. that's what we saw in butler. >> january 6th was also about the anger and rage that you are seeing among a lot of white working class voters. i went back and did a worm hole of the way that joe biden got elected. he performed about the same as

hillary clinton with black voters. he underperformed hillary clinton with latino voters, men and women. you know who he overperformed with? white men. his superpower is he performed better with white men than any democrat had since really bill clinton. so he actually is competitive for white working class voters because he is a white working class guy. and his policies have been hugely beneficial for red state white working class folks. he put all those chips jobs in south carolina, north carolina, arkansas. they're getting jobs. they're actually gaining from him. this is something stephanie ruhle talks about a lot. what donald trump is promising to do is ratchet up terror which will make everything unaffordable, but he also is promising to take the department of justice and turn it into the national association for the advancement of white people, and stop having any sort of benefit from the federal government to protect black people, and he'll say, i'm going to protect you from the federal government helping black people. and somehow he's saying that's better than actually being able

to afford your life, because by the way, me and my hedge fund friends are going to keep ratcheting up rent and doing the things we were doing. >> i'm feeling upset comparing january 6th to last saturday because we don't know about the motor or enough about this guy. i think we have to be careful. >> i'm not comparing motives. what i'm comparing is trying to interrupt democracy. >> i think that's farther than what we know about what drove him to the point, but i wanted to ask you about something else, which is one of the arguments about that they're making that jd vance and donald trump are making that is appealing or they're trying to appeal to white working class voters is the america first argument. they're making this argument that ukraine doesn't matter. we should not engage. we're no longer the globalist party, which is not just a shift from reagan. it's a shift from romney, a shift from mccain. a shift from recent republican history. and as somebody who joined the republican party and ran as a republican, we don't talk about

that a lot, but while jd vance didn't mention ukraine in his speech last night, the foreign minister of russia had positive things to say about him yesterday. he said ukraine doesn't matter. do you think that matters in the party or what is the republican platform on this issues now? >> i don't think it matters because the transformation of the party is complete. and jd vance is a perfect example of that. donald trump doesn't need his mike pence, he doesn't need a marco rubio, a paul ryan. he can go with jd vance because the transformation is complete. the republican party has abandoned american exceptionalism and replaced it with american weakness. they suggest that assisting an ally against an aggressor or protecting freedom on the world stage is somehow setting aside our interests. it is exactly our interest. it's the promotion of american exceptionalism that we defend freedom on the world stage. this republican party doesn't.

it just doesn't. and we all know how donald trump would end the ukraine war. he will surrender to vladimir putin. >> territory. ukraine's territory. >> that's right. he'll abandon our allies. >> it's interesting because this all in a way does explain the obama to trump voter a little bit. i think the iraq war was a real sea change for both parties in that as somebody woo was deeply against that war as well, the idea that, you know, america spends unlimited amounts to wage war, and its regular folks, working class of all classes pay the price for that kind of military adventurism. i think it broke a lot of people in the republican party and the democratic party from this idea of neoliberalism that constantly wants war. it was an opportunity for both parties to pick up on it, but the populist wing of the republican party seized on it, and there are a lot of people who say we should be spending that money at home. it's not just trumpers who say that. >> here's what republicans get

wrong, and in defense of joe biden, no american troops have been committed to this war. it's always cheaper to defend american interests and america's liberty abroad than it is on our own shores. and joe biden got that right. >> and russia does not have our interests in mind. and if they win, we lose. and that is what vladimir putin's intention is, for us to lose and them to win. david jolly, always good to see you. coming up, we're three weeks -- i'm sorry, we're three weeks past the first presidential debate, and calls from democratic leadership in washington for president biden to exit the race appear to be escalating. we're back with more after the break.

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as republicans rally around their candidate for the fourth night of the rnc, a very different reality is playing out for the democratic party right now. as president biden faces growing pressure to withdraw from the race. nbc news is reporting that there is now a, quote, palpable sense that the ground has shifted from under biden. even among some of the president's most defiant internal backers who now believe the writing is on the wall. one person close to the president saying bluntly, wee close to the end. "the new york times" adds that

several people close to biden are saying today that they believe he has begun to accept the idea that he may not be able to win in november and may have to drop out of the race. it all comes after numerous reports that big names in the party are pressuring biden to step aside. senate majority leader chuck schumer reportedly told biden on saturday it would be best if he stepped down. cnn is reporter nancy pelosi told the president that polls show he cannot win. and according to "the washington post," even former president barack obama has told allies in recent days that his former vp's path to victory has greatly diminished. and he thinks the president needs to seriously consider the viability of his candidacy. a source close to president biden is aggressively pushing back on all of this, telling nbc news. quote, how did all of this work out for everyone in 2016? perhaps we should learn a few lessons from 2016. one of them is, polls are bs. just ask secretary clinton.

and two, maybe, just maybe joe biden is more in touch with actual americans than obama, pelosi, schumer. meow. joining me now is former democratic senator from missouri and msnbc political analyst claire mccaskill. so great to see you. i know jen had a question for you and i want to throw it to you because you're having a conversation i want to bring to the people. >> a really important part of this is senators and what the senate thinks and campaigns and what they think. it's not the only factor. it's important to restate, we know where the momentum is going in congress, with democratic leaders, democratic members, they clearly are moving in the direction of wanting the president to step out as the nominee. we don't know that president biden has made a decision to do that, and we don't know when he will do that, if he will do that, despite what they want. that being said, on these campaigns you won a lot of tough races in a tough state. what are they looking at? what data are they looking at? what are the discussions on these campaign teams?

help us understand or help our viewers understand what factors. they may love joe biden, but they're thinking about winning. what are those conversations? >> so, here's what, first, let me push back a little bit on that person close to biden. chuck schumer isn't going to joe biden to president biden with his -- >> the last quote? >> yeah, where maybe joe biden knows the voters better than chuck schumer and blah blah blah. chuck schumer is not going there as chuck schumer. chuck schumer is going to president biden as the leader of the democratic party in the united states senate. which is in the majority by a fingernail. this is a really tough map for senate democrats. the toughest in many, many years. and so all of these senators that are in these very tough states, what they did is they waited after the debate to give space and grace, hoping that

maybe nothing else would be necessary. clearly, that was not going to be the case. so they waited most of these campaigns, in fact, i would bet every single one of them probably waited as you know, jen, maybe seven to ten days. >> for polling. >> to start the polling. to let it soak in what it happened and then they went in the field. it was after they came back from the field that schumer had the data, and he had his caucus to represent. and i don't think the meeting with the biden campaign staff, with the democratic senators went well last week. i don't think -- i'm not saying it was unanimous, but it was very clear, i think, to the people that were representing biden in that meeting with the democratic senators that they didn't have a clear answer as to how he now overcame this deficit. what was he going to do and what could he do to overcome it. so chuck went and talked to him.

and so did nancy pelosi. and so did hakeem jeffries. and these aren't elite people -- these are people who represent hundreds of people who have run for office. they represent millions of voters in our party. they have a job to do here. they are supposed to do this. so they're only doing what they think is in the best interest of the values we all share. including joe biden. >> can i ask you this question? i have talked to some members today as well. and these are african american members who are getting tremendous pressure. i talked to a member who had, you know, sort of political pollster types and others that are representing people who want president biden to step aside, really pressuring them and trying to convince black members that they must get on board, because as you know, as everybody here knows, the cbc has not been on board at all. and the feeling that they were getting is that the pressure is not just for president biden to step aside but that it was coming with a side of, we don't

want kamala harris, and this was presented, i spoke to a couple members who were on a zoom, that they were being told that kamala harris' numbers are similar to biden and that the pressure is two-fold and this is coming from multiple members i have spoken with off the record about the fact that the pressure they're getting is not just about president biden. it's also about kamala harris. >> i have not spoken to a senator who has said anything -- >> not from senators. >> what i'm saying is my sources, i'm telling you, all say it's kamala. every single one of them. >> are you surprised -- this is what surprises me, the way you're so definitive, why do you think that the camp, the people that are going, as you said, to president biden and then are allowing their names to leak, are not allowing that to leak? because the fact that so many members that i'm talking to are of the very firm belief that to the point where 1400 african

american civil rights and political and get out the vote leaders put out a letter today, because they don't feel confident that this is not an anti-harris campaign. >> i just want to add to what claire said. i also haven't spoken to anyone who doesn't think it's going to be harris. >> then why are so many members receiving what they're saying is pressure to also set her aside as well? they're not getting that from nowhere and they're unanimous, the ones i'm talking to. >> i can't tell you where that's coming from but i can tell you that is not a held belief by the donors i have talked to. i have talked to a bunch of big donors. i talked to a whole bunch of united states senators. everyone, in fact, i had three united states senators say to me today, she's ready. we're excited. this is going to be terrific. >> why are they not allowing that to come out? >> i think they're all trying to be respectful of joe biden at this point. i think everybody feels a lot of pain. he's their friend.

many of them served with him for a long, long time. this is painful. it's painful for the biden family. it's painful for his friends and colleagues. so i think they're not wanting to go, go kamala, until joe biden has said it's not me. >> and there's a decision process to what is fundamentally the most precarious, rare, difficult, intraparty lobbying campaign in the history of presidential politics. no president has ever dropped out this late in the race. these are extraordinary times. as we all know in different ways. one thing i have observed, we're all talking to people, we have all been around it in different ways. one thing i observed is a lot of people have tried to respectfully, diplomatically get president biden to a place where not only does he see that he's currently on a trajectory to lose, which was already the view of the campaign going into the debate. they negotiated the earliest

ever presidential debate because they thought that they were on a bad trajectory and they wanted to shake it up. well, as you know, claire and friends, they shook it up. there was a reaction to the debate, but not the one they hoped for. so they went from a view of on a trajectory to lose to now if you quote the allies around barack obama and i'm curious because we haven't hit that point, whether you think that reporting is accurate, that barack obama is saying it's now looking like irreversibly on that trajectory. that's different than a random person posting online or talking at the bar. these are -- barack obama and joe biden know a lot about putting together winning coalitions. they also know what it looks like when it's too late. picking up on this conversational point, claire, there's a real question over whether that process has moved joe biden to say, he can't reverse this. and then if you care about the party and the country, what do you do? then it's a step too of who can and this question of who else.

what do you think about that sort of decision tree? >> yeah, i think that first of all, call me skeptical that barack obama is weighing in on this. >> i have always called you senator mccaskill, but i'll call you skeptical. >> call me skeptical. you know, president obama is incredibly careful about when he talks and how he talks and who he talks to. i find it hard to believe that he is out here jawing with people, saying oh, i don't think he has a path to win. >> you don't buy "the washington post" story, period? >> i'm just skeptical of it. and here's why. i think that president obama is going to be more focused on being seen as an honest counsel and sounding board for joe biden. and he can't be that if he's out there -- you know, as you know, everybody has been doing that for two weeks now.

so and the other thing i would say, they polled that i forgot to mention that i think is important. for the people in the battleground states where biden has to win and we have democratic senate candidates, they're doing okay now, but when they polled, would it impact your decision to vote for a senate candidate x if they were continuing to say joe biden was capable of serving for another 4 1/2 years? and it actually polled that it was going to hurt these candidates, so they're in this horrible position. you know, biden is going to be in their states every ten minutes because he has to win, especially michigan, wisconsin, and pennsylvania. how do those candidates handle that without losing the leads they have right now, for many of them is within the margin of error. >> can i add an obama thing? claire is friends with him, i worked with him for ten years. i couldn't agree more with

claire. one, he holds his cards close to his chest. for anyone who had an obama tracker, i will tell you a couple things. he doesn't care if there are news stories saying where is he? he's looking at how to be the unifier for whatever the final moment is. he also reads polls. he also understands where the trajectory is here, but i would be surprised if we heard from him, speaking out loud, before he gives a speech at the convention. he doesn't just wax poetic to people. i was skeptical. >> don't have a dog in this fight, but he's also the person who called around when it was time to close ranks for biden. he called candidates. he urged people's timeline, which is not inconsistent with what you're saying, and he's following this closely. and if the reporting is right, when george clooney and others who matter in a certain way, maybe matter too much to people, when those types said we're going to do this public push, he didn't disagree. so take a double negative for what you will.

>> i think the important thing to know and understand is he doesn't see that as his role as a former president. people can disagree with that. they can not like that, and that's fine. but in 2020, he didn't weigh in and endorse joe biden early in the process. this is -- he is a former president. yes, he is the president when joe biden was the vice president, but i think he sees his role not as that. so when george clooney says to him, i'm going to write an op-ed, i wasn't there, i wish i was, i think he probably said, do what you want. >> again, we're talking this out so everyone can listen and make up their own mind. the only nuance to that is 2020 primary barack obama was more forcefully pro-joe biden than 2024 barack obama right now. call that neutral if you want. but a lot of people would love to have 2020 joe biden because he beat trump, and joe biden would like to have 2020 barack obama. >> i think that's true, but it's also -- it's moving in the direction of kamala harris. i think for president obama, it's like, how can i play a role

if that's where it's going to land add the right moment? that is not waxing poetic with a lot of people. that's why i'm a little skeptical. >> i thought she was skeptical. >> we're both skeptical. >> they're both named skeptical. like george foreman's kids. >> skeptical one and two. >> we're going to keep people a bit skeptical. senator mccaskill anlt going nowhere. up next, immigration is a top line priority at this week's republican convention with attendees gleefully waving mass deportation now signs. that's charming. and breaking out into send them back chants, very unifying. when we return, we'll fact check their claims and explain how this right-wing fever dream would be a nightmare for america. stay right there. your gut is like a garden growing both good bacteria and bad. that balance is key to a healthy gut environment. benefiber's plant-based prebiotic fiber gently nourishes the good bacteria,

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as we head into the final night of the republican national convention, it might be good to revisit just a few of the factual inaccuracies that donald trump's running mate senator jd vance told in his acceptance speech just last night. >> it's about the energy worker in pennsylvania and ohio who doesn't understand why joe biden is willing to buy energy from tin pot dictators across the world when he could buy it from his own citizens right here in our own country. >> for those of you watching at home who think that doesn't

sound quite rite, that's because it's not. under the biden administration, the united states is producing more oil than any country ever has, in fact, the nation set a record for crude production in 2023. outpacing what any country produced that year. you may not like that, but that is a fact. then vance said this about trump's presidency. >> he created the greatest economy in history for workers. >> also not true. during trump's presidency, the unemployment rate fell to 50-year record lows but then covid happened. it's president biden who has matched and exceeded those records. additionally, wage growth also did not set records under trump. adjusted for inflation, wages began rising in the obama years and kept increasing under trump. here's another thing my next guest will help us unpack. >> the democrats flooded this country with millions of illegal aliens. so citizens had to compete with people who shouldn't even be

here for precious housing. >> that's quite a whopper. joining me now is stphanie ruhle s, host of the 11th hour, and a debunker, fact deliverer of all policies. okay, so stephanie, let's start with that last one. this is kind of a favorite whopper that we hear from republican talking points frequently. give us the actual facts. >> okay, well, let's start with this idea that immigrants are taking your jobs. we have an immigration problem. we have an illegal immigration problem in this country for years and years. we have needed comprehensive immigration reform and we haven't gotten it. one of the main groups asking for it is the business community because we have a labor shortage. and this notion that immigrants are stealing american jobs is simply not true. now, if you're worried about the economy, donald trump's plan of mass deportation is only going to hurt our economy. because if you take all of these

people out of the country, a, they're no longer going to be contributing spending here, and that's going to shrink our economy, and we're going to be further short on labor. we know that under the biden administration, $2 trillion in infrastructure spending is happening. we need a labor force. but what's most interesting about that point that jd vance was making, it was really a broader point about the housing crisis. the bubble that popped in 2008. and he blamed, you know, wall street robber barrens, the subprime crisis and how it threw people from homes, destroyed small businesses. he's not wrong. here's what's wrong. donald trump is a-okay with that business. when he was in office, he reopened predatory lending. he loves payday lenders. steve mnuchin became a very wealthy man because of the subprime crisis. just like big donors and attendees in this place, like john paulson, who became a billionaire through subprime and he's one of trump's biggest donors who raised $45 million

for him back in april. so for me, the takeaway that i'm scratching my head on, there are all sorts of policies that jd vance and donald trump represent. like extending the corporate tax cut, jd vance's anti-supporting ukraine, overturning roe v. wade was their crowning achievement, but they're not talking about any of those things. jd vance last night and donald trump tonight is going to push this pro-worker populist message, and it's amazing because in the state of ohio, there is a senator who has had a populist message who has worked for the working man and woman for years. and it is sherrod brown. if you're talking about unions, you're the head of the teamsters here the other night, which is amazing that donald trump is potentially getting their vote, but you didn't see a lot of people in the crowd cheering him on because the republican platform is not pro-union. so for me, my big takeaway is just this giant disconnect. >> yeah, i mean, to your point, stephanie, and you talk about this often on your show, you educate all of us on your show

about this. the gop messaging is out of whack. this is the awkwardness for them, right? it's out of whack with what their actual policies are. you mentioned housing, we talked about economic data. in terms of things that impact people a great deal out there, what else are we missing and what should people be watching for in the speech tonight and know what the actual facts are? >> again, this goes back to, is donald trump going to have this message of unity? we keep hearing that. there's all this anonymous reporting from inside the campaign that he's lowering the temperature and the tone. i have yet to see that here. look at the signs people are carrying. but to me, what's going to be the interesting takeaway after this is how are democrats going to handle it? because as i have said, i'm fact checking my little head off with all of the falsehoods they're pushing on the stage, but is there going to be a democrat, is the biden campaign going to educate the american people and let them know that our borders are not open, that our economy is improving, that all of the policies that he has put forth

over the last four years have been to help america, because right now, donald trump, who is a very effective communicator, a better communicator than joe biden, is stealing his lines when joe biden has the policies and the work. >> stephanie ruhle, can't fact check on her own. that's one of my big takeaways. everyone send out the fact checks. we'll talk to you more later this evening. we have to take a quick break. after that, we'll talk about the rnc's bro atmosphere personifies. we'll talk to michael steele as well as the rnc enters its final night. after careful review of medical guidance and research on pain relief, my recommendation is simple:

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[tv turns on] the controversial and extreme conservative plan for the presidency, known as project 2025. [static] of an executive with unprecedented power. [static continues] crushing the independence of the fbi and the doj. the mass firings of civil servants. and shutting down climate change initiatives. this is a culture war. i'm joe biden and i approve this message.

welcome back. we have a lot to talk about. you're looking at views of this convention. the final night of the rnc in milwaukee. they often do a little dabbling in culture and security. the black eyed peas have played a couple conventions. sometimes it stumbled like clint eastwood. that's all i'm going to say about that. republicans tonight are doing something that goes beyond just the typical culture or celebrity dabble. they're using some figures a little outside of politics to really play with the notion of masculinity in american life. there's ufc president dana white, a pro wrestler, hulk

hogan, and a performance by someone who is not actually big in music right now, no disrespect, but not on the charts right now, but plays into a different appeal they want to make, a name you might know, kid rock. so as we look at this aspect, we still have former senator mccaskill with us, our panel, jen, joy, myself, and michael steele joins the conversation. a former rnc chair, and just for the record, a male. >> dude, i'm working -- thank you, claire. thank you. i'm working on that butch thing. >> so here's the opening question. i said this as fairly as possible. both parties have dabbled with culture, when you do that, look, there's a world where the clint eastwood both sides are dabbling with culture. it could've gone well, it just didn't. here we see multiple, very certain type of mail, performative masculinity figures coming out on the final type

and then trump, what do you see? >> there have been a number of republicans, particularly individuals that the senator would know from her days in the senate to think that they are so macho, like josh hawley and he has this real masculine thing. >> i'm sorry. >> i know, right and the next image we have of him is running away from the threat. so there is this outside view of the gop as this butch, masculine, male-dominated thing and it is a distortion which is why to some extent, joy, you and i have had this conversation. certain african american and hispanic men, that appeals to them. it gives them that machismo. behind that is, i think, a lot of insecurity and that plays out politically in how we address complicated issues that

touch on things that impact women. children. families and community. and you don't translate it that well or that easily because you have already created this image. when it is required that you deal with the crisis of gun violence in schools or you deal with the crisis of women now being told that they do not have a choice on the decisions they make relative to their own health and their body, their response is what you hear from someone like j.d. vance, which is, well, you know, of course. a woman, in a violent situation, she just has to live with that. that's okay. because they don't know how to translate this built-up, self- image of being the macho, macho man into something much more realistic. >> it is interesting because we

talked about this during the break. in argentina that's how it went, that you had this coalition and not to be cruel, but it was described as the sort of incel election. it went along with policies like banning abortion and birth control ended all kind of goes together that you have seen this election before. using the same thing in hungary. it is rooted in returning white christian men, but also white adjacent men. blackmun, brown men who are wide adjacent, in terms of trying to also be in that dominant position in society and then you have women who are willing to go along with that. there are a certain number of women who are willing for that sort of thing. so what you see on the stage -- what is interesting is j.d. vance who promotes the sort of thing. he says there should be no divorce and says women and

violent situations should stay. he did not say that in his speech yesterday. there was no culture war stuff involving men and women because they know it is deeply unpopular. there you go, here he is. donald trump taking the stage. >> we can mention as we said on other nights -- sorry? >> go. >> this is unusual. something we don't usually see at conventions where you have the early arrival. they are making the point again as he returns to public life after the events of the weekend to continue to showcase these moments and have him sort of set up on that proverbial sofa throne and watches convention. tonight of course more dramatic for those delegates awaiting the speech. >> the iron throne is the only thing missing and i will note again that this has not been a highly rated convention. it is obviously summer, so we are in the summer ratings doldrums. it has not rated gangbusters at all and there is a sense donald

trump is trying to juice the ratings by being there every night with his ostentatious band-aid on his ear which is repeated by people in the audience. they play things like his favorite ymca, one of the songs they love to play. they also played yesterday when he walked on, it's a man's world. >> by the way, speaking of ratings, it is important to note that donald trump's original vice presidential selection in 2016 had 5 million more people watch his speech than the replacement vp got last night. >> we should note again that he's not there because they tried to hang that guy. >> and i also say as we are watching the box, right behind him you have senator ted cruz. we have discussed sort of that evolution and played some of the old sound. ted cruz said vote your conscience in objection to donald trump -- so what a

difference eight years makes. i don't have the name handy of the gentleman there, but showing up in a t-shirt next to a former president. >> it is macho. very macho. >> you have made this point and i want to amplify it a bit because what is so ironic about the sort of macho man theme here is that in the republican party there is only allowed to be one macho man, donald trump. he emasculate every other man around him. you have ted cruz who is supposed to be a tough guy, but he also took the need to trump and allowed him to say his wife was ugly. you had marco rubio who tried to make small hand jokes about him. he took the knee. every other suppose it macho man in the party has become subservient to donald trump and the most opposite of macho you could be, so it is one macho man and everyone else taking the knee. >> can i say one thing about what strikes me with this choice to have him sitting

there? he's been sitting there to your point the last couple of nights and of course that means every network, msnbc and others have camera footage of him watching other speeches. i would say the majority of the time, i don't know what's going on in his head, he does not look that interested in the speeches and what is being said. >> because he is not. >> it is an interesting choice to make, when people are doing speeches leading up to his own speech, they will be sitting there for the camera. >> he looked particularly bored during his son speech. let's find out what people are thinking in the crowd. let's bring in jacob soboroff, covering the rnc for us in milwaukee this evening. what have you got? give us some color and flavor, jacob. >> reporter: i am below former president trump's box right now. i heard what you are saying. you can see who else is in the box. that is jason albion, country music superstar in the t-shirt next to former president trump making the bold fashion choice to sit next to the president.

behind him it is not only senator ted cruz, but james lankford. to piggyback on your point about folks who were once scorned by trump showing up in his box, james lankford most recently was known as a man who negotiated this bipartisan border bill. it would've been one of the most restrictive border bills in american history actually, so immigration advocates were staunchly opposed to it and some democrats. there were some democrats who met him in the middle, like james lankford, sitting directly behind ted cruz. it was donald trump himself who torpedoed that bill according to reports by calling up other republicans and telling them to vote against that bill associated by senator langford. it doesn't matter to senator langford. he showed up along with ted cruz and other folks who at one point were not in the best graces of president trump to be here tonight. >> jacob soboroff, have you talked to any interesting folks

tonight? we have seen that what gets the crowd going is anything anti- immigration. we did not hear a lot of sort of testosterone from j.d. vance yesterday, but that seems like it is what the crowd wants to hear. >> reporter: it was interesting. the biggest ovation tonight was from an african american pastor from detroit who came here in support of former president trump and went completely off script. for 5 to 10 minutes he spoke about president trump coming to detroit. before him, mike pompeo. you could hear a pin drop when mike pompeo was talking in this room. people were not interested. they might've been interested, but they were not on their feet, they were not clapping, they were not excited. it is not the moderated tone that people in this arena tonight or over the course of the last three nights have been interested in and are excited about. guys. >> we will see if they enjoy kid rock. they will probably not know any of his lyrics anymore.

they apparently enjoyed amber rose yesterday. thank you very much, jacob. enjoy and have fun. we will come back to you later. claire mccaskill and michael steele, thank you both. that does it for us, but do not go anywhere. our special coverage continues next with chris hayes and alex wagner. i'm here with my friend and colleague, chris hayes. tonight we will hear from the candidate himself as donald trump officially accepts the republican nomination for president for the third time. we are also closely following the situation wa